Gender and money : what did your family teach you?

[The Old Maid]

I was watching The Cosby Show and it reminded me of the episode when Vanessa whined that her friends insulted her and beat her up. Vanessa's parents had spent over $10,000 to repurchase a family heirloom painted by Clare's great-grandparents and sold for food during the Depression. Now the item was valuable, and the Huxtables had had to compete with collectors to buy it back. Vanessa very foolishly told her friends this story but told it wrong. She got called out for "bragging" and now no one would talk to her.

Vanessa : "I had to fight them. They called me something really horrible. They called me a spoiled little rich girl."

Clare : "Why did you tell them what we spent?"

Vanessa : "They asked me."

Clare : "Maybe it was none of their business. You need to learn when people are being nosy."

Vanessa : "It's not my fault we're so rich!"

Clare : "Rich is when the money works for you. Your father and I work for the money, honey, and we work hard for the money. And we have the right to spend our own money as we please."

Vanessa : "But nobody wants to be my friend anymore because we're so rich!"

Cliff : "Your mother and I are rich. You ... have ... nothing."

Vanessa : "Well, all I know is, when I grow up, I'm never going to have rich kids because nobody likes them and I know how that feels."

Cliff : "These poor children you're planning to have? You're not going to bring them begging around here, are you?"

This scene was funny on TV, but it's not as funny in the real world. Except for the compulsory Home Economics class in school, our society doesn't teach young people about money. It leaves that job to the parents. I'm just not sure that enough parents are very good at it.

For one thing I've noticed that boys and girls are often taught different things about money. I'm not the only one who thinks so -- the writers of The Millionaire Next Door/The Millionaire Mind and two writers in the April 2002 Washington Monthly had a lot to say about gender bias and money. The MND/MM writers focused on family feuds and the WM writers on the ways in which Black men are falling behind economically. Though they write from different subcultures, all the authors were saying the same thing : girls get more help from Mom and Pop because of a perception that they need it more. The catch is that their brothers are being asked to finance these advantages.

Now where I grew up, we were the exception to the rule. We were all kept in the dark equally. Talking about money was considered vulgar, mooching, whining. It was a big secret. To this day I don't actually know what my father did for a living. "Worked with computers." That's like saying "worked with tools." You could have been a plumber, a carpenter, or built the Brooklyn Bridge. No one in my family ever learned to budget. We just didn't talk about it.

How about you?

[Chris Sanders MSX]

I love that episode anyway, my family openly talks about our wealth. We are in the upper middle class, have 3 cars..etc. My mom is the one who brags about it the most, my dad makes most of the money however and is kind of tight with his cash. We also in addition to my parents regular jobs have a Family owned buisness, I usually get paid to design posters and cards.

I'm kinda scared for my future because I have 2 career goals, Both seem hard to get into, Advertisment/Marketing and graphic Designer. I want my children to be in comfortable situation like me, but not to the point where they get lazy or dependent, But i just don't know because I've never really had to worry about much. I think that's one thing I'm going to do, i'm not going to really tell my kids about how much we make.

My parents never made any distinction as to would get the most help when it comes to this type of stuff. I'm thinking it's going to be my little sister because she's no where near as dedicated to school or as smart as I am.

[JetMaster5]

I'm in the lower class. Money's always been on my family's mind and they usually talk about it in the open. We work through jobs and stuff to support ourselves. I wouldn't have been so dedicated to school if I were in any other class.


Originally posted by Chris Sanders MSX
I think that's one thing I'm going to do, i'm not going to really tell my kids about how much we make.

There's a drawback to this method. If you don't tell your kids how much you really make, then they might not be so dedicated towards school as well.

[Chris Sanders MSX]

I thought it'd have a reverse effect making them want to work for more, but its' not like I'm going to have them poverty stricken. 'm a sensible person, so let's say I become a millionare I'm not going to go out and buy the absolute best car. I'm getting something decent or average that's safe and dependable, same with my house.

My kids will know we are well off, but they will think that theyw ill have to earn what they get, giving them a good work ethic which I admitedly don't have, but will develop once I learn what's out in the real world for lazzy people.

[James]

I have been very fortunate to have had a mother who has let me indulge in various, 'difficult careers' - in fact, she supports me doing them. I've been trying illustration, script writing and music. I'm very grateful for her support as otherwise I'd have been burdened with so many financial problems to cope.

I'm still going to pursue these avenues (as well as looking at getting into acting - it's the stage bug that music has given me) while trying to find a more stable and solid income - possibly through teaching. While I'm thankful for the support from my parent, I do want to find some stability in a interesting jobs while trying to further my dreams. I'm fed up of doing rubbish jobs which pay too little money to support my aspirations and financial requirements.

