I Miss The 'Old' Style...

[James Harvey]

I was watching the 'Sub-Zero' DVD, as well as 'Pretty Poison' and I never realized how much I mised the old style for the animated Batman. Sure the figures were slow moving at times in the early episodes, but the look was so dark and moody. The enwer episodes got a stylized look and dark yes, but not as dark as the original episodes. They were a bit brighter. The old style is somethin that can't be beat. Plus, I also miss seeing Dick Grayson as Robin and Babs, pre-Batcave. I can't wait for the future DVD releases so I can see more of these classic episodes in top form.

[Sugar Daddy]

I always prefered TNBA, mainly because the Batman design was a lot better. But both styles were great.

[I.R Joey]

But you know if you're going to have crossovers with Supes, you're going to have to have a style change ya know.

[James Harvey]

I know, but still. That doesn't really change the fact that I mis the old style. One thing I hope we see on future DVDs is an indepth look at the style changes, and how the new designs came about, etc...I like the new style, I think it's great, but the old one is a bit more special to me mostly for nostalgia purposes.

[The New Batman]

I know I've stated this many times, but the older style was much better.

[Clayface]

I hear ya, Jim, I hear ya. I always preferred the old style myself.

[Green Guardsman]

The biggest offender was the Riddler re-design. Geez, TNBA Riddler design was awful! Not even Joker's or Catwoman's redesign's were as bad! Poison Ivy was okay but could have been better, Penguin's and Scarecrow's TNBA designs were way better! The other characters? Kind of looked the same (except for Croc and Baby Doll) except they had straighter lines.

[Lucky Bob]

The oldies were the goodies. However, I did like the redesign of Joker and Scarecrow. The ones that reeked were the Riddler, the Ventriloquist, and Mr. Freeze.

BTW, did anyone like the new Robin as much as I did? He was underused. Batgirl got too many good jobs.

I didn't like the introduction of Jason Blood. That was when Batman satred to go out of the realm of Gotham, and into the realm of every other superhero that has mystical ablities.

[Green Guardsman]

Originally posted by luckybob1985
The oldies were the goodies. However, I did like the redesign of Joker and Scarecrow. The ones that reeked were the Riddler, the Ventriloquist, and Mr. Freeze.

BTW, did anyone like the new Robin as much as I did? He was underused. Batgirl got too many good jobs.

I didn't like the introduction of Jason Blood. That was when Batman satred to go out of the realm of Gotham, and into the realm of every other superhero that has mystical ablities.

Mr. Freeze didn't look that different for me! And you must be the only person who prefers the TNBA Joker over the original. I prefer the ROTJ/SS/JL Joker design over the BTAS and TNBA versions myself.

[The Penguin]

I would have to agree that I like the old style better for the most part. I would much rather see TNBA Penguin though (with an added cigarette holder).

But I always liked Dick as Robin and it never seems right that Babs is a complete member of the team.

I did like TNBA Scarecrow and Bane better and I never really cared for old Freeze's purple boots, but otherwise (unless I'm forgetting something) TAS all the way!

[Lucky Bob]

BTAS Joker:

http://www.batmantas.com/img/joker3.jpg


TNBA Joker:

http://www.batman-superman.com/batman/img/joker1.gif



Please note the slightly more serious look to the BTAS Joker. I prefer the TNBA one because it really caputured the "clown" in the Joker, without seriously damaging his evil side.

As for Mr Freeze:


BTAS Freeze:

http://www.batmantas.com/img/freeze.gif

TNBA Freeze:

http://www.batman-superman.com/batman/img/freeze1.gif

Mr. Freeze, in addition to losing the glasses, is a cyborg. And plus, he's not modeled after the sympathetic character that we once knew. This design says "pure evil." Enough said?

