Where is the ADULT aspect of ASA? [Archive]

ZorBrak

07-28-2002, 12:28 PM

Zapages

07-28-2002, 12:43 PM

Z Gundam should I say more...

Leaping Larry Jojo

07-28-2002, 01:51 PM

Anime shows that have an "adult" aspect to them:

Master Keaton
Patlabor
Noir
Legend of Black Heaven
Blue Gender

Berserk is borderline adult. It's more of an upper teen category kind of anime, IMO. Sure, it has blood, it has guts, sex, etc,. But it has a distinct sophomoric feel to it.

KingKoopa

07-28-2002, 01:57 PM

The target demographic is 18-34. Since it'd be tough to find anime for a 34-year-old, they find anime for an 18-year-old instead.

livingfruitvirus

07-28-2002, 02:13 PM

"Outlaw Star" and "Big O" also have adult aspect.

JDuncan

07-28-2002, 02:24 PM

By WB you mean the company, not the network, right?
Oh, and if it's anime selection time, I think Rurouni Kenshin would be a great addition to the lineup. It is liscensed by a small studio and would not require many edits. Its mature enough to appeal to adults, and has some great fights too. There aren't any other sword-fighting anime on ASA, so it wouldn't be repeititous, either.

Killtacular

07-28-2002, 02:51 PM

It's obvious that at the moment ASA is seriously lacking the ADULT aspect, I mean it's practically just late night Toonami as of now. Although its not going to happen DBZ shouldn't ever have even have been rumored to be coming to the block, that in itself is evident that the block isn't Adult enough.

Cartoon Network didn't start that stupid rumor. An idiot did. So don't use that as a claim or evidence, because it doesn't qualify as either.

Sure, Cowboy Bebop is a great one for the line up, but Yu Yu Hakusho? I mean Yu Yu isn't a bad show or anything but it's clearly not too adult...sure they say damn and hell.... whooptydoo! (what does it all mean Basil?) but that doesn't make it adult in my book. I feel the best course of action for CN is to create a more teen content filled Toonami for late night weekdays and show Gundam, Yuyu, and everything else on that...AND THEN make a REAL ASA.

There's no point to that. Toonami already is for teens and tweens. They should have more programming for teens only, but it hasn't really been proven that teens are a strong enough audience.. you think MTV gets good ratings at all? Yeah right. The only time is during The Osbornes, because there are more than just teens watching.

ASA needs more grit, more adult themes, and more depth. Currently there aren't too many animated shows to be looked at as candidates, most are either too child-like or too mature for a basic cable channel; though there are a few, especially in the anime feild. Berserk and Blue Gender are both shows that should be considered candidates, but I am seeing serious lack in US animation that qualifies (maybe Spawn but it would take alot of editing)....

That's because a lot of action shows suck. Regardless of their origin. Lots of action anime and action American animation suck.. it's no different than any other genre..

that's where I have an idea. If you look at stats I would say it's a safe bet more adults tend to catch ASC as opposed to ASA.The reason? ASC has a more unique edge, new shows = new viewers and higher ratings. I am aware that WB gets away with this for reasons that most of these shows are low budget. One can assume ATHF and it's bretheren are all pretty cheap to produce in comparison to most other shows.
But I think there lies potential within ASA that is not being used.
I think WB itself should start a new trend of US adult animation, starting with a new Batman... It wouldn't be tied to the other animated DC shows, and it would be much darker and grittier.... more like Spawn sans all the alley brooding.

Can't be done. Batman is associated with ALL AGES. Have a gritty Batman series and kids will definitely watch it, much like a bunch of kids are definitely going to see Batman Vs. Superman when it hits theaters.

this is just an example of what could be done, and I am sure it would cost some pretty pennies but the point is if it can deliver goods, it can turn a nice profit and possibly even exceed the currently high ratings ASC has over ASA....exponentially. Once they have created at least one presentable new show, they pitch it one night on ASC and then as it comes to more adult's attentions, more will tune in. Most of the ASC veiwers would start watching ASA and this would as well generate a new view of animation in the US as a serious medium for adult drama.

I have a serious problem with ASA crossing over with ASC. The comedy block is for comedy. Commercials, sure. But no airtime.

What I am proposing is a very long shot but if WB takes the measures I have described it could work out very well for them....

As if WB wants to do anything with CN again.

anyone else have any suggesions as to what currently existing shows should replace the current teenish line up? or what shows could be created ?

First of all, you need to stop looking at the present. You nor anyone else knows what Williams Street is planning for ASA, but considering Inu-Yasha and Big O 2 are unconfirmed but coming, you can be sure that there will be more mature programming and ORIGINAL EXCLUSIVE CONTENT.

I think people need to stop *****ing and just be patient. Williams Street isn't going to put any more Toonami material on ASA, nor will they allow any shows on ASA that would fit better on Toonami.

Zero Angel

07-28-2002, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson

Can't be done. Batman is associated with ALL AGES. Have a gritty Batman series and kids will definitely watch it, much like a bunch of kids are definitely going to see Batman Vs. Superman when it hits theaters.

well i must say this much to you...Batman is not just associated with kids...much like TMNT is not associated with just kids. look to the Batman movies for this one. how dark and gritty were they? very. did they follow alot of the comic material in doing the first two films? hells yes. much like the TMNT stuff we are going to be seeing very very soon. the new movie that is being done by John Woo...it is going to be very close to the comics. it is going to be dark, violent, and very moody. is the name TMNT going to grab the kids and make them want to see it...yes. how long are parents going to allow their kids to go and watch it after they realize it is incredibly different from the first movies and the tv series...not for to much longer.

just to add a few more cents worth of commentary on this conversation besides that one comment.

i feel that there are quite a few things that could be grabbed for ASA that would be adult...a few of them have been named...except for the current way editing is done...Berserk will have to be a canned idea...the last 3 episodes show us that. but Kenshin would be a decent addition to ASA as would Trigun and Blue Gender.

just my two cents.

