B:TAS "Two-Face, Parts 1 & 2" Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

Discuss this classic two-part Batman: The Animated Series episode!


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/twofacep1/00.jpg

District Attorney Harvey Dent is hiding a deep dark secret. He has a second personality, that of Big Bad Harv, a hard nosed gangster. When Rupert Thorne learns of Dent's sickness, he tries to blackmail him. Unfortunately, Dent's "bad" side comes to the fore, and he attacks Thorne leading to an explosions which leads to Den't second personality becoming dominant.

Episode #017 - Two-Face: Part 2
Original Airdate - September 28th, 1992.

Two Face begins an aggressive campaign against his hated rival, Rupert Thorne, who puts out a two-million dollar contract an him. Batman wants to find him before Thorne does, but Thorne's people snare Two Face first by using his former fiancee, Grace, as bait.

Comments?

[Tmansdc]

good! That will save me a half hour of tape next weekend (I won't have to record the Bat-man episode because it will be the same as todays episode!)

Okay, who already voted without seeing the episode first, or do you remember the episode so well you can vote on it without seeing it agains?

[The Penguin]

Originally posted by Tmansdc
Okay, who already voted without seeing the episode first, or do you remember the episode so well you can vote on it without seeing it agains?
I would say that some people do. Or they have it on tape and watched it early today. I'm waiting to cast my vote until after I see the episode again and can post my thoughts, but I already know I'm giving it a five because I remember enough about it to know that it is that good.

[Green Lantern]

Two-Face Part 1. One of my favorites (if not my VERY FAVORITE) Batman episode ever. I'll be back after the episode to most my more complete thoughts.

[Failure]

Wow. What a chiling ep. It has been a looong time since I'd seen this ep, and I'd forgotten how creepy this whole ep was. From Harvey's psychotic fits to the subdued score. I loved how they showed that Two Face was more than just a villain. Great, great ep. 5 stars.

[Wing Zero]

This episode is my favorite, and after watching it again after so long, I remember why I love BTAS so much! I love how it concentrated on Harvey and his problem, I really do feel sorry for him :(

[Bleu Unicorn]

I voted earlier -- just because I remember this episode so well. I've seen it so many times. And yet it never gets any less chilling to me.

I didn't want to post my thoughts, though, until it aired tonight. So, anyway... I loved it this time just as much as any other time. It's still as haunting as the first time I watched it. It's one of the few times that BTAS really goes into the origin of a criminal -- not that Harvey's a criminal in this episode, but you know what I mean. The entire episode focuses on his fighting between his two distinct and different personalities and the pain he's been through trying to hide and shield his feelings of anger and hate.

The animation definitely was not the best, though. But even that doesn't detract much from the story. There are some scenes though, that I will say stand out -- the one with the psychiatrist, where Harvey goes a bit off and almost kills her (or really physically hurts her, interpert it any way you want) and the last scene with Grace stand out in my mind the most.

I gave it a five!

[The Guard]

I'm sure most people saw this...

But when Harvey is in with the shrink, and the lighting strikes, half his face becomes that of Two-Face. Very cool.

[The Penguin]

"All men have something to hide. The brighter the picture, the darker the negative." -Rupert Thorne, Two-Face, Part I

I now offer my thoughts on this fantastic episode, which won the first "Best Batman: The Animated Series Episode" Poll with 36.4% of the vote.

This episode all goes back to "On Leather Wings" when we see Harvey sitting in a chair in the mayor's office flipping his coin. There is all kinds of great stuff in this episode. The small thing that really stuck out to me is when Harvey is talking to his doctor and the lightening strikes. The left side of his face is lit up and you see Two-Face!!

Great episode and in my view the best origin episode for any of the characters in TAS. Everything about this episode is so powerful I'm not sure what else to say!!

[d4rkkn1ght]

Great episode! I really liked the lightning scene in the shrinks office. Thanks for info about this being the episode next saturday, I cant stay up that late! :yawn:

[Cere]

A spectacular episode. It is a wonderful portrayal of a complex character. Harvey's psychosis is chilling. The episode shows us a glimpse at something we will hopefully never have to experience.

Did I notice a message to viewers in Bruce's speech to Harvey? "I'm proud of you. It takes a strong man to admit he has a problem." It seemed to speak right to me.

Also, I loved the subtle artistic effects. Did you notice that when Big Bad Harv started taking over, the background turned red?

Spectacular ep. Deserving of five stars.

[Tmansdc]

Five stars!


Great Episode, Great detail on Harv's Schizophrenia and how he tried dealing with it. I also liked how we saw a lot of bruce wayne and not bat-man in this episode, plus the animation was very good! and the ending scene where he said "Goodbye Grace" was very good too. I can't wait for part two to air week after next Saturday!

ah great, someone voted 1/2 again. Green Lantern, please don't get all weird over this please.

[murmur]

No doubt that this episode is an obvious top 10 pick. The dramatic choices all paid off. One interesting note is that this is one of the few episodes (in fact, the only one I can think of right now) where Bruce Wayne is more dramatically prominent than Batman. In a way, this could add to the idea of a "secondary personality" occasionally taking over. Notice how Batman calls after our doomed DA by his last name, but then seeing the tragedy that has befallen his friend laments "Harvey...no..." speaking as only Bruce could feel.

The most disappointing thing about this episode is the explanation for the formation of Big Bad Harv. I don't fault the writers at all for this, as I don't see how they could have put a better explanation past the censors. The cause for dissociative identity disorder (what is commonly known as mulitple personality disorder; MPD) is always extreme and prolonged childhood trauma. This is typically very severe child abuse. I have read about a comic book origin story that was a lot more realistic, but of course they could never have that on a show marketed to children.