[Brainiac]

I think that the above pictures of the Joker just further prove how much better he looked in BTAS rather than TNBA...the TNBA Joker style is so simplistic and doesn't capture the full potential of maniacal evil in him. I liked the seriousness, and I think that along with the loss of the seriousness in artistic style wemt the loss of some of the good plots in TNBA, too. The Joker just looked soooo much better in BTAS (although I really like the new ROTJ/JL Joker...).

I did, however, like the new Scarecrow design, and didn't hate the new Mr. Freeze (although I didn't think he needed the change--maybe just taking away the purple boots).

Overall, BTAS all the way!

[Revelator]

Oh boo hoo hoo...4 years have passed and people are still whining about how supposedly superior the blockier, clunkier designs from the first series were.
I agree that the backgrounds from the first series were darker and more atmospheric but that's about all.
Some of the redesigned characters did look more abstract and consequently sometimes more inhuman, but the change was overall quite refreshing. The worst animated episodes of TNBA have greater consistency and remain easier viewing than the poorest BTAS efforst (and there were a lot of sloppily animated entries).
I think comparing a screenshot of the BTAS Joker to a turn model of the TNBA Joker is hardly a fair trick, especially since the BTAS example isn't from one of the many episodes where his face was a saggy, peanut-shaped mass with an awkwardly broken nose. The redesigned Joker at his best had the simple look of a grinning, pointy-featured demon--at worst he looked cartoony, which was still better than the lumpy extremes of the BTAS incarnation.
I liked the second Robin far more than bland Dick Grayson model (as one artist said, Robin's purpose is to make Batman look big--anyway grayson wasn't interesting until he got resentful), and I don't see why it should seem odd for Batgirl to become a full-fledged member of the team--unless one feels leery about allowing female superheroes into the boy's club.
As for complaints about the storylines in TNBA: instead of making a dubious case about how the redesigns somehow affected the plots, why don't we take a look at the differences in writing staffs between BTAS and TNBA? The only writers I can think of who wrote for both were Paul Dini and Alan Burnett. The new guys were people like Stan Berkowitz, Rich Fogel, Robert Goodman and Hillary Bader--these are the same writers who couldn't quite make Batman Beyond come alive. All have done good work but their flaws are apparent--Berkowitz is derivative, Fogel is uninspired, Goodman's uneven and Bader is often shoddy.
If TNBA had different staff writers--and if it had been free from network directives--we might have had a much better season.
Lastly, I liked the Jason blood episode--if you can accept werewolves, Man-bats, lazarus pits, super-robots and cat-men in one season, accepting a bit of magic in another is hardly much of stretch.

[Mattashell]

The Penguin was the only one that looked better.

[Lucky Bob]

Originally posted by Revelator


I think comparing a screenshot of the BTAS Joker to a turn model of the TNBA Joker is hardly a fair trick, especially since the BTAS example isn't from one of the many episodes where his face was a saggy, peanut-shaped mass with an awkwardly broken nose. The redesigned Joker at his best had the simple look of a grinning, pointy-featured demon--at worst he looked cartoony, which was still better than the lumpy extremes of the BTAS incarnation.


Sorry! That was the best picture I could find of the BTAS Joker.


Lastly, I liked the Jason blood episode--if you can accept werewolves, Man-bats, lazarus pits, super-robots and cat-men in one season, accepting a bit of magic in another is hardly much of stretch

I never liked Ra's. The human/creature ones were "genetic" things, which is strectching it a bit, but it was slightly feasible. The super robots, why not? But magic belongs to the other superheroes. Batman is in a class of his own.

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by Revelator
Oh boo hoo hoo...4 years have passed and people are still whining about how supposedly superior the blockier, clunkier designs from the first series were.

