The most OVERATED cartoon character of all time [Archive]

Sogturtle

07-24-2001, 12:47 PM

Taz is a VILLAIN!!! and not to be confused with the bonafide stars (Bugs, Daffy, Tom & Jerry, Porky, even Mickey or Donald) per se!!! As such he should be classed with Elmer J. Fudd, Witch Hazel, Marvin, Gossamer, and Yosemite Sam... And treated accordingly!! (And on the day that Warner's starts doing that???...:)).

The lay-public actually believes Taz starred in more than that tiny handful of cartoons where Bugs (or in the one case, Daffy) beat the bejeebers out of him. I've had people try to argue with me about it in stores!! Crazy...

As regards Scooby... Yeah he was/is historically an HB TV character. But just like when WB bought Schlesinger in '44, their purchase of Turner in '96 would (in their minds) make Scooby into a Warner character. Blecccccccch!!! (good thing I didn't eat anything this morning!!! ;)). I REALLY dislike that notion!!! Thank God I can dismiss him as a limited-animation TV character!!!

The reason why only Scooby and Crappy (oops!, I mean Shaggy) are the only merchandised characters really relates to their function in the show(s) as opposed to the other characters. All of the others are disposable from any plotline and could just as well be replaced by plastic-lawn-furniture. Orrrr by any other characters. The dumb Great Dane and dopey Shaggy carry every plot, and reap nearly every laugh. In essence they are all effectively very stiff straightmen. And very few people want a lunchbox, toothbrush, or fuzzy-slippers that look like a cartoon straightman.

As for my vote for most over-rated... The Mouse won, ears down. Bland, bland, bland. (Course judging from his size he qualifies as a rat, and who REALLY likes animals that carry PLAGUE??) ;):D

J Lee

07-24-2001, 02:46 PM

The mouse with the bowling ball ears definitely. Outside of "The Sorcerer's Apprentice," you would really be hard put to name a Mickey Mouse cartoon made after 1935 that couldn't have been reworked easily into a story for Buddy, and we all know how exciting a character he was.

To many people out there, Mickey remains the No. 1 cartoon character of all time --- just so long as they don't actually have to sit down and watch three or four of his cartoons in a row. Most of the Warners characters (OK, maybe not Sniffles or those Daffy-Speedy combos) don't present a similar problem.

Nelson

07-24-2001, 03:56 PM

I most for TAZ...I think he's the most OVERATED Looney Tunes character of all time

Jack

07-24-2001, 05:00 PM

I added "other" for Thad, but I voted for Taz. He's everywhere, and becoming more and more prominent as a LT character. Just like WB cannot animate a commercial with Daffy without shoving Bugs into (thus causing the really worn out rivalry) it, they now really can't make a piece on non-tweety merchandise that doesn't have Taz on it. I've seen Taz and Bugs wearing gangster clothes on more T-Shirts than I can stand.

I like Taz and all, he made a good foil for Bugs and Daffy, but he was never intended to be a well rounded stand alone star.

Jack:D
P.S. I also meet people who think Taz appeared in many cartoons. He's really more of a minor character, Sniffles and the Drunk Stork are more major than Taz.

Garrett

07-24-2001, 08:20 PM

I voted squarely for other, as there can be no one overrated character.

Classic WB-Probably Taz or Michigan J. Frog. Although Taz had Tazmania in the 90s, which (at the time) justified his large exposure.

G.I. Joe-Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow. You know, if Larry Hama wasn't such a boob, cartoon fans would actually like these guys. But, since the comic is better, :rolleyes: we have then to thank for ninjamania.

Classic Disney-Goofy. God, he got so unfunny after he lost his voice....

There are certainly others, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment....

Garrett

Emmanuel Cruz

07-24-2001, 09:08 PM

I voted for Taz also. He only appeared in 6 cartoons and he was never popular in the 1950's -1980's. When all of a sudden he gets his own TV show and gets tons, I repeat, TONS of merchandise of himself? How can a character be liked overnight if it took him 40 years to become popular? Porky is my second favorite character and the only dang merchandise he's on is a talking clock! (by the way, I have that.) He was the first star at WB and he's forgetten now. Such a great pig being beaten by a slobbering beast. Porky became an instant success and Speedy also. Porky and Speedy are 100 times better than Taz. It sickens me when a character that was an instant success is outstaged by a character it took 40 years for people to say, WOW he's great!

