Justice League "Legends, Parts 1 & 2" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Bird Boy]

A new two-part Justice League adventure!


http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jl/talkback.jpg (http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jl/)

Episode #18 - Legends, Part 1
Original Airdate - April 21st, 2002

During a fight with Lex Luthor, the Justice League is blasted into an alternate reality where they meet the Justice Guild of America, a group of old-fashioned comic-book heroes whose exploits Green Lantern remembers reading about when he was a kid.


Episode #19 - Legends, Part 2
Original Airdate - April 28th, 2002

After coming across startling evidence concerning the Justice Guild, Green Lantern approaches the heroes with it with horrific results.

Comments?

[Karkull]

An all-new episode! Should be great!

[Green Lantern]

From the ToonZone News Page (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26609)...
While battling a giant robot, Green Lantern, Hawk Girl, Flash and J'Onn J'Onzz are blasted into an alternate reality. In idyllic Seaboard City, they meet their doppelgangers, a group of old-fashioned comic book heroes called the Justice Guild of America. As they search for a way to get back to their reality, the members of the Justice League join the Justice Guild to battle villains like the Sportsman, Dr. Blizzard and the Musicmaster. But as they team up with Catman, Black Siren, Tom Turbine, the Green Guardsman and The Streak, Green Lantern begins to realize that there's something peculiar about Seaboard City and its hometown superheroes.

I would run the risk of saying that I am this board's biggest JSA fan. And if I am THE biggest JSA fan, I am on the list of top five. And as one of the biggest JSA fans of this board, I give this episode 5 stars. I would gladly give this episode 7 stars if I'd had the foresight to adjust the poll to include a 7 star option. :)

The opening fight sequence was incredibly well choreographed, with Superman and Batman working together to take down the robot that was Ultron. Not showing Lex explicitly was a stroke of genius on the part of the creative team, but we all know it was him from his pre-Crisis green warsuit.

What I found especially pleasing was the manner in which the team was transported to Seaboard City... in Flash #123 (vol 1) Barry Allen teleported to Keystone City in a similar manner by spinning at an incredible rate and actually departing our inverse. On a related note, the explanation given by Tom Turbine regarding the principles of molecule vibration and parallel earths is VERBATUM the explanation given in the pre-Crisis universe for explaining how there could be so many Earths.

And what ABOUT Tom Turbine? What about the others?

I loved them. I loved everything about them. I wondered how they were going to pull off the Atom with the Superman undertones, but if you look at his eyes and his hair, you see that's the Fleischer Superman design. Extremely well done! I really enjoyed this character.

Hell, I enjoyed all the characters. I loved Catman (Batman/Wildcat) and his little buddy, Ray. "Holy hijacking, Catman!" Who else loved that? Who else loved J'Onn's "I'm reluctant to put the child in danger," to which Catman quickly replied "Sure, you can come along!"

Streak was Jay Garrick to a "T." I'd hate to say that "You can see it in his eyes," but you can. That's Jay all the way, the greatest Flash of them all. Wally's good, and Wally's funny, especially his various lines in this episode, but Jay Garrick was the first and still the best. I missed his metal winged helmet.

Green Guardsman was also very much Alan Scott. (The name "Scott Mason" was pretty clever.) I hope this changed some people's opinions on the effectiveness of ring constructs, and the plot device of the ring having a weakness. I was in stitches when I heard "My ring is useless against aluminum!" (Alan Scott's weakness was wood) and it made Hawkgirl go after the guys. If you want Green Lantern weaker in terms of not making constructs, then give him a weakness and have him make the constructs. It'll balance out.

And Green Lantern remembering Green Guardsman was a great nod to the original relationship of Jay Garrick and Barry Allen. As I have posted elsewhere, Jay Garrick was a comic book character in Barry Allen's reality, and Barry's personal hero. When Barry got his powers, he was inspired by Jay to dress up in a costume and fight crime. It was later revealed that the writers of Flash had a psychic link into Earth 2, where Jay really lived.

Hawkgirl is still my favorite Leaguer. She's so strong, not just physically, but in willpower. She's so damn respectable. I never want this character left out of a story again. And Flash hitting on her makes for some of the best lines of the series. "...you'll be the world's fastest man with a limp."

I've gone on too long already, and people probably stopped reading what I've said 6 paragraphs ago. But I will say that I am BAFFLED by the conclusion of this half, and even more baffled by the previews for next week. I can't wait to see where this will go.

BEST EPISODE EVER. THIS EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOPPED.

[The Green Hornet]

im ranking this episode 5 stars based on the previews alone.

my preliminary favorite JGA members are Tom Turbine (cool name!) The Green Guardsman and The Streak (Alan Scott and Jay Garrick anyone? :D)

any golden-age bashers need not watch tonites episode

all who are fans should rejoice.

[Cere]

I'm actually a little skeptical about tonight's episode. The alternate heroes look interesting, but I wonder how they're going to wring a "save the world" storyline out of it.

Ah well, I had the same qualms about "Brave and Bold" too (it looked like another talking monkey story; boy, was I wrong). I hopefully shall stand corrected in 50 minutes.

[Tmansdc]

For me add three hours onto fifty minutes. It sucks, a lot of people get to see the episode before me!

[Nightfeather]

OMG~! This is the funniest episode I think I've ever seen!

The campiness rating on a scale of 10 is about 37.

And that Powerpuff/Legon Of Doom Clip! Pure greatness.

[Borg4of3]

I could not stop laughing during this episode! From the exaggerated corny dialogue to the subtle jabs at political correctness, this easily beats out Brave and the Bold as the funniest episode of the first season. I loved it!

[The Green Hornet]

This had to be the best episode ever concieved.

STUNNINGLY true to the Golden Age, from dialogue to the actions of the JGA themselves. We got the principles of the Cosmic Treadmill and saw some GREAT action

Flash must have been in heaven with all the bad jokes going on in his fight

The "Roll Call", decoder rings and the entire IDEA of the JGA Clubhouse was BEYOND cool. I hope we get to see a little more of Tom Turbine in part two-- he seems pretty cool

5 stars ALL THE WAY

LET JUSTICE PREVAIL!

[Red]

This Episode was Awesome! Just plain Awesome! I loved the idea for the episode!


5 stars!

[Bud 'n Lou]

Best line: "You're a real credit to your people."

[Borg4of3]

LOL!

My fave quote: "One more word and you'll be the fastest man alive... with a limp,"

[Failure]

Great campiness, super cheesy dialogue, just plain old wacky villains, and yet, I love it! Awesome parody.

Nice ending too, I have no clue what's going on. Definitely looking forward to next week's ep. 5 stars!

[Dark Knight]

OH my GOD!
I said this episode would be hit or miss for me and it was a massive hit! Five stars easily, I've never seen anything so funny in a superhero spoof!
"My ring has no effect on alluminum!"
LOL!
Wow... and the cliffhanger/preview for part 2 has me insanesly curious. The only other episode that comes even close to being funnier than that is the first part of "Legends of the Dark Knight" and that doesnt even cut it... so many great quotes. Im going to have to watch this like 6 more times... god bless my VCR.

[JohnStewart-GL]

tHIS EP WAS great. the superman portrayal was good. even though he wasnt in the whole part. the battle with Luthors robot was beautifully animated and the team worked together perfectly. It was real funny. i cant believe the ddin't edit out the "Your a credit to your people" line.
My dad says he rembers when a black person did something good thats what a whit e person said. and the part were flash was about to cuss. and the 50S THING WAS GREAT. aND FOR A FEW MINS WE SAW luthor. But what gives is the JGA dead or alive? this is the biggest cliffhanger from pt1 to pt2 so far in JL.
the JGA reminded me so much of Superfriends. And all the cheezyness. and do you guys thing the kid was supposed to be like Marvin or Wendy? And the guys who luv constructs got there wish.

[Joe Tully]

Lately, I've been one of the more negative voices around here, and I loved this one. They were able to milk the campiness for everything they could get, and I laughed my butt off. This could possibly be the best episode so far. I'm looking forward to the second half. With all the hype about this episode, they really had to do a good job on it, and they certainly surpassed my expectations. Hawkgirl was priceless in this episode, and Flash's own jokes played off of Dr. Blizzard's corny lines very well. Catman letting the kid go along with them despite J'onns's comment got a big laugh out of me, and it was nice to see that Catman had some of the feel of the old Adam West Batman. I have my own theory about J'onn's headaches, but I'll keep my mouth shut for now. 4.5 stars.

[Nightfeather]

Thank god I have Satellite TV and can catch the west coast feed in a few hours and watch it again. Too many funny things to mention. Too bad they didn't have Batman go back as well. Listening to his reactions as he interacts with the heroes and villians would have been priceless.

[Knight]

I thought the episode was just ok. I dont really care for all the campiness. I liked the battle against the robot at the begining more than anything.

[Borg4of3]

Tru- the beginning was amazing! That was the best teamwork we've ever seen from the Justice League! :D

[ZorBrak]

interesting concept, though I have been saying I would have liked them cross dimensions and meet either their current comic counterparts or the super friends :p

[The Green Hornet]

The begining was ASTOUNDING

Seeing superman do DAMAGE was amazing

and the way flash opened that portal..........so cool

shades of the cosmic treadmill!

[Nightfeather]

I think my favorite part had to be the Truck filled with explosives (complete with "TNT" sign on the side) about to crash into a bus full of nuns. Flash: You've gotta be kidding...

[Bud 'n Lou]

Originally posted by Failure
Nice ending too, I have no clue what's going on. Definitely looking forward to next week's ep. 5 stars!

Yeah, that's what I liked best. I can't predict what's gonna happen in part two, (except that the league will find their way home, of course) and with most of the past episodes, it was a little easier to figure out how it was going to end. Good mystery so far. I hope part two isn't going to be disappointing.
Some of the dialogue was cheesy, but MOST of the time, it was meant to be. It had plenty of funny moments too.
My biggest gripe is the way they were transported. I dunno, I thought they coulda come up with something a little better. I mean, what's to stop Flash from going into another dimension EVERY time he runs at super speed?

[The Green Hornet]

this was almost EXACTLY how Barry Allen wound up going between dimensions

it had to do with the super-energy blast and his massive speed

the cosmic treadmill is based on the ideas put forward by Tom Turbine and what actually happened when flash saved his friends from that robot

[JohnStewart-GL]

WHOA MOMMA! 10 of us actually gave an ep of JL the highest rating. im stunnend. and so happy? :D

[Bud 'n Lou]

Oh, thanks to whoever mentioned Flash's exchange with Dr. Blizzard. That's something else I didn't like. It reminded me too much of Freeze's dialogue in Batman & Robin... *shudder*

[warmachine04]

Hilarious. Between the hokey lines and classic campiness, I have to agree that this is the funniest and most off-beat episode ever. There is enough funny momments and memmorable dialogue to keep me laughing till next week's episode. The ending is surprisingly clever.


:) :) :) :) :) / 5 :)


Favorite Quote: "One more word and you'll be the fastest man alive... with a limp"

[The Green Hornet]

im sure it was meant to be a subtle jab at the movie

i loved it-- it SCREAMED golden age

if i were a super-hero, id want to be Golden Age-- those were the days to be sure!!

[Borg4of3]

I don't know who Andrew Kreisberg is, but I love his writing!

Man, I still can't get over seeing 'Music Master' for the first time - it was like watching LoTDK and 60s Batman all over again!

And we saw very little character stupidity this time around. GL taking away Tom Turbine's belt, Flash taking away Blizzard's ice-cap-thingy, etc. And I loved how GL forced Green Guardsman to start using beams and bubbles too, hehe.

But could we please kill off the Justice Guild Junior Justice Guildsman Ray... Please? :p


And I think Flash's dialogue against Blizzard was his retort against the campiness of the JG's dialogue. I loved that too!

[BatKid]

I agree with everyone here that I couldn't stop laughing because of the cornyness in the episode. This was a very good episode, and the ending left me very curious as well. I'll make sure I'll catch Part II.

[Binaroid]

Well, somebody has to say it...

Even with all the fan service in today's episode (ring constructs, the 2-minute primer on the Infinite Earths), the most remarkable thing to me about this episode was Lex Luthor(?) apparently stealing Unit 02 from the anime Neon Genesis Evangelion, painting it green, and operating it by remote control.

I missed the first half of the prologue, so I don't know if it had any force (AT?) fields, but that made my day, and the day of anyone who's posted to any versus debates ever.

[Joker85]

This episode had me LMAO!!! :D There were too many great one liners to list here, but the Hawkgirl/Cookies fiasco was the best. The busload of nuns and TNT was pretty funny too. Justice League is only getting better as the season progresses! The cliffhanger was very good too. This is the first time I actually felt like it was a real cliffhanger, if that makes sense. Was Luthor in this one??? I must have missed him, I missed the first minute or so. Can't wait for next weeks!!!

[Borg4of3]

Originally posted by Binaroid
Well, somebody has to say it...

Even with all the fan service in today's episode (ring constructs, the 2-minute primer on the Infinite Earths), the most remarkable thing to me about this episode was Lex Luthor(?) apparently stealing Unit 02 from the anime Neon Genesis Evangelion, painting it green, and operating it by remote control.

I missed the first half of the prologue, so I don't know if it had any force (AT?) fields, but that made my day, and the day of anyone who's posted to any versus debates ever.


LOL! Good catch! It didn't use any AT fields, but it was an awesome likeness. As for who was in control - It didn't sound or look too much like Luthor... I wonder if we'll find out in the next part, or if he'll turn out to be just an anonymous bad-guy. Or maybe he meant to bring the JL to the JG's alternate world... Maybe it was a grown up Shinji? Who knows...

[Karkull]

Before I go on with my comments, I just have to get this off my chest:

I HATE CARTOON NETWORK AND FOX FOR MAKING ME CHOOSE! I HATE THAT I HAVE TO RUN BETWEEN THE VCR IN MY BASEMENT AND THE ONE IN MY ROOM IN ORDER TO TAPE BOTH JUSTICE LEAGUE AND FUTURAMA! I HATE THAT MY VCR DIDN'T START PROPERLY, SO I ENDED UP NOT GETTING THE FIRST HALF OF LEGENDS! ARRRGHHH!

:yawn:

Anyway, based on what I did see, I think that it was very funny. Not only do they poke fun of the Golden Age, but they also make fun of the 60s Batman T.V. show, the Superfriends, and just about any and every Golden Age comic book character. I already want Justice Guild action figures, plus I'd like to see them make another appearance...assuming that they're really them (see the ending).

BONUS: Tom Turbine's explaination of the Infinite Earths theory kind of sets it up for a Crime Syndicate appearance, huh?

[MWilburyJr]

I have not posted a review of any particular episodes, but this was so good, that I have to share my enthusiasm about this one.

Wow.

Wow. wow. wow.

That opening sequence was everything this show should be. Very epic. . . the league finally showed some teamwork, it was well animated, it had Super Powers Lex Luthor, and it had real impact as it rolled into the opening credits.

Getting further into the episode, I loved the clever and amusing way they approached the gender and race roles between the teams. Loved all the classic comic references and horrible puns. I am more excited for part 2 than I have ever been with this show. My first 5 stars and the first Justice League classic in my opinion.

Applause all around.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Borg4of3



As for who was in control - It didn't sound or look too much like Luthor... I wonder if we'll find out in the next part, or if he'll turn out to be just an anonymous bad-guy. Or maybe he meant to bring the JL to the JG's alternate world... Maybe it was a grown up Shinji? Who knows...

It looked like it was Luthor with his Powersuit on to me.

[The Guitar Slayer]

Oh, Lord, that was hilarious!

There was one scene when Flash was looking up at one of the flying heroes....that is what I call a "confused dog" look. I was cracking up through the whole episode. Flash the womanizer strikes again....Poor Hawkgirl. "You're a credit to your people..." I didn't expect GL to let Streak live. "Nothing that a cold glass of milk can't help. Ha ha ha." That is so 1950s and so wholesome. I hope next season they come over to Gotham and let Bats handle little Ray....Oh god...

This was purposely cheesy and I enjoyed it. It was meant to be, and unlike "Freddy Got Fingered," it was a success. 5 stars!

[Borg4of3]

Actually, about that Lex Luthor thing...

My bad! I thought that at first, but when he started grunting, it didn't sound too much like him... but I looked at his battlesuit design and, yup, you guys were right - that was Luthor!

[scarface_74]

My favorite one liner had to be "You're credit to your people" that line was classic as was GL's expression. I couldn't believe that they would put something so un-PC on JL. II've had similar things said to me but I bet it flew right over most people's head. I was half expecting him to say "you people have come such a long way" to GL :p

[Bleu Unicorn]

Well, I was pretty impressed with Legends. The beginning, though, was my favorite part. It was nice to see Superman in action for once. It's been a long time. The damage from the blast pretty much blew me away! I just sat there open-mouthed for a few seconds.
The Justice Guild, though, not to sound like I'm bad-mouthing it. But it was almost too much. I have to say I laughed a lot during this episode. It was almost comical watching Hawkgirl interact with Black Siren. I almost fell off my chair when she refused to get dessert!

