Justice League "Fury, Parts 1 & 2" Talkback (Spoilers) [Archive]

Samhaine

04-07-2002, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by DerekPowers
So heres some questions:

1. does WW in JL not have her alter ego diana prince? cause, if she did, wouldnt she go shopping in the beginning in her human disquise?

2. i never really understood the whole amazons hating man thing. my question is how are new amazons born w/ no men?? or better yet, how were the existing amazons born w/out men? any ideas?
Let's see if I can help you out here, shall I?

1. In the comics, there is no Diana Prince. That alter ego never came to be in George Perez's relaunch. The post-CRISIS WW always, as far as I know, had her identity, Diana, out in the open.

2. Well, Themyscira is an island "outside of time", which means that you don't really age there. All the amazons, while on Paradise Island, are immortal. No need for reproduction. And, according to (among many things) the recently released Wonder Woman Secret Files & Origins #3, the Amazons were created by the gods, and the only new amazon, Diana, was formed from clay and then given power from the gods (which is why she can fly, etc). Therefore, they have no real need of men, as they aren't sustaining a race by procreating.

Hope I could be of help!

EDIT: Looks like TheHuntressDiana beat me to it! :p

TheHuntressDiana

04-07-2002, 08:04 PM

Not totally bloodone...I forgot about the 2nd half of the second question. :)

Batman 80

04-07-2002, 08:07 PM

How did Batman deal with Solomon Grundy?

TheHuntressDiana

04-07-2002, 08:11 PM

Electric batarang....

Samhaine

04-07-2002, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Batman 80
How did Batman deal with Solomon Grundy?
Batman threw a batarang at Grundy, and Grundy caught it. Only, the thing is, it's an electrically charged batarang. So it knocked Grundy out.

LOL, yet again, THD. We're both a little enthusiastic to answer the questions tonight :D

Batman 80

04-07-2002, 08:13 PM

Did Supes get to throw down with Grundy at all?

Samhaine

04-07-2002, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by Batman 80
Did Supes get to throw down with Grundy at all?
Nope, I don't think he even got a glimps of Grundy.

TheHuntressDiana

04-07-2002, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by bloodone
LOL, yet again, THD. We're both a little enthusiastic to answer the questions tonight :D

I gotta get my replies in. I've got an early start tomorrow (work week) so I'm usually off to bed by the time the West Coast gets to see it. :)

Livewire

04-07-2002, 08:26 PM

4 stars

I liked this episode. But like others have said before me, it would have been nice to see "Injustice for all" first, since there were so many referances alluding to it.

It was also nice to see Aresia's background. I felt sorry for her, with all that had happened in her past.

The second part indeed looks very interesting . All the male JLers have the allergen, which means it's up to WW and Hawkgirl. I can't wait to see how they'll cope.

That's all I have time to write for now. I'll probably post more comments later.

Samhaine

04-07-2002, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Livewire
since there were so many referances alluding to it.

Out of curiousity, what did you find to be references to I4A, as the only one I could find was when The Shade mentions that he worked for Luthor. Hardly ruins the episode, IMO.

JohnStewart-GL

04-07-2002, 08:36 PM

Did Mcduffie write this

Mister Intensity

04-07-2002, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by TheHuntressDiana
In this incarnation, no. Not even in the comics.

I'm not sure about "these" amazons. But the Amazons of the current comic book series had a grudge. Due to the fact that it was actions of Hercules (Heracles) and his men (captured, raped and pillaged their city), that the Amazons were sent to the Island as a form of punishment.

Maybe we'll get more of an explination in the next episode.

But Aresia...I think her hate comes from the destruction of her village...at the hands of men.

In Justice League continuity everything Heracles done to the Amazons and Hippolyta in the comic books is attributed to Hades (as told in Paradise Lost). The main reason for the change is because Hercules is often portrayed as a hero in popular media (television shows, cartoons, movies, etc.) while conveniently ignoring the less than heroic things he has done in the myths.

Mister Intensity

nothing

04-07-2002, 08:38 PM

That is the only allusion to IFA. In fact, he doesn't say he worked on a team for Luthor... he just said he's worked for Luthor before.

I thought it was amusing that Batman was the only one to deduce what the virus was doing to the population... well, that and snagging Aresia's necklace during their fight. The Dark Knight Detective is the man!

TheHuntressDiana

04-07-2002, 08:49 PM

I do wish they had shown Injustice For All before this episode, but it doesn't appear to make much of a difference since (so far) the only refrence is to Luthor by name only.

warmachine04

04-07-2002, 08:50 PM

Overall, "Fury Part 1" was quite good but I felt that it could of been polished up a bit better. The epsiode focuses well around the characters of Wonderwoman and Hawkgirl. The scenes of WW learning about the modern people and their customs, and Hawkgirl's arrival on Themyscira were my absolute favorites. Batman also shined in this episode. I was impressed with the appearance of the "Injustice Gang" (Solomon Grunfy, Shade, Copperhead and Star Sapphire) but I expected a little more. With a troubled past and Amazonian upbringing, the character of Aresia has the potential of being one of the best villians in the series so far. The only negative point was the lack of effort of the other male members especially Superman. I give "Fury Part 1": :) :) :) 1/2 / 5 :).

Memphis Bleek

04-07-2002, 08:55 PM

For the first 3 minutes I thought I was watching B:TAS, but that was okay. Bats fight with the injustice gang was well done. I always thought that the episode was well paced. Supes got ruffed up by another Amazon. Aresia's past was interesting. The Injustice gang was awesome especially Sakuri, Star Shappire, and Aresia. I can't wait for next week episode!

Venom

04-07-2002, 09:01 PM

I thought it was a very good episode. I enjoyed the scenes with Batman at the beginning. I was disappointed with Superman's scuffle with Aresia... he could have at least had a small fight before getting gased. I liked Shades comment about how he liked working for Aresia better than Luthor. Grundy was also faster than I thought he would be when he fought Batman. I can't wait to see part 2.

batwing53

04-07-2002, 09:02 PM

I enjoyed this episode a lot.

I liked many scenes....and of course Superman got roughed up.....AGAIN. I liked the scene where Hawkgirl says, "I wonder what a girl would do in her predictament" or something in the Batwing, and Batman probably knew how it felt. I liked the Injustice Gang; lot of references to the episode that hasn't aired yet.

Batman 80

04-07-2002, 09:09 PM

Did the male members of the Injustice Gang get infected as well?

Venom

04-07-2002, 09:12 PM

Aresia threw a gas grenade at them at the end, and the scenes from next week didn't have them hanging around with her and the female member... so I assume they did.

The New Batman

04-07-2002, 09:13 PM

I gave it 4 1/2 stars. This was the first really good episode, in my opinion, other than the first. I didn't give it a 5 star rating, because as usual, Superman was weak.

The Green Hornet

04-07-2002, 09:14 PM

another I4A reference was when Grundy said

What about the Justice League? i dont wanna have to fight THEM again (a CLEAR reference to Flash's story in B&B-- Solomon Grundy THOUGHT he got the drop on me-- but he DIDNT? ya know whY? cause im the Flash the Fastest Man Alive!

BeastBoyWonder

04-07-2002, 09:18 PM

Nice plot, action, and use of characters. I liked the little details, like how Hawkgirl talked about orphans and Batman was in front of her...

Caped Crusader

04-07-2002, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by bloodone

Out of curiousity, what did you find to be references to I4A, as the only one I could find was when The Shade mentions that he worked for Luthor. Hardly ruins the episode, IMO.

I noticed another one. Solomon Grundy seemed afraid of the JL, and he said he didn't want to fight them again. But, his comment didn't make much sense, because he's never even met the JL before! I guess it's pretty obvious he got a bad beating from the JL in "Injustice For All". Anyway, I'm with all the other people who said they should've shown "Injustice For All" first.

But, with the references aside (and some cases of weak dialogue, plus this wimpy version of Superman), I think this was a very good episode. Aresia seems like an interesting character. I'm really looking forward to seeing part two. :)

mbaker

04-07-2002, 09:30 PM

That was A cool episode. Grundy looks pretty big this time around, and reminds me of the Hulk. Mark Hamil's voice for Grundy sounded amazingly different from what I'm use to, and it fits him quite nicely. I also like Diana's wide eyed sense of wonder in the department store. It was also nice to see Hippolyta again. The only "Injustice For All" reference was when The Shade said "A definite improvement over Luthor".

Livewire

04-07-2002, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by bloodone

Out of curiousity, what did you find to be references to I4A, as the only one I could find was when The Shade mentions that he worked for Luthor. Hardly ruins the episode, IMO.

Bloodone, I never said it did ruin the ep. However, it looks as if others have beaten me to the Solomon Grundy reference I was also referring to. He clearly had gone up against the JL before, and I assume it was in "Injustice for all." This episode just seemed...out of order. I mean, where did the Gang come from? How did it get started? It would have been better if those questions had already been answered.

Spaceman Spiff

04-07-2002, 09:35 PM

Pretty good episode. And I, for one, didn't feel the references to IFA to be that distracting. Aresia must've been pretty confident the gas would work on Supes. Maybe she wasn't really aware he's an alien, though. Grundy, too, now that I think about it.

Failure

04-07-2002, 10:02 PM

2 quick questions:

Is Grundy stronger/tougher than Bane?

I thought Superman was impervious to Earth germs? So I guess there must've been some magic involved in Aresia's germ warfar conconction.

Lab_Rat

04-07-2002, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by Venom
I was disappointed with Superman's scuffle with Aresia... he could have at least had a small fight before getting gased.

Maybe so, but if you planned ahead for a battle with Superman (which she obviously had) wouldn't you gas him ASAP. She got the drop on Batman by being an unknown. She couldn't count on the same thing working on any of the other JLers in a second encounter.

Batman 80

04-07-2002, 10:32 PM

Great episode! The Injustice Gang are by far the best villains they have shown so far. Grundy is HUGE! Can't wait for part 2!

Barb Gordon

04-07-2002, 10:35 PM

Yeah you said it, Grundy is massive! Seems like a pretty neat ep so far, and certainly left me wanting to see the second part VERY soon. Man, the guys are so getting jacked, huh? Major girls episode, unless Batman is able to stay healthy. I loved when Hawkgirl said that one line in front of Batman and he just gave a glance: "It's hard to imagine what an impact that could have on a child". Something like that, it was perfect.

Barb^-^

Batman 80

04-07-2002, 10:44 PM

I wonder if Aresia will become a new arch enemy for Diana. She's a cool character(she's pretty too). This episode seems like a tease for Injustice for All.

GL2k2

04-07-2002, 11:00 PM

Cartoon Network is stupid. Isn't sweeps season in Febuary? They missed their chance to air "Injustice For All". I could have waited for "Fury", and Bruce Timm said their were no references to I4A, yeah right. All in all, it was a pretty cool episode, I just don't like the fact that I'm missing something. This isn't like Star Wars or Pulp Fiction where their is an unfilmed backstory, this actually has a produced episode that just wasn't shown. CN sucks.

Houman

04-07-2002, 11:00 PM

One of the better overall, but:

-the animation was spotty, especially the faces of people

-Superman didn't need to get beat up. He could have overpowered Aresia but just as he's about to totally stop her she gases him. That way, he still gets gassed but doesn't come end up being Superwuss.

Harvey Dent

04-07-2002, 11:32 PM

Re: Injustice For All:

I predict (something that I don't usually do) that Injustice For All will be the second-to-last episode broadcasted by CN, with the last ep being the season finale, The Savage Time. Then again, CN might pull another swerve and make IFA the last episode of the season. Sucks, but I wouldn't be surprised.

William C. Maune

04-08-2002, 01:17 AM

[indent]Do we even know if Injustice For All is ready to air? Maybe there was something wrong with the episode and it had to be sent back for more work.

Samhaine

04-08-2002, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by AFXanatos
Do we even know if Injustice For All is ready to air? Maybe there was something wrong with the episode and it had to be sent back for more work.
There was an article on the newspage a little bit ago that quoted Timm as saying that they weren't retinkering the ep. Sorry.

William C. Maune

04-08-2002, 02:02 AM

"There was an article on the newspage a little bit ago that quoted Timm as saying that they weren't retinkering the ep. Sorry."

[indent]Do you have a link to the story? I looked through the past sixty days news and I could not find anything. The closest thing I came across was Bruce Timm's comment saying the delay didn't involve anything extra special being added for the fans, but this doesn't mean there weren't any problems to be fixed with the episode.

Christo

04-08-2002, 02:45 AM

Average episode, with a few nice moments, the best of which was the Hawkgirl comment about orphans.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm sick of Superman getting his butt kicked and Batman looking like he can do everything himself. If the writers want to go back to writing a Batman show, fine. Until then, I'd like a little more balance.

And why was Diana shopping in her costume? She's been in Man's World for at least eight months, and she has nothing else to wear? Are the producers afraid the audience won't recognize her otherwise? I hate it when they write down to us.

Still feels like a kid's show. I enjoy it, but it's just not there yet.

Squall

04-08-2002, 03:00 AM

This episode was awesome!

Everything is falling into place now. All we have to see is "Injustice For All" and it'll all fall together like a well-placed puzzle. Huzzah! :D

Some people complained that Batman handled the mostly present IG by himself, but Superman was a wimp again. Well...

Batman got a few good early hits on the IG in the opening scene, but he did get his butt handed to him in the end. But those few early hits make sense, since (a) Batman probably knew the IG was there, (b) he would therefore have some kind of backup plan ready if possible, since he had faced them before in "Injustice For All," and (c) he would at least try to distract them until other JL members showed up.

As for Superman... he never had a chance to do anything, so how could he have been a wimp in this episode? They traded punches once, then Aresia gassed him. Aresia is no idiot, and she had the element of surprise on Superman. So I don't think Superman was a wimp at all in this episode. (He didn't have a chance to show his strength, but you understand my point.) :)

All the little details I loved about this episode has been brought up already, so I'll just end with this: Justice League keeps getting better all the time! :D

FLIPMODE

04-08-2002, 03:27 AM

I liked it.

Cons:
But something felt weird. Maybe the Pace, Or maybe, the elongated scene where Aresia is walking towards the camera. I almost fell asleep. Speed up the scene you silly animators! There's no reason for me to see an animated lady slowly walking to the camera, for more than 2 seconds. I GET IT!
And some parts of Aresi'a Past especially the Boat scene Seemed Slow. ALMOST like they we're sure just how they were going to Damage the boat, they took their time...then BAM, they shoot it, and it sinks like Titanic.