Before I jump into the topic, I just wanna say something. I'm a bit offended here. Respect is very important to these boards. You have to respect the other posters (if you can't, then at least pretend to) and their opinions. Putting something like "oh boo hoo hoo" shows to me that you don't respect the opinions of other. Not only that, I'm a bit offending. That comments gives me the assumption that you think anyone who doesn't share your opinion is inferior. All I ask is that you respect the other people and posters here, and that means not putting up snide remarks like "oh boo hoo hoo". When I created these boards, a rule that I made sure everyone knew about was respecting each other. That doesn't mean you have to agree with everyone, all it means is that you be nice to the other posters, even in disagreement. And if you can't do that, and have some respect for the other posters, then you're not going to have a long life here. Being respectful to the other posters here, as well as reading the rules, will more than likely gaurantee you a nice healthy stay here. Ignoring the rules and treating other posters poorly have you banned very quickly. So please, respect the other people here. This will be the only warning you get. If you want to discuss this more, then PM me. Do not bring it up in this thread.

Now....back to the topic...

One thing I liked about TNBA was the redesign that Batgirl got. Her black costume looked much sleeker and dynamic then the grey and blue one from TAS. Sure, the TAS costume looked good, but the TNBA seemed like the next 'step' for her. One thing I thought TNBA went a bit overboard on was the design for most of the female characters, who looked so ridiculously thin, I was surprised they weren't blown away by a gust of wind. I actuall yliked how the TAS gave the characters a bit of a bulky feel to them, becuase the designs actually looked like they could translate to the real worls. The women weren't impossibly thin (although Poison Ivy had this Amazon thing going on) and it looked good.

Tim Drake was also a great highlight for TNBA. The new blood was an interesting twist to the series, even if his head was a bit big for his body. And his spotlight episode Growing Pains was a great episode which really got under his skin. But he can't compare with the late teens/early twenties Dick Grayson, in my opinion. I liked that character and his design. He was portrayed very nicely in alot of episodes, although near the end they just sort of treated him like a one dimension character. Episodes like Robin's Reckoning and the Sub-Zero feature gave im more of a personality.

But as I said, this is all my opinion. TNBA was a nice update on the animated Batman but it will never be as good as the original. I wish WB gave the show a better chance. It deserved more than 24 episodes and there was definatly more room to tell some stories. We never really got into Barbara's life, which I was extremely dissapointed in. Tim Drake's introduction episode was a bit of a let down. TNBA had some great stand out episodes, which the rest were generally fair. I enjoyed TNBA a great much, but BTAS is just a bit extra special for me.

[Borg4of3]

While I have no great qualms against the TNBA style (except poor Riddler, extra-thin Gordon, that lipless and lidless Joker, and how every woman looked like a teenage girl), I find myself liking the BTAS form better. I really can't explain why, but the BTAS format just seems to have a more cinematic and more realistic feel to it. I'm really not sure if its the stories (which, for the most part, do have a different feel to them as well), or the animation style, but that's how I feel about it.

[Simpler Simon]

I'm curious as to why everyone dislikes the Riddler design from TNBA? For me, he was different, but not necessarily worse...he looked slightly more like the comic book version, IMO.

As for the other designs, Bane and Scarecrow were defininite improvements. Mad Hatter looked so much more "imp-ish", he lost the shy charm Jervis Tetch had, but I generally liked the design.

Joker was my least favorite. He just didn't look threatening anymore. They played up his "cute" side too much. Though if you visit Bruce Timm's website, you can see some of his design drawings, and you can understand where he was going with this. The best scene of Joker's redesign was in World's Finest, when he takes the Lexwing for a dive, and you see a close-up of him cackling. Anyone else just *love* that??

Did they modify Harley Quinn at all?? I can see where they altered Two-Face, but not Harley. Can someone pull up a good pic of Harley from the old and new designs to compare?

[The Flash]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
Sure the figures were slow moving at times in the early episodes, but the look was so dark and moody.

And at the same time, the TNBA characters had really small feet with huge upper bodies. They both had their mistakes. BTAS has always been my favorite, it's what got me hooked. After comparing the two, I still think it's better. BTAS was more realistic, while TNBA seemed cartoony. Long live BTAS! :)

[Clayface]

Besides the Joker, the Scarecrow is the redesign I hate the most - they completely ignored everything in his design that made him what he was! They turned him into a cheap zombie character, and did away with all the important aspects of his design. Ugh, it drives me crazy every time I look at it.

