The age of cel animation has passed, get over it!!!

[I.R Joey]

Seriously you people should get a clue. I mean can't you see that the new movies like Shrek and all of Pixars stuff has pushed us into the new eschelon of animation. I sight Final Fantasy the Spirits within as my example. The charecters and backgrounds bordered photorealistic in their appearence. Then for example look at something like Dexter or the PPG which looks like they where drawn by kindergardners I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is no longer any use for traditional 2d stuff which often just comes across as dated and cheap, and that all the studios should convert their energy into this, instead of the traditional stuff.
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So argue that. ;) ;) ;)

[Vin]

Originally posted by I.R Joey
Seriously you people should get a clue. I mean can't you see that the new movies like Shrek and all of Pixars stuff has pushed us into the new eschelon of animation. I sight Final Fantasy the Spirits within as my example. The charecters and backgrounds bordered photorealistic in their appearence. Then for example look at something like Dexter or the PPG which looks like they where drawn by kindergardners I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is no longer any use for traditional 2d stuff which often just comes across as dated and cheap, and that all the studios should convert their energy into this, instead of the traditional stuff.
=

Okay, I have no problems really with digital/computer animation. I judge films based on plot. That being said, a movie like "Final Fantasy" I didn't enjoy, whereas, I enjoyed films like "Monsters Inc." and "Shrek." Sure "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within" was beautiful to look at, but plot is everything.

[Chibi Kageboshi]

i hope your mouth starts to burn... 2D animation is awesome, cgi is good for movies but not for series except for maybe Reboot.

[I.R Joey]

But seriously how much longer do you think it will last. Computers are getting more and more advanced every year practically. Soon you won't be able to tell the diffrence between real life and CGI, I mean when we come down to it, hasn't it always been about these asthetic values?

[joshualane]

How about this argument, of all the films being released this year to theatres, only 3 are CGI.

Metropolis
Escaflowne - A Girl in Gaia
Peter Pan II - Return to Neverland
Ice Age
Spirit - Stallion of the Cimarron
Lilo & Stitch
Hey Arnold! - The Movie
Powerpuff Girls - The Movie
Spirited Away
Kaena - The Prophecy
Treasure Planet
Adam Sandler's 8 Crazy Nights
The Wild Thornberrys
Jonah - A Veggie Tales Movie

While I don't think that 2D animation is dead, I think that the processes by which it is created are shifting rapidly. Right now, we're getting 2D animated movies with CGI enhanced backgrounds, effects, & characters (Treasure Planet, Spirit, Metropolis, etc) and I think this is a trend that will continue.

What's also happening is that studios are experimenting with cel-shaded CGI Animation. The upcoming Spiderman series done by Mainframe is a good example of that and I think this trend will continue as well.

I think that overall there will be animation that looks 2D and animation that looks 3D for quite some time, but either way, computers will be doing it all eventually.

[Pilmedium]

I'll never get over it. Computers shouldn't do the work for people.

[auto]

I think 2d looks better

[mbaker]

It dosen't matter if an animated film is done by hand, or by CGI. Plot is everything.

[LightAngel]

I don't agree that cel animation is outdated at all. Just because it isn't computer generated or anything doesn't make it less of a success. Cell animated films can have just as much plot and quality as computer generated films. The fact that a technologically advanced computer is used to create a film doesn't always matter at all. I think the world can handle an industry that focus on both methods.

[Vin]

Originally posted by mbaker
It dosen't matter if an animated film is done by hand, or by CGI. Plot is everything.

Thank you for agreeing with me. :)

[Zechs]

I like cel better.

[Ashton Anchors]

I only like CGI if the plot and the CGI is good. I mean...if it's too much, doesn't fit and all that crud, then it's bad period.

[I.R Joey]

exiting mode...

okay wait you guys do of coarse realize that this is one of my controversial opinion threads right? Don't hate me. :(

[Vin]

Originally posted by I.R Joey
exiting mode...

okay wait you guys do of coarse realize that this is one of my controversial opinion threads right? Don't hate me. :(

Hey, I.R. Joey, do not worry about. No one is going to hate you. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. We do not have to agree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion, nonetheless.

[Psycho Fox]

Just a small point most 2D animation is done on computers now since it is cheaper then cell. As for 3D replacing 2D, I don't think 3D will always be more expensive then 2D.

[Terminatah]

Originally posted by Pilmedium
I'll never get over it. Computers shouldn't do the work for people. You do realize there's animators who make the computers do what they do.

-Terminatah

[mistah_j]

Computers are a tool used after regualr drawings are done to storyboard. Personally, I love traditional 2D animation. All the classic movies. But computer animation is nice. But as stated above, there HAS to be a good plot. Personally, (and don't started the hate mail when I say this) I hated Shrek. It just annoyed me. I didn't like the style.
And don't forget, some of the best stuff is when computer animation and traditional 2D are combined. They work together to create something amazing.

