Episode 2: Wait a sec'!

[JustJack]

In Star Wars: Episode 1, Obi-Wan not only loses his blue lightsaber, but then picks up Qui-Gon's Green Lightsaber, & slashes Maul in half with it. If you're Star Wars illiterate, let me explain something to you: Lightsabers are sort of a way of describing rank. Archetypically, Blue is a color of youth, innocence, goodness, etc. Thus, blue light sabers are granted to the "rookie" Jedi(As Obi-Wan was in Episode 1). Green is a color of growth & fertility. Wisdom, strength, etc., & thus is granted to the "Jedi-masters"(Such as Qui-Gon was). In Episode 1, Obi-Wan using Qui's green saber was supposed to be a symbol of his final "coming of age-test", & his resurrection into becoming a Jedi-Master. So, at the end of Ep.1, no matter how you slice it, & you can argue many different points, BUT, in the end, Obi-Wan was the teacher(and thus, should have the green saber), & Anakin was the new-rookie(and thus, he gets the blue).

BUT, I see a problem with this. In Episode 2, all pictures of Obi-Wan thus far(including his action figures), he has his blue light saber again. WHY? He's the teacher/master. & even if he didn't keep Qui's saber, I would imagine that he'd still build his new saber to be of the same grade as the "jedi-masters".

I was talking about this to a teacher at my school, close friend & MAJOR Star Wars buff, & he agreed with me that Obi-Wan SHOULD technically have a green light saber.

BTW, to anyone who's curious: Archetypically, Red is the color of murder & death(blood), & thus why all Sith have Red lightsabers. Purple is a color of royalty & high power, & thus why the Jedi Council will have Purple Lightsabers(That includes Sammy "Mace Windu" Jackson, & most probably Yoda..who does fight in this one!).

[Jedi Knight]

It seems that almost EVERYONE thinks that the colors mean something. George Lucas himseld has said that the colors have absolutely NO significance at all. The only thing to note is that red means bad guy (Sith) while green and blue are good guys (Jedi). The purple saber for Mace is in Episode II only because Samuel L. Jackson asked for it.

In Episode II, Obi-Wan and Anakin use both a green and blue lightsaber, because they both end up losing their lightsabers near the end of the movie and have to pick up new ones. (I can't say too much more without spoiling stuff)

In conclusion: There is NO significance to the colors, it's just the fanboys that got carried away trying to look for stuff that wasn't there.

[Calhoun07]

Isn't there specific instructions on how to build light sabers somewhere in Star Wars lore? And if I recall right, the color depends more on the crystals the Jedi uses in the creation of his own light saber than it does for rank. I agree that rank was never intended to be part of this. Couldn't we just as easilly see yellow and orange light sabers?

[RockItShipper]

Or pink. :p

[GL2k2]

I am a huge Star Wars fan and a member of the Jedi Council practically. The fact is that George Lucas killed those rumors in an interview along time ago. The colors mean nothing really.

The rumor use to be as I remember, that young jedi received blue sabers then when learned a green saber. Sith received red then purple. The ultimate would be white, I guess Yoda would be the only one capable of having this. It supposedly also had something to do with how much force you had. But it is all bull.

Now, who wants to know the ending of episodes two and three?

[SpaceCub]

All I heard was that all Jedi must make their own lightsabers. So the colors could vary.

---
"I've been waiting for this, Solo"
"Yeah, I bet you have"

[JustJack]

hahaha, I already know the endings to Episodes 2 & 3.

Yeah, I do understand Lucas did debunk those rumors long ago, but STILL...isn't it odd that Star Wars is possibly THE MOST Archetypically correct movie, EVER? Honestly..I've done my research, & it's practically flawless as far as the Archetype code goes. (I can probably explain any "anti-archetype" arguement out there..)

[mistah_j]

The technical explaination of the saber color is that the focusing gem used in the saber determines the color. There are several types of gems that can be used, and they all produce different colors. Each individual gem produces a unque color shade. And aJedi must build their own saber, and find their own gem to put in it. Hopes this helps.