The characters were pretty interesting -- though, it was almost a little too cheesy to bare. While, not berrating anything in particular, I'm so glad that JL is nothing like the JG -- or I'd have to rethink my television watching practices.

All in all, it was a good episode. The voice acting and the animation were done very well -- no complaints that I can think of.

Can't wait for Part Two, I'm already psyched!

[Palin Dromos]

That was so much fun!! The opening battle was spectacluar- teamwork, glimpses of Luthor, giant robot. It had it all.

Then the JGA was soooo funny- the roll call, the decoder rings. And then to add the political spin with Black Siren, and Streak's comment to GL.

And let's not forget the Injustice Guild! That first shot of Sports Man, with the basketball was hilarious!

When Hawkgirl and GG were teaming up the whole thing was great. The aluminum comment! HAH!

And of course there was an actual cliffhanger, the end of B&B part 1 was worrisome, but this, this was down right baffling. Can't wait till next week. (Where's my time machine when I really need it)

[The Guard]

Ray was Sandy the Golden Boy, right?

Lol. Great episode. I loved the cookies and the decoder rings...

Heck I loved the whole thing.

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Unbeleiveable...just unbeleivable...the boy mascot was a very cool edition...the Justice League would have never allowed a kid to join them in battle...the show was so ausome...the table looked like the JSA's table...the rings were pretty cool as well...plus the kid mascot was a cool tribute to both Jimmy Olsen and Robin. (He used corny phrases like "Jeepers" and "Holy Hijacks Batman!") That was sooo ausome....but it looks like part two is going to be a lot more serious...I can't wait to see what happens. If Green Gaurdsman is dead, than who is the guy from the Justice Guild...I guess I'll have to wait and see! But anyway, definitly a great episode...it gave me that old time feeling!

[Calico]

This was the funniest episode, it was great! And Hawkgirl has just shot up in my esteem. The 'limp' line was great, and I also liked when she agreed to go with Black Siren, "So you save the world and bake cookies?" LOL!! And Tom Turbine's line to Roy when he says he wants to be a hero when he grows up, "Well if you eat right and stay in school". 4.5 stars.

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Yes...the episode was definitly funny...and let's go ahead and admit it...it was rediculous...but not far-fetched...after all...it's in another universe...we can't assume that all universes are not rediculous...because we've never seen them.

[JTurner954]

Wow, this episode proves once again that you don't need big characters like Batman and Superman to make a great episode.


This was so good, but I'm going to give it a 4 1/2 star vote since it is a Part 1 story (if Part 2 is this good or better, I will give it five). This show has got to come to DVD and stay there (only two days until the first three episodes are on DVD. YAYY). Everyone mostly said what was on my mind, so I won't repeat it. I had a big grin throughout this whole episode and it never went away :D. Flash is my favorite in this one. GO FLASH.

BTW, I accidently voted four stars instyead of four and a half. Can a moderator change my vote to four and a half??

[JLU Dude]

I really liked this episode. The cheeseiness even made me that to gag, but that part of the reason I liked it. I can't wait to see Part Two. I hope Part Two as a scene of Batman and Superman having a chat with Luthor.

[MeAmBizzaro]

Magnificent! This episode was clever, funny and yet an homage to the true golden age of the JSA. Couple questions:

1. Did anyone else think Batman's role was unecessary? Superman could've finished the job.

2. Does Black Siren have any powers like Black Canary's Canary Cry?

3. Who was the Sportsman supposed to be? I recognize Icicle, Abra Kadabra, and Maestro(?)

4. Anyone catch Vandal Savage's portrait hanging in the Injustice Guild's hideout?

[The Green Hornet]

i MISSED the Savage portrait-- im gonna have to keep an eye out for it!


and i have NO qualms about what batman did-- because SUPERMAN was SUPER for once! thats how hes SUPPOSED to be

[MeAmBizzaro]

Originally posted by The Guard
Ray was Sandy the Golden Boy, right?

Lol. Great episode. I loved the cookies and the decoder rings...

Heck I loved the whole thing.

The kid mascott, Ray Thompson, i think was supposed to be Snapper Carr of the Silver Age JLA.

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by The Green Hornet
i MISSED the Savage portrait-- im gonna have to keep an eye out for it!


and i have NO qualms about what batman did-- because SUPERMAN was SUPER for once! thats how hes SUPPOSED to be
I can't believe yo said that. pinch me. no but seriously im glad you thought supes was super again.
now heres to hoping hes like that for the rest of the series.

[The Green Hornet]

well he got in a GREAT shot with John

then he TORE OPEN that robot-- that was GREAT

he didnt get his butt kicked like everyone else did :D :D :D

when superman is super, batman can be free to be smart :)


when everyone knows their role, its all good :)

[Knight]

I also was glad Superman got to do something without having his butt kicked. The double assault by him and J'onn and then Supe's ripping the robot open were great. This had one one the best openings to a ep by far.

[Borg4of3]

Its too bad GL's role in that beginning fight was to get knocked out and stay down. Oh well, he made up for it big time by pretty much being the team leader for the rest of the ep :)

I think Sportsman is like a rebirth of Captain Boomerang with a more diverse gimmick.

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

I forgot to mention that I didn't watch this episode until I got home and watched it from the tape I recorded it on. And when I heard the mascot say "Holy Hijacks Catman!" I laughed so hard I had to pause it a second so I wouldn't miss anything...then I rewound it and watched it again...twice!! It was just a hilarious line...long live the Pre-Crisis Dick Grayson!!!

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by MeAmBizzaro


The kid mascott, Ray Thompson, i think was supposed to be Snapper Carr of the Silver Age JLA.

The name also reminded me of comic legend Roy Thomas.

Roy worked on two post-Golden-Age comics that were based in the Golden Age, DC's All-Star Squadron and Marvel's The Invaders.

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by Knight
I also was glad Superman got to do something without having his butt kicked. The double assault by him and J'onn and then Supe's ripping the robot open were great. This had one one the best openings to a ep by far.
when superman flew in in my head i was saying.."Please don't get beat up, please don't get beatup" and he didn't. i so happy.

[Bud 'n Lou]

Originally posted by MeAmBizzaro
1. Did anyone else think Batman's role was unecessary? Superman could've finished the job.


Yeah, did he even have a single line of dialogue, or did I just miss it?

[Kaspar]

Sportsman was basically Sportsmaster, a JSA villain. Music Master was the Fiddler.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy all,

Due to technical difficulties (Karkull and I are having technology-challeneged evenings, it seems), I have 10 minutes of Iron Chef before Legends. So, this opinion is based on the last 20 mins of the episode.

What "Beware the Gray Ghost" is to BTAS, "Legends" seems to be to JL. It serves as a loving tribute to the older, admittedly campier and goofier influences which led to comicdom as we know it today. It pulls off an incredible balancing act between the oversized silliness of the Golden Age with the seriousness of the modern era, pulling knowing winks at the audience every step of the way.

While I don't think the episode was quite as insanely great as "Beware the Gray Ghost," (as always, Maxie Zeus' BTAS site expounds on the episode with far more eloquence and intelligence than I could muster), and while I am a bit wary about the show maintaining the balance throughout the second episode (IMO, none of the second parts of stories have quite matched the first parts), this episode was spectacularly enjoyable.

Anybody else notice William Katt providing a voice? Admittedly, getting "The Greatest American Hero" (Anybody? Or am I just showing how old I am?) isn't as cool of a pop-culture reference as Adam West, but it's still pretty funny. Stephen Root as Catman was amusing, too. I could have sworn the Musician guy was Wolfgang Puck, too =8^).

"You're a credit to your race." As an Asian-American, I can completely sympathize with John Stewart's sentiment when someone tosses off a racist comment that was really meant to be a compliment ("You speak English very well" is usually the one I get). Maybe I'm reading too much into the scene, but I'm pretty impressed that they included the scene and managed to show John Stewart's tiny inner turmoil one runs through when faced with such a left-handed complement.

Very much looking forward to seeing the full episode again, and part 2.

Hey, who were the Golden Age bad guy equivalents? Sir Swami was Sargon the Sorcerer, and I know the Musician had a Golden Age equivalent. Dr. Blizzard might have been Captain Cold, but who was the Sportsman supposed to be? (EDIT: OK, Kaspar just answered the Sportsman query.)

-- Ed/Ace

[BeastBoyWonder]

This episode was AWESOME...there are nitpicks, like usual, but they pale in comparison to the good points of this ep. At first I thought it wasn't meant to be a "serious" story, but then the mood became awfully eerie after J'onn's vision the last time around and Hawkgirl reading the gravestone...my guess is that some illusory elements are involved.

[The Guard]

Speaking of...

Where DID Batman and Superman go? Think that'll be a major plot point? And what's with the visions J'onn had, of world's exploding, and ravaged?

[Bud 'n Lou]

Originally posted by The Guard
Speaking of...

Where DID Batman and Superman go? Think that'll be a major plot point? And what's with the visions J'onn had, of world's exploding, and ravaged?

They stayed put. We'll probably see that again at the end of part two. And I think drummerboy is right. There must be some kind of illusion that only he can pick up on.

[Knight]

Originally posted by MeAmBizzaro
[B]

1. Did anyone else think Batman's role was unecessary? Superman could've finished the job.

2B]

I have to admit I thought Superman could have finished the robot off all by himself too by either using his heat vision or going in and physically destroying the powersource. But It didnt bother me that he didnt.

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by Knight


I have to admit I thought Superman could have finished the robot off all by himself too by either using his heat vision or going in and physically destroying the powersource. But It didnt bother me that he didnt.
me too. but it was good teamwork

[Memphis Bleek]

This episode was fanastic. The fighting scence at the being was awesome. Seeing all the lame stuff in the JG world was funny. I laughed my head off when Green Guardsman said his ring didn't work on aluminum. The JG's villians were perfect. What kind of villians tell you what their going to do? I would have like to have seen how Wonder Woman would have react to Black Siren. One final note the teen mascot that come along with Catman was pure child endangerment and typically golden age superhero stuff. The guys behind JL did their homework on this one.

[Nightfeather]

Re: Batman's "unnecessary" role.


Well, Superman could have probably taken out the robot without any help from anyone. Besides, given the damage that the robot caused upon exploding, it's probably good that Supes wasn't there.

[BeastBoyWonder]

Combine the wierd visions with the gravestones and excited kid, and I think we have a theory here...

This episode was fantastic on a multitude of levels...the fight scene at the beginning was great, and a combination of the beautiful animation and intense action wrapped up by the robot exploding made me go "Whoa!"

The combination of humor and action in this episode was intense, and I was either laughing or had my eyes glued to the screen. I ADORED the flash in this ep, with his "hey cookie", "everyone pair up with the person on your left", and general wisecracks. The personalities of the JL interacted well with each other, and were consistent with most of the series that we have seen so far. When I first heard about this episode I thought the plot would be pretty farfetched, even for fantasy like JL. After watching the episode, it didn't seem that wild plotwise after all...the villians at first seem like the main antagonists, but then we get little hints dropped to us that something bigger is goin' on, like J'onn's visions and the gravestones.

[The Green Hornet]

everyone pair up with the person on your left



that line NEVER would have worked with the regular league-- but its just campy and 50's enough that the JGA was all for it!

god i love the JGA


LET JUSTICE PREVAIL!

[Livewire]

This episode was filled with corniness--corniness I presume was intended, of course. In fact, there were such numerous corny lines; I was laughing so hard that I'll have to watch this ep again to catch what I probably missed while I was..laughing. :D



3 1/2 stars. I don't read comics, so I wasn't quite sure who all the JG and IG members were playing homage to, but I enjoyed this episode nonetheless. Hawkgirl's lines, not to mention the cheesy lines that the Justice Guilders delivered, caused my sides to ache. "Legends" was just pure, plain fun, and I'm eager to see what part 2 has in store for us.



BTW, it did seem like Batman was unnecessary. Like others said, Superman's heat vision could have taken the place of the batarang.

[The Green Hornet]

The Streak= Jay Garrick, the ORIGINAL Flash
Green Guardsman= Alan Scott, the ORIGINAL Green Lantern
Cat-Man= Batman+Wildcat
Black Siren=ORIGINAL Black Canary
Tom Turbine= Superman+ORIGINAL Atom

[JTurner954]

Batman could of been there to help save people who got into that big robot's path. Who cares if a person doesn't have a major role? Just let the episode be. Accept it already.

[Borg4of3]

Alrighty, here's some fan-induced continuity to explain Batman's role in the beginning:

I'm taking Superman's line: "You're only getting one shot, Batman... Now!", as proof that they've faced Luthor's Eva 02 before, and were defeated by it. They then realized that they needed a plan. Batman studied old Evangelion episodes and discovered the Eva's one and only weakness. When it attacked Everytown, USA, they were ready with a strategy of attack, as well as Batman's Bata-Super-Weakness-Exploiter-Rang created and ready and raring to go... the only weapon that could have possibly destroyed the Eva 02's core.

...or they just wanted to make Batman feel useful this time around... :p

[WonderRaver]

The Golden Age villains that were cloned were...
Icicle
The Fiddler (wink-wink: he stole a fiddle/violin)
The Sportsman
The Wizard (someone had said Sargon, but he was a good guy)

I don't think the kid mascot is completely a copy of Snapper Carr... I think he will turn out to be a clone of...
Johnny Thunder
because...
he had his "thunderbolt" recreate the world after it was destroyed.

But, it is only a hypothesis.

-Matt

[Tmansdc]

Twenty-five people have voted *****!

I haven't seen it yet, but I'll vote when it's over. It airs in eight minutes here (i'm on pacific time so we see it later than the rest of you do.

[Tmansdc]

Originally posted by Livewire
This episode was filled with corniness--corniness I presume was intended, of course. In fact, there were such numerous corny lines; I was laughing so hard that I'll have to watch this ep again to catch what I probably missed while I was..laughing. :D



3 1/2 stars. I don't read comics, so I wasn't quite sure who all the JG and IG members were playing homage to, but I enjoyed this episode nonetheless. Hawkgirl's lines, not to mention the cheesy lines that the Justice Guilders delivered, caused my sides to ache. "Legends" was just pure, plain fun, and I'm eager to see what part 2 has in store for us.



BTW, it did seem like Batman was unnecessary. Like others said, Superman's heat vision could have taken the place of the batarang.

see, there goes JL Superman, being a wuss again. Man, I bet Lex Luthor without a super suit could touch superman with his pinky and Superman would fly backwards about thirty feet and be knocked out for four years!

[Bruce Wayne]

I gave it a 4 and a half. It was a great episode, but nothing to special to bring up my interest.I loved the corny dialouge the most. Especially when some dialogue we normally hear from our JL is mixed in.. ahh the humor.

The next episode is a must see.

[BlackTerror]

Great episode, easily my favorite so far.

Also of note: The villains' plot to capture the Justice Guild while stealing historical artifacts is based off a classic JSA issue in which the Injustice Society steal America's most famous monuments (Liberty Bell, Plymouth Rock, etc). If you noticed a battle on an airship in the commercial for the next episode...that's from the same story as well. The comic tale involves hynposis (the JSA are hypnotized into being the ISA's slaves) too, which may figure into whatever the weird illusion/mind control that seems to be going on in the toon episode.

I also liked how the episode homaged the Golden Age while at the same time making clear some the serious flaws of the time through the unintentionally sexist and rascist lines of the Justice Guild members. Neat idea serving to make it something a little more than just an uncritical celebration of the GA.

[Caped Crusader]

This is without a doubt the funniest episode of JL I've seen! The cheesy dialogue was hilarious (especially the Streak's "so long as you eat right and stay in school" line to Ray) :D. I also enjoyed Hawkgirl's interaction with Black Siren; "you fight crime and bake cookies" was definitely one of my favorite lines. :D Everything about this episode was fun, and I'm looking forward to part two. :)

[metaphysician]

Originally posted by WonderRaver
The Golden Age villains that were cloned were...
Icicle
The Fiddler (wink-wink: he stole a fiddle/violin)
The Sportsman
The Wizard (someone had said Sargon, but he was a good guy)

I don't think the kid mascot is completely a copy of Snapper Carr... I think he will turn out to be a clone of...
Johnny Thunder
because...
he had his "thunderbolt" recreate the world after it was destroyed.

But, it is only a hypothesis.

-Matt

Whoah. Good theory.

I thought that Tom Turbine might be behind it, but basically the same idea.

[Ricochet_The_Sweet14]

man that one was so good. i cant believe how funny that one was.


"how about we go with the one to the left. i guess that means im with you." says flash
lol, catman,lol

[The Green Hornet]

hmmmm

like TT tried to use his time/dimension machine and it blew up the world-- everyone but him?

[The Flash]

Originally posted by JTurner954
BTW, I accidently voted four stars instyead of four and a half. Can a moderator change my vote to four and a half??

Consider it done! :)

[RONDC20]

Great Episode. The Runaway truck full of TNT headed towards the Bus full of Nuns was too funny. This truly is a great show.