Jimmy Kustes

07-28-2002, 03:36 PM

Yep, they could make a Japanese Batman? Like a Bat-Manga. It's my idea! Quite monitering my brain!

What I would like to see the most is Captain America or the X-Men villian Magneto have their own shows on ASA. Why? Magneto can use his magnetic field to grind with his feet and Captain America can use his his shield as a skateboard! W00t!

Of course, I would like to see some American action cartoons that aren't based on superheroes. Samurai Jack is a good start, but we need more.

dbfchristopher

07-28-2002, 04:10 PM

I heard that there might also be a new batman movie based on the Frank Miller comic Batman: Year One. So far the writer/director is supposed to be Darren Aronofsky (Pi, Requiem for a Dream) and you can bet that it isn't going to be for kids!

rmarti3926

07-28-2002, 04:23 PM

They should have gotten Trigun when they have the chance!

And I like to make some serious suggections for ASA:

Lupin III

A less editied Outlaw Star (including the missing Hot Springs Ep.)

JetMaster5

07-28-2002, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by rmarti3926
They should have gotten Trigun when they have the chance!

They're getting Trigun. CN said that they're aware of the demand.

And I like to make some serious suggections for ASA:

A less editied Outlaw Star (including the missing Hot Springs Ep.)

Not gonna happen. Once Toonami have wasted their money on cutting up Outlaw Star to air on Toonami, they're not gonna go back and waste their money to fix Outlaw Star to air on Adult Swim.

KingKoopa

07-28-2002, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by jetwing5

They're getting Trigun. CN said that they're aware of the demand.

[B]

Not gonna happen. Once Toonami have wasted their money on cutting up Outlaw Star to air on Toonami, they're not gonna go back and waste their money to fix Outlaw Star to air on Adult Swim. They're not "getting" Trigun. They know people want it, and they'll likely pick it up, but they've expressed zero interest in getting it.

You're right about OLS, though. They won't re-edit it.

But, the "Batman=kids" seems flawed, as many have come to the conclusion "Brak=kids", and that didn't stop anyone.

Killtacular

07-28-2002, 05:13 PM

God, did I say Batman was "for kids?"

I said Batman was for ALL AGES. It's a name that both kids and adults are familiar with, and they'll watch and enjoy any rendition.

ALL AGES is not "for kids”. The reason they can get away with gritty movies is because movie theaters enforce age rules for movies, and the theaters have no control over the content in the movie, whereas TV companies not only enforce age rules for TV shows, but DO have control over the content of their shows as well.

And kids didn’t avoid the live-action Batman movies either.. they watched them for the same reason they watched the Terminator movies (and if you never saw a Terminator movie when you were a kid, you have much to be shameful for).

ZorBrak

07-28-2002, 05:24 PM

<<By WB you mean the company, not the network, right?>>
Yes.

Originally posted by Matt Wilson

Cartoon Network didn't start that stupid rumor. An idiot did. So don't use that as a claim or evidence, because it doesn't qualify as either.

I never said they did, but if it's possible for someone to even start a rumor like this, it shows that the block isn't adult enough.

Originally posted by Matt Wilson

There's no point to that. Toonami already is for teens and tweens. They should have more programming for teens only, but it hasn't really been proven that teens are a strong enough audience.. you think MTV gets good ratings at all? Yeah right. The only time is during The Osbornes, because there are more than just teens watching.

Well I didn't mean teens only I just meant that the lighter stuff that appeals to say ages 7-14 should have not been put on ASA, regardless of if any more is being added or not, if they put these in a new block I was presuming more than just teens would be watching anyway. And I know MTV doesn't get high ratings...'cuz it sucks. :P

Originally posted by Matt Wilson

That's because a lot of action shows suck. Regardless of their origin. Lots of action anime and action American animation suck.. it's no different than any other genre..

Yes I know. That's why I said WB animation or whoever should get into the fray and try to make some better action animation, they really don't make very many with adult themes to them. Maybe if they made some shows... some would suck...but I'm sure some would not thus giving us more shows to put on ASA.

Originally posted by Matt Wilson

Can't be done. Batman is associated with ALL AGES. Have a gritty Batman series and kids will definitely watch it, much like a bunch of kids are definitely going to see Batman Vs. Superman when it hits theaters.

As if little kids don't watch Adult Swim now....
plus, just becuase kids may try to watch it...doesn't mean they can't do the show. They have disclaimers and the kids have parents, if the parents don't mind then who gives a rat's ass?
If the parents truly care they'll stop them.

Originally posted by Matt Wilson

I have a serious problem with ASA crossing over with ASC. The comedy block is for comedy. Commercials, sure. But no airtime.

Ok, that's fine, I can see your point on that I was only suggesting ways to gain audience, they could show ads for it, or show it after the ASC block, either tactic would almost definately result in a veiwer increase.

Originally posted by Matt Wilson

As if WB wants to do anything with CN again.

Yeah use their animation departments to produce TV shows for CN....

Originally posted by Matt Wilson

First of all, you need to stop looking at the present. You nor anyone else knows what Williams Street is planning for ASA, but considering Inu-Yasha and Big O 2 are unconfirmed but coming, you can be sure that there will be more mature programming and ORIGINAL EXCLUSIVE CONTENT.
I think people need to stop *****ing and just be patient. Williams Street isn't going to put any more Toonami material on ASA, nor will they allow any shows on ASA that would fit better on Toonami.

There was absolutely no need to bash me for making suggestions and sharing ideas and thoughts. I am sure they will bring more adult content in the future, I was merely suggesting possible solutions. True I don't know what WS is planning, who cares? I was voicing my opinions and sharing ideas more than I was complaining.

Killtacular

07-28-2002, 05:38 PM

I never said they did, but if it's possible for someone to even start a rumor like this, it shows that the block isn't adult enough.

What?!

That’s ridiculous logic.

Example:
Comedy Central may or may not be getting Barney and Friends. HA HA HA HA!! NOW IT’S OBVIOUSLY A KIDS NETWORK!

Does that make any sense to you?

