Did 'Mad Love' Blur The Lines?

[James Harvey]

Now, in the flashback in MAD LOVE, they still use the new 'TNBA' style. So, I ponder this: Does the 'TNBA' look stretch out now, erasing the original BTAS look, or is the TNBA look just the BTAS look updated?

[Calhoun07]

I always thought it looks updated. It never occured to me other wise.

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by DickGrayson
Now, in the flashback in MAD LOVE, they still use the new 'TNBA' style. So, I ponder this: Does the 'TNBA' look stretch out now, erasing the original BTAS look, or is the TNBA look just the BTAS look updated?


The argument could go either way. But I'd say it's just updating, not erasing the BATS look. I know this point has been discussed before but when you look at the flashback sequences in TNBA you see Batman in his TNBA costume. When you look at the flashbacks in BTAS Batman's usually in a costume similar to his TNBA one. So out of convince I'd say all the flashbacks in TNBA (and basically we're just talking about "Mad Love" and "Old Wounds" here) either take place before BTAS or after BATS. And that for some strange reason Bruce decided design a slightly different costume for the BATS period, then went back to the original design later.

[Samhaine]

I say it was just because they didn't feel like making new character designs to fit with the new style. TNBA was supposed to be simpler, so why bother with new character designs when that's more work?

If you notice, Joker has the TNBA look as well. It was just that Timm liked the newer style better.

[optimal321]

Yeah, that's one of the things i didn't like about the ep. In fact, that's one of the things i didn't like about the re-vamp. Before BTAS, Batman wore a costume kinda like the TNBA one, so i can see why he would look the same. But Joker looked radically different from BTAS to TNBA. And there's no explaination why he would look different (aside from Timm saying so:)). That's why i think the new designs should have allowed for BTAS to be it's past.

And i would have liked to have seen the flashback scene in OLD WOUNDS show more of a transition between the two. Like Bruce could have maybe had a haircut more similar to that in BTAS. The Batman costume and batmobile should have been from BTAS too. In short, the BTAS designs in the TNBA style (if that makes sense). And maybe Dick's leaving could have been part of the reason why Batman changed his costume to the darker colors.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by optimal321
Yeah, that's one of the things i didn't like about the ep. In fact, that's one of the things i didn't like about the re-vamp. Before BTAS, Batman wore a costume kinda like the TNBA one, so i can see why he would look the same. But Joker looked radically different from BTAS to TNBA. And there's no explaination why he would look different (aside from Timm saying so:)). That's why i think the new designs should have allowed for BTAS to be it's past.


But a show's look is just that: a look. It wouldn't make sense to see two different versions of the same Batman in the same episode. That just wouldn't make sense. In the comic world, there are so many different artists that have drawn Batman. When doing flashbacks, do any of them try to recreated past versions of Batman? Of course not. They stick to their style of drawing. If a storyline goes through multiple Batman titles, does the "Batman" artist try to draw Batman like the "Detective" artist? Again, of course not.

This really isn't something that should be debated, because it confuses external elements with the story world. Joker is drawn differently in the two styles for exactly that reason: they're two different styles. No explanation is needed. It's the same character. That's all that matters. Presentation is completely different from subject matter and doesn't need to be explained in episodes.

[Trent Lane]

Why'd they ever decide to abandon the yellow oval w/ the batman emblem anyway?...

[Calhoun07]

Yellow is too happy of a color for the Dark Knight.

[Nightwing]

And the yellow comes off as weird in a dark, shadow filled setting. But I like the BTAS style better. Anyway, I don't see it as anything more than an evolution either. Things were meant to be simpler, so they were. When I saw the flashback in Mad Love and how it was TNBA style, I didn't think anything of it, because I was watching an episode of TNBA.

[BWDK]

I don't like like that TNBA look either. In my opinion they probably thought "keep the BTAS storyline but let's erase all the old designs and act like they've never existed before"

The design of the Mad Hatter bothers me the most. In BTAS he was almost as tall as Batman and now he's even smaller than Tim Drake. The Joker's TNBA design sux as well that's why they changed his design again for ROTJ and JLA.

By they way did any of you ever notice that the Batcycle in Old Wounds is still the BTAS one?

[optimal321]

Originally posted by BWDK

By they way did any of you ever notice that the Batcycle in Old Wounds is still the BTAS one?

Yeah, but since they never used it in TNBA except for that ep, they probably just never made a new design for it.

[BWDK]

Sure they did, look at the thing Nightwing rides in "YOU SCRATCH MY BACK"

[optimal321]

Originally posted by BWDK
Sure they did, look at the thing Nightwing rides in "YOU SCRATCH MY BACK"

That was a different bike, wasn't it?