I love Superheroes I always have, but I have never seen a good quality animaited representation of a Superhero comic untill Bruce Timm's Batman. That was an amazing show and aside from the first 2 movies it was the best interpertation of Batman I have ever seen.

Then there was the Superman Animaited series which was also great and then there was the revamped Batman animaited series with the new Robin and Nightwing still great. Im gonna skip Batman Beyond ( hate it) and go straight to Justice League. WOW!! I was in awe when I saw the premier episode and I have been hooked ever since.

It is now my opinion that Bruce Timm is the one person who can sucsessfully interpert any Superhero comic into animaited show format. With the exception of Batman Beyond I have liked every Superhero show he has been envolved in.

My favorite superheroes to date are Batman and Spider-Man. Since he has already satisfied me with his vision of Batman I would totally love to see what he could do with Spider-Man if he were given the chance.

Lets face it folks when it comes to animaited series Marvel has had bad luck. All of their attempts at animaited shows based on their comics have failed to gain any real following. Some of you might say that X-Men Evolution is a great show with great animation, but In my opinion there is way too much teenage angst in that show. It's like an animaited Dawson's Creek where they have superpowers.

I am not only a fan of DC Heroes, but also of Marvel Heroes. I mean come on my 2 favorite Superheroes are each from one of these comic companies.

I would really love to see what Bruce Timm could do with Marvel's most famous comics. At the top of my personal list is of course Spider-Man, but here are some more I would love to see.

1)Spider-Man
2)Captain America
3)The Avengers
4)The Fantastic Four


The Bruce Timm version of a Spider-Man show would just be too awsome for my words to describe. I mean can you imagine his awsome animation style for Spider-man. I could just see it now. Mark Hamill as the voice of The Green Goblin.

A Captain America show would be cool too. Since he is the Boyscout stype of Superhero the show would resemble the Superman show in alot of ways, but it would still be cool to see.

An Avengers show would be awsome. This show would of course be very simular to Justice League . The roll call I would pick for this show would be.

1)Captain America
2)Thor
3)Iron Man
4)Vision
5)She-Hulk
6) Scarlet Witch
7)Either Hawkeye or Quicksilver

A Fantastic Four Show would be classic and totally awsome. Bruce Timm's Dr. Doom would probably look great of course.

Well those are the top 4 comics I would love to see Bruce Timm turn into Animaited shows. I know if he were given the chance he would jump on it right away. I know he would be interested, But it's probbably not gonna happen. Well I would love to hear your opinions on this ok

Ronald C

[The Green Hornet]

ive read TIMM would LOVE to do the FF

[Shriek]

I missed the beginning. I tuned into when Flash and Green Lantern were looking at the "new town" and the music man robbed the violin.

I really liked this episode.

[d4rkkn1ght]

Really hilarious episode! I loved the part where Hawkgirl had to make cookies with the Black Siren. Great episode :D

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by RONDC20
Great Episode. The Runaway truck full of TNT headed towards the Bus full of Nuns was too funny. This truly is a great show.

I love Superheroes I always have, but I have never seen a good quality animaited representation of a Superhero comic untill Bruce Timm's Batman. That was an amazing show and aside from the first 2 movies it was the best interpertation of Batman I have ever seen.

Then there was the Superman Animaited series which was also great and then there was the revamped Batman animaited series with the new Robin and Nightwing still great. Im gonna skip Batman Beyond ( hate it) and go straight to Justice League. WOW!! I was in awe when I saw the premier episode and I have been hooked ever since.

It is now my opinion that Bruce Timm is the one person who can sucsessfully interpert any Superhero comic into animaited show format. With the exception of Batman Beyond I have liked every Superhero show he has been envolved in.

My favorite superheroes to date are Batman and Spider-Man. Since he has already satisfied me with his vision of Batman I would totally love to see what he could do with Spider-Man if he were given the chance.

Lets face it folks when it comes to animaited series Marvel has had bad luck. All of their attempts at animaited shows based on their comics have failed to gain any real following. Some of you might say that X-Men Evolution is a great show with great animation, but In my opinion there is way too much teenage angst in that show. It's like an animaited Dawson's Creek where they have superpowers.

I am not only a fan of DC Heroes, but also of Marvel Heroes. I mean come on my 2 favorite Superheroes are each from one of these comic companies.

I would really love to see what Bruce Timm could do with Marvel's most famous comics. At the top of my personal list is of course Spider-Man, but here are some more I would love to see.

1)Spider-Man
2)Captain America
3)The Avengers
4)The Fantastic Four


The Bruce Timm version of a Spider-Man show would just be too awsome for my words to describe. I mean can you imagine his awsome animation style for Spider-man. I could just see it now. Mark Hamill as the voice of The Green Goblin.

A Captain America show would be cool too. Since he is the Boyscout stype of Superhero the show would resemble the Superman show in alot of ways, but it would still be cool to see.

An Avengers show would be awsome. This show would of course be very simular to Justice League . The roll call I would pick for this show would be.

1)Captain America
2)Thor
3)Iron Man
4)Vision
5)She-Hulk
6) Scarlet Witch
7)Either Hawkeye or Quicksilver

A Fantastic Four Show would be classic and totally awsome. Bruce Timm's Dr. Doom would probably look great of course.

Well those are the top 4 comics I would love to see Bruce Timm turn into Animaited shows. I know if he were given the chance he would jump on it right away. I know he would be interested, But it's probbably not gonna happen. Well I would love to hear your opinions on this ok

Ronald C

Hey there! I totally hear ya about the marvel stuff. Check out my Justice League Fan Fiction on the Worlds Finest Fan Fics board! I have 2 screenlays there so far that smash the two universes together, and I plan on writing plenty more.
My JL consists of: Batman, Spidey, Iceman, Rogue, Superman, Marvel Girl (From F4), and Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner.)

Sorry for getting off topic everybody else, just thought I'd plug my work. I like feedback! ;)

[Batman 80]

Great episode! I loved the corniness of it. I can't wait to see part 2.

[SirLemming]

There was a GREAT sense of humor about this episode. And a lot of it was subtle, too.


My favorite humor had to do with the interaction between Green Lantern and The Streak. I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this one right, but I think it might be what the writers intended, and it's Simpsons-level stuff. When The Streak said "You fight well. You're a credit to your people." And then GL sighed. Am I the only one who interpreted that as a racial thing? I thought that was HILARIOUS. If that's what it was supposed to be, it was a commentary on the social status of African-Americans back then. This is similar to the commentary on the social status of women -- when Hawkgirl refused to bake cookies.
The other thing I loved between GL and Streak was when The Streak, referring to the magician villain, said something like, "It's a shame he uses his talent for evil instead of entertaining small children." And GL was like, whatever. The timing was just perfect.

More obvious were the various pokes at cheesy comic book dialogue -- every scene with Dr. Blizzard, for example.

I also liked how that one guy almost always had his eyes closed (the big guy), and when he said "Your safety is of *pause* equal importance."



P.S. - Sorry if I said a lot that's already been said, but I don't have time to read 5 pages right now, so I can't tell.

[Scarlet Speedster]

Fantastic episode all around. The opening fight was one of the first times we saw the JLA truly fight as a team.

As a Flash fan, I was thrilled that we got to see Flash use his powers to their full potential in that fight - first when he started disassembling the robot and later when he created the whirlwind to prevent the robot from crushing the fallen heroes (true, it did result in them being sent to an alternate universe, but up until now it seems the Flash mostly just says funny lines and does high-speed 'Ha Ha - you missed me' dodges. ) I loved seeing Superman and Batman staring at that gaping hole and having no clue what happenned!


The JGA is a riot and a terrific tribute to the silver age heroes. If anybody has a copy of the computer game 'Freedom Force', you can imagine those heroes fitting in well with the JGA. The dialog in Legends was a vivid reminder of those days of not-quite-equal race and gender segregation.

And for the first time, I have no clue where part 2 is going. The suspense and excitement around next week's episode is going to kill me until next Sunday.

[Clayface]

Well, guess I'm one of the few that didn't find this episode very interesting. I don't know why, but this episode really did nothing for me. I didn't laugh at all while watching it - maybe I was just in the wrong mood, or maybe the whole retro thing just didn't appeal to me, but I really didn't find it entertaining at all. The characters were ok, I guess, but, since i'm not familiar with the characters they were parodying, I just didn't care about them, or get a thrill from seeing them.

[Cere]

I have been amazed by the number of praising comments here. People have mentioned specific items that I'd forgotten. I think that ep was so full of hilarious stuff, I'll have to watch it again to absorb everything.

The fight with the robot was awesome. Superman actually played a role!...for about two seconds. But hey, you take what you can get.

The Justice Guild didn't seem like intriguing characters. They were cheesy, two-dimensional superheros...which was probably the point.

The JL looked way cooler than the JG. Tom Turbine had his eyes closed half the time, the Streak's goggles didn't seem superhero-ish, and the Green Guardsman's constructs looked pale compared with GL's. And I think, at least initially, I'll have to side with John Stewart's no-nonsense use of his ring.

The villains were incredibly hilarious! The writers must have spent as much time as they could coming up with every possible cliche for them to use (and Flash working off of Dr. Blizzard!)! The magic guy was almost a legitimate villain. And that sports guy was ridiculous. Stealing a sports trophy was an earth crime? Hilarious!

And also, a few bad points. The issue of the woman's place is brought up with Black Siren assuming the once-typical woman's role. However, nothing is done with it. The episode brings up the topic but does not comment.

Then, there's the ending. It's a twist, I'll admit, but it was jarring. The Justice Guild is dead? But....why? What's the point? It seemed like a twist better suited to a commercial break than a week-long break. I have a feeling that there's more here than meets the eye, and that the commercial for part two only showed scenes from the first half of the ep. The second half is where everything hits the fan.

Anyway, this episode is hilarious, with overtones of serious stuff to come. It feels like the episode would be better appreciated viewed all at once instead of in two parts, so it waits until part 2 to justify the story's worth.

[The Guard]

Lets face it folks when it comes to animaited series Marvel has had bad luck. All of their attempts at animaited shows based on their comics have failed to gain any real following. Some of you might say that X-Men Evolution is a great show with great animation, but In my opinion there is way too much teenage angst in that show. It's like an animaited Dawson's Creek where they have superpowers.

You must not have seen the original X-MEN toon or the SPIDER-MAN one. Those shows came right out of the comics. Even obscure characters got screen time. Heck, The Punisher guest-starred in SPIDER-MAN.

An Avengers show would be awsome. This show would of course be very simular to Justice League . The roll call I would pick for this show would be.

1)Captain America
2)Thor
3)Iron Man
4)Vision
5)She-Hulk
6) Scarlet Witch
7)Either Hawkeye or Quicksilver

There was an Avengers show. It was...terrible.

A Fantastic Four Show would be classic and totally awsome. Bruce Timm's Dr. Doom would probably look great of course.

There was also a GREAT FF cartoon. Actually two of them. The second one was better. And there's been SILVER SURFER, and IRON MAN. Might have been before your time. I believe it was circa 1993.

Marvel has had a number of great shows, using characters like Magneto and Dr. Doom to their full potential. The IRON MAN was one of my favorites.

[BCVM22]

I could just see it now. Mark Hamill as the voice of The Green Goblin.

The irony here? Mark Hamill voiced the Hobgoblin in the mid-90's animated Spider-Man series. ;)

[JTurner954]

Thank you, The Flash.

[Batman49]

What can I say that hasn't already been said. This episode was great. I laughed too many times during this episode. It was a great homage to the comics of the Golden Age, which I wasn't around for but am a big fan of. I can't wait for the next episode as usual.

[Maxie Zeus]

Amazing. Just amazing!

I don't want to comment at length until part 2 airs, but this was so good I have to come in and share in the general exultation.

* Terrific use of the JL in the pre-title sequence. This is what the JL's fights should look like.

* Fluid, exciting fight sequences.

* Celebration of Golden Age that manages to be both satirical and celebratory, and never condescending. Pitch perfect!

* Great dialogue.

* Freakazoid-style villains that are actually both hysterically funny and pretty damn effective.

* Deft mixing in of menace and foreshadowing, giving the retro world an underlying sense of menace and confusion. Things are deeper than the cheery campiness suggests.

* A totally unpredicatable story. I have no idea where it will go from this point. The cliffhanger is a genuine cliffhanger. No "Well next week is when they kick Orm/Felix Faust/Mongul/Aresia's butt and that will be that" predictability.

It's only been a few hours, and already the suspense and yearning for part 2 are KILLING me! :D

[GL2k2]

This is definitely one of the best episodes of the series!!

First of all, we finally get to see the Justice League working together as a fine tuned machine while fighting the giant robot. Definitely a plus. We also got to see Flash's powers at work again since "The Brave and Bold". Also this does explain the time force.

The writer successfully captured the essence of old school comic books with the talk and artwork of the Justice Guild and yes Flash's comment was too true... I did bust a gut. I also like The Streak's comment to John Stewart "You are a good to your people." This wasn't rasict, but necessary they are from the 50's, and this made the characters realistic that rascism exists in their world. Too me, that was the most important line I've heard in the series regarding John's race. This is one of the reasons I gave this episode five stars.

Let's not forget that the Flash's enemies (most of them anyway) appear as the Injustice Guild) which means we won't be getting Captain Cold, Abra Kadabra, Batman's Sports Master, and the Fiddler in the regular series. That's cool by me, they definitely put a dent in the reputation of the regular villians.

I also think it was a good thing to leave the big three out of this episode. And was it just me or was this a combination of "The Gray Ghost" and the first part of "Legends of the Dark Knight".

Although it would have been good to see the real JSA, this wasn't bad at all. Lot's of action, lot's of perfect writing for characterization and realism. This was another standout episode. Here's hoping part 2 stands up part 1.

Kudos!

[Mad Scientist]

This is truly the best episode I've seen so far. Usually, when major studio companies decide to make a cross-over of two or more different heroes/hero groups, they usually do a corny job at it. But Legends was brilliantly made. Sure, the reason for the League to switch universes may have been the usual, lame "because-someone-did-a-normal-activity-something-weird-happened-as-a-result" scenario, but hey, you've GOTTA have a reason, you know. :) And I was surprised by the ending. It left me shocked. :eek:

[CadaverousEyes]

Proper teamwork, proper Superman, loads of humor, (heh heh.. aluminum) unlikely events happening on purpose, a cliffhanger ending that can go anywhere... looks like we have an unmitigated success!

CN also did things right this time, by waiting until the end to show the previews for the next episode. I would have thrown things at the screen if they had ruined the impact of ending.

[DerekPowers]

can someone explain the ring not working on aluminum joke, i dont get it. :confused:

other than that, this ep was very good, and very funny. wow, thats 5 awesome eps in a row, jl has seriously made huge improvements.

i loved the hg thing and the cookies, and the gl and "your a credit to your people" and all the campiness.

a few minor complaints though....why didnt we see luthor at the begining?? i mean, it was supose to be luthor, right? so why did they play it like it was a mystery villian? unless he's in part 2, i think it was sort of strange to do that.

also, i wasnt sure why they made the JGA comic book characters. what was the point? it would have worked exactly the same if gl hadnt mentioned they were comic characters. although maybe they did that to drive the point of a comic book parody home to viewers who might not be fully aware.

anyway, great ep, the ending was very disturbing and a bit of a shocker, and i cant wait for part 2!!!

[Bud 'n Lou]

Originally posted by Cere
And also, a few bad points. The issue of the woman's place is brought up with Black Siren assuming the once-typical woman's role. However, nothing is done with it. The episode brings up the topic but does not comment.

I think it did comment on it, through Hawkgirl's objections. They never outright said, "Hey, sexism is wrong," but they shouldn't have to. In fact, I'd feel as though I were being spoken down to if they had. We're smart enough to draw our own conclusions.

[RONDC20]

Yes I do know about most of the attempts that Marvel has made at Animation.

Their X-Men show from the Mid 90's was a solid one with good stories, but the animation was terrible and it died before it could gain any real power.

The Spider-Man show from the Mid 90's was also a very good show. I would say that it is the best out of all the shows that they have attempted, but still not as good as anything Bruce Timm has done.


And I do remmember that recent Avengers show. GOD!!! That was just bad. It had none of the classic team members. My Avengers idea is different it has classic team mates.

If your talking about the 60's FF toon then you have got to be kidding, but I do remmember one of them in the 1990's and I also vaguely remmember an Iron Man show and I recently remmember a Silver Surfer toon on Fox Kids. In fact I think most of these shows were on Fox Kids. My point is that I hardly remmember any of these shows and most of them get canned before they can have a chance to be any good. I think that Bruce Timm could change that. He's a big name among Animation and Comic fans already and I truly bealive he would do wonders with these shows if given the chance.

Does Marvel not know how to handle their comics turning into animation. They seem to fail almost every time. Most of the Animation fo these shows was just cheap and bad looking . Marvel needs to do something drastic to have a succsesfull animaited show and I do bealive that Bruce Timm would be the man for the job.