I tell you, my brother's girlfriend had so much Taz stuff, it made me scream!

Sveven Dvorking

07-24-2001, 09:19 PM

I am one of the many people who voted for the Tasmanian Devil. He is a minor character with major merchandising. Sniffles appeared in twice as many cartoons, but the Drunken Stork... I don't think so. I'll say again that the Daffy/Speedys are very enjoyable cartoons, despite the bad reputation they get around here.

daftchris

07-25-2001, 12:01 AM

I voted "other", as the character I had in mind was Wile E. Coyote. He's not as everywhere as Taz, but that's not what I had in mind. So often I've heard Jones speak with such pride about the Coyote/Road Runner cartoons, while completely ignoring characters suck as Claude Cat, or Hubie and Bertie, for example, who are, in my opinion, much funnier.

But not just Chuck. Cartoons fans love the Coyote & Road Runner cartoons. I just don't find them all that funny. But mayve that's just because the gags are all tattooed on my brain by now.

Something like the over-merchandising of Taz or Tweety or the over-airing of Scooby Doo doesn't count, to me, as being over-rated, but over-exposed.

Out of curiosity, who voted for Bugs? And why?

L00nE2n

07-25-2001, 09:03 AM

Count me down for Taz. I like Taz, but I still think he is overrated. His TV show IMO was created to justify all the merchandise. In a way I can sort of understand why he is so overused. It's because of his lack of character. When using Bugs, WB has to think "What would Bugs do in this situation?" (of course that doesn't stop him from being used repeatedly out of character today.) With Taz, Taz has no personality, so they can use him in pretty much any situation. DarkEJ310, you are wrong about his popularity in the '50's through the '80's. He was probably as popular then as he is today. His name "Taz" in fact was created when WB read a fan letter regarding him. As far as the second most overrated, I might agree with Garrett about Michigan J. Frog, but I have the same theory about his overuse. Third most overrated, I'd agree with the guy who voted for Tweety. Although he appeared in enough cartoons to justify his popularity, through most of his cartoons he just stood there and watched Sylvester beat himself. Anyway, in short, WB loves characters that they don't have to think about and that's why they're so overrated.

dendawg

07-25-2001, 09:18 AM

You forgot the most annoying of all time, bar none----Scrappy Doo!:D :D

Larry T

07-25-2001, 05:47 PM

He's on more T-shirts, Gym sponsorships, Truck decals, air fresheners, baseball caps, tattoo stencils, beach towels ...etc.etc.etc (oh- I didn't check if he's on toilet paper, too).... than BUGS BUNNY!! AND FEATURED (notice I didn't say STARRED) IN ONLY FIVE CARTOONS???? Oh, the humanity!!

I totally agree about his lame TV series being solely a vehicle for his merchandise. He only represents the testosterone-induced idol for the lower-functioning male wannabes..... just the same as Tweety is doing for the female set (I asked a neighbour who has Tweety everything in her car, clothing, and figurines which Tweety cartoon is her favourite. She replied, "Well, I can't think of one right now, but I think Tweety's the best!".)

Well, since he was in only five cartoons as well, I'd like to see an Inki T-shirt someday :mad: ......

Sveven Dvorking

07-25-2001, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by Larry T
I'd like to see an Inki T-shirt someday:mad:

I am sure that was sarcasm, not anger. Not only is Inki considered PIC, he is also forgotten by everyone except the true cartoon fan.

If Michigan J. Frog was an option, I would have voted for him. He appeared in ONE classic cartoon, yet he appears on the WB logo. Plain ridiculous! It would make more sense to publicize Dodsworth than him. Dodsworth appeared in more classic cartoons!

don Jaime

07-26-2001, 08:24 AM

Agreed, and as much as I don't like Dodsworth, I'd rather watch him than One Froggy Evening again.

hippety hopper

07-26-2001, 08:36 AM

I voted for Taz,I don't really need to explain why because all of you said what I wanted to anyway!

p.s. I agree with all your Scooby doo remarks,he is sooooooo annoying!

