Justice League vs. Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes S1

[suss2it]

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm302/suss2it/th_4d948be4.png (http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm302/suss2it/4d948be4.png)

vs.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm302/suss2it/th_e20b55d3.png (http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm302/suss2it/e20b55d3.png)

Now that season 1 of EMH has officially wrapped up, I think it's fair to start comparing it to other cartoons' first seasons. First up, Justice League.

Both had 26 episodes each, though they went about using them in different ways, with Justice League using either two-parters or three-parters, while EMH had the micro episodes as the first 7, and two three-parters and two-parters. Both were about their universe's premiere team etc.

So when you factor in plots, subplots, art direction, animation, fight sequences, character designs, characters, character growth, character interaction/dynamics, voice acting etc. which season did you overall prefer?

In regards to Justice League, we're only discussing season 1, so nothing from season 2 or JLU should factor into your decision.

Also may a Mod be so kind as to mirror this into the DC Animation forum, please and thank you.

[Lockjaw]

Very difficult to seperate the two and i almost feel dirty saying this but im going to have to give the slight edge to A:EMH.

Reason being that between the two i thought both 1st seasons were very strong but in A:EMH there weren't any episodes that bored me as much as "A knight of Shadows" two parter in Justice League. It also helps that A:EMH has an overarching plot to the season but thats really all that seperates the two series for me. The character designs are nice in both and the animation in both series seem to be pretty much around the same level i.e. not as good as shows like Avatar, Young Justice and Spectacular Spider-Man but above the likes of X-men TAS, Fantastic Four: WGH ect.

[W.C.Reaf]

I think the clear 'winner' here is Avengers. JL just didn't have a strong first season even though it did have some great episodes.

One of the reasons why I think Avengers is better is the character conflict. They yell at each other, they don't how to work together or on a team, they have different ideologies and world views from each other, and they show it on screen that while these guys work together doesn't mean they're best friends. In JL they just work together and it clicks and they work together perfectly after the first episode. No one questions Batman's methods or that Wonder Woman has no actual experience in the field, and the only time they had any sort of argument was when they were mind controlled.

[Medinnus]

Honestly, I find comparisons like this tedious and annoying; what it comes down to is a very subjective evaluation of which storytelling style you like more; the heroic-with-few-faults-and-higher-power-level of Justice League, or the more-human-with-faults-and-fewer-powers Avengers.

Just like in the comics they come from.

Once you remove that you get into marginal differences like which style of animation one prefers, or whether or not this voice actor is superior to that voice actor. On that level, I'm like the proverbial Redneck Art Critic - "I don't know what's good, I just know what I like,"

[Silverstar]

Since Justice League ended years ago, I don't consider these 2 shows in competition with one another, and I get a little tired of peoples' tendency to always have to say "Which is better?" (DC or Marvel? Chocolate or vanilla? Coke or Pepsi?) I don't see why we can't just appreciate the merits both series, but if pressed to choose right now, I would have to give the nod to Avengers:EMH, if only for the fact that (so far), Avengers doesn't seem to have a character like Bat-God.

Justice League was the point in the DCAU in which Batman began mutating into Wayniac and started being characterized as this smug ultimate warrior who never, ever trips up and is constantly outshining his teammates to the point where the other heroes look kind of incompetent next to him, and subsequently some fans tend to bombard you with rhetoric that he was a) a god or b) the only good character on the show, neither of which was correct. (Wolverine underwent this same mutation on the 90's X-Men cartoon.) So far Avengers has managed to keep a decent balance between its' individual team members and as yet hasn't had any character become overdone into Mary Sue status, so for that reason alone, I'll say A:EMH did a slightly better job in its' initial season, although I still enjoyed JL immensely.

[suss2it]

Honestly, I find comparisons like this tedious and annoying; what it comes down to is a very subjective evaluation of which storytelling style you like more; the heroic-with-few-faults-and-higher-power-level of Justice League, or the more-human-with-faults-and-fewer-powers Avengers.