I do know that there is going to be a Spider-man Animaited show on MTV, but Im kind of sceptical on how thats gonna be like. All that God awfull rock music scoring the show. It's gonna be like Batman Beyond all over again UGH!!!

Ronald C

[Revelator]

This is the first Justice League episode I've gotten genuinely excited about. The series has had a totally consistent level of quality but with no real ups or downs. I'd say this episode was the best so far, and a genuinely giddy up.
Without wishing to deny Bruce Timm anything, we ought to remember that he takes care of the mainly visual aspects. Whether an episode of JL is good or bad depends entirely upon the writer. That's because no matter who writes the show, it will probably be well directed, animated and produced. But without a good writer the whole thing would be empty.



Originally posted by SirLemming
"[B]There was a GREAT sense of humor about this episode. And a lot of it was subtle, too. My favorite humor had to do with the interaction between Green Lantern and The Streak. I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this one right, but I think it might be what the writers intended, and it's Simpsons-level stuff. "

Not surprising if one realizes that the writer, Andrew Kresiberg, helped write an episode of The Simpons. (Beyond the facts that he wrote the Odyssey segment of "Tales from the Public Domain" [the funniest one] and is a writer for the upcoming adult swim series Mission Hill I know nothing about him.)

Lots of people have used the adjective "corny" to describe this episode, which is probably the wrong word. "Legends" is actually a witty piss-take on those corny old comic books, and has a field day in satirically mocking them. You didn't need to know who exactly was being parodied, you just needed to be familiar with how Golden-age comics work. I gasped with grateful wonder when the busload of nuns went careening towards the TNT truck--surely the wackiest thing the show has done yet.


"When The Streak said 'You fight well. You're a credit to your people.' And then GL sighed. Am I the only one who interpreted that as a racial thing? I thought that was HILARIOUS."

It was definitely a racial thing. I was surprised at how subtly the point was made. With just one old-fashioned comment Kreisberg managed to suggest a huge deal about the undersides of the supposedly idyllic world that spawned golden age comics. Lesser writers would have awkwardly tried introducing the issue with reams of extended dialogue. But one line and Green Lantern's sigh say everything. I certainly hope the JL producers use their wits and rehire Kresiberg for more episodes. He'd be a needed improvement--Stan Berkowitz seems to be leaning heavily on cliches nowadays, and I haven't trusted Rich Fogel ever since he messed up Tim Drake's orgin story

[Batman49]

From DerekPowers

can someone explain the ring not working on aluminum joke, i dont get it.

That joke was in reference to Alan Scott's, the original Green Lantern and the model for the Green Gaurdsmen, weakness to wood. They modified it for the Green Gaurdsmen to be aluminum instead of wood. Hope that helps you "get" the joke.

[Lucho]

"can someone explain the ring not working on aluminum joke, i dont get it?"


The ersatz Green Lantern “Green Guardsman” parodies Alan Scott, the original who's ring was powerless against wood, it was his kryptonite.

[The Green Hornet]

can someone explain the ring not working on aluminum joke, i dont get it.

Alan Scott (the FIRST Green Lantern) had a ring that possessed a weakness to wood-- it couldnt affect it at all. As Green Guardsman is a play off of Alan, the weaknes was tweaked a bit :) Aluminum is just sorta funny



other than that, this ep was very good, and very funny. wow, thats 5 awesome eps in a row, jl has seriously made huge improvements.

I agree!



i loved the hg thing and the cookies, and the gl and "your a credit to your people" and all the campiness.

a few minor complaints though....why didnt we see luthor at the begining?? i mean, it was supose to be luthor, right? so why did they play it like it was a mystery villian? unless he's in part 2, i think it was sort of strange to do that.

Maybe it has something to do with I4A? Also maybe it does have something to do with part two...



also, i wasnt sure why they made the JGA comic book characters. what was the point? it would have worked exactly the same if gl hadnt mentioned they were comic characters. although maybe they did that to drive the point of a comic book parody home to viewers who might not be fully aware.

ahh here is another case where lack of Golden-Silver age knowledge can hurt the average viewer:

Barry Allen (the 2nd flash) grew up reading comic books about the JSA and his hero, Jay Garrick, the ORIGINAL Flash. When he gained his powers, he remembered Jay and donned his costume/mantle.

Wally initated the time/dimension vortex in almost the exact same way that Barry managed to go to the Earth with the JSA. Furthermore, Tom Turbine's explanation of quantum vibrations was word for word the explanation behind the existance of other "earths" and the way that the Cosmic Treadmill worked!

in short, its a direct homage to the Barry/Jay connection



anyway, great ep, the ending was very disturbing and a bit of a shocker, and i cant wait for part 2!!!

Agreed!

I cannot WAIT for part two

I hope I answered your questions!

[Barb Gordon]

I think it's safe to say that if there wasn't an episode of Justice League that people had yet to like, tonight changed that. Legends was just simply kick ass. From the reference to Batman and Robin with the bad puns and putting a kid in danger, to the milk and cookies, to the nuns in a bus about to ram into a runaway truck with TNT written on it. It was all so incredibly amusing. There were so many references, jokes, and hidden humour, that it was almost dizzying. I loved the reaction from Hawkgirl when Black Siren kept asking her to go bake things with her, and Green Lantern's look when Streak said the "your people" line. I cannot wait for the second part of this. Speaking of which, maybe because I was enjoying it so much, but tonight's episode just seemed to end way too fast!

Barb^-^

[Terminatah]

Maxie brings up a good point. The mystery surrounding part 2 of Legends is definitely better than the predictability of previous episode cliffhangers.

My favorite part of this episode was the societal commentary comparing the 50's era lifestyle with our own.

- The storefront windows advertise prices before inflation.
- John Stewart is a superhero in our world, yet The Streak still makes light of his race. Black Siren automatically takes care of all homemaking duties. The throwbacks are fascinating not because the characters were being inappropriate or chauvanistic, but because this was the standard at the time. Back when women first got into professional sports, the announcer would spout out comments like, "She must've learned to throw like that while tossing dishes in the kitchen," and it was perfectly normal.
- Innocent children are thrust into violent situations involving insane criminals. Crimefighting and villainy take on a ridiculous nature that trivializes the violence involved. I was constantly reminded of the Adam West days of Batman, when the writers purposely exaggerated symbols of integrity (The milk and cookies snack at JGA headquarters was similar to Batman refusing alcohol and asking for milk; the busload of nuns was similar to Batman running into nuns, babies, and ducks while trying to get rid of a bomb, etc).
- The Justice League monitors the entire planet from space. The Justice Guild is located in and expressly affiliated with America. True to their innocent mindset, they don't see this ethnocentric attitude as discriminatory.

The implied commentary was reminiscent of Back To The Future, which made many of the same points about our development as a society.

Also, I missed the very beginning and came in when Superman and Batman were taking out the giant robot. Can anyone tell me what I missed and where the robot came from?

-Terminatah

[Webryder]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DerekPowers
[B]can someone explain the ring not working on aluminum joke, i dont get it. :confused:

Yeah Derek it was supposed to be a spoof of the Green Lanterns ring in general, you know, that it's an all-powerful weapon capable of all these amazing and wonderful things only limited by the barers will ........

and it's vulnerable to yellow ......get it? :)

This whole ep was really a spoof on all superhero teams in general (Golden Age JSA in particular) and how all the things that made them so great back in there hayday we can find so ridiculously humorous and sometimes obsurd but then again most of the modern teams today are still being based off of those early archetypes and are very capable if not careful of being just as corny

[Squall]

Originally posted by Clayface
Well, guess I'm one of the few that didn't find this episode very interesting. I don't know why, but this episode really did nothing for me. I didn't laugh at all while watching it - maybe I was just in the wrong mood, or maybe the whole retro thing just didn't appeal to me, but I really didn't find it entertaining at all. The characters were OK, I guess, but, since I'm not familiar with the characters they were parodying, I just didn't care about them, or get a thrill from seeing them.

"Clayface," I agree. I love Dini, Timm & Co.'s shows because they're supposed to get away from this campiness! I thought I was watching an episode of "Superfriends." :rolleyes:

But I'm glad most everyone else loved it. :D

[Bleu Unicorn]

After reading some more of the reviews -- I just havd to say two more things -- I'm in complete and total agreement with both Barb and Maxie Zeus. One, the episode just seemed to end too fast -- but I think that was just because I actually liked this one so much. And two, for once, even CN's promos didn't make me any clearer on what's going to happen next week. I like that! I hate having an episode be so predictable that watching the second half is almost unimportant. JL should be like this every week!

Interestingly enough, it's been hours since the show aired, and I still get a chuckle thinking about some of the scenes!

-- Uni

[William C. Maune]

[indent]Great episode! Pretty much all I would have to say has been said already, except: Was that kid voiced by Bruce Timm? He looked similar to the guy from "Beware the Grey Ghost" and kind of sounded the same also. It has been awhile since I saw that episode though so my mind could be playing tricks on me. Also, while I couldn't catch much as they always go by pretty quickly, something caught my eye in the credits on the voices page. I think the kid's voice (I forget his name) was listed as "as himself".

[Doc Rock]

Originally posted by DerekPowers
can someone explain the ring not working on aluminum joke, i dont get it. :confused:

See all previous Golden-Age/Alan Scott references...


Originally posted by DerekPowers
a few minor complaints though....why didnt we see luthor at the begining?? i mean, it was supose to be luthor, right? so why did they play it like it was a mystery villian? unless he's in part 2, i think it was sort of strange to do that.

I kinda liked that aspect. As if certain individuals(like Luthor) may be behind the scenes with threats that the JL are handling, without them even knowing who's behind them...


Originally posted by DerekPowers
also, i wasnt sure why they made the JGA comic book characters. what was the point? it would have worked exactly the same if gl hadnt mentioned they were comic characters. although maybe they did that to drive the point of a comic book parody home to viewers who might not be fully aware.

Actually, I think this was a bone tossed to all the fanboys out there because the whole comic-book characters/vibrational wavelength/"infinite earths" was undiluted, verbatim DC continuity pre-Crisis. Makes me feel all warm and toasty!! :D

<<<Doc Rock>>>

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


Originally posted by AFXanatos
[B]Was that kid voiced by Bruce Timm? He looked similar to the guy from "Beware the Grey Ghost" and kind of sounded the same also.

If I remember correctly, Jay the Teen Wonder was voiced by Neil Patrick Harris, aka Dougie Howser M.D. Another inspired bit of casting if my memory is right.

-- Ed/Ace

[Joe Wagner]

Personally I think this is probably right up there with "The Enemy Below" and "Brave and the Bold" as the best JL episodes so far. I really enjoyed seeing Superman do something than get blasted before a battle sequence :D The JGA was just beyond cool and the Streaks constant barrages of "Drink your Milk" and "Stay in School" was just great. Overall I kept laughing through out the entire episode and had to give it five stars. If more was an option this ep would have gotten those too. Eagerly looking forward to part two.

-Joe!

[WonderRaver]

I liked this episode. It's not my favortie so far, but I still enjoyed it.

I must admit though, that there were way too many subtle "hints" for comic book readers. Some friends of mine who had come over to watch the show had to ask a lot of questions to understand most of the stuff that was going on. They would laugh at some of the lines, but there were a bunch that only I laughed at (like the aluminium comment).

My friends said they were not expecting a campy episode, when all of the other eps were more serious in tone. They were also very disappointed that half of the camp was over their heads.

This may have been an episode only for comic fans, the rest of the JL viewers might have been left out in the cold.

-Matt

[Sevenfeet]

OK, my two cents:

This episode was a scream for anyone who either grew up on or collected silver or golden age comics. But I can understand the complaints of some of you "youngins" who grew up in the post Batman movie days. You probably wouldn't get half the jokes without reference. I keep pausing the TiVo after every major joke to explain it to my wife.

First fight scene: killer. My theory on why Batman was needed at the end to take out the robot is that although Superman has heat vision, it is still a ray that can be reflected. Batman on the other hand is the only Justice Leaguer who regularly carries high explosives on him :D The fact that the episode began with GL being down instantly highlighted the danger of the situation.

The JGA: Timm and company must have had a hoot writing this. Although I still question why that DC didn't want the real characters used, it doesnt really matter much since they game up with this group. Unlike Flash, I did bust a gut at the "Justice Guild Roll Call!" The "Junior Justice Guild Member" concept was straight out of 40's Snapper Carr, or 70's Superfriends.

Tom Turbine: Very Fleischer Superman, right down to the eyes. Whoever pointed that out was dead on.

Catman: Its probably good that Batman wasn't brought back with them since Batman would have probably killed this guy. :D Question: Why wasn't Adam West cast for this voice? He's likely available and Cartoon Network has used him recently.

Green Guardsman: Not only did we get to see him use his power ring to make shapes, but you knew the writers' tongue was firmly planted in their cheek when we tried to crush GL with an anvil, the oldest cartoon gag in the book.

The Streak: Classic Silver Age Flash. But his comment about GL being a "credit to his people" took me by surprise too. As an Ivy-league educated African-American in my 30's, I can say I've heard people say this (although not in recent years). It's true that white people used to make this "back-handed compliment" to black people they liked or were impressed with. During the show, I was commenting to my wife about how "white" that Seabord City was, almost straight out of the movie "Pleasantville". My wife, who is white, nearly lost it when she heard that line.
But it was *so* appropiate for this episode.

Black Siren: Not only was she marginalized to "getting milk and cookies", but like many female superheroines of the 40's, 50's and 60's, she didn't do much except get in peril so that her male counterparts could rescue her. Remember the way Sue Richards was originally cast in the early Fantastic Four? She didn't do much but turn invisible and try not to get captured by Dr. Doom. Like "The Invisible Girl", Black Siren appeared to have no offensive capability whatsoever.

The Villians: Only in this episode would a villian like the Musicman drive something hokey like a clarinet for a getaway vehicle. And only in a cartoon could the original Wright flyer be portrayed as actually swift and manueverable! In any other episode, I would have said "Oh right! That's realistic!" But in this episode, all bets are off and I don't have to care about such things.

Sevenfeet

[Bird Boy]

well, I watched it before I went to bed (good ol' VCR), and I must say, I wished it never ended.

When the ending DID come, my mouth hung open and then I cursed a couple times, saying to myself "it can't end like that!", but then they showed the preview for next week and I was OK after...

as for the episode...holy crap! This series is getting better and better! And I seriously mean that.

Since 6 pages worth of this ep have already been said, I'm sure someone has said exactly what I wanted to say, so I'll just end this post here... ;)

-BB

[RJLundeen]

First, I thought it was one of the best shows so far. Very very well done all the way around. There was loving attention lavished on all these Golden age heroes. The interplay between Hawkgirl and the team regarding baking cookies was priceless! I do love the clever dialogue, it really pits character against character nicely. So many nice and interesting touches. The Streaks' comment to GL about his "race", etc. Makes me even more anxious for the much anticipated "Injustice for All". Second, can we get a reviewer who knows something about comics in general? It was very evident that this kid is too young to know what exactly he's reviewing. If the powers that be would like to replace him with me on this particular one, I'd be honored. --Rick

[stwasm]

Originally posted by Bud 'n Lou


Yeah, that's what I liked best. I can't predict what's gonna happen in part two, (except that the league will find their way home, of course) and with most of the past episodes, it was a little easier to figure out how it was going to end. Good mystery so far. I hope part two isn't going to be disappointing.
Some of the dialogue was cheesy, but MOST of the time, it was meant to be. It had plenty of funny moments too.
My biggest gripe is the way they were transported. I dunno, I thought they coulda come up with something a little better. I mean, what's to stop Flash from going into another dimension EVERY time he runs at super speed?

But, remember, it was a combination of the explosion and Flash's super speed. If you remember back to the 1990 series, a similar effect happened when a heat-seeking missile exploded behind the Flash, transporting him ten years into the future.

[Apache Chief]

Everything, has been said already, so I'll just say I enjoyed it.

My favorite part was the robot fight at the beginning.

Did Black Siren use any powers, or do anything for that amtter?

The bus load of nuns was too funny.

I'm so glad our Green Lantern does not use ring constructs. Giant catcher's mitts and what not are just too silly.

Hope you all enjoy part 2 because that will be our last new episode for a long, long time.

[RockyMtnBri]

I was actually surprised and happy that the Streak did make the comment to GL and brought the "whitewashing" out. I could tell they were in a 50s type of world, and as we know from TV no black people existed then. ;)

I really didn't expect that anything would be made of that fact (not to downplay the gender-bashing as well), and the fact that GL didn't say anything is proof of his character.

On a lighter note, I thought the episode was fantastic, from Luthor and "Ultron" (sorry, I don't follow Neon Genesis), to Tom Turbine's explanation of multiple universes. I wonder why he chose the symbols he did when he drew the diagram on the board - any ideas?

The dialogue was period - the camp, the jokes, and Flash playing off the villains was classic. Did you notice who did the voices of the Guild and the villains? William Katt (a.k.a. The Greatest American Hero), Michael (Lenny) McKean, and others really did a great job.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Clayface
The characters were ok, I guess, but, since i'm not familiar with the characters they were parodying, I just didn't care about them, or get a thrill from seeing them.