Also CN Sucks a big rotten Egg. They stink. We should have without a doubt have seen IFA first. If you dont know DC comics: WHO ARE THESE VILLAINS??! They deserve a PROPER entrance into the show, which Im sure they get in IFA. With this one first, they're just on the Screen, and you have NO feelings about them.
It almost makes me feel that CN is sabbotaging the Justice League Show.

Pro: Anyhow, Batman did great. He Should be able to take out that whole Squad, especially if they're messing around in Gotham. Which they were. Supes was typed cast again, as the wimpy nerd. And team interaction seemed organized this time. Also good.

Weird: WW in the Store with her costume on. How sad, and How Superfirendish! I dont Like when JL reminds me of Superfirends. And what's worst is the people in the Store(not outside the store) dont even think it's WEIRD what she's wearing.

Good Episode.

P.S.-
At the end of the episode did anyone Notice GL collapse head first into WW's chest area? :o Very weird. Sure it's nothing, but me and my girlfriend just had to turn and look at eachother after that happened. It was strangely animated. We kept joking about how he was faking illness, and landed there on purpose. :D

Mattashell

04-08-2002, 03:29 AM

Someone asked if the germs were "magical".

My guess is yes, because crushed up gemstones were part of the formula. I don't think normal germ warfare involves that.

and yes, Dwayne McDuffie co-wrote. His name was at the beginning.

My thoughts: This is the first ep since the pilot that I have truly enjoyed. There's not much to elaborate on that hasn't been said.

Blight

04-08-2002, 10:26 AM

Excellent episode. This was the first episode since the pilot with the entire JL, which was an added bonus to this already fantastic episode. My favorite part was definitely when Batman took down half of the IG himself! My only problem with this episode was not with the episode itself, but that CN aired a commercial for part 2 before part 1 was even over, and some stuff was spoiled! For instance, we now know Batman gets infected next! Poor Batsy. :( Anyways, I'd say this was the best episode since "Paradise Lost", and I give it 5 stars!

See ya!
Blight

Karkull

04-08-2002, 10:50 AM

This episode was a load of fun. It was well written, had all the League members in it, and the main villain had a good motivation. My favorite part of the episode, believe it or not, was just seeing the Injustice Gang members interact with each other--something we haven't seen since the Superman episode Double Dose. The interplay between the Shade and Copperhead, Grundy & Copperhead's attempts to get Aresia's attention, and Star Sapphire gem fetish were all well played. I want more...

Aresia was an interesting villain (with a good origin), but I don't entirely know...who she is. She looks like the Fury, a supporting member from Wonder Woman's cast, and the episode is called Fury, but her name is Aresia. Is Aresia her real name, or is it just her new Amazon name (which she might have been given as part of her rebirth process)? Is her original name still Helena Kosmatos and, furthermore, will she start calling herself the Fury in Part 2?

Another question: who the hell is Tsukuri? I have never heard of her. The only thing that I can figure out is that she knows about Aresia's plan (notice how she backed up right before Aresia dropped her gas bomb).

Otherwise the episode was pretty sharp. Batman's battle with the Gang was cool, as was Hawkgirl's interaction with the Amazons. The only problem with the episode was (cue broken record) Superman going down so fast. Hey, we get the idea that he needs the League already!

Apache Chief

04-08-2002, 11:04 AM

Did anyone else notice where Green Lantern's head ended up when he passed out after arriving at the Watchtower? Way to go GL!

Copperhead looked ridiculous. He should just have a snake head, instead of a fanged human head sticking out from under the snamke mask. But I'm being a nitpicking fanboy aren't I? Oh well. Cool ep.!

Justice League 2000

04-08-2002, 01:04 PM

hello friends that was a cool episode solomon voice was good mark hamil is so good and ovilia d abo voice was sweet playing star sapphire and who voice copperhead? :)

DisneyBoy

04-08-2002, 01:24 PM

Ok, I haven't read anything here on this thread cause I don't want to spoil anything for myself! However, I'm dying to know if there appears to be any chance that ARES, God of War might be involved/and or mentionned in this story?

If this is a major plot point or surprise please tell me you can't answer, however if he's mentionned in passing and it doesn't really affect the story- Let me know!!!

Thanks

( :yawn: closes eyes and backs out of thread trying not to see anything!)

Batman 80

04-08-2002, 02:00 PM

There is no Ares.

DisneyBoy

04-08-2002, 02:16 PM

:eek: ....but....but....Aries ia ....I thought....but.... :eek:

:( :( :( WWAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGHHHHHH :( :( :(

Karkull

04-08-2002, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by DisneyBoy
:eek: ....but....but....Aries ia ....I thought....but.... :eek:

:( :( :( WWAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGHHHHHH :( :( :(

You know, I thought that Ares would be involved as well. Go figure...

...However, on the other hand, maybe Aresia is being possessed by Ares to do what she's doing. It's not as ridiculous as it sounds--I think that Fury was possessed by the Furies in the comic books at one point.

DisneyBoy

04-08-2002, 02:36 PM

hm.....so it is possible that Ariesia could be under his control! :) :) :) :)

TheHuntressDiana

04-08-2002, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by DisneyBoy
hm.....so it is possible that Ariesia could be under his control! :) :) :) :)

I seriously doubt it.

I don't see Ares as a "man hating" God...

CadaverousEyes

04-08-2002, 03:05 PM

As cool as it was, seeing Batman take down half of the Injustice Gang, it's given me doubts about Injustice for All. If he can take them out, how are they going to be able to be (or how were they) a threat to the entire team? Maybe it's just because they stupidly tried to fight one at a time rather than gang up on him. They should have known better.

I wonder what was going on in Superman's head when the woman in Amazonian garb surrendered and held out the gem so he could take it. A similiar occurance happened in STAS and he paid for being so naive. However, he was a rookie back then. I don't care about power fluctuations, I want competent Superman back.

Regardless of the criticisms, I did enjoy this episode. A good set-up to what I hope will be non-stop thrills in part 2. Oh, and was this the first appearance of token black Amazon? I don't recall seeing her there before. Here's hoping she has a stronger presence in future Themyscira episodes!

Justice League 2000

04-08-2002, 03:11 PM

why did aresia throw a gas bomb at solomon grundy star shappire and coperhead and shade and that ninja woman?
and I saw all 7 members in the episode fury. it was well written
superman could be more stronger than aresia. superman get in beat up very bad by a woman is very very bad. :(
and are sure people that ARES is control in aresia?

Spider

04-08-2002, 03:13 PM

Doublecross? That's all I could think of when I saw her do that. Other possibilities?

DisneyBoy

04-08-2002, 03:29 PM

...Ares doesn't have to be a man hating god to be a war loving God!

...Being able to possess Ariesia gave him the ability to have her start a plague. With the male half of the population dead and gone, and the women running the show, they could....

...ah, you know what? I can't make it make sense! :rolleyes: (blushes) Seriously, killing off the male half of the population to start a world war doesn't make sense, and it's been already done at nauseum everytime Aries shows up. Besides the name Ariesia is too obvious. Then again, did they actually explain the origin of her name?

I guess I'm so desperate to see Aries that I'm trying to will it into reality.

Terminatah

04-08-2002, 03:48 PM

I don't think Injustice For All was necessary before Fury, as Fury stands independent of Injustice, aside from a few minor comments by the characters. When Injustice airs, we can just think of it as a prequel.

I thought Fury was great. There have been past episodes where part 1 was little more than a setup for part 2, but this episode was pretty well-rounded. The shopping scene at the beginning was an awesome addition; I've always loved it when humor can be integrated into an action story gracefully and without camp.

We can expect part 2 to be a good one.

-Terminatah

DerekPowers

04-08-2002, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by CadaverousEyes
As cool as it was, seeing Batman take down half of the Injustice Gang, it's given me doubts about Injustice for All. If he can take them out, how are they going to be able to be (or how were they) a threat to the entire team? Maybe it's just because they stupidly tried to fight one at a time rather than gang up on him. They should have known better.

you cant forget that IFA will have JOKER and Lex. and we already know joker is a formadible opponent for the bat on his own, add Luthor to the mix plus cheetha and ultrahumanite (who werent in fury) and id say the JL would have a serious challenge.

BUT not to change the subject, but can someone explain the whole "FURY"/aresia thing? from previous posts it seems fury is an exisiting ww villain, who looks like aresia?? and since the episode is called fury, what does this all mean??

and is there no way ares is involved? anyone know the official word on that? thanks, peace.

Batman 80

04-08-2002, 05:05 PM

There is no Ares. Thank God for that because we don't need anymore greek gods to appear.

Bud 'n Lou

04-08-2002, 05:11 PM

Another thing I forgot to mention...at the end of the episode, we find out that Aresia's gas is designed to decimate only the male population. The fact that when she gassed the Injustice Gang, we only see the men collapse, but the women are nowhere in sight makes it seem to me like they were waiting til the last moment (which was Batman and Hawkgirl's exchange on the rooftop while watching the chaos below) to reveal that the gas didn't affect women. And it would've been a pretty cool revelation...had we not all seen that it was going to happen in the commercial for the episode. That bugged me.
OK, carry on.

JohnStewart-GL

04-08-2002, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by FLIPMODE
I liked it.

Cons:
But something felt weird. Maybe the Pace, Or maybe, the elongated scene where Aresia is walking towards the camera. I almost fell asleep. Speed up the scene you silly animators! There's no reason for me to see an animated lady slowly walking to the camera, for more than 2 seconds. I GET IT!
And some parts of Aresi'a Past especially the Boat scene Seemed Slow. ALMOST like they we're sure just how they were going to Damage the boat, they took their time...then BAM, they shoot it, and it sinks like Titanic.

Also CN Sucks a big rotten Egg. They stink. We should have without a doubt have seen IFA first. If you dont know DC comics: WHO ARE THESE VILLAINS??! They deserve a PROPER entrance into the show, which Im sure they get in IFA. With this one first, they're just on the Screen, and you have NO feelings about them.
It almost makes me feel that CN is sabbotaging the Justice League Show.

Pro: Anyhow, Batman did great. He Should be able to take out that whole Squad, especially if they're messing around in Gotham. Which they were. Supes was typed cast again, as the wimpy nerd. And team interaction seemed organized this time. Also good.

Weird: WW in the Store with her costume on. How sad, and How Superfirendish! I dont Like when JL reminds me of Superfirends. And what's worst is the people in the Store(not outside the store) dont even think it's WEIRD what she's wearing.

Good Episode.

P.S.-
At the end of the episode did anyone Notice GL collapse head first into WW's chest area? :o Very weird. Sure it's nothing, but me and my girlfriend just had to turn and look at eachother after that happened. It was strangely animated. We kept joking about how he was faking illness, and landed there on purpose. :D
my main man John knows Just wear to fall down, Huh?

Theking

04-08-2002, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by JTurner954

Anyway, good stuff. I think I've finally got used to Superman's new voice.

It will take longer for me, I really liked his old voice alot.
I don't really like the new one, too wimpy for me - man of steel should have a stronger voice, this voice is a good clark Kent voice.

TheKing

Captain Sarcasm

04-08-2002, 06:06 PM

Why did the gas affect Solomon Grundy? The guy's a zombie, isn't he? You generally need to inhale a gas for it to take an effect, and for that you need working lungs, which generally means that you are alive. Grundy being affected is on the level of a porkchop that came from a male pig keeling over.

Well, you know what I mean, anyway. Gases, toxins, allergens, they only work on living things. Zombies check the box marked "not applicable".

Knight

04-08-2002, 07:29 PM

I found this to be a enjoyable episode. It had one of the most exciting beginings to a ep I'd ever seen with Batman taking down the Injustice Gang. Some people complain, but Batman is the master of being prepared he had already scoped out the gang and planned out his attack. The only surprsie was Areisa who he had no knowledge of or he would have used a different attack than trying to bind her with the rope. Same goes for Superman he wasnt expecting her to be as strong as she was so he too was caught off guard and was fully prepared to put her down after he had seen her ability but she hit him with the gas.

The only other thing I found odd was Wonder Womans complete mistrust of Batmans theory of the crime being commeted by a amazon. She should know by now Batmans is The Worlds Greatest Detective and almost never wrong she have a little more trust in his findings. He ended up having to go get Hawkgirl to do some recon for him.

JusticeLeagueLegion

04-08-2002, 08:02 PM

This was an excelent episode...all seven Leaguers...outstanding! I heard that all members would be in the "Injustice For All" episode as well. It sure was great to see all of them in action...I like the Amazon leader, and Star Sapphire, and Solomon Grundy, that ninja girl as well. But everyone else didn't impress me that much...maybe Shade...but definitly NOT Copperhead...I've never liked him...but at least they made him a little better in animated form. Can't wait to see "Injustice For All" so we can see the entire Injustice Gang...with Luthor, Joker and Cheetah...that's what makes the Injustice Gang!! (In my opinion)

Karkull

04-08-2002, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by Bud 'n Lou
Another thing I forgot to mention...at the end of the episode, we find out that Aresia's gas is designed to decimate only the male population. The fact that when she gassed the Injustice Gang, we only see the men collapse, but the women are nowhere in sight makes it seem to me like they were waiting til the last moment (which was Batman and Hawkgirl's exchange on the rooftop while watching the chaos below) to reveal that the gas didn't affect women.

Watch it again: right before Aresia gassed the Injustice Gang Tsukuri (the ninja) stepped back, clueing us in that she is aware of her plan. Aresia only gassed Grundy, Shade, Copperhead, and Star Sapphire.

Frank White

04-08-2002, 11:55 PM

Yeah she was acting a little shady. I also noticed that at the gem depository she wanted to stay with Aresia.... maybe shes an agent of Luthor's or Ares. Oh yeah and did anybody else notice that when GL flew into the Watchtower he was just carrying the Flash normally? Wouldn't he have asphxyated in space?

JohnStewart-GL

04-09-2002, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by Frank White
Yeah she was acting a little shady. I also noticed that at the gem depository she wanted to stay with Aresia.... maybe shes an agent of Luthor's or Ares. Oh yeah and did anybody else notice that when GL flew into the Watchtower he was just carrying the Flash normally? Wouldn't he have asphxyated in space?
i guess he protected him with his ring
oh and i don't know much about JSS ring but wouldb't it protect him from disease?

Theking

04-09-2002, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by JohnStewart-GL

oh and i don't know much about JSS ring but wouldb't it protect him from disease?

You just beat me to it, I was wondering if his ring only protected him if it was activated and he was inside the bubble.
I was supprized that Batman didn't have a gas mask on when on the rooftop with Hawkgirl, he is usually more carful.

TheKing

Maxie Zeus

04-09-2002, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by GL2k2
Cartoon Network is stupid. Isn't sweeps season in Febuary? They missed their chance to air "Injustice For All". I could have waited for "Fury", and Bruce Timm said their were no references to I4A, yeah right.