Sveven Dvorking

07-26-2001, 08:25 PM

After reading this thread, I won't want to watch Taz anymore.
Too bad 5 of his cartoons are classic WBs.:mad: :(

I actually never cared for the character anyway:D

David Gerstein

07-27-2001, 03:23 AM

Hey, everyone...

As far as cartoons go, yes... Mickey Mouse is overrated as far as the *typical* modern conception of the character (bland, boring smiling nice guy) goes. An important thing to note, though, is that everywhere *but* the USA, he is still the star of comics that show him as a feisty, adventurous little guy with some wild adventures and wilder enemies. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that the comics Mickey is responsible for most of the character's worldwide popularity today.
As for his popularity in the USA, I'm afraid it's for the wrong reasons (cuteness, recognizability, perceived sweetness) :-( I think, though, that discriminating Mouse fans like him for the good reasons... and that with the actually quite large amount of quality material that has been done/is being done with him, he's not in fact overrated.
A few overrated characters IMHO:
Scooby (join the crowd!)
Taz (I like him, but yes, very overrated)
Tweety (same here)
Speedy (I think he's overrated among *us*! Maybe his "forbidden fruit" status may have given him a popularity that exceeds his usefulness as a character?)
Chip 'n' Dale

David Gerstein

Sveven Dvorking

07-27-2001, 04:15 PM

How could that be? I think Tweety is one of the better WB characters, second only to Road Runner/Coyote.

I really like Speedy Gonzales. Having now seen all his cartoons, I would say he ties with Tweety for second.

lislebartman

07-27-2001, 10:59 PM

Since all of you who also voted for Taz have said what I can, why be redundant?

Taz, definately Taz!:D

Mibbitmaker

07-29-2001, 01:31 AM

I'm going to be a pariah here :D , but I don't think of Taz as overrated. The excess of junk with him on it is indeed unfortunate, but he's a great unhinged cartoon character. He mainly suffers from one thing: He appeared in McK cartoons too late. It's a shame he couldn't've been animated in 1946-50. THEN he'd been done right!
I voted "other" for Scooby Doo, mainly. I didn't vote Mickey because my overrated rating would be for Disney shorts in general. This despite the fact that Donald(that temper) and Goofy(the name says it all!) are good characters.
One more thing on Taz... Imagine if he'd been animated by CLAMPETT'S unit(maybe suggested by McK)? :) :) :)
AH, I can DRRRREAM, can't I?

frogboxer

04-25-2002, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Thad K
I voted definitly for Taz. He's on so much d@#$ merchandise, and he starred in, what, six cartoons? Where's all the Porky Pig merchandise? Speedy Gonzales merchandise? Road Runner merchandise? Heck, if someone at WB started a popularity poll, Taz would probably win! He's on more merchandise than Bugs Bunny for cryin' out loud! In fact, I don't think his cartoons were that great.....

I totally agree, except that "Bedevilled Rabbit" is pretty darn good in my opinion.

Cartoon King

04-25-2002, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Thad K
Okay we've already have had the most underated cartoon star, so let's have a vote on the most OVERATED cartoon star....

-Thad:D

Ahh! Another old post resurfaces...

I was wanting to change my vote to other for Gary Coleman. It seems that's all I hear about lately!!! Enough is Enough! :p

rodney

04-25-2002, 01:44 PM

Easily, Taz is the most over-rated. Even the good Taz cartoons are over-played to the point where I can't bear to watch them anymore. It's absurd.

Not to mention how he graces 10 billion bootleg stickers on rusty old pick up trucks, and graces the forearm of many a redneck.

cartoongirl

05-01-2002, 10:29 AM

My most overated cartoon character would be Tom & Jerry.

rodney

05-01-2002, 11:00 AM

That's interesting. Why do you say that?

J. J. Hunsecker

05-01-2002, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by Thad K
Okay we've already have had the most underated cartoon star, so let's have a vote on the most OVERATED cartoon star....