Personally, I felt I knew too much about the characters they were parodying for it to be fun to me. It's like some drunk guy in a bar ridiculing your best friend. I dunno, maybe I'm too sensitive to this sort of thing.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by RockyMtnBri
Tom Turbine's explanation of multiple universes. I wonder why he chose the symbols he did when he drew the diagram on the board - any ideas?


All I could think of was the Flux Capacitor from Back to the Future.


Originally posted by Sevenfeet
The Villians: Only in this episode would a villian like the Musicman drive something hokey like a clarinet for a getaway vehicle.

Of course, the "real" version of the Musicmaster (the Fiddler) drove a car shaped like a violin.

[JTurner954]

I knew absolutely nothing about these heros from the Golden Age and it didn't affect my enjoyment of the episode at all. I remember seeing drawings of these characters, but I never followed the stories. Therefore, you defintely do not need to read Golden Age comics to understand the campiness of past comic characters.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by GL2k2
Let's not forget that the Flash's enemies (most of them anyway) appear as the Injustice Guild) which means we won't be getting Captain Cold, Abra Kadabra, Batman's Sports Master, and the Fiddler in the regular series.

Dr. Blizzard = Icicle (Alan Scott Green Lantern foe) not Capt Cold. Didn't Wonder Woman have a similarly named foe, something like Minister Blizzard?

Sportsmaster is a Wildcat foe, iirc.

The wizard character is the Wizard, not Abra Kadabra.

Oh, and the Fiddler is only a Golden Age Flash foe, not a Modern Age Flash foe.

So, don't worry, Flash has plenty of foes left.

[RockyMtnBri]

All I could think of was the Flux Capacitor from Back to the Future.

I would've never thought of that! 1.21 GIGAWATTS!!!!!!! Good call. I should've paused my TiVo and written down what the symbols were - I know one was a chain.

[FLIPMODE]

This Ep was Pretty good.

I can't believe they allowed some of the material, but it still worked.

But I will give it a lower mark, because of these fake character names. This basically means we'll never see the Real JSA on this show, because there's no need to make 2 episodes like these.
I like the show, but I think instead of going ahead with this Idea that DC did not approve of for the JSA, they should have scrapped it, and made a Better ep where the JSA could get there shine, and Be Respected.

[Justice League 2000]

hello friends

this episode was very good best ever when the JGA came and they thought that the justice league were villains. :)
in first part when batman throw his batrang at the robot and lex was inside the robot. I can wait for part 2. :)

[Bud 'n Lou]

Originally posted by JTurner954
I knew absolutely nothing about these heros from the Golden Age and it didn't affect my enjoyment of the episode at all. I remember seeing drawings of these characters, but I never followed the stories. Therefore, you defintely do not need to read Golden Age comics to understand the campiness of past comic characters.

I agree. I have a limited amount of knowledge of these characters, and I was still able to pick up on most of the jokes. I saw it more as a satire of society in that time.
And I agree with Apache Chief about GL's constructs. I'm now GLAD he doesn't make weird shapes with his ring. It would be far too cheesy. I can appreciate the way he uses his powers now.
I also agree with everyone who said the episode ended too soon. And for once, it wasn't because of awkward pacing! This episode moved along quite nicely, and the reason I feel it was over too soon was because it was an enjoyable story.
I've re-watched this episode a few times already, and I have to say I like it more with each viewing. It's my favorite so far. By far. I just hope part two lives up to the first part.

[Maxie Zeus]

Like JTurner954 I really don't know Golden Age at all, except thru the basic tone and style that I find in the compilations of Batman comics. So I recognized the satirical tone but knew nothing about the characters they were satirizing. And I still thought it was hysterical.

Maybe it had lots of stuff for the Golden Age cognescenti, but you don't need a degree in the stuff to get a huge pleasure jolt from "Legends."



Tom Turbine: Very Fleischer Superman, right down to the eyes. Whoever pointed that out was dead on.


I particularly liked the design on this guy. Though for my part, I kept thinking of the illustrations by William Joyce (his "The Leaf Men" and "Santa Calls," particularly).

The more I think of it, the more I'm impressed with the amount of texture to the ep. With the satire and the underlying mystery you have something more than just a goof-fest. The pre-title battle is a wonderful anticipation of what's to come. I mean, the JL vs. Monster Robot is exactly the kind of thing most of us would cringe to contemplate (so "Superfriends"). And yet here they totally pull it off. Since that's the kind of danger the JGA would seem to constantly face, to see that kind of fight presented in all its dark menace works really well. It tells us there is a lot of similarity between the universe of the JL and the JGA, while making clear how much difference there is in tone.

[The Green Hornet]

Originally posted by Squall
"Clayface," I agree. I love Dini, Timm & Co.'s shows because they're supposed to get away from this campiness! I thought I was watching an episode of "Superfriends."



If you thought this episode was campy and you felt like you were watching Superfriends, then you're saying this episode accomplished it's intention and you're admitting that it was a very well done episode

the whole POINT to this was to show the golden age

no offense but i dont see how you can claim to like JL but reject their Golden origins :) it would be one thing if ALL of JL was like this-- but its not. It was one episode. One FANTASTICALLY done episode. I hope you agree :)

[JckOfSpds]

Yes I have to concur with the Green Hornet - the episode's campiness is entirely intentional. I think this difference in perspective though may be generational (I know that I grew up reading and watching the campy comics and cartoons on TV that had a very similar feel to this JL episode). Basically, growing up with this sort of stuff, it was like you could just see the old stuff in your head and appreciate just how outlandish it was when held against the current JL cartoon (as was done expertly with Streak's comment to John Stewart and the Green Lantern's subsequent reaction). I feel that the writing crew paid homage (as well as deftly poked fun at) this period through satire in this episode.

Definitely ranking right up there with "The Brave and The Bold" for me as favorite episode. I know that the campiness may not appeal to everyone, but I likewise do not think its bad writing on the designers' part since this episode so well imitated and poked fun at this original genre. 4.5 stars.

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

but i think Injustice for All will be better?

[The Green Hornet]

but i think Injustice for All will be better?

you havent seen the episode, but you already proclaim another episode you havent seen to be better?

[The Mad Hatter]

D'oh! Maxie beat me to the punch with the comment that the awesome robot fight at the beginning has the same over-the-top quality shared by the golden age books.

But I think I've got something new... our good 'ole wacky Flash seemed to really get into the golden age mood, and was soon spouting witticisms with the best of 'em.

But the above comments were right... the ep managed to toe the line between parody and homage perfectly, while still having enough of a serious plot to keep things vastly interesting.

A wonderful change of pace for our team, and probably the best episode so far. It was the nuns that clinched it for me.

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

it just sounds a lot cooler than Legends

[The Green Hornet]

sounding and being are two different things

since seeing is beliving, go watch legends and then come back and tell me its not as good as I4A is gonna be-- ill accept it then

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

anyway from the way i see WW wasn't in this episode?

[Terminatah]

Originally posted by Terminatah
Maxie brings up a good point. The mystery surrounding part 2 of Legends is definitely better than the predictability of previous episode cliffhangers.

My favorite part of this episode was the societal commentary comparing the 50's era lifestyle with our own.

- The storefront windows advertise prices before inflation.
- John Stewart is a superhero in our world, yet The Streak still makes light of his race. Black Siren automatically takes care of all homemaking duties. The throwbacks are fascinating not because the characters were being inappropriate or chauvanistic, but because this was the standard at the time. Back when women first got into professional sports, the announcer would spout out comments like, "She must've learned to throw like that while tossing dishes in the kitchen," and it was perfectly normal.
- Innocent children are thrust into violent situations involving insane criminals. Crimefighting and villainy take on a ridiculous nature that trivializes the violence involved. I was constantly reminded of the Adam West days of Batman, when the writers purposely exaggerated symbols of integrity (The milk and cookies snack at JGA headquarters was similar to Batman refusing alcohol and asking for milk; the busload of nuns was similar to Batman running into nuns, babies, and ducks while trying to get rid of a bomb, etc).
- The Justice League monitors the entire planet from space. The Justice Guild is located in and expressly affiliated with America. True to their innocent mindset, they don't see this ethnocentric attitude as discriminatory.

The implied commentary was reminiscent of Back To The Future, which made many of the same points about our development as a society.

Also, I missed the very beginning and came in when Superman and Batman were taking out the giant robot. Can anyone tell me what I missed and where the robot came from?

-Terminatah I didn't see it either, so I can't help you there. Can someone else pick this one up? I'd like to know too.

-Terminatah

[Borg4of3]

Originally posted by Terminatah

I didn't see it either, so I can't help you there. Can someone else pick this one up? I'd like to know too.

-Terminatah

LOL! Well Terminatah and Terminatah, you guyz didn't miss much. The episode opened with a bunch of civilians running off and GL falling to the ground. The battle against Luthor's monster robot, which he was controlling remotely from a ship somewhere on the ocean, was already in full swing. Hawkgirl was the first Leaguer to appear, and stopped the Eva 02 from crushing GL's comotose body. Soon, J'onn and Superman came in, slamming the monster with their combined strength, sending it staggering. With its guard down, Flash sped in, taking out bolts and nuts and generally taking down its armor plating piece by piece. We got a brief smile from Luthor as he sent Hawkgirl and J'onn flying into a wall with an efforless punch.

At that point, with J'onn, Hawkgirl, and GL down, Superman and Batman did their team-up that finished the monster off.

And now you know the rest of the story.

[Bud 'n Lou]

Well, it takes place in Metropolis...We see the league fighting this big green and purple robot. Then Hawkgirl cheeses, "Who would create such a monstrosity?" And then we cut to a shot of the ocean, with an expensive looking boat on it. And inside is a man who is controlling the giant robot via some kinda VR-looking device. Many people have concluded it was Lex, but we don't see his whole face, just the lower part, plus, it's kinda dark. They do look like his lips, though, and the green and purple colors used seem to support the claim. Plus, it would be a good way to introduce Lex to the show. Anyway, the robot immediately takes out GL, and soon, Hawkgirl and J'onn also go down (all three landing in close proximity). Then Superman tears open a hole in the robot's back and instructs Batman to throw in one of his special batarangs, which he does. It causes the robot to short-circuit (we also get a shot of "possibly, probably Lex" getting shocked too from his VR console...thingie). Anyway, the robot falls, and is about to crush Hawkgirl, GL and J'onn, when Flash runs around them at super-speed to create a whirlwind (I guess) that would protect them from getting crushed, but he winds up making them all disappear, and then we see Bats and Supes just...standing there and looking at the crater left behind. And I don't think Batman spoke once during the entire scene. So there ya go. :0)

[Terminatah]

Thanks guys, very nice descriptions. I feel like I was right there in your living rooms.

-Terminatah

[scarface_74]

Fox's Spiderman cartoon was horrible! It was devoid of any action. It was about at the level of Superfriends as far as action was concerned. I never saw Spidey throw one punch the whole run.

Silver Surfer was horrible too. Xmen was also watered down by Fox. Just imagine how good Xmen could have been if had the leeway that Batman or STAS had on WB?

[The Green Hornet]

Fox's Spiderman cartoon was horrible! It was devoid of any action. It was about at the level of Superfriends as far as action was concerned. I never saw Spidey throw one punch the whole run.


blashphemy

i LOVED the spider-man cartoon-- Silver Surfer too

Spiderman was AWESOME-- i dont know exactly waht it was, but i loved love loved it

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by The Green Hornet



blashphemy

i LOVED the spider-man cartoon-- Silver Surfer too

Spiderman was AWESOME-- i dont know exactly waht it was, but i loved love loved it
he threw some punches. thiss show was great. i agree with GH.

[SirLemming]

Oh yeah, I loved that "my ring doesn't work on aluminum" line. With classic superheroes, there's always some weakness that seems to pop up whenever it suits the storyline -- that satire was just perfect!

[JohnStewart-GL]

i love John's reaction to the "Your a credit to your people,son" line. He knew he didn't mean any harm he was just ignorant to that.

[MeAmBizzaro]

I must have watched this episode 7 times already since it's first airing on Sunday. And each time, i feel like that kid Ray Thompson watching his heroes in action.

I like the token Irish sergeant, delivering the IG's msg to the heroes. One person i thought they should've included in the Injustice Guild was the Harlequin's counterpart.

[MattL.]

Intresting that Superman and Batman were left behind in this adventure considering they were the heroes who started it all in comics *and* are the first two super/costumed heroes of the TAS Universe.

[Brainiac]

WOW! WHAT A FANTASTIC EPISODE! To be quite honest, I wasn't really looking forward to this episode, but I found myself loving it more and more every time I've watched it (totalling 4 now...) As mentioned already, the campiness and spoofing of nearly everything was great...the bad puns and witty banter was great. I especially loved the allusion to the old '60's Batman show, with Catman and the young boy. Also, it was great seeing the police chief, much like Gordon's Chief O' Harra in the original show...Overall, I LOVED IT! And I can't wait to see the second part! 5 well-deserved stars!

[Cere]

Originally posted by scarface_74
Fox's Spiderman cartoon was horrible! It was devoid of any action. It was about at the level of Superfriends as far as action was concerned. I never saw Spidey throw one punch the whole run.

Silver Surfer was horrible too. Xmen was also watered down by Fox. Just imagine how good Xmen could have been if had the leeway that Batman or STAS had on WB?
A little off topic, but I want to comment. I like the Spider-Man series, but I agree that the Silver Surfer was bad. It seemed like his only solution to a problem was to shoot it.

And, whoever said it, a knowledge of that one Green Lantern's weakness to wood was not necessary to get the aluminum joke. My brother and I laughed outloud at the sheer ridiculousness of a powerful ring having no effect on a material!

[CadaverousEyes]

A little late, but here's the definite answer to who was controlling that robot in the beginning, courtesy of Cartoon Network's schedule page:

"Legends"
Part I - Sunday, April 21, 7 p.m.
Part II - Sunday, April 28, 7 p.m.
During a fight with Lex Luthor, the Justice League is blasted into an alternate reality where they meet the Justice Guild of America, a group of old-fashioned comic book heroes whose exploits Green Lantern remembers reading about when he was a kid."

Just so there's no room for argument!

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by Cere

A little off topic, but I want to comment. I like the Spider-Man series, but I agree that the Silver Surfer was bad. It seemed like his only solution to a problem was to shoot it.

And, whoever said it, a knowledge of that one Green Lantern's weakness to wood was not necessary to get the aluminum joke. My brother and I laughed outloud at the sheer ridiculousness of a powerful ring having no effect on a material!

Silver Surfer was incredible - to believe it was bad was to not have watched the show. Personally Silver Surfer ranks up there with Spidey and X-men as my fave Marvel toons and actually went in depth, showing the feelings of Norrin Radd. Not only did he not shot everything that was considered a problem but he always tried to find a peaceful solution to any problem he encountered. It wasn't until he was faced with extreme odds that he used his powers.

I will agree though that the Guardian line was great - but probably not as great as Hawkgirls reaction on her face (a "WHAT?!" kind of expression).

-Joe!

[CarterHall]

Originally posted by MeAmBizzaro
Magnificent! This episode was clever, funny and yet an homage to the true golden age of the JSA. Couple questions:

1. Did anyone else think Batman's role was unecessary? Superman could've finished the job.

2. Does Black Siren have any powers like Black Canary's Canary Cry?

3. Who was the Sportsman supposed to be? I recognize Icicle, Abra Kadabra, and Maestro(?)

4. Anyone catch Vandal Savage's portrait hanging in the Injustice Guild's hideout?

The villains were supposed to be JSA foes:
Sportsmaster,Icicle,The Wizard, and the Fiddler
(I didn't make the last one up either :D)

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

I still haven't figured out what it could be...(I'm referring to the dead JGA) Is this an illusion created by Luthor? Probably not but...any theories?

[The Green Hornet]

Tom Turbine made a special point of mentioning how he is an expert in nuclear physics

and in Jonn's vision, it looks like a nuclear device went off in Seaboard City.......

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by The Green Hornet
Tom Turbine made a special point of mentioning how he is an expert in nuclear physics

and in Jonn's vision, it looks like a nuclear device went off in Seaboard City.......

Did anyone else get the feeling that Tom Turbine (very cool character IMO) was the resident Reed Richards of the bunch? The scene where he was showing them his device reminded me of Reeds lab. His device also seemed very similar to the one that was used by Professor Hamilton in "Brave New Metropolis".

-Joe!

[The Green Hornet]

Tom Turbine DOES seem VERY cool

and yeah-- hes the Reed Richards of the group :)

why do i have a GUT feeling that the "energy source" used to power that gateway is gonna be FLASH on a TREADMILL? :)

[RockyMtnBri]

I think we're on a roll, gents!

I was talking to my best friend (over 30 years!) about the episode and we both came to the conclusion that Tom Turbine's machine has to be:

a) the cause of the destruction of the alternate Earth, and
2) the way the JL will get back to Earth, using the Flash's power - I am curious to see if they'll construct the treadmill

I cannot wait until part 2 to see if we're right or wrong - either way, very entertaining!!!!

