Captain America Animated Series

[beyond94]

With the new movie coming this month wish looks to be a lot better than Thor and X-Men First Class I feel it's time for Captain America to have his own animated series prior to him as a regular on Avengers. The art design for Cap should be based on John Romita Sr. and Joe Sinnott. Together, those legendary artists to me made Captain America one my most beloved Marvel heroes. Jerome K. Moore could bring their designs to animation life. MOI animation should do the series over Film Roman that does Avengers. I'm not a fan of their animation but I enjoyed their season storyline. I hope that Captain America finally gets his own animated series and becomes Marvel's new main marquis character over Spider-Man and X-Men just as Batman is DC main marquis character over Superman.Captain America deserves his time in the spotlight.

[Medinnus]

Once upon a time, in the dawn of antiquity, I did an outline for five seasons of thirteen episodes of Captain America (http://www.medinnus.com/winghead/ca_an.html); I'd doubtless do it somewhat differently today, though, especially if it was going to be a part of a consistent animated universe which included the AEMH

[suss2it]

I haven't read any solo Captain America comic-books, though I have heard good things about Brubaker's run and I do plan on eventually picking it up, but I'd still watch a Captain America cartoon. He's been pretty cool in Ultimate Avengers and EMH so I wouldn't be opposed to seeing more of him. And I'm interested in how he would work without a team-setting.

And if anything Phil Bourassa would be the better choice over Jerome K. Moore since all of Moore's stuff so far has just been in the style of Bourassa.

[supergirl's pal]

I'll watch the show only if Sharon Carter and Sin are in it.

[Venom Melendez]

I'd doubt it would happen any time soon though. Seeing as he already has a recurring role in the Avengers cartoon.

[suss2it]

I'd doubt it would happen any time soon though. Seeing as he already has a recurring role in the Avengers cartoon.So does Iron Man, and yet he has the Iron Man Anime as well as Iron Man: Armored Adventures.

[BigEclipse]

There were plans for a Cap series back in the 90s. There's even test animation floating around somewhere. Probably won't be hard to find.

[TheVileOne]

I think as of right now a Captain America series is a little redundant, the same as a Thor series because they are both lead characters in Avengers which is continuing. I think if the live action movie depending how much of a hit it is would probably warrant a new animation or an animated series. We shall see. I mean it made sense to start seeing all the Iron Man animation we have.

[Monte]

eh, I have a tough time imagining a Captain America series. Mainly because i don't really picture him as a solo hero. I see him more like a leader and a team player. He just feels so much more at home with a team like the avengers

[Rick Jones]

I'd love to see something animated that focused solely on Cap but right now, I'd prefer something like one (or two) well done dtv(s) or a six-episode mini-series to an ongoing series. I just think things should be kept concise. With the right creative team (and budget), I think that could be incredible.

[Medinnus]

I'd love to see something animated that focused solely on Cap but right now, I'd prefer something like one (or two) well done dtv(s) or a six-episode mini-series to an ongoing series. I just think things should be kept concise. With the right creative team (and budget), I think that could be incredible.

I'd rather just see a series of movie-length features than an actual series - better for plotting.

[TheVileOne]

Well Cap was already a featured character in the DTV Ultimate Avengers flicks from a few years back. So I mean you have that and you have the new Avengers cartoon. I think Avengers should run its course first before looking at a Cap series or animation.

[Medinnus]

Well Cap was already a featured character in the DTV Ultimate Avengers flicks from a few years back. So I mean you have that and you have the new Avengers cartoon. I think Avengers should run its course first before looking at a Cap series or animation.

*shrugs* That same logic applies to Spider-Man, the X-franchise, and Iron Man.

No, I think that there are a lot of really good CA solo(ish) stories which could be told. His exposure in Ultimates and Ultimates 2, and in AEMH shouldn't restrain him from having his own series or series of OAVs any more than because Spider Man or the X-men have had several series each that those characters should be put on hiatus.

"Quick, cancel Iron Man Adventures - Season Two! Stark has already had his own series, two live-action movies, and is featured in AEMH!" - nah, don't think so.

[capfan1]

It's about time Cap got his own series..really tired of the same old spidey series,x-men,fantastic four.Cap has been around a very long time and is considered one of marvel's top heroes.He is clearly dc's Batman and deserves his own spotlight.I'm only for it if they make it similar to AEMH and not stupid 3d like armored adventures.Once the movie becomes the biggest hit this summer maybe marvel will bring it on,after all he will have his own video game too.

[suss2it]

It's about time Cap got his own series..really tired of the same old spidey series,x-men,fantastic four.Cap has been around a very long time and is considered one of marvel's top heroes.He is clearly dc's Batman and deserves his own spotlight.I'm only for it if they make it similar to AEMH and not stupid 3d like armored adventures.Once the movie becomes the biggest hit this summer maybe marvel will bring it on,after all he will have his own video game too.DC's Batman in terms of what? If it's popularity, he's not since the most popular Marvel characters are Spider-Man, Wolverine, the X-Men and Iron Man. Hulk is also probably more popular than Captain America. If it's in terms of in-universe role I'd say he's closer to DC's Superman than Batman.

[Medinnus]

DC's Batman in terms of what? If it's popularity, he's not since the most popular Marvel characters are Spider-Man, Wolverine, the X-Men and Iron Man. Hulk is also probably more popular than Captain America. If it's in terms of in-universe role I'd say he's closer to DC's Superman than Batman.

Well, he's the Batman analogue in terms of being max. human development (of course, Bruce did it the hard way) and penultimate combat tactician/melee operative.

He's much closer to Superman in terms of attitude.

[Taskmaster]

It's about time Cap got his own series..really tired of the same old spidey series,x-men,fantastic four.Cap has been around a very long time and is considered one of marvel's top heroes.He is clearly dc's Batman and deserves his own spotlight.I'm only for it if they make it similar to AEMH and not stupid 3d like armored adventures.Once the movie becomes the biggest hit this summer maybe marvel will bring it on,after all he will have his own video game too.

You and "Medinnus" are right on the money the burn out on all things Spider-man, Wolverine/X-Men, FF, Hulk, and now Iron Man is really hitting it's apex. But I've been saying this since the 80s. A Cap animated series is such a no-brainer it's frightening. Not only has his fantastic Cap-verse and rogues not been focused on extensively in any incarnation of the MAU but Cap is THE conduit to the major heavyweights in the Marvel U for legit high stakes guest spots.

-Spidey and the Parker parents/Red Skull connection.

-Wolverine and WW2

-Hulk and Rick Jones (or the SSS in Ult verse)

-Iron Man obviously and all their major history

-Daredevil with Black Widow and "Streets of Poison"

-Namor and The Invaders

-All the BLACK heroes love Cap like Black Panther, Falcon, Cage etc for racial diversity sakes.

etc etc etc

Cap and Iron Man are the Batman and Superman of Marvel and like Medinus said Steve Rogers is ALL the best qualities of Batman and Superman rolled into one. So much so all the writers and editors chose him the leader during the JLA/Avengers crossover.

Cap has never been bigger in modern times and the film will prove this, it's time to give the man his own animated series. No hero has earned it more ESPECIALLY after Marvel went bankrupt as soon as his late 90's/early2000s was to launch (and the series of the opening teaser looked great btw). That needs to be redeemed and fast.

[Rick Jones]

-All the BLACK heroes love Cap like Black Panther, Falcon, Cage etc for racial diversity sakes.
Please avoid making any blanketed racial statements like this.

[beyond94]

If Cap does have his own series, I see no reason why Brian Bloom should remain as his voice. His tones reminds me a lot of Sandy Becker who first voice Captain America in 1966 on the Marvel Superheroes animated show. Brian does an excellent job and as just as good as Josh Keaton's voice is to Spider-Man.

[Medinnus]

He's a good Cap voice, I agree.

[suss2it]

I only know two Cap voices, Bloom and Justin Gross from the Ultimate Avengers, and between the two I definitely think Bloom is the better Cap. Although I wouldn't be against new talent being brought in to voice him in this hypothetical series or new animation unrelated to ​EMH.

[TheVileOne]

There's also that guy who goes by the name of David Hayter. You all might have heard of him ;) . From the 1990's Spider-Man animated series, he voiced Cap.

[Aaron]

There were plans for a Cap series back in the 90s. There's even test animation floating around somewhere. Probably won't be hard to find.

I do believe this is the animation test you're referring to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd7VinvTfiw


I only know two Cap voices, Bloom and Justin Gross from the Ultimate Avengers, and between the two I definitely think Bloom is the better Cap. Although I wouldn't be against new talent being brought in to voice him in this hypothetical series or new animation unrelated to ​EMH.


There's also that guy who goes by the name of David Hayter. You all might have heard of him ;) . From the 1990's Spider-Man animated series, he voiced Cap.

True. David Hayter. Solid friggin' Snake. Did Cap on the 90s Spider-Man show, AND in X-Men Evolution!

There have been multiple voices for Captain America
Sandy Becker
George DiCenzo
Lawrence Bayne
David Hayter
Dan Chameroy
Justin Gross
Tom Kenny
Brian Bloom

[ktk]

I do believe this is the animation test you're referring to.

I hear the old GIJoe theme song in my head when I watch that.

[suss2it]

I do believe this is the animation test you're referring to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd7VinvTfiw





True. David Hayter. Solid friggin' Snake. Did Cap on the 90s Spider-Man show, AND in X-Men Evolution!

