Justice League's roster should be handled like GI Joe did in the 80's.

[ARMquaman]

Let's face it each and every one of us want to see as many characters in the DC universe as possible in Justice League. We keep hearing Timm/Burnett/Fogel and their dopey qualifying answers saying NO to Green Arrow, Captain Marvel, Atom, Hawkman(the fact Hawkgirl hasn't mentioned him is hideous) and Nightwing as guest stars or it's this huuuuge ordeal for them to at least reference them I say PUKE! It's called Justice League for reason not "Batman/Superman and their amazing friends". These guys(Timm/Burnett/Fogel) constantly have this myopic way the team is supposed to be portrayed or JUST seven members. I say it doesn't have to be that limited or boring.

I feel the best way to appeal to the cross section of JL fans young and old, and to promote the entire DC universe is to have sort of an open-door policy with a huge core group but have it rotate like they did on GI Joe. GI Joe utilized to it's max like 60 members always rotating. You never knew from one episode to the next who was showing up and we loved it. One show it's Snakeeyes, Dusty, Roadblock and Flint the next it's Scarlett, Airtight, Quick Kick and Duke. The same goes here one episode gives Aquaman,Zauriel, Batman and Dr Fate and the next is Hawkman, Green Arrow, Black Lightening and Zatanna.

I know for me I'm already bored with the current team especially John Stewart and Hawkgirl.

[Joe Wagner]

Ok....the reason it's called Justice League is because it's a show about the worlds seven most powerful superheroes fighting threats that are to large for each hero to take on themselves. The Justice League are not a government organization bent on riding the world of Cobra - they only face threats when something important has happened that normal people wouldn't be able to handle.

I think everyone here would love to see some guest stars on the show - I know that I personally would love to see Aztek but at the same time it would make no sense to abandon the current roster every episode. By doing this the show would lose it's stability as people might not tune in because they won't know who half of the characters are. If CN wanted to do a show like that they would have created "DC Adventures" instead of JL:TAS. JL is supposed to focus on the icons of DC Comics and focus on making seven people into one team. Having a rotating roster on JL would be like having a rotating roster on X-Men:TAS where anyone that was a mutant could appear. People would grow tired of it very quickly and the show would fail.

If you look back at the old GI Joe episodes I think you'll find that the more popular Joe's made a lot more appearance than the lesser known ones and almost always appeared somewhere in the episode - it wasn't a completely different cast every time the show appeared.

-Joe!

[Toddman]

Having been a huge Joe fan back in the day and being a huge JL fan today, I can see both points.

However, I don't think that one way is better than the other or that a large rotating cast would hurt JL (it sure didn't impede the Joes popularity).

I simply think that it is a matter of taste. If anything, it depends on what your goal is as a creator.

If you are interested in selling a large line of action figures (or comic books) then a larger cast would be to your benifit. Would it inhibit the writers from telling good stories? Of course not. But if your goal as a writer is to tell more character driven stories and to have plenty of room to develope the characters, then a smaller regular cast is what you want. Again, good stories can be told this way as well.

It's all a matter of taste.

Toddman

[ARMquaman]

Originally posted by jjwspider
Ok....the reason it's called Justice League is because it's a show about the worlds seven most powerful superheroes fighting threats that are to large for each hero to take on themselves. The Justice League are not a government organization bent on riding the world of Cobra - they only face threats when something important has happened that normal people wouldn't be able to handle.

I think everyone here would love to see some guest stars on the show - I know that I personally would love to see Aztek but at the same time it would make no sense to abandon the current roster every episode. By doing this the show would lose it's stability as people might not tune in because they won't know who half of the characters are. If CN wanted to do a show like that they would have created "DC Adventures" instead of JL:TAS. JL is supposed to focus on the icons of DC Comics and focus on making seven people into one team. Having a rotating roster on JL would be like having a rotating roster on X-Men:TAS where anyone that was a mutant could appear. People would grow tired of it very quickly and the show would fail.

If you look back at the old GI Joe episodes I think you'll find that the more popular Joe's made a lot more appearance than the lesser known ones and almost always appeared somewhere in the episode - it wasn't a completely different cast every time the show appeared.

I agree keep a core group but a little larger. These X cartoons do it very well the early nineties core roster went 9 deep with Archangel, Bishop, Cable, Nightcrawler, Colossus etc showing up all the time. They had no "keep them busy" problems at all.