Timm didn't say there were no references. He said that "Fury" would make perfect sense even without seeing "I4A."

Frankly, I don't see why everyone is so upset about a supposed lapse in "continuity" just because "Fury" debuted before "I4A." Yeah, I don't like seeing "I4A" pushed back, because it sounds like a very cool episode. (News plug: Check out Toon Zone's story (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28727) about the character designs of the IG in "I4A." Yeah, some of them we've seen now in "Fury," but there's some neat stuff about Luthor.) But the show is designed to be rerun endlessly, at which point it doesn't matter which one "debuted" first.

I mean, does anyone here still care that "Holiday Knights" debuted before "Growing Pains"? Does anyone even remember? If you didn't know, could you have guessed?

SimonMoon5

04-09-2002, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by knightraven2
Hmm, Star Sapphire is british? Never considered that.

Of course, in the comics, one Star Sapphire was American and another was French.

Overall, a decent episode. Here are my complaints:

(1) Okay, Batman can beat the whole Injustice League by himself. So why will we need to waste two episodes with the whole Justice League fighting them? (This is not a complaint about *this* episode, but rather a potential complaint about a future episode, which should've been a past episode.)

Actually, as I watched, I was thinking that Batman was lucky that he was by himself, since the animators always have one character attack just one other character; it is impossible for people to attack at the same time since it is too hard to animate. In the past, this has been a disadvantage to the Justice League who are usually fighting one enemy as a group. But for Batman by himself, this works out, since the Injustice League can't gang up on him.

(2) I agree with what other people are saying. This is a "cartoon" not an "animated series". What made me feel this way in this particular episode was Star Sapphire. The one thing I absolutely loathe is when a character has one over-done personality trait and no other personality traits. It's a quick and easy way to show the viewer what the character is like (so it feels like the writers taking a shortcut) without actually making the character believable. So, Star Sapphire is obsessed with gems... despite the fact that she already has the best gem she could hope to get. I couldn't help but think of that female mouse character from Warner Brothers cartoons who repeats the line, "I love cheese. Rahlly I do." And that's her only personality trait.

(3) While there aren't a lot of stupid plot gaffes, unlike previous episodes, mainly since we don't know what's going on yet, one remaining factor bothered me, something which has bothered me about each episode so far: the episodes are too freakin' short. Finally, Batman said his line, "The male half," which I had been waiting for (since it was in the previews), and I was thinking, "Okay, time for the episode to actually get started."

Get started? No, that was the end of the episode! What the--

So, I felt like this episode was just a 30 minute (or 10 minutes without commercials) trailer for next week's episode.

SimonMoon5

04-09-2002, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by DerekPowers

BUT not to change the subject, but can someone explain the whole "FURY"/aresia thing? from previous posts it seems fury is an exisiting ww villain, who looks like aresia??

Hold onto your hats, this is another continuity nightmare.

First, back in the day, there were two (actually more, but I'm trying to keep it simple) Earths. One Earth (Earth-2) was where the heroes of the Golden Age comics lived, while the other Earth (Earth-1) was where the modern-day heroes (of the 1960s-1980s) lived. On Earth-2, Wonder Woman married Steve Trevor and had a daughter (Lyta Trevor, named after Wonder Woman's mother Hippolyta). Lyta Trevor grew up to have powers like those of her mother. She ended up joining up with other children (and etc) of other Golden Age Heroes who first tried to join the Justice Society, but then had to settle for their own group, called Infinity Inc.

Then, Crisis happened. There were not two (or more) earths anymore. There was only one Earth with a consistent (ha!) past. There was only one Wonder Woman, and it wasn't the Golden Age version. So who was Fury's mother?

Enter a group of characters called the Young All-Stars, consisting of "close enough" versions of characters eliminated by the Crisis (such as the Golden Age Wonder Woman). One such Young All Star was Fury... the "Golden Age Fury", that is.

The Golden Age Fury was Helena Kosmatos, a character who got her powers from one of the mythical Furies; she could only retain her powers as long as she retained her virginity, which became one of her subplots. At some unspecified point, she had a daughter (who became the Modern Age Fury, Helena Trevor), and then disappeared, presumably without powers.

Well, if the Golden Age Fury disappeared, who raised Lyta, the Modern Age Fury? Enter another character, DC's Miss America (actually a Quality character purchased by DC). Miss America lost her powers and married a man with the last name of Trevor and effectively adopted Lyta.

But the story doesn't end there. Without a Wonder Woman in World War II, there were still a number of holes to fill. Who could take Wonder Woman's place? Well, the Golden Age Fury partially did, and the rest of the slack was taken up by Miss America.

And everything finally made sense. Enter John Byrne.

John Byrne had taken over the writing and art of the Wonder Woman comic. He decided to deal with the holes left by the absence of a Golden Age Wonder Woman (even though those holes had already been plugged).

In the modern day, Wonder Woman was temporarily dead and a goddess, so her mother, Hippolyta, took her place, and was being called Wonder Woman. Well, eventually, she ended up in a time travel story, taking her back to World War II. After making sure not to kill Hitler too early, since that would change history, she decided to spend some time with the Justice Society back in the 1940's, so that she could change history.

So, now there was a Wonder Woman in the Justice Society again, despite the fact that Wonder Woman (Princess Diana) had been something completely new when she first arrived in Man's World in the modern day, so much so that her publicist came up with the name "Wonder Woman" for her; it was not meant as a legacy-name, and wouldn't have worked as a legacy.

So, then what happened to Fury and Fury?

Well, the Modern Age Fury became pregnant by the Silver Scarab (Hawkman and Hawkgirl's son) who died and became a version of the red-and-yellow Kirby Sandman. She went with him to the realm of dreams, where Morpheus (starring in "Sandman") stated that it was not proper for the dead to walk the Earth and caused the Silver Scarab/Sandman to die again (though he later came back as another Doctor Fate). This ticked off Fury who was used by the Furies to kill Morpheus, and her son (Daniel) took over Morpheus' role. Fury is currently in a coma, which Dr. Fate (Silver Scarab and Sandman) is trying to cure.

The Golden Age Fury was seen alone and powerless in an issue of Sandman, as some crazy old woman. However, we later learned that in the Golden Age, she had somehow obsessed with Hippolyta-as-Wonder-Woman, and thought of her as her mother. She then got her powers and youth back (and some new equipment) and attacked Wonder Woman (Princess Diana) for taking all of Hippolyta's attention. Things eventually worked out, and Fury went to live on the new version of Paradise Island, after the old one was destroyed during Our Worlds at War.

However, Aresia reminds me more of Donna Troy (Wonder Girl) as a human orphan girl who is given powers by the Amazons (well, that was one of her original origins).

But Fury and Fury are both blonde, like Aresian.

stwasm

04-09-2002, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by DerekPowers
this was an excellent episode, wow, its hard to believe at this point that JL kind of sucked at one point, or atleast dissapointed many of us.

So heres some questions:

1. does WW in JL not have her alter ego diana prince? cause, if she did, wouldnt she go shopping in the beginning in her human disquise?

2. i never really understood the whole amazons hating man thing. my question is how are new amazons born w/ no men?? or better yet, how were the existing amazons born w/out men? any ideas?

3. whats the background on the ninja girl? was she in the comics?

It was also very nice to see all 7 members in this ep, and they all were used very well. I liked that the opening took place in gotham too, that was nice. and the story was good, really not much to complain about. Plus the animation looked very very nice, i really noticed an improvement in the way superman was drawn, he looks much better than he did in other eps. well thats my 2 cents, peace.

I can answer the first two questions. First, in this continuity, Wonder Woman just goes by Diana. She really doesn't have an alter ego like her predecessor Diana Prince. She came to Man's World to help and is just "Wonder Woman" full-time. Of course, you may recall that Batman called her "Wonder Woman," which is the first time, I believe, that anyone has referred to her as anything other than Diana.

Secondly, Diana was molded out of magic clay by Hippolyta. I can't remember the origins of the other Amazons. I think they're immortal.

stwasm

04-09-2002, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by bloodone

The first half, Batman taking out the Gang, I'd say Gotham (because why would Batman be patrolling Metropolis). Then, concurrently, Paradise Island and Metropolis. The big M on the police cars point out Metropoils.

Actually, the first half is in Gotham because I remember that the plant bore the name "Gotham" on it.

I agree, the amazons were used pretty well in this episode. I also liked the continuity woven in, where they drafted Hawkgirl to travel to Paradise Island because of Diana's exile. Good job there.

I thought the animation has been improving throughout the entire season. They're doing everything they can with their limited budget, and it's been looking good lately.

And my hero, Batman, takes out the entire squad of villains - I'm hesitant to say the Injustice Gang because they're missing Joker, Luthor, and Cheetah, at least - single-handedly. This episode proved once again why the animated Batman is my favorite version :)

Bud 'n Lou

04-09-2002, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Karkull

Watch it again: right before Aresia gassed the Injustice Gang Tsukuri (the ninja) stepped back, clueing us in that she is aware of her plan. Aresia only gassed Grundy, Shade, Copperhead, and Star Sapphire.

Well, Tsukuri seemed to be the most loyal member of the group. She seemed to have a great deal of respect for her employer. So when she backed away from the others, I took it as her way of separating herself (physically and symbolically) from the gang and their actions when the stepped forward to confront Aresia.

Frank White

04-09-2002, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by SimonMoon5

Hold onto your hats, this is another continuity nightmare.

First, back in the day, there were two (actually more, but I'm trying to keep it simple) Earths. One Earth (Earth-2) was where the heroes of the Golden Age comics lived, while the other Earth (Earth-1) was where the modern-day heroes (of the 1960s-1980s) lived. On Earth-2, Wonder Woman married Steve Trevor and had a daughter (Lyta Trevor, named after Wonder Woman's mother Hippolyta). Lyta Trevor grew up to have powers like those of her mother. She ended up joining up with other children (and etc) of other Golden Age Heroes who first tried to join the Justice Society, but then had to settle for their own group, called Infinity Inc.

Then, Crisis happened. There were not two (or more) earths anymore. There was only one Earth with a consistent (ha!) past. There was only one Wonder Woman, and it wasn't the Golden Age version. So who was Fury's mother?

Enter a group of characters called the Young All-Stars, consisting of "close enough" versions of characters eliminated by the Crisis (such as the Golden Age Wonder Woman). One such Young All Star was Fury... the "Golden Age Fury", that is.

The Golden Age Fury was Helena Kosmatos, a character who got her powers from one of the mythical Furies; she could only retain her powers as long as she retained her virginity, which became one of her subplots. At some unspecified point, she had a daughter (who became the Modern Age Fury, Helena Trevor), and then disappeared, presumably without powers.

Well, if the Golden Age Fury disappeared, who raised Lyta, the Modern Age Fury? Enter another character, DC's Miss America (actually a Quality character purchased by DC). Miss America lost her powers and married a man with the last name of Trevor and effectively adopted Lyta.

But the story doesn't end there. Without a Wonder Woman in World War II, there were still a number of holes to fill. Who could take Wonder Woman's place? Well, the Golden Age Fury partially did, and the rest of the slack was taken up by Miss America.

And everything finally made sense. Enter John Byrne.

John Byrne had taken over the writing and art of the Wonder Woman comic. He decided to deal with the holes left by the absence of a Golden Age Wonder Woman (even though those holes had already been plugged).

In the modern day, Wonder Woman was temporarily dead and a goddess, so her mother, Hippolyta, took her place, and was being called Wonder Woman. Well, eventually, she ended up in a time travel story, taking her back to World War II. After making sure not to kill Hitler too early, since that would change history, she decided to spend some time with the Justice Society back in the 1940's, so that she could change history.

So, now there was a Wonder Woman in the Justice Society again, despite the fact that Wonder Woman (Princess Diana) had been something completely new when she first arrived in Man's World in the modern day, so much so that her publicist came up with the name "Wonder Woman" for her; it was not meant as a legacy-name, and wouldn't have worked as a legacy.

So, then what happened to Fury and Fury?

Well, the Modern Age Fury became pregnant by the Silver Scarab (Hawkman and Hawkgirl's son) who died and became a version of the red-and-yellow Kirby Sandman. She went with him to the realm of dreams, where Morpheus (starring in "Sandman") stated that it was not proper for the dead to walk the Earth and caused the Silver Scarab/Sandman to die again (though he later came back as another Doctor Fate). This ticked off Fury who was used by the Furies to kill Morpheus, and her son (Daniel) took over Morpheus' role. Fury is currently in a coma, which Dr. Fate (Silver Scarab and Sandman) is trying to cure.

The Golden Age Fury was seen alone and powerless in an issue of Sandman, as some crazy old woman. However, we later learned that in the Golden Age, she had somehow obsessed with Hippolyta-as-Wonder-Woman, and thought of her as her mother. She then got her powers and youth back (and some new equipment) and attacked Wonder Woman (Princess Diana) for taking all of Hippolyta's attention. Things eventually worked out, and Fury went to live on the new version of Paradise Island, after the old one was destroyed during Our Worlds at War.

However, Aresia reminds me more of Donna Troy (Wonder Girl) as a human orphan girl who is given powers by the Amazons (well, that was one of her original origins).

But Fury and Fury are both blonde, like Aresian.

:o

Cere

04-09-2002, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by Livewire
The second part indeed looks very interesting . All the male JLers have the allergen, which means it's up to WW and Hawkgirl. I can't wait to see how they'll cope.
Actually, it looks like J'onn is unaffected by the plague, since it showed him in the commercial for part two. Might be that Martian physiology...although alien Superman wasn't immune...maybe the commercial shows J'onn five seconds before he conks out. :D

Anyway, the rest of the episode was awesome. I agree that I4A should have been shown first (I spent the first couple minutes wondering who exactly everybody was), but, well, there's nothing to be done about it now. Just pray that they show it at all. :mad: They'd better.

The fact that the whole JL appeared is not that big of a deal. GL and Flash had bit parts, only there to show they succombed to the plague. However, Batman, Hawkgirl, and even WW were used well.

Why was WW in a store? What was she doing there? Her reason for being there is never explained. It had no relation to the rest of the episode! (except for the references to men and women)

Also, big disappointment since the plague was revealed at the beginning of the commercial, even though we don't find out until the end of the show. The fact that the plague attacked only men (how will Batman stay immune?) could have been a revelation that would have shocked the audience before the "to be continued". However, it wasn't. Who makes the commercials anyway?

Well, that's all from someone who is curious to see how this all will turn out.