BTW, Harvey is NOT schizophrenic. He doesn't hallucinate or believe things that never happened. In fact, before the whole blast at the end of the episode, he's like most people with MPD, a functional person with occasional emotional setbacks when working through his issues. After the blast, he does seem to lose touch with reality a bit, but he's still not schizophrenic.

[Zoddman]

Both parts one and two of this episode are pitch-perfect. The voice acting, TMS's animation, the mood, the music, everything comes together amazingly well in this episode. This is the best that BTAS has to offer.

[Terminatah]

The versatile voice actors really get a chance to shine in episodes like these. And in these deliveries, we get a sense of twisted parallelism between the two main characters. We have Batman, whose own duality is expressed visually as well as in Kevin Conroy's voice. But Harvey Dent is Harvey Dent for almost the entire duration of the episode, yet through Richard Moll's showstopping performance, there is no doubt that Two-Face is totally independent of Harvey.

The continuous omnipresent thunderstorm served as an extended metaphor of the turmoil in Harvey's head. His whole psyche is a mess of anguish, and every once in a while, Big Bad Harv strikes.

The seemingly endless sound of that coin flipping through the air was maddening. And yet, Two-Face's theme is so light and simple. A perfect low key contrast to the thunderous presence of Harvey's bad side. So eerily haunting, it really embodies the tragedy of this character.

The most effective villain is one you can sympathize with, and Two-Face is a prime example of that. His biggest victim was Harvey Dent.

-Terminatah

[Jackhammer]

One thing that really sticks out when I watch the episodes from the first few years is how meticulously the characters were layed out. You really got to know all the main players in Gotham and even the not so main ones. As we really got to know Harvey Dent before Two Face emerged. I also miss Thorne and Daggett as big players. Even Thorne's female henchman was all getting turned on by men fighting. Also, Gotham was very stylized in this phase of the series. The retro cars and even old style leather helmets that the football teams wore. The first three years of the animated series had some serious thought put into them. Now, who else when they saw the lightning strike and saw Two Face for a split second ( that scene still creeps me out) found it reminiscent of the scene in Dark Knight Returns where Bruce closes his eyes and says "I see him as he truly is"...?

Great episodes like this one and Second Chance show why Two Face has the greatest story potential still (after sixty years) of all the Batman villians.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy all,


Originally posted by murmur
I have read about a comic book origin story that was a lot more realistic, but of course they could never have that on a show marketed to children.


I agree with murmur that the explanation of "Big Bad Harv" was pretty inadequate. "You beat up someone as a kid and got traumatized for life about it?" Gads, them censors.

The origin story you refer to was by Andy Helfer and Chris Sprouse, and was published in the late 80's or early 90's in a Batman Annual (with a terrific Two-Face cover). It is, without a doubt, one of the best Two-Face stories ever written, and I highly suggest fans of this episode seek it out. In the annual, the basic story is that Harvey's father was a gambler and an alcoholic who beat Harvey regularly. However, before the beating, Harvey's dad would always flip a coin and tell Harvey if the coin came up heads, he'd get a beating, but if it came up tails, he'd be spared.

Unfortunately, it was a trick coin with two heads.

This was the modern origin of Harvey's coin, which he at least made fairer by scarring one side of it to match his own face. They hint at this origin in one of the Batman Adventures comics, but I don't think they ever refer to it directly. For all I know, it's not even canon anymore.

Other than the origin cop-out (which, IMO, could have been used to send a powerful message to kids in the audience that it is NEVER OK to accept abuse from an elder in silence), I thought this episode was one of the best they ever did. I was struck particularly last night at Richard Moll's voice acting performance, and the sharp dichotomy between Harvey Dent and Two-Face. The only one who can pull that kind of thing off better, IMO, is Kevin Conroy.

-- Ed/Ace

[Mattashell]

Only two of the top ten eps so far have won in the pop polls as well, and this is one of them with good reason. I gave this five stars and it was much better than Saturday's episode.

[Zoddman]

Originally posted by Ace the Bathound
The origin story you refer to was by Andy Helfer and Chris Sprouse, and was published in the late 80's or early 90's in a Batman Annual (with a terrific Two-Face cover). It is, without a doubt, one of the best Two-Face stories ever written, and I highly suggest fans of this episode seek it out. In the annual, the basic story is that Harvey's father was a gambler and an alcoholic who beat Harvey regularly. However, before the beating, Harvey's dad would always flip a coin and tell Harvey if the coin came up heads, he'd get a beating, but if it came up tails, he'd be spared.

Unfortunately, it was a trick coin with two heads.

This was the modern origin of Harvey's coin, which he at least made fairer by scarring one side of it to match his own face. They hint at this origin in one of the Batman Adventures comics, but I don't think they ever refer to it directly. For all I know, it's not even canon anymore.
-- Ed/Ace It is still canon. They hinted at this recently in The Long Halloween and Dark Victory.

[supermanpal]

I love this episode,it show how batman blames himself about harvey accident and how he will never be the same person again.

But I got a question if evil Harvey is in contoll now,what happen to harvey good side does he come out once in a while?

[The Penguin]

Originally posted by supermanpal
But I got a question if evil Harvey is in contoll now,what happen to harvey good side does he come out once in a while?

I'm not an expert, but I would say that's what the coin is for. Take this example: If you met Two-Face in an alley and you rubbed him the wrong way he may want to kill you. A flip of the coin will decide it all. Good heads- Harvey wins and he lets you go or doesn't hurt you as badly. Bad heads- Big Bad Harv/Two-Face wins and you'd better call an undertaker.