If GI Joe and X-Men had it wrong then how come they both lasted like 6 seasons or so and Justice League is meandering through just two? Plus I'm finding it's very easy to get sick of the current teams lack of personality and powers(GL bores me to green tears). It needs something more.

Have some fun with it guys(Timm/Burnett/Fogel) you have the whole DC universe as your waterpark. The creative team is too myopic/arrogant and never admit when they're wrong ON ANYTHING.


Originally posted by Toddman
Having been a huge Joe fan back in the day and being a huge JL fan today, I can see both points.

However, I don't think that one way is better than the other or that a large rotating cast would hurt JL (it sure didn't impede the Joes popularity).

I simply think that it is a matter of taste. If anything, it depends on what your goal is as a creator.

If you are interested in selling a large line of action figures (or comic books) then a larger cast would be to your benifit. Would it inhibit the writers from telling good stories? Of course not. But if your goal as a writer is to tell more character driven stories and to have plenty of room to develope the characters, then a smaller regular cast is what you want. Again, good stories can be told this way as well.

It's all a matter of taste.


Toddman


Very well put Toddman, and I'm not just pleased because you sort of agree with me.

YOOOO JOE!

[Harvey Dent]

A rotating roster might've made sense if Timm was using the "Year One" group, but since he decided to go with the "Magnificent Six Plus One", that's not going to happen.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Harvey Dent
A rotating roster might've made sense if Timm was using the "Year One" group, but since he decided to go with the "Magnificent Six Plus One", that's not going to happen.

This may sound stupid, but isn't there already a rotating roster?

It's just that instead of having a couple of dozen heroes to choose from, there are only seven.

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by ARMquaman



I agree keep a core group but a little larger. These X cartoons do it very well the early nineties core roster went 9 deep with Archangel, Bishop, Cable, Nightcrawler, Colossus etc showing up all the time. They had no "keep them busy" problems at all.

If GI Joe and X-Men had it wrong then how come they both lasted like 6 seasons or so and Justice League is meandering through just two? Plus I'm finding it's very easy to get sick of the current teams lack of personality and powers(GL bores me to green tears). It needs something more.

Have some fun with it guys(Timm/Burnett/Fogel) you have the whole DC universe as your waterpark. The creative team is too myopic/arrogant and never admit when they're wrong ON ANYTHING.

Actually the X-Men team was a solid group with one or two members appearing through out the series. All of the characters you listed only showed up a couple of times (except Angel who did show up in roughly 6-10 episodes, but rarely as the focal point - Nightcrawler only showed up once and I think Colossus only had one or two appearances). The core cast of Prof. X, Wolverine, Cyclops, Gambit, Jean Grey, Storm, Rogue and Jubilee though were in every episode - there was never one that went by that didn't include at least one of them. The JL would work great with a consistent team and one or two guest stars but the series wouldn't work without the consistency of one solid team at all times.

The same was true with Transformers and GI Joe - a handful of members were singled out as the "core group" and were featured in almost every episode - even if a lesser known character got the primary spotlight they were still intertwined with the popular ones, the characters that sold the merchandise and made the audience watch the show. Once again neither of these shows would have been as successful as they became if the writers had a new team of characters every episode and never established the core group.

The core group is very important as it keeps people coming back to something they feel familair and comfortable with - if the show doesn't have that feeling they are likely to fail. I mean would "Friends" ever have become as successful as it is now if NBC was constantly switching the group every other episode or so? The answer is no - people want to see familair and distinguished faces - the same holds true for JL:TAS and that's why we'll never see a "DC Adventures" show.

-Joe!

[GL2k2]

This is just one of the things that made DC cartoons boring and Marvel cool. Marvel always referrenced other characters. Which is why I think they should do it in the films, but who cares about that now.

I think the show should keep a core group, but like any real t.v. show, characters should be dynamic and start switching things up maybe by the end of season three. They should start introducing more heroes from the JLA mythos this next season and set up replacements. I think the Justice League should go to war with Apocalypse in season three and lose a member or two. Then next season open up with five members and have more heros show up to help out like in the comics. You pick whoever the heck you're thinking, but have those guys show up. Change the title sequences to the old collage of clips and we got a winner people.

Of course now I will wake up from my fantasy land now with the knowledge the show will go on as it has been. Laters.