Just like in the comics they come from.

Once you remove that you get into marginal differences like which style of animation one prefers, or whether or not this voice actor is superior to that voice actor. On that level, I'm like the proverbial Redneck Art Critic - "I don't know what's good, I just know what I like,"I'm not asking objectively which one you think is better, I'm asking subjectively which one people think is better. If you think it's tedious, that's fine, but then just don't bother participating in the discussion.


Since Justice League ended years ago, I don't consider these 2 shows in competition with one another, and I get a little tired of peoples' tendency to always have to say "Which is better?" (DC or Marvel? Chocolate or vanilla? Coke or Pepsi?) I don't see why we can't just appreciate the merits both series, but if pressed to choose right now, I would have to give the nod to Avengers:EMH, if only for the fact that (so far), Avengers doesn't seem to have a character like Bat-God.They aren't in competition with each other. nor or Young Justice and EMH, I just think it's fun to compare and contrast different cartoons.


Justice League was the point in the DCAU in which Batman began mutating into Wayniac and started being characterized as this smug ultimate warrior who never, ever trips up and is constantly outshining his teammates to the point where the other heroes look kind of incompetent next to him, and subsequently some fans tend to bombard you with rhetoric that he was a) a god or b) the only good character on the show, neither of which was correct. (Wolverine underwent this same mutation on the 90's X-Men cartoon.) So far Avengers has managed to keep a decent balance between its' individual team members and as yet hasn't had any character become overdone into Mary Sue status, so for that reason alone, I'll say A:EMH did a slightly better job in its' initial season, although I still enjoyed JL immensely.Good point. But I've seen complaints that Hawkeye is a little to badass. The one time I agreed with that assessment is when he was fleeing on the Avengers on rooftops and managed to outrun Captain America on a motorbike.

[ShadowStar]

I've only seen up to episode 18 of Avengers ("The Kang Dynasty"), but it isn't easy comparing the first 18 episodes of both shows... Avengers hasn't hit any emotional high points yet, like Wonder Woman's exile from Themiscayra at the end of "Paradise Lost part 2", but Avengers has already topped the first season of JL (but not the second) in terms of action - just look at "Come the Conqueror".

Avengers utilises the serialised storytelling format, so there's frequently a pay-off as plot strands are advanced, like Hawkeye getting framed by Black Widow early on, then later joining the Avengers. When things are planned in advance like that, and plot strands intersect, it's cool. But JL is by no means worse off simply because it doesn't have an ongoing story arc, and there's an intensity to bits like Aquaman losing his arm to save his son (and later having a tense showdown with Orm) that you won't find in Avengers.

Both teams, as of episode of 18 of both shows, have members who are difficult to like. In Avengers' case, Wasp. In JL's case, Hawkgirl. Wasp is the excitable rookie (almost Jubilee-like...) and Hawkgirl is just... there... (Hawkgirl became significantly better as JL went on, but I'm only comparing the first 18 episodes.)

As of episode 18, there are a few weak links in both voice casts. In Avengers, Iron Man and Wasp are the offenders. In JL, it's the Flash (maybe others too).

It's difficult to compare the two. They have their strengths and weaknesses, but I'd say that, overall, the first 18 episodes of Avengers are more interesting than the first 18 episodes of JL, even though the best moments of JL episodes 1-18 arguably trump the best moments of Avengers episodes 1-18. I can't see Avengers topping the second season of JL though...