Well I didn't mean teens only I just meant that the lighter stuff that appeals to say ages 7-14 should have not been put on ASA, regardless of if any more is being added or not,

Did you even read my last paragraph? I just said that stuff targetted to those age groups aren’t be allowed onto ASA.

Yeah use their animation departments to produce TV shows for CN....

WB has already found CN unprofitable twice. Outside of the Justice League and Baby Looney Tunes cartoons, WB really doesn’t want to have anything to do with CN..except maybe promotion for WB.

There was absolutely no need to bash me for making suggestions and sharing ideas and thoughts.

I wasn’t bashing you, nor was I bashing people. But some people ARE making unsubstantied assumptions about what Adult Swim Action is about, and complaining as a result, and I think that kind of talk is unneeded.

Because Adult Swim Action is NOT “late-night Toonami.” Williams Street is working hard to make sure that there are concrete and tangible differences between the two blocks. They know what ASA is about. It’s action animation for adults. They’ll be picking shows that are skewed to adults and not kids. This isn’t opinion, this is FACT. Their acquisitions are top-secret and noone is allowed to hear what it is they’ve got yet.

So I’m going to hold my ground on the point that you’ll just have to wait and see what Williams Street has planned for the coming year before going on a rabbel-fest. Sure this lineup isn’t great, but the stuff that’s on it after 12 am isn’t even going to stay on there for long(except perhaps MSG). And there won’t be any new programming aimed at teenagers, I assure you.

I wouldn’t really consider YYH a teenager show either.. it’s more aimed at college kids.

ZorBrak

07-28-2002, 05:58 PM

<<What?!

That’s ridiculous logic.

Example:
Comedy Central may or may not be getting Barney and Friends. HA HA HA HA!! NOW IT’S OBVIOUSLY A KIDS NETWORK!

Does that make any sense to you?>>

The way your blowing my statements out of proportion is what is RIDICULOUS. And yeah some idiot started the rumor, and yeah it's a dumb rumor, rumors don't come from the source, CONFIRMATIONS come from source. But DBZ is a popular show, already on the same damn network as ASA, it's an action show, and it's obviously animated. TRUE this rumor should never ever started and it was ridiculous in itself! BUT the fact that it did start was becuase of the above facts if ASA was less Gundam/Pilot Candidatish IT WOULDN'T HAVE EVER STARTED BUT IT DID. This only proves ASA is not mature enough, yes we all know it, CN knows it, WS knows it, and I KNOW they are working on it, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD WAS TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS. REGARDLESS This rumor actually has a few legs to stand on whereas you would never see Barney on CC, IT'S NOT EVEN FREAKING COMEDY DBZ IS ACTION, AND IS ANIMATED. Why don't you go insult the person who first said the rumor instead of trying to insult my intelligence?

Killtacular

07-28-2002, 06:19 PM

The way your blowing my statements out of proportion is what is RIDICULOUS.

The feeling is mutual. I’m not trying to start some sort of flame war.

And yeah some idiot started the rumor, and yeah it's a dumb rumor, rumors don't come from the source, CONFIRMATIONS come from source. But DBZ is a popular show, already on the same damn network as ASA, it's an action show, and it's obviously animated. TRUE this rumor should never ever started and it was ridiculous in itself! BUT the fact that it did start was becuase of the above facts if ASA was less Gundam/Pilot Candidatish IT WOULDN'T HAVE EVER STARTED BUT IT DID.

That has nothing to do with anything.

The reason the rumors like that get started is because ASA EXISTS.

PERIOD.

When people hear of a block for adult animation, of COURSE they’ll think up any rumor they possibly can to see their favorite show given proper treatment. I’m sure a lot of DBZ fans want to see their anime uncut. It has nothing to do with Gundam or Pilot Candidate. It’s simply because of Adult Swim being a home for anime that’s as close to uncensored as humanly possible.

It’s the same reason why you see posts about Invader Zim or Sailor Moon or Gundam Wing on Adult Swim. People simply want to see an uncut version of WHATEVER, regardless of what age group it’s for. And, unfortunately, some of the distributors are thinking that way too.

IT'S NOT EVEN FREAKING COMEDY DBZ IS ACTION, AND IS ANIMATED. Why don't you go insult the person who first said the rumor instead of trying to insult my intelligence?

I think DBZ is more comedy than action, since a lot of the enemies are made fun of as well as the heroes. There’s a lot more goofiness. Not as much as Dragonball, but I could hardly consider DBZ a serious action show.

Jimmy Kustes

07-28-2002, 06:25 PM

Williams Street take notes: Captain America with a skateboard shield. All I'm saying is think about it....and pay me royalties...

Sheamon

07-28-2002, 11:01 PM

I never said they did, but if it's possible for someone to even start a rumor like this, it shows that the block isn't adult enough.

Alright, so let me see if I get what you're saying. Since Adult Swim Action has aired animation targetted for a younger crowd (OS, Tenchi, PC, YYH) that alone is what brought up the so called 'rumors' of something like DBZ coming to the block? So logic would state that it works the other way around, correct? The same thing can be said about Toonami, right? So why have we heard ridiculous things about Eva, or Bebop back in the days before ASA, or Trigun, etc...? Cause Toonami's never shown stuff targetted towards an adult crowd.

...these rumors are made by idiots who don't know much about ASA. As simple as that. Taking it too seriously is a waste of time.

I personally agree that the show is focused too much towards a younger crowd with everything on there excluding Bebop, but I also have fully excepted unlike others that they're in uncharted territory on the network. You're not gonna go from a kiddie channel to a block consisting of Bebop/Eva/Trigun/Perfect Blue/Kite, etc... overnight. Give ASA time, I'm confident that 'Adult Swim' will be an acceptable name eventually. And if you don't like it, go out and do the unthinkable, something I've been doing for years; go out and buy the uncut adult anime you want to see yourself.

iAmVincent

07-28-2002, 11:36 PM

dbz wouldnt last long on asa even if it was uncut. sure its funny here and there, but the whole series is too drawn out and dull. half the time they show closeups of everyones face, which is stupid. if they wouldnt have done that the show would have probably been 10 episodes ^_^

anyways, from the trigun episodes ive seen, it is a good show, but not too adult, yet not childish enough for toonami. it would still be nice on asa though since its a good show.

yyh may be a pretty good show, but with a few, and i mean very few edits, they could easily put that on toonami.

hopefully all the tvy7 shows will vanish from asa soon and they can put on a few better action/anime shows

thats my 2 cents worth...