JLU Dude

04-13-2002, 01:12 PM

Just saw Part 1, it was actually quite good. Nice bit of continuity used. I sort of feel sorry for Aresia. Great to see some members of the Injustice Gang. Hope to see Injustice for All soon. It was also great to see all seven members in one Post Secret Origins episode.

Ed Liu

04-13-2002, 03:25 PM

Howdy all,

I really liked "Fury" Pt.1, and am greatly looking forward to Pt. 2 tomorrow night. The only thing that really bugged me was the wussing of Superman, and the fact that the allergen affects Superman but doesn't seem to do anything to J'onn (and, based on the preview for next week, doesn't look like it will). I think I'm also going to stop reading the previews posted here and elsewhere.

For those asking why Bats could take on the IJ himself: if this takes place after "Injustice for All" and Bats is in that episode, he's seen and observed all of the IJ members in combat before, and would probably know how to take them all out. There is a good bit of the "Batman Omnipotence Syndrome" in this, but Mark Waid seemed to make that pretty believable in "Tower of Babel."

-- Ed/Ace

Livewire

04-13-2002, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by Cere

Actually, it looks like J'onn is unaffected by the plague, since it showed him in the commercial for part two. Might be that Martian physiology...although alien Superman wasn't immune...maybe the commercial shows J'onn five seconds before he conks out. :D

Oops!! :o I didn't mean for it to appear that I meant J'onn had the plague as well. Your absolutely correct- he does look as if he is immune to it- although I find that odd considering it affected Superman so quickly and he's alien, too. But I guess we'll have to wait for pt. 2 to see what happens to J'onn. :)

Manhunter

04-13-2002, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Cere

Anyway, the rest of the episode was awesome. I agree that I4A should have been shown first (I spent the first couple minutes wondering who exactly everybody was), but, well, there's nothing to be done about it now. Just pray that they show it at all. :mad: They'd better.

I think it got sort of messed up when
Shade said that Aresia was an improvement over Luthor.

Green Lantern

04-14-2002, 01:24 PM

Wow. Wow. Wow.

I think I said it when BRAVE & THE BOLD aired, but I think this episode warrants saying it again: THIS is Justice League. Dear lord, this episode had it all.

Diana finally seemed to earn her place in the League. She wasn't the sniveling little Amazonian tourist who wants to be a big girl by playing with the big boys. She was strong and decisive, but still had the air of ignorance of Man's World, which is an important aspect of her character on JL. And Hippolyta is ALWAYS a treat to see. Another perfect voice casting.

Star Sapphire, as voiced by Olivia D'Abo, is the most interesting villain to appear on JL thus far. Even though the comics version of Star Sapphire (Carol Ferris) isn't British, (although perhaps on second though, the Sapphire personality has a distinctly different voice from Carol,) after hearing this voice, I would never want another actress portraying this character. She was excellent. A friend of mine pointed out, (and I totally agree) that after 5 minutes showing Sapphire use the gem, she was cooler than John Stewart ever was with the ring. Tsukuri was another token character. I didn't care for her at all. There are characters out there that they could have used in her place; there was no reason to create one like that.

Hawkgirl was great too. She's Diana's perfect foil. She made some great biting remarks about Amazonian ways and Diana's prejudice towards men.

We need more episodes as good as this. And I'll bet LEGENDS will be that episode. :)

James Harvey

04-14-2002, 01:46 PM

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jl/episodes/fury/p2/05.jpg

Episode #17 - Fury Part 2
Original Airdate - April 14th, 2002

With the man's population quickly dropping, Hawkgirl and Wonder Woman rush to stop Areshia from unleashing her plague upon the world.

Comments?

Joker85

04-14-2002, 07:26 PM

This episode was every bit as good as part 1!! Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl work well together, but they do have very different personalities. Once again, it was nice to see all the members in one episode, although two didn't have speaking parts. So, is Aresia really dead, or will she be back? Well, either way it was a great episode! Next weeks looks funny!! :)

Frank White

04-14-2002, 07:28 PM

How many sexual induendo's can you fit in one episode!?!?

JusticeLeagueLegion

04-14-2002, 07:31 PM

This episode was ausome!! It was wonderful to see the females in action for a change!! The fight scenes were ausome...especially the last one on the Jet! It was so ausome!! I couldn't beleive it! Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl really kicked some butt! And I loved that line Tsukaru said to Aresia: "I like you, but not that much!" It was an ausome episode...well animated, well written, better than part one...it was outstanding! Absolutly breathtaking! Can't wait for "Legends!"

mistah_j

04-14-2002, 07:32 PM

Just one question - did someone forget to mention to them that if there were no men in the world, the human race would die out? All the non-superheros are mortal. So bascially, they would be condemming the human race to extinction.

warmachine04

04-14-2002, 07:32 PM

"Fury" PT 2 is as good or even better than part 1. The story holds up pretty well and the dialogue was great. The teamwork between WonderWoman and Hawkgirl was excellent. I enjoyed it from start to finish. "Fury" ranks as one of the best episodes of the season. :) :) :) :) 1/2 / 5 :)

JLU Dude

04-14-2002, 07:35 PM

Part 2 was as good as Part 1. I lost any sympathy for Aresia. Glad to see all the members again. A Good amount of drama was in it.

JohnStewart-GL

04-14-2002, 07:35 PM

That was a greatepisode. Oliva is definately a great sapphire. i gave it 4 stars. no complaints. When hawkgirl was defending men was really cool.
and we got to see tsukuri fight hawkgirl! :D

Chibi Kageboshi

04-14-2002, 07:35 PM

"Don't Knock It Till You try It!" :D

JohnStewart-GL

04-14-2002, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Frank White
How many sexual induendo's can you fit in one episode!?!?
those were funny

Frank White

04-14-2002, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by JohnStewart-GL

those were funny

.......yeah

Anyway, I was wondering, how come Hypolyta could break out of chains but not rope. I know they had her captive but I'm assuming Wonder Woman and Hypolyta are in the same strength class so she could probably break out the ropes before Tsukuri could react.

Oh one more thing, how did Hypolyta get to Gotham City?

warmachine04

04-14-2002, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Chibi Kageboshi
"Don't Knock It Till You try It!" :D

The most memmorable quote of the whole episode. :D

Bird Boy

04-14-2002, 07:40 PM

Holy moley! What a great episode. Every minute of it was great and action packed.

The last part of it, where Wonder Woman and Aresia fought, was amazing. I'm not used to seeing so many punches thrown in one episode. Very very nice animation as well.

-BB

JohnStewart-GL

04-14-2002, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Bird Boy
Holy moley! What a great episode. Every minute of it was great and action packed.

The last part of it, where Wonder Woman and Aresia fought, was amazing. I'm not used to seeing so many punches thrown in one episode. Very very nice animation as well.

-BB
i think the way JL is progressing it is definately gonna be better than BTAS and STAS before it ends.

The Flash

04-14-2002, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by JohnStewart-GL

i think the way JL is progressing it is definately gonna be better than BTAS and STAS before it ends.

Let's not even go there. :) In my opinion, you can't compair JL to BTAS; at all! I just can't see anything, ANYTHING, being better then BTAS. If there is a BTAS2 (that'll be the day!), it still won't be the same BTAS.

Now, about the episode. I thought it was very well done. Not as many animation mistakes as the first part. ....Hrmm, the NHRA race is getting ready to start so I shall cut my thoughts off there. :D

Dark Knight

04-14-2002, 07:51 PM

I thought this was a pretty cool episode. Maybe I expected more after part one, but certainly the series is improving with each episode (as I predicted ;) ) and this is no exception. I think it was cool to see more of the ladies as well, and especially to see the whole Amazonian Logic system cracked open for how nuts it really is. The music was really cool, and there were plenty of interesting twists (Star Sapphire's double double cross, Aresia's accurate origin.)

My big complaint I guess is the convenient off camera recovery of all the males. I think some of the filler material of Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl trying help out the female volunteer workers but being told everything was taken care of could have been cut in order to be more in depth about the recovery process.

What did I really walk away from this with??? I love Star Sapphire!!! She was absolutely awesome!!! And I really want to see "Injustice For All" now even more than before.

I give part two 4 stars, but the two parts combined get 4.5.

The Guitar Slayer

04-14-2002, 07:58 PM

Great episode. I gave it 4.5 *'s, only because I though J'onn should've been a little more cautious with possibly contaminated costumes. Other than that, I liked a lot. I was thinking "Uh....Y7...!" when Hippolyta said "You are here because of a man." And I do agree with some of you that the best line was "Don't knock it until you try it, Princess!" And the look on WW's face...almost a contemplating look... These two eps are possibly the best in the series so far, with the exception of the Aquaman ep.

Chibi Kageboshi

04-14-2002, 07:59 PM

My big complaint I guess is the convenient off camera recovery of all the males. I think some of the filler material of Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl trying help out the female volunteer workers but being told everything was taken care of could have been cut in order to be more in depth about the recovery process.

I disagree... it was showing how well woman can handle things without men and how they really are equal.

Dark Knight

04-14-2002, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Chibi Kageboshi

I disagree... it was showing how well woman can handle things without men and how they really are equal.

I know but I think we got the point without WW and HG constantly getting there a second too late as if there werent more important things for them to do. Although it wouldnt be that big of a deal if they didnt sacrifice a better transition into the end in order to show it.

Failure

04-14-2002, 08:06 PM

Good points:

It wasn't a let down, which is saying a lot, because I thought part 1 was great. I was wondering if they'd be able to keep it going strong through the full 2nd ep and I think they did a great job with it.

Pretty good chemistry between WW and Hawkgirl, you gotta love Hawkgirl's "don't knock it til you tried it" line.

I thought the flashback scene with the sailer who saved Aresia's life was really poignant. Very well done scene there.

The pacing was solid. Action-packed without much letup most of the way.

Is Star Sapphire's voice unbearably cool or what?

Bad points:

Don't have much to complain about. Worst I could say is that even though it wasn't a let down, I didn't think it was quite up to the 1st ep's level. But that's getting really nitpicky.

4 stars.

EDIT: Just wondering, but does WW's mom (sorry I forget her name) not have the same powers all her daughters seem to have? That doesn't seem fair.

JusticeLeagueLegion

04-14-2002, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Chibi Kageboshi
"Don't Knock It Till You try It!" :D

That was pretty funny! I betcha KidsWB! or Fox Kids would have never let them say something like that.

Frank White

04-14-2002, 08:12 PM

"I could show her a thing or two about men."

JohnStewart-GL

04-14-2002, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by JusticeLeagueLegion

That was pretty funny! I betcha KidsWB! or Fox Kids would have never let them say something like that.
Gotta luv CN for not cutting that.
JL definately is for mature cartoon fans.

FLIPMODE

04-14-2002, 08:16 PM

Good Ep. 4 stars.

All I have to say is that: Aresia Vs WW, was Better then Supes Vs, Draaga.

If they could have Made Supe's battle even Close to WW's battle, it would have done "WonderS" for that ep.

Im sorry I just can't get over how incredibly lame Supes episode was.

Useless Plot Gas-There was no reason For MM to get infected, but oh well.

P.S. Batman and WW's in Arms.

Memphis Bleek

04-14-2002, 08:19 PM

Another excellent show. I like the part where Hawkgirl is taking Wonderwoman to task about the Amazonian beliefs. HG's don't knock till you try line was the best one liner of the season. The fighting scences were intense and well animated. WW and HG seems to work together well. Flash dialogue at the end was hilarious and showed that he is comic relief on the show.

The New Batman

04-14-2002, 08:19 PM

This was an excellent episode. I know I've been hard on this show in the past, but I must admit, this episode was great. This ties with the first episode as the best so far. Brave and the Bold is a distant second on my list and War World is at the bottom.

Samhaine

04-14-2002, 08:23 PM

Ok, I'm almost convinced that sometime by the end of the season Batman and Wonder Woman will have hooked up. (Hey, it's a good way to destroy and Supes/Wonder Woman talk concerning JL)

And I almost thought that Hipolyta was going to lift Diana's banishment. It certainly seemed like it.

Liked the ep, but judging by the preview, I think I'll like "Legends" even more.

stwasm

04-14-2002, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by Green Lantern
Wow. Wow. Wow.

I think I said it when BRAVE & THE BOLD aired, but I think this episode warrants saying it again: THIS is Justice League. Dear lord, this episode had it all.

Diana finally seemed to earn her place in the League. She wasn't the sniveling little Amazonian tourist who wants to be a big girl by playing with the big boys. She was strong and decisive, but still had the air of ignorance of Man's World, which is an important aspect of her character on JL. And Hippolyta is ALWAYS a treat to see. Another perfect voice casting.

Star Sapphire, as voiced by Olivia D'Abo, is the most interesting villain to appear on JL thus far. Even though the comics version of Star Sapphire (Carol Ferris) isn't British, (although perhaps on second though, the Sapphire personality has a distinctly different voice from Carol,) after hearing this voice, I would never want another actress portraying this character. She was excellent. A friend of mine pointed out, (and I totally agree) that after 5 minutes showing Sapphire use the gem, she was cooler than John Stewart ever was with the ring. Tsukuri was another token character. I didn't care for her at all. There are characters out there that they could have used in her place; there was no reason to create one like that.

Hawkgirl was great too. She's Diana's perfect foil. She made some great biting remarks about Amazonian ways and Diana's prejudice towards men.

We need more episodes as good as this. And I'll bet LEGENDS will be that episode. :) [/B]

It was an excellent episode, but don't even start that stuff about how John uses his ring. He uses it as needed. He's not the artsy-fartsy type that Kyle Rainer is. He's a no-nonsense, meat-and-potatoes type of hero. The way he uses it is fine. And, if you'd been paying attention, you see he's using it more creatively.

The Green Hornet

04-14-2002, 08:30 PM

John Stewart is gonna be SCHOOLED in Legends by a REAL ring-bearer!!!!!!!!!

JohnStewart-GL

04-14-2002, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by The Green Hornet
John Stewart is gonna be SCHOOLED in Legends by a REAL ring-bearer!!!!!!!!!
:cool: id like to see that. (as if that could ever happen ;) )

Green Lantern

04-14-2002, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by stwasm
It was an excellent episode, but don't even start that stuff about how John uses his ring. He uses it as needed. He's not the artsy-fartsy type that Kyle Rainer is. He's a no-nonsense, meat-and-potatoes type of hero. The way he uses it is fine. And, if you'd been paying attention, you see he's using it more creatively. One note of clarification:

His name is Kyle RAYNER.

This is the most often repeating mistake in all of comic fandom, and it's nerve grating to me. If you're going to try to tell me that John Stewart's better than Kyle or defend his total lack of utilization of the ring, at least have the good sense to spell Kyle's name correctly.