Oh, and regarding this 'Bat-God' business, I don't think Batman made the other JL members look incompetent... especially not in season 1. OK, so he diffused a nuclear reactor (or whatever it was) in "The Enemy Below part 2", but you have to remember that Batman is very intelligent. He's pretty exceptional for an ordinary human at this point in time, which is why he's on the Justice League. Duh. (Besides, there's a division of Wayne Enterprises called Wayne Tech, is there not? Presumably, he studied all the tech that his company was inventing, which would explain his knowledge of nuclear reactors.) If you want to see an overpowered Batman, watch Batman: The Brave and the Bold. (Note: the fact that that show is deliberately ridiculous is not an excuse. :p)

[Rick Jones]

During it's first season, Justice League was never a show that really excited me while Avengers definitely has been. Justice League felt like a really competently made show that just didn't hold my interest as much as some it's contemporaries like Samurai Jack did. It just wasn't much fun to watch at times. Avengers has been a show that isn't perfect but always packs in so many things that blow my fanboy mind and keeps me looking forward to more.

[Lord Sidious]

They both represent their superheroes great.

Savage Time was more organized and overall better than the Avengers 3-part finale though.

But Avengers had a better 7-part intro.


They both have filler episodes that I skip:

JL fillers I skip: Legends and Metamorphosis

Avengers fillers I skip: 459, Everything is Wonderful, and Casket of Winters


That Ultron and Kang Arc were great but so were Paradise Lost, Blackest Night, and Enemy Below, Brave and the Bold also.

The action and animation of JL were better compared to the sometimes sloppy action from Avengers.

But more things happened in Avengers compared to JL on both their first season.


So for me it's a TIE

Both has to be watched to appreciate the superhero animation genre.

[Sockie]

Avengers fillers I skip: 459, Everything is Wonderful, and Casket of Winters


Really? You find those to be filler episodes? ... Really?

On-topic though, I've enjoyed A:EMH more than I did JL. Of course, that might be because I'm more of a Marvel fan than a DC fan...

[Crash]

While acknowledging that its a little unfair to compare two shows that were created more than a decade apart....I like the Avengers better. A couple reasons.

(First, I'm biased. I like the Avengers more than I like the JLA. If the JLI got a cartoon, that might be different. But on the whole, I'm more of an Avengers fan than a Justice League fan.)

As far as animation goes, JL may have been well-animated, but I never liked the character designs. Bruce Timm's style was just too...chunky. Every male character seemed to have the exact same bodytype, be he a speedster, a strong man, or a civilian in a business suit. That never felt right. Contrast that to the Avengers--specifically the scene in Widow's Sting where Cap and Hawkeye are seen confronting each other in profile: they are different heights, they have different body-types, they have radically different facial structures. They really look like totally different people. As a guy who was wowed by George Perez, and who sometimes tries to draw for fun...that really helps me enjoy the show.

And then far as characters go...admittedly, time has probably dulled my memory of the JL characters. But still, I'm pretty sure they never played off each other like the Avengers do. I know they never bickered and ripped on each other like the Avengers do! Green Lantern and Flash never watched and laughed as Wonder Woman knocked some combat sense into Hawk Girl (Like Hulk and Hawkeye watched Cap training Iron Man) Nobody ever seemed shocked by Superman's casual use of power. (Like the way Panther winced as Thor jovially clapped him on the shoulder) The Avengers are fun to watch, just to see thier personalities bounce off each other. Especially since so many of the Avengers feel like they come from completely different backgrounds. In comparison, the Justice League always felt...sort of the same. They had different traits, sure, but they still seemed to have the same perspective on a lot of things. Maybe that's time blurring the memory, but....

Story-wise...I like how the Avengers are constantly building their own continuity, and constantly upping the stakes to build to future events. Justice League didn't do that, but a season full of two-part epics was pretty darned impressive at the time. So, no fair comparing that.



It's difficult to compare the two. They have their strengths and weaknesses, but I'd say that, overall, the first 18 episodes of Avengers are more interesting than the first 18 episodes of JL, even though the best moments of JL episodes 1-18 arguably trump the best moments of Avengers episodes 1-18. I can't see Avengers topping the second season of JL though...



....Really?! Given that Kang pretty much told us that the Kree/Skrull war is coming? I think that story has a good chance of matching Starcrossed....

[macattack]

I'm more of a Marvel guy but I really did enjoy Justice League. When comparing the first 26 episodes of JL to the first 26 episodes of EMH, I think I have to give JL a slight edge.