Leaping Larry Jojo

07-28-2002, 11:56 PM

Why don't they make a Teenage Swim? I mean, the problem here is that many of the anime shows airing on Adult Swim don't truly target or appeal to adults, but on the other hand Toonami is sort of a pre-teen block that must cater to the censorship standards of daytime animation.

With a Teenage Swim, you can shuttle some of the "doesn't fit on Toonami, doesn't fit on Adult Swim" shows onto this block. With this block, you can have your Triguns and your Love Hinas (sorry about that Sheamon! Just an example...) and your Maison Ikkoku and Orange Roads and Gatekeepers on this block. Kind of like an animated version of the typical WB youth block--Angel, the formerly WB Buffy, Dawson's Creek, Superman's Creek, Charmed, Maybe it's Me, etc,.)

randomguy

07-29-2002, 12:11 AM

Good idea, Larry, but I really don't need to see an anime counterpart to Superman's creek. Oh sure, it might be profitable, but I've had just about enough of the WB's insidious teen programming.

SirLemming

07-29-2002, 01:45 AM

Larry: This is America. We have two settings: children and adult. Well, not for movies and books and stuff -- they're "art." Non-juvenile animation and video games are still relatively new, so we (the public) haven't gotten adjusted to them yet. Ever notice how the game rating system goes right from Everyone to Teen? There's no middle ground -- no PG! And some of the games that get Mature ratings are just ridiculous...
So if Cartoon Network just goes along with the flow for now and exaggerates this as an adult block, problems will be avoided.

As for Yu-Yu Hakusho not being adult, did everyone miss the episode where Hiei stabs Kurama all the way through his body with a sword, causing massive blood flow, and then Kurama grabs the sword blade and gets blood all over his hands, and throws the blood in Hiei's eye? Or how about the one where Seiryuu freezes [a certain monster guy] and shatters him, quite explicitly causing decapitation? Not to mention the recurring fact that Yusuke's mom is a hopeless alcoholic who hangs out in bars with transvestites.

KingKoopa

07-29-2002, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
Why don't they make a Teenage Swim? I mean, the problem here is that many of the anime shows airing on Adult Swim don't truly target or appeal to adults, but on the other hand Toonami is sort of a pre-teen block that must cater to the censorship standards of daytime animation.

With a Teenage Swim, you can shuttle some of the "doesn't fit on Toonami, doesn't fit on Adult Swim" shows onto this block. With this block, you can have your Triguns and your Love Hinas (sorry about that Sheamon! Just an example...) and your Maison Ikkoku and Orange Roads and Gatekeepers on this block. Kind of like an animated version of the typical WB youth block--Angel, the formerly WB Buffy, Dawson's Creek, Superman's Creek, Charmed, Maybe it's Me, etc,.) In my opinion, that's what the Midnight Run SHOULD be. TMR should be a home for TV-PG anime geared for upper teens, like Yu Yu Hakusho, Trigun, Inu-Yasha, and the new Big O episodes. Adult Swim Action could be for more extreme animes, or just plain geared for adults, like Bebop, Eva, and some others.

czyznyck99

07-29-2002, 03:56 AM

Hmmm, in comparing Adult Swim to other CN programming, most of it is certainly adult enough. No sense scaring kids with Bebop or grossing them out with Mission Hill.

For Adult Swim to get any more"adult" will take time. I can imagine the outrage that would have occured if a movie like Ninja Scroll aired unedited on the first weekend.

Later.

randomguy

07-29-2002, 03:04 PM

Well, I think the big problem is that right now, ASA is focused on anime, and there's not a lot of truly adult anime. Most all of it is geared for older teens or the college crowd.

And although I'd like to see US-produced stuff specifically for the block, the big problem with that is that it's a lot more expensive to produce a good action show than a comedy show. You couldn't make a solid action show for the price that you make an episode of Home Movies or ATHF for.

Sheamon

07-29-2002, 03:12 PM

As for Yu-Yu Hakusho not being adult, did everyone miss the episode where Hiei stabs Kurama all the way through his body with a sword, causing massive blood flow, and then Kurama grabs the sword blade and gets blood all over his hands, and throws the blood in Hiei's eye? Or how about the one where Seiryuu freezes [a certain monster guy] and shatters him, quite explicitly causing decapitation? Not to mention the recurring fact that Yusuke's mom is a hopeless alcoholic who hangs out in bars with transvestites.

Content does not make something adult/mature. If so, YYH, DBZ, Outlaw Star, Love Hina, etc... would all be mature shows, something that none of them are. Beneath the surface all shows are very childish, featuring immature, cliche characters and all 4 lack depth. Weak plot structures and abdundance of filler plague all of them. Etc... That knocks them off the 'adult' level.

Anubis C. Soundwave

07-29-2002, 03:31 PM

I suspect that most of those on this board clamoring for more "adult" material are under 18 themselves. Possibly due to the novelty aspect implied in the word "adult".

I understand Sheamon's point here as well. YYH is more of a teen show. I could let my older nephews watch this. Heck, Yusuke and Kuwabara are 14-year olds! [and they ACT like 14-year olds, too.]

Now CB, that's an adult show. The stories are sophisticated, the music sets the atmosphere...this show rivals NYPD Blue. But, it's animated, and in this country...killing rant. Besides, CB was treated well. I'm sure--as an adult--that I can live with less blood in PieLeFou, for example.