[Lucky Bob]

Why don't you try looking on the imdb (http://us.imdb.com/Trivia?0121765)? They had someting to say about lightsaber colors.

[Jedigreedo]

Obi-Wan I don't doubt would rebuild his lightsaber between 1 & 2. It wouldn't be very Jedi of him to use Qui-Gon's lightsaber, especially after becoming a Master of a Padawan learner, plus if you were Obi-Wan and could come up with something as cool as the one he had in Episode 1, wouldn't you be building another nifty one instead of sticking with Qui-Gon's quite dull one? :D

[GL2k2]

I think the only thing Lucas mentioned about colors was the contrast of Luke's clothing and Vader metallic black. Also he explained why Han Solo is wearing black and white, we aren't really to trust Solo in the first movie. He deserted Luke, but came back when he needed him. I found this very, very intriguing. We have all been Solo, the undecided person who doesn't care either way.

[Mattashell]

Umm... Haven't any of you seen the original Star Wars(episode IV)? Obi Wan had a blue light saber, and it takes place after episodes I-III. We never saw a green one until Return of the Jedi. If Obi Wan would ever have a green, he would have had it by then.

So why doesn't Qui-Gon's body vanish after he dies? :confused:

[DR. BELCH]

I'm reminded of Crystal Line by Anne McCaffrey, which deals with futuristic crystal harvesters. According to the book, light-colored crystals (like pink) are considered near-worthless, but the darker ones, like green, violet, and black (the rarest) are like gold to us. Maybe the lassie is an SF nut.... :rolleyes:

Now if you consider Jedi-ism (for lack of a better term) a martial art, then the sword color would be equivalent to the belt colors--white for rookies, black for most advanced, and colors like yellow and red and green and orange are intermediates. But from what I see here, that's reading too much into an arbitrary thing. I take it if a Knight wished, he could stick two small crystals into his sword and get a bi-color beam. Now that'd be a cool effect. Maybe a maverick Jedi--the Fett of Knights--would try something like that.... ;)

Also, the way the light spectrum is, certain colors vibrate at different intensities. I forget which color goes at what, but it would follow that darker (or higher) colors would be preferred for cutting strength. So perhaps that's why the big guys use purple, because it vibrates faster (or slower) and takes a practiced hand to manage it.

[RockItShipper]

Anakin Skywalker's body has to be burned as well. I think any Jedi who has experienced romantic love or focused on the here and now (like Qui-Gon) does leave something behind, because they never fully gave into the Force.

[Bird Boy]

Originally posted by RockItShipper
Anakin Skywalker's body has to be burned as well. I think any Jedi who has experienced romantic love or focused on the here and now (like Qui-Gon) does leave something behind, because they never fully gave into the Force.

hmmm...that could be right. I always figured it was because Qui and Darth weren't pre-pared to die, like Obi and Yoda were...

As for the lightsaber thing, I think that's been answered already, so I'll just be quiet.. :D

-BB

[RockItShipper]

Originally posted by Bird Boy


hmmm...that could be right. I always figured it was because Qui and Darth weren't pre-pared to die, like Obi and Yoda were...


Someone fully tuned into the force may not feel they're going to die any minute, but they've grasped the concept of it better and see it as not that much of a problem- if only out of pure trust in the Force.
Qui-Gon doesn't become a ghost (as far as I know) but Anakin did. And that may be the result of what kind of death each died. Qui-Gon was killed by a Sith apprentice. And from "a certain point of view", Anakin Skywalker gave his life to defeating the Sith Master and Apprentice for good. But who knows? I just know Qui-Gon Jinn was one of a group of Jedi to leave the order over its history. He may pop up as a ghost yet.

[DR. BELCH]

So the Emporer wasn't far wrong in calling the Force a "religion", in that one had to be committed to it completely, much like a priest. Those who marry outside this religion, so to speak, forfeit some sort of ultimate reward.
So what of Luke, when he dies? I mean, he has nothing in terms of material possessions, but the vengance in his soul might keep him from ascending to that higher plane...unless that was purged when he discovered the truth about his father and later watched him die. Or does having these thoughts to begin with taint him forever?