JL's first 13 episodes aren't that great though there are some highlights. It's the next 13 when business kicks in. "Savage Time" may be the best superhero multi-parter there's ever been. It wowed me on so many levels. Nothing in EMH has been able to match that yet. I'm sure they're going to give it their best shot but "Savage Time" remains THE standard for a epic superhero multi-parter.

I think JL's animation was slightly superior as well. I think Timm's designs can be a little same-y but there's a steamlined appeal to them that I like. Avenger's designs look a little amateurish and clunky, and JL rarely had a serious animation gaffe while EMH has had either choppy action sequences or some off-model issues.

Voice cast I think they're about even and even have some of the same VAs. Both casts are competent and there's no real weaknesses. I admit that it's interesting to see an anime pedigree in EMH though. XD

But overall I think JL's first 26 episodes come out superior to EMH. I think there's just something there in JL, even though I'm not a DC guy, that gives JL a slight edge over EMH.

[ShadowStar]

....Really?! Given that Kang pretty much told us that the Kree/Skrull war is coming? I think that story has a good chance of matching Starcrossed....

"Starcrossed" was a powerful, emotional story. (Just watch part 3 again: truly worthy of being called intense and epic.) Topping it will not be easy. Besides, when has Avengers delivered a bone-crushing one-on-one duel like the final battle between Shayera and Hro Talak? Not to mention that the story itself was a massive game-changer affecting how the viewer saw Hawkgirl, not just in JLU, but in previous episodes of JL (since she was a spy).

It's not so hard to do a superheroes vs. aliens story like the Kang trilogy (though the quality of the action can be commendable in some cases), but Avengers has yet to fire on all cylinders like certain episodes of JL's second season did, let alone "Starcrossed" (the best JL story, not counting JLU).

[Capt. Speedbump]

Well, I voted for A:EMH. But I'll admit I'm biased.

I know way more about the Marvel Universe than I do about the DC Universe. I could identify most of the characters from A:EMH on sight. Meanwhile, in the "Young Justice" forums, people are talking about who the members of the Light may be and I'm completely lost.

There's just something about A:EMH that really speaks to me, I guess. I really look forward to each episode, more than any other animated show I can remember. It's been so long since I've seen Justice League Season 1 that I can't really remember how much I anticipated the next new episode, but I don't think it was quite at the level of A:EMH.

But this is all just a matter of opinion. If I say I prefer A:EMH over Justice League, that's not a statement about A:EMH or Justice League; it's a statement about Captain Speedbump.

[suss2it]

"Starcrossed" was a powerful, emotional story. (Just watch part 3 again: truly worthy of being called intense and epic.) Topping it will not be easy. Besides, when has Avengers delivered a bone-crushing one-on-one duel like the final battle between Shayera and Hro Talak? Not to mention that the story itself was a massive game-changer affecting how the viewer saw Hawkgirl, not just in JLU, but in previous episodes of JL (since she was a spy).

It's not so hard to do a superheroes vs. aliens story like the Kang trilogy (though the quality of the action can be commendable in some cases), but Avengers has yet to fire on all cylinders like certain episodes of JL's second season did, let alone "Starcrossed" (the best JL story, not counting JLU).Season 2 of JL isn't relevant to this topic. Season 2 of EMH hasn't come out yet, so we don't know if it'll top "Starcrossed" or not. Until then, let's leave S2 of JL out of the equation.

[JTMarsh]

Despite a few questionables (revealing Cap's origin to the entire 1940s public via news reels in "Meet Captain America", Cap beating up all the other Avengers in "Living Legend", Hawkeye's occasional invincibility), I found Avengers season 1 to be a lot smoother than Justice League season 1 in terms of storytelling.

[SuperChris]

"Which is better?" Chocolate or vanilla?

Vanilla.


Coke or Pepsi?

Coke... duh.


DC or Marvel?