Adult animation isn't blood, profanity, and boobs. It's an intelligent storyline, unforgetable characters, and great music, all wrapped up in a neat package. With blood, swearing, and boobs sprinkled in small doses. :p

And with those as my criteria, I may contradict myself. YYH has two out of the three categories. [the music isn't that great; the plots are simple--yet well-constructed. as for those characters, I love them. Especially Kuwabara--I just have a soft spot for the guy. And as far as I've watched YYH, there is ZERO nudity. The most skin I've seen on this show is of Kuwabara's scar-riddled chest. Nothing body-wise to warrant any edits.]

Arde

07-29-2002, 05:09 PM

About YYH not being mature enough ... that is quite true.
The current YYH storyline deals very little with subject deemed mature or adult. However, with the next Yukina storyline hopefully we'll get to see some examples of the demented and cruel in the YYH world (I've read the manga).

As YYH the manga expands in the series, the world of YYH also becomes much more darker and more mature. Hopefully this is also the case with the anime version.

As with ASA right now, I'll have to agree that only series dedicated for adults are Cowboy Bebop.
It's the only series in the whole group that gives stories and characters for adults.
PC isn't a good example of adult swim as the characters and story are very - well, this has been discussed everywhere in the board...
Gundam IS a teen series, unfortunately...

Another example of an excellent animation series for adult swim is the "Now and Then, Here and There" series which deals very much with war, child abuse, rape, mental problems, etc...
Master Keaton is also a very good example of an adult series that doesn't rely on violence and sex to be considered adult.

judgemightor

12-13-2002, 01:03 AM

Yu Yu Hakusho tries so darn hard to be a good anime with its childish way in my opinion of showing adult stuff its crap.And Spawn is so freakin dark and it has so much f words cursing and swearing in it that I don't think it would be good for adult swim its crap too.I'll admit Yu Yu is a million times better than spawn but both in their own ways are stupid.Cowboy Bebop, Inu yasha ,Gundam 0083 and Outlaw star are all really good shows because they represent good anime.

Killtacular

12-13-2002, 01:14 AM

I don't even want to know why you bothered resurrecting this thread to add absolutely nothing of worth.

Charred Knight

12-13-2002, 01:57 AM

When no has posted in a month don't ressurect it.

This is 5 months old.

Kaiser0120

12-13-2002, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
I don't even want to know why you bothered resurrecting this thread to add absolutely nothing of worth.

HHHHMMMMmmmmm... Maybe...

He's an IDIOT? -.-

I'm sorry, but it's just stupid. >.<

Dogasu

12-13-2002, 02:47 AM

I never saw this thread before, and I *do* have some comments to make:

As for Yu-Yu Hakusho not being adult, did everyone miss the episode where Hiei stabs Kurama all the way through his body with a sword, causing massive blood flow, and then Kurama grabs the sword blade and gets blood all over his hands, and throws the blood in Hiei's eye? Or how about the one where Seiryuu freezes [a certain monster guy] and shatters him, quite explicitly causing decapitation? Not to mention the recurring fact that Yusuke's mom is a hopeless alcoholic who hangs out in bars with transvestites.

Dragon Ball Z has had similar things edited out. Paint out the blood and it looks like Kurama just scratched Hiei in the eye. They could even add expository dialogue to drive home the fact. In the Japanese version of DBZ, Guldo (of the Ginyu Force) gets decapitated by Vegeta. With a bit of digital paint and some creative editing, FUNimation had Vegeta "blast him into another dimension." Who says Byakko couldn't die the same way? As for Yusuke's mom, her alcohol could either be changed to the frothy mug of water (a la Master Roshi) or tea (like in Tenchi).

Thing is, CN/FUNimation has faced these types of edits before, and have found ways around them. Putting YYH on Toonami would be more expensive (b/c you'd have to do more paint edits), but it's still quite feasible.

And although I'd like to see US-produced stuff specifically for the block, the big problem with that is that it's a lot more expensive to produce a good action show than a comedy show. You couldn't make a solid action show for the price that you make an episode of Home Movies or ATHF for.

You also have to remember that it took Toonami almost five years before it got an American series made just for the block, and we all know how super-popular *that* particular block is. I give Adult Swim at least that long before we start seeing an American action cartoon on Adult Swim.

In my opinion, that's what the Midnight Run SHOULD be. TMR should be a home for TV-PG anime geared for upper teens, like Yu Yu Hakusho, Trigun, Inu-Yasha, and the new Big O episodes. Adult Swim Action could be for more extreme animes, or just plain geared for adults, like Bebop, Eva, and some others.

Well, it's all a moot point come January, but I agree. In Australia, they show YYH on the Midnight Run, and they get the same edit that we get for our Adult Swim. The Midnight Run would've been great for those shows that aren't adult enough for AS, but not kiddie enough for Toonami. Ah well...

pabcool

12-13-2002, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by Dogasu
Well, it's all a moot point come January, but I agree. In Australia, they show YYH on the Midnight Run, and they get the same edit that we get for our Adult Swim. The Midnight Run would've been great for those shows that aren't adult enough for AS, but not kiddie enough for Toonami. Ah well...

Well, I'm Not Saying WE Should, But Toonami Latin America Airs InuYasha During Daytime Hours And Kenshin At Midnight, All In Adult Swim Edit Levels. Of Course, Since Chile, The Country I Come From Is In Latin America And Considers Ramma 1/2 And Saint Seiya Appropiate For 8-Year-Olds, Maybe That's Not A Good Example. :p

Arxane

12-13-2002, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by pabcool
Well, I'm Not Saying WE Should, But Toonami Latin America Airs InuYasha During Daytime Hours And Kenshin At Midnight, All In Adult Swim Edit Levels. Of Course, Since Chile, The Country I Come From Is In Latin America And Considers Ramma 1/2 And Saint Seiya Appropiate For 8-Year-Olds, Maybe That's Not A Good Example. :p

Well, I wouldn't say that "Inu-Yasha" is edited COMPLETELY to Adult Swim levels in Latin America. I remember reading on a fansite that in the Latin American verson of "Inu-Yasha" the Centipede demon wore a blue bra. Yes, I'm not joking. A nice, beautiful blue bra. There was no mention of whether her breasts were toned down as wel, but if this were any indication, I'd say that Latin America just might see digibikinis everywhere in "Inu-Yasha".