I liked the new Batman costume, and the new Penguin redesigns. Other than that, I preferred the older style designs.

[Simpler Simon]

Besides the Joker, the Scarecrow is the redesign I hate the most - they completely ignored everything in his design that made him what he was! They turned him into a cheap zombie character, and did away with all the important aspects of his design. Ugh, it drives me crazy every time I look at it.

I hated the Scarecrow design when I first saw it (geez, is it really him underneath all that? and a noose?!) but after awhile, I started to like it much better than the others. My original favourite was the design Scarecrow had for "Nothing to Fear", but on the DVD Timm mentioned that the animators never got the jerkiness right. If they'd been able to perfect that movement, that would probably be the one I like most.

[The Flash]

Originally posted by Clayface
Besides the Joker, the Scarecrow is the redesign I hate the most - they completely ignored everything in his design that made him what he was! They turned him into a cheap zombie character, and did away with all the important aspects of his design. Ugh, it drives me crazy every time I look at it.


Amen! That's exactly what I thought when I first saw it. ...and I still don't like it. If he ever makes an appearance on JL I hope they use the BTAS design... or at the least, a mix of all 3 of the designs.

[Mattashell]

I don't like the new Barb and Drake (well the only Drake.) Barb's limbs and torso are like sticks and her head is massive like a beach ball. The same is true of Tim. Barb seems to have shrunk in stature sinse her B:TAS days, and Tim is to young for Batman to make him go out jumping rooftops and brawling with armed thugs.

The Mad Hatter is probably one of the worst of the redesigns in my opinion, as he seems to have gone from human to troll.

On the Joker issue, how is he a clown. The original had green hair, white face and red lips. The new has black hair, dots for eyes and no detectable lips. His complection is now blue, which is not traditional for a clown. He just looks like a grinning blue guy with dots for eyes, more of a badly drawn cartoon dracula or something than Joker.

[Joe Tully]

BTAS was always my favorite. It just seems more realistic and 3D. The TNBA Scarecrow has grown on me, but the other redesigns fell flat for me. I've complained in the past about how I think the TNBA Penguin looks like Mr. Peanut. :p And Catwoman looked more like Chihuahua Girl. I think that part of it is that I was used to the BTAS designs and so wound up comparing the TNBA designs to those, but I still think that BTAS was better looking overall.

[Mattashell]

Your right about Catwoman, what an awful redesign. Not just the model, but the prsonality was totally wrecked as well.

[Joker85]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
I was watching the 'Sub-Zero' DVD, as well as 'Pretty Poison' and I never realized how much I mised the old style for the animated Batman. Sure the figures were slow moving at times in the early episodes, but the look was so dark and moody. The enwer episodes got a stylized look and dark yes, but not as dark as the original episodes. They were a bit brighter. The old style is somethin that can't be beat. Plus, I also miss seeing Dick Grayson as Robin and Babs, pre-Batcave. I can't wait for the future DVD releases so I can see more of these classic episodes in top form.
I absolutely agree! While I enjoyed TNBA, I never really was happy with the new designs. They just didn't look right. The old designs were the best on ALL of the characters(yes, even Penquin) the detail put in them was amazing, and detail is something very much missing from all the other incarnations including JL. I hope we can get some more DTVS soon!

[Batman49]

I liked the BTAS design better than TNBA design but it did grow on me. I still do prefer the BTAS design though. What I also missed where the title cards. Those were great pieces of art. The redesign I hated the most was Selina Kyle and the Riddler designs. They didn't look right to me. I just can't wait until all the episodes are on DVD.