[Blight]

I was going to post this short review 2 days ago, but I've been really busy with school work.

"Legends" started out good, with that cameo by Lex Luthor, (Too bad he didn't have any lines. Just a few grunts) but started rapidly dropping once the team went back in time. To me this episode was ridiculous and quite boring. It should never have been made in my opinion. I did like the ending, though, which creeped me out.

Part 2 looks to be a tad more interesting. At least, I hope it will be.

Overall, I'd say "Legends" part 1 was even worse than the horrid "Warworld" arc, and that's saying something.

I give this one two stars.

See ya!
Blight

[Manhunter]

Originally posted by Blight
I was going to post this short review 2 days ago, but I've been really busy with school work.

"Legends" started out good, with that cameo by Lex Luthor, (Too bad he didn't have any lines. Just a few grunts) but started rapidly dropping once the team went back in time. To me this episode was ridiculous and quite boring. It should never have been made in my opinion. I did like the ending, though, which creeped me out.

Part 2 looks to be a tad more interesting. At least, I hope it will be.

Overall, I'd say "Legends" part 1 was even worse than the horrid "Warworld" arc, and that's saying something.

I give this one two stars.

See ya!
Blight

Not a real nostalgia buff, are you, Blight?

Well, to each his own. Like I always say:"One man's cup of tea is another man's cup of pee." A bit crude, I know.

[The Green Hornet]

Blight at this point im wondering if you bothered to watch the episode at all

you obviously couldnt give two shakes about the history of comics and heroes in the DC universe

[The Guard]

This is going to sound stupid, but could Tom Turbine be T.O Morrow?

[metaphysician]

I think both the Turbine and Ray theories sound pretty valid. I mean, on one hand, Tom Turbine *definitely* seemed suspicious. I can't put my finger on it, but there was just something not right about him.

OTOH, the entire world seemed like how a comic book world would seem through the mind of a kid, like if Ray Thompson wished it back.

The only other episode that had even near this level of mystery was Brave and Bold, coincidentally, the previous best episode.

[JTurner954]

If that theory is correct, I will be very upset. Isn't there already a thread on speculations for Part 2?? Please don't try to ruin the show for those who want to be surprised.

[Blight]

Originally posted by The Green Hornet
Blight at this point im wondering if you bothered to watch the episode at all

you obviously couldnt give two shakes about the history of comics and heroes in the DC universe

Well, you're right, I'm not familiar with DC's history, but that's because I never bother to read any comics besides the animated ones. I have read a couple mainstream JLA and Batman comics, but I found them all quite boring. I'm strictly a fan of the animated universe. That's probably why I found "Legends" so boring. That's also probably why I never enjoyed that story arc in Spiderman: TAS in which Captain America and a bunch of other boring old heroes guest starred. Of course, that was Marvel, but my point is, I don't really like "Old school" heroes.

See ya!
Blight

[Joe Wagner]

GH - I have the feeling that Flash could be the power source although I'm really hoping that won't be the case and Tom Turbine can create something that will allow him to access other worlds, maybe like a boom tube device.


Originally posted by Blight


Well, you're right, I'm not familiar with DC's history, but that's because I never bother to read any comics besides the animated ones. I have read a couple mainstream JLA and Batman comics, but I found them all quite boring. I'm strictly a fan of the animated universe. That's probably why I found "Legends" so boring. That's also probably why I never enjoyed that story arc in Spiderman: TAS in which Captain America and a bunch of other boring old heroes guest starred. Of course, that was Marvel, but my point is, I don't really like "Old school" heroes.

See ya!
Blight

I'm sad to hear this - a lot of great stuff can be found in these "old school" books and I've found more than one character to be really cool that really isn't seen to much now days. As a history buff I always found some of the WW II comics to fascinating - esp Captain America when he was taking the fight directly to the Nazis (anyone notice that Marvel doesn't call them Nazis anymore? If they do a flashback they are the Razis. Maybe they are scarred of offending all of the Nazis out there????)

-Joe!

[GL2k2]

Well, if anyone doesn't like the "old school" characters, don't watch the season finale "The Savage Time" either. Cause that's when Sgt. Rock and the Blackhawks appear.

[Salvor]

I've just seen it... and I liked it. Not that it was absolutely hilarious. I mean, after what I'd read here, I was expecting the best jokes ever, while it was basically the same types of jokes you usually find in this kind of episode, ie run-of-the-mill corny dialogue. But still, it made me smile at times so that was enough.

Anyway what I liked best was how well the big action scenes ran at the end. Most of the action was surprisingly intense, and the costumed villains did not fall short of my expectations: cheesier than ever :)

Something strikes though... how come the Justice Guild got more character development in one episode than the members of the JL in the entire first season?? I don't know about you guys and I was a lot more excited by the Green Guardsman, Catman and Tom Turbine than by the JL members... weird.

[Borg4of3]

LOL Salvor!

Actually, I don't think the JG got 'that' much character development. We know they're corny, cheesy, and promote the safe consumption of milk and cookies; but what do we really know about the Streak? Or Green Guardsman? Or Catman's relationship/partnership(?) with Black Siren? Or their secret lives? Aside from Tom Turbine's great intellect and their respective powers, what is the real difference between the JG members?

Outside of the action that we usually remember, we have gotten some prettygood character development between the JLers. I mean, you know how completely different John is from Kyle, and why Batman isn't a full timer, and how Diana, Hawkgirl, and J'onn yearn for home. And of course we're all guessing who will end up with who just for the fun of it :rolleyes: :p I think its simply that we already know them so well already that we don't notice those things. Now that's character development :D

[Salvor]

Originally posted by Borg4of3
Outside of the action that we usually remember, we have gotten some prettygood character development between the JLers. I mean, you know how completely different John is from Kyle, and why Batman isn't a full timer, and how Diana, Hawkgirl, and J'onn yearn for home. And of course we're all guessing who will end up with who just for the fun of it :rolleyes: :p I think its simply that we already know them so well already that we don't notice those things. Now that's character development :D
It is character development indeed, but it's often dull and uninteresting. Take Jonn for example: the guy is so boring I couldn't care less for him. Same goes for Wonder Woman: her emotions are rather basic ones, she's deprived of humor, she's *just* a heroin. I just wish these characters could show more vivid AND original feelings/interactions, cause right now, they fundamentally represent some kind of "lifeless" model of virtue/heroism. The only characters that really stand out are GL and the Flash, who have proved to be able to interact well, the former being too wilful and the latter being too careless.

Boy I drifted off-topic there :)

[Blight]

Originally posted by GL2k2
Well, if anyone doesn't like the "old school" characters, don't watch the season finale "The Savage Time" either. Cause that's when Sgt. Rock and the Blackhawks appear.

Just because I don't like the "old school" heroes, it doesn't mean I'm gonna miss the season finale. I mean, it is the season finale after all! Besides, if I enjoy "The Savage Time" I might change my mind about classic heroes. People can change.

See ya!
Blight

[Condiment King]

Man, I have watched and rewatched "Legends" Part I and have to give it the honor of being the #1 Justice League episode. I almost busted a gut during that role call routine. Just kidding. I did bust a gut! :D That was hilarious! They kept going through the LOONNNNGGGG description of that little kid. He is my hero! Just kidding. I voted ***** and think that the culprit will be:

THE JUSTICE GUILD'S JUNIOR JUSTICE GUILDSMEN.

[Borg4of3]

Originally posted by Blight


Just because I don't like the "old school" heroes, it doesn't mean I'm gonna miss the season finale. I mean, it is the season finale after all! Besides, if I enjoy "The Savage Time" I might change my mind about classic heroes. People can change.

On classic heroes - Batman and Superman are as classic as you can get, so its not the oldness or classicissity of the characters that Blight dislikes, but the abundance of the JG's campy-as-heck dialogue. Oh well, to each his own! The JG's campiness makes it easy to love em or hate em; but don't worry - Sgt. Rock and the Blackhawks will most likely be treated with a lot more realism and a lot more respect that everyone should be able to enjoy



Originally posted by Salvor

It is character development indeed, but it's often dull and uninteresting. Take Jonn for example: the guy is so boring I couldn't care less for him. Same goes for Wonder Woman: her emotions are rather basic ones, she's deprived of humor, she's *just* a heroin. I just wish these characters could show more vivid AND original feelings/interactions, cause right now, they fundamentally represent some kind of "lifeless" model of virtue/heroism. The only characters that really stand out are GL and the Flash, who have proved to be able to interact well, the former being too wilful and the latter being too careless.

Boy I drifted off-topic there :)

It is kinda disappointing that Diana has gotten 2 spotlights episodes and we know absolutely nothing more about her, and the minor character mother at the beginning of Paradise Lost showed more emotion than Diana has yet. But Batman's value of life wasn't lost at the end of The Brave and the Bold; Hawkgirl, who is a relative newcomer, is now well defined in all our minds; and as you pointed out GL and Flash are always cool. While there are excuses and reasons for the lack of characerization (one being that there are too many characters at a time), it could stand for some improvement.

[torifel]

Originally posted by Borg4of3
On classic heroes - Batman and Superman are as classic as you can get, so its not the oldness or classicissity of the characters that Blight dislikes, but the abundance of the JG's campy-as-heck dialogue.

I think that's actually probably the reason they left out batman and superman from this episode. they either would shrug off the campiness (batman), or just be unaware of it (superman)... i think the team that actually got transported had that nice mix of disbelief, edge and will utter sarcasm..

still, the best thing of this episode has to be Hawkgirl and Black Siren. "Let's bake cookies while the men discuss"? LOL :D
you just can't get any better than that...

[The Green Hornet]

i could see Superman with them now

Streak: Nothing a tall cold glass of milk wont cure
Superman: Just what I was thinking!

Ray Thompson: When I grow up, I wanna be a crimefighter!

Streak: Well if you eat right--
Superman:-- AND stay in school!

[Borg4of3]

Originally posted by The Green Hornet
i could see Superman with them now

Streak: Nothing a tall cold glass of milk wont cure
Superman: Just what I was thinking!

Ray Thompson: When I grow up, I wanna be a crimefighter!

Streak: Well if you eat right--
Superman:-- AND stay in school!

LOL!

Now I'm really disappointed Superman didn't make it into this episode!

[daedalus222]

Just got through seeing Legends on JL (was in Cali on business last Sunday and unfortunately Cartoon network not in Hotel --that happens way to much) and it was just FANTASTIC!!! Wow! This was a truly great episode. Still think Superman is hit waaaaaaay too much. Even after the big opener --which was very cool (although where was WW) they STILL have to have that dayam UGHHHH when the robot explodes and hits him. I just do not remember that level of lameness from the old Dini-Timm Supes...he got hammered but always got back up and very little UGHHHH can Newbern just try and seem tough for once.

I hope they do get Dini and Loeb and others cuz so far my complaints of Timm still remain although I will admit JL is getting much better. Thought Fury was good (although lame WW catfight at the end and the Artesia anger towards men was a lil too comicbooky-could have been a lil more poignant and believable with better acting) and brave and Bold and now Legends.

Anyways, Legands was absolutely fantastic. I see to some degree why JSA was not in--since the plot was clearly desgined to showcase the classic team versus the new one. I can only imagine since this one was done with equal amounts sarcasm and respect that the DC licensing arm felt that they would have a tougher time palming the respectful classic war-torn heroes of JSA if they were solidifed in people's minds as a bunch of out of date cornballs. That being said maybe one day there will be a direct to video movie that combines the better and more war torn JSA up against this version of the JL. It would be great to see original Flash, original GL and dr. Fate, Spectre, Starman, Atom, Hourman, Dr. Midnite, Black Canary.

What do u guys think?

[Maxie Zeus]

LOL!

That, or Superman might be slightly creeped out by the resemblance.



Ray Thompson: When I grow up, I wanna be a crimefighter!

Streak: Well if you eat right AND stay in school!

Superman (worriedly, to GL): I don't come across like that, do I?

[JohnStewart-GL]

I can't believe no one mention this.
Did anyone besides me notice Flash's concern for Hawkgirl when GG put her in that cage.

[The Green Hornet]

thats because its probably not worth mentioning-- rather nothing should be inferred from it

he opens his eyes after being laid out by Tom Turbine and the first thing he sees is a teammate in a bird cage-- its natural hes gonna want to help her

[Joe Tully]

Actually, I think that it could have been pretty funny to see Batman interact with the JGA. Batman's grim personality would be very out-of-place amongst all of the cheeriness of the JGA. And it would be hilarious to see a Batman/Catman team-up! It would be like modern-day Batman meets Adam West Batman! I'm sure Batman would have some interesting feelings about Catman's logic in some cases.

I can just see Batman getting really confused by some Adam West-style Riddler clue that makes perfect sense to Catman. :p

[murmur]

I just watched the 12:30 showing. I had to skim most of the comments but every time I saw someone say "Was it just me, or..." I said to myself, no it's not just you! The episode was as fantastic as you all say and I appreciated it greatly though I am not at all well-versed in Golden Age comics. Heck, some of the jokes were just shots at the 50's in general.

Note about JL v. Futurama-- There is a reason the JL re-airs on Saturday. And now I can watch part two just one day after part one because Futurama's season just ended. The best things come to those who wait. :p

Note about Batman's tiny role-- I'm not sure whether they should have let Batman have such an arbitrary role but if you're gonna destroy a power source, it makes sense you'd want to stick with a simple piercing weapon as opposed to energy beams. If superman used his heat vision on it, the resulting energy clash might have caused something unpredictable, such as transporting the other heroes into an alternate dimension...er...hehehe... :rolleyes:

[Livewire]

I had no problem with Batman's role, but I just thought that what he did do was unnecessary. However, you make a good point, murmur. Superman's heat- vision might have met with dire results...umm..even more dire results. ;)



I watched it again today, and laughed just as hard as I did when I first watched it. I'm really looking forward to tomorrow. I just have one question..Black Siren is fashioned after Black Canary, right? Well, it looks as if Black Siren has no powers, because all she did was dodge here and there. Does this mean that Black Canary has no special powers? Sorry if this sounds like a silly question :o , but I don't read mainstream comics.

[Bud 'n Lou]

I don't read the mainstream books either, but I think the original Black Canary had a sonic scream power. The current version lost this ability though. I guess Black Siren has the sonic scream though, since she has the word "siren" in her name, but I can only assume. Maybe she'll use it in part 2?

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Livewire
Well, it looks as if Black Siren has no powers, because all she did was dodge here and there. Does this mean that Black Canary has no special powers?


A couple of people have mentioned Black Siren's apparent lack of powers, so I'll suggest an explanation.

In the comics, the Black Canary first appeared in the 1940's. She was a recurring character in Johnny Thunder's strip, and eventually took it over from him. She was a nonpowered superheroine. She eventually joined the Justice Society. Decades later, the Justice League (on Earth-1) met the Justice Society (of Earth-2). After several such meetings, Wonder Woman had to quit the Justice League (since she was going into her mod Emma Peel phase). The Justice League writers knew that they needed a female presence in the Justice League... and they weren't considering Hawkgirl... so they decided to have Black Canary leave her Earth to join the Justice League. Somehow, the journey gave her her sonic scream power that she is known for. She then had a romance with Green Arrow.

However, the writers realized that this was odd: she should be really old, and she always seemed to be younger than Green Arrow. So a retcon was invented: there were two Black Canarys! The first Black Canary's daughter was being brought with her when she journeyed to Earth-1, but due to one thing and another, the original BC ended up dying, but put her mind in her daughter's body.

After Crisis, a new explanation was needed, since there was only one Earth. In the post-Crisis universe, there was a Golden Age Black Canary who joined the JSA... and her daughter who grew up in the normal way (except that prolonged exposure to some of her mother's weird friends gave her a sonic scream power) and joined the JLA.


Much later, BC was mutilated and lost her sonic scream power. She then joined up with Oracle, and began using artificial devices to mimic her old sonic scream. Recently, she regained her power after a bath in Ra's al Ghul's' Lazarus Pit.

Now can you see a reason for Black Siren to have no powers if she is based on the Justice Society version of the Black Canary? The JSA version of BC had no powers, so it would make sense for Black Siren to have no powers.

[Salvor]

Originally posted by Bud 'n Lou
[B]I don't read the mainstream books either, but I think the original Black Canary had a sonic scream power. The current version lost this ability though.[B]
Are you sure she lost it? I'm pretty sure she used it in the latest GA ish.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Salvor

Are you sure she lost it? I'm pretty sure she used it in the latest GA ish.

Black Canary recently got the "sonic cry" back. She had lost it for awhile. I beleive she took a dip in a "lazarus pit" and addition to getting slightly younger she also received her superpowers again.

Speaking of Green Arrow thats one great series Kevin Smith is writing. If nobodys read it just look threw it and check out the diaolog and character representation.Its a nice book.

[Bob...SpongeBob]

'sup, Tman? I can't wait for the ep. only 3 1/2 hours to go! Based on the previews, I'd say this is going to be another cool ep. Kudos to JL!

