B:TAS "Heart of Ice" Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

Winner of The World's Finest "Best B:TAS Episode Poll" (website (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/heartofice/)), discuss this classic Batman: The Animated Series episode!


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/heartofice/00.jpg

Episode #014 - Heart of Ice
Original Airdate - September 7th, 1992.

Mr. Freeze, thirsting for revenge against the sleazy CEO who destroyed his life, begins to steal various equipment from GothCorp. Batman's sympathy is with Freeze, but first he has to stop him from using the equipment to destroy a building filled with innocent people in order to carry out his vendetta.

Comments?

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

Truly a classic deserves to be on the top ten

[MILatino]

Originally posted by The Penguin
Tonight at 7:30 p.m. EDT Cartoon Network airs the Batman: The Animated Series episode, Heart of Ice. It is # 2 on Bruce Timm's Top 10.
Excellent. Five stars. Plot, acting, action, emotional.

Only one nitpick...

Where the heck did that jar of chicken soup come from when we saw the utility belt laying flat on the console just moments before?!
:rolleyes:

[TheScarecrow]

This was a classic!!!!

This episode completely made Mr. Freeze into a major league character thanks to Dini giving the character the depth that he was never given before (and he didn't keep saying WILD! after every sentince unlike that one clown from the 60's show, which was a plus).

Bruce Timm's directing is great as well.

Mark Hamill is great as The Joker, and is underrated as the lying corrupt CEO that caused Freeze's condiction. That scene with Bruce at his office really made you hate the guy, and made you actually root for Freeze to off him. He is the real villain of the episode, and Hamill's preformance really made him so.

A few flaws prevent me from going a full ***** on this one, but ****1/2 is near perfect, and the impact that this episode had on the Mr. Freeze character and the rest of the series shouldn't be denied.

[Anubis C. Soundwave]

Drat and doubledrat. I missed this episode.

Grr. I didn't TAPE this episode. (unless it somehow aired at 2:30A during an earlier Toonami RS after ASA...hope against hope.)

GRR. :mad:

[The Penguin]

"I failed you. I wish there were another way for me to say it. I cannot. I can only beg your forgiveness and pray you hear me somehow, someplace... Someplace where a warm hand waits for mine." - Mr. Freeze, Heart of Ice

This is a classic example of an episode that makes you wish more than 5 stars were possible.

Mr. Freeze is just a great tragic villain. He's the "bad guy" but he doesn't seem all that bad, he just wants revenge and has become somewhat consumed by it. This can be seem clearly when he brushes off his frozen henchman—"He should have been more careful." That is one of the best displays of Freeze not having "tears left to shed."

In contrast Batman feels obligated the help the man, even though it means losing Freeze. Alfred was right when he pointed that Jonnie would not have done the same.

I like how this episode tends to leave you guessing at first. You start with the man in darkness talking to a woman in a snowglobe and you just go from there. It isn't until much later you really found out who he is and what he wants.

The ending is just really powerful with Victor giving the speech to Nora in the globe. It's touching and shows more than any other part of the episode the real pain he is in over lost love.

[BeastBoyWonder]

This episode is another GREAT one, like almost all of them on the top tens. Very moving, it made me feel for Fries and basically defined his character for me.

[BrendaBat]

One of my all time faves!! :) ! I believe that Mr.Freeze represents what Bruce could have become if losing his parents had pushed him onto the wrong side of the law.

[murmur]

I feel your pain Anubis, I missed it too. I am a very harsh grader, but I could not deny this episode its 5 stars. It is the best example of what BTAS can do and very much deserves its Emmy. All the above comments are spot on...I don't have much more to add.

[Meow]

*sigh* I hear ya Anubis and murmur. I missed it too. I remember that it was a great episode, but I haven't seen it in such a long time I don't think I should vote.

I know for a FACT that this episode's in the 4 to 5 star rating. Probably 5, but like I said...haven't seen it in a while, so I don't feel right rating it as a 5.

[James Harvey]

As everyone knows, this is my favorite episode. Even though there are a flaw or two here and there, I still gave it a perfect 5. I don't care if the bat-symbol is inverted for a moment, or the animation isn't 100% perfect. To me - this is what made everyone stand up and notice Batman: TAS. Simply the best this show has to offer.

[Caped Crusader]

Originally posted by TheScarecrow
A few flaws prevent me from going a few ***** on this one, but ****1/2 is near perfect, and the impact that this episode had on the Mr. Freeze character and the rest of the series shouldn't be denied.


I gave this episode ****1/2 as well. I think it's an excellent episode, but the flaws--like the colors on Batman's bat-symbol getting mixed up and Batman taking the chicken soup and the video out of his belt, after we clearly see it lying down flat--keep me from giving it a perfect 5.


BTW, I've posted the creators' comments for the people who weren't able to catch this episode:



Title: HEART OF ICE

Rank: Number 2

Here, the creators took a minor player from the Batman mythology and crafted him into one of the most arresting and successful characters of the series. In Mr. Freeze they created a genuinely tragic and sympathetic villain.

Series Producers: Paul Dini, Alan Burnett, Bruce Timm

[James Harvey]

This episode reruns tonight on YTV so I thought I'd just bump this up again. Once again. my absolute favorite episode. Everything the series wanted to accomplish (great story, great characters, great animation) is all accomplished in this episode. I know there is a part or two where the animation jumps or the (*sigh*) symbol is inverted but it doesn't matter - this episode is virtually flawless.

[DKstormyknight]

HEART OF ICE was the first time I had ever seen Mr. Freeze, and ever since then I have liked him. It was a great episode!!