-Thad:D

I voted "other," meaning:

1. Crappy Doo --does anybody actually like this cartoon? Why does Cartoon Network air this @#$%&* thing 10 hours a day? CN censors the Looney Tunes but leaves Scooby untouched when Shaggy is obviously a hophead with the munchies, Velma is a lesbian, and Fred and that red-headed girl (what's her name?) are obviously shacking up.

2. Rugrats --What is wrong with todays youth!? And why do their parents let them watch this dull mindrot? Include the Emmy voters in with this bunch. I just don't get the appeal and popularity of this show. And it looks ugly!!

3. Yucko, ****o & Snot --The ever-annoying Animaniacs were, for some inexplicable reason, popular. Go figure. The shows were written by grave robbers who stole from the deceased creators of Looney Tunes. Although, at least they tried to be funny, compared to Rugrats.

4. Hank Hill (from King of the Hill)--a very popular character from this live-action cartoon, but he and the entire cast are ugly, ugly designs! A real eyesore, know whut ah mean?

5. The Simpsons (entire cast)--Bart was voted as the best cartoon of the century (or something like that) in Time magazines worthless poll a few years ago. Bart obviously cribbed his act from Bugs Bunny! Where is the justice in this world? The show stopped being funny after the forth season, and yet still creaks along.

6. (Tie) Casper the Friendly Dead Child/Mighty Mouse--Do these two count? They're in some sort of popularity limbo. They were never really that popular, but they've never completely gone away either. Casper had several live-action movies and a new cartoon based on the movie in recent years. Mighty Mouse was only good in the Bakshi parody on CBS in the early Eighties.

7. Rocky and Bullwinkle --These characters were funny when I first saw them as a child, but they have dated poorly. The original shows don't stand up to repeated viewings like the Looney Tunes do, and yet critics and parental groups rave about the show. I think the shows were good but does it really deserve all that adulation? And a live-action movie?

8. Mickey Mouse --Disney's main character was good in his first few shorts from 1928 up until the late thirties, but his character was softened and sanitized to please the self-appointed moral guardians of the time. Real Mickey was then taken over by Zombie Mickey and not even the "Sorcerer's Apprentice" could save him.

Jeez, I'm just getting started but I'd better quit here. I could go on and on, what with Johnny Bravo (the other show Cartoon Network constantly plays when they are not busy showing Scooby Doo), Cat-Dog , and all that other crap on Dtv.

chuckamuck43

05-02-2002, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by J. J. Hunsecker

Hank Hill (from King of the Hill)--a very popular character from this live-action cartoon, but he and the entire cast are ugly, ugly designs! A real eyesore, know whut ah mean?

Indeed they are, J.J., but even some of Tex Avery's character designs (outside of Red Hot Riding Hood, who owes more to Preston Blair than Tex) are IMHO sometimes unattractive too. This show isn't meant to compete with the beauty and brevity of Classic cartoon animation. King Of The Hill is an animated SITCOM, and as such, it succeeds admirably. Peggy, Bobby and Dale are some of the funniest characters on TV.

The Simpsons (entire cast)--Bart was voted as the best cartoon of the century (or something like that) in Time magazines worthless poll a few years ago. Bart obviously cribbed his act from Bugs Bunny! Where is the justice in this world? The show stopped being funny after the forth season, and yet still creaks along.

I disagree.

Huckleberry Finn is Bart's prototype. Brer Rabbit is Bugs' prototype. Best Cartoon Character of The Century? You're right, that poll was wortless! My grandpa thought Mickey Mouse was the best cartoon character he ever saw, my vote goes to Bugs, and my kids, while they love both Mickey and Bugs, like Bart best. It's a generational thing, J.J., but all three of them are pop cultural icons.

I love the Simpsons. Like Looney Tunes I can watch the episodes over and over and still laugh at them and catch things I missed the first time. No, it's not as consistantly funny as it once was, but there are still good laughs in the newer episodes.

And it beats hell out of most of the other stuff out there. (Classic Animation excepted:)!)

Jeez, I'm just getting started but I'd better quit here. I could go on and on, what with Johnny Bravo (the other show Cartoon Network constantly plays when they are not busy showing Scooby Doo), Cat-Dog , and all that other crap on Dtv.