[Calico]

Ok, who else is crying?

"We died once trying to save this world, we can do it again."

That's a true hero.

What else is there to say. Great episode.

[d4rkkn1ght]

Cool episode. Just wondering, who is Gardener F. Fox?

[Borg4of3]

You said it perfectly Calico! Awesome episode - awesome enemy - very touching ending. 5 stars from me!

[Clayface]

My reaction? "what the heck was that?"

Eh. I didn't care for the first part of this story arc, and the second one didn't impress me either. The big-headed freak was kinda lame.

[The Green Hornet]

oh my......

without a doubt the best episode-arc of JL ever.

An incredibly moving story, when i saw that newspaper headline that the JGA died in a NUCLEAR battle, and when Streak saluted goodbye and we saw the JGA with the golden light behind them...like a fading memory that can't remain. Time gone by that can never come again. Very sad.

in their honor

LET JUSTICE PREVAIL!!!!!!

[TheHuntressDiana]

Even though I've loved the WW episodes...this 2nd part of "Legends" was great.

No dry eyes here...I'm not ashamed to admit it.

And for my own sanity, I'm going to say this:

Don't even try and make something out of GL & HG! He was depressed (understandably so) and she tried to comfort him. If she hadn't done it, I think Diana would've done it. "Comforting" someone isn't something that most men do easily...and women happen (in my opinion, since I am one) to provide comfort more easily and without a second thought (no masculinity issues there).

Okay...that's enough for me on that...but I had to get it out.

[Karkull]

Originally posted by Clayface
The big-headed freak was kinda lame.


Well, I thought it was interesting how he kind of evoked that character from The Twilight Zone (I forget which episode). "I'm gonna wish Green Lantern to the cornfield!"

I really liked the notion that- on this Earth - the Golden Age never really ended, but was kept alive by a survivor who clung to his memories of "a simplier time." Once again, a great use of the nuclear fears of the time (Alan Moore used a similar trick in his comic book series 1963). One thing - how did those people survive forty years without aging?

[Bleu Unicorn]

I was deeply impressed with this episode, and I've been one of the more critical people of Justice League, but this episode lived up to Part One perfectly.

I love the depth that they made with the Justice Guild having to sacrifice themselves yet again to perserve their world. In many ways, the ideas that Ray held are very deep. He loved that previous world so much, he couldn't part with it, even though he wasn't respecting anyone else's beliefs. How intense is that?

As I said last week, I loved how I had no clue what was going to happen in this episode. I dislike having a pretty thought-out plan of what the next installment of the two-parter is going to be. It almost makes it not worth watching. And the idea of this alternate reality was well handled.

Going back to the campiness and satires from last week, they fit in well. It was well-balanced, although not as used as last week. Which was nice as well. It was almost too much last week.

All in all, a great episode. The show should be like this every week!

[Joker85]

This was a funny, and oddly touching episode. I kinda thought the ending was sad. It was still pretty funny with the red phone and all the hokey lines. GLs reaction was understandable, though. I think he and Hawkgirl we come to be real close, how close, who can tell?? ;) Anyways, this was a great eppy, 5 out of 5 stars. One question, who was the dedication to at the end?? I can't believe this is our last new JL for 2 whole months. That sux!! :(

[Bud 'n Lou]

I thought it was pretty good. Not as good as I thought it would be though. As many predicted, Ray Thompson was creating an illusion. It kinda reminded me of the Twilight Zone episode "It's a Good Life" with Billy Mumy as evil little Anthony. But I didn't like Ray's true form. I dunno...Just didn't. I thought it was fitting that the Guild sacrificed themselves in the end, but often times, the scenes meant to be touching came off a bit maudlin, helped in no small measure by Kris Carter's silly "sad piano" score. I swear, Shirley Walker could kick his ass any day of the week.
Anyway, cool action sequences. I loved the scene where they rescued Flash and Black Siren from the Injustice Guild. And I have to applaud the clever camera angle when the Magician fell from the blimp and then J'onn carried him back on-screen.

[Dark Knight]

That was a masterpeice. I honestly don't know if I've ever been as touched by an episode since Dan Turpin's sacrifice in "Apokolips... Now!"
Obviously I laughed a whole lot less this time around, but the mood change ruined nothing. This episode did more for GL than "In Blackest Night" and "Brave and the Bold" combined in my opinnion. We got to really see what makes him tick and as it turns out it's the same thing that would have inspired any of us if we suddenly became superheroes.
I pretty much had it all figured out that Ray was behind it all, but it was unexpected that the Justice Guild was beyond his control when it came down to stopping him, and then there's the other survivers. I didn't see them coming either.
This whole episode went from insanely funny to intensely creepy so fast. I was getting chills when GL and HG were exploring the Library, and then to see John Stewarts Comic heroes salute to him and fade to reveal the ravages of a war torn city was quite possibly the most powerful thing I've ever seen happen in the animated DC Universe.
I'm a little ashamed that I was kind of groaning at this episode when I first heard of it, but now it's definately my favorite of the series thus far. And they didn't need to cram Batman, Joker, or Darkseid down my throat for me to enjoy it. I've said it so many times, so I might as well say it again: This series improves with every episode. Five Stars.

PS: If anyone wants to nitpick about Flash's sudden forgetfulness on his vibration powers or GL convenient powering of the gateway, I'll talk about that later. All in all those were microscopic imperfections at thier worst compared to the big picture which was beautiful!

[Karkull]

Originally posted by Joker85
One question, who was the dedication to at the end??

The dedication was to Garner Fox, one of the most respected writers of the Silver Age's The Justice League of America. I think he was also the creator of the "Multiple Earths" concept.

[Behonkiss]

My God, that was so touching...This went WAY beyond what I expected. I remember thinking that the Guild would be made of overblown and ultra-corny members to the point of hating them, and while this wasn't nonexistent, I really grew to love them. I also loved how unpredictable the plot was; I'm very grateful the preview for this episode didn't spoil anything.

And as for the "not aging" thing: Ray pretty much controlled the world, remember? Since he pretty much wanted it to go on forever, he didn't want them to age.

A last note: The Ray mutant wasn't a little disturbing. Anyone else notice that throbbing vein? Blegh.

5 stars for sure.

[Borg4of3]

Originally posted by Clayface
My reaction? "what the heck was that?"

Eh. I didn't care for the first part of this story arc, and the second one didn't impress me either. The big-headed freak was kinda lame.


Geez, humor doesn't touch you, tragic sacrifice doesn't touch you - sure you shouldn't be called Mr. Freeze? :p Just kidding of course - to each his own. Personally, I liked the mutant Ray character. Not only was it a big surprise, but its kinda funny that a tiny thing like him was beating up the JL, when huge monster robots (yeah, we got 2 of them this 2parter!) couldn't! And I noticed that throbbing vein too! Creepy thing.

[Bob...SpongeBob]

Wow. This was an AWESOME ep! Anything that can make me laugh, cry, give me the heebie-geebies, and make me jump off the couch screaming "Holy Crap" is a worthwhile episode. I looked up Gardener F. Fox on Google and it looks like he's a sci-fi author. Anyway back to the ep.
THE GOOD: geez, its all good. The heroic "we died once to save the world", the ending fight, all cool. also, give up a round of applause for Flash: When he uses his ear decoration thing to punch a hole in the blimp, and the quote "Useful and decorative" :D :D
THE BAD: The getting home part wasn't what I expected it to be, but thats ok. good anyway.
The NITPICKY: Shouldn't mutant Ray be more damaged if J'onn shoved his arm into his head? Ow.
Anyway, I gave this ep 5 out of 5 stars. JL writers, I look forward to I4A.

[JohnStewart-GL]

Another great ep!!! i almost cried when Streak saluted John. And whoever said Ray was responsible is very intelligent because they were right. The end was funny when Flash was telling Bats and Supes about the JGA,but the mood changed when i saw how sad John was. I loved the fact that when Hawkgirl said the werent the JGA he got real defensive.

[Knight]

Very nice episode. I loved the mystery involved with what was really going on. The JGA ,while i thought they were kinda campy were true heroes who knew in the end to win was to in a sence die.

Green Lantern was also great during this story he was understandably shaken from the fact that his favorite heroes had died. The scene with Hawkgirl was also very touching.

[Thundercleese]

Before i saw this 2nd part, i had already decided it was my favorite episode(s) of the season. Ray was freaky, the vein and the huge head....ewww.

[Bob...SpongeBob]

uggg... the vein was sooooooo gross. it twitched. <shudders> yow. nasty.

[Failure]

I was afraid the 2nd part wouldn't meet up to my expectations and wouldn't be as good as the 1st part, but wow. There was certainly no letdown here. In fact, it was even better than the 1st as great as that was. Legends is by far my most favorite two parter. Great comedic dialogue, intriguing storyline, and the ending... wow. This is also the first time I've felt that a JL ep had real poignancy. When the JGA decided to sacrifice themselves for the name of justice and GL's subsequent reaction. great great great.

This was far and away the best JL ep of the season, IMO. 5 stars, no question.

[warmachine04]

"Legends" Part 2 was an interesting and somewhat worthy followup to part 1. The episode had humor, good action and an amusing twist but the story wasn't as solid as I expected from part 1. I was most impressed with the characters of Green Lantern and Hawkgirl. They provided much of the episode's depth and great dialogue.

Overall, Part 2 of "Legends" scores :) :) :) :) / 5 :).

[The Guitar Slayer]

When little Ray was revealed, I thought, "Yet another unexpected twist." I thought the writers did an excellent job with the characters that they were writing for. Definitely the best two-parter so far in the series. Did anybody else pick up on the name on the Black Siren's grave stone?

Donna Lance....Dinah Lance....Black Canary

[FLIPMODE]

It was'nt all that great.

I think The Brave and The Bold was still Better than this.

WHY OH WHY, was the Flash Subdued, for 20 minutes, in plain old ROPE?? That's poor writing. Or plot gas. We've all seen Flash Vibrate through Ice, in S:TAS, and we all know that rope is not a threat to him. Plus the handcuff scene in B&B showcased he still had those skills. So why could't flas get through some rope?

Other than that, the ending was pretty cool. But still nothing new. It Seemed semi re-hashed material from B:TAS.

This is probably the 3rd best episode.

[JLU Dude]

I saw it. It was cool. I felt kinda sorry for everyone on that world, even Ray. I hope the real JSA shows up in Season 2. Good all around.

[Emerald Archer]

I have complained in the past that this Justice League of America just didn't feel right to me. Something was wrong. Well tonight it feels right. THis is many ways was the team I grew up with and loved. And make no bones about it, this was a TEAM. Not seven heroes doing their own thing, but a real team.

Did I laugh during the episode, yes I did.

Did I shudder at the realization that this world was an illusion, oh yeah.

And yes I cried. But not at the passing of the JGA. We knew, from the moment that Ray was exposed as the author of this reality that they were going to go. No, I cried at the dedication. It was so unexpected, and so damn loving a tribute to Mr. Fox. I guess I'm sadded that a man who made such an impact on the Comics industry is almost forgotten by the modern fan. Mr. Fox did indeed create the concept of the multiverse, but more than that. He scripted many of the early JLA/JSA team ups. He helped revive the silver age Flash, which started the whole silver age anyways. No more loving tribute could have been given to the man than the Legends story arc. ANd for the first time, I'm glad the JSA was not used in this episode. They wouldn't have killed them off at the end. The Guilds passing made the episode so much more powerful. JLA has hit the stride that I was hoping for. We have seen glimmers of greatness in individual episodes, but never a complete arc that is great, we now have out first. So many little throw away items that show just how much love went into this one. Anyone notice the name of the tombstone for Black Siren? Maybe thats a minor thing, but from little details a great episode arises.

Best of all, the idea of the multiverse lives on. Maybe next season we will get to see a JSA crossover. Or a world with Captain Marvel. I know, DC now has Hypertime, which is nothing more than a fancy new word for the Multiverse, but their doing nothing with that idea. OH God, how about a crossover episode when they meet a different Green Lantern, and his name happens to be Hal!!!!!!!!!!!

[Knight]

One thing I've wondered on further review of the ep is, was Ray dead? Because you have to figure if he wasnt once he comes back around mentally he can recreate his world again and go back to doing what he was doing before the Justice League showed up.

I also would have liked to have known if the Batman and Superman were working on a way to get them home or if they had assumed the others had been killed. I remember Professor Hamilton on STAS having created a machine that allows people to transverse universes. That would have been nice to have been briefly mentioned or seen.

Still 5 stars all the way from me

[Nightwing]

I loved it too. It was brilliantly done and I couldn't be more pleased because of it. And I eat up that cheesy patriotic cornball corny stuff, so it's not like it ever effected me negatively. ;)

And in reponse to HuntressDiana's worry, I wouldn't. Yeah I thought about it, but for no particular reason. Comfort is comfort. And in fact, guys are capable of too I hear. ;)

[BatChick]

I was thoroughly surprised when Ray was revealed as being behind it. Didn't see that coming. And the vein was freaky.

I couldn't help but feel bad for John. It's as if a part of his childhood was taken away. And I was impressed with the way he and Hawkgirl played off one an other.

[Joe Tully]

Yup, this was definitely the best story so far. The only complaint I have is that I wish they had played up the whole "Did we do the right thing?" issue with the JL a little more. Their actions basically killed the JGA (again), and while the townspeople were still alive, and now had their freedom, you have to wonder if they are really better off now that they are living in an undeveloped, barren wasteland.

This episode was screaming "Twilight Zone," which I thought was great.

I think that JGA now joins the JLU as a team invented for a cartoon series that is loved by the fans. I expect the petitions for a JGA series to spring up sometime soon. :cool:

[Gpoliceman]

Hey gang!

I tape every episode of Justice League and make a description on my computer for each episode so I know which ones I like and where they are located on my video tape.


So far, The Enemy Below and Legends are my top rated episodes. Both got 4/4 stars in my book.

I thought this episode had:

1. Excellent story- They really did well displaying the Golden Age superheroes, and I actually did feel sad at the end of the episode. I actually liked the villain too, and felt bad for him. I didn't think he was truly evil, I thought I actually understood him.
2. Further developed Green Lantern- he makes a very good leader (thus far, GL looks to be a better leader for the JL than Superman)
3. Further developed GL and Hawkgirl's relationship. Now, I dont think there's any romantic involvement between the two though. So far I think they are becoming strictly GREAT friends. Thus far on JL with the episodes we've seen, GL and Hawkgirl seem to be the best of friends. I am hoping a Knight in the Shadows makes Batman and Martin Manhunter closer, and as we've seen, Batman might have the hots for Wonder Woman.



So I thought Legends and The Enemy Below are the best episodes thus far on the series.

I am hoping Injustice For All also scores 4/4 in my books.

PS: All the other episodes of the show except for Warworld scored 3/4 stars. Warworld scored 2/4.

Gpoliceman

[Mister Intensity]

I enjoyed this two parter. The second part of the season is so much stronger than the first part of the season ("Warworld" not withstanding).

Black Siren's name, I believe, is Donna Vance. My only compliant is the Flash not vibrating out of his bonds (then again, maybe Ray dampened their powers to a certain extent).

The ending was sad and I love the dedication to Gardner Fox at the end. It makes sense that Green Lantern was able to power Tom's machine. After all of the tragedy of that day, it makes sense that Green Lantern would want to go home. John's ring works on willpower and he wanted to go home and he wanted Tom's machine to work because he believed in the JGA. So using the ring to activate the machine makes perfect sense.

It would be interesting for the Justice League to meet the real Justice Guild. Remember, the Guild, the Leaguers met were filtered through Ray's idealized image (for better or for worse) of the JGAers, so mayber the real Guild is probably not as "corny" as Ray's image. The version of events that's depicted in the JGA comic book is probably filtered through dimensional barriers and the restrictions of the comic books for kids format. Reality is probably different from the fantasy. I also hold out for the possiblity of the Justice League teaming up with the real Justice Society.

"Legends" was just an amazing episode.

Mister Intensity

[Memphis Bleek]

A superb storyarc of JL. Part II had me guessing until the very end. The animation and dialogue were top notch. The fighting scence were well choregraphed. My only problem with part II was flash not vibrating out of the rope. We now have two super couple: Batman with Wonder Woman and Green Lantern with Hawkgirl. Gardener Fox would have been proud.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy all,

I suspect this episode is going to generate the same "love it or hate it" reaction that part 1 did. Place me firmly and solidly into the "love it" category.

This is one of those episodes that works on a number of levels, working as both an homage and an elegy to the Golden and Silver Ages of comics. Those days are over, but the Justice Guild (and, by extension, that era) demonstrate that they can still teach us things about the true meaning of being a (super)hero. Continuing to fight the good fight in the face of near-certain oblivion is the mark of a true hero, and this message has even more resonance in the aftermath of 9/11.