Because I guarantee you all that if I went around saying "Jon Stuart" you'd all be agitated.

The Green Hornet

04-14-2002, 08:37 PM

John:

did you see GG's MULTIPLE constructions with his ring

i hope john learns a thing or two :D

Frank White

04-14-2002, 08:38 PM

More Observations

Anybody notice how Hawkgirl was fiercely defending men?

Star Sapphire looked so dissapointed at the prospect of no men?

J'ohnn got the virus so Hawkgirl would have a reason to go help Diana, and to keep it an all females ep. But my question it how could J'ohnn get it from touching Supes costume but not from touching Supes himself?

Wondy asked Bats how he was doing first?

Wondy and Bats seem to have the most dialouge between two members every ep.

Bats hasn't interacted with Superman since Secret Origins(I mean seriously, not small talk like Enemy Below)

A good explanation why Supes and MM got the disease(Alergin, not virus, so Supes is still invunerable to Earth diseases)

Bats got busy in this eps. :D

Go Bats!( I'll admit, I'm biased)

JohnStewart-GL

04-14-2002, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by The Green Hornet
John:

did you see GG's MULTIPLE constructions with his ring

i hope john learns a thing or two :D
yea! the reminded me of kyles in in brughtest day. though i like Johns constructs. they suit his style.

Golden Age Flash

04-14-2002, 08:41 PM

Fantastic episode. The voice acting is getting better. I think I finally liked a performance with Wonder Woman because she stopped saying the old 'hera help me' line. The series is progressing nicely, can't wait for the Legends arc!

Green Lantern

04-14-2002, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by Frank White
More Observations

Wondy asked Bats how he was doing first?

Wondy and Bats seem to have the most dialouge between two members every ep.I don't see it this way at all. I see GL and Flash talking to each other much more. But if that's how you want to perceive things, go to town with it.

The Green Hornet

04-14-2002, 08:43 PM

the voice acting is getting a LOT LOT LOT better

Ed Liu

04-14-2002, 08:54 PM

Howdy all,

I thought "Fury" Pt 2 was a fitting closing to this two-parter, providing a king-sized dollop of superheroic fun with just the tiniest hints at the ambiguities involved in the Evils That Men Do. All in all, a very satisfying episode, and another one in the "win" column for Stan Berkowitz and Dwayne McDuffie.

THE GOOD:
- The voice acting. Susan Eisenberg has finally turned in a performance as Wonder Woman that I really enjoyed. Maria Canals was terrific as Hawkgirl, as usual. Julie Bowen of Ed as Aresia was excellent as well; I didn't realize it was her until her name flashed in the credits of Pt. 1. Great work all around.

- The plot twist of Star Sapphire pulling a double-cross. I saw the single-cross coming, but the double-cross legitimately caught me off-guard

- The scale of the threat involved finally seemed to warrant a full response from the Justice League, and they kept the property damage down to acceptable and non-gratuituous levels.

- The Flash's closing line. Was good for a snicker, at least.

THE BAD:
These are my usual collection of nitpicks. They didn't ruin the episode for me (I rated this one 3.5 stars), but they bug me. You've been warned.

- Batman knocks Wonder Woman out of the path of the runaway bus, when WW should have just stopped it right then and there. Batman then catches up to the bus by RUNNING AFTER IT, while succumbing to the allergen. Arg.

- Hawkgirl jumps out of the Jav-7 without her mace, and then pulls it out of nowhere when she needs it. Arg again. The ones who remember my gripes about "Paradise Lost" know stuff like this aggravates me to no end. This is just sloppy animation. My wife suggests that she might have had antimatter pockets or something.

- Where were Supergirl, Batgirl, and Zatanna?

- I know that Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl had to be in the Watchtower for the closing scene, but the image of Superman and Green Lantern flying around to save the day kind of felt a bit counter to the theme of the episode, which was to let the women have their day in the sun.

To the folks who wonder where babies would come from if Aresia had succeeded, I can only suggest three ideas. One is that she really wasn't thinking that far ahead; blind, unreasoning, obsessive hatred can do that to you (pick your favorite current event for proof). The second is some magic-based artificial insemination/cloning thing. The third is that she planned on using Amazon magic to make all the women on Earth into Amazons, making the whole baby thing unnecessary.

Greatly looking forward to "Legends."

-- Ed/Ace

William C. Maune

04-14-2002, 09:03 PM

[indent]Great episode! This series keeps improving and I think the animation is getting better as well.

Maxie Zeus

04-14-2002, 09:05 PM

I guess I'll be the turd in the punchbowl. I thought it was pretty boring.

Okay, yes, the fights at the climax were terrific. That was the kind of well-choreographed confrontation that "War World" should have had (and should have had lots of). No problems with the ol' rough and tumble.

Simon Moon said it for me (back in the part 1 talkback) when complaining about how part 1 felt like it took forever to get started. The basic plot is pretty simple, and not the sort of thing that feels like it needs two parts to convey: Aresia makes up and tries to distribute a compound that will kill off all the men. And the JL have to stop her. Good enough for a solidly packed, taut 20-minute ep. And that's pretty much what we got in part 2. So what was all the stuff in part 1? Mostly filler.

Even part 2 felt like there was bit of sawdust mixed into the sirloin. The fights were brilliant, but they went on for an awful long time. And a lot of the suspense (like with Hippolyta's being taken hostage) were merely manipulative. I also think it was a major mistake to interrupt that very kinetic climax with a second flashback. The plane is crashing, the instrument panel is exploding, the cruise missles are about to go off and Hippolyta basically says "Pull up a chair, there's something I've been meaning to get off my chest." Anyway, was it likely that it was going to change Aresia's mind? Take her down, and after she's in custody you explain the irony of the situation.

The whole "let's wipe out the men" plan also has that . . . biological complication. It never crossed Aresia's mind (never mind that of her cohorts) that wiping out the men would in very short order wipe out humanity? (Maybe the entire planet. If the allergen affects aliens like Superman and J'onn, what about terrestrial but non-human males?) It might have been amusing if Aresia (being a child when she washed ashore on non-sexual Themyscira) didn't know about the birds and the bees, especially if Star Sapphire had to explain it to her.

Aresia: With my gas, we'll destroy all the men on the planet!

Star Sapphire: Well, that's all very well for you and Tsukuri. And I don't care if I never see another man again. But where will the babies come from?

Aresia: What do men have to do with babies?

Star Sapphire: Well, you know. . . (whisper whisper whisper)

Aresia: You've got to be kidding!

Alternately, it might have made for a further twist if Aresia knew exactly what she was doing, and had an offer on tap for Hippolyta. That is, after she betrays Copperhead, Grundy and Shade, she turns on Tsukuri and Sapphire. Her plan is to kill off all the men, after which humankind itself will quickly perish. The planet will then belong to the Amazons. And that's the offer she makes when Hippolyta shows up, and the plan she reveals. "Today, my lady, you have only an island. When I am through, you will be queen of the world." What does Hippolyta (or Diana) do then?

That, actually, is what is missing from "Fury" and from many of the JL eps we've seen so far. There's not much drama because no one really has to make a choice. The bad guy has a plan and the good guys must stop them. But when do we get the sense that someone has to choose good over evil (or vice versa), or to decide what kind of person they are going to be? It's all very well for Hawkgirl to hector Diana about how "cracked" Themyscira is, but that all it is, a lot of speechifying.

Anyway, there is one very big difference between Hippolyta and Aresia. Yes, they both want to create a "woman's world." But Hippolyta chose to withdraw from the world and create an Amazonian community. Aresia wants to destroy the world and substitute Amazonia for it. You have the potential for a similar drama (though it's dropped with a rather lame double-cross) with Tsukuri and Sapphire: Tsukuri choosing to help Aresia destroy the world, and Sapphire choosing to help Hippolyta beat back the Amazonian nightmare.

Some fun stuff, but a lot of loose ends and slack parts.

Frank White

04-14-2002, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by Ace the Bathound

- Where were Supergirl, Batgirl, and Zatanna?

-- Ed/Ace

Well in this continuity Zatanna has no powers, ala "Zatanna"

I assume Supergirl was helping out in Metropolis

Batgirl should have been helping out since most of the episode was in Gotham.

scarface_74

04-14-2002, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by JusticeLeagueLegion

That was pretty funny! I betcha KidsWB! or Fox Kids would have never let them say something like that.

Back when KidsWB was cool, they allowed that kind of stuff all of the time -- Harley in Mad Love, Roxy's famous "orgasm" in Batman's "Ultimate Thrill". Lois's "Nice S" when she first met Superman, Catwoman in the "Cult of the Cat".

Dark Knight

04-14-2002, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus
The plane is crashing, the instrument panel is exploding, the cruise missles are about to go off and Hippolyta basically says "Pull up a chair, there's something I've been meaning to get off my chest."

Aresia: With my gas, we'll destroy all the men on the planet!

Star Sapphire: Well, that's all very well for you and Tsukuri. And I don't care if I never see another man again. But where will the babies come from?

Aresia: What do men have to do with babies?

Star Sapphire: Well, you know. . . (whisper whisper whisper)

Aresia: You've got to be kidding!

LOL!

JTurner954

04-14-2002, 09:18 PM

This episode was good. I gave it a 3 1/2 instead of 4 because I have a BAD feeling that there's going to be a Wonder Woman-Batman love story (especially after that don't knock it until you try it line) soon.

One last thing: Next week's episode is looking good. Can't wait.

The Guard

04-14-2002, 09:22 PM

I must be the only person who didn't think this episode was wonderful.

It seems to me that a Bruce Timm-ish Circe would have worked better than Aresia. The magic allergen would have made more sense. Which brings up another point. Why was there an allergen sitting under a beam of light in PART 1?

How did Batman FALL OVER, and THEN catch up to a bus moving rather fast. Don't tell me it was only going 20 or so, because it moved past landmarks pretty fast. And it bothered me that Batman didn't think to wear a rebreather or something, after he knew about the...plague.

The firewomen and paramedics made remarks about "Sending the last one to Gotham General." Are we to believe that there were enough women firefighters and paramedics in Gotham to take care of ALL the men afflicted?

When the Medivac-9 chopper exploded, was there a patient inside? Why else would the chopper need clearance?

I think it would have worked much better if Star Sapphire had actually decided to HELP the Justice League. In the comics, I recall she wasn't totally evil. Since she was part of Carol Ferris. Either way, she was flung out to sea, so I'm sure we'll see her again.

Why is Wonder Woman the only Amazon who can fly? Is it the costume? Or is she just special?

When the missles blew up, wasn't the allergen released into the atmosphere anyway? Or did the fire take it out?

Was there a camera following Superman and GL at the end? No one seems to consider where the cameras are when people are onscreen.

:)

But I'm just being anal-retentive. It was a good ep. Not my favorite, but a good ep. Can't wait for next week.

Spyact3

04-14-2002, 09:29 PM

Did anyone else notice how fluid Batman moves? He just seems to glide...its amazing to watch. Even without superpowers, Batman just rocks (yeah you can tell I like Batman the best, but I don't care). The innuendo with this was great, and i think that there might be a relationship between wonderwoman with either superman or bats later in the series.

BeastBoyWonder

04-14-2002, 09:45 PM

Overall, I liked this episode. Unlike BTAS, which leaned more towards character development and personal conflicts, this episode was chock full of action and adventure, with a little suspense-building. There may have been minor plot errors, but the beautifully choreographed action scenes made up for it. However, this episode was not totally void of charactarization, which made it somewhat interesting. There was the major development, that of giving Aresia a "motive" to wipe out "Man's world", and there were also the little things, Hawkgirl chastizing the Amazonian way of life, Hawkgirl referring to what brutally becoming an orphan at an early age can do to a child in front of Batman, Hippolyta rearing Aresia and training her, but often wondering if she had made the right decision, etc. From Batman fighting the IG and sneakily (but in character) removing the necklace of Aresia to the final fight scene, there were some awesome, action-packed fight scenes spruced with plot and character development, bringing this episode of JL in league with some of the best of BTAS, STAS, and BB, a definate improvement over the early episodes of this season.

But I still liked "Beware the Grey Ghost" better. It was cute.

EDIT: The dialogue was MUCH less cheasier than usual...I liked it, unlike what we were fed before.

William C. Maune

04-14-2002, 09:45 PM

"The firewomen and paramedics made remarks about "Sending the last one to Gotham General." Are we to believe that there were enough women firefighters and paramedics in Gotham to take care of ALL the men afflicted?"

- I think they were just refering to the area they were in.

"When the Medivac-9 chopper exploded, was there a patient inside? Why else would the chopper need clearance?"

- Even if they didn't have a patient they would probably still need clearance to get themselves back.

"When the missles blew up, wasn't the allergen released into the atmosphere anyway? Or did the fire take it out?"

- I would guess the fire took out a large part of it since it wasn't intended to be released the way it was. Plus, while it was released in the atmosphere the plan was to release it high where the air currents could carry it and it ended up being released at sea level. If some of it did get out at least now it is isolated and they have a cure.

"Was there a camera following Superman and GL at the end? No one seems to consider where the cameras are when people are onscreen."

- It could have been a television station's NewsChopper.

SirLemming

04-14-2002, 10:40 PM

This is the first time that a Justice League episode truly did something out of the ordinary that surprised me. Hawkgirl had some good scriptwriting (although I still think her voice is weird), most notably when she pointed out that Aresia is just carrying the Amazonian belief to its logical extent. All modern relevancy aside, I just thought that was very "smart." It was also "smart" how Aresia didn't instantly become good once the poignant story was told to her -- she still refused to compromise. I thought that was going to be the "everybody's happy" ending to the conflict, but that didn't happen.

So I guess this was the "smartest" episode to date. I can only see it getting better from here!

GL2k2

04-14-2002, 10:51 PM

Well, this episode was a well deserved breath of oxygen, it was much better than its TNBSA counterpart "Girl's Night Out". In succeeded in filling the void of action that was left in part one. Plenty of fists fights in this one and one of the most important lines in the show is what Hawkgirl said in the beginning. It pretty much sums up ignorance and bigotry to all who serve it.

William C. Maune

04-14-2002, 10:53 PM

[indent]I would have to agree about the episode being smart. While action is nice, to me plot, character development and writing make an episode great. I really like the commentary on the Amazons world, especially how Hawkgirl made Wonder Woman and her mother (I'll just say that rather than butcher the spelling of her name) about their beliefs. Plus, it showed us that the writers don't need to have The Flash in the episode a lot to have some great one liners.