I hear you, brother! And BTW welcome to the TTTP family. We're less dysfunctional than the Osbornes, but more fun...:D

J. J. Hunsecker

05-02-2002, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by chuckamuck43

Indeed they are, J.J., but even some of Tex Avery's character designs (outside of Red Hot Riding Hood, who owes more to Preston Blair than Tex) are IMHO sometimes unattractive too. This show isn't meant to compete with the beauty and brevity of Classic cartoon animation. King Of The Hill is an animated SITCOM, and as such, it succeeds admirably. Peggy, Bobby and Dale are some of the funniest characters on TV.

I understand what you mean about Avery's character designs (actually, I really like them) but I disagree with the comparison to King of the Hill. Avery's characters at least move in a funny and cartoonish way, yet are still believable, and the designs don't hinder the animation the way the designs for "King" do. The characters in Avery's cartoons also look and move dimensionally, whereas in "King" they look...wrong. The characters in King of the Hill are inexpresssive and move in a robotic and wooden way. This wouldn't be so bad except the creators present the show as if it is a slice of reality. Why is it even animated? It could be shot in live-action for much cheaper. I agree the show can be funny, but it's all in the writing. The animation is just an adjuct to the words. I enjoyed Judge's Beavis and Butthead, but the crude designs worked in that show's favor (indeed, it looked as if it had been drawn by the two lead cretins).

Huckleberry Finn is Bart's prototype. Brer Rabbit is Bugs' prototype. Best Cartoon Character of The Century? You're right, that poll was wortless! My grandpa thought Mickey Mouse was the best cartoon character he ever saw, my vote goes to Bugs, and my kids, while they love both Mickey and Bugs, like Bart best. It's a generational thing, J.J., but all three of them are pop cultural icons.

Hmmmm...could be. Certainly one could find similarities to Huck Finn and Brer Rabbit for Bart and Bugs (I think Bart's true roots go back to the Harvard Lampoon). I just meant that Bugs was the wise-ass before Bart was, and Time only chose Bart because their memories are short. I think the Simpsons also has more in common with Looney Tunes than just that. Both cartoons are aimed at adults. Both have an irreverent sense of humor. Both contain elements of satire. Both became more conservative as time went on. The Simpsons also has a lot in common with King of the Hill.

I just think that the Simpsons' best days are behind them. They've gotten awfully desperate in the last few years. There have been lots of celebrity guest voices lately, they have killed off Ned's wife (a terrible idea!), married off Apu, exposed Skinner as a fraud, etc. Just about every episode seems to involve a career change for Homer.

As for the generational thing, I think it is more a personal preference thing and that age doesn't play into it that much. After all, I enjoy such modern cartoons as Ren & Stimpy, Sponge Bob Squarepants, Wallace & Gromit, Toy Story and the Power Puff Girls. I know children who like old cartoons as well as the new Disney features and tv shows like Hey, Arnold (ugh, if that show were more popular I would have nominated it also).

I hear you, brother! And BTW welcome to the TTTP family. We're less dysfunctional than the Osbornes, but more fun...:D

Thanks!

Larry T

05-02-2002, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by J. J. Hunsecker

Hmmmm...could be. Certainly one could find similarities to Brer Rabbit for Bugs

Hmmm- at the risk of being picky here, Bugs was established at least 5 years before Song of the South was even released, which was 1945. There's no way Bugs' manner was influenced by Br'er Rabbit- besides, even though SOTS was based on literature, Bugs' formation was well in the works characterwise in at least four different types in the early cartoons, not necessarily mimicking Br'er Rabbit's (think the magician Bugs (Presto Change-o), the Groucho Bugs (Elmer's Candid Camera), the Looney Tuney Bugs (Hare-um Scare-um) and the Antagonist Bugs (Tortoise Beats Hare)... they were obviously trying to get a character that works).

I just think that the Simpsons' best days are behind them. They've gotten awfully desperate in the last few years. There have been lots of celebrity guest voices lately, they have killed off Ned's wife (a terrible idea!), married off Apu, exposed Skinner as a fraud, etc. Just about every episode seems to involve a career change for Homer.