[ARMquaman]

Originally posted by jjwspider


Actually the X-Men team was a solid group with one or two members appearing through out the series. All of the characters you listed only showed up a couple of times (except Angel who did show up in roughly 6-10 episodes, but rarely as the focal point - Nightcrawler only showed up once and I think Colossus only had one or two appearances). The core cast of Prof. X, Wolverine, Cyclops, Gambit, Jean Grey, Storm, Rogue and Jubilee though were in every episode - there was never one that went by that didn't include at least one of them. The JL would work great with a consistent team and one or two guest stars but the series wouldn't work without the consistency of one solid team at all times.

The same was true with Transformers and GI Joe - a handful of members were singled out as the "core group" and were featured in almost every episode - even if a lesser known character got the primary spotlight they were still intertwined with the popular ones, the characters that sold the merchandise and made the audience watch the show. Once again neither of these shows would have been as successful as they became if the writers had a new team of characters every episode and never established the core group.

The core group is very important as it keeps people coming back to something they feel familair and comfortable with - if the show doesn't have that feeling they are likely to fail. I mean would "Friends" ever have become as successful as it is now if NBC was constantly switching the group every other episode or so? The answer is no - people want to see familair and distinguished faces - the same holds true for JL:TAS and that's why we'll never see a "DC Adventures" show.

-Joe!

No no no, I in fact started the thread by saying it should have a CORE group, but I feel a little larger like 11 or so, thus opening up potential for the other DC/JLers to guest in that fashion or randomly.

In GI Joe it was like Flint, Lady Jaye, Roadblock, Snakeeyes, Shipwreck etc then the other 30 would be incorporated. X-Men's most common guests were the aforementioned I stated(Angel7,Bishop9,Cable11,Colossus3 plus several others and you never knew just who would pop in it worked very well on both fronts. Why not give us a some semblance of suprise?

One of my problems is Justice League seems to be riddled in this season renewal controversy slop. They don't have enough buoyancy or time to play around with contrived character development just use the blasted hero files ALREADY, the term Justice League gives you the greenlight. You never know when they'll be cancelled(seemingly from week to week). My advice is while they have the time, maximize the ENTIRE universe. Even if it is to sell more action figures and video games for Chucky O'Hara, it's a good enough reason for me plus a fun reason!

I'll say it again ALL THOSE SERIES(X-Men plus evolution, GI Joe, Transformers) lasted several seasons and Justice League seems to barely be lasting two! Which is more successful I wonder?

[ARMquaman]

Originally posted by GL2k2
This is just one of the things that made DC cartoons boring and Marvel cool. Marvel always referrenced other characters. Which is why I think they should do it in the films, but who cares about that now.

I think the show should keep a core group, but like any real t.v. show, characters should be dynamic and start switching things up maybe by the end of season three. They should start introducing more heroes from the JLA mythos this next season and set up replacements. I think the Justice League should go to war with Apocalypse in season three and lose a member or two. Then next season open up with five members and have more heros show up to help out like in the comics. You pick whoever the heck you're thinking, but have those guys show up. Change the title sequences to the old collage of clips and we got a winner people.

Of course now I will wake up from my fantasy land now with the knowledge the show will go on as it has been. Laters.


Very well said GL. That opening shackles them into keeping that core group longer than they should. Although I'm for racial diversity John Stewart is going right to my forehead vein especially with the way he uses the ring(most agree).

[Batman 80]

The 7 member roster is fine. We don't need anymore heroes.

[Bird Boy]

Originally posted by Batman 80
The 7 member roster is fine. We don't need anymore heroes.

what he said.. :D

seriously though, I don't want anymore hero's..guest spots might cool, but following 7 people is hard enough..

-BB

[Webryder]

I think everyone has a point, but my question is ......What's the rush??

It's only been 1 season, not even a full one yet, and there's plenty of time to bring in sidekicks and other lesser known but still popular DC hero's into the mix. Somewhere down the line at the end of season 2-start of season 3 or something AFTER the main players have been established.

I'm not saying it's not a good idea cuz, I for one, would like to see Timm & Co. do their version of heros we haven't seen before, BUT I don't want them to jump the gun either.

My reason......Marvel's Avengers (a team made up of lesser known superhero's that didn't even last a season)

[ARMquaman]

Originally posted by Bird Boy


what he said.. :D

seriously though, I don't want anymore hero's..guest spots might cool, but following 7 people is hard enough..