Essentially, I want to be able to look back when I'm 40 and say - 'Well I gave everything my best shot when I could'.

The mid-life crisis is something to be feared.

That is a great Cosby episode!

[DR. BELCH]

--don't get me started on the annoying mindset of "rich witches". These are the kind of girls who basically enjoy flaunting their wealth by buying designer clothes and driviing nice cars (one actually expressed surprise that I buy clothes at Wal-Mart), yet despise themselves so much they go out and fool around with lower-class men they know their fathers will hate in order to get their rocks off. Usually they have a daddy who will demand them to marry some rich Ken doll who can support them, even to the point of telling lower-class men--that being essentially any man who calls for a date who isn't on His List--that he doesn't have a daughter (which cannot be good for a girl's self esteem). They are very social-conscious, always have their eye on the next rung up the ladder, and must forever keep up appearances--to the point that a pregnancy out of wedlock due to one of these lower-class trysts must be either passed off as the Ken doll's, aborted quietly, or, if she's late in her child-bearing years and financially solvent, applauded as independent and forward-thinking (generally this last is reserved for starlets/celebrities).

[Zechs]

I 'm middle middle class and I've been taught money isn't everything. We all have jobs to help pay for things I don't have to have one ie if I loose my job it really won't matter we can still pay for everything but I fel that I should help out. As for wal-mart I was told by someone whos is in the same class I am in that they would never buy clothes form wal-mart my motto is as long as it looks good I'll buy it. It sucks that we here in America still go by classes instead of dropping all thes B.S and geting along as equals.

[Calico]

Money - the bane of my existance.

Growing up we were lower middle class/boderline poor. Anything I got from my parents (including Christmas and birthday presents) I actually felt guilty about. And I missed out on a lot of stuff, including class trips, cars, etc. I even had to rent my prom dress.

I've been making it on my own since I went to college at the age of seventeen (with financial aide). I haven't asked for or received a dime from my folks since then. I don't think they 'owe' me anything and if I want something I know I'd better earn the money for it.

Now my husband's family is rather well-off. He got everything he ever wanted and still does. If I tell him we can't afford something he runs to mommy. Drives me bonkers.

We make pretty good money now, but I've still got that mindset that we can't spend frivolously. He wants, he buys. I don't know if gender has anything to do with it. It's what life, and your parents, teach you.

[Harley]

I'm always a bit nervous about money. And the thought of not being able to pay a bill is something that would not sit well with me. I don't have many places, nor would I feel comfortable with going to anyone for financial help.

My family definitely fit into the poor category when I was younger. My mother, as determined as she was, put herself through college, raised two kids and got us into the middle class category.

So, I've gained a great appreciation for a good work ethic and doing what it takes to keep the lights on and food on the table.

Outside of that, she's always encouraged me to go after my own dreams. But with a realization that those dreams are something to be pursued in conjunction with taking care of the basics.

[Chris Sanders MSX]

Originally posted by DR. BELCH
--don't get me started on the annoying mindset of "rich witches". These are the kind of girls who basically enjoy flaunting their wealth by buying designer clothes and driviing nice cars (one actually expressed surprise that I buy clothes at Wal-Mart),

Feh, Although I'm a guy, I used to do this until I sat back one day and thought about it. Who am I spending my money on ?? Me or them ? Then I thought again, how many girls are really going to want me because I'm wearing designer clothes ? It's about me, and If my clothes look good, I'm not paying 75 dollars for a T-Shirt when I get a perfectly good and stylish one for 20 bucks.

So from that point on I started getting my clothes from K-Mart, Walmart and any where that I went where I saw something taht i thought would look good on me. I buy name-brand from time to time but only if I think it looks good, not because of whose anme is writen on it. As for my car, my mother insisted I have something new because old cars are more hassel than they are worth and we get a Discount at Ford Motor Companies because of my father.

[Chris Sanders MSX]

Originally posted by SJJ
I'm still going to pursue these avenues (as well as looking at getting into acting - it's the stage bug that music has given me) while trying to find a more stable and solid income - possibly through teaching.

I also want to become an actor, I've been bitten by the same bug, my only hope right now is showing up at open casting calls. I was going to try out for a part in the "Fat Albert" Movie but the auditions were on the same day as my ACT's and well...

