Will JL:TAS break the 3 season curse?

[wonderfly]

I wanted your thoughts/predictions on how many seasons Justice League is going to be on the air. If we look at the other TAS of the 90's, we see that none survived past three seasons. Yeah, they'll all live in reruns forever, but actual production never seems to last past three seasons. And no, I don't count The New Batman Adventures as a 4th Season of B:TAS. The New Batman Adventures is a SEQUEL, since technically, production had stopped for B:TAS back in 1994.

Batman: 1992=1st Season. 60 episodes

Batman: 1993=2nd Season. 5 leftover episodes of the first season, the show becomes The Batman and Robin Adventures, and we get 15 more episodes.

Batman: 1994=3rd season. 5 episodes.

Superman: 1996=1st Season. 13 episodes.

Superman: 1997=2nd Season 28 episodes.

Superman: 1998=13 episodes.

Batman Beyond: 1999=13 episodes.

Batman Beyond: 1999, (fall)= 26 episodes

Batman Beyond: 2001=13 episodes.

See? None have lasted in production more than 3 years? Will Justice League avoid this fate? I'd love to see one of these shows get more than 100 episodes while in continous production.

On a similar note, why do most cartoon shows get ordered in batchs of 13, (unless they're going for a mass syndication, and order 65 like they did with the original BTAS)? The Simpsons gets roughly 26 episode every single year, and you figure they'd be willing to fork out that money for action cartoons as well. Justice League, blessedly, is the first action cartoon in this line to seem to get 26 episodes every season, (but we are only 2 Seasons into it) so will it get the same number of episodes ordered for the 3rd, (and 4th?) seasons?

[JohnStewart-GL]

I sure hope so. JL has to many characters for jus three seasons 5 seasons would really be enough.

[James Harvey]

Um...you got some inaccurate info there. Batman Beyond is currently the only show to last only three years. Here's the info:

Superman
Season 1 - 13 episodes
Season 2 - 28 episodes
Season 3 - 10 episodes
Season 4 - 3 episodes

Batman
Season 1 - 60 episodes
Season 2 - 10 episodes
Season 3 - 10 episodes
Season 4 - 5 episodes
Season 5 - 13 episodes (now TNBA)
Season 6 - 11 episodes (now TNBA)

Batman Beyond
Season 1 - 13 episodes
Season 2 - 26 episodes
Season 3 - 13 episodes*

*includes 'Unmasked' airing on CN. Episode was originally set to be the last episode to air on the final KWB Batman Beyond airdate. I was then delayed, but aired in rerun rotation on CN


Even if you do consider 'TNBA' a sequel, it had 4 seasons. I can't really say Superman had four seasons, since WB held 3 episodes to use to premiere a 4th season. Batman Beyond is the only sure to really have 3 seasons.

[wonderfly]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
Um...you got some inaccurate info there. Batman Beyond is currently the only show to last only three years. Here's the info:

Superman
Season 1 - 13 episodes
Season 2 - 28 episodes
Season 3 - 10 episodes
Season 4 - 3 episodes

Batman
Season 1 - 60 episodes
Season 2 - 10 episodes
Season 3 - 10 episodes
Season 4 - 5 episodes
Season 5 - 13 episodes (now TNBA)
Season 6 - 11 episodes (now TNBA)

Batman Beyond
Season 1 - 13 episodes
Season 2 - 26 episodes
Season 3 - 13 episodes*

*includes 'Unmasked' airing on CN. Episode was originally set to be the last episode to air on the final KWB Batman Beyond airdate. I was then delayed, but aired in rerun rotation on CN


Even if you do consider 'TNBA' a sequel, it had 4 seasons. I can't really say Superman had four seasons, since WB held 3 episodes to use to premiere a 4th season. Batman Beyond is the only sure to really have 3 seasons.

Well, my info on BTAS was sketchy from memory, but what you said about STAS is what I was thinking: Those 3 episodes left over for the "4th Season" don't really count in my opinion...

Which is similar to what I'm saying about BTAS. Weren't those 5 episodes that you say constitute a Season 4 for BTAS really just leftovers that they didn't air from the previous Season? The only reason they do that is so the network will have something to air during Sweeps month in Sept. Stupid Networks! Always holding out on us!