[Jason Hall]

5 Stars for sure from me!

And anyone who's also a big fan of this episode should definitely check out my story in Batman: Gotham Adventures #51. If you haven't read it yet, go pick up a copy -- I really think you'll enjoy it! :)

Thanks!

-- Jason H. :bosko:
--------------------------------------------
Upcoming Writing Projects Include:
Batman: Gotham Adventures #51 (on sale now! :D )
Star Wars Tales #13 ("Children of the Force")
Dark Horse Maverick: Happy Endings TP
- (featuring the story "Pistolwhip Presents: January")
Pistolwhip: The Yellow Menace GN
----------------
Visit the Pistolwhip Comics Electronic Headquarters!
http://www.pistolwhipcomics.com

[BeastBoyWonder]

ey yo listen to this man he knows what he's talkin about...both "Heart of Ice" and Gotham Adventures 51 are off the hook.

[Jason Hall]

Originally posted by ragingdrummerboy
ey yo listen to this man he knows what he's talkin about...both "Heart of Ice" and Gotham Adventures 51 are off the hook.

Thanks for the compliment! I'm glad you enjoyed B:GA #51!

-- Jason H. :bosko:
--------------------------------------------
Upcoming Writing Projects Include:
Batman: Gotham Adventures #51 (on sale now! :D )
Star Wars Tales #13 ("Children of the Force")
Dark Horse Maverick: Happy Endings TP
- (featuring the story "Pistolwhip Presents: January")
Pistolwhip: The Yellow Menace GN
----------------
Visit the Pistolwhip Comics Electronic Headquarters!
http://www.pistolwhipcomics.com

[Squall]

Like most other Dini/Timm fans, I love this episode, and like everyone else has already said, I think this is some of the best that B:TAS has to offer!

I only have a couple of minor complaints though:

Why didn't Mr. Freeze just completely incase Batman in ice and let him freeze to death? Also, once he had Batman at his mercy, hanging upside down with his legs buried in ice, why didn't he quickly unmask him?

As for the chicken soup issue... I always thought that Batman kept the chicken soup in a 'pocket' in his costume, not on the belt. :p

[Spider-Man]

Such a great episode. I can easily overlook some of the small animation mistakes to see the true gem - a flawless script. I don't see a single thing wrong with the story and it show sin the final product. I've recently had the chance to view 'Sub-Zero' for the first time and absolutely fell in love with the Freeze chatacter - a great, flawed character who you can't help but root for sometimes. I bet some of us were rooting for Freeze to get his final revenge on Boyle, I know I was. A friend was able to lend me all the Freeze related comics and issues (even B:GA #51, Jason!) and I was just floored with the character. I consider myself a Batman fan, but this character just does it for me, and this episode more than proves that. While he's not Batman's ultimate villian, he is certainly one of the coolest (pun :)). :cool:

[Mr. Freeze]

I agree. While Heart of Ice may not have been perfect by any means, we did get to see a bit more of what makes Freeze ticks - especially his driven obsession with his wife. I would've been nice, though, if we saw some quiet scenes with Freeze and his wife before the accident.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


Originally posted by Squall
Why didn't Mr. Freeze just completely incase Batman in ice and let him freeze to death? Also, once he had Batman at his mercy, hanging upside down with his legs buried in ice, why didn't he quickly unmask him?

'Cuz encasing Batman in ice and killing him would end the show after only 3 episodes, silly :p. The "story reason" is probably that there's still a difference between being cold-blooded and being a murderer. Freeze wasn't interested in killing Batman because that wouldn't have furthered his cause.

As for unmasking Batman, that would end the show after only 3 episodes :p. Just kidding...about all I can offer is that Gotham is a big city, and Batman can be any really big white guy in that city -- the odds that unmasking would reveal someone the unmasker would recognize are pretty low. True, WE know he's really Bruce Wayne, but I don't know that someone like Freeze would think of that. It's a pretty lame reason, I know...

Also, as with the above, Freeze is only interested in revenge on Ferris Boyle. Batman is just an obstacle that needs to be removed as efficiently as possible. Freeze probably just didn't care who was under the mask.

-- Ed/Ace

[Stu]

BUMP. :)

One of my favourites for reasons stated above, better than I can make them come out. That's what I love about this show, the way they retooled everyone from the comics, some failed like Bane, and some succeeded perfectly like Mr. Freeze and The Joker.

While not my favourite episode, it easily makes it into the top 5, behind only, On Leather Wings, Make 'Em Laugh, Over The Edge and Second Chance.

[James]

Like most other Dini/Timm fans, I love this episode, and like everyone else has already said, I think this is some of the best that B:TAS has to offer!

I only have a couple of minor complaints though:

Why didn't Mr. Freeze just completely incase Batman in ice and let him freeze to death? Also, once he had Batman at his mercy, hanging upside down with his legs buried in ice, why didn't he quickly unmask him?

As for the chicken soup issue... I always thought that Batman kept the chicken soup in a 'pocket' in his costume, not on the belt. :p

I don't think Freeze has the slightest interest in who Batman is or even killing him. Remember Freeze is beyond obesessed - all he wants is the guy out of the way and then he will continue with his plan. In HOI, Freeze only seems interested in killing IF cornered. He underestimates Batman and assumes that just by keeping him hung up he won't be able to get involved with the final stages of the plan. IMO anyway.

Chicken Soup..? Maybe the container is collapsable... I dunno.. just animated bigger than it should be so we can see it clearly on the screen..

[James Harvey]

I don't think Freeze has the slightest interest in who Batman is or even killing him. Remember Freeze is beyond obesessed - all he wants is the guy out of the way and then he will continue with his plan. In HOI, Freeze only seems interested in killing IF cornered. He underestimates Batman and assumes that just by keeping him hung up he won't be able to get involved with the final stages of the plan.