That's the simple, simple version (I admit to knowing very little about comics). You'll get to see more of this in "Two-Face, Part 2" which will air Saturday night May 4/Sunday morning May 5 (whichever you prefer) at 2:30 a.m. EDT. :)

[TheScarecrow]

Been so long since I've seen this episode that I actually forgot just how chilling Richard Moll's Big Bad Harv voice really is. I was hooked into this episode from the beginning, and brought me back to when I watched it on a regular basis back in the day.

Five stars!

[Mattashell]

It didn't take long for Harvey to find a new fiance after Pam huh.

[Tmansdc]

Originally posted by Mattashell
Only two of the top ten eps so far have won in the pop polls as well, and this is one of them with good reason. I gave this five stars and it was much better than Saturday's episode.

what episode played on saturday?

[MILatino]

Originally posted by d4rkkn1ght
Great episode! I really liked the lightning scene in the shrinks office.

Yes, that was absolutely scary and that episode was excellent.

Note to Writers: Lightning and thunder don't happen at the same time. First you see the flash of light, then you hear the thunder later. How much later depends on how far the bolt was. The writers consistently make this mistake in all episodes with storms.

[Mattashell]

Originally posted by Tmansdc


what episode played on saturday?

Be a Clown

[The Penguin]

Since this thread is less than a week old, I see no reason not to just bump it back up since tonight CN reairs "Two-Face, Part 1"
Feel free to add extra thoughts or if you missed it last Sunday, watch it tonight and cast your vote. :)
Please refer to the first post which is edited to suit the episode airing tonight.

The new discussion of Two-Face, Part 1 begins now.....

[TheScarecrow]

Pardon the pun... but I have to say this ep was just as great the second time around.

[JTurner954]

I only watch BTAS on Rising Sun and not during the other times. The reasons: 1. I like to go in order. 2. It's a reward after finishing Adult Swim and Superman.

Anyway, when I first saw this episode long ago, I had no prior knowledge of Two Face (or any background of anyone in the Batman world). For that reason, this episode was really scary to me (back then at 8 years old, I was scared to see Batman 1989). But at the same time, I loved it. Now seeing it for the second time, I still enjoy it. Throughout I'm saying to myself, "Hey, that's the girl who goes with Bane" and "WOW, Harvey looks so normal". I love flashbacks (nostalgia is a wonderful thing).


I don't know if I should vote with 4 or 4 1/2 stars (I am reserving my 5 star vote for my favorite Batman episode) so for now I do not vote.

[Tmansdc]

Originally posted by Mattashell


Be a Clown

not to sound rude but darn, a lot of people whose name starts with L died during the last week. May the Rest in Peace/Piece

[The Penguin]

I taped it on Sunday so I've watched this episode probably half a dozen times this week. It never gets old and I'l probably watch it a few more times before Part 2 next Saturday. :D

[JohnStewart-GL]

This ep was pretty cool. we delved alittle more into Harvey Dents character.

[The Penguin]

"Chance, Grace. Chance is everything. Whether you're born or not. Whether you live or die. Whether you're good or bad. It's all arbitrary." -Two-Face, Two-Face, Part 2

(I have to admit I was shocked when I heard "previously on Batman" I guess we can expect It's Never Too Late (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31382) next week with the Top 10 continuing after that. Anyway...)

When they say each episode can stand on its own I tend to agree. This episode is still really good, but it isn't quite as strong as Part 1, which is why it didn't get the full 5 from me. I'm not sure why, I just like the first half a little bit better.

One of the most powerful part of this episode would have to be Bruce's dream. I also found it interesting that whenever someone got through to Harvey, even if for a moment, he hung his head to one side and the scared half disappeared. Grace is a perfect example of a person who loves someone completely. Even with half of his face scared and disfigured, she still loved Harvey as much as she did before. She obviously loves him for the person he is inside, and is not scared off by the split-minded menace he has become. It's too bad Grace never returned to the series even though the Harvey/Bruce/Grace relationship is continued in "Two-Timer"—issues 1 (http://www.toonzone.net/comics/brish01.html) and 2 (http://www.toonzone.net/comics/brish02.html) of The Batman & Robin Adventures comic.

Overall though I like this episode, I really felt the pain of both Harvey and Bruce. One as his world spun out of control, and the other as he watched part of his best friend die.

[The Guard]

Is it me, or is Candice hot?

[Calico]

The poignancy of Batman flipping his coin into the fountain was beautiful. He is really touched by the loss of his friend.

[Cere]

This episode was awesome. It wonderfully completed the story from part 1.

This episode had some nice artistic touches. Take when Batman first confronts Two-Face. When Batman tells Two-Face about how he has friends who can help him, you see his good face. Then, when Batman runs after Two-Face in the hallway and he fights back, you see his bad face.

[Mattashell]

It was pretty good, I don't have much to say about it. Four stars.

[themejoker]

I don't understand how they did not make two face a DTV!?- I am dyeing to see them bend the story with bruce being harvey's friend, yet fathering tim drake, who's real father was killed by two face. They have so many possibilities with bruces soul! It really ticks me off that they got away from bruces emotions in batman TNA.. the feeling that was emitted from the episode Two Face was genuine. Too bad we don't see much more on the two face subject besides a sad third "judge" to his personality.. a total waste in my opinion..

I also appreciated the good face bad face situating

[The Penguin]

Welcome back to the Two-Face, Part 2 Talkback! This episode aired last Sunday to supplement Two-Face, Part 1, which was part of Bruce Timm's top 10. The first post has been edited to reflect it airing tonight. It should be even better the "second" time. :D

[JTurner954]

4 star episode from me. As mentioned before, a great finish to Part 2.

I'm a little confused though. If he is after Rupert Throne for revenge, why is Two-Face still a criminal afterwards?? I never understood what makes Two-Face a criminal (there has to be more than just hating Thorne).