-BB

More guest stars might be cool??? Of course it would be cool!! Timm, Burnett, Fogel have convinced you seven is fine. I don't believe for a cyber second you wouldn't love a sudden announcement that Aquaman, Green Arrow, and Atom would be incorporated on the team. The knowledge that for the duration of this series that THIS is sole team they'll use I find depressing narrowminded and a major bummer. I don't I could handle one more episode featuring their repugnant Green Lantern.

One major advantage Marvel's animated series have is they have more fun. They always keep you on your toes with a reference or a cameo. Not gratuitous just FUN.

[Bird Boy]

all right--right now, I'm gonna tell you to just chill out. You seem to be getting worked up about this for some reason--I don't know why, but please, calm down before somthing explodes...

You don't like Green Lantern--I see that. But, they aren't going to be getting rid of Lantern, because out of every 5 people I ask if they like Lantern, 4 of them are guaranteed to say "yes". He's not the coolest--in fact he ranks the lowest on my list, but I still enjoy him. He's the way I would see Batman if he became a Green Lantern--serious, and doing the stuff way that gets it done quickest (why form a gigantic hand that causes more thought, than just a regular bubble that works just as well?).

Now then, before this turns into a Green Lantern debate (which we've had plenty of those), lets turn this topic back round to re-doing the roster/adding more, for those that don't like the current roster anyway.

-BB

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


Originally posted by ARMquaman
More guest stars might be cool??? Of course it would be cool!! Timm, Burnett, Fogel have convinced you seven is fine.

If that's so, and that's what they really believe, then why has Aquaman already had a guest shot, along with lesser heroes like the GL Corps and Hippolyta (who's had 2 so far)? There are also episodes with Etrigan the Demon, Metamorpho, and the Blackhawk Squadron upcoming (any day now, really...). Or are there other heroes you had in mind?

This thread has the same kind of facination as a car wreck. I don't particularly enjoy it, and yet I cannot look away...

-- Ed/Ace

[Batman 80]

Guest shots are one thing but adding more characters to a team of 7 is too much. That's why I don't follow the JL mainstream comic because there are too many characters. 7 is the perfect number for a team of heros. And I hope none of the members get replaced their all cool in their own little way.

[ARMquaman]

Originally posted by Batman 80
Guest shots are one thing but adding more characters to a team of 7 is too much. That's why I don't follow the JL mainstream comic because there are too many characters. 7 is the perfect number for a team of heros. And I hope none of the members get replaced their all cool in their own little way.

If seven heroes is SOOOOO difficult to "keep busy", then why do these X-Men cartoons have in upwards of 10 team members in addition to guest stars going on to several seasons? Is JL's seven for character development purposes, I hope not? We don't even know what the Flash's real name is yet? I assume it's Wally West? But they haven't said it yet after 17 aired episodes nor have we heard the name Martian Manhunter uttered? I've seen better development from 10th grade Horticulture class. No Batmobile, no Nightwing or Robin, no Hawkman references ALL inexcusable.

I do not consider Hippolyta a guest star or the Blackhawks. The Demon is a self indulgent Timm/Burnett/Fogel force and really lame! Simply because he appeared in the Batman TAS it's an just easy/lazy carry over. I defy anyone to claim they care about Etrigan the Demon or you wouldn't trade that for a Green Arrow, Captain Marvel story c'mon! They obviously have a strange inexplicable fascination with Demon but no one else does in the comic book community least of all kids. Another case of Timm assuming he knows something we don't.

[The Flash]

ARMquaman, we've told you time and time again to calm down. So calm down!! By putting your message across like that, you're making it hard for people to respect your opinion(s).

[Harvey Dent]

I could see other people joining the League under certain conditions.

Example:

Let's pretend Bruce Timm decided to make the Batman Beyond timeline the official future for any present day DCU animated shows. And let's pretend that he also decided to incorporate the flashback sequence from ROTJ into the current JL timeline. With that in mind, Batman decides that, due to what happened to Robin, he must give Gotham his full attention. In his absence, he suggests that the other League members call upon The Atom to assist them in any scientific or other special capacity until he returns. So for at least one season, we get to see a slightly altered League lineup.

I think the example above would make for some great stories, and you don't have to dumb down or alter your stories to keep Ray in the mix because, unlike Batman, he has superpowers. In a tight situation? Just shrink down to a sub-molecular level and get out of it.