I totally agree. Freeze has no interest in who Batman is, and assumed that he'd be out of the way for the confrontation between Boyle and Freeze. It's only when Batman comes between him and his goal does he want him killed or incapacitated. That's why Freeze didn't bother to really go after Batman during the initial confrontations. He just didn't care. He had one objective in mind, and he was determined to see it through.

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

One of the best episodes of the series, in fact, this was the second episode I ever seen way back in '92. The first one I saw was "The Cat & The Claw" Part 1, which didn't rerun until the next Saturday, but Monday-Friday had some other Batman episodes to catch. I remember how fasinated I was, I also remember my dad didn't like the show, but after a while, he thought it was pretty cool. I'll always love this episode...and I'll always remember that one line---"Chicken Soup." 5 star episode.

[screw on head]

this was the first episode of the series i'd ever seen. i was too young to fully appreciate the milestone this episode was, since i was only watching 'cause... it was batman. ironicly the first episode i would ever see was written by my favorite writer & directed by my favorite artist.

the great thing about this episode is i actually felt cold at times during it.
little things like seeing the characters' breath and batman having a cold, all are great little subtlties. very atmospheric.

very cool episode

[Carrieattheprom]

Saw this one on my dvd. I have to agree with what was said on the comentary: what was up with all those cameras Fries had on himself? And who went back and edited it into proper sequence? Other than that, this episode rocked.

[Fone Bone]

A classic. I won't say it's the best DCAU episode ever but it's definately in Batman's top five.

Micheal Ansara cannot get enough credit for the gravitas he lends Mr. Freeze. A perfect voice and I'd hate to think what would happen to the character when he passes on. (I guess The Batman will be the first test.) And no offense to Clive Reville but this episode wouldn't have nearly been as good if Efram Zimbalist Jr. wasn't voicing Alfred.

Kevin Conroy was still getting his footing here but did an admirable job. And can you believe Mark Hamill voices both Ferris Boyle AND JL's Solomon Grundy? THAT'S range baby.

The animation in this episode was beautiful. I don't see why b.t. beats himself up over the inverse bat symbol. I hadn't even noticed it until someone pointed it out. But, yeah, Victor Freeze's editting equipment must've been top-notch to go back and forth on different camera angles AFTER he was incapacatated. Now that's commitment to a filmaker's craft, editting together a snuff film that no-one is ever supposed to see.:D

The beginning and end with the snowglobe was just beautiful. Lyrical and poigniant in a way few Batman episodes are (Save Tyger, Tyger). A pretty much perfect episode. *****.

[Harlequinade]

Definetly a five star episode and worthy of being dubbed the best B:TAS episode of all time. After seeing this episode for the first time my view on Mr. Freeze totally changed. This episode makes you feel so sorry for Freeze and that power is what I believe makes this episode one of the best.

The animation and color is superb except for the backwards bat symbol but it's not enough to make the whole episode bad. The action is very well done and Dini does a great job with this episode's story. Seeing what truly made Victor Fries become Mr. Freeze made me feel even more sympathetic for him and the fact that Batman catches the cold and uses his chicken soup to defeat Freeze is a very interesting way to do it instead of just Batman beating the bad guy to a pulp(not like he could cause of Freeze's suit)

Overall, even though it has a few minor flaws this episode is spectacular and no matter how many times I watch it gets better and better.:D

[The Penguin]

Tonight at 12 midnight ET, Boomerang airs the Batman: The Animated Series episode, Heart of Ice. If you do not have Boomerang, you are encouraged to follow along on disc 2 of your Batman: The Animated Series, Vol. 1 (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=115616) DVD set.


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/heartofice/00r.jpgEpisode #014 - Heart of Ice
Original Airdate - September 7th, 1992.

Mr. Freeze, thirsting for revenge against the sleazy CEO who destroyed his life, begins to steal various equipment from GothCorp. Batman's sympathy is with Freeze, but first he has to stop him from using the equipment to destroy a building filled with innocent people in order to carry out his vendetta.

Comments?

[Batman Fan]

What else can I say about this episode, it will go down in DCAU history, it is a masterpiece of animation. There's nothing wrong with this episode, I kinda like the inversed Bat-signal, it's different.

This has it all, an great and emotional story mixed with a sympathetic character you can't help but feel sorry for, amazing animation that sticks out so well, touching dialogue, good amount of action, great villan, and chicken soup. Oh, and great voice actors for Mr. Freeze and Batman, seeing Batman with a cold, Kevin Conroy did a great job making it sound real.

A classic!

*****

[JLfan4life]

after all these years, i still love this episode to death!!!!

*****

[Joker1238]

Wonder if KEven had a REAL cold, and they used it as a excuss for Batman to have a cold lol.

[Golgo13]

Like most other Dini/Timm fans, I love this episode, and like everyone else has already said, I think this is some of the best that B:TAS has to offer!

I only have a couple of minor complaints though:

Why didn't Mr. Freeze just completely incase Batman in ice and let him freeze to death? Also, once he had Batman at his mercy, hanging upside down with his legs buried in ice, why didn't he quickly unmask him?

As for the chicken soup issue... I always thought that Batman kept the chicken soup in a 'pocket' in his costume, not on the belt. :p
Perhaps Mr. Freeze felt some sympathy for Batman because he actually went to the trouble of discovering how Mr. Freeze was betrayed by Doyle.

I really wished they wrote more episodes on this villain for the series. There is one other episode, but it didn't feel like enough. See "Deep Freeze" and then the movie "Sub-Zero" for continuity.