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by JTurner954
4 star episode from me. As mentioned before, a great finish to Part 2.

I'm a little confused though. If he is after Rupert Throne for revenge, why is Two-Face still a criminal afterwards?? I never understood what makes Two-Face a criminal (there has to be more than just hating Thorne).

He mentioned something about being made of dichotomies, such as order vs. chaos. I guess for some reason we just don't see much of the order half. *shrug*

[Revelator]

I liked the animation in part One a great deal--it's the closest i've seen the series come to having the lusher look of an anime.
But the studio they handed part Two to did very shoddy work. There's hardly a frame without a wince-worthy composition. People can complain all they liked about the TNBA designs, but they came out far better when handled by cheap studios than the BTAS ones ever did. (Unfortunately, the TNBA Two-Face redesign totally ruins the character by making his ugly side less unruly and his handsome side nasty-looking.)

I usually like Randy Rogels' writing but this episode did suffer from Alan Burnett's reduced input. There were a few awkward lines throughout. I also thought Bruce's dream was unendurably corny stuff: the dialogue was artificial and the appearance of Bruce's parents was silly, especially with Thomas Wayne intoning "Why couldn't you save us son?" in that risibly deep voice. Bruce might have felt a twinge of guilt over not having done enough in his parents' case (though what he could have done is hard to think of) but this dream scene handles the issue too clumsily and with a heavy-hand.

Like Mr.Freeze, Two-Face is one of those villains who never again starred in an episode half as good as his origin story. I fully agree with themejoker: I'd much rather have seen them explore the Bruce/Tim/Harvey relationship dynamic rather than waste time on the judge episode, which smacked of dubious psychology. Unfortunately, "Sins of the Father" the episode that could have explored a lot of those relationships, was squeezed into a single episode and then scripted by Rich Fogel, who did a mediocre job (as par). Tim ended up a snotty kid and Two Face was nothing more than a thug.

[Mattashell]

Part 1 - The Episode:

One of the things that impressed me, initially about B:TAS was the fact that they set up Dent before giving Two-Face his origin episode. I came into the series with little knowledge of Batman, but I had read The Dark Knight Returns, so I knew what would eventually come of Dent and I felt like I was in on some secret. (Although now looking back on it, it would have worked even better if they had let it build longer, and it is not congruous with Pretty Poison.

The episode is all character development. I love everyminute of learning the details of Harvey's disfunction, watching Thorne toy with him, playing with fire really, and ultimately the final explosion of emotion and psychology, as Harvey Dent and Big Bad Harv are married and Two-Face is borne.

Richard Moll was always known to me as "Bull" a balif on the sit-com Night Court. I'd seen him in a few low-budget comedy features as well. As an actor, his immense hieght, smooth-bald head and happy-go-lucky demeanor, nevre gave casters many options to do with him and when he was cast, you could be sure he was type-cast. But in the world of voice acting, as "Harvey Dent/Two-Face", he shows amazing range that I never thought he would have been capable of.

The animation in this ep leaves something to be desired.

The lack of a action-based conflict will bore the kiddies, this ones for the big boys and girls.

*****

The Episode - Part 2:

I like that this is called "Two-Face: Part II". If you remember, the first half is actually just "Two-Face" without the "Part I" which we like to call it today. But, Two-Face just needed a little something to tie it up and this is it.

Unlike Two-Face: Part I, this is an actioner that will please the kiddies and the adults. Although not as deep, and not as good as the first part, it is important to explore Two-Face now that he's Two-Face. We establish his obsesive behavior with the number two, his off the handle, flambiont style of larceny and Batman's vow to save his friend.

It isn't all fisticuffs and explosions though. Batman is, in fact, explored through Two-Face, especially in the well plaid dream sequence. And there are some very fine noir plot twists, especially involving Thorne's scheme to locate Harvey through his former fiance.

Again I am impressed with Richard Moll's performance. I never thought he could act this well.

A great companion episode that compliments the original well.

****

[Carrieattheprom]

I thought Bruce's nightmare was the best part of the episode.



Am I the only one who thought that was Harvey's two-headed coin that Batman tossed into the fountain? Two-Face could've always gotten another one from any magic shop.

Although I liked pt.2 better I liked this one because we got to see more of Bruce Wayne. It's interesting to see just what Batman does in the daylight hours.



I also liked the scene in the therapist's office where the lightning flashes and two-face appears for a split second. That is mirrored in the final scene when Harvey bursts out of the hospital room. When he turns to look at Grace lightning flashes, revealing Two-Face.

[CtrlAltDel]

This episode perfectly brought us through the transition from Harvey Dent to the infamous Two-Face

But who can forget the moment in which Two-Face was first seen through the eyes of his soon-to-be wife...Sure Brilliance

[Lunchbox]

I'm still impressed they used the word "dichotomy" on a kid's show.

[Fone Bone]

Hmm, I have schizo-effective and I don't remember it ever being like this.

A great episode. A great villian. Great animation. I knocked half a star off for the kid-gloves approach to dissociative disorder and the implications that the public may have made Harvey a pariah for seeing a psychologist. It may have been even a little bit true but I don't like the message that sends to the kiddies. As if you can't guess, I'm extra sensitive. ****1/2 for part 1.

Shoddy animation? The still background of Two-Face's face reading a parchment while his eyes were the only thing moving is one of the most memorable images in the entire series. So cool and funny.

A good conclusion but I'm still gonna dock an entire star. When Batman flips the coin into the fountain it lands FACE UP. The fact that they never tied up Harvey's story in a meaningful way after such an ending filled with hope is unforgivable. **** for part 2.