[The Old Maid]

quote:
(Originally posted by Chris Sanders MSX)
________________________

I'm not going to tell my kids how much money we make.
________________________


To my mind the money coming in is much less a problem than the money going out. The Vanessa Huxtable character is a good example. She knows just enough to be dangerous. If she's a blabbermouth maybe she should be kept out of the loop until she learns self-control, but then maybe she could be cured of her illusions if introduced to the world of rent, groceries, utilities, auto loans, and taxes. If she doesn't learn budgeting then no amount of income will be enough for her.

Call it the "dogs can't climb trees" school of thought. When I left I was told "Minimum wage is nice, but you can't live on it." Well, I knew so little about finance that I didn't know I couldn't do it. So I did it. It was hard, incredibly hard, but I'd made up my mind to never go for help to the people who'd let me down in the past. Their philosophy was that parental money was private, and you would just "know" how to handle money the day the door hit you on the way out. Typical control freak behavior -- keep the kids in the dark, teach them to be helpless ; then any stumble would be a personal failing rather than mere inexperience, and would bring them crawling back. No thanks, that's not for me.

Someone referred me to a charity operating out of the Catholic Church that screened quiet people for low-income housing. That helped, but what really taught me budgeting is -- and this is going to sound hokey -- Sally Struthers. She was doing her patented "teary-eyed voice" on TV, reminding people that if my life was hard, she knew children whose lives were harder. I figured if I couldn't manage a bill that small I'd never survive on my own. So I signed up. Am pleased to report I never stiffed the landlady or Sally. It also taught me comparison shopping ; say, if a secondhand clothing store was good enough for my "kids" it was good enough for me. But I agree with you, whoever said it, when you shop someplace cheap, never, ever, tell anyone ... unless they're poorer than you.

The gender bias I have to put up with is mostly personal rather than financial. But gender bias never affected family finances -- none of us got anything. Good thing I don't want it.

[Weatherman]

My family is decidedly upper-middle class, though from looking at out house, unless all of the used cars are there( 4 are ours, one is going to be junked as soon as we remove sime parts and one we keep for a firned who doesn't have room for it, all are 5 years old or more), you'd probably never guess it. My parents always answered any questions I had about money in full. What they made, where the money went, how I could get my own, ect. Keeping kids in the dark about money is just inviting trouble, and so is only telling them part of the story. Give them the whole story right off the bat, it worked great for me.

[Zechs]

Originally posted by Chris Sanders MSX


Feh, Although I'm a guy, I used to do this until I sat back one day and thought about it. Who am I spending my money on ?? Me or them ? Then I thought again, how many girls are really going to want me because I'm wearing designer clothes ? It's about me, and If my clothes look good, I'm not paying 75 dollars for a T-Shirt when I get a perfectly good and stylish one for 20 bucks.

So from that point on I started getting my clothes from K-Mart, Walmart and any where that I went where I saw something taht i thought would look good on me. I buy name-brand from time to time but only if I think it looks good, not because of whose anme is writen on it. As for my car, my mother insisted I have something new because old cars are more hassel than they are worth and we get a Discount at Ford Motor Companies because of my father. Yeah I feel the same way.I've seen desinger shirts go for as much as $425 a pop. I found that same style for 9$ in wal-mart. This you are jduged by how much money you own crap is Sh##. It's not how much is in your wallet that makes you you it's how much you have inside. You know my mother said the same thing when I mention I was going to buy a used car.

[The Old Maid]

Looks like Toon Zone folks are better-educated about money than most. Give yourself three cheers! :)

Talking about how show business influences perception and status ...

Those of you who're Batman fans may remember a Batman Beyond ep titled "The Eggbaby," in which the class valedictorian (a Black woman) is paired with the class jock (a White man still struggling with middle-school math) for a one-week mock marriage and child-rearing experiment. Basically the Washington Monthly writers were saying, each in their own way, that this scenario is one possible future of the Black family in America.

The first writer (a woman) noted that, in the past, when a Black family had only enough money to send one child to college, they usually sent the daughter rather than the son. They didn't want the daughters to become maids. That's laudable, but the world has changed since then.

What people forget is that just because "it's a man's world" does not make it a Black man's world. Many jobs the undereducated men used to do have been given to machines or illegal aliens now. It's much harder for a Black man with minimal education to find a job that will support a family. And so there are more Black men of college age in the legal system than in the college system. That writer proposed that, unless things change, Black women will find they have two choices : marry their socioeconomic peers outside the race, or marry men who earn too little income to support themselves or their children.

The other writer was a Mr. Mom whose lady is indeed supporting him. He admits to making bad choices -- including having a child before marriage -- but he is doing everything in his power to make amends. Without education or employment, what could he give his family? Time. He cares for their child. And frankly, he's extremely good at it. Still, he worries sometimes if his love is just settling for him until a man she considers her socioeconomic equal comes along. Is that why she won't marry him? He hopes that's not the reason. In his opinion, many men would make good fathers, even if they aren't good breadwinners. But it's hard to be either a breadwinner or a good father, let alone both, until someone gives him a chance.