Frank White

04-14-2002, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by scarface_74

Back when KidsWB was cool, they allowed that kind of stuff all of the time -- Harley in Mad Love, Roxy's famous "orgasm" in Batman's "Ultimate Thrill". Lois's "Nice S" when she first met Superman, Catwoman in the "Cult of the Cat".

"Wanna Rev up your Harley?"

"Where's Joker?"
"Probably making Ha-Ha somewhere with Harley Quinn"

Barb Gordon

04-14-2002, 11:57 PM

This is an episode that stands out from others in so many ways. First, the obvious, which was the fact that it was basically an all women's ep in its entirety. How awesome is that? It was wonderful to see women doing just fine taking care of everything during a crisis, and to also see the different views certain women had about men in general. Hipolyta had to admit that men aren't all that bad, Hawkgirl was a pretty good supporter of them all the way, and even helped Wonder Woman think about her own views about men. I think by the end of the ep, Wonder Woman had pretty much the same view as Hawkgirl, and Aresia was the only one who really suffered because of misconceptions, and she wasn't even all that bad. I loved the end, with Flash talking with his mouth full and burping when talking about how he would have shown Aresia a thing or two about men. Wonder Woman's look and response were priceless. Now why, when the superhero guys fell ill did they have their masks still on? Don't they all know who they are, and if so, is there really a need to keep the masks on during something like that? I mean, the guys were sick, you'd think they would remove Flash's and Batman's masks while monitoring them. Eh, then again, it is a cartoon. And yes, I do find that the voice acting is coming together a lot better, not to mention the character's development.

Barb^-^

Spider

04-14-2002, 11:58 PM

Well, I thought it was really well done. I found it interesting when Wonder Woman was fighting Aresia near the end of the epidose (on the aircraft), and she (Wonder Woman) stopped and had to take a breather. She really looked tired at that point.

Hawkgirl and the Princess were both 'sucker punched' earlier in the episode. I wanted retribution for that, but I never got it. And at one point (I think it was when Hawkgirl was floored from behind), I was starting to yell at the television set: "Hey, you can't do that to my girl!" ;) I'm in complete agreement with whomever said that Star Sapphire is the best villain in "Fury"--loved the voice and the spunk.

Questions--

Is Aresia really dead? And did Tsakuri and Star Sapphire survive as well? I'm uncertain who is left. I can speculate, but does anyone know for certain? Who was it that went down into the water after Hawkgirl threw that very heavy object at her? This is the villain I'm unsure about with regard to survival....

Heero Yuy

04-15-2002, 12:05 AM

I'd say I've seen this one, but honestly. My work schedule doesn't allow for me to watch JL. (I work both Saturday and Sundays), but from what I did hear it was very well done. (Kevin Conroy is one of my favorite VA's ;-) )

Karkull

04-15-2002, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus
Alternately, it might have made for a further twist if Aresia knew exactly what she was doing, and had an offer on tap for Hippolyta. That is, after she betrays Copperhead, Grundy and Shade, she turns on Tsukuri and Sapphire. Her plan is to kill off all the men, after which humankind itself will quickly perish. The planet will then belong to the Amazons. And that's the offer she makes when Hippolyta shows up, and the plan she reveals. "Today, my lady, you have only an island. When I am through, you will be queen of the world." What does Hippolyta (or Diana) do then?

Damn it, Maxie, why do you always have some idea that would make a good episode better?

:p

This episode wasn't the best - and had its share of plot holes - but it had its moments. We got to see Hawkgirl versus Tsukuri and Wonder Woman versus Aresia, plus some pretty good jokes at the Amazon's expense.

The best part of the episode, however, was that we got some insight into Star Sapphire's character. Notice how she was originally uneasy about helping Aresia, but later in the episode she was suddenly all about helping her destroy all men. This probably has to do with her split personality: on one hand she's Carol Ferris, but on the other hand she's Star Sapphire - the queen of an alien race of female warriors (much like the Amazons). Of course she'd help out.

Another cool part was watching Star Sapphire fight Wonder Woman - not only were they a good match-up, but did anyone else notice that, save for the costumes, they look almost exactly alike (they have the same hair and everything!)? Very clever.

Anyway, I hope we see Tsukuri again, as well as Aresia (so, will she ever go by the Fury, or what?).

hawkfu

04-15-2002, 01:24 AM

I haven't missed an episode yet and I must say that Justice League is beautiful. The animation is amazing, but the stories continue to be plagued by holes. In just this past 2 parter, Fury, there are many questionable points that pop up. First, when Hawkgirl and the Amazon queen check up on Aresia who is supposed to be in isolation, they find a truck filled with books on, among other things, chemical warfare. So where is she supposed to have gathered these books from? How long was she in isolation that she had a trunck full of books (from Man's World) that no one knew about? Another point is Martian Manhunter who eventually succombs to the male specific virus that Aresia has effected the rest of the JL with. So why wasn't he affected earlier? It seemed to spread through contact and he was in contact with all of the fallen Leaguers. Also, why did it affect him at all? Why was a virus so specific to men able to also affect his alien physiology?Diana is fast enough to catch the stealth bomber Aresia has stolen but she still needs to clutch desperately to it while trying to climb across the moving ship? Why didn't she just fly and keep pace with it?

Don't get me wrong, I like the show. I just feel that the stories need to be tightened up some in order to make a good show in to an excellent one. My buddy and I have decided that there is one big flaw in every episode so far and that's too many. I am sure they will get stronger the longer the show's run, and I really hope it has a nice long run.

-Hawkfu

donxavier

04-15-2002, 01:55 AM

This has been my least favorite of all the story arcs. Aresia came across as the typical zealot. There was no depth to her character at all.

The "you were saved by a man" speech that Hippolyta gave seemed tacked on the end because it was. It was shoved in at the last five minutes of the episode.

Also, how many times this season is Hippolyta going to be captured and held prisoner???????

This story could have taken a much higher ground by tackling hard issues like the fact that in some ways women are STILL not treated as equals to men. Or, the deficit between men and women in the labor field as evidenced by doctors and firefighters.
Although there are more women working in these two fields than ten years ago these are still very male dominated careers. It would have been interesting to see fire houses unable to respond to all the fires because the lack of (forgive the term) manpower or hospitals unable to care for all the emergency patients because of the reduction in staff. This would not have taken that much time out of the episode at all.

Outside of that and my gripe about the invincible Batman, I love this show. Bring me more JL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Samhaine

04-15-2002, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by The Guard
Why is Wonder Woman the only Amazon who can fly? Is it the costume? Or is she just special?
I'm pretty sure either myself or TheHuntressDiana answered this in the talkback for Fury pt 1 (there were alot of questions about Diana and the amazons in general that were asked and fielded on the first two pages of that thread) but I'll answer here as well.

Diana was not created the same way the other amazons were. Well, not entirely. The amazons were created by the gods, this is true. Hypollita (I can never remember how this is spelled) longed for a daughter of her own, so she fashioned a baby out of the clay soil of Paradise Island and asked the gods to grant her life. They imbued powers upon her when they did this.

So, the short answer is, yes, she is just special, because the gods granted her gifts. Flight, she's stronger than the other amazons, I believe she's got some speed, as well.

Christo

04-15-2002, 03:18 AM

I was happily surprised that this episode was better than I expected after last week's set-up. Good girl power vibes, good action scenes and some good dialogue . . . but not enough. I yearned for a few more character moments.

Hawkgirl and Diana's argument ended a little too quickly. I wanted more. I wanted to see a scene between Diana and Hippolyta after all the chaos -- that uncomfortable goodbye as the Queen goes back to her realm without her daughter.

I was annoyed by SuperBats. Again.

Still, I was happy with it overall and am looking forward to "Legends."

Beyond Batman

04-15-2002, 05:06 AM

Great episode. Enjoyed the story, the action, and the nice character development between Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl. I was amazed at how they projected the women as such strong characters and I hope they continue to do so.

For some reason, when MM came on screen, I thought that he wouldn't be threatened by the virus. He's an alien... then, when he fainted having acquired symptoms from the virus, I soon realized... wait a second... Superman's not human, and he was the first one infected. :rolleyes:

I'm looking forward to "Legends!"

Squall

04-15-2002, 06:02 AM

Wow!

I loved "Fury" -- Parts I & II. I gave it 4 1/2 stars. But then again, I've loved every episode of Justice League so far. I haven't given any episode anything less than 4 stars.

And there are so many questions people are asking! Well, they all seem to have reasonable answers to me...

"So what was all the stuff in Part I? Mostly filler."

I thought that JL Part I's were the "set up" for the action to come in Part II's. If JL episodes were scaled down to single episodes, everyone would then complain that they were rushed and too short!

"How did Batman FALL OVER, and THEN catch up to a bus moving rather fast. Don't tell me it was only going 20 or so, because it moved past landmarks pretty fast. And it bothered me that Batman didn't think to wear a rebreather or something, after he knew about the...plague."

I think that, since the plague was magic in nature, wearing a rebreather wouldn't have done a bit of good. Batman knew he was going to succumb to the plague eventually... so he just tried to help out as much as he could until the moment of truth arrived and he was down for the count too.

As for the bus... it was a damaged bus (most likely popped a couple of tires slamming against that fencing), and it was in downtown Metropolis, where there's a road sign every five feet. :D And riding on the curb would quickly slow a damaged bus down. I'd say the bus was going about... let's say, 10 mph, when Batman caught up to it. (I'm sure it tired him out though.)

"The firewomen and paramedics made remarks about "Sending the last one to Gotham General." Are we to believe that there were enough women firefighters and paramedics in Gotham to take care of ALL the men afflicted?"

I agree with the statement already made that is was only in a local area (like, say, eight square city blocks, not counting the people from those eight square city blocks that had time to get on planes and infect the men on those planes too). The small outbreak of the plague that we did get to see was in part of downtown Gotham City; I don't think ALL of Gotham City, and certainly nowhere else on the planet, was infected. Isn't that what those missiles were for?

"When the Medivac-9 chopper exploded, was there a patient inside? Why else would the chopper need clearance?"

Probably. People die all the time on B:TAS, S:TAS, JL, and BB, but we never directly hear about it. (Just think B/S, "World's Finest", or BB, "Return of the Joker", for example. How man people did Joker kill going on those two rampages?)

"Now why, when the superhero guys fell ill did they have their masks still on?"

Batman and Superman knows who each other are (B/S, "World's Finest"), but I don't think anyone else knows who anyone else is. Of course, everyone does know who Diana and J'onn are (and Hawkgirl too, perhaps?) , since they don't even have secret identities. I'd think asking about your secret identity would be a taboo question to the seven JL members. In other words, I think they left the masks on out of respect.

"First, when Hawkgirl and the Amazon queen check up on Aresia who is supposed to be in isolation, they find a trunk filled with books on, among other things, chemical warfare. So where is she supposed to have gathered these books from? How long was she in isolation that she had a trunk full of books (from Man's World) that no one knew about? Another point is Martian Manhunter who eventually succombs to the male specific virus that Aresia has effected the rest of the JL with. So why wasn't he affected earlier? It seemed to spread through contact and he was in contact with all of the fallen Leaguers. Also, why did it affect him at all? Why was a virus so specific to men able to also affect his alien physiology?Diana is fast enough to catch the stealth bomber Aresia has stolen but she still needs to clutch desperately to it while trying to climb across the moving ship? Why didn't she just fly and keep pace with it?"

Yikes! A big one! :D

I think Aresia had slipped out of Themiscerya many times without the Queen's knowledge, to do some research. Then she'd slip back in when no one was looking around for her, and go about her business. (I'd also be willing to bet those isolation chambers are all over Themiscerya, and that Amazons meditate in isolation all the time. This was just supposed to be Aresia's first time to meditate the Amazon way.)

I don't think Martian Manhunter was affected earlier because, maybe the plague took longer to get to him, since he's so different than either Humans or Kryptonians. And I don't think he was afraid to touch anything because he had probably convinced himself that he was different enough NOT to get infected (which proved to be a bad thing for him to assume).

The plague seemed to effect males of any species, and the plague was magic-based. Magic seems to trump plain old science, so even with such a different physiology, Martian Manhunter was infected too.

Wonder Woman wanted to get INTO the aircraft, not just fly to keep up with it. And you have to remember, keeping up is one thing; tearing your way into it while keeping up is something else.

I love Justice League! This show just keeps getting better, better, better! :D I think that Justice League has yet to even hit its stride, and look at how good it already is!

Terminatah

04-15-2002, 09:43 AM

The revelation of every character's past is a major part of their development, so it bugs me that I don't know the origin of a majority of the characters on Justice League (including some of the leaguers). Whenever they do something, like Star Sapphire's double cross, I have no idea whether it's in character or not. Catering to the comic book fans is fine, but reading the comics shouldn't be a prerequisite for watching a TV show.

I think the worst kinda dialogues are the ones with clunky lines that are only there for the sake of the audience. I noticed this at the end when Batman says something like, "It's a good thing you found Aresia's notes in her secret lair." Really, Batman? Ya think so? What's what, Wonder Woman? Without the notes, you wouldn't have been able to fashion an antidote? It all finally comes together in my really small brain!

Good show overall, though.

-Terminatah

The Guard

04-15-2002, 10:15 AM

Is Aresia really dead?

Did we see a body? :)

As for the bus... it was a damaged bus (most likely popped a couple of tires slamming against that fencing), and it was in downtown Metropolis, where there's a road sign every five feet. And riding on the curb would quickly slow a damaged bus down. I'd say the bus was going about... let's say, 10 mph, when Batman caught up to it. (I'm sure it tired him out though.)

That was no 10 MPH. Driving through a parking lot is ten MPH. :)

RJLundeen

04-15-2002, 10:36 AM

This was the first truly lame episode, I felt. Yes, there was a moral to the story but I felt it was buried deep beneath the vast ineptitude of both Diana, Hawkgirl and Hippolyta. I'm sorry but is there some underlying disrespect for the gals here? They couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag, much less take down two villainous sidekicks Batman took down in 6 seconds. I think everyone's getting caught up in the "majesty" of the mood and moral here and they're missing the stupidity.
Hippolyta tells Aresia that a man saved her life. Why didn't she tell her? "It didn't seem important." How stupid IS this woman? While the first half of the story was great, I felt this half was a real slap in the face and a great showing of disrespect for the ladies. Especially Diana. Time for her character to come out of the walking coma and contribute. Same with Super-wuss. Okay, end of rant.-rick

SimonMoon5

04-15-2002, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Frank White

Oh one more thing, how did Hypolyta get to Gotham City?

That was the thing that really bugged me about this episode.
Hippolyta finds out that one of her amazons has gone off to this mysterious "Man's World" that she's heard about but hasn't seen in hundreds of years, since the Amazons first came to the island.