There have been multiple voices for Captain America
Sandy Becker
George DiCenzo
Lawrence Bayne
David Hayter
Dan Chameroy
Justin Gross
Tom Kenny
Brian BloomHaven't watched the 90s X-Men series so I never got to hear Hayter's Cap. And Captain America didn't utter a single word in Evolution​.

[W.C.Reaf]

Haven't watched the 90s X-Men series so I never got to hear Hayter's Cap. And Captain America didn't utter a single word in Evolution.

I find it funny that IMDB still lists Hayter as a voice for Cap in Evo, and has done for years. The most that Cap "spoke" in that episode was a grunt and they wouldn't pay Hayter just for a grunt.

[Monte]

Haven't watched the 90s X-Men series so I never got to hear Hayter's Cap. And Captain America didn't utter a single word in Evolution​.
Hayter was the Cap in the 90's spiderman, not the x-men
You can listen to a sample for all the Captain america's here (http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/voice-compare/Marvel-Universe/Captain-America/)

[suss2it]

Hayter was the Cap in the 90's spiderman, not the x-men
You can listen to a sample for all the Captain america's here (http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/voice-compare/Marvel-Universe/Captain-America/)That's an awesome website, and wow I didn't realize how many times Captain America has been voiced.

[Aaron]

Haven't watched the 90s X-Men series so I never got to hear Hayter's Cap. And Captain America didn't utter a single word in Evolution​.


I find it funny that IMDB still lists Hayter as a voice for Cap in Evo, and has done for years. The most that Cap "spoke" in that episode was a grunt and they wouldn't pay Hayter just for a grunt.

Maybe it was a sound clip of Hayter from the 90s show recycled?


Hayter was the Cap in the 90's spiderman, not the x-men
You can listen to a sample for all the Captain america's here (http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/voice-compare/Marvel-Universe/Captain-America/)

It has Arthur Pierce listed where I read Sandy Becker was the voice of the '66 animated Captain America.
Does anyone know what's up with that?

BTW,
here's another listing from the same site, that includes Chris Evans, as he'll be doing the voice in the upcoming game.
It also lists multiple appearances such as games and sequel movies, just so we can get a feel for how many times he's been given a voice, not just the number of actors.

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/characters/Marvel-Universe/Captain-America/

Enjoy!

[beyond94]

Sandy Becker who was the first and best Captain America voice was in '' Origin Of Captain America'' till his last one ''The Return Of The Red Skull''. Arthur Pierce took over the voice role in the rest of the episodes starting with ''Revenge Of Zemo''.

[JTMarsh]

I'd like to see Cap get his own show - but first we may have to wait and see how well his film does and see if that gives the character any leverage in getting a show of his own.

I liked Justin Gross as Cap in Ultimate Avengers, but Brian Bloom totally owns the role (he was also Ultraman in Justice League: Crisis on 2 Earths).

[beyond94]

Now that Captain America is doing phenomenally well at thebox office outdoing Harry Potter. Hopefully Eric Rollman and Jeph Loeb and the producers of Marvel animation will do a Captain America animated series for the fall of 2012.

[Medinnus]

Now that Captain America is doing phenomenally well at thebox office outdoing Harry Potter. Hopefully Eric Rollman and Jeph Loeb and the producers of Marvel animation will do a Captain America animated series for the fall of 2012.

*chuckles* Not going to happen. Marvel has its 2012 slate pretty well planned, and I don't think they'd do both Avengers and Cap (although they sure as heck should). In a way, the Avengers IS his series. )

But it bodes well that the CA:FA movie had a good opening. Maybe if its a good consistent earner we'll see something come of it :D

[Silverstar]

Now that Captain America is doing phenomenally well at thebox office outdoing Harry Potter. Hopefully Eric Rollman and Jeph Loeb and the producers of Marvel animation will do a Captain America animated series for the fall of 2012

2012 is only about 5 months away; if Marvel had a Captain America series lined up for next year, we'd have heard about it this year. Marvel isn't going to give Cap a solo series as long as he's a prominent player on Avengers: EMH, and it's just as well, since Cap seems to work best as part of a team.

The movie was great, don't get me wrong; I've never been the biggest Capt. America fan and I thought it was fantastic, but that wouldn't work every week. Cap's 'powers' are peak human physical abilities; he's basically a gold-medal athlete with an indestructible shield. Not a bad thing by any means, but not the most visually impressive set of abilities when put through the process of animation. There'd be no point in spinning Cap off into his own show set in the present day because in the present, he's an Avenger, and Marvel already has a show for that; and they couldn't set the series in WW2 because that's a finite story; WW2 can't go on forever, and at some point he'd have to get frozen. In a way, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes is Captain America's series.

[suss2it]

2012 is only about 5 months away; if Marvel had a Captain America series lined up for next year, we'd have heard about it this year. Marvel isn't going to give Cap a solo series as long as he's a prominent player on Avengers: EMH, and it's just as well, since Cap seems to work best as part of a team.Hulk is more of a prominent player on EMH than Cap is and he's getting his own series. As is Iron Man and he too has a solo series and a 12 episode long anime.

[Medinnus]

Hulk is more of a prominent player on EMH than Cap is and he's getting his own series. As is Iron Man and he too has a solo series and a 12 episode long anime.

The new Hulk series is, in many ways, just a continuation of the Marvel push to make the Hulk an A-class franchise; I don't see the appeal, myself. I like how they use him in AEMH, and I enjoyed him in the Defenders comic, but by and large the character has always failed to capture my imagination.

Iron Man is the Marvel star to be pushed, almost as much as Hulk has been; with Iron Man and Iron Man 2, along with the forthcoming Avengers movie and Iron Man 3, I don't see them not pushing Iron Man. Iron Man: Teen Tony is so different as to be an altogether different brand from AEMH Iron Man.

It will be curious to see if UItimate Spider-Man, and the Hulk SMASH series are set in the same continuity as AEMH. Half of me hopes so, as I'd love to see a well-rounded Marvel Animated Universe, half of me hopes not, as if additions to that universe suck...

When I say "Not going to happen" as regards 2012, I am just stating the obvious; with the anime, Iron Man: Teen Tony Season Two, Ultimate Spider-Man, and Avengers: EMH I don't see Marvel Studios having the resources to fast-track another series. I could easily be wrong, but (like most people) I don't think I am. :D

Marvel Studios has, for a loooong time, not pushed Captain America in the media, for whatever reason; the cancelled cartoons series when Marvel went bankrupt, the 1990 movie failure and the two horrible TV movies before it probably reinforced the idea that outside the USA, Captain America is more liability than anything else. Hopefully, the popularity of the character in AEMH and the CA: FA movie will help turn that around, but its hard to shake people out of "what they know", even with facts and sales figures (and I haven't seen any sales figures for the movie outside the USA).

I think Captain America could easily support his own show, given the wide variety of supporting cast and plots one could play with, even with him still as a "player" in the AEMH. The question is whether TPTB at Marvel think so, and have the will to do it. At this point, I think they remain unconvinced, and even if they were, have too many balls in the air to do much with it until 2013 or later.

[capfan1]

2012 is only about 5 months away; if Marvel had a Captain America series lined up for next year, we'd have heard about it this year. Marvel isn't going to give Cap a solo series as long as he's a prominent player on Avengers: EMH, and it's just as well, since Cap seems to work best as part of a team.

The movie was great, don't get me wrong; I've never been the biggest Capt. America fan and I thought it was fantastic, but that wouldn't work every week. Cap's 'powers' are peak human physical abilities; he's basically a gold-medal athlete with an indestructible shield. Not a bad thing by any means, but not the most visually impressive set of abilities when put through the process of animation. There'd be no point in spinning Cap off into his own show set in the present day because in the present, he's an Avenger, and Marvel already has a show for that; and they couldn't set the series in WW2 because that's a finite story; WW2 can't go on forever, and at some point he'd have to get frozen. In a way, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes is Captain America's series. You can't be serious,a solo series of Cap would'nt work?A Hulk with agents series works?An Iron man teenage series works?An X-men series starring Wolverine works?But a Cap series would'nt work?He doesn't always have to be in a war,he is a man out of time after all.He has a long running solo comic book title.He has enough villians and also could put in some Avengers villians.Dude he's an Avenger and so is Iron man and Hulk and they have and will have their own series.Don't say it's because he has no super powers...look at Batman he is just a man..a very intellegent and skilled fighter but he hasn't taken a super soldier serum.Every hero don't need to be a mutant,bitten by a spider or be from another planet.Cap is fearless,a great combat fighter,has agility and smarts and the coolest costume.He by far deserves his own animated series.I hope and got to believe by 2013 he will.

[suss2it]

You can't be serious,a solo series of Cap would'nt work?A Hulk with agents series works?An Iron man teenage series works?An X-men series starring Wolverine works?But a Cap series would'nt work?He doesn't always have to be in a war,he is a man out of time after all.He has a long running solo comic book title.He has enough villians and also could put in some Avengers villians.Dude he's an Avenger and so is Iron man and Hulk and they have and will have their own series.Don't say it's because he has no super powers...look at Batman he is just a man..a very intellegent and skilled fighter but he hasn't taken a super soldier serum.Every hero don't need to be a mutant,bitten by a spider or be from another planet.Cap is fearless,a great combat fighter,has agility and smarts and the coolest costume.He by far deserves his own animated series.I hope and got to believe by 2013 he will.

