The men (?) of Batman Beyond

[The Old Maid]

Ever notice ...

We meet over fifteen Hill High students by name, and several of those have hangers-on (say, Mason and friends, Donnie Brazzo and friends). Let's not count Terry for now (he went to Juvie Hall). Am I the only one who's noticed that there is not one clean-cut, normal, nice guy in the entire building except Jared Tate? All the rest are addicts, thieves, killers, leeches (say, Howard Groote), or jerks (say, Nelson).

People wonder why Dana stays with Terry. Truth is Jared is Terry's only competition.

It's not just a high school problem. Barbara Gordon's husband spends an entire episode ("ATOC") playing the mensel-in-distress. The only person in the police building whom we meet by name is "Dave" from "Babel." He seems like the anxious type. Gordon talks down to him. I would be surprised to hear a supervisor talk to someone else the way she did.

Maybe isolating Gordon from strong men is supposed to make her more formidable. Same with isolating Terry from competition -- to make him more attractive. Is there an anti-man theme in the series or did the writers simply not think?

Just wondering ...

[DerekPowers]

i never thought about that, but its interesting. but lets be honest here, the females aren't much better. Chelsea is a flake, blade is a slut, melenie is a super villian, and dana, well she's just the female counter part of terry. since there arent many females in the show, i'll include inque and curare, and they are severly messed up. The gal from "untouchable" had enough problems, and barb is far from normal. i mean you know she has crazy nightmares, on par with bruce's. And mary mcguiness is like the most clueless mother on the planet. so i'd say bb isn't anti-male, but i would say that everyone in gotham city is seriously screwed up. but i'm sure i'm slightly biast.

[optimal321]

Also take into consideration the fact that they really have no need to write in a lot of nice people. I mean, Batman doesn't really have much contact w/ the kindest people. And on the writers' parts, i think it's a good idea. Ya know, not allow too much time to see people that don't have anything to do w/ the story. We got the good guy, so we don't need to get to know any other minor good guys. Nothing against them, but that's how i see it.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by optimal321
Also take into consideration the fact that they really have no need to write in a lot of nice people. I mean, Batman doesn't really have much contact w/ the kindest people.

Old Maid makes a good observation, but I think optimal and DP nail the reason. You need villains, the hero's in high school, so a large number of the villains turn up there. Call it an occupational hazard of setting the series in that age zone. Or call it a hazard of going to school in Gotham.

[The Old Maid]

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus


Call it an occupational hazard of setting the series in that age zone. Or call it a hazard of going to school in Gotham.

Precisely. These things wouldn't be so noticeable if the series hadn't attempted to include every child in the city.

One teen villain maybe. (Keep Terminal.) Two ... er, fielder's choice. I'm not crazy about any of them. But fifteen, and that's just the boys? That's too much.

No wonder Spellbinder got sick and tired of them ;)

These are random thoughts that don't fit anywhere else ...

I see Terry's school as the place for him to :

1. sleep.
2. choose a concentration that would help him become a better crimefighter
3. lose Dana (it depends).

About Jared ... he strikes me as the only quality man in Hill High. He's certainly the only adult in his house. Jim Tate gets laid off, and how does Mrs. Tate react? "But I haven't finished spending money!" It would have been better to finish the work already paid for so that the house isn't torn up if/when they have to sell it. I can see why she "goes through husbands like popcorn" and Jared doesn't bother to get attached. No one can afford her.

Jared hears the news and the first words out of his mouth are, "what can I do to help?" Now that's class. All the more so because it is the parents' job to provide for the child, not the other way around. It's different for Terry. His mother works as hard as she can and it's still not enough money. For him a job is a necessity. Let Jim Tate go back to the service, become a policeman, or teach at the police academy first. If the family will starve without Jared's contribution, then they should take his money. But he shouldn't be doing their job for them.

Dana and Jared ... Dana is rich and she has issues about dating boys poorer than she is. If Jared ever did get that job, Dana would throw things and howl, "Here we go again." Otherwise -- and I would sacrifice most of the teen villains for it -- this would make a good storyline. Let Terry compete with Jared for Dana's affection. The harder Terry works to rebuild his life, the less time he spends on her. This would be more realistic, and more interesting, than setting up Dana to be "stuck" with Terry. How many boys have made passes at Dana? Nelson, Patrick/Ratboy, J-Man, and Howard Groote. Terry would look pretty good compared to that. But that's taking the easy way out. Let Dana stay with Terry by choice, not default.

Oh well. Too late, the series is over.

Sigh. More board problems? Having trouble posting again.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by The Old Maid
Precisely. These things wouldn't be so noticeable if the series hadn't attempted to include every child in the city.

Oh, I see now. I thought your original observation was just that there seemed to be an anti-male bias in the way then guys of HHH are presented.

But now I understand that you've got deeper issues with the way the series chose to develop the characters and their social setting. Your diagnosis, if I understand it correctly: The show needed a high school setting (that's what the network wanted for purposes of audience demographics) and it needed villains. But the producers unwisely combined those 2 by having too many villains be high school students. That led to certain unfortunate but (mostly) unavoidable consequences: social and personal relationships that would have given Terry more depth were undeveloped, and the high school came to look like a breeding ground for freaks.

Wonderfully perceptive stuff, OM. (Can I call you "OM"? "Old Maid" sounds too denigrating for one so keen-eyed. ;) )

[The Old Maid]

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus


Wonderfully perceptive stuff, OM. (Can I call you "OM"? "Old Maid" sounds too denigrating for one so keen-eyed. ;) )

You're too kind :) Yes, that's fine.

I think what we've seen in the series, besides its obsession with teens, is a prejudice rather than a planned strategy. Man-bashing is to be expected in "Harley and Ivy" or "Batman returns" since that is the primary motive for the characters. In "Beyond," bad-teenage-male seems to be the default setting. If it's not one of the Big Five (Inque, Curare, Spellbinder, Shriek, or Mad Stan), it's probably a BTM. One wonders, though, why this is so ingrained into the writers' psyches. It's almost as though changing the default setting is too much work. Off-hand I can't even recall the name of a female teen villain.

On the other hand, I shouldn't have to, since Terry should be fighting the Big Five anyway.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by The Old Maid
Off-hand I can't even recall the name of a female teen villain.

Well, there is Melanie of the Royal Flush Gang. But I think she proves the truth of your observation. She is treated with a lot more sympathy than the typical BTM, and her trajectory (from supervillain to reform candidate) is the exact opposite of "Big Time" Bigelow's (reform candidate to supervillain).

Blade isn't a pleasant person, but she's no worse that Nelson.