[Revelator]

I've returned to dispute mass opinion despite slapped wrists. The TNBA designs are step closer to the abstract, hyper-stylized designs found on Samurai Jack. They seem to have alienated fans who basically would have been content with a moving comic book. (Or "G.I. Joe")
The designs are upsetting if one construes them as dehumanizing. The Riddler was revamped to look thinner, more devious and garish, in contrast with the earlier design, which looked capable of giving nothing more malicious than a smirk. The newer version has the thiness and contours of living exclamation mark.
Catwoman now seems like far more of an actual cat-burglar--slinkier, all black and with an inscrutably smiling face, topped off with alluringly opaque eyes. It's far easier to envision this catwoman as a sneaky creature of the night. In any case, I can't recall a single Catwoman story that was above average to begin with. She had far more character in Batman Returns.
Scarecrow was another mediocrity of a villain until his sole starring episode in TNBA--he was a one-note, thin character to begin with. His latest design makes him positively inhuman, which is at least an improvement, since he wasn't much of a human to begin with. A similar thing happened with the Mad Hatter, but since it wasn't likely that any more semi-tragic stories would be made with him I have no problem with him looking like the actual Mad Hatter from the Alice books.
The TNBA Joker didn't have a blue face (adjust the color bar on your TV) and his inverse eyes directly correspond to his personality, which inverts everything Batman fights for by turning it into a meaningless joke. Timm had used this effect on the Joker before, (look at him in his angrier moments in Mad love and Timm's other comic work) and if the animators couldn't quite master this demonic touch, it was still a compelling design.
If people want 3D detail from a cartoon they're better off watching a live action movie in the first place. Those supposedly cinematic details in the original series usually hampered the visual flow. I'd place over half of the episodes from the first series in the mediocre-or-under bin. What's worst of all is the lack of overall consistency--even a finely animated episode like "Almost Got 'Im" got away with characters far removed from Timm's model sheets. Even the worst-animated TNBA episodes, like the one featuring the Ventrioloquist, featured a far greater consistency of detail and fluidity of movement than atrocities like 'Be a Clown,' 'I've Got Batman In my Basement' and 'Christmas With the Joker.' Even important episodes like 'Two Face Part 2' and 'The Laughing Fish' suffer from erratic, unworthy animation that reduces the characters to sagging, fleshy automatons, whose movements were either anatomically laughable or badly paced. (The visual quality of BTAS was almost totally on the mercy of the studios they sent each episode to.)
Finally, what seems most puzzling is the near-uniformity of response on this thread. On wonders how much simple nostalgia accounts for the total preference of the BTAS designs, or the simple reluctancy to accept change. An opinion like "TNBA was a nice update on the animated Batman but it will never be as good as the original" skirts rather close to pure dogmatism. One could make the inverse case that in considering the episode ratios, BTAS suffered from far more sloppy animation and mediocre writing jobs than TNBA, which maintained a level amount of quality (I include "Critters," which I consider far superior to "Moon of the Wolf" or "I am the night."). I doubt that Timm, Dini or company read these message boards but if they do I hope they won't presume that the fans automatically preferred the older, flabbier designs. Some of us admired the crew for taking the risk of fixing what wasn't totally broken--and think that the gamble paid off. Like Timm, I have trouble watching some of the older episodes in hindsight.
I missed the title cards and older backgrounds, but aside from that I hope never to see those old designs again.

[jm5150bc]

I think the thing that I miss most about B:TAS and it's style is really the richness of how it looked. It was so atmospheric and colorful at the same time and just very rich and film-noir looking much of the time. None of the shows that came after have captured that element in nearly the same way, especially now that they are not done in cel animation and hand-painted backgrounds, which just looks so much richer than the computer-colored newer shows.

I liked many of the TNBA re-designs, and I'll probably be in the minority when I say I really liked most of the female ones (Catwoman excluded- hated that one, both in and out of costume). I really liked the Tim Drake Robin, big head and all... it made him look like a kid, like he should- and I liked that the green was gone from the costume... just seemed a little more "stealthy" to me. Didn't like the Joker- only looked good in "World's Finest", thought that the Riddler redo was a joke (and an obvious WB decision to make him look more "Jim Carrey"). The red Gotham sky was great .