[CookieS]

Oh cel animation might be dead, but that doesn't mean they will stop producing cel-looking computer animated cartoons. The Powerpuff Girls, Dexter, and a handful of others use computers to enhance the cel animation. Also anime cartoons such as Zoids and Pilot Canidate mix CGI and traditional animation, as did the New Adventures of Johnny Quest. Anyways, its not dead, just don't differently...so there is no arguement to argue.

[Barb Gordon]

2D animation has certainly taking a backseat to computer animation, but I don't think it'll ever be completely gone. There are loads of absolutely stunning 2D animated films, that just can not be compared to the CGI ones. Yes, CGI is really awesome and is coming along very fast in its development. But nothing will ever really be able to replace the feeling you get seeing a 2D animated film and seeing this stunning art work come to life.

Barb^-^

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've heard this arguement before where someone asserts CGI is taking over animation, and they point to Shrek and the Pixar movies. But usually, they don't take in account that, right now, CGI movies are usually "big" movies with the high standards that come with it. Soon, CGI won't be as unique, and consequently, the standards of the productions will drop. It's already happened in TV shows like Butt Ugly Martians and others I have no inclination to drop. So, I think, in 10 - 15 years, you'll have your good 3d and 2d movies, and you'll have your bad 3d and 2d movies. They'll always be around.

[RogueMartian]

This appears to be another one of those mock controversy threads, so I'll put in my 2 cents.

CGI animation can look as real as it want. The more realistic it is, the more it injures itself. Why spend all the time to make things 3D and realistic when you can just use real actors and use the CGI for backup? 2D animation is not good because of how close it can be to looking like human beings, its good because its very simplicity gives you an imaginary world to look into that doesn't need details like every blade of grass.

Personally, I don't like CGI because the look of it seems empty. No matter how good they make the technology, the characters movements still look to fluid, and the facial expressions still look empty. And in my opinion, that is an unsolvable problem with CGI. I thought Beauty and the Beast and the Lion King were far more beautiful than Shrek or Final Fantasy.

Now Plot is definitely important to me, and so far I have not been impressed with any of the stories I've seen. Shrek is by far the best CGI movie to come out, and the story wasn't that great. Of course that has nothing to do with CGI anymore, both 2D and 3D animation haven't had a good story in a couple of years. And 2D animation is going downhill bigtime because the CGI stuff is what everyone wants to use now because its the big new thing.

:D That's my 2 cents, take it or leave it.

[mbaker]

Now that you mention it, hand drawn animation isn't as dead as some people think. the artist still draws the characters, but scans them into A computer, and colors them in with software that's similar to Photoshop. It's just that they don't use cels anymore. However they still paint the backgrounds by hand.

[ButteredToast]

Traditional cel-drawn animation will never die. I'm a big fan of CG, but it's only in an upswing.

Shoot, John Lassiter himself totally endorses traditional hand drawn animation! He says that there are things you just CAN'T do in CG that you can with cels.

Don't be surprised if someday down the road, Pixar comes out with a 2D movie.

[Joe Wagner]

Exactly - hand drawn animation will never die. I love CGI flicks too but IMO there are just some stories that have to be told in cel animation or they just wouldn't work right. Overall though the main thing has to be plot and story - if the story sux than it doesn't matter how many hairs on a CGI persons head you can animate - the movie still won't make any money. Cel animated will always have a place in the market - esp since companies like Disney and Dreamworks have shown how beautiful it can look (check out Spirit: Stallion of the Cimmarron and Tarzan for a couple of great examples).

The future 2D CGI - want a sneak peek? Unfortunately it's in French but this will give you an idea of what could be the next thing in animation, click here (http://www.tristan-et-iseut.com/) to see what I'm talking about.

-Joe!

[Andy Mancini]

I think that the biggest problewm with CGI is the "if it's CGI, it's gotta be good" or the opposing "if it's CGI, it's gotta suck like the vacuum of space" mentalities that a lot of people have. I, like many, am looking at plot. Not everything that is CGI or has CGI in it is an automatic "classic" (five minutes with "The Butt Ugly Martians" and "Pilot Canidate" will tell you that). There are good CGI films ("Monsters Inc", "Shrek") and bad ones ("Jimmy Neutron. Boy Genius", "Antz"), just like there are good and bad live action and cel animation films. Everyone has been spoiled by companies like Pixar, who continuously produce high quality movies (and help keep Randy Newman in business). Right now, CGI is a novelty. Soon, the novelty will wear off, and CGI will then be judged on content, just like everything else is.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by ButteredToast
Traditional cel-drawn animation will never die. Ummm it is. Ever since Newtec released the video toaster in the late 80's smaller studios have poped up using computers to lower their over head. They can draw images directly into the computer using drawing tablets thus eliminating the cost of cells plus they don't need a expensive camera. They can colour them on the computer thus they don't need a ink and paint deparment. Since it is already on the computer they can mix the audio tracks plus edit it right there plus changes are faster and easier to make at any time during production. Thus the overhead is lower and produciton time is shorter.