That said, there are still things about the episode which annoy me. The Flash couldn't get out of ropes or a block of ice on his own. The JL, once Ray is revealed as the enemy, proceeds directly into a superhero conga line to receive their sequential beat-down at his hands (and right after the terrific teamwork in part 1). The JGA, despite being Ray's imaginary creations, can still manage to defeat him. A crowd of people have managed to survive for 40 years, without aging, in a post-nuclear holocaust. Any of those elements could have been explained, or at least addressed; it's the kind of sloppiness that has marred JL as a series up to now in general.

However, like "The Brave and the Bold," I'm willing to overlook the plot weaknesses for the sake of the whole. So far, at least, this has been my favorite episode of the entire series run.

I'm also kind of saddened that people here don't know who Gardner Fox is. Dig deep enough into the history of almost any DC icon and you'll find Mr. Fox behind them. He was responsible for the Silver Age relaunches of the Flash, Green Lantern, and Hawkman. I think the dedication was one of the most touching moments of the whole show.

Let Justice Prevail!

-- Ed/Ace

[SimonMoon5]

I saw Black Siren's name as "Donna Nance".

Anyway, this episode rolled on to its obvious conclusion. Yes, it was in fact Ray Thompson (Roy Thomas) behind it all. What a big surprise. The predictability wouldn't have been so bad had this been an one-part one-hour show, but as a two part episode, where you have time to think, "Yup, Ray's behind it all, alright," it fails badly imho.

Oh, sure, there were nice bits here and there. But I really think the League was in the wrong when they battled Ray. What was his crime? Without knowing that some people were real, all the League knew was that he had made a dead world into a live one. And he lied. And that was it until he attacked J'Onn. It would've seemed more reasonable if the League had just talked to Ray about responsibility, etc, etc, and after giving him a stern lecture, the League could go home, with the JGA still alive. Yeah, they'd have to get him to stop fighting, but if they had quit attacking him, he probably would've listened to reason, especially once the Guild started talking to him.

And then they killed him. They killed him. Again, the heroes of this cartoon are killers.

Sure, this time it was the Guild doing the killing, and anti-killing sentiment was different back in the Golden Age, from which the Guild are drawn. But still... not one member of the Guild tried talking to Ray either.

Oh, sure, it's not absolutely clear that they killed him, but if they didn't, then the ending is moot, since the kid can just do it all all over again, once he wakes up. So either the ending is moot, or the heroes killed someone that they didn't even try to talk out of his violent actions.

Only once the real people arrived did the actions of the heroes seem more acceptable... but that's only after the fact. I felt like the writers were tossing me a bone, saying, "Well, the heroes actually did do something good," rather than the bad things that they were clearly *trying* to do.

[Bird Boy]

A new two-part Justice League adventure!


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jl/episodes/legends/p1/22.jpg

Episode #18 - Legends, Part 1
Original Airdate - April 21st, 2002

During a fight with Lex Luthor, the Justice League is blasted into an alternate reality where they meet the Justice Guild of America, a group of old-fashioned comic-book heroes whose exploits Green Lantern remembers reading about when he was a kid.


Episode #19 - Legends, Part 2
Original Airdate - April 28th, 2002

After coming across startling evidence concerning the Justice Guild, Green Lantern approaches the heroes with it with horrific results.

Comments?

[Harvey Dent]

I liked both parts, and I sorta liked the JGA, but nothing could possibly top seeing the JL meet the real Justice Society of America. Both Flashes; both GLs; Batman, Wildcat, AND Dr. Midnite; etc. That would be fantastic!

[Captain Sarcasm]

I cried at the end. I cried for John, I cried for Ray, I cried for the Guild.

I don't see why DC wouldn't let them use the JSA. The end of part two more than made up for the campiness they'd be put through, and was a finish that any hero would be proud of.

[Kesh]

A very fun episode! Not quite as entertaining as part 1, but fun nonetheless. It was a little disappointing to have Roy be the villain (as others have pointed out, just like the Twilight Zone episode), but it worked out for the story.

regarding the Flash and ropes... well, he was several hundred feet in the air. Where was he gonna go? Not to mention, he would've left Black Siren behind.

And Roy's true form reminded me of a villain... can't remember if it was DC or Marvel, but it was a huge-headed, small limbed alien creature who rode a golden hovering chair and had a gold headband. It had psychic powers too... name started with an M... can't remember for sure what it was though. :confused:

And I can't honestly believe Roy would have listened. He was a child, and used to not only getting his way, but having control over everyone else to boot. There's no way he would have listened to reason, he just wanted to put things back the way they were. Also, I got the feeling he wasn't dead... but the townspeople may have taken that into their own hands after the heroes left.

I was very glad they didn't use the Flash/treadmill idea to power the portal though. GL's ring made much more sense in this case, and I really liked the way that worked out. 4 / 5 stars.

[metaphysician]

This episode was really good. . . and rather depressing.

I knew things were going to get dark, but I didn't know how dark.

Also, did anyone else pick on the several layers of symbolism in this episode??

-death of the golden age of comics

-loss of innocence

-. . .something else. I haven't pinned it down yet, but it has something to do with the way the icons of the Golden Age were noble, unto their own death.

[Livewire]

Since I enjoyed the first part so much, I was really looking forward to the second part. What did I think of the second part? Well......



I liked it. The touching moments- the JGA making such a huge sacrifice, and Hawkgirl comforting GL- were moments that rarely happen in JL.


However, this episode did have its share of discrepencies. Why was Flash held captive by some ice? Like FLIPMODE previously stated, he vibrated through ice in S:TAS easily. Why didn't GL think about using his ring as a power source before ? And shouldn't Ray have been much more injured after what J'onn did to his head?


I was hoping that we'd see Batman and Superman's reaction when the rest of the JL came back. Just seeing Flash talk to them in the Watchtower was kind of disappointing. They could have at least said something in response.


I'd have to give this episode 3 stars, because even though I thought it was good, I thought the first part, which I gave 3 1/2 stars, was better. I was expecting more from part two, and, imo, I don't think it reached its full potential.

[Emerald Archer]

First of all the fact that that Flash couldn't vibrate out of the ice or the ropes really doesn't bother me. This was Roy's world, and without really knowing how powerful he was I have made the assumption that he prevented Flash, somehow, from getting out of those bonds. Perhpas he clouded Wally's mind to the point that Wally thought that he couldn't get out of the ropes or ice. Seem's that Roy was able to impart mental images on his victims, perhpas this was part of it.

Roy is DEAD?????? I'm not sure we can say that. Is he down for the count. Yup. Indeed he may now be in a vegatative state, but to think he's dead really jumps the gun.

I was wondering if anyone else had gotten the subtle tribute to Roy Thomas. Who revived those wonderful Golden Age Heroes in the 80's.

I'll have to go back and stop motion my VCR but I could swear that Black Sirens last name was Lance. Wish we could have see the grave of Catman, bet it was Ted Wayne:)

[Spyact3]

I thought this episode was okay. I still think Brave and the Bold was better. This episode was too twighlight zone. It reminded me way to much of the one where the kid would zap people to the "cornfield" if they were bad. I gave it only about 3 stars. I liked GL in this one though. I thought we got to see his character much better.

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by SimonMoon5
And then they killed him. They killed him. Again, the heroes of this cartoon are killers.

Sure, this time it was the Guild doing the killing, and anti-killing sentiment was different back in the Golden Age, from which the Guild are drawn. But still... not one member of the Guild tried talking to Ray either.

Oh, sure, it's not absolutely clear that they killed him, but if they didn't, then the ending is moot, since the kid can just do it all all over again, once he wakes up. So either the ending is moot, or the heroes killed someone that they didn't even try to talk out of his violent actions.

Only once the real people arrived did the actions of the heroes seem more acceptable... but that's only after the fact. I felt like the writers were tossing me a bone, saying, "Well, the heroes actually did do something good," rather than the bad things that they were clearly *trying* to do.

That's a very interesting and worthwhile point. Killing is something that Golden Age heroes would be even LESS likely to do than modern ones. But I guess that issue can only be adressed with a question. One that I feel is probably supposed to be at least a little ambiguous.

How much of the real heroes were actually in Ray's recreations and how connected to him were they?

Technically Ray's constructs killed him not the REAL heroes. But it's also pretty clear that these creations were supposed to be duplicates of the real deal (if not filtered for camp in the mind of a child of that time period.) Personally the way I'm going to look at is that since the heroes were Ray's creations then they knew what he was doing to all of the survivers and they knew what a crime it was ("In Seaboard City, Crime doesnt pay!" ;) ) They could have known inheritantly that there was no other way of stopping him and that the lives of the people trapped in Ray's illusion were at stake.

This can be looked at from several different angles including the very real possibility that the heroes' legacy was alive only through a part of Ray, a part that ended up killing himself out of guilt.

[RockyMtnBri]

Very impressed and very surprised! My theories about what might've happened in part 2 were way off - and I'm glad! I love a surprise like that, and the Gardner Fox dedication was very cool.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Kesh
And Roy's true form reminded me of a villain... can't remember if it was DC or Marvel, but it was a huge-headed, small limbed alien creature who rode a golden hovering chair and had a gold headband. It had psychic powers too... name started with an M... can't remember for sure what it was though. :confused:

And I can't honestly believe Roy would have listened. He was a child, and used to not only getting his way, but having control over everyone else to boot. There's no way he would have listened to reason, he just wanted to put things back the way they were.

The villain you're thinking of is Modok (the organism designed only for killing) or the second female version Modam. But I was thinking more of the poor victims of "Crisis on Earth-Prime" in which a nuclear war wiped out all of us on the real world, after the Crime Syndicate stirred up the Bay of Pigs incident by stealing some nuclear missiles.

Ray/Roy might not have listened, but it seems like someone should've *tried* talking to him. There was no indication before he lashed out that he was going to be an evil psychopath. He was a friendly kid up until then.

And so what if he just wanted to put things back the way they were? Up until the last minute revelation, the way things were was better than the real world. Until we found that out, the heroes should've been willing to accept the fake world as being preferable to reality. (Yeah, yeah, heroes in these situations always want to face reality, no matter how painful it is, but if he's actually creating things, the fake reality is real, I'd say.)

And was I the only one to recognize the giant red robot that Roy created as a distraction?

[Karkull]

Originally posted by Livewire
However, this episode did have its share of discrepencies...Why didn't GL think about using his ring as a power source before ? And shouldn't Ray have been much more injured after what J'onn did to his head?

Hey...yeah! And shouldn't they have checked to see which reality they were racing into first? Why, they could have run right into Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew!

:p


Originally posted by Kesh
And Roy's true form reminded me of a villain... can't remember if it was DC or Marvel, but it was a huge-headed, small limbed alien creature who rode a golden hovering chair and had a gold headband. It had psychic powers too... name started with an M... can't remember for sure what it was though.

You're thinking of Modok, a classic Marvel Comics villain. Actually, Ray reminded me a bit of Hector Hammond with that oversized head.

Finally, chalk my vote up for Black Siren's real name being Donna Vance.

[metaphysician]

Another explaination for the JGA's defeat of Roy:

While being constructs of his mind, they were created too much like the real thing, ALA Silicon Soul. Thus, they could turn against Roy if he was truely revealed. Nonetheless, the real fight was occuring essentially in Roy's mind. Thus, when everything disappeared, it indicated that Roy's mind was destroyed or hopelessly fragmented.

[daedalus222]

I still think they could have done this with the JSA and I am STILL holding out hope that the JSA will appear soon--but all of that being said---what I was cringing to happen never did and this episode seems to be unilaterally (across the harsh critics of the show such as myself and the always supportful bunch of fans) regarded as a great episode.

I am glad that there hasn't been any discussions of Hawkgirl and GL--I think the talk of Bats and WW and GL-and Hawkgirl are juvenille in my opinion. It's kind of like debating whether that kiss MJ gives Spidey in the upcoming cartoon will mean that she has 'feelings' for him. Why waste time debating an obvious conclusion?

I'd rather debate or exchange ideas about whether Flash and all of the JL's will escape plot gas attacks (MM in warWorld, Supes in every DAMN episode and Flash in this one---attached to a balloon with rope---aighhhh!! sometimes I get the feeling that monkeys' write the show--it's so insane that no one during editing or voice work or internal viewing at Cartoon Network--picks up on obvious silliness like that..why not just have him knocked out for god's sake??)

Having said all that---this ep didn't make me cry but I certainly flet a nice warm tug--the 1st real emotional resonance the series has produced at all this season (ironically the 1st ep aired saturday night and later that night had the emotionally stirring and superior Two-Face part one---god, if Timma nd Loeb can bring masterpiece fiction like that to JL next season it will be one-heckuva ride.

Still hope to see the proper JSA used one day--maybe a direct to video movie?? Dr. Fate, Dr. midnite, Spectre, orignal Flash, GL and Wildcat, Hawkman, Hourman, the Atom...man---that just makes me smile thinking about it.

Why was my original post deleted moderators??

P.S> What a tribute to Gardner Fox--now THAT almost made me cry.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Dark Knight

Personally the way I'm going to look at is that since the heroes were Ray's creations then they knew what he was doing to all of the survivers and they knew what a crime it was ("In Seaboard City, Crime doesnt pay!" ;)

Well, it would've helped if they had let us the viewers know, because I was wondering why the heck they were willing to go to their deaths just to prevent their world from being alive.
:p

[Anarky]

good ep
kinda like that one ep of Twilight Zone, where that kid had those freaky mind powers...and everyone in town did their best to think happy thoughts. Even when he did bad, everyone applauded him out of fear. The Simpsons also did a spoof of this ep in one of their Treehouse of Horrors shows.

alas, no new eps on the horizon.
oh well, at least i get to record the wide-screen version of War World (i missed it last time)

[Joe Wagner]

As of right now this is far and away my favorite arc of JL:TAS so far. The mystery behind the JGA missing and the revelation behind it was perfect! Not only that but we finally got an explanation why something seemed to happen every time one of the JL members began to question the JGA.

Hawkgirl and GL's detective work was very well done and GL's emotion to the entire scene of seeing his childhood heroes sacrifice themselves again was touching. Not only that but the beginning kept the same campiness that I enjoyed throughout the first episode - while still retaining the shows integrity throughout the episode. I hope that more of the newer JL episodes will give us the same epic feel that I got when we saw the JGA risk themselves to save the fallen JL members.

-Joe!

[Batman 80]

Great episode. Very touching. That was a very heart felt episode. I could really feel Green Lantern's pain. Just imagine if you met the JL in real life only to have them taken away from you, I probably would feel the same way he did.

[Barb Gordon]

I definetly enjoyed the first part more then the second, but the second part was still a pretty good episode. I didn't like the fact the Flash wasn't able to vibrate out of the ice, whether due to Roy or not, but I loved how he used his lightning ornaments on his head to puncture the blimp. Hawkgirl get's even cooler and cooler. At the start of JL, there wasn't much they were doing with her character. She just beat things up. But they've done well going more in depth with her, not to mention Green Lantern. You don't they're going to imply feelings between those two do you? My favorite part was when Hawkgirl said line which is associated with The Mad Hatter "Curiouser and curiouser. This was certainly an ep with sad, thoughtful ending. And mutated Roy totally freaked me out. And I don't think he's dead either. Just knocked out, maybe momentarily or indefintely, he just seemed to be unconcious.

Barb^-^

[Ajax]

Originally posted by Clayface
My reaction? "what the heck was that?"

Eh. I didn't care for the first part of this story arc, and the second one didn't impress me either. The big-headed freak was kinda lame.


Well I would have to agree with Clayface, Both parts weren't that good in my opinon. But hey that's looking from a older person point of view. Maybe to you younger ones it was a great ep.


What's the point of going out? We're just going to wind up back here anyway. -Homer Simpson

[GL2k2]

This episode succeeded in telling us what happened to that world. As where part one reminded me of "The Gray Ghost" and "Legends of the Dark Knight", this second episode reminded me of "Perchance to Dream". Also, we see for sure that this is pretty much another GL spotlight episode, that's about two or three so far, huh? Tied just about with Wonder Woman, and I believe Metamorphisis is another GL spotlight, but I'm not positive.

Also, looks like we know where Batman gets his save-the-day-attitude, who would've thought Catman was like that? But anyway, I thought the fight with the Injustice Guild was too cool, and Flash still threw some cherished one-liners.

The villian reminded me of a Marvel character for some reason. Definitely a great episode. Can't wait till they release this series on DVD. Also, we need some cool commentaries.

[Nightfeather]

Well, I enjoyed the first part better than the second, but I thought both were well done. What I'd like to have seen is more info on what happened to the world. Maybe a flashback showing how the JG originally died. Still a solid ep.

[The Green Hornet]

But hey that's looking from a older person point of view. Maybe to you younger ones it was a great ep.


thats just wrong on so many levels

[The Guard]

One:

I love the fact that Flash's ear thingies now have a USE other than being transmitters.

Two:

Would YOU vibrate through the ropes if you were tied to the side of a blimp and there was a strong chance you'd fall to your death?

Three:

I found the scene where the JGA was in a circle punching that bubble to be lame. :)

Four:

Ray isn't dead. J'onn even said: "He couldn't keep up the illusion." So he basically passed out from the mental shock of it all.