View Full Version : Everybody loves Bebop, Trigun has its lovers, but what about Outlaw Star?
Sora Takenouchi
06-09-2002, 09:43 PM
When people talk about the best in anime they say Cowboy Bebop and/or Trigun (most likely, not saying they would )...
...but what about the third space cowboy series, Outlaw Star? How does everyone feel about it and how does it compare to the other two "better" space cowboys? Every forum I visit people choose Spike Spiegal and Vash The Stampede over Gene Starwind. Kinda makes me feel sorry for the poor boy. :(
Even though I like Trigun and Bebop a helluva lot better than Outlaw Star, it is still one of my favorites.
I know I will find the occasional OLS lover-CB/Tr hater, it is still pretty rare.
How do the space cowboys rank with you. Is it the same as the majority ranks 'em? (1. Cowboy Bebop 2. Trigun 3. Outlaw Star)
I would just like to know why Gene must take the backseat with Spike driving and Vash sitting in the passenger seat with his head out the window, and his tounge flapping in the wind.
Well Outlaw Star is good, but ultimately it felt like an OVA dragged on WAAAAY too long, sorta like the way Tenchi Muyo loses some of its kick in its later episodes...
That being said, I love both Outlaw Star and Tenchi, and I think they deserve all the respect they get, but yeah I definitely prefer Cowboy Bebop. The music score, animation, character development and everything, really, just clicks more with me when it comes to good old CB. I don't watch it that often, tho, so I don't get burned out on it...
The Drizzle
06-09-2002, 10:10 PM
I absolutely love Outlaw Star! It's actually what got me into Bebop and Trigun.
I would rank the three series as follows:
1. Cowboy Bebop :D
2. Outlaw Star :cool:
3. Trigun ;)
And the main characters:
1. Gene Starwind :cool:
2. Spike Spiegel :p
3. Vash the Stampede :rolleyes:
Keep in mind, all three series and characters rule! :D :D :D
stanteau
06-09-2002, 10:16 PM
I personally like OS better than Bebop.I'm not taking anything away form BEbop,but OS had some legitimately hillarious comedy,AWEOSME Jon Woo style fights,and had a more "everyman" feel to the characters.I do however LOVE LOVE LOVE the gritty feel of Bebop (that scene at the end of the credits of Spike on the bench smoking,I need a ****in poster of that) but OS didn't ahve as many crappy fillers and had more of a supporting cast.Again,I am NOT taking anything away from BEbop,I ****in love that as well.
Trigun,I wouldn't piss on if it were on fire.
Mackenzie Rainelle
06-09-2002, 10:20 PM
Outlaw Star's not bad, I like it. I like all three of them, they all have their wonderful quirks. ^^
Ravenger
06-09-2002, 10:23 PM
All three are good in their own rights. But Outlaw Star is the first of them I saw(to be honest... haven't seen Trigun yet) and was just plain interesting. Its a nice series... it can lose track at points but it still had an interesting story, interesting characters, interesting surroundings... it was just plain... cool.
Anyway, don't count out Outlaw Star. Its cool.
Sheamon
06-09-2002, 10:29 PM
Outlaw Star is a pretty entertaining show the first time you watch it, but since it lacks the depth that Bebop has (can't comment on Trigun, I've never seen it) it will never attain that level of quality. In fact, I'd say that while Bebop is a show that you can watch over and over and still love, Outlaw Star gets progressively worse each time you watch it. Atleast thats my interpretation. I loved eps 1-23 the first time I saw the show. I liked them a lot the second time I watched it. Now, a year and a half or so after seeing the show the first time, I could pretty much care less about the show at all. Simply put, the lack of depth it has is so detrimental to the show that its extremely easy to simply get bored and pass over the show after you watch it a half dozen or so time.
Character wise, I'd say the show is pretty good, up until the end (more on that later). Gene is a very realistic hero with many flaws. Jim is realistic too. The other 3 main characters are cliches, but are well developed, so you can forgive that. However, I'd say that like with the rewatch-factor, the show can get quite repulsive after you watch it a few times since Gene and Aisha are such dislikable characters. I despise the both of them now.