All that said, though, I really miss that B:TAS richness- and the more psycological stories...

[Joker85]

Like I said, the original BTAS had more detail. In it, Bruce Wayne looked like Bruce Wayne, he had a sloppy lokking coat and a grin. In TNBA, he looked just like Batman except without a cape!! And Gordon looked like he had just suffered a major stroke, not to mention the fact that Alfred looks almost oriental. Joker's trademark red lips disappeared and Riddler looked about as threatening as Cotton Candy. The Scarecrow looked like a living zombie not a human being(which is what he is, despite the costume). Thats the whole point, they looked more like Samurai Jack and all those other shows which I personally don't care for the animation. I learned to live with it over time, for what choice did I have??
And BTW, if you put over half of the BTAS in the mediocre pile, then we obviously weren't watching the same show!

[James Harvey]

Remember these are all our opinions. Just becuase people prefer the old version doesn't mean anything except...they prefer the old version. It's not really something difficult to comprehend. I agree on all counts why TNBA is a great style, but I will always prefer the original version. I love the retro-esque designs and the moody art. I love that 1940's-esque feel to the series. All of that was lost when TNBA was updated. Maybe if TNBA had a long run (of...say...I dunno 85 episodes, are ya listenin' WB?) then a better comparison could be made. Aside from a few psycological episodes, alot of the TNBA episodes were 'get from plot A to plot B' by throwing fists. Alot of the episodes just gave into constant fist fights and all out brawls. While that is a good way to blow 19 minutes (a regular episode of Batman in 1997 was only 19 minutes. 'Mean Seasons' was the shortest episode, clocking in at under 18 minutes).

I don't have a hard time watching the old series. Yes, there were some really horribly animated episodes (I've Got A Batman In My Basement, Moon of The Wolf), but I can overlook alot of those becuase the series was just getting off the ground, and was taking it's time to find it's style. I like both BTAS and TNBA. I considered both 'series' to be one show, they just tweaked the designs awhile through. I new style is good and I enjoy it, but the old BTAS still had an edge to it's design that was lost when 1997 came around. Does it mean either style is inferior? Of course not. Have the new designs alienated me? No...not at all. It just means that I miss the old style, and there is nothing wrong with that. I miss seeing the yellow oval. I miss seeing Dick Grayson as Robin. I miss seeing Freeze with a body. That's all. But I also enjoy Tim Drake as Robin. I like Grayson as Nightwing (he had some killer scenes in Animal Act). I like the redesign that Bane got.

This shouldn't be a debate on which design is better, becuase that is a debate that neither side will ever win. I was just stating my opinion.

[Borg4of3]

I revisited both Heart of Ice and Over the Edge to try to get more of an objective approach at this topic. For starters, tho, nostalgia wasn't my initial reasoning. I still consider the BTAS format better, but with, hopefully, more thoughtful reasoning. First off, Timm designed both shows with the aims of animation in mind. Namely, less detail equals more fluid animation. When TNBA came out, they dropped the detail even further, and while it does help out bigtime in production and animation quality, I think they lost too much detail. Something BTAS did that no other cartoon has done was make the characters believable and human, even with the lack of excess detail. But TNBA, while still very 'Batman-like', makes it look too much like your stereotypical cartoon. Expressions, while more fluid, lack the 'lines' enough to be portrayed to their fullest. For a harsh example, in OtE, when Robin screams as Batgirl falls, he looks like Bugs Bunny with his eyes popping out.

Personally, I think Timm found a good balance between animation quality and art quality in BTAS, wheras he mastered animation quality in TNBA.

[Revelator]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joker85
"Like I said, the original BTAS had more detail."

There's as much art in refining detail down to a reduced set of lines as in piling it on and clutering a composition.

"In it, Bruce Wayne looked like Bruce Wayne, he had a sloppy lokking coat and a grin. In TNBA, he looked just like Batman except without a cape!!"