Marvel... but in this case, I enjoyed Justice League Season 1 quite a bit more than A:EMH. The latter was good too though.

[ryandcow]

Impossible to choose. As good as JL is A:EMH is easily on the same plane. Whether it will pan out as well as JLU did only time will tell.

On the batman issue I'd say he makes solely superman appear incompetent. The most powerful character in the show, but he never is able to live up to that and Batman outshines him every time.

[Bat-Fan Beyond]

Do you want to know why Justice League is better than The Avengers?

Because Batman is in it. ;)

[ktk]

I think the overall animation and production was superior on Justice League. AEMH isn't bad, quite good in fact, but it doesn't feel up to the level of where JL was for its time.

However, the stories and characters on AEMH are noticably superior. JL had a lot of 2-parters that just didn't do anything for me. They just felt like random adventures that did virtually nothing to advance the story of the show or to help the characters grow. And when the characters did learn something about themselves, half the time it was only in the most superficial, afterschool-special, knowing-is-half-the-battle kind of way.

AEMH on the other hand had a season where just about every single episode felt like it was continuing the overall story, or growing the universe. When things happened, they felt important. They didn't feel like things that would be forgotten by next week's episode.

The characters on AEMH are far more interesting too. Thor, Iron Man, and Cap are all great heroes, and each would be worthy of the Justice League if they were in that universe, but their imperfections are frequently the genesis for a lot of the great story elements on the show. The Thor v Iron Man/magic v technology argument that lasted nearly the entire season was enjoyable. Hulk's continued outsider status and his attitude that he was always looked down on by the other Avengers makes for compelling action. You never know when the Hulk is just going to get up and leave the team.

Overall, I enjoyed AEMH far more than the first season of JL.

[Dragnatek]

Just season one? Avengers with out a doubt. Justice League Season one was a huge disappointment with some really bad episodes. Justice League really turned itself around with that far improved second season.

[capfan1]

Do you know why The Avengers is better?Because Captain America is in it and that's no joke.Seriously though AEMH has much more action and better stories.I didn't like justice leagues versions of green lantern and the flash,which are my 2 fav DC characters.I would prefer hal jordan and barry allen.I'm more a marvel fan also and do not see a reason to compare these shows.I'ts all a matter of who likes which universe better and the heroes in the shows.

[Avengers]

Avengers wins, JL had a bad first season while this had ongoing side stories and plot points that resulted in stuff, charecter development was there and because these guys are really second stringers its not ganna focus on people like bats, in my opinion if it does like JL and blows out an amazing second season it might just beat JL

[dgriffin]

I’m a huge DC fan, but just comparing first seasons the edge goes to Avengers because of the continued story arch throughout the whole season. I think Marvel has done a much better job in some of its animated shows of having a continuing story line. X-men (90s), Spiderman TAS, and Spectacular Spider to name a few. While those doing Batman TAS, Superman TAS didn’t get it right until JLU. Also, I thought what gave season one of AEMH the edge was starting the season with single episode background stories of the major characters. That was a great idea to help those of us who really didn’t know much background about Thor, Wasp, Antman, etc…. However, the writers and producers of AEMH are really going to have to step it up if they’re going to rise to the level of JLU season one, which in IMO is greatest single season of a superhero based cartoon. But as far as first seasons go AEMH takes the win hands down.

BTW - does anyone ever think we’ll get an animated TV show or movie featuring Marvel and DC heroes together? And none of that heroes fighting heroes or Amalgam university stuff. I’m talking about heroes from both DC and Marvel coming together to fight a common foe. I would love to see that.

[suss2it]

BTW - does anyone ever think we’ll get an animated TV show or movie featuring Marvel and DC heroes together? And none of that heroes fighting heroes or Amalgam university stuff. I’m talking about heroes from both DC and Marvel coming together to fight a common foe. I would love to see that.I would love to see something like that too. Although I think it'd work better as a movie. However I highly doubt that DC and Marvel will sort out all the rights and get motivated to do something like that.