[James Harvey]

I saw they do count. The three new episodes kicked off the last season of Batman/Superman on KWB. Granted, they were held back, but they were not scheduled to air in the 3rd season, anyways. Same with Batman. FOX used the last five episodes to kick off the 4th season. The network had no plan to air them in the 3rd season. Since the network had no plans to airs those episodes in the previous season, you can't really say they were held back...becuase...well...they weren't being held back. They were being used as the netowkr wanted to use them. They were going to be used to air in the next season. Sure, it was sort of a mean thing to do - use only three new episodes to kick off essentially a season of repeats. The listing I gave above is the official information from WB. If WB says "Legacy Part 1 " was the 4th season premiere for Superman, then for me it is. They may not have been complete seasons, but they were seasons.

But each to his own.

[murmur]

Justice League is prime time, and an essential part of Cartoon Network's line-up. It has much better survival chances than previous Timm shows, where they were left to battle hot kiddie shows on popular networks. That being said, let's not compare action cartoons, even good ones, with The Simpsons. The Simpsons is one of the greatest, most successfull television programs of any type. Its in a class by itself.

[Squall]

On one hand, I'm happy that we have a Justice League TV series at all... :D ... on the other hand, there are SO many good stories that Timm & Co. can tell, since JL is an extension of B:TAS and S:TAS, and since they had such a great premiere pilot movie, that 2 Seasons just doesn't seem like enough. I pray that JL gets at least 3 Seasons, preferably 5+ Seasons!!! Long live Justice League!!! :D

[Justice League 2000]

I hope justice league will get 6 seasons. :)

[Simpler Simon]

I think the question is not the number of seasons, but the number of episodes we get. So far, we are guaranteed to get 52 episodes. This puts us on par with BB and STAS. However, if we get season 3, the number is bumped up to 78 episodes. Personally I'd be happy with this, because the only show that had more episodes was BTAS, not counting the revamped series. However, bring on season 4, and we set a whole new record!!!

[Cyber E.]

I would love it if they would made more then 2 Seasons of JL, I would also love World PEace,Enviromental Harmony and Honest Politicans. But as stated before if you run a show out for to long people start to get tired of it. If they make more Eppie's the Batman you know the show is doomed.

And what doe's it matter about Season 3 anyway? We need to get "Injustice For All" first!

[Green-Ghost]

I hope there will be a 3nd season.
Because I have read that they have some Poison Ivy storys,but Bruce Timm don´t want to use them in season 2(he don´t want so many Batman villains in the series yet :( )
So I hope they will put them in season 3 :)

[mbaker]

The Simpsons have been around for what, 13 seasons? I love The Simpsons, but you know sooner or later it's gonna come to an end. It'll be interesting to see if it can stay as long as Gunsmoke did. (Here's A fun fact. Gunsmoke's 20th season resulted in the abrupt cancelation of Gilligan's Island. The show that CBS loved to hate the time.) Here's hoping that Justice League can last for 5, or 6 seasons. Long Live Justice League!

[wonderfly]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
I saw they do count. The three new episodes kicked off the last season of Batman/Superman on KWB. Granted, they were held back, but they were not scheduled to air in the 3rd season, anyways. Same with Batman. FOX used the last five episodes to kick off the 4th season. The network had no plan to air them in the 3rd season. Since the network had no plans to airs those episodes in the previous season, you can't really say they were held back...becuase...well...they weren't being held back. They were being used as the netowkr wanted to use them. They were going to be used to air in the next season. Sure, it was sort of a mean thing to do - use only three new episodes to kick off essentially a season of repeats. The listing I gave above is the official information from WB. If WB says "Legacy Part 1 " was the 4th season premiere for Superman, then for me it is. They may not have been complete seasons, but they were seasons.

But each to his own.

Hmmm...you say at first, "Granted, they were held back", and then you say "you can't really say they were held back...because...well...they weren't being held back"!

Aha! I got you tongue-tied! Thus, I must be on to something! :p
At least we agree it was a mean thing to do. Stupid Networks! ;)

My real complaint/hope is that JL:TAS needs to have 26 episodes EVERY season, and needs to last more that 2 or 3 seasons, like previous shows of our favorite superheros. In other words, it needs to be like the Simpsons. :rolleyes: I know the networks don't want to spend that type of money, but they can just get over it!