[Harlequinade]

I loved this episode. It was beautifully written and it proved you don't need a lot of action to make an episode good. Probably the thing that stands out the most is the double personalities and the psychological impact on Harvey which ultimately caused most of Two-face to come to life before the explosion. Seeing his outrages were nice and Rupert Thorne using his file to blackmail him was genius as well. I loved in the shrink's office when Big Bad Harv came out, awesome.

Batman's little chase scene following the car was cool and the music was good to, plus Batman and Harvey's fight in Thorne's factory was done really well. This episode was one of the better ones. 5 stars

I liked the second episode a lot but not as much as part one. Looking into Two-face's character for the first time was interesting. A really cool and emotional scene was Bruce's dream. The animation was nice and the plot was okay. Seeing Batman injured by his fight with Two-face was a little overdramatic I mean all Two-face did was kick him. Overall 4 stars

[John Cage]

Hi there.

I was really dissapointed with how Two-Face was handled for much of the series after his origin story, which was really tragic and smartly written. The animation in the second half didn't compare to the beautiful animation from part one, but it had it's moments.

In fact, if it weren't for "Second Chance" I'd probably hate the way they handled Two-Face. I'm really glad they did a follow up, and I remember feeling the same way when I was twelve years old, back when "Second Chance" first aired.

I've heard a few people comment on Two-Face's lack of any real motivation and that's true. I never thought too much of it, but after "Two-Face, pts. 1 & 2" he was reduced to a crimeboss thug.

Again, thank goodness for "Second Chance".

Have a good day then.
John Cage

[The Penguin]

Tonight at 12 midnight ET Boomerang airs the Batman: The Animated Series episode, Two-Face: Part 1. This is according to the Boomerang TV schedule (http://schedule.cartoonnetwork.com/servlet/BoomerangServlet?action=selectBMDay) which we hope is correct. If you do not have Boomerang, you are encouraged to follow along on disc 2 of your Batman: The Animated Series, Vol. 1 (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=115616) DVD set.


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/twofacep1/00r.jpgEpisode #010 - Two-Face: Part 1
Original Airdate - September 25th, 1992.

District Attorney Harvey Dent is hiding a deep dark secret. He has a second personality, that of Big Bad Harv, a hard nosed gangster. When Rupert Thorne learns of Dent's sickness, he tries to blackmail him. Unfortunately, Dent's "bad" side comes to the fore, and he attacks Thorne leading to an explosions which leads to Den't second personality becoming dominant.

Comments?

The talkbacks are currently being bumped on a trial basis and will continue based on poster interest.

[Batman Fan]

This is a great episode and the writing is some of the best in the series. This episode delivers a story that entangles you, keeps you in, and sends you on thrilling ride watching a man struggle with two personalities and ultimately one dominates over the other.

That's what's great about this episode. They develop a character that has a problem, put an emotional appeal to it so you want this character to overcome, and that's what makes this episode more powerful, because you care about the character and I think that's important.

Harvey's evolution into Two-face is a truly fascinating to watch. I can only imagine what it's like to struggle with two personalities.

I loved seeing Bruce's support towards Harvey, that's what makes Two-face a great villan, Bruce still believes him in him, and actually cares for him, and wants Two-face to overcome his bad side.

The little action in this episode was done with great animation, the fight in Thorne's factory, and the explosion creating the scars for Two-face were all done great. I prefer this part over part two.

*****

[The Penguin]

Tonight at 12 midnight ET Boomerang airs the Batman: The Animated Series episode, Two-Face: Part 2. This is according to the Boomerang TV schedule (http://schedule.cartoonnetwork.com/servlet/BoomerangServlet?action=selectBMDay) which we hope is correct. If you do not have Boomerang, you are encouraged to follow along on disc 2 of your Batman: The Animated Series, Vol. 1 (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=115616) DVD set.


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/twofacep2/00r.jpgEpisode #017 - Two-Face, Part 2
Original Airdate - September 28th, 1992.

Two Face begins an aggressive campaign against his hated rival, Rupert Thorne, who puts out a two-million dollar contract an him. Batman wants to find him before Thorne does, but Thorne's people snare Two Face first by using his former fiancee, Grace, as bait.

Comments?

The talkbacks are currently being bumped on a trial basis and will continue based on poster interest.

[Stewie]

I always liked the stories that involved down-to-earth gangsters like Thorne. Especially Thorne. And the part he and Batman/Bruce played in creating Two-Face was great. And that fact that he never had any gadgets or powers or weird stuff made Two-Face one of my favorite villains. He was just a crazy guy that used to be best friends with Bruce Wayne. All the rogue's gallery eventually turned into sympathetic cases, but Two-Face was the only one that Batman was personally responsible for. And that made their duels all the more meaningful.

Oh, and poor Grace. Boo hoo.

[Batman Fan]

A pretty good conclusion, not as good as part one though. I think they should have elaborated more on Two-face's struggle to keep his dark-sie in after the accident. Also, the animation wasn't as good as part one, and this one didn't have that emotional appeal as much either or the very complex psychological plot we saw in part one.

That aside, this episode is still good. Seeing Bruce and Grace cope losing someone they hole dear was nice to see, especially Bruce's nightmare. And seeing as Batman actually cared for Two-face, he always let his guard down to try and help his old friend.

There's a basic plot, Thorne blackmails Two-face, Two-face wants revenge so he steals Thorne's files and robs his companies. The scene at the end was done well with Grace confronting Two-face and getting a look in his mind as he's now obsessed with chance. The fight scene was pretty good, and the ending was predictable.

All in all, not as good as part one, but this episode is still good and has its moments. ****

[The Penguin]

Tonight at 12 midnight ET, Boomerang airs the Batman: The Animated Series episode, Two-Face, Part 1. If you do not have Boomerang, you are encouraged to follow along on disc 2 of your Batman: The Animated Series, Vol. 1 (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=115616) DVD set.