But concerning the fact that these shows actually air in these countries and that they are considered appropriate material...that's because they were originally made for a young audience! Believe it or not, "Cowboy Bebop" was not originally made for adults; it was marketed to teenagers. Both "DBZ" and "Yu Yu Hakusho" were marketed to younger tweens. "Ramna" was originally made for 8-year old Japanese girls. And even "Inu-Yasha" was marketed to a younger audience than it's marketed to here in the States.

The simple truth is that America's sense of what is "adult" is different from other countries' sense of what is "adult." People in countries like Japan don't see violence and nudity as taboos that should be hidden by censors. Childrens programming often have nudity and violence, as if evident by the wildly popular Japanese show "Detective Conan". This show is dark. VERY dark. It has a scene where a young girl is thrown, bound and gagged, into a trunk with a severed head. Later episodes include a sadist shooting a captive in the arms and legs to make her bleed to death slowly and painfully. Yet this show is a kids show, which shows just how radically different our ideas of "adult" and they're ideas of "adult" are.

Of course, not all shows are marketed to the younger crowd, as if evident by the large sum of hentai titles made in Japan. But the point is that what we consider adult may not be considered adult by another country. So trying to compare our Toonami to their Toonami is pointless. The United States is so damn-well politically correct and full of itself that it's no wonder that the world laughs at us so much. We live in an individualistic society where we have to censor things just because they just might possibly offend someone, leaving the rest of us to see watered-down products.

Maybe someday we will manage to get our heads out of our asses, but for now we have to deal with a nation that thinks saying the word "kill" will damage a 10-year old forever.

Killtacular

12-13-2002, 07:00 PM

Believe it or not, "Cowboy Bebop" was not originally made for adults; it was marketed to teenagers.

Uh, no?

Cowboy Bebop was on two different premium stations, created and marketted towards adults.

Cyporiean

12-13-2002, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Uh, no?

Cowboy Bebop was on two different premium stations, created and marketted towards adults.

Bingo, Cowboy Bebop is one of the few shows on ASA made for Adults.

And Ranma 1/2 & InuYasha are both marketed for Teens.

Arxane

12-13-2002, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Uh, no?

Cowboy Bebop was on two different premium stations, created and marketted towards adults.

Even if they were marketed towards adults on those channels, Shinichiro Watanabe himself has stated that the primary intended audience for "Cowboy Bebop" was teenagers. I got this info from John, the anime guru at Animenation. Judging by his Ask John collumns, I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.

Read the collumn if you'd like. (http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=584)

Killtacular

12-13-2002, 08:07 PM

Well, geez. What animes would be considered "aimed at" adults, since practically nothing I know is?

Because so far, the only thing that seems to count is hentai. I mean if every series in Japan is aimed at teenagers, why complain that AS isn't "adult", seeing as this is the best they can get.

Anyway, regardless of the original demographic, the demographic in America is often different than Japan's. It's not because American audiences are dumber, we're just raised differently so we have different views about topics, content, and issues that give us different preferences than the Japanese regarding animation.

Cyporiean

12-13-2002, 09:41 PM

Adult..

Cowboy Bebop, Mobile Suit Gundam, Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll...

there are much more.. (Tons of Manga for adults that aren't Hentai).. just can't remember them..

Killtacular

12-13-2002, 09:53 PM

Cowboy Bebop, Mobile Suit Gundam, Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll...

But people say Ghost in the Shell and Cowboy Bebop are for "teens". And that Gundam is for "kids."

sl4

12-13-2002, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
But people say Ghost in the Shell and Cowboy Bebop are for "teens". And that Gundam is for "kids."

"Yes". :harley:

Cyporiean

12-13-2002, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
But people say Ghost in the Shell and Cowboy Bebop are for "teens". And that Gundam is for "kids."

and people say Pokemon is what everything that comes from japan is like.

JetMaster5

12-13-2002, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by arxane
Even if they were marketed towards adults on those channels, Shinichiro Watanabe himself has stated that the primary intended audience for "Cowboy Bebop" was teenagers. I got this info from John, the anime guru at Animenation. Judging by his Ask John collumns, I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.

Read the collumn if you'd like. (http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=584)

There are times when John, the Animenation anime guru can be wrong. Not sure if this is one of his times, but still, it should be put into consideration. Please refer to this thread.

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44273&highlight=Ask+John

Gruntling

12-14-2002, 12:02 AM

If they left all the ASA shows intact and unedited, I would consider most of them to be somewhat adult. Cowboy Bebop is the only show I think is adult-oriented. Inu Yasha can be adult-like at times, but the rest of the shows are not showing any colors adult-wise. Yu Yu has its moments, but I've yet to see any real violence, nudity/sex, or language. Yu Yu in itself is one of the best anime of all time, but until I see more of it, I cannot say it is a completely adult show.

SirLemming

12-14-2002, 01:51 AM

You know, after reading all of this...

Who freakin' cares?

I mean, I can understand everyone's desire to see adult-oriented shows on Adult Swim. But I personally don't see why every show on the block has to push the limits. Can't we just be happy if they show good shows? Yes, edits are unfortunate, and they're clearly getting better. But when people complain that Cowboy Bebop isn't adult enough, I just have to ask: What more do you want? Believe it or not, maybe there just aren't a whole lot of shows that are not only more "controversial" than CB but also better. What determines the quality of a show?

To some extent, all nay-sayers have to admit that there have been episodes of these shows that just wouldn't fly on Toonami without serious cuts or changes. It would be positively brutal. Then everyone would be whining even more.
I mean, really, what would we gain from having Yu-Yu Hakusho on Toonami? It's not like ASA is so crowded that they should take away Yu-Yu's privelege to be nearly unedited. And where exactly do you draw the line between "Well, this show could be on Toonami if they chopped it up brutally, so it shouldn't be on ASA" and "Well, this show could be on Toonami if they chopped it up brutally, but that would be a crime against humanity so it should be on Adult Swim."