While I'm definitely with you in thinking that Cap earned and could easily headline his own animated series, I'm not nearly as optismistic that he'll get one so soon. Hopefully the live-action movie is successful enough to generate more public interest in him.

[Silverstar]

You can't be serious,a solo series of Cap would'nt work?A Hulk with agents series works?An Iron man teenage series works?An X-men series starring Wolverine works?But a Cap series would'nt work?

Wolverine & The X-Men didn't work. Just sayin'.



doesn't always have to be in a war,he is a man out of time after all.He has a long running solo comic book title.He has enough villians and also could put in some Avengers villians.Dude he's an Avenger and so is Iron man and Hulk and they have and will have their own series.

Cap's already on a series which deals with his being a man out of time and features his rogues' gallery as well as some Avengers villains. It's a little thing called Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. If Marvel is ever to give Captain America his own series, it should be something different than what we're already getting on A:EMH.


Don't say it's because he has no super powers...look at Batman he is just a man..a very intellegent and skilled fighter but he hasn't taken a super soldier serum.Every hero don't need to be a mutant,bitten by a spider or be from another planet.

I never said they had to be. Please don't put words in my mouth. One of my current favorite superheroes is Robin, who has no superpowers at all. But he and Batman also have a vast array of gadgets and accessories at their disposal that TV execs can exploit and replicate on toy store shelves. Cap just has the sheild, and once you sell a million of those, that's it. No themed vehicles or gizmos. In WW2 Steve fired a mean gun, but you can't show that on kids' TV. The suits want stuff they can sell. Not saying I agree with that, but that's how they think. That's why I said Cap works better in a team dynamic alongside other heroes with dazzling powers, gadgets and assorted kewl stuff, at least from a TV perspective.


Cap is fearless,a great combat fighter,has agility and smarts and the coolest costume.He by far deserves his own animated series.I hope and got to believe by 2013 he will.


I get that you're a Cap fan, and that's great, but I'm just not as optimistic that we'll be getting a Captain America solo series so soon, especially while A:EMH is still running and Cap plays such a prominent part in it. Like I said in my previous post, A;EMH is Cap's show in a way.

[Medinnus]

Wolverine & The X-Men didn't work. Just sayin'.


OK... I am just speaking with my own opinion here, without facts - I came late to the W&tXM party, after Netflix had the season set, but my impression from the conversations here are that it DID work; just not well enough that, given how resource-screwed Marvel Studios was at the time, they scrapped it so they could work on something else (Thor proto-series, Hulk proto, some of which got folded into A:EMH).

Marvel Studios has since gotten a lot more resources, what with Disney muscle and the revenues from the successful movie strings and the VC funding and whatnot. If it was still in production today, it would probably have stayed in production, rather than the studio needing to "steal the bricks to build the next house".

Its like when Silver Surfer and Avengers: The Travesty...er.... United They Stand, and the incipient CA series were all junked when Marvel went through bankruptcy. They may or may not have survived anyways, but quality wasn't the deal-breaker, the empty wallet was.

As for the viability of a solo-Cap title, I think you're severely underestimating his ability to sustain a solo series. Some of his Rogue's Gallery represent a decent chunk of the Avengers villain list, but its kind of like Hydra... for every one the Avengers put behind bards, two take its place. There are more than enough villains to keep a solo Cap series fresh.

Lets assume that we kick it off in roughly the same state of development that AEMH is (middle Silver Age-ish).

Villains Include (in rough chronology, even!):

* The Exiles
* Batroc Ze Leapair!
* The Swordsman (guest-starring Hawkeye? Please?)
* Dr. Faustus
* Paste Pot Pete? I mean, he's an Avengers-level threat, riiiiight? )
* The Fourth/Fifth/Sixth Sleepers
* The Man-Brute
* The Maggia - Maybe Count Nefaria? He can hire the Ani-Men as goons!
* The Scorpion and Mr. Hyde (151-152 were my first Captain America comics!)
* Suprema and Scarbo (who would perhaps become Sister Night down the line!)
* Morgan the Harlem Crime Lord (with Luke Cage GS?)
* Roxxon/Brand - they can fill the holes left by leaving AIM and Hydra to the Avengers)
* Stoneface!
* The Grandmaster
* The Secret Empire
* The Serpent Squad/Serpent Society
* Plant-Man/Porcupine/Eel/Viper I
* Solarr
* Nightshade
* The "terrifying" Tumbler
* The Achemoid
* William Taurey
* Machinesmith
* The Americop
* The Controller
* The Slugg!
* ...dont make me trot out Cap-Wolf!
* Animus/Vamp
* The Ameridroid
* The Adaptoid
* The Constrictor
* The Sons of the Serpent
* Blockbuster
* Madcap
* The Watchdogs
* Flag-Smasher
* Taskmaster
* ULTIMATUM
* Winter Soldier


Or perhaps some WWII flashback stories?
* Omar and Sando!
* Baron Blood
* Master Man
* The U-Man
* Agent Axis
* Lady Lotus
* The Grand Director/1950's Cap
* Iron Cross
* Brain drain
* Teutonic Knight
* Warrior Woman
* The Crusaders

[Munkiman]

2012 is only about 5 months away; if Marvel had a Captain America series lined up for next year, we'd have heard about it this year. Marvel isn't going to give Cap a solo series as long as he's a prominent player on Avengers: EMH, and it's just as well, since Cap seems to work best as part of a team.

The movie was great, don't get me wrong; I've never been the biggest Capt. America fan and I thought it was fantastic, but that wouldn't work every week. Cap's 'powers' are peak human physical abilities; he's basically a gold-medal athlete with an indestructible shield. Not a bad thing by any means, but not the most visually impressive set of abilities when put through the process of animation. There'd be no point in spinning Cap off into his own show set in the present day because in the present, he's an Avenger, and Marvel already has a show for that; and they couldn't set the series in WW2 because that's a finite story; WW2 can't go on forever, and at some point he'd have to get frozen. In a way, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes is Captain America's series.
Captain America would definitely work week to week, he's been the lead in at least one comic book every month for the past 50 years, mostly set in the present. There's a wealth of source material to mine from.

And as for peak human physical abilities not being visually interesting enough - Batman seems to get by pretty well. He may have more gadgets, but Cap can do cool flips and shield ricochet tricks and stuff.

Also, Cap doesn't get a ton of screentime in AEMH. It's a team show, so they have to split the time amongst all the different characters, and even then Cap often gets the short end of the stick compared to characters like Iron Man, Thor and Hawkeye. A Captain America show would be more about Cap and his world and supporting cast, rather than getting a few scenes every now and then in Avengers.

[Venom Melendez]

OK... I am just speaking with my own opinion here, without facts - I came late to the W&tXM party, after Netflix had the season set, but my impression from the conversations here are that it DID work; just not well enough that, given how resource-screwed Marvel Studios was at the time, they scrapped it so they could work on something else (Thor proto-series, Hulk proto, some of which got folded into A:EMH). Marvel Studios has since gotten a lot more resources, what with Disney muscle and the revenues from the successful movie strings and the VC funding and whatnot. If it was still in production today, it would probably have stayed in production, rather than the studio needing to "steal the bricks to build the next house".Its like when Silver Surfer and Avengers: The Travesty...er.... United They Stand, and the incipient CA series were all junked when Marvel went through bankruptcy. They may or may not have survived anyways, but quality wasn't the deal-breaker, the empty wallet was.As for the viability of a solo-Cap title, I think you're severely underestimating his ability to sustain a solo series. Some of his Rogue's Gallery represent a decent chunk of the Avengers villain list, but its kind of like Hydra... for every one the Avengers put behind bards, two take its place. There are more than enough villains to keep a solo Cap series fresh.Lets assume that we kick it off in roughly the same state of development that AEMH is (middle Silver Age-ish). Villains Include (in rough chronology, even!):* The Exiles* Batroc Ze Leapair!* The Swordsman (guest-starring Hawkeye? Please?)* Dr. Faustus* Paste Pot Pete? I mean, he's an Avengers-level threat, riiiiight? )* The Fourth/Fifth/Sixth Sleepers* The Man-Brute* The Maggia - Maybe Count Nefaria? He can hire the Ani-Men as goons!* The Scorpion and Mr. Hyde (151-152 were my first Captain America comics!)* Suprema and Scarbo (who would perhaps become Sister Night down the line!)* Morgan the Harlem Crime Lord (with Luke Cage GS?)* Roxxon/Brand - they can fill the holes left by leaving AIM and Hydra to the Avengers)* Stoneface!* The Grandmaster* The Secret Empire* The Serpent Squad/Serpent Society* Plant-Man/Porcupine/Eel/Viper I* Solarr* Nightshade* The "terrifying" Tumbler* The Achemoid* William Taurey* Machinesmith* The Americop* The Controller* The Slugg!* ...dont make me trot out Cap-Wolf!* Animus/Vamp* The Ameridroid* The Adaptoid* The Constrictor* The Sons of the Serpent* Blockbuster* Madcap* The Watchdogs* Flag-Smasher* Taskmaster* ULTIMATUM* Winter SoldierOr perhaps some WWII flashback stories?* Omar and Sando!* Baron Blood* Master Man* The U-Man* Agent Axis* Lady Lotus* The Grand Director/1950's Cap* Iron Cross* Brain drain* Teutonic Knight* Warrior Woman* The Crusaders I love night shade. I wished she showed up more. Suprema/Mother Night would be cool too. Especially if they add her relationship with Skull. For that matter, i hope Sin eventually makes an animated debut. Cap actually has some very cool female villains.