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/twofacep1/00r.jpgEpisode #010 - Two-Face, Part 1
Original Airdate - September 25th, 1992.

District Attorney Harvey Dent is hiding a deep dark secret. He has a second personality, that of Big Bad Harv, a hard nosed gangster. When Rupert Thorne learns of Dent's sickness, he tries to blackmail him. Unfortunately, Dent's "bad" side comes to the fore, and he attacks Thorne leading to an explosions which leads to Den't second personality becoming dominant.

Comments?

[warmachine04]

One of the best episodes of the first season. A solid storyline with some good emotional moments. I was impressed.:D

[The Penguin]

Tonight at 12 midnight ET, Boomerang airs the Batman: The Animated Series episode, Two-Face, Part 2. If you do not have Boomerang, you are encouraged to follow along on disc 2 of your Batman: The Animated Series, Vol. 1 (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=115616) DVD set.


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/twofacep2/00r.jpgEpisode #017 - Two-Face, Part 2
Original Airdate - September 28th, 1992.

Two Face begins an aggressive campaign against his hated rival, Rupert Thorne, who puts out a two-million dollar contract an him. Batman wants to find him before Thorne does, but Thorne's people snare Two Face first by using his former fiancee, Grace, as bait.

Comments?

[warmachine04]

A pretty good followup. Though I enjoyed the first part, the second part keeps the the story and emotional content in good form.:D

[DisneyBoy]

Best part of the entire episode is Grace's perfectly-timed and delivered line..."You don't ever have to hide from me".


God that part always gets me choked up :crying:

EDIT: Oh, and poor Grace. Boo hoo.

*Gasp* Stewie! This woman was willing to put her life on the line by going with those thugs, just to see Harvey! And then she stayed with him during his rehabilitation. Have you read The Batman and Robin Adventures issues #1 and #2? If not, go give 'em a read. Honestly, Grace is probably one of the women I respect most in the DCAU. Self-sacrificing beyond reason. Wish her well.

[Stewie]

EDIT: Oh, and poor Grace. Boo hoo.

*Gasp* Stewie! This woman was willing to put her life on the line by going with those thugs, just to see Harvey! And then she stayed with him during his rehabilitation. Have you read The Batman and Robin Adventures issues #1 and #2? If not, go give 'em a read. Honestly, Grace is probably one of the women I respect most in the DCAU. Self-sacrificing beyond reason. Wish her well.That wasn't meant as ironic or sarcastic or whatever I'm supposed to call it now. I really think her part in the story was sad.

[Revelator]

I watched this again on DVD a few months back. Yep, the animation is still a huge letdown after the gorgeous visuals in part one. And the dream sequence seems to have been written after reading "Psychology For Dummies." There's really one aspect of this episode that saves it from mediocrity and vaults it into the four-star and above range: the third act. The ending, with batman fliping the coin into the fountain, is beautifully done, and most searing of all is the sight of Two-Face , maddened with rage, searching frenziedly fior his coin after Batman's dumped a box-full of silver dollars all over the place. Two Face's cries of rage and consternation eventually becomes yelps of fear and frustration, the anguish of a man melting down right before your eyes. Richard Moll owned the part forever after that scene.

Too bad his acting chops were only put to good use in "Second Chance," and thereafter Two Face was wasted. Why did they bother with gimmicy junk like The Judge when they had a perfect follow up to Harvey's story in the first two Dini-scripted issues of Batman and Robin Adventures? Had those stories been adapted, and had "Sins of the Father" been expanded into a character-based two-parter, I and a helluva lot of other people would have been far more satisfied with the way Two Face turned out.

[Crossdive]

the Two-Face 2-parter are some of the best episodes in all of Batman TAS, DC Episodes, and American cartooning hands down, anything less than a 5 would be a crime.

[DisneyBoy]

Revelator, you called it.

[Cortez2301]

I actually liked how he became twoface here than in the comics.What about you guys?


BTW the title has face spelt incorrectly.

[Silly McGooses]

I thought it was great. You can find a lot more discussion on this in the threads for "Two-Face: Part 1" and "Two-Face: Part 2."

[Cortez2301]

oh,thanks.

[Pyro]

Was no one else bothered by how Batman was total weaksauce in this episode? Two-Face gave him one kick to the torso, he hit a carrying cart, and was knocked unconscious and favoring his side and moaning for the rest of the episode! Batman has taken way worse, since when is that all it takes to hurt him?

[Harvey Two Face]

Maybe due to the emotional pain due to his friend Harvey turning into this monster?

[Wolf Boy2]

Was no one else bothered by how Batman was total weaksauce in this episode? Two-Face gave him one kick to the torso, he hit a carrying cart, and was knocked unconscious and favoring his side and moaning for the rest of the episode! Batman has taken way worse, since when is that all it takes to hurt him?
Because the series was brand new, and they weren't sure yet how to establish physical threats to Batman. I doubt the writers of "Two-Face" ever thought that Batman would be dodging Omega Beams from Darkseid in their series. In fact, they probably never expected Batman to face Darkseid at all.

Watch the early episodes carefully, he got KO'd by non-powered thugs all the time.

[Aizen]

Watch the early episodes carefully, he got KO'd by non-powered thugs all the time.
What? When? :eek:

[DerekPowers]

I love this episode. Its the perfect follow-up to part 1, imo. The only thing keeping it from being in the same league as part 1 is the animation. IMAGINE if it had the same animation quality as part one! It would definately be one of the instant BTAS all-stars.