The Millionaire Next Door/The Millionaire Mind was more concerned with inherited wealth. That tends to be more a White issue, since White small businesses have tended to survive longer than in most ethnic groups. Who gets that money? Well, the way the Baby Boomers teach their children about money, the writers' concensus is, "no one." No one will get it. That is, no one will keep it -- again, unless things change.

A businessman bragged that he'd made his son buy the family business at full price "to teach him the value of hard work and money." Daddy had also taken steps to protect his daughter's wish to remain a stay-at-home mom with his grandchildren. Daddy (who said plainly, "You can never really trust your sons-in-law") had arranged for the family firm to send her a check every year for life.

These goals seem commendable. But looks can be deceiving. Closer inspection revealed that Daughter spent every penny that Hubby, Daddy and Son gave her. She had never learned to budget. Also, Daddy had pulled an Enron on his son. The "business" had no hard assets. It was built on intangibles like reputation and personal knowledge. Daddy had sold the firm to Son because no one else would (or could) buy it. Also, Son could never sell the business, since if a family member stopped running it, it would cease to exist.

As long as I'm putting you all to sleep I might as well give you a really good night's rest. Daddy's behavior would make no sense if I wrote what he actually said and thought. It makes perfect sense, though, in light of yet another book on money : Rich Dad, Poor Dad. That writer explains there are four types of breadwinners :

Type I : You have a job (example, grocery store clerk).

Type II : You own a job (example, a dentist).

Type III : You own a business (example, a McDonald's franchise).

Type IV : You own many businesses and have many income streams (example, stocks & bonds AND real estate).

Basically Daddy thought he was a Type III breadwinner but he's only a Type II. The difference between owning a job and owning a business is that if a Type II stops working, the money stops coming in. A Type III earner can take a long vacation and the money will still come in.

Daddy hosed his children. How smart, how decent is it, to shackle Son to a business he can never sell, and to make Son support his sister for life at the expense of his own family? If Son quits he'll be penniless. He sacrificed his college years in an apprenticeship to Daddy. Can he get that time back? Finally, why does Daughter need three earners to pay her bills for her? And yet this man bragged of himself as a financial role model!

So ... these are the consequences of the Baby Boomers not teaching their kids about money.

Ironically all these approaches come back to one simple theme : Don't judge by appearances. Not others, not your own. Not at all. Not ever.

And here I hear (*happy dance*) that Toon Zone posters are individually and collectively better educated than society as a whole?

Does this mean we'll be running the world?

[atf487]

Mind you, I'm 12, so I don't know if all these points are valid.

My situation:

My parents have never been the kind of people to really tell me anything. I really don't know why, but it seems I'm always off when they talk about important things.

My family can afford most things. We have 3 computers, and a cable internet connection. We also have 2 digital cable boxes. I have to say that while my family's financial situation is good, we always seem to spend our money on things we don't need.

My dad is the main example. Since my Mom is a substitute teacher, she doesn't always have money to spend. My dad gives her around 700 dollars a month to use for spending money. This also includes any clothes we need, groceries (the big thing), haircuts, if something broke, etc. Although this seems like enough, it dwindles fast. My father also refuses to give any more money then that amount, which leads to use cleaning out the cabinets a little to often. He also spends his money all on himself, except for a few occasions. Like for instance : I am 20 dollars short of buying something, and I've never done anything meriting punishment in months. There is no way in hell I'm going to get a little help of 20.00 by my father, unless I work later.

I've grown to accept this easily, yet my friends (who's parents make less money then mine) are sometimes appauled. They ask for games, clothes, anything really, and get it. They even go to Disney World!, and are going to be put through college. My parents are't paying a dime. And they shouldn't.

It's not always how much money you spend, but what you spend it on.

[Weatherman]

I've grown to accept this easily, yet my friends (who's parents make less money then mine) are sometimes appauled. They ask for games, clothes, anything really, and get it. They even go to Disney World!, and are going to be put through college. My parents are't paying a dime. And they shouldn't.



They shouldn't? :confused:


Umm, how exactly do you plan to cover over 30 grand, and that's just for State school, on your own and still have time to actually do your class work? parents do have an obligation to their childeren, not just to themselves, and that includes ensuring that their childeren have the skills to support themselves later. College is a big part of those skills, and I would think that a parent would at least feel some obligation tp help their child in that way.