Hey, just look at Superfriends! It was on the air for roughly 10 years, (in various membership incarnations), and they brought new episodes to us every year. Of course, it was cheesy as hell....

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by wonderfly
Aha! I got you tongue-tied! Thus, I must be on to something! :p
At least we agree it was a mean thing to do. Stupid Networks! ;)

Nah, I'm just a bad typist. To put it in a less babbling kinda way: The networks held on to the episodes with no plans to air them the previous seasons. The networks planned to use them as the start to the next seasons. Therefore, they were not planned to be aired in season 3, but in season 4. That makes them 'season 4' episodes, since there was no plan to air them in season 3.

But yeah, stupid networks :)

[wonderfly]

And another thing, the Injustice 4 All and the other Season 1 episodes...does this mean they are officially Season 2 episodes now?

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by wonderfly
My real complaint/hope is that JL:TAS needs to have 26 episodes EVERY season, and needs to last more that 2 or 3 seasons, like previous shows of our favorite superheros. In other words, it needs to be like the Simpsons. :rolleyes: I know the networks don't want to spend that type of money, but they can just get over it!

Hey, just look at Superfriends! It was on the air for roughly 10 years, (in various membership incarnations), and they brought new episodes to us every year. Of course, it was cheesy as hell....

I agree. I don't buy the whole "four episodes of Superman was one season" (as an example) just cuz WB likes to hold things back from us. I mean, heck, look at Batman Beyond's 'Unmasked.' I feel that buying into that means I'm encouraging them to do it more. :p

Now Squall IS right, we're happy and priveledged to have our show at all, but hey what could a little speculation and prediction hurt? :) Three seasons wouldn't be enough, I agree. I think it'd be like five MINIMUM if things go the way we wann'em to character development-wise.

[TheGothsandman]

Now, I think the true question is if the JL:TAS can beat the Superfriends(I read somewhere long ago it had 14 seasons, though I saw the ten year comment.). I say they should aim for 15 just to be safe, and sure.

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by wonderfly
And another thing, the Injustice 4 All and the other Season 1 episodes...does this mean they are officially Season 2 episodes now?

Nope - they are still season 1. I remember a poster awhile back said CN will likely hold off new episode suntil the end of the season, to lead into season two. Tha looks to be what they are doing. These are still season 1 episodes. Look at how they are scheduled. The three part THE SAVAGE TIME is now a CARTOON THEATRE movie, not airing in it's regular timeslot ( I Know - SECRET ORIGINS premiered in Cartoon Theatre, but it was labelled as the JL Premiere - THE SAVAGE TIME isn't listed as the JL Season Finale, just a JL Movie). And THE SAVAGE TIME is airing between the two parts of INJUSTICE FOR ALL. I think METAMORPHOSIS will be the last season 1 episode to air in October. Then after a few weeks of repeats, season 2 will kick off in November.

[wonderfly]

Originally posted by TheGothsandman
Now, I think the true question is if the JL:TAS can beat the Superfriends(I read somewhere long ago it had 14 seasons, though I saw the ten year comment.). I say they should aim for 15 just to be safe, and sure.

I think it started in 1973, and went off the air in 1985 or 86. Didn't the show start out with the stupid kid sidekicke, (the one kid had a white shirt with a big M on it?) and then they opted for the Wondertwins, and then they brought on Fire something or other in the 80's when they had to fight Darkseid, (seems like the Darkseid episodes were the only episodes I remember from the mid 80's version, and boy was that Darkseid sad).

I've got a Superfriends original script I bought off of Ebay, written by Jeffrey Scott for the 1978 season. it's the script to the episode "Day of the Plant monsters" or something like that. Ah, Superfriends...well, enough nostolgia.