Then, without any help from the League, she travels across the ocean. Okay, maybe she has a magic boat hidden somewhere. Then, she decides to go to the United States? Why? Well, maybe Diana told her that's where the League is based. Then, she goes to Gotham City? Why does she know to go there? Then, after arriving in Gotham City, she finds Aresia and her cohorts... something that the Justice League hasn't been able to do yet? How? Why? How? Why? How? Why?

When I first saw Hippolyta arrive at the secret hideout, I thought, "Oh, that J'onn is really clever." You see, I assumed that he had taken on female form to avoid the plague and chose this particular form in an attempt to use psychological warfare on Aresia. Okay, it didn't work, but when the other Leaguers arrived, I kept thinking, "Okay, J'onn, you can change back now. You can change back now, J'onn." But he never did. I assumed it was J'onn, because it obviously couldn't've been Hippolyta since Amazons never leave the island.

Oh, and if the plague affects all species well enough to take out J'onn and Clark, wouldn't it affect animals? Are the amazons vegetarians?

I really felt the episode would've been stronger had Star Sapphire actually had some regrets about destroying all the men on the planet, as happened with some of Superia's underlings when she tried to kill all the men on the planet (in a Captain America storyline) by launching missiles full of a plague that would kill only men.

Samhaine

04-15-2002, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by SimonMoon5
Then, without any help from the League, she travels across the ocean. Okay, maybe she has a magic boat hidden somewhere. Then, she decides to go to the United States? Why? Well, maybe Diana told her that's where the League is based. Then, she goes to Gotham City? Why does she know to go there? Then, after arriving in Gotham City, she finds Aresia and her cohorts... something that the Justice League hasn't been able to do yet? How? Why? How? Why? How? Why?
While I don't have any of the books onhand, I'm pretty sure that in John Byrne's (yes, yes, I know, it's Byrne, but hey, this was some of his better, more recent work) run of Wonder Woman the narration would say that Paradise Island is outside of time (explaining why the amazons don't age and don't need to procreate) and space, meaning that it's not an island by conventional means. There is only one specific way to get to the island, and I'm assuming that the path is a magical one. Going by the theory that it is displaced, Hippolyta could exit the island pretty much wherever she wanted to on Earth, and that includes Gotham Harbor. I agree, I'm not really sure if she had a sound reason (except, maybe, that Gotham was where the plague/allergy was breaking out) but it's not totally unreasonable for her to get there easily.

And about the animals; well, you have to remember, Aresia wasn't thinking. She didn't really plan ahead past the "all men dying" phase of her plan. And, for some reason, neither was Star Sapphire. She, at least, would know that humans would become extinct if we were to lose all males (this is, of course, after all the....hmmm, I think I'm leaving PG here, so I'll just say that the race could be sustained for a time using artificial insemination). But those amazons, they so crazy :rolleyes:

Karkull

04-15-2002, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by hawkfu
First, when Hawkgirl and the Amazon queen check up on Aresia who is supposed to be in isolation, they find a truck filled with books on, among other things, chemical warfare. So where is she supposed to have gathered these books from? How long was she in isolation that she had a trunck full of books (from Man's World) that no one knew about?

She's in league with Ares. She has to be, :D.

Justice League 2000

04-15-2002, 12:54 PM

hello friends great episode wonder woman and hawkgirl team up was sweet with that ninja girl kick hawkgirl star sapphire set wonder woman up was sad I really enjoy that episode. :) that is one of my favorite episodes of all time. ;)

stwasm

04-15-2002, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Green Lantern
One note of clarification:

His name is Kyle RAYNER.

This is the most often repeating mistake in all of comic fandom, and it's nerve grating to me. If you're going to try to tell me that John Stewart's better than Kyle or defend his total lack of utilization of the ring, at least have the good sense to spell Kyle's name correctly.

Because I guarantee you all that if I went around saying "Jon Stuart" you'd all be agitated.

As much as you knock my man, John, you deserve that one. Plus, there's a town in my home state with that name, so it's easy for me to get the two mixed up! :p

Spider

04-15-2002, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by RJLundeen
They couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag, much less take down two villainous sidekicks Batman took down in 6 seconds.

RJLundeen,

I'm not in complete agreement with you, but I think you do have a point about the fighting and perhaps some of the remarks made. (For me, stupidity [snipped above] is too strong a word to use, but I certainly support your right to use it. :))

There was something amiss for me with regard to the Hawkgirl/Wonder Woman fighting abilities in "Fury." I can't quite place what it was, but either Aresia and Star Sapphire are two extraordinarily strong and powerful women, or the writing toned down the capabilities of both Hawkgirl and Wonder Woman for other reasons--reasons I can't decipher at present. And as much as I do like seeing Hyppolyta (sp.?), I didn't like her response to Aresia either. I'm also curious why Wonder Woman was shown quite fatigued at one point, and why Hawkgirl's mace didn't do more damage to the ship. I can't do much about the first part, but you can be DANG sure I'm going to talk to Hawkgirl soon about this. ;)

CadaverousEyes

04-15-2002, 01:52 PM

I have come into possession of a bit of dialogue that was cut out of this episode:

WW: Good thing we found Aresia's notes in her lair so we could find a cure!
Hawkgirl: Wait, how did we find her lair?
WW: Uh.. wasn't it that solitary tower?
Hawkgirl: No, no notes there. I checked. If that was the case, we wouldn't have even had to worry about stopping her.
WW: Um... what about that hangar?
Hawkgirl: If that was her base, why would she break into it?
WW: Well... hey look, Superman and Green Lantern are taking credit for everything!
Hawkgirl: What?!? We did all the work and they get all the glory?!
J'onn: Shut up and make me a sandwich.

The rest is far too violent to transcribe. No, I wasn't pleased with that ending. Maybe if they had added a "Star Sapphire was quick to tell us.." kind of line. Well, they wouldn't let her drown, would they?

The fights were also troubling. SS may have a neat gem that does stuff, and Tsukuri may have all those neat ninja skills, but they're still regular people. Batman was able to knock them out within seconds, but when Wonder Woman (who's on par with Superman) and Hawkgirl (whose mace knocked back a planet destroying laser) hit them, they just get back up like it was nothing! The first fight should have put them both out for days. Ah well. Everything else was fine.

Clayface

04-15-2002, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus
I guess I'll be the turd in the punchbowl. I thought it was pretty boring.

....

Some fun stuff, but a lot of loose ends and slack parts.

Yep, that about sums up my feelings on this episode as well. I love it when Maxie posts before me - all I gotta do is say "Yep" and my work is done - he's always saying what I'm thinking!

Spider

04-15-2002, 02:01 PM

Cadaverous Eyes,

Good one! I'm starting to believe that Hawkgirl and Wonder Woman may have been out painting the town just before Aresia arrived. Perhaps too many cookies slowed them both down a bit, too. Or (just maybe) that perfume that Wonder Woman had showered on her wasn't as innocent as it seemed.... ;)

JusticeLeagueLegion

04-15-2002, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by GL2k2
Well, this episode was a well deserved breath of oxygen, it was much better than its TNBSA counterpart "Girl's Night Out". In succeeded in filling the void of action that was left in part one. Plenty of fists fights in this one and one of the most important lines in the show is what Hawkgirl said in the beginning. It pretty much sums up ignorance and bigotry to all who serve it.

I didn't even consider "Girl's Night Out" being remotly similar to this episode...it was SOOO much better than Girls' Night Out.

DisneyBoy

04-15-2002, 03:02 PM

RJLundeen and Terminatah, your comments are both very hilarious! Too bad I can't add anything else to this discussion, but I haven't seen this arc...

...in fact, I don't plan on seeing any other season one eps until IFA....

Darn cartoon network....why can't you share?

Squall

04-15-2002, 05:12 PM

"Catering to the comic book fans is fine, but reading the comics shouldn't be a prerequisite for watching a TV show."

I agree completely! As a HUGE Batman: TAS, Superman:TAS, Justice League, and Batman Beyond fan who has never read the comic books -- in other words, the Dini/Timm animated DC Universe is the only DC Universe I've ever known (and the "official" DC Universe to me, personally), I'm GLAD that Dini, Timm & Co. have basically re-invented the DC Universe from scratch for the TV audience. They smartly said long ago that they would do this, and it would be REAL confusing for us non-comic book readers who love these four TV shows to watch if all they did was cater to the comic book fans!

The advantage of DC Comics having several versions of its "Universe" -- animation, comic books, live action TV shows and movies, etc. -- is that you can choose whichever "Universe" you want to be your "official" one! I personally chose to make the Dini/Timm animated DC Universe (all four TV shows, together as one massive storyline) my "official" DC Universe, but everyone can choose their own! And that's what makes that idea so great. :D

By the way, am I the only one who thinks that "Fury" would have been a GREAT episode for Commissioner Gordon and Batgirl to have appeared in? I was surely hoping Gordon would have been leading that police unit in front of the gem depository in Part I, and I think it would have been great to see Batgirl trying to help out in Gotham City during the plague scare in Part II (I'm sure she helped out anyway, it just wasn't on screen).

And am I the only one who misses the "red" Gotham City skies of Batman: TAS. It made it SO easy to tell that you were in Gotham City!

DisneyBoy

04-15-2002, 05:48 PM

Here, here! However, the thing that bothers most people (myself included) is that the Justice League characters have spent more time kicking butt than being developped. Sure, we already knew about Batman and Superman, while Flash and Green Lantern weren't unknown, but Diana and Hawkgirl really deserved some kind of origin. It's odd how the first arc's title "Secret Origins" is so ironic: The only origin we get to see is that of J'onn J'onz. They instead should have called it "Formation" or something.

Some have said that they prefer not knowing who Hawkgirl is or where she's from, but frankly, it's been driving me crazy! Especially since there are so many new villains and locations being thrown at us all at once. I'm really starting to feel like if I ever want an idea of who the Leaguers are, I have to go to the comics to find it! :mad:

I'd really like to see an arc next season where the JL just sit on their butts in the watchtower for and hour and fill us in on all those questions Dini and co. haven't answered:

I can see it now:

This Liza Gibbons with a special report: Joining us now, from their Watchtower satellite in continuous orbit, the seven member Justice League!

All: Hello. :)

Liza: Thanks for offering to do this interview.

MM: It is our pleasure. ;)

Liza: Oh! :D Well...please call me Liza! :o (blushing) We have a caller on line one...

DisneyBoy: Hello League! I was just wondering, Hawkgirl, are those wings real? :confused:

HG: Who am I? :eek: Britney Spears? That's none of your buisness you little pig! :mad:

Liza: :o ....um....Ok, let's all just calm down here! Sidney's on line 2... :)

Sidney: Hi..um....Wonder Woman...why doesn't your lasso evoke the truth like it used to? :confused:

WW: My Lasso is supposed to evoke the truth?!?! :eek: GREAT HERA!! :eek:

Supes: Calm down Diana. :rolleyes:

Liza:...hrmph....on a first name basis are we? :mad:

Supes: No! It's not like that! :o

Flash: SUUUUUURE it isn't! :D I know what you're up to! They don't call it X-rated vision for nothing! :D

Liza: :o ..Um..moving right along...next caller is Carly....

Carly: Why isn't Paul Dini involved with the writing? :confused:

MM: (sighs) here we go... :o

GL:...we'll hunt down whoever is responsible from keeping him off the show!!! :mad:

Batsy: You couldn't hunt down your ring if it was on your finger! :p

Carly: You tell em Bats! I always thought GL was a dope! :cool:

Liza:...Um...now hold on there Carly... :o

MM: Batman, John, please calm yoursel..

GL: WHY DON'T YOU CALL ME BY MY HERO NAME? :mad:

WW: YAH! :mad:

HG: OH, GO PRAISE A GOD! :mad:

WW: (gasps) A sister ...you would turn against your own sister ? :eek: :mad:

Flash: Woohoo! Cat fight!!! :D

Supes: Quiet everyone!!! :(

GL: STOP HOGGING ALL THE GLORY E.T.!!! :mad:

Supes: WHY YOU!!! :mad:

HG: LOOK OUT EVERYBODY!! SUPES IS GOING TO FRY US WITH HIS SPOOKY VISION!!! :rolleyes:

Flash: DON'T TRY TOO HARD - YOU MIGHT KNOCK YOURSELF OUT! :D

Liza: WHOA!!! EVERYBODY PLEASE...! :eek:

Batsy: Don't MAKE me knock you all out! :mad:

Flash: Oh...GO SIT ON A BATARANG!!! :mad:

(Mass chaos ensues)

Yup...that would make for a memorable episode... :)

Blight

04-15-2002, 06:19 PM

Lol, that was hilarious Disneyboy! :D Anyways, this episode was another great one! Everything about this episode was superb! Lots of great drama, action and voice acting. I thought Olivia D'Abo was really great as Star Sappire. Didn't she also voice Queen of The Royal Flush Gang in Batman Beyond? It sure sounded like it.

The only thing this episode was missing was the male heroes! I missed them. But other than that, it was great.

See ya!
Blight

Frank White

04-15-2002, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Squall
[B
And am I the only one who misses the "red" Gotham City skies of Batman: TAS. It made it SO easy to tell that you were in Gotham City! [/B]

Nope, I loved those red skies, it made Gotham stand out.

Livewire

04-20-2002, 05:31 PM

After what I considered to be a very good first part, the second part of "Fury" was kind of a disappointment. I liked it, but I think it could have been a lot better.

It was mostly a lot of fighting. I was hoping to see what became of the infected IG members, but that wasn't to be. I found it odd when the Queen entered from out of nowhere. I didn't think she would ever set foot on "Man's World". Btw, how did she know where to find Aresia? (And is it just me, or is she always getting kidnapped?) But, since she is the leader of a strong, warrior race, shouldn't she be very strong as well? Shouldn't she have escaped from the rope and chains ~snap~ just like that?

I also thought J'onn should have had a better excuse for becoming infected than "I touched Superman's costume." Why would he? Granted, he may not have known he was susceptible to the allergen, but at least the reason could have been something like, "Due to his Martian physiology, it took longer to affect him." Or, something like that. :p

All in all, an average episode that had such promise after a great first part. I gave part one 4 stars, and I gave part two, 3, because after watching it, I came away feeling as if something was lacking.