I'd also like to say shame on The Batman for turning such a tragic and sympathetic character into a common jewel thief.

[Caswin]

"This is how I'll always remember you - surrounded by winter, forever young, forever beautiful. Rest well, my love. The monster who took you from me is about to learn that revenge is a dish... best served cold."

I finally saw this episode on DVD. After following the progress of the polls and seeing this at the end of the menu, the buildup was tremendous. And it lives up to the hype. Plot. Emotion. Lots of emotion. One of the best fights of the series. And Mr. Freeze's voice, beautifully done, distorted, cold in every sense of the word. One thing... why did he still sound like that in his jail cell?

5/5

[JSmith]

Coupla questions about this classic episode. First, how did the tape get from the exploding lab to the classified files of GothCorp? Secondly, why in the world would Mr. Boyle keep such an incriminating piece of evidence around? There is no statute of limitations on murder. If this tape ever turned up, Boyle would be headed for the chair. I suppose you could argue that he didn't know of it's existence, but is that really plausible?? And I guess Nixon did keep the missing portions of the Watergate tapes. Maybe power does make you feel like you are above the law......

[nate3po]

Was any part of this episode inspired by Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back? I noticed that Batman had soaked one of the henchmen in a chemical bath in a similar way that Luke Skywalker had been placed in those bacta tanks after being rescued from the cold. Then I realized that Mark Hamill was in this episode and thought of it as a coincidence. But then I realzed that later Mr. Freeze had hung Batman upside down with his feet incased in the ice similar to the way Luke was in Empire Strikes Back. So were these two things at all meant as some kind of nod to ESB? I don't think that Hamill's involvment with this episode would have necessarily had any correlation to any possible Star Wars references seeing as he had been involved with them already as the Joker (in case you thought I didn't know that).
Oh and JSmith, I could be wrong but I'm guessing most surveillance tapes would not be recorded and stored in the same place as where the camera is. And I think that perhaps according to the letter of the law, Boyle didn't murder Friese but was just trying to remove him from the company when the accident occured. Fries did have a gun on him and it could be argued that even though he is a "bad guy" he probably didn't intend for the accident but was trying to subdue him. That's my guess.

[Cortez2301]

This episode is really good and I loved it.Its not one of my top 10 in the DCAU but it still is great.nate3po you have a good eye for those 2 possile references.

[M.O.D.O.K.]

Even as a child, I always loved this episode. When other kids at my age liked the "Batman saves the day" story, Mr. Freeze always intrigued me. He was a character that, even as a small child, I could sympathize. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this opinion.

This episode changed Mr. Freeze's origin, from an angry bald man in a spacesuit, to a grieving scientist, with a broken heart. If you look past the clunky animation, you'll find an animation classic.

IINFINITY/5

[Toddman]

I don't think that Hamill's involvment with this episode would have necessarily had any correlation to any possible Star Wars references seeing as he had been involved with them already as the Joker (in case you thought I didn't know that).



Nice catches on the Star Wars similarities. If there was ever any intentional homage to ESB, it's never been publicly acknowledged by the Timm, Dini, et al.

It's possible that the imagery of the original Star Wars movies is so engrained in the pop culture subconsciousness that seeing a guy hanging upside down in ice or a hot chemical-bath cure just seem "common place" in a genre story about snow and ice. For example, I've never noticed the coincidence myself, and don't recall anybody ever bringing it up in the past, either.

And for the record, "Heart of Ice" was indeed Mark Hamill's first voice over work for BTAS. It was after he recorded that episode that he was brought in to replace Tim Curry's VO work as the Joker and became the permanant VA for the role.


Toddman

[Shadowmask]

Magnificent. The best "tragic villain" story in the DCAU, and there have been a lot of good ones. Freeze's lines are beautifully written - poetic, I'd go so far as to say - and Ansara's voice work brings heartrending humanity to the character. And the series' social conscience is in fine display here, with the real twenty-four-carat scumbag being the murderous Boyle with his stunningly amoral candor to Bruce Wayne. There are lots of five-star, A+ episodes of B:TAS, but this one truly is tops.

"You beg? In my nightmares, I see my Nora behind the glass, begging to me with frozen eyes. How I've longed to see that look frozen on you, Boyle."

[nate3po]

And for the record, "Heart of Ice" was indeed Mark Hamill's first voice over work for BTAS. It was after he recorded that episode that he was brought in to replace Tim Curry's VO work as the Joker and became the permanant VA for the role.


Toddman
At first I wasn't if this was Mark Hamill's first voice over role because this is episode 14 in prod. order and Christmas with the Joker was episode 2. Plus in Christmas w/ the joker Clive something or another voiced Alfred at the time but by Heart of Ice Efrem had already been recast as the new Alfred. So it would make sense to think that Mark had done the Joker first. But according to the commentary I guess he auditioned for this role first. Does anybody know how that happened. Did Tim Curry actually record some episodes only to have the producers decide to rerecord the episodes with Hamill's voice?

[Toddman]

At first I wasn't if this was Mark Hamill's first voice over role because this is episode 14 in prod. order and Christmas with the Joker was episode 2. Plus in Christmas w/ the joker Clive something or another voiced Alfred at the time but by Heart of Ice Efrem had already been recast as the new Alfred. So it would make sense to think that Mark had done the Joker first. But according to the commentary I guess he auditioned for this role first. Does anybody know how that happened. Did Tim Curry actually record some episodes only to have the producers decide to rerecord the episodes with Hamill's voice?


Yeah, they decided to keep Clive Revill's Alfred audio, but ended up replacing Tim Curry's Joker all together. From what I've heard and read, the producers were pleased with Revill's performance, but he was unavailable to continue on in the role, so they had to recast.

But for the Joker, it sounds like they wanted a different kind of performance that Curry wasn't able to give them, so when they recast Hamill in the role, they decided to go back and re-record all of Curry's dialogue.

I think it was some time last year Bruce Timm was the guest of honor at a retrospective of his career in animation that a never-aired version of "Joker's Favor" was screened featuring Curry's original audio track. One of the members of the forum here attended the event and commented on it, but I can't remember who that was.


Toddman

[ShadowStar]

Is it just me, or does the DVD transfer on the volume 1 set have some colour bleeding and some... interlacing or whatever it's called (I don't know the name of it, but when I watch the episode on TV the lines around character frames or objects are slightly distorted...).

[Dean Cain]

Somebody explain this to me.

Did Batman put that massive thermos in his utility belt? Is there any universe in which that makes sense?

I mean, there's a lot of stuff I can look past. The thermos kind of breaks physics, though. Not a big deal, I'm just wondering if anybody can explain how that makes sense.

[Michael24]

I always thought that was kinda strange. I mean, wasn't that uncomfortable driving the Batmobile with that thermos wedged between his back and the seat? LOL!

Kinda like in "Joker's Wild" when there's a close up of a grappling gun ejecting from the front of his utility belt, but it would only be possible if Batman had some kind of curved alcove in his waist a few inches deep for the compartment to sit back in. :D

[Mr. Anime]

It's just comic book physics.

[Maxie Zeus]

Little-known fact: Batman is an accomplished D&D player (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=984). :D

[Michael24]

Little-known fact: Batman is an accomplished D&D player (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=984). :D

Haha! OMG, that was hilarious. I'm still cracking up! :D

[Toddman]

Did Batman put that massive thermos in his utility belt? Is there any universe in which that makes sense?

I mean, there's a lot of stuff I can look past. The thermos kind of breaks physics, though. Not a big deal, I'm just wondering if anybody can explain how that makes sense.

It's funny because the whole thing wouldn't be nearly as obvious if Freeze hadn't confiscated the belt in the previous scene. It's painfully obvious that we're dealing with "comic-book physics" (and "bat-utility-belt physics" in general) when the belt is shown limply hanging before Batman recovers it.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/heartofice/21.jpg


Toddman

[Ed Liu]

The thermos was never on his utility belt. Batman pads his trunks.

If you never say that you heard that from me, I'll never tell anyone that you just looked up at that screengrab to check :p.

Either that, or it's the same rule at work that lets security camera footage have multiple angles that are neatly spliced together for maximum dramatic effect. I think both of these inconsistencies were pointed out in the commentary track on the DVD.

-- Ed

[Toddman]

The thermos was never on his utility belt. Batman pads his trunks.

If you never say that you heard that from me, I'll never tell anyone that you just looked up at that screengrab to check :p.


Who looked up what screengrab just to check? That happens to be the image I used on the front of my Christmas cards this year...;)


Either that, or it's the same rule at work that lets security camera footage have multiple angles that are neatly spliced together for maximum dramatic effect. I think both of these inconsistencies were pointed out in the commentary track on the DVD.

-- Ed

And neither one of those laps in logic prevent "Heart of Ice" from being arguably the best BTAS episode ever made.:)






Toddman

[DerekPowers]

The thermos was never on his utility belt. Batman pads his trunks.

If you never say that you heard that from me, I'll never tell anyone that you just looked up at that screengrab to check :p.

Either that, or it's the same rule at work that lets security camera footage have multiple angles that are neatly spliced together for maximum dramatic effect. I think both of these inconsistencies were pointed out in the commentary track on the DVD.

-- Ed
Im glad they took liberties w/ the security camera. Or else we would have gotten something like in "Question Authority", which I thought was a bad choice. 1 minute on Huntress, 1 minute of Luthor and Sup's, 1 minute on Question, it felt like an eternity and it wasnt interesting to look at.

Plus, you can make alittle sense of it. Victor had a cam set up, maybe there were a couple security cams in the room, you know, its not that big a deal.

Now the chicken soup in the utility belt, that i cant explain. Thats just one of those things, like people have been saying, its "comic book" logic. Its definately forgivable, especially for that episode.

[Michael24]

When it comes to the "edited security camera" footage in cartoons (and movies, for that matter), I always assumed it was more for the viewer's benefit. Like, it's presented that way to stay interesting for us viewers, while the characters simply see a static shot of the event. :)

[Ed Liu]

Who looked up what screengrab just to check? That happens to be the image I used on the front of my Christmas cards this year...;)

I meant that readers would see my comment about Batman stuffing his trunks and then check him out in the screengrab that you put into your post.

OK, it was a crummy joke on top of a crummy joke that I had to explain. The Joker would be so disappointed in me.


And neither one of those laps in logic prevent "Heart of Ice" from being arguably the best BTAS episode ever made.:)

Oh, I would never want to suggest that they do. For great shows, minor flaws can be blown off. Everybody makes mistakes. For crappy shows, minor flaws just make a bad thing worse. BTAS was definitely a great show, and I still love "Heart of Ice."

-- Ed

[Wolf Boy2]

I meant that readers would see my comment about Batman stuffing his trunks and then check him out in the screengrab that you put into your post.
I got the joke, though I would argue that Batman is so masculine that the soup wouldn't fit.:D

To be honest, I never even noticed about the soup. Maybe it was somewhere else, like in the car. After breaking out of the ice Batman ran back to the car to get the soup.

[Toddman]

After breaking out of the ice Batman ran back to the car to get the soup.

He probably checked his voice mail messages and picked up his dry cleaning, too.


Toddman

[BonyT]

It's just comic book physics.Precisely that.

... In real world physics, nothing of greater bulk than a slip of paper could ever fit into that ridiculously impractical BTAS utility belt.

And while we're on the subject (sort of) -- on top of that, it's bright yellow. YELLOW, for cryin' out loud. You want to talk practical? The purported "practical" function of the yellow oval around the Bat symbol is to serve as a target to draw gunfire to the one part of Batman that he can armor, his chest; so what's the practical reasoning for a yellow utility belt? To draw gunfire to his groin?

(Even with the thermos stuffed in there, offering a little extra protection, Ed, that's still not a very good plan :p )

But I digress. [/ASIDE].

"Heart of Ice" is unquestionably a classic episode -- and any minor "flaws" are easily overlooked.

[Wolf Boy2]

He probably checked his voice mail messages and picked up his dry cleaning, too.


Toddman
Nah, he's got that stuff on his utility belt.

(how else do you think he changes back to Bruce Wayne?)

[Alph]

I always thought he could store things in pockets under his cape. That's what it looks like sometimes.

[DisneyBoy]

The thermos was never on his utility belt. Batman pads his trunks.

Aww...poor insecure Bats.

I got the joke, though I would argue that Batman is so masculine that the soup wouldn't fit.

Um....masculine isn't the word I'd use to describe larger genitals on a man any more than I'd use feminine to describe larger genitals on a woman.

And neither one of those laps in logic prevent "Heart of Ice" from being arguably the best BTAS episode ever made.

DIS. A. GREE.

(or actually, I guess I do agree, since you said "arguably". Now, I will argue LOL)

I voted Over the Edge in the B:TAS Anniversary poll of a few years back, and I stand by my vote. It's flawless. This episode has too many problems to be considered the best ever. Show it to someone who doesn't care a hoot about Batman, and they'll laugh about the obvious inconsistancies. That's a fact that can't be overlooked. Chicken soup, camera angles and an inverted Bat symbol bring this episode down hard. And even if those problems weren't there, the animation still ain't that hot.

Don't flame me. :p

[Silly McGooses]

Dude...if this sort of thing bugs you, you probably should stop watching cartoons. Cuz it only gets a lot worse.

[BonyT]

You know, honestly though (despite my tongue-in-cheek rant about the yellow utility belt :p ), I have kind of a hard time really understanding this impulse/near-compulsion on the part of some to find "rational" explanations for things like where the thermos goes, or (in a recent thread that got a lot of posts) how Phantasm seems to disappear "supernaturally" into her mist. You guys do realize that the creators of these cartoons most likely never give two thoughts to any of this stuff, right? For them, it's simple: The thermos can just disappear behind Batman's back, with no consideration of any further explanation, simply because they need it to. They give nary a thought to pockets in Batman's cape or Andrea being a "meta" -- and they don't aim for us to, either. They're simply operating within the leeway afforded them by the accepted conventions of their medium. No rationale beyond that needs be sought; it's fruitless.

[Wolf Boy2]

I voted Over the Edge in the B:TAS Anniversary poll of a few years back, and I stand by my vote. It's flawless. This episode has too many problems to be considered the best ever. Show it to someone who doesn't care a hoot about Batman, and they'll laugh about the obvious inconsistancies. That's a fact that can't be overlooked. Chicken soup, camera angles and an inverted Bat symbol bring this episode down hard. And even if those problems weren't there, the animation still ain't that hot.
Been there, done that. Watched it with a room full of college guys (who watch anime like Cowboy Bebop) and they litterally laughed at the episode. They picked out EVERY flaw and complained about how dated and corny the show was (they actually compared it to Voltron!). However, when those same guys watched Over the Edge ... the room was silent. Arguably the best story and best animation of the series. They noticed. I wasn't a TZ member when that poll took place, but when I read about it in 2005 I was dissapointed that Over the Edge didnt win.



I got the joke, though I would argue that Batman is so masculine that the soup wouldn't fit.

Um....masculine isn't the word I'd use to describe larger genitals on a man any more than I'd use feminine to describe larger genitals on a woman.
No! Batman is the essence of MANHOOD. He is my hero and I know he is the largest in the universe! Don't shatter my predetermined notions about the Bat! He is my Apollo, he can do no wrong!

**Wolf Boy pauses for a moment, re-reads what he just typed and ponders his sexuality. Thoroughly horrified, he rushes from the computer and takes five showers, does 50 pushups, eats a pound of raw meat, watches his entire collection of John Wayne movies and vows not to shave for a year.**

[DisneyBoy]

Aaaaand Wolf Boy gets a high five for saving me from having to respond to Silly's post :)

[Silly McGooses]

Aaaaand Wolf Boy gets a high five for saving me from having to respond to Silly's post :)

What you talk? He didn't reference what I said.

Also, my post on the last page was replying to the o.p., if you thought I was talking about your post above it.

[Toddman]

And neither one of those laps in logic prevent "Heart of Ice" from being arguably the best BTAS episode ever made.

DIS. A. GREE.

(or actually, I guess I do agree, since you said "arguably". Now, I will argue LOL)

I voted Over the Edge in the B:TAS Anniversary poll of a few years back, and I stand by my vote. It's flawless. This episode has too many problems to be considered the best ever. Show it to someone who doesn't care a hoot about Batman, and they'll laugh about the obvious inconsistancies. That's a fact that can't be overlooked. Chicken soup, camera angles and an inverted Bat symbol bring this episode down hard. And even if those problems weren't there, the animation still ain't that hot.