[Medinnus]

I love night shade. I wished she showed up more. Suprema/Mother Night would be cool too. Especially if they add her relationship with Skull. For that matter, i hope Sin eventually makes an animated debut. Cap actually has some very cool female villains.

And allies, or have you forgotten the SHIELD Femme Force?

Lord knows I've tried to forget...

[Venom Melendez]

And allies, or have you forgotten the SHIELD Femme Force?

Lord knows I've tried to forget...

Ha! Yeah, though Sharon Carter is awesome.

I also wonder how they'd do Flag-Smasher in an Animated show.

[beyond94]

It would be really special if Phil Bourassa would be the lead animation designer and model sheet Captain America and all other guest starMarvel characters including Spider-Man in the style of John Romita Sr. With Sam Liu as supervising director. That would make Captain America an awesome animated show.

[Kumori MC]

Okay, I know people will hate me for this, but I'll just up and say it anyway.

I think that a Captain America animated series is a bad idea.

In all honesty, he's an overrated, overused character that only serves as a huge shout-out to patriotism. The most cliched of all heroes, might I add.

The thing that really does get to me is the annoying fan-base of the character. When you push something so damn much, it becomes annoying. Need I remind the good members of this forum how much did comic book fans grow to resent Wolverine after his boost in popularity and appearances in nearly every medium where he takes up the focus?

Now, I'm not saying erase the good Captain entirely. I'm not American, and I understand that the audiences need a hero that represents a nation. But Steve Rogers is the corniest one out there - he's a war veteran, a natural-born leader, a boy-scout, rarely defeated, beloved by all, saves puppies and kittens, blah, blah, yadda. Seriously, if there should be a good hero that the audiences can emulate, it should be an underdog, someone who goes from rags to more rags, but manages to save everyone and deserve no recognition. The Captain has become a minor deity in the comics, and the propaganda for him keeps growing, when he's essentially just a dweeb who got his body and skill by obeying the government and participating in an experiment. No offence, but Cap gaining his physique is a lot similar to how Justin Bieber rose to fame - it happened overnight.

Again, nothing against the Captain, a lot of good stories can be written about the character, but his own animated series would just be too much.

Thank you.

[capfan1]

Okay, I know people will hate me for this, but I'll just up and say it anyway.

I think that a Captain America animated series is a bad idea.

In all honesty, he's an overrated, overused character that only serves as a huge shout-out to patriotism. The most cliched of all heroes, might I add.

The thing that really does get to me is the annoying fan-base of the character. When you push something so damn much, it becomes annoying. Need I remind the good members of this forum how much did comic book fans grow to resent Wolverine after his boost in popularity and appearances in nearly every medium where he takes up the focus?

Now, I'm not saying erase the good Captain entirely. I'm not American, and I understand that the audiences need a hero that represents a nation. But Steve Rogers is the corniest one out there - he's a war veteran, a natural-born leader, a boy-scout, rarely defeated, beloved by all, saves puppies and kittens, blah, blah, yadda. Seriously, if there should be a good hero that the audiences can emulate, it should be an underdog, someone who goes from rags to more rags, but manages to save everyone and deserve no recognition. The Captain has become a minor deity in the comics, and the propaganda for him keeps growing, when he's essentially just a dweeb who got his body and skill by obeying the government and participating in an experiment. No offence, but Cap gaining his physique is a lot similar to how Justin Bieber rose to fame - it happened overnight.

Again, nothing against the Captain, a lot of good stories can be written about the character, but his own animated series would just be too much.

Thank you. You can't be serious about Cap being overrated and a dweeb.He hasn't had a series of his own and yes he is the living symbol of America and never gives up,in a way he is the underdog,read the origon before bashing the greatest comic book hero ever.Comparing Cap to beiber is an insult as I would more likely compare the web head to beiber.Cap is getting a little exposure right now because of the big hit movie and he's a well known character.You may as well come here bashing America with your post which is uncalled for.Which is it?First you say Cap series wouldn't work then say there's alot of good stories that could be made.your post is very much Anti-American slurs and should be handled properly by moderatos here.

Mod Note: Let's keep things respectful among each other here. If you have any issues, come to a moderator - don't make a public spectacle out of things.

[Medinnus]

Okay, I know people will hate me for this, but I'll just up and say it anyway.

Nah, its pretty clear from your post that you don't "get" the character of Steve Rogers, if all you see is a flag-waving, patriotic, propaganda tool.

Given that, its hard for me to take any of your remarks seriously. Go watch the movie - it captures the Steve Rogers character perfectly.

Steve Rogers doesn't represent the nation; he represents the American spirit. Anyone could have been Captain America, but not everyone would keep applying to enlist after coming up 4-F many times before. Not many 98-lb weaklings would have stood up to the bully in the theater, knowing that calling him out meant a beating. Steve Rogers puts his money where his mouth is, so to speak; he doesn't flinch from doing the right thing, even if he can't possibly win, and he doesn't give up; if he can't go through the door, he'll find another entrance, dig a hole to the basement, or poke a hole in the ceiling - but he doesn't give up. During "Operation: Rebirth", the scientists are ready to call it off and stand down when Rogers is subjected to agonizing pain - it is Rogers that calls for them to continue, dedicated to the task at hand.

Labeling Rogers as a government stooge merely reinforces my contention that you don't have a clue concerning the actual character; clearly, you haven't read much, if any, of his stories, or you'd understand that far from being a government dweeb-thug, Steve Rogers has a long history of disagreeing with his government, to the point of temporarily giving up the uniform when he doesn't feel he can wear it in good conscience.

Perhaps if you abandon your pre-conceived anti-American prejudice and actually read the comics you seem so intent on dismissing, you might come to a better understanding.

[Kumori MC]

You can't be serious about Cap being overrated and a dweeb.He hasn't had a series of his own and yes he is the living symbol of America and never gives up,in a way he is the underdog,read the origon before bashing the greatest comic book hero ever.Comparing Cap to beiber is an insult as I would more likely compare the web head to beiber.Cap is getting a little exposure right now because of the big hit movie and he's a well known character.You may as well come here bashing America with your post which is uncalled for.Which is it?First you say Cap series wouldn't work then say there's alot of good stories that could be made.your post is very much Anti-American slurs and should be handled properly by moderatos here.

Let's get one thing straight right now.

In no way was my attention to bash America or Americans, I was talking strictly about the character of Captain America. And I do know his origin story, considering how much it has been re-told over and over again in the comic books, just like Batman's or Superman's origin.

Second, I wasn't, as you put it, "bashing" him. I simply stated that his own cartoon series wouldn't be a good idea. His movie, now in theaters, is done well and the way he deserved it, and I think that re-telling it in animated form would be too much. The similar can be said about the Green Lantern, which is why his own upcoming CGI will not have a single mention of how Hal came to have the ring.

Third, you need to calm that attitude down a bit. I understand how you feel about the character of Steve Rogers, and I respect that. But tell me this: with the movie out, along side a video game CA: Super Soldier, and him already being in both Avengers and the SHS, do you think he's not getting enough exposure as it is? I'll juxtapose Deadpool, who has had three animated appearances in total and had appeared in roughly six video games [Cap has had double the appearance number on that field] and one live action movie [the good Captain has had movies about him since the 1940s].

And finally, just to clear the air. I don't hate Captain America in any way, but I would hardly call him the greatest super hero of all times. I know you probably don't feel the same, nor does the rest of the forum, but I'll remind you that we all have the right of an opinion. So, as I respect your opinion on this whole matter, please respect mine.

Also, if the mods honestly see these two replies of mine as rule-breaking, then I'll modify them or ask them to be removed, although I don't see what I said or did that's wrong.

Thank you.


Nah, its pretty clear from your post that you don't "get" the character of Steve Rogers, if all you see is a flag-waving, patriotic, propaganda tool.

Given that, its hard for me to take any of your remarks seriously. Go watch the movie - it captures the Steve Rogers character perfectly.

Steve Rogers doesn't represent the nation; he represents the American spirit. Anyone [I]could have been Captain America, but not everyone would keep applying to enlist after coming up 4-F many times before. Not many 98-lb weaklings would have stood up to the bully in the theater, knowing that calling him out meant a beating. Steve Rogers puts his money where his mouth is, so to speak; he doesn't flinch from doing the right thing, even if he can't possibly win, and he doesn't give up; if he can't go through the door, he'll find another entrance, dig a hole to the basement, or poke a hole in the ceiling - but he doesn't give up. During "Operation: Rebirth", the scientists are ready to call it off and stand down when Rogers is subjected to agonizing pain - it is Rogers that calls for them to continue, dedicated to the task at hand.

Labeling Rogers as a government stooge merely reinforces my contention that you don't have a clue concerning the actual character; clearly, you haven't read much, if any, of his stories, or you'd understand that far from being a government dweeb-thug, Steve Rogers has a long history of disagreeing with his government, to the point of temporarily giving up the uniform when he doesn't feel he can wear it in good conscience.

Perhaps if you abandon your pre-conceived anti-American prejudice and actually read the comics you seem so intent on dismissing, you might come to a better understanding.

Again, there is no anti-American prejudice there. Let's get this much clear, I speak of the character named Steve Rogers, also known as Captain America. NOT the American nation in general.