[GL2k2]

Don't forget Sgt. Rock is making an appearance too.

I'd like to see the Atom in an episode that shrinks the League and have to fight the Injustice Gang or something. That would be interesting. One problem I have is, is the Atom in Batman Beyond "The Call" the same Atom in DC continuity or a newer guy? I didn't pay attention.

Also, I'm really hoping that the next Aquaman appearance features Black Manta. I mean he was a part of the Legion of Doom for goodness sake. And I'm tempted too start a petition for Capt. Marvel.

[peterparker05]

Originally posted by Harvey Dent
I could see other people joining the League under certain conditions.

Example:

Let's pretend Bruce Timm decided to make the Batman Beyond timeline the official future for any present day DCU animated shows. And let's pretend that he also decided to incorporate the flashback sequence from ROTJ into the current JL timeline. With that in mind, Batman decides that, due to what happened to Robin, he must give Gotham his full attention. In his absence, he suggests that the other League members call upon The Atom to assist them in any scientific or other special capacity until he returns. So for at least one season, we get to see a slightly altered League lineup.

I think the example above would make for some great stories, and you don't have to dumb down or alter your stories to keep Ray in the mix because, unlike Batman, he has superpowers. In a tight situation? Just shrink down to a sub-molecular level and get out of it.

I really like this idea, but I doubt we'll ever see it because Timm and company know that Batman is one of the biggest draws to the show and a fan favorite.

[Karkull]

I like the idea of keeping the team at seven - I remember an interview with some writer saying that seven is the largest number of characters you can have without them splitting evenly into two smaller groups (X-Men notwithstanding).

Now, as for guest appearances, we have Aquaman, five Green Lanterns, Metamorpho, Etrigan the Demon, the Blackhawks, and Sgt. Rock in Season One...and that's pretty good. As for the other names thrown around on this thread, I would really like to see Green Arrow, Captain Marvel, Nightwing (and the Teen Titans), Kyle Rayner, and Plastic Man make appearances.

However, Hawkman would really be redundant (unless it's in a Hawkgirl flashback). Also, we've already had Micron (a futurized version of the Silver Age Atom) and Tom Turbine (the Golden Age Atom) introduced, so is there really anything left for old Ray Palmer?

[ARMquaman]

Originally posted by Karkull
I like the idea of keeping the team at seven - I remember an interview with some writer saying that seven is the largest number of characters you can have without them splitting evenly into two smaller groups (X-Men notwithstanding).

Now, as for guest appearances, we have Aquaman, five Green Lanterns, Metamorpho, Etrigan the Demon, the Blackhawks, and Sgt. Rock in Season One...and that's pretty good. As for the other names thrown around on this thread, I would really like to see Green Arrow, Captain Marvel, Nightwing (and the Teen Titans), Kyle Rayner, and Plastic Man make appearances.

However, Hawkman would really be redundant (unless it's in a Hawkgirl flashback). Also, we've already had Micron (a futurized version of the Silver Age Atom) and Tom Turbine (the Golden Age Atom) introduced, so is there really anything left for old Ray Palmer?

Karkull do you or anyone REALLY care about Metamorpho, Etrigan the Demon, the Blackhawks, and Sgt. Rock(least of all kids)? Those characters are completely a Bruce Timm self indulgence of the highest order?? There is this costant threat that it's not going past two seasons. I consider episodes/characters like that and "War World" a complete waste of valuable episode time. I would hate to think it got cancelled never capitalizing on the opportunity to Green Arrow or Captain Marvel stories. Depriving ALL of us of the long awaited SHAZAM/Captain Marvel vs. Superman slugfest we all want to see. For once just give us what we want!

[ARMquaman]

Originally posted by ARMquaman


Karkull do you or anyone REALLY care about Metamorpho, Etrigan the Demon, the Blackhawks, and Sgt. Rock(least of all kids)? Those characters are completely a Bruce Timm self indulgence of the highest order?? There is this costant threat that it's not going past two seasons. I consider episodes/characters like that and "War World" a complete waste of valuable episode time. I would hate to think it got cancelled never capitalizing on the opportunity to do Green Arrow or Captain Marvel stories. Depriving ALL of us of the long awaited SHAZAM/Captain Marvel vs. Superman slugfest we all want to see. For once just give us what we want!

[The Flash]

Thread closed. 2 in exactly 10 mins... :rolleyes: