JL Flash has superstrength apparantly

[Frank White]

I don't if this was addressed in the Brave and Bold talkback thread but in pt.1 if you look closely when Flash takes the gun from the scientist he crumples it up quite easily

[GL2k2]

This was a long time controversy right up there with who is faster, Superman or Flash, who's stronger Hulk or Superman? The fact of the matter is, if you really sat down and thought about it, the Flash has the one superpower you would really want if you could get. Facts:

You have superspeed ergo can save time and move faster than others can. We all could use that. No car = no gas money, = no bus fare, = getting home from work earlier = probably working two jobs at the same exact time... it's almost endless.

You can conceal you identity exactly like Jay Garrick did.

Moving fast also can in some way make you invisible.

You can almost fly, but not for long distances, but hey then again if you can flap your arms fast enough maybe you can. With enough momentum who knows.

You can speed up your strength. This is the answer to the question, and it is "YES". If a car is dormant on the road it can not hurt anyone. If it is going down hill and you're in front of it, it wil hurt you. If someone hits you with a ball, it can hurt. If your in front of one of those tennis ball guns, speed will hurt you very bad. Just as simple as Superman drilling into the ground, with superspeed your atoms are accelerated to the point where you are indeed, only when applied, stronger. Any questions.

[stwasm]

Originally posted by GL2k2
This was a long time controversy right up there with who is faster, Superman or Flash, who's stronger Hulk or Superman? The fact of the matter is, if you really sat down and thought about it, the Flash has the one superpower you would really want if you could get. Facts:

You have superspeed ergo can save time and move faster than others can. We all could use that. No car = no gas money, = no bus fare, = getting home from work earlier = probably working two jobs at the same exact time... it's almost endless.

You can conceal you identity exactly like Jay Garrick did.

Moving fast also can in some way make you invisible.

You can almost fly, but not for long distances, but hey then again if you can flap your arms fast enough maybe you can. With enough momentum who knows.

You can speed up your strength. This is the answer to the question, and it is "YES". If a car is dormant on the road it can not hurt anyone. If it is going down hill and you're in front of it, it wil hurt you. If someone hits you with a ball, it can hurt. If your in front of one of those tennis ball guns, speed will hurt you very bad. Just as simple as Superman drilling into the ground, with superspeed your atoms are accelerated to the point where you are indeed, only when applied, stronger. Any questions.

Good points all the way around, especially the last sentence. But, please refresh my memory on something. How did Jay Garrick conceal his secret identity?

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by stwasm

How did Jay Garrick conceal his secret identity?

He vibrated his face at superspeed so that it looked blurry.

[DarkLantern]

Originally posted by GL2k2
You can speed up your strength. This is the answer to the question, and it is "YES". If a car is dormant on the road it can not hurt anyone. If it is going down hill and you're in front of it, it wil hurt you. If someone hits you with a ball, it can hurt. If your in front of one of those tennis ball guns, speed will hurt you very bad. Just as simple as Superman drilling into the ground, with superspeed your atoms are accelerated to the point where you are indeed, only when applied, stronger. Any questions.

No questions, but more answers.

Sorry to play science professor here, but it’s really not a matter of “speeding up strength”, but increasing force.

No, not the “speed force”. Force-force. As in:

Force = Mass times acceleration.

This is why a tennis ball from a “serving machine” hurts more than one thrown by my 2-year old nephew. Increased acceleration leads to increased force, which leads to increased pain.

Oh, and mass isn’t the same as weight. But the quantity of matter in an object (despite its volume). Also known as “inertial mass”, which is an object’s resistance to acceleration by an external force. When the “external force” being applied is the force of gravity, you can use weight to calculate mass -- but they are, again, not the same thing.

But my main point here is another little ditty I have been reminded of in my decades of reading Flash comics. Einstein’s special theory of relativity suggests that inertial mass increases with speed. Which makes sense. With my strength of an average human I can push a stopped car backwards (with gear in neutral of course) a lot easier than pushing back a car travelling forwards at 90 mph (kids, don’t try that at home). This is one of the reasons an object in motion tends to stay in motion.

Now don’t ask me to explain where the extra mass comes from -- it involves energy conversion and is a tad complicated, and it’s all still theory anyways, so my explanation has a slim chance of not being true.

But if it is true, then that means that the Flash’s mass increases with speed. and with increased mass comes increased force. Enough force to tear a gun apart, or to lift and push a 400-plus pound gorilla several city blocks.

And thus ends today’s lesson.

Dr. Dark Lantern

---
"That's pretty fast."
“Fastest man alive...”
“Which might explain why you can’t get a date.”

[warmachine04]

He didn't crush but merely disassembled it.

[GL2k2]

Originally posted by DarkLantern


No questions, but more answers.

Sorry to play science professor here, but it’s really not a matter of “speeding up strength”, but increasing force.

No, not the “speed force”. Force-force. As in:

Force = Mass times acceleration.

This is why a tennis ball from a “serving machine” hurts more than one thrown by my 2-year old nephew. Increased acceleration leads to increased force, which leads to increased pain.

Oh, and mass isn’t the same as weight. But the quantity of matter in an object (despite its volume). Also known as “inertial mass”, which is an object’s resistance to acceleration by an external force. When the “external force” being applied is the force of gravity, you can use weight to calculate mass -- but they are, again, not the same thing.

But my main point here is another little ditty I have been reminded of in my decades of reading Flash comics. Einstein’s special theory of relativity suggests that inertial mass increases with speed. Which makes sense. With my strength of an average human I can push a stopped car backwards (with gear in neutral of course) a lot easier than pushing back a car travelling forwards at 90 mph (kids, don’t try that at home). This is one of the reasons an object in motion tends to stay in motion.

Now don’t ask me to explain where the extra mass comes from -- it involves energy conversion and is a tad complicated, and it’s all still theory anyways, so my explanation has a slim chance of not being true.

But if it is true, then that means that the Flash’s mass increases with speed. and with increased mass comes increased force. Enough force to tear a gun apart, or to lift and push a 400-plus pound gorilla several city blocks.

And thus ends today’s lesson.

Dr. Dark Lantern


Yes, this deserves the gookie. :wakko:

Just kidding, thanks for clearing it up.

[Barb Gordon]

Lol, this was like a physics/science class made fun all rolled into one, how awesome! I'd wondered this question myself from time to time, but figured it just had something to do with Flash being able to move so fast. The explanations both of you gave were so great though, I just have to say bravo.

Barb^-^

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by DarkLantern


No questions, but more answers.

Sorry to play science professor here, but it’s really not a matter of “speeding up strength”, but increasing force.

No, not the “speed force”. Force-force. As in:

Force = Mass times acceleration.

This is why a tennis ball from a “serving machine” hurts more than one thrown by my 2-year old nephew. Increased acceleration leads to increased force, which leads to increased pain.

Oh, and mass isn’t the same as weight. But the quantity of matter in an object (despite its volume). Also known as “inertial mass”, which is an object’s resistance to acceleration by an external force. When the “external force” being applied is the force of gravity, you can use weight to calculate mass -- but they are, again, not the same thing.

But my main point here is another little ditty I have been reminded of in my decades of reading Flash comics. Einstein’s special theory of relativity suggests that inertial mass increases with speed. Which makes sense. With my strength of an average human I can push a stopped car backwards (with gear in neutral of course) a lot easier than pushing back a car travelling forwards at 90 mph (kids, don’t try that at home). This is one of the reasons an object in motion tends to stay in motion.

Now don’t ask me to explain where the extra mass comes from -- it involves energy conversion and is a tad complicated, and it’s all still theory anyways, so my explanation has a slim chance of not being true.

But if it is true, then that means that the Flash’s mass increases with speed. and with increased mass comes increased force. Enough force to tear a gun apart, or to lift and push a 400-plus pound gorilla several city blocks.

And thus ends today’s lesson.

Dr. Dark Lantern

---
"That's pretty fast."
“Fastest man alive...”
“Which might explain why you can’t get a date.”

Basically, you have the right ideas, but...the thing is, inertial mass does not increase by any measureable amount until you get up to very, very high speeds. Speeds that are much greater than those that the Flash of the JL cartoon is achieving. The equation for the change in mass with speed is:

m=m0/ sqrt(1-(v^2/c^2)

Even assuming that the JL Flash can reach the speed of sound, which would have him covering 343 meters/second ( equal to 1125.33 feet/second, which seems much faster than he currently moves) there is no significant change in the mass. The change is so small, it doesn't even show up on my good ole TI-82 calculator.

When Flash hits something at an increased speed, he still hits it with increased force. We can see this by calculating his Kinetic Energy, the ability of an object to do work through it's speed. K.E.= .5mass*velocity^2. Since K.E.=force*distance, we can see that over a given distance, a greater velocity creates greater force. However, according to Newton's Third Law of Motion, any force that is exerted on a body is countered by an equal and opposite force.

The reason why Newton's Third Law creates a problem can best be explained by thinking of a thick concrete wall. There is a thick concrete wall next to me, and if I hit it very, very slowly with my fist, it doesn't hurt at all. If I use all of my strength to hit the wall as fast as I can, it will hurt my fist. And if I were to put myself into a cannon and launch myself at the wall fist-first...well, my fist wouldn't look very nice, not to mention the rest of my body.


Originally posted by DarkLantern

Einstein’s special theory of relativity suggests that inertial mass increases with speed. Which makes sense. With my strength of an average human I can push a stopped car backwards (with gear in neutral of course) a lot easier than pushing back a car travelling forwards at 90 mph (kids, don’t try that at home).

That doesn't have to do with the car's inertial mass increasing, it has to do with the fact that the car is acting with a force in the direction opposite to the one that you want to move it in. If you wanted to push a car in one direction, and the car was driving in that direction already, and you just had to put your hands on the car as it moved that way, would you argue that the car was lighter than it was at rest? ;)


Short answer: No super-strength for Flash.
Anyways, I like to think that Flash disassembled the gun at super-speed. I don't have a good explanation for him carrying the big gorilla.

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by Joe Tully
Anyways, I like to think that Flash disassembled the gun at super-speed. I don't have a good explanation for him carrying the big gorilla. Short answer: Heroite. :p

Long answer: It would be like your average human (assuming that the human is in good physical condition) packing 200 - 250 pound pack and running a few blocks. I'd guess that the Flash is in excellent physical shape due to constant use of his powers, so as such he could probably handle more. Besides Flash only moved Salvor (sp?) a few blocks to get both of them out of danger, and Flash was clearly winded afterward, and we're not factoring in the possibility of adrenaline. Basically Flash did what any average human could do, with the possible aid of adrenaline, but only at super speed.

[I.R Joey]

It's a matter of simple physics, and weight distribution, he just had to run and hold one part of his body for about 4 seconds.

[grim15]

lol?????//////

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by I.R Joey
It's a matter of simple physics, and weight distribution, he just had to run and hold one part of his body for about 4 seconds.

That doesn't make any sense. It's vague, and the part about "only one part of his body" both doesn't make sense and would actually make it harder to carry Salvor. It should be easier to carry someone by putting your arms underneath them than by lugging them around by their pinky. I think Mr. Obsession's answer is the best one we'll come up with.

[I.R Joey]

It's not crazy, it's the same prinicple that a martial arts master might use to throw somebody who's alot heavier then them, all you need is to get them of balance for a little bit, and it wouldn't be that hard and all.

[Joe Tully]

Okay, I understand what you're trying to say now. But, would something like that count for carrying someone? Throwing someone and carrying them are different things. When you throw someone, like you say, it depends on whether they are off balance, so you can use their own momentum against them. That's something that isn't possible in the case of carrying something. If you were throwing someone, you could theoretically use their arm as a lever and use something like your shoulder as a fulcrum, which you couldn't really do if you were carrying them.

Also, it looked like Flash just carried Salvor in both of his arms. :yakko:

[I.R Joey]

He was off balance, they did show that.