Having said that, the animation isnt horrible either, its just a huge step down. But it does have great visuals none-the-less. I love Two-Face's twin henchmen, love the scene where Two-Face robs the gambling place (especially the part when he unloads with the machine gun), love the part in the rain, and especially loved the ending with Two-Face, Grace, Thorne, and Batman. I think the writting in this episode is as good as part 1, and this whole act is an example of why. It perfectly explains Two-Face's character, it takes the story back to a psychological point started in part 1, and the stuff w/ Grace is just so sad and gives real emotion to Harvey/Two-Face's story. And overall the whole episode was just well paced and had a great story throughout, its just such a great episode. If only the animation was TMS, then combined with part 1, this would have been one mind-blowing hour of the best cartoon series ever (not that it isnt already).

[SaBaWoJuLe]

I just rewatched the episode, and I have to say: the plot with Throne using Dent's childhood that could ruin his reelection bothers me. If that happened, would it truly end the reelection, despite his run at that point that showed he was on the right side with no problems. For me, because he was going after these guys, and other people like judges sending them off from jail, I could understand if he had alot of anger that he tried to hide because he couldn't show it since he was a DA. Further explaining why he became Two-Face.

But that as a plot by Throne? It bothers me to the point where I wonder if the episode might've been better if that wasn't in it. Compared to the other better known Two-Face origins, The Long Halloween and The Dark Knight, this episode (part 1) is the only thing that bothers me and I have a problem with.

What does everybody else think?

[Spellbinder]

I just rewatched the episode, and I have to say: the plot with Throne using Dent's childhood that could ruin his reelection bothers me. If that happened, would it truly end the reelection, despite his run at that point that showed he was on the right side with no problems. For me, because he was going after these guys, and other people like judges sending them off from jail, I could understand if he had alot of anger that he tried to hide because he couldn't show it since he was a DA. Further explaining why he became Two-Face.

But that as a plot by Throne? It bothers me to the point where I wonder if the episode might've been better if that wasn't in it. Compared to the other better known Two-Face origins, The Long Halloween and The Dark Knight, this episode (part 1) is the only thing that bothers me and I have a problem with.

What does everybody else think?

That part of the plot doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I think it strengthens the episode even further. The election is obviously very important to Harvey, so important that he is willing to give in to Thorne's blackmail. He doesn't want any secrets to escape into the public if they could potentially cost him the election. As viewers we are understanding of Harvey's problems, but that doesn't mean the people of Gotham are. Just look at our elections. When things like this happen it can sometimes cost politicians the race.

Personally, I didn't really like Two Face's origin in The Dark Knight. Unlike in BTAS, Harvey had no psychological issues, and that was really what made Harvey interesting to me.

[KillerMoth]

Harvey is interesting, while I think BTAS has one of the best versions of Two-Face, I feel The Dark Knight has the single best interpretation of Harvey Dent. I liked that BTAS had a few Harvey appearances but we never got the feel that this guy was necessary to Gotham, that he was up there with Batman in terms of crime fighting. But these episodes are still great anyway, I like that he has issues before becoming Two-Face.

[Revelator]

I thought The Dark Knight could have learned a lot from BTAS. The movie rushed Harvey's conversion, whereas the show focused intensely on showing Harvey as a fragile vessel fated to break apart, building up an air of inevitability that hit with the pre-ordained force of classical tragedy. The ending also managed to show how far Harvey had fallen while still holding out the possibility of redemption, in contrast to the film's increasingly ham-handed and incompetently staged resolution to Harvey's fate.

[KillerMoth]

I thought The Dark Knight could have learned a lot from BTAS. The movie rushed Harvey's conversion, whereas the show focused intensely on showing Harvey as a fragile vessel fated to break apart, building up an air of inevitability that hit with the pre-ordained force of classical tragedy. The ending also managed to show how far Harvey had fallen while still holding out the possibility of redemption, in contrast to the film's increasingly ham-handed and incompetently staged resolution to Harvey's fate.
Wow, biased much? I mean, I get why a lot of Two-Face fans (and he's like my favourite character) were let down a little by TDK, but I really think you're overplaying how well he was handled in BTAS as well.

[Revelator]

Wow, biased much? I mean, I get why a lot of Two-Face fans (and he's like my favourite character) were let down a little by TDK, but I really think you're overplaying how well he was handled in BTAS as well.

A critical opinion of any kind must have a bias. Though I liked TDK I didn't regard as the second-coming of Citizen Kane, and I thought its handling of Two Face, though starting out credible, ended up being rushed and in the end botched. I've noted my objections to BTAS's later handling of Two Face within this thread, but aside from circumstances beyond the creative team's control (not being able to use the child abuse angle, the sloppy animation in part 2), Two Face's origin episode is still the character's finest hour in any medium.

[Spellbinder]

I thought Harvey was handled well in TDK, but not Two Face. As Revelator mentioned, his transformation in TDK was too rushed, and Two Face lacked the physiological problems that made BTAS Two Face so interesting. In BTAS, he was a man with two opposing personalities that clashed with one another. The explosion and the chemicals that scarred Harvey did not create Two Face, it was a long time time coming, they merely weakened the kind and compassionate part of Harvey that, up until then, had always remained in control. Once that part of Harvey was destroyed (well, not completely destroyed) the dark and angry man was able to take over with ease.

In TDK, Two Face is simply a man out for revenge who happened to have half of his face scarred.

Now, tell me. Which of those four people are more interesting? (pun intended)

[CyclonatorZ]

A brilliant pair of episodes by far, and IMO the first ones truly reaching Emmy-award quality. The rapid pace of Harvey's breakdown seemed odd to me at first, but as the first part went on I understood exactly why he was acting so strangely. All the parts come together well, and the end of the second half has to be one of the most touching moments in the entire series. It's a shame they apparently threw away his character after only one more good episode, because it would have been nice to get a final resolution over the course of the entire series. Seriously, if The Batman can wrap up Ethan Bennet's arch in a suitable fashion, than there's no way in heck that B:TAS couldn't have done even better with Harvey-Dent.