I'd say the show purposely wrecks itself twice. First is just the format the show is set up in. Its great at the start. The first 4 episodes are some of the highest quality in the series. Then they kill off the coolest character (Hilda) merely to provide motivation for Gene and the others. After that, certain portions of the show (eps 5-9) drag on while others are stocked with useless filler episodes (13, 14, 16). The main storyline of the Galactic Leyline, the MacDougals, the Anten Seven, etc... aren't properly focused upon until the end.
And of course there's the ending. Where Bebop had IMHO the best anime ending ever, Outlaw Star's is one of the worst. Its insanely rushed; the Anten Seven are portrayed as tough individuals at first, but are simply flung away with in the end with ease. The Galactic Leyline ends up being a lame, cliche, 'wish' device. The whole thing is set up simply as a springboard for another series with the MacDougals surviving (despite it making no sense) and the Galactic Leyline simply fading out of existence resulting in the heroes accomplishing absolutely nothing. And worst of all, the characters, the part of the show that was so good up until this point, are totally ruined. Characters like Aisha, Jim, and especially Gene act totally out of character. Gene turns from the flawed hero into Mr. Perfect, a guy that loses all the selfishness he portrayed so much throughout the series. The whole thing's ridiculous and pulls down the show tremendously.
Thats not saying there isn't good aspects about the show. The animation is quite good except for the occasional episode where the character animation suffers. The music is great. There's plenty of good comedy and the villains are pretty cool up until the end. I personally am not a big fan of 'fan service' but there's plenty there too for guys who like it. I think it works well as a show on TV, one that wouldn't be viewed over and over again. But when you look at the show in detail, you'll realize that frankly, there's just not much there and the creators didn't try hard enough to make this a truly great show. Thats why you don't hear it as much as Bebop.
Galaxia
06-09-2002, 10:34 PM
I like Outlaw Star and Cowboy Bebop - haven't seen Trigun yet...
KingKoopa
06-09-2002, 10:40 PM
I like all 3, but
1) Trigun
2) Cowboy Bebop
3) Outlaw Star
I picked Trigun over Bebop because some characters named Ed get kinda annoying, and the lack of plot moving episodes gets annoying, too. CB was behind by 0.0000000001%, though.
Ikwig
06-09-2002, 11:10 PM
I haven't seen Trigun, and I love Cowboy Bebop. (Gee, I sound like a lot of other posters here! :D ) However, I've got a major warm spot in my heart for Outlaw Star; after accidentally coming across an episode of The Big O (when on Toonami) and getting sucked in, I kept watching when it ended and they put on Outlaw Star. At first, I was pretty p.o.ed (I'd only seen part of The Big O; I wanted them to rerun the series like they do everything else!), but pretty soon Outlaw Star had managed to suck me in as well. It was really got me started on anime, so you could say it's the reason I'm watching ASA now.
And I really do love the characters!
KingDead
06-09-2002, 11:11 PM
I agree with Sheamon all the way.
Outlaw Star is pulp more than anything else. It's good pulp, but you don't expect it to be anything more than what it is. Cowboy Bebop is meant to be 'deep' in addition to an action series, but OS is just straight up action. As Sheamon said, the lack of depth kills it's rewatchability. As for the characters, they're developed as far as the genre requires; Gene needs to get over his space fear, Aisha has a grudge to get over, etc.
However, I'd say that like with the rewatch-factor, the show can get quite repulsive after you watch it a few times since Gene and Aisha are such dislikable characters. I despise the both of them now.
Agreed. I don't know about the Japanese voice, but the American dub's voice of Aisha is as grating as having one's teeth dragged across concrete. She's among one of the cliched characters who never ascends beyond the cliche. And note, Aisha's my favorite character.
Chubby_Cox4444
06-10-2002, 01:38 AM
Ouch :( you guys are burning OLS big time.....i agree though itll never be as good as CB but it has great points (oh yea 1 CB 2 OS 3 Tri ((only seen 1 ep)) ) i mean the show had the cool origanal idea with the casters and stuff, and yes it lacked in many other areas but i enjoyed alot............P.S Aisha is horrible.....horribly annoying :mad:
The Drizzle
06-10-2002, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by Chubby_Cox4444
Ouch :( you guys are burning OLS big time.....
Wait just a minute here. Me said me likey OLS, yes?
hello_lola
06-10-2002, 03:54 AM
I like CB a lot. That being said, I prefer OS because it is a bit lighter, funnier, and doesn't have as many of the little nuances that, IMHO, sometimes make CB a smidge ambiguous. I really have never developed much of a liking for Edward, and, although I love the rest of the cast, I really prefer the characters from OS. As for Trigun, it's been a really long time since I've seen it, and I never saw it in it's entirety, so I can't really say how it compares to the other two.
baby-t
06-10-2002, 05:19 AM
My main priority of seeing somthing new of them.....
<1>Trigun
<2>Bebop
<3>Outlaw Star
unknown hero
06-10-2002, 11:58 AM
havent seen trigun yet
i like cb and os but....
COWBOY BEBOP is my favorite
Cogliostro
06-10-2002, 12:29 PM
I love Outlaw Star and Cowboy Bebop and Trigun (From what I have seen so far, Only seen alittle.) Outlaw Star did get me into Cowboy Bebop, Trigun and Hellsing. For you Outlaw Star, Cowboy Bebop and Trigun fans I suggest getting/renting Hellsing DVD when it comes out next month (July 23rd) here is its offical site. It has info on the story and characters and a couple of clips and some pictures. Alucard sorta looks like Vash with the red coat and sunglasses check it out...
http://hellsingdvd.com/
Zechs
06-10-2002, 12:31 PM
I like all three.
stanteau
06-10-2002, 12:41 PM
HEllsing was great but I wish they woulda spent all 13 eps on the tallass mofo,he was ****in great,
JTurner954
06-10-2002, 01:00 PM
I like Outlaw Star so far (even though I don't understand why they have the XGP). Gene is an ok character, but I enjoy Jim and Aisha from Kitarl Kitarl (I like saying that for some reason) a lot more. I like Cowboy Bebop a little more (even though I don't like Ed) because of the mood and the music that goes with it. I never saw Trigun so I don't know how that is. As long as Outlaw Star and Cowboy Bebop don't have "it was all a dream" endings, I'll end up liking them.
Time to insult people who don't acknowledge the unassailable greatness of my favorite show!
Originally posted by stanteau
I personally like OS better than Bebop. ... OS didn't ahve as many crappy fillers and had more of a supporting cast.
A plague upon thee and all thine descendents and relatives and cattle and manservants.
Originally posted by hello_lola
I prefer OS because it is a bit lighter, funnier, and doesn't have as many of the little nuances that, IMHO, sometimes make CB a smidge ambiguous.
Mayest thou burn amongst the buffalo chips.
I feel better now.
ROFL what people don't understand about Bebop is that it's more of a charcter study than a "show." Every episode has a distinct ending and beginning, and most stories don't run into other episodes. Quite simply put, the episodic nature of the show makes it absolutely IDEAL for an American TV run, because even if people come into the show right in the middle, they won't feel left out by not knowing the backstory and/or not having seen all the previous shows.
OS failed in this regard, because the plotline has SO many ridiculous twists and turns that serve to do little but give reason for a new fight scene, that if you HAVEN'T seen every episode in order you really don't get it at all.
And like someone else said, with Outlaw Star, it's not all that exciting to watch multiple times, since the ending is so trite, it cheapens the rest of the show. With Bebop, you learn to appreciate all the quirks and intricacies of the various characters with multiple viewings. It is just sublime =)
stanteau
06-10-2002, 03:27 PM
God I hate elitists.I hate anyone who makes themselves feel above everyone else based on simple opinion.
JETBLACK87
06-10-2002, 03:40 PM
twage I like you. your cool.
I like Os, but it can't really be campared to Bebop in greatness. The first few episodes of OS were great, but later on it got kinda boring, especially the filler episodes. It's a good thing it picked up at the end. Cowboy Bebop, on the other hand, was a great series all the way through.
I haven't seen Trigun, so I can't really comment on that one, but I've that it's right up there with CB so it can't be that bad. ;) I hope I get to see it on AS one of these days.
JETBLACK87
06-10-2002, 03:49 PM
I saw Bebop before OS and still haven't fineshed it so thats one reason why I don't like it as much. after you see Bebop other anime and shows aren't as good. as for trigun haven't seen it but my brother has seen the first 5 episode and says it's so funny and after seeing Bebop with more Drama then comedy. I just don't think a comedy can stand up against Bebop as the best.
hello_lola
06-10-2002, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Twage
Time to insult people who don't acknowledge the unassailable greatness of my favorite show!
A plague upon thee and all thine descendents and relatives and cattle and manservants.
Mayest thou burn amongst the buffalo chips.
I feel better now.
Ugh! Grow-up or pipe-down - either way, keep your juvenille attempts at humor to yourself.
Sheamon
06-10-2002, 04:16 PM
Ouch you guys are burning OLS big time.....i agree though itll never be as good as CB but it has great points (oh yea 1 CB 2 OS 3 Tri ((only seen 1 ep)) ) i mean the show had the cool origanal idea with the casters and stuff, and yes it lacked in many other areas but i enjoyed alot
Well, the topics about it compared to Bebop and I said why it didn't compare :p Thats not 'burning' the show. My opinion was asked for, so I gave it. As simple as that. The show's alright, but can't compare to Bebop on most levels.
I do agree with you about the caster thing though. Unfortunately that and the grappler arms were about the only original things on the show... (then again Bebop's hardly original itself so I don't use that when comparing them)
As long as Outlaw Star and Cowboy Bebop don't have "it was all a dream" endings, I'll end up liking them.
Uh oh... that exact line is in the final episode of Cowboy Bebop. Its not what you think though :p Things aren't too literal in that regard. Anyway, thats all I'll say. After having the Bebop ending spoiled for me by some idiot on another board, I wouldn't dare ruin it for anyone else. I'll shut up now -_-
Cogliostro
06-10-2002, 04:16 PM
Why must you people try to change or insult others opinions? If someone thinks Outlaw Star is the best guess what its the best (To them.) If someone thinks Cowboy Bebop is the best well guess what it is (To them.) If someone thinks Card Captor is the best anime guess what it is (To them) Now I could careless to try and change there mind. I think its great people find something great in each different show...
I'm not saying anyone's opinions are right or wrong, I'm just voicing my own. This is a public forum, the idea being you discuss ideas and opinions. Ya know, communication?
And I really do like Outlaw Star... both those DVDs and my Bebop DVDs are gathering dust as I get more and more new shows, but I have them to dust off someday and watch all over again...
I just know that I'll enjoy re-watching Bebop more than OS.
Oh, and for those who haven't seen Trigun -- do yourself a favor and start watching it about 6-8 episodes in. The first few episodes are really terrible, but the mid-late part of the show rocks. And the first episodes are MUCH better after you've seen the whole show, I just nearly gave up on it after I bought the vol.1 DVD when it was first released...
stanteau
06-10-2002, 05:51 PM
Exactly.I like OS better but by .000000000001 percent more.
Originally posted by stanteau
God I hate elitists.I hate anyone who makes themselves feel above everyone else based on simple opinion.
Originally posted by hello_lola
Ugh! Grow-up or pipe-down - either way, keep your juvenille attempts at humor to yourself.
Originally posted by Cogliostro
Why must you people try to change or insult others opinions? If someone thinks Outlaw Star is the best guess what its the best (To them.) If someone thinks Cowboy Bebop is the best well guess what it is (To them.) If someone thinks Card Captor is the best anime guess what it is (To them) Now I could careless to try and change there mind. I think its great people find something great in each different show...
Whoa! Looks like I've been taken waaaaay too seriously!
Yes, I too think it's idiotic to believe one is better than someone else simply because of what cartoons one prefers. I would've thought I was making that clear by poking fun and the "elitists" who actually do believe that.
Yes, Outlaw Star is fun to watch (so is Trigun). However, I've never seen either completely unedited so I can't authoritatively comment on how they compare to Bebop. I can, however, attempt to bring a little bit of joy into the world. So go eat some ice cream or something and get over it. I was joking.
P.S. Thanks, JetBlack. We should start a Cool People Club. And we could meet in the Clubhouse of Cool People. In Wyoming. Where there's buffalo burgers.
Ikwig
06-10-2002, 06:40 PM
Go Twage! :D
G. Wen
06-11-2002, 12:43 AM
I have never seen Trigun so I can't judge it. I like CB more than I like OS because CB has smoother animation, has better music, and because it is deeper. I discover a new meaning or message every time I rewatch an episode. I like the episodes more as I rewatch them. OS was fun when I first started to watch it, but then it got old fast. The fillers didn't do anything for me, and most of the time I found myself daydreaming while I was watching it. The series drags in places, and the animation is rough at times.
joshualane
06-11-2002, 01:19 AM
I haven't seen Trigun yet, but the DVD Box Set is definitely on my Wish List as I've heard good things.
As far as Cowboy Bebop goes, for me, it's one of the most over-rated shows I've ever seen. My roommate considers it one of the greatest anime series EVER, but he and I tend to be polar opposites when it comes to entertainment. I think the show certainly looked nice and there were certain elements that were entertaining at times, but overall I thought the show to be rather slow and uninteresting with characters that were rather boring as well.
Outlaw Star on the other hand was something that I enjoyed FAR much more as it was very entertaining and I really liked all the characters in the series, especially Gene. The action and adventure aspect of the series, along with the epic story-telling style was also something that I really liked and tend to prefer when it comes to my anime selections.
Originally posted by joshualane
As far as Cowboy Bebop goes, for me, it's one of the most over-rated shows I've ever seen. My roommate considers it one of the greatest anime series EVER, but he and I tend to be polar opposites when it comes to entertainment. I think the show certainly looked nice and there were certain elements that were entertaining at times, but overall I thought the show to be rather slow and uninteresting with characters that were rather boring as well.
Hype really hurts good shows. If you come in expecting Shakespeare you'll be disappointed even if it is fabulous stuff. But if you come in without expectations it is more likely to rock your world.
Outlaw Star's only good thing is it starts off with a bang. But that's all there really is, all style and no substance.
I didn't really fall in love with Bebop until Ed came on the scene. From that point on, the show is priceless.
JustJack
06-11-2002, 01:38 AM
After I first saw Trigun a few years back, I had the thought, and continue to believe, perhaps Vash is so popular merely because he looks so damn cool! Lets face it, his character design is undoubtedly awesome. And with his legendary revolver...sweet. I was a fan of the character Vash before I saw Trigun, but after I finally saw the series, I was less excited about the whole thing. Quite frankly, Trigun was GOOD. But, it simply didn't meet the hype that it came with. I felt kinda upset. Yes, I do like Trigun, & I love the character Vash, still. But, really...Trigun is lacking compared to many other anime. I'd say Trigun is a series with a popular hype. But, it's simply not the best...
Cowboy Bebop simply rules. Meets all expectations and beyond. And Spike rules no matter how you slice it. ;)
Outlaw Star, though...I had never even heard of it untill I saw it on Toonami. And I loooooooved it! I liked the art, the characters, the plot, and everything. But, characterization is a bit lacking, and when you get right down to it, the entire show doesn't quite match up to its Space Cowboy bretheren. While I may prefer Outlaw Star over Trigun, I must say Trigun did have excelent characterization, and things moved much smoother. But, Outlaw Star kinda felt like "Lets take this hype, do this, and throw it out here, and...boom, we have money". There's not enough love behind Outlaw Star....Cowboy Bebop is all about the love...the creaters loved the show...but OS, where's the love? :D
Momijii
06-11-2002, 01:52 AM
I found that Outlaw Star, Cowboy Bebop and Trigun where all good so I enjoyed all three series.
We're getting off topic, let's try to keep the discussion on AS shows... That being said, I didn't feel Outlaw Star had nearly the level of character development and interesting plot twists that Trigun had. Just my opinion.
Mackenzie Rainelle
06-11-2002, 07:53 AM
What I think's incredible is how much all of them vary from whatever manga they come from. The Trigun manga's not even finished (prompting a lot of fans to HATE the anime ending), The Outlaw Star manga is.....well......pretty hentai actually. Enough to the point I couldn't force myself to go any further than the first volume... Never read anything from Bebop.
stanteau
06-11-2002, 10:30 AM
The Bebop manga was made after the series to cash in.