As far as knowledge of the character is concerned, need I remind you that he was created during the second world war, and yes, he was used as propaganda material. Sad, but true. His position today and seventy years ago differ greatly, because the times have changed and he grew into the ideal character you know and love now.

I've read a great deal of comics that included the good Captain, and no, he's not a bad character, but he's not perfect. Sadly, a lot of fanboys feel differently, as is the case with Wolverine, Spider-man, Iron Man, etc.

I do hope this clears the air a bit and gives you a little more time to actually question the said character a bit as well. Remember, no man is perfect, and it's those imperfections [and overcoming them] that make a super hero what he truly is.

Now you can tar and feather me if you want. :D

Mod Note: Posts merged together. No need for multiple posts when one will do (via the multi-quote function, for example). Thank you.

[suss2it]

You can't be serious about Cap being overrated and a dweeb.He hasn't had a series of his own and yes he is the living symbol of America and never gives up,in a way he is the underdog,read the origon before bashing the greatest comic book hero ever.Comparing Cap to beiber is an insult as I would more likely compare the web head to beiber.Cap is getting a little exposure right now because of the big hit movie and he's a well known character.You may as well come here bashing America with your post which is uncalled for.Which is it?First you say Cap series wouldn't work then say there's alot of good stories that could be made.your post is very much Anti-American slurs and should be handled properly by moderatos here.Are you being serious? I don't see anything anti-american in his post. Just cause he doesn't like the Captain America doesn't make him anti-american, and if anything that's the kinda attitude Steve Rogers would frown upon.



I've read a great deal of comics that included the good Captain, and no, he's not a bad character, but he's not perfect. Sadly, a lot of fanboys feel differently, as is the case with Wolverine, Spider-man, Iron Man, etc.Who'd want to even read/watch/play as a perfect character?

[Kumori MC]

Are you being serious? I don't see anything anti-american in his post. Just cause he doesn't like the Captain America doesn't make him anti-american, and if anything that's the kinda attitude Steve Rogers would frown upon.

Thank you.

[Medinnus]

As far as knowledge of the character is concerned, need I remind you that he was created during the second world war, and yes, he was used as propaganda material. Sad, but true. His position today and seventy years ago differ greatly, because the times have changed and he grew into the ideal character you know and love now.


I find it strange that most of the criticism leveled (not just by you) at Steve Rogers stems from his WWII origin; that's like criticizing the character of Mickey Mouse for stuff from Steamboat Willie, or claiming "Of course Batman uses guns" because he used one in (I think) Batman #1, killing the werewolf minion of the vampire villain "The Monk" (IIRC). I know he smoked a pipe in the Golden Age. So what?

That's (essentially) not the same character. There isn't a single character from the Golden Age whose Golden Age characterization has anything resembling a depth of character. I find the Golden Age as fun "cheese", but outside of some of the irony and thought put into Spectre appearances, not very profound. Nor were they meant to be; they were the next step in comic strip evolution, and "All in Color! For A Dime!"

The characterization of Steve Rogers properly starts with Avengers #4, post-popsicle. Like any character with fifty-something years of serial fiction, he's been handled well (Englehart, Thomas, Gruenwald, Brubaker, Nicieza), badly (Fredrich, Liefeld. the non-Kirkman Volume 4, especially the pathetic "kewl" attempts at "everything you know is WRONG" of Jae Lee, Gruenwald), and... well, mediocre (Kirby around 1976, the early Stan Lee issues, Gruenwald).

Rarely has he descended to the level of basic propaganda tool; in fact, those are usually the antagonist characters, not the protagonist point-of-view like the Super-Patriot, the KKK-like Watchmen, the 1950's Cap white supremist bit, et cetera.

Granted, this is not really the venue for a longer digression (insert plug for "Assembled II" here!), but I find your reading of the character to be superficial at best. Steve Rogers is far from being a perfect character; the path and attendant costs of virtue is the dramatic conflict, not the achievement thereof.






Now you can tar and feather me if you want. :D


What, with oil prices what they are? Dream on!

[Kumori MC]

I find it strange that most of the criticism leveled (not just by you) at Steve Rogers stems from his WWII origin; that's like criticizing the character of Mickey Mouse for stuff from Steamboat Willie, or claiming "Of course Batman uses guns" because he used one in (I think) Batman #1, killing the werewolf minion of the vampire villain "The Monk" (IIRC). I know he smoked a pipe in the Golden Age. So what?

That's (essentially) not the same character. There isn't a single character from the Golden Age whose Golden Age characterization has anything resembling a depth of character. I find the Golden Age as fun "cheese", but outside of some of the irony and thought put into Spectre appearances, not very profound. Nor were they meant to be; they were the next step in comic strip evolution, and "All in Color! For A Dime!"

The characterization of Steve Rogers properly starts with Avengers #4, post-popsicle. Like any character with fifty-something years of serial fiction, he's been handled well (Englehart, Thomas, Gruenwald, Brubaker, Nicieza), badly (Fredrich, Liefeld. the non-Kirkman Volume 4, especially the pathetic "kewl" attempts at "everything you know is WRONG" of Jae Lee, Gruenwald), and... well, mediocre (Kirby around 1976, the early Stan Lee issues, Gruenwald).

Rarely has he descended to the level of basic propaganda tool; in fact, those are usually the antagonist characters, not the protagonist point-of-view like the Super-Patriot, the KKK-like Watchmen, the 1950's Cap white supremist bit, et cetera.

Granted, this is not really the venue for a longer digression (insert plug for "Assembled II" here!), but I find your reading of the character to be superficial at best. Steve Rogers is far from being a perfect character; the path and attendant costs of virtue is the dramatic conflict, not the achievement thereof.

I've mentioned his WWII era interpretation because of the numerous "you know nothing of the origin of the character" posts aimed at me. He's not the same character, I fully agree, but the origin stays. Also, I have no problem with Batman using guns.

Also, "rarely" does not equal "never." Comic books, like all other forms of media, are used to propagate ideas, more often than not those are intertwined with political and national issues [albeit some more direct, some subtle]. I happen to come from Serbia, a country where nearly all television series and motion pictures speak of how one should nurture the tradition and history of the country, so much so that it borderlines orders. And the elements are usually the same - juxtaposition of the rural village environment and the urban city life, ethnic music and clothing forced upon the viewer every step of the way, being Serbian "above all else." I don't like it when tradition is force-fed to me.

Maybe that's the general reason why I don't find Captain America to be such a compelling character. Or appealing.

In any case, I know that the Captain today is way more fleshed out than back during the Golden Age, but nevertheless, I can't see him as noteworthy as so many other, better characters from the long history of comic books.

And if tar and feathering won't do, you can always use a cheese grinder. It's cheaper than oil, I hear.

[Rick Jones]

Also, if the mods honestly see these two replies of mine as rule-breaking, then I'll modify them or ask them to be removed, although I don't see what I said or did that's wrong.

Thank you.You don't seem to have any malicious intent as far as I can tell but posting about the character being corny and cliched in a thread dedicated to him can seem flamebaity to some, as it can ignite certain reactions as seen above. I'd just suggest that everyone post carefully. Things don't have to become heated.

[Kumori MC]

You don't seem to have any malicious intent as far as I can tell but posting about the character being corny and cliched in a thread dedicated to him can seem flamebaity to some, as it can ignite certain reactions as seen above. I'd just suggest that everyone post carefully. Things don't have to become heated.

You'll also note that not a single one of my posts has anything caps-locked or anything that implies attacks towards the other members.

I'll try and keep it good and quiet. As will the others, I hope.

[Medinnus]

I've mentioned his WWII era interpretation because of the numerous "you know nothing of the origin of the character" posts aimed at me. He's not the same character, I fully agree, but the origin stays. Also, I have no problem with Batman using guns.

First of all, I never said you know nothing of the "origin", just that you don't understand the character of Steve Rogers; nothing you have said has changed my mind, just as your "I have no problem with Batman using guns" tells me you don't really get Bruce Wayne, either.

The origin has been "reinterpreted" many times (I'm actually amazed at how consistent it has been actually); there is nothing wrong with a Super-Soldier Formula, or a radioactive spider, or a cosmic ray bombardment as the catalyst for setting up the beginnings of a hero. CA's origin really has no bearing on your contention that he's a jingoistic propaganda player, a "nationalism in a spandex suit", so to speak.


I happen to come from Serbia, a country where nearly all television series and motion pictures speak of how one should nurture the tradition and history of the country, so much so that it borderlines orders. And the elements are usually the same - juxtaposition of the rural village environment and the urban city life, ethnic music and clothing forced upon the viewer every step of the way, being Serbian "above all else." I don't like it when tradition is force-fed to me.

I think that your own upbringing, and the Serbian... what to call it? Propaganda engine? that dominates the media there has given you what one sometimes call's Carpenter's Syndrome - when all you know is a hammer, the world tends to look like bunches of nails. I think that perhaps you see propaganda where it really doesn't exist, although I suppose one can argue like Marx, that all the world can be seen in terms of class struggle - if that's how you want to limit your world view, it does work, to a degree.


Maybe that's the general reason why I don't find Captain America to be such a compelling character. Or appealing.

... if you view advocating personal choice, personal freedom, and personal responsibility as political tenants shoved down one's throat. Please cite for me an instance where Steve Rogers acts as a propaganda tool. It could be that I am so "American" in my liberal, humanist outlook that such things are in my blind spot; if you were blue tinted lenses, then anything that same color of view becomes essentially invisible. It could be that I'm the one suffering from Carpenter's Syndrome - but you'll have to prove it to me.

From where I'm standing you have an axe to grind against Captain America because you perceive him as nothing more than a nationalist symbol, something that your own experiences have taught you to resent, and I think you are unfair to the character because of those prejudices.

Now, granted, we're both allowed our own opinions, and you may not feel that 'converting' me (bad word, but you know what I mean) may not be worth the effort - fair enough. But until you do something more than claim he's a propaganda tool, don't expect me to give your opinion any weight.


And if tar and feathering won't do, you can always use a cheese grinder. It's cheaper than oil, I hear.

*sadistic gleam* NOW you're talking!

[Kumori MC]

First of all, I never said you know nothing of the "origin", just that you don't understand the character of Steve Rogers; nothing you have said has changed my mind, just as your "I have no problem with Batman using guns" tells me you don't really get Bruce Wayne, either.

The origin has been "reinterpreted" many times (I'm actually amazed at how consistent it has been actually); there is nothing wrong with a Super-Soldier Formula, or a radioactive spider, or a cosmic ray bombardment as the catalyst for setting up the beginnings of a hero. CA's origin really has no bearing on your contention that he's a jingoistic propaganda player, a "nationalism in a spandex suit", so to speak.



I think that your own upbringing, and the Serbian... what to call it? Propaganda engine? that dominates the media there has given you what one sometimes call's Carpenter's Syndrome - when all you know is a hammer, the world tends to look like bunches of nails. I think that perhaps you see propaganda where it really doesn't exist, although I suppose one can argue like Marx, that all the world can be seen in terms of class struggle - if that's how you want to limit your world view, it does work, to a degree.



... if you view advocating personal choice, personal freedom, and personal responsibility as political tenants shoved down one's throat. Please cite for me an instance where Steve Rogers acts as a propaganda tool. It could be that I am so "American" in my liberal, humanist outlook that such things are in my blind spot; if you were blue tinted lenses, then anything that same color of view becomes essentially invisible. It could be that I'm the one suffering from Carpenter's Syndrome - but you'll have to prove it to me.

From where I'm standing you have an axe to grind against Captain America because you perceive him as nothing more than a nationalist symbol, something that your own experiences have taught you to resent, and I think you are unfair to the character because of those prejudices.

Now, granted, we're both allowed our own opinions, and you may not feel that 'converting' me (bad word, but you know what I mean) may not be worth the effort - fair enough. But until you do something more than claim he's a propaganda tool, don't expect me to give your opinion any weight.



*sadistic gleam* NOW you're talking!

1. The gun thing was a side-comment, as this isn't a Bruce Wayne thread, and assuming that I know nothing of the character from a single sentence is called "judging a book by its cover." Something I might have done with the Captain in question to a degree. If you're up for it, we may chit-chat about Bats at length some time. For now, we stick to the Star-sprangled Avenger.

2. The character itself is used as the ideal American hero, in a manner that Superman has been from the moment he was conceived. You can't deny that many feel that the Captain is often identified with the term True American. I don't say there's anything wrong with that, but being someone who doesn't identify himself with his nation [or any nation, for that matter], I find that to be slightly repellent. [Please note, I said "slightly"]

3. In the world of media, everything is a form of propaganda. Not necessarily political propaganda, mind you. This is also something to be talked about outside of this thread.

4. The terms known as "personal choice, freedom, etc" are more often than not misused with extreme hypocrisy. True, I might not have an example of Steve's propaganda usage to provide at the moment [the one you asked me], but that doesn't mean the good Captain wasn't used as such, especially during the war years.

5. I'll admit, my upbringing has something to do with it, as I dislike nationalists and xenophobes, and I'll also admit to being a bit harsh on the character in question. However, that won't magically change my opinion, or yours.

Nor should it. We both choose what we like and what we dislike, it's only human.

P.S. buy a durable chrome cheese grinder, they will last you a lifetime.

[Venom Melendez]

In all honesty, he's an overrated, overused character that only serves as a huge shout-out to patriotism. The most cliched of all heroes, might I add.

.

Except Cap isn't about blind Patriotism, he's against that himself.

[Kumori MC]

Except Cap isn't about blind Patriotism, he's against that himself.

I said "serves as a shout-out to patriotism", not "is the living embodiment of it."

[Medinnus]

P.S. buy a durable chrome cheese grinder, they will last you a lifetime.

I admit, I chuckled a lot at that "last you a lifetime", in the same category as:

"Teach a man to make a fire, and you warm him for the night. Light a man on fire, and you warm him for the rest of his life."

A durable chrome cheese grinder could last me several lifetimes - as long as they belonged to someone else... ( /cue Sweeny Todd theme music)

[Kumori MC]

I admit, I chuckled a lot at that "last you a lifetime", in the same category as:

"Teach a man to make a fire, and you warm him for the night. Light a man on fire, and you warm him for the rest of his life."

A durable chrome cheese grinder could last me several lifetimes - as long as they belonged to someone else... ( /cue Sweeny Todd theme music)

And now I've chuckled. [at the fire remark, I mean]

Some would mock a cheese grinder, but it is more than a mere tool.

To some, it is a way of life.....

[dramatic silence]

[Hypestyle]

I'd love to see a new Captain American animated series, and it should have nothing to do with that horrible aborted version that Saban was developing years ago.. they changed his identity to "Tommy Thompkins" or something arbitrary like that.. bleh.. and the animation was Saban sub-par..

a new show must be top-notch, get marvel artists to do character designs.. delve into storylines from the 80s, 00's, 60's, 70's.. supporting cast like Sharon, Bernie, Nomad, Falcon, etc.

[beyond94]

I'd love to see a new Captain American animated series, and it should have nothing to do with that horrible aborted version that Saban was developing years ago.. they changed his identity to "Tommy Thompkins" or something arbitrary like that.. bleh.. and the animation was Saban sub-par.. a new show must be top-notch, get marvel artists to do character designs.. delve into storylines from the 80s, 00's, 60's, 70's.. supporting cast like Sharon, Bernie, Nomad, Falcon, etc.You are a person after my own heart when it comes to seeing whatI want from a Captain America animated series. When I started thisthread I love to see John Romita Sr. be the concept artist for the character designers. I love for them to incorporate the Nomad storyline as well as others from the 70's and 80's. The series must have a epic feel along with the addition of Falcon, Sharon Carterand the Femme Force! I hope Marvel Animation can do this.

[Medinnus]

...and the Femme Force!


Aaaaagh! My mind's eye! Its BLIND!

[TheVileOne]

The Cap movie has done decent business but has been nowhere near as successful as Iron Man or even Thor. I think we get the best of both by having Cap as a lead in Avengers. We get the classic styled Cap/Steve Rogers in animated form as part of the Avengers. I just don't think Cap has enough juice to carry his own series right now. Had Cap made over $300 million, I honestly have no doubt Disney would've put a new show into development by now, but it didn't really work out that way.

[Medinnus]

The Cap movie has done decent business but has been nowhere near as successful as Iron Man or even Thor. I think we get the best of both by having Cap as a lead in Avengers. We get the classic styled Cap/Steve Rogers in animated form as part of the Avengers. I just don't think Cap has enough juice to carry his own series right now. Had Cap made over $300 million, I honestly have no doubt Disney would've put a new show into development by now, but it didn't really work out that way.

Well, until the CA movie has been on the big screen as long as Thor and Iron Man movies you're not really comparing apples to apples. Let them all finish their runs here and overseas, and I'll bet you CA comes within 10% of Thor.

That said, he's got a lot more "juice" than many other properties Marvel Studios has put into play - I mean, Cloak and Dagger? Really? Now, I don't much care for Deadpool, but I can understand the decision to make a Deadpool feature, but Cloak and Dagger? Talk about lack of "juice"...

[TheVileOne]

Well, until the CA movie has been on the big screen as long as Thor and Iron Man movies you're not really comparing apples to apples. Let them all finish their runs here and overseas, and I'll bet you CA comes within 10% of Thor.

That said, he's got a lot more "juice" than many other properties Marvel Studios has put into play - I mean, Cloak and Dagger? Really? Now, I don't much care for Deadpool, but I can understand the decision to make a Deadpool feature, but Cloak and Dagger? Talk about lack of "juice"...

When Cap's run is finished it will not have mad anywhere near as much as Thor and Iron Man. Thor also made close to half a billion dollars worldwide which is a number Cap isn't going to touch.

Cloak and Dagger is being kicked around as a live TV series though. It's not really been picked up for series yet. Also that's for a live action network TV series. Different beast than animation.

My main point here Medinnus is that the shows and characters that have had series is pretty obvious why they've happened. They generally also have the backing and synergy of a big, successful live action movie series. Cap's movie also was not nearly as successful as others have been in the past.

[Kumori MC]

When Cap's run is finished it will not have mad anywhere near as much as Thor and Iron Man. Thor also made close to half a billion dollars worldwide which is a number Cap isn't going to touch.

Cloak and Dagger is being kicked around as a live TV series though. It's not really been picked up for series yet. Also that's for a live action network TV series. Different beast than animation.

My main point here Medinnus is that the shows and characters that have had series is pretty obvious why they've happened. They generally also have the backing and synergy of a big, successful live action movie series. Cap's movie also was not nearly as successful as others have been in the past.

Honestly, compared to the previous Captain America movies [six or seven in total, I don't know] this version is the most likable one, even to the audiences overseas. But I doubt he'll make as much as Iron Man or Thor.

And what's wrong with Cloak and Dagger getting their own show?

[TheVileOne]

I don't think there is anything wrong with it in theory. Marvel has a ton of intellectual property, and this could be one of the few feasible ways to adapt Cloak and Dagger since a live action movie with a budget would be a pretty tough sell. I think Captain America the new movie was well received but it is not near the hit of something like say a Batman or Iron Man or Spider-Man movie. I think Cap you have as a featured character in Avengers right now and a new animated series would be sorta redundant right now. I think maybe after Avengers is done they can go back and look into another Cap cartoon. And perhaps a live action sequel movie will be in the works by that point.

[Medinnus]

I doubt he'll make as much as Iron Man or Thor.


Opening Weekend Box Office Figures:

Dark Knight - $158,411,483
Spider-Man 3 - $151,116,516
Iron Man 2 - $128,122,480
Spider-Man 1 - $114,844,116
X-Men 3 - $102,750,665
Iron Man - $98,618,668
Spider-Man 2 - $88,156,227
X-Men 2 - $85,558,731
X-Men: Origins - $85,058,003
Thor - $65,723,338
Capt. America - $65,058,524
Incredible Hulk - $55,414,050
X-Men: 1st Cls - $55,101,604
X-Men - $54,471,475
Green Lantern - $53,174,303
Superman Returns - $52,535,096
Batman Begins- $48,745,440

Captain America did 98% as well as Thor on their opening weekend, a statistical dead heat. I see no reason for any of the statements about Cap not earning out as well as Thor; it may suffer in the foreign box office for people who are reflexively anti-anything American. I mean, none of this is absolute, really - so please, nobody get their panties in a bunch.

Captain America beat quite a few franchises that have had a ton more exposure. Now, some of this may be because its a better movie (YMMV), some of it might be inflation (which has been really low for the last decade, so not so much, probably). Some of it - and for Thor as well - is that people who are looking forward to the Avengers are watching movies that are that movie's framing devices.

So... if you're going to say things like "Captain America doesn't have 'juice'", it would seem that the facts disagree.


And perhaps a live action sequel movie will be in the works by that point.

Actually, Chris Evans is contracted for three, and the screenplay for both Thor II and CA II are in development.

Source: http://boxofficemojo.com/

[suss2it]

Opening Weekend Box Office Figures:

Dark Knight - $158,411,483
Spider-Man 3 - $151,116,516
Iron Man 2 - $128,122,480
Spider-Man 1 - $114,844,116
X-Men 3 - $102,750,665
Iron Man - $98,618,668
Spider-Man 2 - $88,156,227
X-Men 2 - $85,558,731
X-Men: Origins - $85,058,003
Thor - $65,723,338
Capt. America - $65,058,524
Incredible Hulk - $55,414,050
X-Men: 1st Cls - $55,101,604
X-Men - $54,471,475
Green Lantern - $53,174,303
Superman Returns - $52,535,096
Batman Begins- $48,745,440

Captain America did 98% as well as Thor on their opening weekend, a statistical dead heat. I see no reason for any of the statements about Cap not earning out as well as Thor; it may suffer in the foreign box office for people who are reflexively anti-anything American. I mean, none of this is absolute, really - so please, nobody get their panties in a bunch. So what if it does as well Thor? It's not like Thor's getting his own cartoon right now either. If it had done as well as the Iron Man movies I'd understand the argument.

[TheVileOne]

Opening Weekend Box Office Figures:
So... if you're going to say things like "Captain America doesn't have 'juice'", it would seem that the facts disagree.

Compared to Spider-Man, Batman, and Iron Man, he doesn't. And Cap still hasn't matched Thor's BO numbers foreign and domestic.


Actually, Chris Evans is contracted for three, and the screenplay for both Thor II and CA II are in development.

Source: http://boxofficemojo.com/

He's actually signed on for six films as Cap dropped down from nine or so he told me at The First Avenger presser ;) . But that still does not guarantee all three will get made. It's great they are in development, but I don't consider anything certain until I see it in front of me at the cinema. In 2007 a Thundercats CG movie was in development and a screenplay was even written for it.

[suss2it]

Compared to Spider-Man, Batman, and Iron Man, he doesn't. And Cap still hasn't matched Thor's BO numbers foreign and domestic.To be fair Thor came out 3 months before Captain America. I still think it's irrelevant to the conversation though, since Thor's not getting a cartoon either.

[TheVileOne]

No series but he did have Hulk vs. Thor and Thor: Tales of Asgard ;) .

I would love a Captain America cartoon. I was devastated the one in development in the late 90's got killed and never saw the light of day. I think it will happen eventually, we just need to be patient. Until that time I'm simply enjoying getting Cap in movies and in the Avengers cartoon.

[Kumori MC]

Opening Weekend Box Office Figures:

Dark Knight - $158,411,483
Spider-Man 3 - $151,116,516
Iron Man 2 - $128,122,480
Spider-Man 1 - $114,844,116
X-Men 3 - $102,750,665
Iron Man - $98,618,668
Spider-Man 2 - $88,156,227
X-Men 2 - $85,558,731
X-Men: Origins - $85,058,003
Thor - $65,723,338
Capt. America - $65,058,524
Incredible Hulk - $55,414,050
X-Men: 1st Cls - $55,101,604
X-Men - $54,471,475
Green Lantern - $53,174,303
Superman Returns - $52,535,096
Batman Begins- $48,745,440

Captain America did 98% as well as Thor on their opening weekend, a statistical dead heat. I see no reason for any of the statements about Cap not earning out as well as Thor; it may suffer in the foreign box office for people who are reflexively anti-anything American. I mean, none of this is absolute, really - so please, nobody get their panties in a bunch.

Captain America beat quite a few franchises that have had a ton more exposure. Now, some of this may be because its a better movie (YMMV), some of it might be inflation (which has been really low for the last decade, so not so much, probably). Some of it - and for Thor as well - is that people who are looking forward to the Avengers are watching movies that are that movie's framing devices.

So... if you're going to say things like "Captain America doesn't have 'juice'", it would seem that the facts disagree.

Quite a few franchises?

Are these not three X-men movies that have earned more than both the Thor movie AND the Cap movie? Are these not two Iron Man movies that also hold that position? Is The Dark Knight not on top of this list? And how many Spider-man movies did the Thor and Cap movies outearn?

Look, I'm not saying that either of the two movies is bad [nor am I the one who said that the good Captain doesn't have juice], but the fact stands that neither of the given two movies will earn as much as the said films above them in the list you just posted. Also, the anti-American argument is true, but not for the majority of audiences. I have several friends and neighbors who thought Captain America's movie was an absolute masterpiece.

And need I remind the members of the forum that a Thor animated series WAS announced before the movie was in production, but the project got shelved or something. It was to debut along side Avengers EMH and serve as a tie-in to the film or something.

Sadly, Marvel does have that history of shows that never saw the light of day [X-men in tie 80s, Captain America and Daredevil in the nineties, that Hulk Gamma Corps thing] so this came as no surprise.

But hey, perhaps it's better that neither one of the two avengers got an animated series, since their EMH versions are both kick-ass and handled well so far.

I'd probably opt for doing a pg-13 rated animated series, like, say, doing a Runaways show, but unfortunately that would not attract a vast enough audience to pay Marvel the money invested in the said series.

[Medinnus]

Quite a few franchises?.

I think its a bit unfair to compare either the Thor franchise of the Captain America franchise to Spider-Man, Batman, or X-Men franchises, given the exposure of the franchises over the years. CA and Thor (which, being within 2% of each other, did essentially the same). My argument would have appeared stronger if I'd just included the X-men film they did beat (the most recent one), and so forth:

Thor - $65,723,338
Capt. America - $65,058,524
Incredible Hulk - $55,414,050
X-Men: 1st Cls - $55,101,604
X-Men - $54,471,475
Green Lantern - $53,174,303
Superman (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=Superman) Returns - $52,535,096
Batman (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=Batman) Begins- $48,745,440

Note how, via selective statistical viewing, I can say (without lying) that CA's first franchise film beat the new Batman franchise film, smashed the Hulk, beat both the first and the latest X-Men film, and snuffed out Green Lantern's light... but!

1 - I have too much respect for most of the audience here not to be as comprehensive as possible. I tried to include any relevant Marvel or DC comic franchise; when you drag in non-comics stuff, you'd see they did very well, on an absolute basis.

2 - It was fun... :D



And need I remind the members of the forum that a Thor animated series WAS announced before the movie was in production


Much of the design work for the Thor and Hulk: Gamma Corps series were folded into the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Other parts were part of the spate of Thor DVD releases prior to his movie release. Considering how long Marvel has hyped Hulk, and how much more promotion Thor got compared to the Captain America movie, I'm pretty happy with the CA box office relative to the Incredible Hulk and Thor releases. Green Lantern got an animated DVD beforehand and and at the same time, got a LOT of promotion and tie ins, and CA did almost double the opening weekend.

Honestly, although its fun to speculate, I'm just as happy to not have a CA series on the boards at this time; I'd much rather have a Season Three (or more) of Avengers. Its claiming that somehow there is no market for one, or that CA is inferior somehow, lacking "juice", that smacks of personal dislike of the character, and not actually any factual basis for the claim. Its like if I claimed there was no market for Deadpool - even though I dislike the character, there is clearly a market for him (even if Ryan Reynolds plays him).

[Kumori MC]

I think its a bit unfair to compare either the Thor franchise of the Captain America franchise to Spider-Man, Batman, or X-Men franchises, given the exposure of the franchises over the years. CA and Thor (which, being within 2% of each other, did essentially the same). My argument would have appeared stronger if I'd just included the X-men film they did beat (the most recent one), and so forth:

Thor - $65,723,338
Capt. America - $65,058,524
Incredible Hulk - $55,414,050
X-Men: 1st Cls - $55,101,604
X-Men - $54,471,475
Green Lantern - $53,174,303
Superman (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=Superman) Returns - $52,535,096
Batman (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=Batman) Begins- $48,745,440

Note how, via selective statistical viewing, I can say (without lying) that CA's first franchise film beat the new Batman franchise film, smashed the Hulk, beat both the first and the latest X-Men film, and snuffed out Green Lantern's light... but!

1 - I have too much respect for most of the audience here not to be as comprehensive as possible. I tried to include any relevant Marvel or DC comic franchise; when you drag in non-comics stuff, you'd see they did very well, on an absolute basis.

2 - It was fun... :D



Much of the design work for the Thor and Hulk: Gamma Corps series were folded into the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Other parts were part of the spate of Thor DVD releases prior to his movie release. Considering how long Marvel has hyped Hulk, and how much more promotion Thor got compared to the Captain America movie, I'm pretty happy with the CA box office relative to the Incredible Hulk and Thor releases. Green Lantern got an animated DVD beforehand and and at the same time, got a LOT of promotion and tie ins, and CA did almost double the opening weekend.

Honestly, although its fun to speculate, I'm just as happy to not have a CA series on the boards at this time; I'd much rather have a Season Three (or more) of Avengers. Its claiming that somehow there is no market for one, or that CA is inferior somehow, lacking "juice", that smacks of personal dislike of the character, and not actually any factual basis for the claim. Its like if I claimed there was no market for Deadpool - even though I dislike the character, there is clearly a market for him (even if Ryan Reynolds plays him).

1. I'm not saying the Cap or Thor did bad in the box office, just that they didn't beat "quite a few franchises." Rather, they've just beaten a few movies from some of the said franchises. [Frankly, it's not easy to top the first X-men movie, nor any of the two Hulks, but I am a bit surprised with the reaction to First Class, I figured it would have more of an impact on the audiences. Oh well.] As far as GL is concerned, with that much CGI and overhype it was bound to hit fail central [or rather, not reach the level of the said Dark Knight or X-Men 2.]

2. Captain America may have not received an animated feature like Thor did [with the Tales of Asgard] or GL [with Emerald Knights, First Flight before that, and the upcoming video game and animated series], but his movie was handled better. So tell me, if they were to do an animated series separately from EMH and the movie itself, would the character be done justice? I wouldn't trade his animated EMH rendition for anything at the moment.

3. Well, look at it this way - Deadpool doesn't have an animated series either [which is a shame, an R-rated one would be most enjoyable.], and the only exposure he's really had so far is in the world of video games. But that's not much of an achievement, as nearly every heavy hitter of the Marvel Universe [including the Star-Sprangled Avenger] has had more than their fair share of appearances in the said field. And even the talks of the movie about him are flimsy at best. They hired a director, sure. Reynolds is heated up and wants to stick with it, okay. But until we see a trailer, or a teaser, or any official word on the matter, all we can do is hope [or rather, we can hope who actually like ol' Wade Wilson :P]

Erm, that's about it for now.

[suss2it]

I think its a bit unfair to compare either the Thor franchise of the Captain America franchise to Spider-Man, Batman, or X-Men franchises, given the exposure of the franchises over the years. CA and Thor (which, being within 2% of each other, did essentially the same). My argument would have appeared stronger if I'd just included the X-men film they did beat (the most recent one), and so forth:

Thor - $65,723,338
Capt. America - $65,058,524
Incredible Hulk - $55,414,050
X-Men: 1st Cls - $55,101,604
X-Men - $54,471,475
Green Lantern - $53,174,303
Superman (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=Superman) Returns - $52,535,096
Batman (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=Batman) Begins- $48,745,440

Much of the design work for the Thor and Hulk: Gamma Corps series were folded into the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Other parts were part of the spate of Thor DVD releases prior to his movie release. Considering how long Marvel has hyped Hulk, and how much more promotion Thor got compared to the Captain America movie, I'm pretty happy with the CA box office relative to the Incredible Hulk and Thor releases. Green Lantern got an animated DVD beforehand and and at the same time, got a LOT of promotion and tie ins, and CA did almost double the opening weekend.Captain America made roughly $11 million more than Green Lantern, how is that anywhere near "almost double"?



2. Captain America may have not received an animated feature like Thor did [with the Tales of Asgard] or GL [with Emerald Knights, First Flight before that, and the upcoming video game and animated series], but his movie was handled better. So tell me, if they were to do an animated series separately from EMH and the movie itself, would the character be done justice? I wouldn't trade his animated EMH rendition for anything at the moment. Why would we even have to? Iron Man has 2 cartoons in addition to EMH so it's not like it's an either or situation.

[Rick Jones]

After watching (and loving) the live-action movie, I'd really like to see a PG-13 DTV tie-in that chronicled one of Cap, Bucky, and the Howlers lost missions; something that takes place within the timeframe of the montage. That feels like something they could do a lot with (IMO) but I guess it would all depend on what they have planned for the next movie(s).

[TheVileOne]

The thing is I think the animated DTV model for Marvel is pretty much over and done with at this point. The Lionsgate deal has been fulfilled and it looks like that is it for now.

[Kumori MC]

After watching (and loving) the live-action movie, I'd really like to see a PG-13 DTV tie-in that chronicled one of Cap, Bucky, and the Howlers lost missions; something that takes place within the timeframe of the montage. That feels like something they could do a lot with (IMO) but I guess it would all depend on what they have planned for the next movie(s).

This idea actually sounds reasonable enough.

Alas, I doubt Disney would pony up to make DTVs that are PG-13. And even if they did, they would have to work hard to outdo DC in the same department.

[Also, someone remind me if Disney HAS the handle on the DTV animated projects, or can Marvel work in that field independently?]

I've read somewhere [probably a fake Wikipedia entry] that another animated Dr. Strange DTV movie is in the making, due date 2014-ish. Does that info have a speck of truth?

Thank you.

[Rick Jones]

The thing is I think the animated DTV model for Marvel is pretty much over and done with at this point. The Lionsgate deal has been fulfilled and it looks like that is it for now.I've been basing a little hope on what Loeb said about possibly revealing the ideas for where they want to take future dtvs next year. I will be super upset if they totally give up on producing any future dtvs, especially as it seemed like they were really getting to a high mark by the time they did Planet Hulk.



Alas, I doubt Disney would pony up to make DTVs that are PG-13. And even if they did, they would have to work hard to outdo DC in the same department.

[Also, someone remind me if Disney HAS the handle on the DTV animated projects, or can Marvel work in that field independently?] I don't think the rating should be a problem as long as it's released under the Marvel banner (even if Disney does the distributing). As far as the comparison with DC's movies goes, it's something that I just don't pay much mind to. I love DC Animation and I love what they've done with their movies (for the most part) but I still enjoyed most of Marvel's movies a good deal, even if they weren't hitting that same level of quality. I've probably watched Next Avengers just as much as Crisis On Two Earths, or Doctor Strange, Planet Hulk and Hulk Vs just as much as Wonder Woman, First Flight, Under The Red Hood and New Frontier. I love the various tv series but I really want to see them continue with the movies. I think that will be the perfect place for Cap to shine as a solo hero.



I've read somewhere [probably a fake Wikipedia entry] that another animated Dr. Strange DTV movie is in the making, due date 2014-ish. Does that info have a speck of truth?

Thank you. There's no Doc Strange dtv in the making, as far as we fans are aware of but the script for the live-action movie might be on the table.

[Kumori MC]

I don't think the rating should be a problem as long as it's released under the Marvel banner (even if Disney does the distributing). As far as the comparison with DC's movies goes, it's something that I just don't pay much mind to. I love DC Animation and I love what they've done with their movies (for the most part) but I still enjoyed most of Marvel's movies a good deal, even if they weren't hitting that same level of quality. I've probably watched Next Avengers just as much as Crisis On Two Earths, or Doctor Strange, Planet Hulk and Hulk Vs just as much as Wonder Woman, First Flight, Under The Red Hood and New Frontier. I love the various tv series but I really want to see them continue with the movies. I think that will be the perfect place for Cap to shine as a solo hero.

There's no Doc Strange dtv in the making, as far as we fans are aware of but the script for the live-action movie might be on the table.

First off, thanks for the info on the good Doctor.

Second, I agree, Marvel DTVs are nothing if not watchable [I personally saw both Hulk Vs specials around four times, as well as the Dr Strange DTV], but they lack the spark that DC DTVs have. All we can do is hope that the future bears something of hope in the field of Marvel animated movies.

[Hypestyle]

I hope this happens, sooner rather than later. an assortment of "Cap" plots can figure into the Avengers, but I hope there can be a Cap solo spinoff. It would be great to see a 65 episode order like with the spider-man 90s series, or are those "large-scale" orders for animated shows done? Nowadays it seems like, at best, there are two 13 episode seasons, and then that's it, move on to a totally new project. It's very annoying and short-circuits what could be intriguing concepts from developing further with the same creative teams.