I must have missed Batman's light-blue eyes then. The TNBA looks like an internalization of the Batman character, and not a put-on persona. He's sleek and airily handsome, with just a touch of frigidity in the eyes, and that iciness marks him just as much with Batman than if he had been wearing a cape. So no, I don't miss the put-on Bruce Wayne with his badly broken Dick Tracy nose.


" And Gordon looked like he had just suffered a major stroke"

I've never understood this complaint. Why should Gordon, an old man with a grown daughter and a desk job, look like a beefy beat cop? Leave the bulk to Bullock.


"not to mention the fact that Alfred looks almost oriental"

This, along with Two Face's redesign, is one of the two revamps that I won't defend.

"Riddler looked about as threatening as Cotton Candy"

The old Riddler certainly did. The newer one is more wiry and sinister looking. The old one looked like an eccentric buisnesman.

"The Scarecrow looked like a living zombie not a human being(which is what he is, despite the costume)."

Just what was so human about the cardboard dummy who featured in 'Nothing to Fear' and the football episode? The animated Scarecrow had a miniscule personality compared to his comics counterpart. If they want to make him into a living zombie that's fine with me. i was sick of the old one anyway.

"Thats the whole point, they looked more like Samurai Jack and all those other shows which I personally don't care for the animation. "

Shows that thankfully seem to be growing trend. The ultra-stylized cartoon maximizes the ultra-fluidity and shifting geometry that only animation fully provides. For a world of detail fans there are comic books, and for spatial depth there are always movies. Animation seems to be moving to the point of becoming a active embodiment of the figures and shapes from Matisse's "Jazz," and this emergence of experimental sylization into the mainstream is quite exciting.

"And BTW, if you put over half of the BTAS in the mediocre pile, then we obviously weren't watching the same show!"

I assure you that we were. But my feelings toward the show, though drenched in childhood nostalgia, are no longer so permissive or forgiving. The reason why I won't buy the new DVD is precisely because I don't want to fork out $15 for digital copies of mediocre episodes like The Last Laugh, X-Mas With the Joker or Nothing to Fear.

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

I definitly miss the old style...wasn't it mentioned that there was supposed to be a DTV in that style...I like that style much better.

[James Harvey]

This thread was created so people could talk about the old style (not to whine about TNBA replacing it), but the thread is quickly desolving into a banter back and forth between which style seems to be better. That is not what this thread is meant for. If you want, I'll open a thread where people can compare the styles (although that thread will dwindle into a flame thread, which is likely). All I wanna do in this thread is talk about the old style. That's it. No comparisons to TNBA. Just talk about the old style. That's all. So please, keep that in mind when replying to this thread. This thread just seems to be a fight back and forth to try and determine which style is better. If this continues, then the thread will be closed.

So please...talk about the 'Old Style'...

[Green Guardsman]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
This thread was created so people could talk about the old style (not to whine about TNBA replacing it), but the thread is quickly desolving into a banter back and forth between which style seems to be better. That is not what this thread is meant for. If you want, I'll open a thread where people can compare the styles (although that thread will dwindle into a flame thread, which is likely). All I wanna do in this thread is talk about the old style. That's it. No comparisons to TNBA. Just talk about the old style. That's all. So please, keep that in mind when replying to this thread. This thread just seems to be a fight back and forth to try and determine which style is better. If this continues, then the thread will be closed.

So please...talk about the 'Old Style'...

yes. please make a thread where we can compare the old and new styles! Let me make the forum please. Than that way you don't have to worry about doing it because it will already be done! That's what i'm here for, to be friendly and help everyone as much as i can!

[James Harvey]

please make a thread where we can compare the old and new styles! Let me make the forum please..

I can do it myself, but thanks for the offer. Even if I don't start a thread, I still have to overlook it. The mods overlook al threads, regardless of whom has opened it, etc...

I'll make the thread. Now - back on topic, please :)