Trigun spoilers
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The reason I hate Trigun is quite simple.The first just wasn't fuinny.I don't go for the "I look badass but WAHOO!I'M A GOON!" comedy.Whether it be Kenshin or Trigun,it doesn't make me laugh.Than the second half tried,oh how it tried,but too little to late.With the lack of blood and onscreen deaths the GHG were made out to be compolete pansies.I felt like I was watching a Toonami edited version or something.I never felt that these guys should've been feared or anything.And they never did anything HORRIBLE cause Vash always stopped 'em,like when trying to blow up the ship.Wolfwood was the only reason I kept watching but if you ever wanna make a death completely ****in predictable,watch this show.I knew he was gonna die around episode 18.Than the 2 girls who follow Vash around were just annoying.Tee series woulda been awesome as a 13 episode OVA with some actual violence.
rmarti3926
06-11-2002, 02:26 PM
I haven't seen Trigun yet,
I like Cowboy Bebop a bit more than Outlaw Star, but OS has some lovable characters too (Jim and Aisha and the funny side of Gene are examples.)
The advantage the CB has over OS is the music. Yako Kanno is a great composer and scored the best music bits on CB (The Egg and I is NOW my personal favorite CB cut) OS has just typical "cartoon" fare. Its composer BTW is Kou Otkani, better known as the music man behind Gundam Wing and the You're Under Arrest OVAs.
Like I said, if you want to enjoy watching Trigun, find a friend who LOVES it and start watching about 8 episodes into the show... the first 6 episodes are just ridiculously TERRIBLE. I do think the show has merit, Wolffang (or whatever that guy's name is, I'm not a huge Trigun maniac by any stretch of the imagination) was a cool character, and I liked Trigun's ending WAY better than OS'es trite wrap-up.
Mackenzie Rainelle
06-11-2002, 03:07 PM
With the lack of blood and onscreen deaths the GHG were made out to be compolete pansies.
Again, the anime veered off of the manga, and was severely toned down. The Gung Ho Guns' deaths are considerbly more violent in the manga, with the fight between Wolfwood and Grey the Ninelives going from fight to gore to butchery in the course of about three pages being a prime example. Legato telekinetically forcing a gang member to rip his own heart out, and then forcing his buddies to all shoot each other was pretty nasty in the manga too.
stanteau
06-11-2002, 03:45 PM
THAT would've made some really great villians.
And Knives holds the "most undeveloped villian ever" award.Legato was in the spotlight way more.THe sick thing is I was cheering for Knives after the flashback episode.If Trigun woulda had Knives in it a lot more it'd be so much better but we really only see him ion 3 episodes.
Yeah Wolfwood, that's the name... and I agree stanteau, Knives needed to have been used more. It really isn't a terrible show, it just seems like it could have been much, much better.
Mackenzie Rainelle
06-11-2002, 03:49 PM
::snicker:: "DAMN STRAIGHT, I'M NOT HUMAN!!" Char absolutely despises Knives, but I thought that was one of the best lines in the series.
stanteau
06-11-2002, 04:15 PM
Totally Xevo,it's a C+ show but the lost potential puts it at an F grade for me.It ties DBZ and Slayers as my most hated show ever.
Opaque
06-11-2002, 05:05 PM
Outlaw Star is a pimp show. i used to stay up on school nights just to watch it on midnight run.
atari_14
06-11-2002, 06:01 PM
OK, Lets see here. I like all the three about the same. OS was really cool. i've enjoyed watching it every time i get the chance to, and i like the Characters.
CB ROCKS!! Even though i haven't seen the Whole Series yet I totally love it. Feel in love with it from the very first ep i seen. Plus i totally think Spike kicks major ass.
Trigun (in my opinion) ROCKS Too. I liked how the plot went, well sortta, Love most of the Characters,expecally Vash and Knives. For all the people who haven't seen Trigun, (also in my opinion) the first volume isn't really important, All it does is introduce the Characters and it is mostly comedy. But just warning you guys, don't expect it to stay comedic. It gets really serious after the first two volumes.
1-2) Trigun & Cowboy Bebop (they tie)
3) Outlaw Star
Hey guys, I know we wanna talk about anime, but this is really getting off topic =( Until they make us a general anime board, you ought to talk more about this on the General Animation (Warner Bros. Club) board... here's a link to a thread similar to this one, discuss away!
http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36993
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