[wonderfly]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey


Nope - they are still season 1. I remember a poster awhile back said CN will likely hold off new episode suntil the end of the season, to lead into season two. Tha looks to be what they are doing. These are still season 1 episodes. Look at how they are scheduled. The three part THE SAVAGE TIME is now a CARTOON THEATRE movie, not airing in it's regular timeslot ( I Know - SECRET ORIGINS premiered in Cartoon Theatre, but it was labelled as the JL Premiere - THE SAVAGE TIME isn't listed as the JL Season Finale, just a JL Movie). And THE SAVAGE TIME is airing between the two parts of INJUSTICE FOR ALL. I think METAMORPHOSIS will be the last season 1 episode to air in October. Then after a few weeks of repeats, season 2 will kick off in November.

Well, then shouldn't those 3 Superman episodes just have been an extended Season? So if a cartoon starts it's Season in November, they have till next Sept. to wrap up the Season? (I know a regular series starts in September, and ends the season in May...but then again, the X-Files for the last few seasons started in November, and ended in May. )

No, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, I'm trying to figure this out, and of course, making my head hurt. :yawn: Of course, if WB says 3 episodes of Superman is what constitutes a 4th Season, who are we to argue with them? :rolleyes:

[James Harvey]

So if a cartoon starts it's Season in November, they have till next Sept. to wrap up the Season?
For the Major networks, they go until May sweeps, then go to the summer reruns. CN is not a major network, therefore doesn't fall under the same timetable that the big networks do. Technically, a season for a tv show can go from September to August - for 12 months, but the network usually only go for 8, and give the 4 months off for vacation, and to start filming the next season. In the olden days of television, there were new episodes (with reruns here and there) all 12 months of the year. That's not possible now becuase of money and budget issues, etc...

There's ALOT to this, trust me. If you think your heads hurts now...

Now, onto JL...

The WB and CN networks are different. CN is a 24 animation channel with new episodes all year, essentially, with all their different programs. KWB is an animation block on WB that follows the season structure September - May. Different network structure, different season structure. (I hope I spelled structure right) This makes my head hurt, too, but this is the info that WB officially anounces. Legacy was announced as the offcial start to the fourth season. The new upcoming JL episodes (I4L, TST, ANOS) are not being announced as second season episodes, there for are season one episodes.

There's no real complication or mystery to it. And I think that's it. Any questions about the how the networks run their shows, etc, should be posted on The Entertainment Board. The JL stuff can stay here, of course :)

...and I'm spent...

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Even if Justice League only lasts three seasons, (Which I'm darn sure hoping it'll last a lot longer than that!!) They could always revive the show later like they did with Batman.

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by JusticeLeagueLegion
Even if Justice League only lasts three seasons, (Which I'm darn sure hoping it'll last a lot longer than that!!) They could always revive the show later like they did with Batman.
true. and change the name like batman did they could call it Justice League Task Force

[czyznyck99]

I'm spinning from all of this talk about what constitutes an actual season of ANY show, so I won't even try. I think Justice League will make it to Season 3 for 78 episodes, but further than that is a toss-up if the Teen Titans series ever happens.

Later.

[unknown hero]

i say that if they can avoid the internal politics that plagues a cartoon and forces it to an abrupt end, jl should last up season 4.

hopefully without tv execs breathing down the creators' neck, they should do just fine

[wonderfly]

Originally posted by czyznyck99
I'm spinning from all of this talk about what constitutes an actual season of ANY show, so I won't even try. I think Justice League will make it to Season 3 for 78 episodes, but further than that is a toss-up if the Teen Titans series ever happens.

Later.

Which is exactly why I believe the Teen Titans series is a bad idea, especially right now. Anything that might distract or take the wind out of the sails of the JL:TAS show I'm against. I'm all for the Teen Titans appearing in an episode of JL, but a spin-off? It's waaaayyy to early to start talking spinoffs.

[Johnny Depp]

Originally posted by wonderfly


Which is exactly why I believe the Teen Titans series is a bad idea, especially right now. Anything that might distract or take the wind out of the sails of the JL:TAS show I'm against. I'm all for the Teen Titans appearing in an episode of JL, but a spin-off? It's waaaayyy to early to start talking spinoffs.

AMEN Wonderfly. The first sniff of the Teen Titans rumor I thought there is waaaaaay too much untapped potential in JL to dirty our hands with a Teen Titans series. Especailly since they are meandering through just one season so suspiciously slowly.