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Mattashell


So why doesn't Qui-Gon's body vanish after he dies? :confused:

Supposedly this will be explained in Ep 2 or 3.

[TheHuntressDiana]

I'm going to agree with you both (Bird Boy & RockItShipper)...but only to a point with you Rock. :)

I'm still in agreement that Qui-Gon wasn't prepared to die just yet. He so strongly believed that Anakin was the chosen one and wanted to train him. That makes me think that he wasn't so prepared to die for the Force...not just yet anyway.

And like you said Rock, Qui-Gon may still come back as a ghostly spirit, or maybe just a voice in Obi-Wan's head...or maybe even Anakin's. Who's to say except for George Lucas? :)

As for Anakin not "disappearing" at the end of RotJ...I'd say a lot of that had to do with the fact that a lot of his body was now more machine than flesh & blood.


The lightsaber blade colors...I say that's just up to each individual when they go into the cave (read "Jedi Quest - Path to Truth" by Jude Watson, it's a young adult book, if you'd like to know more; 170 pgs) to build their lightsaber.

However, in the Expanded Star Wars Universe (the novels) there are all colors of the rainbow in saber blades, even multi-colored blades.

[RockItShipper]

Originally posted by DR. BELCH
So the Emporer wasn't far wrong in calling the Force a "religion", in that one had to be committed to it completely, much like a priest. Those who marry outside this religion, so to speak, forfeit some sort of ultimate reward.

I'm not even sure Jedi/Jedi relationships are encouraged. Ultimate rewards are pretty much rhetoric and not that easy to prove. Religion is pretty close as a metaphor, but sensitivity to the Force is more about DNA and midichlorian counts... And it's possible for peeps like that not to be Jedi, or even Sith. Maybe even Force-skeptics who interpret their abilities as some sort of insight.


So what of Luke, when he dies? I mean, he has nothing in terms of material possessions, but the vengance in his soul might keep him from ascending to that higher plane...unless that was purged when he discovered the truth about his father and later watched him die. Or does having these thoughts to begin with taint him forever?

I think it was pretty much purged when Luke refused to fight... I think by refusing to act on his feelings was where Luke succeeded and Anakin was inspired to follow that example.

I think Luke'll take on the duty of guiding future Jedi as a ghost, like Obi-Wan and Yoda... Whereas Leia may well study as a Jedi, but also have kids who will end up as Jedi too.

Of course, all this goes into the toilet if you read the novels. I pretty much consider them as not being canon. I have plenty of Fett's return scenarios of my own, anyway.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by TheHuntressDiana
As for Anakin not "disappearing" at the end of RotJ...I'd say a lot of that had to do with the fact that a lot of his body was now more machine than flesh & blood.

All we see is the body armor, so how do we know that the body didn't disappear?

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by DR. BELCH
So the Emporer wasn't far wrong in calling the Force a "religion", in that one had to be committed to it completely, much like a priest.

When did the Emperor call the Force a religion?

[DR. BELCH]

DarkAngel: When did the Emperor call the Force a religion?
My memory's fuzzy because it's been a while since I watched Star Wars--but one of Vader's superiors, if not the Emporer, sneers at Vader for still being beholden to the Force, calling it an antiquated "religion". I think that's the word he used. Darth obviously takes deep offense, though he's practiced a bastardized form of his "faith" for some years now, far different from his mentors....

[RockItShipper]

Admiral Motti called the Force an antiquated religion. I'm guessing that Motti missed the memo about the Emperor being a Force User, SW sequels weren't planned yet, or that Palpatine's real identity wasn't widely known.

When Obi-Wan put down his sword, he knew Darth would strike him down. Do you really think Anakin was that prepared when he chucked the Emperor down the shaft?

[Mattashell]

Vader does disapear. It happens on screen. Only the mechanical part/suit was burned.

[TheHuntressDiana]

Originally posted by Mattashell
Vader does disapear. It happens on screen. Only the mechanical part/suit was burned.

Are you sure?

Usually the "fade" happens almost instantly and I don't really remember the head disappearing off the top of the body armor...