You're not just whistling Dixie, brother!! I have been saying that since the start of the fifth season. As soon as the celebrity voices started appearing as themselves and the other Springfieldians basically had a story written around them, the downhill slide had become. When there's no more inventiveness to be had with your original cast of five, it's time to do something else..... I can't stand to watch any of the more recent episodes at all, they're just too painfully desperate. Good thing for DVD box sets of the early years and the Tracey Ullman show :cool: .

chuckamuck43

05-02-2002, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by Larry T

Hmmm- at the risk of being picky here, Bugs was established at least 5 years before Song of the South was even released, which was 1945. There's no way Bugs' manner was influenced by Br'er Rabbit.

J.J. and I are referring to the original Br'er Rabbit, from Joel Chandler Harris' books. Harris collected and published the folktales told to him by African slaves.

In those tales, Br'er Rabbit is pursued by a variety of villians, but he always outwits his captors and makes them look ridiculous.

Sound familiar?

As for Bart & Crew -
Some of my favorite episodes revolve around other Springfieldians. There is such a rich secondary cast that sometimes I wish they'd give the family a rest and focus on the supporting players a bit more.

I do agree that those episodes in which celebrities portray themselves are crap.

Finally, I think season 8 is when the series began its slide.

Just my opinion, which, with a few bucks added, will buy you a latte...:D

rodney

05-02-2002, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by J. J. Hunsecker

7. Rocky and Bullwinkle --These characters were funny when I first saw them as a child, but they have dated poorly. The original shows don't stand up to repeated viewings like the Looney Tunes do, and yet critics and parental groups rave about the show. I think the shows were good but does it really deserve all that adulation? And a live-action movie?

I couldn't disagree more. I think very few TV cartoons were done as well as this one. The art was perfectly irreverant, the jokes were *very* clever, and the cast was made up of wonderful voice actors from old-time radio. Bill Conrad, Walter Tetley, Edward Everett Horton, June Foray.....you couldn't find a better cast this side of Arthur Q Bryan and Mel Blanc. I didn't like the show as a kid, but my appreciation for Jay Ward grows every time I watch the show, or read about it. One could also go on at great length about the wonderful advertising campaigns that the show had, that made it that much better.

J. J. Hunsecker

05-02-2002, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Larry T

Hmmm- at the risk of being picky here, Bugs was established at least 5 years before Song of the South was even released, which was 1945. There's no way Bugs' manner was influenced by Br'er Rabbit- besides, even though SOTS was based on literature, Bugs' formation was well in the works characterwise in at least four different types in the early cartoons, not necessarily mimicking Br'er Rabbit's (think the magician Bugs (Presto Change-o), the Groucho Bugs (Elmer's Candid Camera), the Looney Tuney Bugs (Hare-um Scare-um) and the Antagonist Bugs (Tortoise Beats Hare)... they were obviously trying to get a character that works).
One of the many books on the history of Looney Tunes mentions Bugs' antecedents as being the literature version of B'rer Rabbit and Disney's Max Hare from The Tortoise and the Hare. The former because he was a trickster and the latter because of his confidence (although it also points out the ways in which Bugs was different from those two characters). I think it might have been Barrier's book Hollywood Cartoons.

You're not just whistling Dixie, brother!! I have been saying that since the start of the fifth season. As soon as the celebrity voices started appearing as themselves and the other Springfieldians basically had a story written around them, the downhill slide had become. When there's no more inventiveness to be had with your original cast of five, it's time to do something else..... I can't stand to watch any of the more recent episodes at all, they're just too painfully desperate. Good thing for DVD box sets of the early years and the Tracey Ullman show :cool: .
I agree that the fifth season was the start of the slow decline of the Simpsons. The worst examples from that season being the episodes $pringfield (the one where the town builds a casino and Marge discovers she's addicted to gambling) and Deep Space Homer (Homer becomes an astronaut).

J. J. Hunsecker

05-02-2002, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by chuckamuck43

As for Bart & Crew -
Some of my favorite episodes revolve around other Springfieldians. There is such a rich secondary cast that sometimes I wish they'd give the family a rest and focus on the supporting players a bit more.

I do agree that those episodes in which celebrities portray themselves are crap.

Finally, I think season 8 is when the series began its slide.