Killtacular

12-14-2002, 03:03 AM

I mean, really, what would we gain from having Yu-Yu Hakusho on Toonami? It's not like ASA is so crowded that they should take away Yu-Yu's privelege to be nearly unedited. And where exactly do you draw the line between "Well, this show could be on Toonami if they chopped it up brutally, so it shouldn't be on ASA" and "Well, this show could be on Toonami if they chopped it up brutally, but that would be a crime against humanity so it should be on Adult Swim."

THANK YOU.

I've been sick myself from people saying Yu Yu should be hacked up for Toonami. They should read about the second major story arc sometime.

Dalamar13

12-14-2002, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by Gruntling
but I've yet to see any real violence, nudity/sex, or language.

Oh I forgot that sex, violence and coarse language is what makes a show adult. :rolleyes:

I always thought it was the actual story and characters that made a show "adult". Maybe if you're a kid then that would make it adult, but the theme, mood and characters are what do it in my book.

I'm really getting tired of posts lke this. If you want sex go watch some hentai. If you want extreme language go watch south park. Just quit *****ing about it not being on ASA. Sheesh.....

Nexus810

12-14-2002, 08:54 AM

a Very good point indeed. The stories of Cowboy Bebop Inu Yasha and Gundams are in all actually above a child's real comprehension. Sure someone may be able to keep up but really it takes an adult to fully understand and appreciate it.

Violence, Nudity, language and such are all added bonuses that never MAKE stories, and those stories that are made on such things are bad and dont succeed.

SirLemming

12-14-2002, 04:29 PM

Something else I must point out, as I did the night it aired, is Inu-Yasha's "The Soul Piper and the Mischeivous Little Soul." That was the episode with the little girl who died in the fire. She thought it was her mother's fault, so (as a spirit) she kept trying to do things that would cause her brother (also a little kid) to die. She was eventually being dragged into Hell, and there was some pretty intense psychological and emotional stuff involved when Kagome tried to convince her that her mother really wasn't responsible.
How do you put THAT on Toonami? I think that episode may be the most adult thing ever to air on Adult Swim. It was extremely intense, and the concepts were just way too morbid for the kiddies. Even if it DID somehow air unedited on Toonami (which it wouldn't have), it just wouldn't appeal to kids. It's clearly meant for mature audiences -- psychologically mature.

Nik Jam

12-14-2002, 04:59 PM

Am I the only one that DOESN'T want TV-MA on Adult Swim? Besides Rejected, I'm happy with just TV-14. I'd prefer not seeing the SH and F word on AS too.

VinceA

12-14-2002, 05:16 PM

You're not the only one. You don't need nudity or 'vulgar' language to be adult. There are times when it compliments or enhances things but it shouldn't be dumped in just to shock people (the South Park formula)

sl4

12-14-2002, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by VinceA
You're not the only one. You don't need nudity or 'vulgar' language to be adult. There are times when it compliments or enhances things but it shouldn't be dumped in just to shock people (the South Park formula)

Yeah, that's what I think too. They should be given the freedom to use it, but they shouldn't abuse the power. I have a feeling that if they ever do get the ability to show TV-MA programming, Sealab 2021 is going to be the first to use it. :p

aesir

12-14-2002, 05:33 PM

South Park is the work of two geniuses. Don't bag on it. As for the rest of this, vulgar language and nudity aren't all that important towards a good show. Its never necessary in a show. Frankly i dont care whether its there or not as long as the plot is good. Who cares whats adult and what isnt. I watch things because i enjoy watching them

Masamune2052

12-14-2002, 06:30 PM

Were not reigning fury upon South Park more than we are saying that other shows should not try to copy it. They should use nudity and vulgar/adult content to an extent because it was put in for a reason! If they took out Miroku's groping scenes and his hentai personality then you don't have Miroku anymore and his character wouldn't be as interesting and neither would any of his *many* relationships. If you stopped Yusuke from cursing and toned down his fight scenes then you wouldn't see why he was picked to be a rekai detective and how he progresses in the series. If they made Spike's past not so dark then you wouldn't understand why he is so determined to find Julia and how the Red Dragon Syndicate was hutning him. Events are done for very good reasons, not just to demonstrate the power of fanservice and every curse word imaginable.

Dalamar13

12-15-2002, 12:32 AM

VinceA

12-15-2002, 05:13 AM

I think that for many people the definition of 'adult' changes as you become more of one. Earlier in life you're not allowed/supposed to say certain words so you associate them with being big/adult.

Conan-san

12-15-2002, 06:49 AM

I'll say this, I dont consider ASA Adult untill the day EVA appears...

VinceA

12-15-2002, 10:00 AM

In that case it most likely will never be adult in your eyes since I think Eva will be exclusive to ADV's Anime Network in this country.

Dalamar13

12-15-2002, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by VinceA
I think that for many people the definition of 'adult' changes as you become more of one. Earlier in life you're not allowed/supposed to say certain words so you associate them with being big/adult.

That's my theory on it as well Vince. :D

Sweet Jesus! Eva will never be on AS. People just don't get that apparently.

Mynd Hed

12-15-2002, 12:11 PM

I'll say this, I dont consider ASA Adult untill the day EVA appears...

Well, the fact of the American rights being in ADV's hands and their recent press release including Eva among the Anime Network's premiere shows aside....

So if ASA showed Berserk but not Eva, it still wouldn't be adult in your eyes? And if they put Eva on the block, but nixed every other show in favor of Hamtaro and Pilot Candidate reruns, it WOULD be adult?

Come on now. I'm used to Eva fans putting it up on a pedestal, but it's not the only adult-oriented anime out there. It's not even the best-- Cowboy Bebop matches up to it in every way that matters, and exceeds it in a couple of ways.

I agree that as of right now (I think it will change dramatically in the next year) ASA isn't as adult as it could be... but Eva isn't a magic wand that makes anything associated with it adult, either.