Don't flame me. :p

Better put on your asbestos underwear, DB....


Just kidding. I too would rate "Over The Edge" far superior to "Heart of Ice" (and that's how I voted in the 10th Anniversary poll, too). Truthfully, "Ice" isn't even my favorite "classic style" BTAS episode.

However, it's still definitely considered by many hard core fans to be their personal favorite (obviously, or it wouldn't have won the poll and been chosen for audio commentary on the first DVD volume), and that's why I included the disclaimer before.

And even though it's not my all-time favorite, I also rate it very highly, and I feel that the episode rises to a level of excellence despite the inconsistencies you pointed out...

As Michael24 mentioned, the edited security camera footage could be viewed as an artistic choice rather than a blunder. Besides, like DerekPowers said, is the alternative in "Question Authority" really a better solution? And while the inverted bat-symbol can be mildly distracting, to me it's no worse than the front of Batman's cape "slipping" over the front of the emblem on his chest, which happened throughout the series.

I think the only weakness in the episode that you pointed out that I could understand really detracting from someone's viewing enjoyment is the issue with the thermos of chicken soup (and isn't that what we're all here to talk about anyway?)

I think the idea that Batman is carrying the thermos on his person is easy enough to be overlooked until he's separated from his belt and the soup magically reappears. Again, I didn't find that to be so distracting that it forced me to suddenly forget the sympathetic tragedy of the story's antagonist or the impressive story-driven pace of the previous 21 minutes. That's especially true when viewing the episode for the first time. The "thermos dilemma" is more apparent during repeated viewings. I recognize that makes it no less of a valid criticism, but in my mind it does weaken it's relevancy to the sum strengths and weaknesses of the episode.

As for the level of animation itself, well by now I guess I shouldn't expect you and I to agree on what we consider good animation, but I think "Heart of Ice" is one of the better animated episodes in the entire run of the series (just as I would highly rate all of the work done by Spectrum on BTAS).


Toddman

[Wolf Boy2]

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but my favorite old school BTAS episodes are the gangster episodes. Yes, I did criticize them in another post for having to many film noir cliches. And I admit, they often seemed like a bit of a joke. But in my mind, that's what Batman is. A vigilante on the cold streets, combating the gangs and killers. Also, some of those episodes pulled off some really adult material like the murder of Robin's parents, Rupert Thorne's surgery (and references to his having been shot), Arnie Stromwell's brother getting hit by a train and the entire origin story of Two-Face.

Those episodes weren't "adult" in the overly violent sense, but in the fact that they dealt with mature and realistic themes. One problem I had with "Superman: Doomsday" was that while it had adult-level violence, the story of a hulking monster rampaging through Metropolis was not mature at all. "Robin's Reckoning" or "Paging the Crime Doctor" had less violence, but were genually more mature. "A Bullet for Bullock" was another good example, as was "Shadow of the Bat."

I also love the subtle continuity, how the same gangsters reappeared and continued their roles, however small. Like Arnold Stromwell in "Robin's Reckoning" whose arc later came full circle in "It's Never too Late." It all reminded me of The Long Halloween and Dark Victory from the comics, especially with Rupert Thorne filling the Carmine Falcone role.

TNBA handled gang crime pretty well in "You Scratch my Back" with the South American gun runners. I wish TNBA had a little bit more of gang/street crime, but I guess we cant have everything.

When I think of old BTAS, that's what comes to mind, not Heart of Ice.

[DisneyBoy]

Also, my post on the last page was replying to the o.p., if you thought I was talking about your post above it.

Okay. My mistake :)

Better put on your asbestos underwear, DB....

What makes you think I ever take them off? :anime: These here are dangerous parts for an opinionated guy like me...

And even though it's not my all-time favorite, I also rate it very highly, and I feel that the episode rises to a level of excellence despite the inconsistencies you pointed out...

It definitely does.

I think the only weakness in the episode that you pointed out that I could understand really detracting from someone's viewing enjoyment is the issue with the thermos of chicken soup (and isn't that what we're all here to talk about anyway?)

Indeed. That crazy Dini.

As for the level of animation itself, well by now I guess I shouldn't expect you and I to agree on what we consider good animation, but I think "Heart of Ice" is one of the better animated episodes in the entire run of the series (just as I would highly rate all of the work done by Spectrum on BTAS).

I don't remember what your stance is. Spectrum + TMS = Better than Dong Yang? Ahhh, bygones. You write elloquently and intelligently. *bows*

Robin's Reckoning" or "Paging the Crime Doctor" had less violence, but were genually more mature.

True dat.

I also love the subtle continuity, how the same gangsters reappeared and continued their roles, however small.

Absolutely.

[ShadowStar]

Um... please forgive me, but something about "Heart of Ice" feels so plain, and it prevents me from calling the episode one of the very best. It could be the chicken soup. It could be the absence of Shirley Walker. It could be the annoying Ferris Boyle. I don't know what it is...

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Show it to someone who doesn't care a hoot about Batman, and they'll laugh about the obvious inconsistancies. That's a fact that can't be overlooked.
It is? I've shown this to several people who don't give a hoot about Batman and they loved it; got them interested in the series.

And even if those problems weren't there, the animation still ain't that hot.
What flaws are there in the animation besides the inverted Bat-symbol? The scene in which the Bat-mobile swerves over the ice and keeps perfect model consistency even in its reflection is a sure sign that the episode's animation is excellent. 'Over the Edge' still may have better animation, but I could easily pull out a few nitpicks along the lines of the chicken soup and camera angles.

And this is still the best episode ever.