Just my opinion, which, with a few bucks added, will buy you a latte...:D

I don't mind when the show features one of the secondary characters as long as it is done right. The danger is that the writers can weaken the personality of the secondary character by trying to show a more "multi-dimensional" person. For example, on Taxi when Louie DePalma was shown to have a more humane side he could never go back to the funny, amoral and hostile curmudgeon that he was in the beginnig of the season. They also ruined Latka this way, too.

For the Simpsons, Such episodes as Bart the Lover (which featured his teacher Miss Krabapple) and Krusty Gets Busted (and also the first few episode featuring Side Show Bob) were well done and explored the secondary cast members without altering their personalities. However, the show featuring Homer's acapella group The B-Sharps was all wrong. Since when is Homer friends with Apu and Skinner? The show where Skinner was revealed to be a fraud impersonating the real Seymour Skinner was just awful and destroys everything that has been set up about the character as we knew him. Shows like these do great damage to the series from which it can never recover. Once you kill off Maude Flanders, no matter how much the fans of the show might object to her death, there is no bringing her back.

Tintin

05-03-2002, 12:34 AM

For me, Taz was the winning over the merchandise for boys but also Tweety and Winnie the Pooh was the winning over the girls. :yawn:

J. J. Hunsecker

05-03-2002, 03:19 AM

Originally posted by rodney

I couldn't disagree more. I think very few TV cartoons were done as well as this one. The art was perfectly irreverant, the jokes were *very* clever, and the cast was made up of wonderful voice actors from old-time radio. Bill Conrad, Walter Tetley, Edward Everett Horton, June Foray.....you couldn't find a better cast this side of Arthur Q Bryan and Mel Blanc. I didn't like the show as a kid, but my appreciation for Jay Ward grows every time I watch the show, or read about it. One could also go on at great length about the wonderful advertising campaigns that the show had, that made it that much better.
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. It seems we have opposite views of the show. I liked it as a child but when I catch a rerun of it now, as an adult, it fails to hold my interest.

The fact that the voice talent came from radio makes sense since the show is a prime example of "illustrated radio." The voices would have to be good because they need to carry the whole show, since the animation can't. The Flintstones is somewhat similar to Rocky and Bullwinkle in this respect.

I think Rocky and Bullwinkle is good but not great, so it seems the acclaim it continues to garner--from the likes of Peggy Charren and Matt Groening--seem a little out of proportion with the actual merits of the show.

I am unfamiliar with the advertisements for the show that you mentioned.

Davesnothere

05-07-2002, 02:16 AM

Enough carping about Taz! He's in the same category as Buddy Holly and Gayle Sayers. Their actual careers were way too short, but they're still legends. No other antagonist Looney Tunes character gets you on his side like Taz does. You might pity Elmer, Wile E., and Sylvester, but they don't have Taz's charisma. The merchandising glut is just supply & demand.

Some TRULY overrated cartoon characters are John, Paul, George, and Ringo from the saturday morning Beatles cartoons of the mid sixties. The stories are below the standard of, let's say, Jabberjaw, and their voices are badly impersonated. Still, Beatles fans buy tapes of the darned things, watch 'em once and put 'em away.

Lucky Bob

05-07-2002, 03:22 AM

I like Taz! I think that he needs a few more cartoons under the belt, though. (Bring back Taz-Mania!)

My vote went to Tom and Jerry. The originals were hilarious, but when things got to the 60's and such, they were just annoying. (Dumb animation accompanied by a loud and distracting 60's soundtrack.) The same went for (I hate to say it) Droopy.

Cartman

05-07-2002, 12:23 PM

Definitely Taz.

BTW, Taz looks a little different in the original LT's than he does nowadays.

Jack

05-07-2002, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Cartman
Definitely Taz.

BTW, Taz looks a little different in the original LT's than he does nowadays.
I believe that around 1990, all of the Looney Tunes characters were redesigned, and that is how they have appeared in new TV spots and on merchandise since then. A few of the new Derrel Van Citters designs (while they might not have all come from him, they reflect his style more than anyone else) were sort of based on Chuck Jones designs from the mid 50s, only a little more exagerated. Robert McKimson's characters underwent the most radical change, probably.