[Anyone00]

midichlorian counts

:mad: :mad: :mad: NEVER SPEEK OF THOSE AGAIN, WTF WAS LUCAS THINKING WHEN HE SCREWED OVER THE ENTIRE MYSTICAL ASPECT OF THE FORCE? :mad: :mad: :mad:

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by DR. BELCH

My memory's fuzzy because it's been a while since I watched Star Wars--but one of Vader's superiors, if not the Emporer, sneers at Vader for still being beholden to the Force, calling it an antiquated "religion".

Ok, I know what you're talking about. Would the rest of you say the Force is a religion? I've never felt that way, but on another message board, this guy was insisting that Sith and Jedi are religions. The discussion came about because I referred to the Empire as a Sith Empire. He basically said that was nonsense because the Empire was not a theocracy. He (and others) seemed to believe that the Emperor being a force user was only known to a select few and that the Empire was a "normal" empire that just happened to have Sith Lord as it's ruler.

I'm not willing to accept that, but what do the rest of you think? It seems to me that Palpatine being a Sith had everything to do with the formation of the Empire and that the Empire didn't have to be a theocracy to be a Sith Empire.

[Morgan Sloat]

Originally posted by RockItShipper
...SW sequels weren't planned yet, or...

The whole story was thought out before he even penned it out. So thats not it.

[Mattashell]

Originally posted by TheHuntressDiana


Are you sure?

Usually the "fade" happens almost instantly and I don't really remember the head disappearing off the top of the body armor...

I admit that I haven't seen the movie in a while, but I am almost possitive.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by TheHuntressDiana


Are you sure?

Usually the "fade" happens almost instantly and I don't really remember the head disappearing off the top of the body armor...

You're correct - when he dies in Luke's arms on the shuttle ramp, he does not disappear.

[DR. BELCH]

Morgan Sloat:
The whole story was thought out before he even penned it out. So thats not it.
But what of Luke and Leia's sibcestous kiss in the original movie, which seemed conveniently forgotten by two sequels later? I'm more inclined to think--as a writer myself--that Lucas had a rough skeleton of a plot planned for the trilogy, but most of the fleshing-out was done later. It's very impractical, for my money, to begin writing with a concrete, unchanging story in mind. A forty- or fifty-K-word novellette undergoes serious edits between page one and page two hundred and one; imagine how much Lucas' original vision permutated on a project this big in scope.

[RockItShipper]

It's my perception that the twins thing was decided by the end of the ESB shoot, because the editting goes right from "there is another" to Leia.

Here's a few things I know were changed: The start of ESB, because of Mark Hamill's car accident prior to filming. The Wampa incident allowed for Mark to heal on-camera, so to speak. I think the twins thing may not have been realized until the editting stage, because the real hint comes in going from Yoda revealing that there's someone besides Luke- and a direct cut to Leia.

In ROTJ, Han is bugging Lando about taking care of the Millenium Falcon... and then sensing he'll never see it again. So is he afraid that Lando'll have one too many Colt 45s and crash the ship? No, it was meant to foreshadow that the Falcon and its crew get blown up.... Something that didn't go well in test screenings and was removed. Lando's appearance in the final group shot is one of those things- as BDW filmed his part later as result of the changes.

[oranthal]

although Leia has Jedi blood, i don't think she has it in her to become a Jedi. i never read the novels so i don't know if she ever became one or show any inclination of becoming one.

[TheHuntressDiana]

Originally posted by oranthal
although Leia has Jedi blood, i don't think she has it in her to become a Jedi. i never read the novels so i don't know if she ever became one or show any inclination of becoming one.

Oh, she has it in her to become a Jedi...at least according to the "Expanded Universe" of books and comics. She'll probably never become a "great Jedi" like some of the others who've come out after the death of the Emperor, but she's definately got enough Force ability to be classified as Jedi.

She's got more of the "counselor" abilities of a Jedi than most I would say. She uses her past experiences of working in Politics and combines that with what she's able to sense in/through the Force. And when it comes to her children, she's able to feel them and what's happening/happened to them through the Force.

She's not bad with a lightsaber either. :)

You see that little bit of something when she's talking with Luke outside on Endor before he goes to turn himself in to Vader.