[BWDK]

nope it's the TNBA style Batcycle.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by BWDK

The design of the Mad Hatter bothers me the most. In BTAS he was almost as tall as Batman and now he's even smaller than Tim Drake. The Joker's TNBA design sux as well that's why they changed his design again for ROTJ and JLA.



I preferred the new Mad Hatter look. It seemed for fitting for a character with that name. The Joker's new design didn't suck, but it was no where near as good as the BTAS design.

But while some characters looked worse, others looked a lot better, like Bane, Scarecrow, and Batgirl. I also think the movement of the characters, particularly in fights scenes, was so much more fluid than in BTAS.

[Maxie Zeus]

Funny that no one has mentioned the most radical redesign and reconceptualization: The Penguin. Theories, anyone?

[BWDK]

Well, he drank some slim fast, got a hair cut (for the 1st time in his live) and he had some surgery on his flippers/hands.

[Nightwing]

I still love the TNBA design, I just have a few small complaints. The Mad Hatter being one. I thought his BTAS design was much more fitting. More debinare, and english.

Bane and Scarecrow are examples of characters that I really like their new designs, but I like the old ones a tiny tiny bit better.

The Penguin I thought was odd, and I liked the old one cuz it was more "Penguin-ish". But he's supposed to be human anyway, so it was okay.

[James Harvey]

I don't like how the Ventriloquist lost his neck. I thought that redesign was just bad. He looks like GUmby now for cripes sake! And I remember everyone complaining about Gordon's ne wlook, but I thought it was great. Gordon's getting older and the redesign showed it.

[RAMPAGE]

And Harvey Bullock completely lost his shape! Probably too many donuts.

Remember the Farmer Brown episode? "Hey! He ate my donut!"

[DR. BELCH]

--Riddler. The guy looks like a chemo patient, bald and wasted away to skin and bones. That might explain why he's nearly absent from the series, though--maybe Hatter and Bane dragged him out of his sickbed and forced him to help them. "Die slow of your tumor or fast in my hands," Bane tells him, and he agrees to their deal.

[DerekPowers]

to be honest, i didnt have too many complaints about the re-designs. I liked alot of the old ones better, not to mention tas on a whole kicked tnba butt, but i didnt really dislike any of the redesigns. I really thought it was cool that they did that, it gave the whole thing a new energy. And all the characters were the same, just tweeked with, almost like a what if thing. Like the ventriliquist, for example, i thought it was really cool that they made him so odd, cause its like they established the characters in tas, and in tnba they could just have fun making cool character designs.

My favorite re-design....THE PENGUIN. I loved the new design soo much and the new attitude.

My least favorite....KILLER CROC, god did his new design suck.

With a lot of the characters, i liked their new looks on the basis that thier old ones already were done. For example, CATWOMAN. i loved her new design, but had that been her first design i dont think i'd have liked it as much. I liked it cause we already had he old, and now we get the new one which is cool. Same with THE MAD HATTER. I personally liked his old look better, but we already got that, so it was nice to see him re-done into a dwarf. I feel most of the re-designs were great on because of the fact that the first designs were so great (many even better than the new) so with the new they could just get all wild with them (like with the new creepy RIDDLER, phantom CATWOMAN, corpse SCARECROW, sleek (and body-less) MR. FREEZE, grining skull JOKER, and nymph POISON IVY .) The new ones were so much more exagerated and over the top, which i think worked great for the second show, had it been they been the first designs, i dont think they would have went over as well. peace.

[James Harvey]

Plus the new exaggerated look let the crew get away with more, in terms of story and violnce. I think TNBA was overall good, but not given a chance it should've been. What erks me is that many people see it as a whole new series, when it's just a continuation of BTAS. I hear (alot) that TNBA was a "flop" and a "failure" and all that. WB ordered 24 episodes and that's it. No more. The redesigns, I though, were serviceable. I really liked Batman's redesign. I like the overall change to a more grim attitude. It suited him much better.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by DickGrayson
I really liked Batman's redesign. I like the overall change to a more grim attitude. It suited him much better.

Yeah. Even as Bruce he looked a lot "colder." What I loved especially was the writing that went along with the Batman redesign. I think most would agree that Bruce was the mask, not Batman, so I thought it was great that, with the exception of public appearances, Bruce acted exactly like Batman in TNBA. It never seemed right in BTAS that Bruce was always smiling and lighthearted, showing the dark attitude only when the mask came on.