One more thing I should add: the title theme in the first half is possibly the simplest in the show's entire run, and yet it was perhaps the best yet in establishing the theme of the episode. Brilliant, I say. ;)

[-batmat-]

"Two-Face, Part 1" is my favorite episode of the entire show.
"Two-Face, Part 2" is just a nice episode.

Simple :D

[JTMarsh]

The scenes of Harvey slipping into his "Big Bad Harv" persona with the shrink and later the grotesque closeups of his face as he cracks under the strain of Thorne blackmailing him are among some of the most chilling moments in animation I've ever seen.

[DerekPowers]

"Two-Face, Part 1" is my favorite episode of the entire show.

Mine too :) .

[-batmat-]

Mine too :) .

cool! I think it's unique, the best ending scene from all the Batman episodes. My brother (a good artist) made this drawing a couple of years ago:

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp304/matirocker/scan0002.jpg

[Jacob T. Paschal]

I finally caught Part 2 for the first time in a while. I don't remember much of Batman: The Animated Series, but the voice acting has never really impressed me much. Richard Moll, however, in his final screams of agony during Part 2 was finally delivering the level of emotional power I've been looking for in this series' cast. I must say, though, after watching this I find it hard to not see an eventual recovery. Of course, though, I know the final episode of the series still has Dent crazy and unredeemed. Personally, I just find that an unsatisfying end to his arc, but I guess that's a discussion for another day.

John Vernon's Thorne in this episode is also top-notch. Thorne is such a smug you-know-what that it really makes me want to see his fall all that much more.

[Wonderwall]

I think that's the first time I've heard someone say they weren't impressed by the voice acting of BTAS. I'm not saying you're wrong but...well..you know;). But yes Moll's screaming is great, I actually like his last bit there when Batman tell's him to let the law handle it. Sometimes I still use "The great equalizer" in real life.

As for him not recovering, arcs weren't the style at the time back then outside of two parters. I wonder if they did it now if they would have him eventually recovered. I never minded him not recovering just because not everyone recovers from the terrible trauma that Harvey went through but I can see why others might be unsatisfied with it.

[Yojimbo]

As for him not recovering, arcs weren't the style at the time back then outside of two parters. I wonder if they did it now if they would have him eventually recovered. I never minded him not recovering just because not everyone recovers from the terrible trauma that Harvey went through but I can see why others might be unsatisfied with it.Well, Two-Face was a static character on The Brave and The Bold; it didn't delve into his origin or rehabilitation. But on The Batman, the sorta-stand in for Two-Face; the first Clayface did have a revolving storyline were he was a villain for awhile, helped fight the second Clayface, and in "Artifacts" it was inferred he eventually rejoined the GCPD. So in current animation, you could say it's 50:50. ;)

[Jacob T. Paschal]

I think that's the first time I've heard someone say they weren't impressed by the voice acting of BTAS. I'm not saying you're wrong but...well..you know;). But yes Moll's screaming is great, I actually like his last bit there when Batman tell's him to let the law handle it. Sometimes I still use "The great equalizer" in real life.

As for him not recovering, arcs weren't the style at the time back then outside of two parters. I wonder if they did it now if they would have him eventually recovered. I never minded him not recovering just because not everyone recovers from the terrible trauma that Harvey went through but I can see why others might be unsatisfied with it.

Yeah, the voice acting in the series is otherwise below average or just not very good at all. I guess that's what happens when the majority of animation and professional voice acting is focused on comedy, rather than a variety of genres. Moll's performances here was a lot closer to what I'd expect from such an acclaimed series all the time, really. Bare minimum.

As for 'arc', I say that in the sense of the character's arc. There's that shred of hope here that tells me "Alright, next is the middle of the arc. Dent struggles with his path, supported by his friends and family. Ultimately, Dent overcomes." That's what I'm looking for, because an otheriwse ending just feels too contrived after this second part, unless directly addressed, at the very least.

[Wonderwall]

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that as that series for me has good to great voice acting and some of the best ever no matter what the counrty of origin. As for the little comedy statement I find that slightly absurd, sure there's a lot of comedy on this side of the world but the voice directors like Andrea Romano know how to direct real emotion out of these actors( and a lo of them probably were the same ones on those same comedy shows as well ) that aren't just for laughs. But to each their own I suppose.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that as that series for me has good to great voice acting and some of the best ever no matter what the counrty of origin. As for the little comedy statement I find that slightly absurd, sure there's a lot of comedy on this side of the world but the voice directors like Andrea Romano know how to direct real emotion out of these actors( and a lo of them probably were the same ones on those same comedy shows as well ) that aren't just for laughs. But to each their own I suppose.

I've been doing my best to keep up with the airings of this series on The Hub and I've already caught a few of the major episodes of the series. Heart of Ice, On Leather Wings, and now Two-Face. For a series that tries to take itself seriously, the voice acting isn't very good. It's clear most of the chosen talent don't have proper training in the field. This is most evident in the guest actors. Always Another Chance is suppose to be a strong, down-to-Earth story, but instead I found the momentum constantly stifled by the actors' weak performances.

So far, the only particularly good performance I've seen out of Conroy was in On Leather Wings, otherwise his performance has been pretty flat and without power. It's funny, though, that it would be the episode where Conroy voices two characters* that his Batman gets extra attention paid to keeping dark and powerful. Conroy luckily improved in the later years, at least.

*The rookie blimp cop throughout the episode. Conroy trying to pitch himself up in such a high range while trying to act in his first voice acting gig...is simply not a good combination.


But hey, Two-Face! Not too bad an story, yo.