Jack :D

David Gerstein

05-07-2002, 03:02 PM

You're right about the redesign (which I think took place in 1989); like you I believe Van Citters and several others shared responsibility for it. The designs were done for WB Consumer Products, where they've been used at least most of the time since then.
(A few characters have been redesigned again since 1989. Bugs is one: the more recent model, attribution unknown to me, gives him a slightly smaller head and eyes than the Van Citters model does.)
Anyway, the 1989 Taz model began the tradition of giving him an overbite as opposed to the original McKimson underbite. The Van Citters Taz is also subtly less chunky in shape, and has light brown fur at spots where the original Taz has white fur.
I'd say it was an effort to redesign the character as he might have been drawn in the 1946 Warners style, and I think it was rather well-done.

Mr. Peabody

05-07-2002, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by J. J. Hunsecker

I voted "other," meaning:

1. Crappy Doo --does anybody actually like this cartoon? Why does Cartoon Network air this @#$%&* thing 10 hours a day? CN censors the Looney Tunes but leaves Scooby untouched when Shaggy is obviously a hophead with the munchies, Velma is a lesbian, and Fred and that red-headed girl (what's her name?) are obviously shacking up.

2. Rugrats --What is wrong with todays youth!? And why do their parents let them watch this dull mindrot? Include the Emmy voters in with this bunch. I just don't get the appeal and popularity of this show. And it looks ugly!!

3. Yucko, ****o & Snot --The ever-annoying Animaniacs were, for some inexplicable reason, popular. Go figure. The shows were written by grave robbers who stole from the deceased creators of Looney Tunes. Although, at least they tried to be funny, compared to Rugrats.

4. Hank Hill (from King of the Hill)--a very popular character from this live-action cartoon, but he and the entire cast are ugly, ugly designs! A real eyesore, know whut ah mean?

5. The Simpsons (entire cast)--Bart was voted as the best cartoon of the century (or something like that) in Time magazines worthless poll a few years ago. Bart obviously cribbed his act from Bugs Bunny! Where is the justice in this world? The show stopped being funny after the forth season, and yet still creaks along.

6. (Tie) Casper the Friendly Dead Child/Mighty Mouse--Do these two count? They're in some sort of popularity limbo. They were never really that popular, but they've never completely gone away either. Casper had several live-action movies and a new cartoon based on the movie in recent years. Mighty Mouse was only good in the Bakshi parody on CBS in the early Eighties.

7. Rocky and Bullwinkle --These characters were funny when I first saw them as a child, but they have dated poorly. The original shows don't stand up to repeated viewings like the Looney Tunes do, and yet critics and parental groups rave about the show. I think the shows were good but does it really deserve all that adulation? And a live-action movie?

8. Mickey Mouse --Disney's main character was good in his first few shorts from 1928 up until the late thirties, but his character was softened and sanitized to please the self-appointed moral guardians of the time. Real Mickey was then taken over by Zombie Mickey and not even the "Sorcerer's Apprentice" could save him.

Jeez, I'm just getting started but I'd better quit here. I could go on and on, what with Johnny Bravo (the other show Cartoon Network constantly plays when they are not busy showing Scooby Doo), Cat-Dog , and all that other crap on Dtv.

I agree with you on the nick crap but I don't with the Scooby-Doo and other Cartoon Network stuff. They show Scooby a lot because people like it and it is a classic.

Nelson

05-07-2002, 06:07 PM

We Do???? Huh??? we hope that Cartoon Network takes that annoying canine off their roster.CN show's way (and I do mean way) too much Scooby all the time.Uggghhhh! :mad:

Billy

05-07-2002, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Jack

I believe that around 1990, all of the Looney Tunes characters were redesigned, and that is how they have appeared in new TV spots and on merchandise since then. A few of the new Derrel Van Citters designs (while they might not have all come from him, they reflect his style more than anyone else) were sort of based on Chuck Jones designs from the mid 50s, only a little more exagerated. Robert McKimson's characters underwent the most radical change, probably.
Jack :D

Is that why Porky Pig now always has a blue shirt and no pants?
I mean, he used to wear them every now and again (Tick Tock Tuckered, for example) The first time I saw this crop up was in Daffy Duck's Quackbusters.