DarkMaster

12-15-2002, 12:40 PM

Cowboy Bebop
YuYu Hakusho
Tenchi
Inuyasha
Outlaw Star
Pilot Candidate
Gundam 0083
MSG

These titles are adult-oriented and they appeal to the older viewer in the anime community.

You've got perverts, bad girls that still want to get laid, and their still adult criticisms in gundam, outlaw star, and some blood in pilot candidate etc.

Just because certain editing fairies,don't want to make them more mature, makes them not adult in the anime community. The underlying premise of the stories are still there just not recognized and approved in our country yet.

As a anime fan i would rather get the knowledge on that these titles are still mature regardless, the stories are still the same and they appeal to exact audience adult swim has them for.

Williams Street and CN tried to get bebop and yuyu completely uncut before BS&P stepped in.

I'd complain who make themselves richer and influence laws to their own benefit. And to the politician who gives it back to them to get re-elected many times, instead of caring about the people. :D

Killtacular

12-15-2002, 01:23 PM

These titles are adult-oriented and they appeal to the older viewer in the anime community.

Sure, except for Pilot Candidate.

DarkMaster

12-15-2002, 01:39 PM

I wasn't sure about that one. :\

Cyporiean

12-15-2002, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Sure, except for Pilot Candidate.

Tenchi Is Teen Males

Yu Yu Hakusho is Teen Males

Candidate for Goddess is... *shrugs* never bothered with that crap..

Inu Yasha is Teen Males

Outlaw Star is Tricky.. haven't seen the Manga yet so can't say what the creator is going for..

Bebop and Gundam Are Adults.

Neon Genesis Evangelion is aimed at Teen Males, Not Adults.

Apophis

12-15-2002, 06:43 PM

I think ill just through my few cents in here.

1)- According to american standards, content does give a show "adult" ratings. I mean come on, porn is rated X for a reason.

2)-Does this make a show better? No. Of course not, it simply means there are things here that make the show probably not suitable for children. There of course are other things that make stuff not suitable for children, like storyline, but to my knowledge they don't go by complexity of a storyline. The shows on adult swim are called adult because of a mixture of content/complexity, I think, which is why it is so plainly labeled to the point of annoyingness.

3)-Do parents always support these warnings? *stifled laugh* of course not. My mom is neutral to adult swim, she doesnt care if I watch it, cause she knows ive said or seen worse. Dad on the other hand thinks any tv that comes on later than 10 pm is crap. Types of parents like my mom, or even adults that actually watch (gasp) the adult blocks encourage teenage children to watch the programming, creating a fairly large (in my opinion) group of viewers who are in 9th-11th grade. Just an observation.

Anyway, thats just my opinion.

Masamune2052

12-15-2002, 06:55 PM

One thing everyone needs to remember is what's adult here isn't adult in Japan. Most anime series are aimed towards teenagers while adults can still watch them.

sl4

12-15-2002, 07:05 PM

Yeah, I mean look at Hamtaro! In Japan, it was targeted at young kids! In the US, it was targeted at... wait, oh.... nevermind. :brak:

rmarti3926

12-15-2002, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by livingfruitvirus
"Outlaw Star" and "Big O" also have adult aspect.

Yeah, but it will be more better if they restore most of the edits they bucthered for Toonami (like that Hot Springs episode, references to "blasters" back to "guns" - especially undigitizing those "blasters" from the Seven Emerge ep. - and of course Gene's sexual banter. (Outlaw Star) - and remove the "O" in "GOOD" as in "Cast in the Name of Good", and references to alcohol (a beer scene in one of the eps) (The Big-O)

Kaiser0120

12-15-2002, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by rmarti3926
Yeah, but it will be more better if they restore most of the edits they bucthered for Toonami (like that Hot Springs episode, references to "blasters" back to "guns" - especially undigitizing those "blasters" from the Seven Emerge ep. - and of course Gene's sexual banter. (Outlaw Star) - and remove the "O" in "GOOD" as in "Cast in the Name of Good", and references to alcohol (a beer scene in one of the eps) (The Big-O)

Yep, it'll sure be More better! ^.^;

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I wouldn't really call what happened to Tenchi and Outlaw Star BUTCHURING, per say. I mean, look at DragonBall Z and Sailormoon. THAT'S butchuring. -.-;

rmarti3926

12-15-2002, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Uh, no?

Cowboy Bebop was on two different premium stations, created and marketted towards adults.

May I reply this in a few simple words:

COWBOY BEBOP: Adult
YYH: NOT adult
INUYASHA: NOT Adult
GUNDAM (if unedited): Adult
LUPIN III: DEFINATELY Adult
GITS TV: DEFINATELY Adult

Cyporiean

12-15-2002, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by rmarti3926
May I reply this in a few simple words:

COWBOY BEBOP: Adult
YYH: NOT adult
INUYASHA: NOT Adult
GUNDAM (if unedited): Adult
LUPIN III: DEFINATELY Adult
GITS TV: DEFINATELY Adult

Agreed.

SirLemming

12-15-2002, 11:00 PM

So you obviously didn't see the Soul Piper episode...

ClockStomper

12-15-2002, 11:24 PM

I'm an older teen and I liked the Soul Piper episode...but then again I like things dark. And Bebop isn't so "Adult" that people ages 13+ can't enjoy it.

But at the same time, I don't really get what the *****ing is all about. I'm glad we get to see these shows nearly uncut. Sure there's a lot of stupid edits (Jet's shirt in Cowboy Funk, Yuske groping Kieko, which was cool in 13+ magazine but not on 18+ programing block) but the fact of the matter is that the shows would be destroyed on Toonami. Many people already write off the shows on Toonami because the editing makes them look stupid/inane, so to see them presented in almost the same fashion as they were originally presented in is great.

Sure, it's too bad american teens/kids can't appriciate tragic romances and anything involving d-e-a-t-h the way the same japanese age group can, but this way it's being presented to the right audiance and in a way that's respectful to the original creators (when I see the edited anime on Toonami and on network TV, I can imagine the creators in Japan digging graves so they can roll in them.)