[DerekPowers]

What flaws are there in the animation besides the inverted Bat-symbol? The scene in which the Bat-mobile swerves over the ice and keeps perfect model consistency even in its reflection is a sure sign that the episode's animation is excellent.

Yes, I agree that the animation in this episode is very solid. Its nice, not much to complain about. BTAS has seen better, but this ep is very nice to look at.

The funny thing is I NEVER noticed the inverted Bat-symbol untill people on this board started mentioning it, and i've watched that episode countless times.

What always bothered me was when Bats is hanging upside down from that big icicle, the line on the ice bordering Bat's feet is just squiggling and not consistant. That always bothered me, especially as a kid for some reason, but no one else ever mentions that.

And since everyone keeps insisting this is the best ep, I too do not think that, just for the record. I love this episode, BUT I think "Two-Face part 1" is the best episode, and there a few others from the original series that i'd rank above this one. Im even torn on which Freeze episode I like better, HOI or "Deep Freeze". I actually think DF has better animation, or if not better, more interesting to look at.

[AlienX]

When I first watched I thought it was awful but I rethought about it and watched it again it was a fine episode not the perfect episode everyone made it out ot be but a great one non the less it really just shows freeze trying to get revenge on his wife it was well done .

[GL's Light]

4.5 stars - a great episode. Michael Ansara's voice performance, and the sound tweaking done to it, add to the episode's effectiveness immensely. The title has a nice twist to it in that one immediately thinks it's Mr. Freeze who has the heart of ice - what with his quest for revenge and his cold, closed off, almost robotic face and voice - but Mr. Freeze is actually motivated by great depths of emotion, while the true heart of ice belongs to Ferris Boyle.

As for where Batman kept the chicken soup, well, that just doesn't bother me. It could have been in a pouch in his cape, or it could have been in the magically fathomless depths of his utility belt (he must have got Dr. Fate to cast a spell on his utility belt so that it operates like Dr Who's TARDIS :D).

On the DVD commentary Bruce Timm says that he noticed the inverted colors on the bat symbol in post-production but he decided not to have it fixed because it reminded him of the old Filmation shows where Batman's bat symbol quite frequently had inverted colors.

My one nitpick with the episode, and it's one that Bruce Timm owns up to, is the security camera footage that has multiple camera angles and that's edited together. I wouldn't have noticed the inverted bat symbol if Timm hadn't pointed it out on the commentary track, but I certainly noticed the security camera issue.

[Silly McGooses]

My one nitpick with the episode, and it's one that Bruce Timm owns up to, is the security camera footage that has multiple camera angles and that's edited together. I wouldn't have noticed the inverted bat symbol if Timm hadn't pointed it out on the commentary track, but I certainly noticed the security camera issue.
That's always been my one major issue with the ep as well. Welcome to the boards, GL's Light!

[GL's Light]

Welcome to the boards, GL's Light!
Thanks. Good to be here.

[James Harvey]

Featured on the new Batman: Gotham Knight DVD and Blu-Ray release (DVD Talkback (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=213378), feature talkback (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=213377)), discuss this classic Batman: The Animated Series episode!


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/heartofice/00.jpg
Episode #014 - Heart of Ice
Original Airdate - September 7th, 1992.

Mr. Freeze, thirsting for revenge against the sleazy CEO who destroyed his life, begins to steal various equipment from GothCorp. Batman's sympathy is with Freeze, but first he has to stop him from using the equipment to destroy a building filled with innocent people in order to carry out his vendetta.

Comments?

[FightingDreamer]

God, this is such a beautiful episode. When I look at nitpicky comments about the chicken soup, the inverted Bat-symbol that's barely visible unless you freeze-frame (and Timm, may I remind you, left it in on purpose), or the camera angles in Fries' video, I shake my head sadly (DisneyBoy's college story makes me especially sad). None of these things change the fact that I can view this episode over and over again and still be entranced from the moment the music kicks in. Sure, other episodes had better animation (such as my two TMS favorites, "Two-Face Part 1" and "Feat of Clay Part II"). Sure, other episodes had tighter plots. But this breaks my heart nearly every single time. *starts whistling opening music*

[Nora Fries]

As everyone knows, this is my favorite episode. Even though there are a flaw or two here and there, I still gave it a perfect 5. I don't care if the bat-symbol is inverted for a moment, or the animation isn't 100% perfect. To me - this is what made everyone stand up and notice Batman: TAS. Simply the best this show has to offer.

I know, Jim. I know. I absolutely loved it too. A real heartbreaker, an amazing début for a revamped villain... words can't describe it. :crying:

"This is how I'll always remember you. Surrounded by winter, forever young, forever beautiful. Rest well, my love. The monster who took you from me will soon that revenge is a dish...best served cold."- Mr.Freeze

[Nora Fries]

Truly, the best. Oh and hey, In case you guys didn't know, I'm gettin' The Holiday Adventures Special!

[CyclonatorZ]

It's kind of ironic that the arguably worst episode of the series was immediately followed in production by the arguably best episode. That said, while there are a few minor errors in Heart of Ice, it doesn't stop it from being one of the definitive examples of why B:TAS is such a great show. The pacing, the music, the voice acting, and characterization are all perfect, and while the animation is a little dated in comparision to some of the other episodes of the show, it still is perfectly servicable and even quite impressive in spots. The Batmobile chase stands out as a particularly well-animated scene, and I love the little part where Mr. Freeze uses a smashed fire-hydrant to ascend into a building.

Really, this is an amazing episode on almost all fronts, and even though I can't yet say whether it will be my favorite of all time, I'm sure it will remain on at least my top-five list. ;)