Yes cel animation is still used but it is being fazed out due to its higher costs and longer production time in favor of for using computers for 2D animation.

[sun]

Originally posted by Vincent Benenati


Thank you for agreeing with me. :) I agree completely, story is everything, as I have said before, no story, no nothing, From Shakespeare to Miller. to anyone current. It is a shame, that hand painted cells are gone, but what can we do, bring back all the hand painted cells in Fantasia? We live with what we got. The computer stuff can be real good, if the story and writers are. If they are no good, nothing can help.. Stuart

[The Mad Hatter]

Psycho Fox: when people here are talking about "cel" animation, they're talking about any kind of hand-drawn animation. Yes, we all know the vast majority of hand-drawn animation is digitally colored nowadays, but that doesn't make it CGI except in the strictest of technical senses. In fact, everyone in the animation industry still calls hand-drawn animation "cel." So, for the purposes of this thread: cel=2D animation, CGI=3D animation.

Now, there really has been a thought in the media lately that CGI animation is "replacing" cel animation, with the main argument being that the CGI movies released lately have been better than the cel animation. But Spiff makes a great point: so far, most of the people that have put out CGI movies have made them huge productions with a heck of a lot of effort put into them, from the plot on up. Meanwhile, there has been a small rash of bad cel movies lately, because so many studios just fart them out like far too many have been done in the past.

But soon, we'll start to see bad CGI movies, and not just ambitious failures like Final Fantasy. Think sloppily-made, just-throwing-this-out-for-a-buck productions like Hunchback 2. And then the majority of the world will begin to realize that, cgi or cel, bad animation is bad animation.

I'm glad to see CGI movies come about, as new animation techniques give us new wonders. But CGI won't replace cel in the same way photography didn't replace oil painting. It's an artistic style, and one that is certainly still viable.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter
Psycho Fox: when people here are talking about "cel" animation, they're talking about any kind of hand-drawn animation. Yes, we all know the vast majority of hand-drawn animation is digitally colored nowadays, but that doesn't make it CGI except in the strictest of technical senses. In fact, everyone in the animation industry still calls hand-drawn animation "cel." So, for the purposes of this thread: cel=2D animation, CGI=3D animation.Yes but compaines like Newtek try to divide animation made with and without cels since it is in their best intrest of removing cels from the marketplace. Their marketing campin in the 80's came up with the term pixular animation then in the 90's they changed it to celless animation. Yet it gets confusing categorizing celless animation within the term cel animation it is like categorizing wireless phones with the term wire phones. The whole point of celless animation is removing the cels from the process. So while many people confuse the term cel animation to mean 2D don't let anyone in the celless animation industry hear you mix them up.

[ButteredToast]

Boy, is this ever turning into a "Yes it is"/"No it isn't" discussion...


Anyhoo, I was under the impression we were talking about 2D vs. CG and NOT 2D-Cel vs. 2D-Noncel?

That being said, 2D animation is here to stay.

Stuff like Butt-Ugly Martians will make sure of that.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by ButteredToast
Boy, is this ever turning into a "Yes it is"/"No it isn't" discussion...


Anyhoo, I was under the impression we were talking about 2D vs. CG and NOT 2D-Cel vs. 2D-Noncel?

Sorry just being picky since there is still a fight bettwen cel and cellus technology. Many compaines lost alot of money since studios didn't trade in their cel equipment for celless equipment this is a reason Commadore went bankrupt since they though Amiga 4000T would sell like hot cakes when studios changed over but they took longer to switch over then anyone predected.
That being said, 2D animation is here to stay.

Stuff like Butt-Ugly Martians will make sure of that. Butt-Ugly Martians has to be one of the top 10 worst animated shows on the planet and 2D has dogs too but yhea 3D and 2D can both have a place in the market.

[Zapages]

I have to say that CGI is good in series like Zoids CC/GF but not in Zero for some reason... I think CGI is good to improve the 2D cartoon or anime or even a acting tv show...

2D will probably state forever or until CGI is good as real life... I mean exactly as real life not close exactly like real life..

FF:Spirts within was good but not perfectly good as real life...

[Melon109]

While computer animation has become more common today, I don't think 2D cell animation will die. There are some amazing computer animation as well as cell animation. Some animation looks better and is easier to make with hand drawn animation and sometimes computer animation is better. It all depends on the movie and what you want to do.