Too Many Vigilantes?

[James Harvey]

If you look at the covers for the September and October shipping issues of DETECTIVE COMICS, you'll see that Sasha is in costume! Is it me, or is this a real bad idea? I think we're getting way to many vigilantes in Gotham. We have Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Azrael, Spoiler, Batgirl, Huntress, and now Sasha. It's just that the 'family' of crime fighters is getting too big. Thoughts?

[Clayface]

Yeah, I agree. It sounds like a bad idea to me. Who knows, maybe its only temporary. Or maybe its just a big by Rucka to get his own spin-off series (oh joy, another bat-related title).

[Nightwing]

Agreed. Having that many costumed vigilates is just too odd. It makes me think of "Critters" where Batman, Robin, and Batgirl were standing in the shadows of Jim's office, when we're used to just one, or two at most. It seemed redundant. And the comics are ten times that, what with Huntress and Azreal (die!) and the like.

[Trent Lane]

yeah, there are a lot of heroes in Batman's group, but it's a team. Why aren't we criticizing the X-Men for the same thing? It's not like you'll see ALL of the group fighting one person, anyway. That's just the way I look at it, though I do think the Sasha character is a little ridiculous. How many people know of Bruce's secret identity now?

BTW, could someone give me the backstory on Spoiler? I don't really know anything about her...

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by Nightwing
Azreal (die!)

I couldn't have said it better, 'WIng!

Anyways, here's a real brief Spoiler back story. Her real name is Stephanie Brown and she's the daughter of the Cluemaster. When she found out her dad was a crook, she donned a costume to stop him, and liked it. So, she kept doing it. She eventually caught the attention of Batman and Robin and was asked to stop, but kep on going. She grew to love Robin, and eventually vice versa. After getting preganant by some other guy, she put the costume back on. Eventually, Robin and her had a big fight. Inexplicably, Batman took her in and told her Robin's ID, which caused a major rift between Batman & Robin. She's now currently training with Batgirl.

[Trent Lane]

Thanks for the info, DG.... Spoiler training with Batgirl, hmmm? I know Batgirl's a pretty good fighter, so I guess Spoiler has a lot to learn...

[Clayface]

Originally posted by flhero311
yeah, there are a lot of heroes in Batman's group, but it's a team. Why aren't we criticizing the X-Men for the same thing?

Well, actually, that is the nature of my complaint about all the vigillantes. You see, I'm not a big fan of superhero groups. Sometimes I'll read a story with them, but for the most part I avoid them. The thing I've always loved about Batman is that he's a loner. He's always meant to be one that works alone and that's one of the things that makes him so much different, and in my opinion, so much better than all the other superheros out there. I don't want Batman's universe to become another cliche superhero team universe.

[Trent Lane]

True, Clayface, I agree with you, tho I don't have anything against the occasional team up. The stories of Batman working alone are usually the best, I guess cause there are less characters to write about.

[James Harvey]

I agree, plus having too many vigilantes just makes it a bit unbelieveable. I mean, how many near perfect athelete/Olympic shape people out there willing to go fight crime I know it's a bit more believable than radioactive Spider-men and gamma filled hulks, but when there is like 10 of these people? All coincidentially in one city? The best Bat-stories are the loner stories. Definatly.

[Domino]

Originally posted by DickGrayson
I agree, plus having too many vigilantes just makes it a bit unbelieveable. I mean, how many near perfect athelete/Olympic shape people out there willing to go fight crime I know it's a bit more believable than radioactive Spider-men and gamma filled hulks, but when there is like 10 of these people? All coincidentially in one city? The best Bat-stories are the loner stories. Definatly.

I respectfully disagree. Gotham is a huge city, with millions of inhabitants (8.2 million before NML and now 2.7 and growing, according to the Daily Planet Guide to Gotham City) and lots of crime. I never thought that one man was enough, and I don't think ten is enough, considering the vastness of that population and the types of crimes that Gotham suffers.

It's also not a coincidence that they're all there. Batman is directly responsible for himself, Robin, Nightwing (when he visits), Batgirl and Azrael being vigilantes in Gotham. As far as I can see, the only ones who are there coincidentally are the Huntress and the Spoiler, and even then the Spoiler was indirectly influenced because her father was a Batman villain. It's not an accident that most of them are trained so well and fighting crime there. For the most part, it's Batman's own doing. As someone recently pointed out to him, he's building a surrogate family to replace his own.

[James Harvey]

The whole lore of Batman is that he is one man trying to protect the city, and the citizens, from what happened to him. Sasha isn't really motived, nore is Spoiler. I think they need the proper motiviation in order be effective. Plus, all those costumes running around? I dunno. Batman works best as a loner. The bnigger his family gets, the less to focus is on him. The less effective he is. Are you gonna be scared of just one man dressed in black, or one man dressed in black besides a red costumed teen, a black costumed girl, a pink costumed girl, a purple costumed woman, a black & blue costume guy, a red & yelllow costumed man, and a black & white costumed female?

[BeyondGotham]

I have to Dissagree also. Yes, the loner stories about Batman are the best. However, there are many times that he works alone anyway. in the past few issues of Batman and DC, it's just been Batman, and the bodygaurd. The same goes for Batgirl. Robin, and even Nightwing. About the only one where they are ALL involved would be Gotham Knights, unless the stories in the other books call for them to be in it. And with a City of millions, Batman alone can only stop so many. SO I think that to a degree, the others are a blessing. (xept AZ...he's stupid...LOL)

[Domino]

Originally posted by DickGrayson
The whole lore of Batman is that he is one man trying to protect the city, and the citizens, from what happened to him. Sasha isn't really motived, nore is Spoiler. I think they need the proper motiviation in order be effective. Plus, all those costumes running around? I dunno. Batman works best as a loner. The bnigger his family gets, the less to focus is on him. The less effective he is. Are you gonna be scared of just one man dressed in black, or one man dressed in black besides a red costumed teen, a black costumed girl, a pink costumed girl, a purple costumed woman, a black & blue costume guy, a red & yelllow costumed man, and a black & white costumed female?

This is why I hate getting into arguments about a subject like Batman. There are 62 years' worth of history and at least seven distinct print versions of Batman. Some people prefer one over another. I try to look at the whole mythos. I can't argue that he works best alone, because it's a matter of opinion. I can point out, however, that he has worked with a partner far, far longer than he has worked without one in his long history.

[James Harvey]

Agreeeed. As they say: "Different strokes for different folks". I prefer one version, you perfer another - which is totally cool. Its just this Batman 'father figure' thing he has going on just seems bit hackeneyed. I can see him working with the JL, but not with other parters. I think Batman, Nightwing, Robin, and Batgirl are fine. No more is needed..

[Samhaine]

Originally posted by DickGrayson
I can see him working with the JL, but not with other parters.

Ya see, this I don't get. He treats the Batfamily better than he treats the league, and you know how well his relationships are with Dick and Tim....

[Flying Grayson]

Well I think only Nightwing has a whole city to his self in the Bat-family. Batman has three or four partners, but still wants to go it alone, the rest go it alone to. Is Gotham the New York of DC. I mean think about it. there are several heros in Gotham(although none have superpowers) and in the Marvel Universe we have Spiderman, the FF, The Avengers, the X-men, and some others(who's name's escape me) all in New York and they rarely get togther.