DerekPowers

04-20-2002, 06:42 PM

i finally saw fury part 2 today, and it was a very nice follow up to part 1.

i liked that theres was lots of action, and LOTS of cool fighting scenes w/ all the girls on the show. star saphire's powers are really cool.

i think part 1 was better cause it had more IG villians in it, but i expected them not to be in this ep. i was alittle dissapointed with the portrayl of gotham city, it should have been much more, um, gothic. oh well.

i have a few questions though...how did aresia and the others expect the world to go on w/out men?? how would they have kids and keep the human race going??? what were they thinking???

now, this part is for mature posters, but, did anyone else pick up on the hints that aresia and sukari were pehaps a couple?? sukari seemed to be the only ig member who was in on aresia's plan from the start. there were other subtle things which i cant remember right now, but at the end sukari's like "i like you babe, but not that much" or something like that.

also, i feel there were real lesbian undertones to this ep, like when aresia explains the plan to star staphire, whos like "why would we want a world w/out men" and aresia and sukari look at each other, and then star saphire like starts making grossed out faces. also, it seemed like if you were killing off men, then the only logical turn would be lesbianism, right?

and hg's whole 'dont knock it till you try it" comment to dianna, i dont know, was i the only one who picked on this or am i completely crazy??

cartoongirl

04-21-2002, 12:41 AM

"Fury Part II" was the best episode I've saw in Justice League.

Joe Tully

04-21-2002, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by Livewire

I also thought J'onn should have had a better excuse for becoming infected than "I touched Superman's costume." Why would he? Granted, he may not have known he was susceptible to the allergen, but at least the reason could have been something like, "Due to his Martian physiology, it took longer to affect him." Or, something like that. :p

The thing that most disappointed me about that was that it not only said that he was similar enough to a human male for it to affect him, but that it said that he was male. While it's possible that the disease was meant to infect all males of all species, explaining why J'onn and Superman could potentially be infected, I had preferred to think that J'onn was neither male nor female. J'onn is from Mars and doesn't necessarily fit into the simple gender categorizations of Earth. While he looks somewhat similar to a male in his original form in Secret Origins, when he's standing there nude in his first appearance, there's no...er...evidence that he's male. In fact, while many of Earth's organisms have male & female counterparts, there are alternatives, such as bacteria that reproduce asexually through division, and many fungi which have of hundreds of genders which can each reproduce with the genders other than their own. There are other examples of being neither or both male/female on Earth alone, and to me it seemed both more likely and more intriguing to think of J'onn as being unlike humans in this regard.

Maxie Zeus

04-22-2002, 12:46 PM

There is also something odd about the idea that a shapeshifter has a definite set of sexual organs. Do those organs remain invariant thru the various transformations? Or is J'onn able to fake any set of sexual organs? If he can fake any set, but only the male organs work, what is it about his physiology that he must retain THAT aspect of himself?

Bottom line, it seems to me that either J'onn has an important limit on his shape shifting abilities (he's a male, and can only DISGUISE himself as a female) or he does not have a determinate sex, and Martians reproduce asexually.

Think of Clayface, who may have started as a man, and retains the psychology, but doesn't have any definite set of, ah, equipment anymore.

(Also, if J'onn lacks a definite sex, he would certainly not have a sex drive. That would go a long way toward explaining why he is such a cold fish. :p )

hawkfu

04-22-2002, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus
There is also something odd about the idea that a shapeshifter has a definite set of sexual organs. Do those organs remain invariant thru the various transformations? Or is J'onn able to fake any set of sexual organs? If he can fake any set, but only the male organs work, what is it about his physiology that he must retain THAT aspect of himself?

Bottom line, it seems to me that either J'onn has an important limit on his shape shifting abilities (he's a male, and can only DISGUISE himself as a female) or he does not have a determinate sex, and Martians reproduce asexually.

Think of Clayface, who may have started as a man, and retains the psychology, but doesn't have any definite set of, ah, equipment anymore.

(Also, if J'onn lacks a definite sex, he would certainly not have a sex drive. That would go a long way toward explaining why he is such a cold fish. :p )

Well Martian Manhunter from DC comics is definitely a male. Part of his origin is that he lost his wife and children.

murmur

04-23-2002, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by DerekPowers
now, this part is for mature posters, but, did anyone else pick up on the hints that aresia and sukari were pehaps a couple?? sukari seemed to be the only ig member who was in on aresia's plan from the start. there were other subtle things which i cant remember right now, but at the end sukari's like "i like you babe, but not that much" or something like that.

also, i feel there were real lesbian undertones to this ep, like when aresia explains the plan to star staphire, whos like "why would we want a world w/out men" and aresia and sukari look at each other, and then star saphire like starts making grossed out faces. also, it seemed like if you were killing off men, then the only logical turn would be lesbianism, right?

and hg's whole 'dont knock it till you try it" comment to dianna, i dont know, was i the only one who picked on this or am i completely crazy?? IMO, it wouldn't be the first time there was a small degree of lesbian innuendo in a Timm series. (E.g., who was the woman with Maggie Sawyer in Apokolips Now? And I'm sure there have been a couple Ivy-Harley hints every once in a while.) Even Cartoon Network's more liberal censor standards would have a major problem with anything overt, but I don't think you're off-base. The thing is that because these things can only be hinted at, there's no good way of knowing whether they're just in our imagination or the writers' intentions as well. And if you ask the writers about something like this, you're probably not gonna get the straitest of answers (pun not intended) because they'd have to be PC but not alert the censors.

JusticeLeagueLegion

04-24-2002, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by murmur
IMO, it wouldn't be the first time there was a small degree of lesbian innuendo in a Timm series. (E.g., who was the woman with Maggie Sawyer in Apokolips Now? And I'm sure there have been a couple Ivy-Harley hints every once in a while.) Even Cartoon Network's more liberal censor standards would have a major problem with anything overt, but I don't think you're off-base. The thing is that because these things can only be hinted at, there's no good way of knowing whether they're just in our imagination or the writers' intentions as well. And if you ask the writers about something like this, you're probably not gonna get the straitest of answers (pun not intended) because they'd have to be PC but not alert the censors.

I don't think so.

WonderRaver

04-24-2002, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by hawkfu

Well Martian Manhunter from DC comics is definitely a male. Part of his origin is that he lost his wife and children.

This fact doesn't PROVE that J'onn is male. A woman could have a wife (though not legally in many states) and kids. And thanks to Joe Kelly, current writer of JLA, J'onn has stated that he is "technically asexual"

It only makes sense to me that a shapeshifter would be asexual. I guess it would depend on whether or not "parts" they morphed worked. I saw some program on Discovery Channel that talked about a "sexshifting" reptile that was actually able to change sex (not an instantaneous process). It could tehnically fertilize its own eggs! Freaky, huh?

-Matt

Cere

04-25-2002, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by Blight
I thought Olivia D'Abo was really great as Star Sappire. Didn't she also voice Queen of The Royal Flush Gang in Batman Beyond? It sure sounded like it.
Actually, she voiced Ten/Melanie Walker.

cartoonboy

04-25-2002, 01:08 PM

Finally got to see Fury.

1)When Batman was fighting the Ninja Girl, it looks like she took a slice out of his costume, was that part of his ear? I watched the scene in slow but couldn't pick up anything. What was sliced?

2)Good to see Superman distributing the antidote at the end, still redeming his name from Legacy

3)I thought Flash's identity was publicly known? Maybe in the comics at one point? Why was his mask kept on?

SimonMoon5

04-25-2002, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by hawkfu

Well Martian Manhunter from DC comics is definitely a male. Part of his origin is that he lost his wife and children.

And during a Justice League Task Force story, a select group of female superheroes was sent on an adventure involving investigating an area where an all-female (and green-skinned) tribe lived. Since J'onn always led the Task Force, he went in as a woman. And then, he romanced another woman, one of the green tribe, and was nearly stuck there, having to marry her... and then J'onn found out that this was the one member of the tribe that wasn't completely female. :D

SimonMoon5

04-25-2002, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by cartoonboy
3)I thought Flash's identity was publicly known? Maybe in the comics at one point? Why was his mask kept on?

Flash's identity is publicly known in the comics. In the comics, he continues to wear his costume in order to continue Barry Allen's legacy.

In the cartoon, his mask wasn't removed. Why? Well, probably because if his mask was removed, the viewers wouldn't know who that ordinary looking guy is supposed to be.

Joker Jr

08-16-2002, 01:39 PM

I just saw this episode today and I thought it was pretty good but one thing stuck out in my mind. When Wonder Woman lifts the truck that was blocking the road, the woman who was moaning just said "thanks" as calm as you like. Now, to me this seems like a very strange reaction, in fact it seemed surreal. Okay, I know it's a cartoon, but still.
What does everybody else think?

Drachentöter

12-28-2002, 01:07 PM

This was a good episode, but not as good as I remember it. I give the whole arc four stars.

When I first saw it, I must've been wowed by all the Amazons, because for some reason I considered it a five. Watching it this afternoon made me realize that it defintely could have been better.

For one thing, Aresia's voice actor wasn't all that great. Most of her lines were wooden and lacked emphasis. "Do as I tell you." Yawn.

This was also one of the worst cases of "Superwuss" syndrome ever. He didn't even land one punch or dodge one of Aresia's. Maybe it was to bring the point across. "This alergen is so strong, it can even bring down Superman." But it didn't help Superman's case at all. The few lines George Newbern delievered were well done though.

Wonder Woman needs a secret identity--bad. At least so it can make her stop wandering around in her star-spangled outfit while people don't say a word about it. I guess they all just know she's Wonder Woman and accept it...But what? No clamor for autographs? No star-struck fans? Hell, she's even yelled at!

Wonder Woman: "Why would any woman want to cover up her natural beauty?"
Woman: "Easy for you to say, Miss Cheekbones!"

The line was funny, though... :)

Use of the Injustice Gang was nice to watch, if a little pointless at the end. She did eventually take out the majority. I liked Copperhead's old voice better, however. Oh, and Tsukuri kicks major butt!

Things really get better in the last five minutes or so. The tension that surfaces when the men start succumbing to the disease really picks up the pace for part two.

Some other memorable lines:

Wonder Woman: Besides, Amazons never leave the island.
Batman: Never?

Hawkgirl: [Aresia's] an orphan. It's hard to imagine what that kind of trauma can do to a child.
Batman: (silence)

Part 2 was better than Part 1, but what brought it down a point was the ever-dreaded plot induced stupidity and huge, gaping plot holes.

I don't have a problem with Tsukuri helping Aresia on this nearsighted man-killing adventure, she seems to be a little out of it. And I can see the lesbian theory happening. "I like you, but not that much!"

I don't see why Star Sapphire would play along. Especially after Aresia said "You can say goodbye to all of them" referring to men. She looked shocked on that one. Yet next scene she's battling Diana and Hawkgirl. Perhaps she really is insane like her comic counterpart.

Why are there no references to Paradise Lost? It's noble of Diana to risk her life for the mother who banished her, but a viewer who hadn't seen the previous Amazon episode wouldn't know it. I don't like how the side stepped an issue as big as that one.

And speaking of side-stepping, notice how Hippolyta dodged the accusations Aresia made? "So everything you ever preached was a lie!"

"Not everything."

And then Aresia conviniently reverts to her gendercidal (is that a word?) self. This would have been a good opportunity to see an Amazon reform or at least the beginnings of one. I guess the time constraints were too much for it. Shame.

Anyway, Hawkgirl came closest and she had some of the best lines:

HG: "Aresia's just taking your precious Amazon code to its logical extension."
WW: "We don't preach hatred."
HG: "Except when it comes to men."

HG: "Who wants to live in a world without men?"
WW: "They can't possibily be that essential to your esistence."
HG: "Don't knock it 'till you've tried it, Princess."

...Not essential to their existence? :eek: WHA?

This isn't Paradise Island, people aren't made out of clay. And we aren't run by those crazy mad scientists who claim they've made the first human clone.

I believe J'onn is male for the purposes of the animated series. After all, he has a wife and children. He was affected by the disease. And in a show that targets seven-to-twelve year olds, they aren't going to discuss asexuality, transsexuality, or any form of sexuality period. But wasn't the allergen airborne anyway? You'd think J'onn would have fallen much quicker, being surrounded by four infected patients. I guess Martians don't breathe...

Anyway, overall it was still pretty enjoyable. I appreciate all-woman episodes every once in awhile. This was also the closest we've come to a Hawkgirl spotlight.

Flash: "I definitely could have taught that bad babe a thing or two about guys. Too bad we never met." *burps*
Wonder Woman: "Maybe it's just as well."

The Detective

12-28-2002, 03:33 PM

Revival you say? Man, I hate old threads that get resurected. But I never was a fan of this story arc anyway. I just watched a little bit of it anyway. I haven't even been watching the reruns much.
-As you said, Wonder Woman needs an identity BAD! I mean that first part was just kind of silly.
- SUperman was a Superwuss in this episode.
-Batman did have some good line though.
-I guess I'm done ranting.

tarheelmed02

12-30-2002, 02:21 PM

I liked this ep. even though it was a man-bashing one. I'm glad HG didn't feel the same way was others did and at the end Diana came around too, I think. It was nice to see Bats display his samuri skills against Sakuri. I also this that whole Hippolyta/Diana think should've been addressed. I liked this ep. both parts. It's on my short list of favs.

OH, and showing the men of JL with mask on was really weird to see. I think they should be normal in the watchtower. I know the whole secret ID thing, but hopefully in S2 they can address that issue so that we can see them in normal things. That would be nice to see.

Nemesis

12-31-2002, 05:52 AM

I really enjoyed this episode as well as part 1. I thought it was a great opportunity to see the women in action and capable of handling an emergency on their own and with a little luck. I also thought the palette of colors was more interesting than previous episodes. The shot of Batman and Wonder Woman on top of the roof in part 1 was dark and moody as well as nice to look at.
I only have a few minor gripes. Number 1 is that Wonder Woman is only alive because Aresia threw a panel at her that threw her clear of the explosion. Not a decisive win. Number 2 is that as good as Aresia's origin was, we still haven't seen WW or Hawkgirls. and that just plain hurts . :) And by the way VortexInfinite- the word you meant was genocidal(said in a non-condescending, helpful way) :)

The Penguin

09-24-2005, 12:54 AM

Tonight at 2 a.m. ET Cartoon Network airs the Justice League arc, Fury. This thread is a new merge of the original talkbacks for Part 1 and Part 2. Season One talkbacks now match our Season Two talkbacks, which is one per arc because the episodes originally aired in one hour blocks.

http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/jl/tb.jpg

Episode #16 - Fury, Part 1
Original Airdate - April 7th, 2002

When a renegade Amazon named Aresia takes over Lex Luthor's old gang, Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl must team up to stop her from destroying Man's world.

Episode #17 - Fury, Part 2
Original Airdate - April 14th, 2002

With the man's population quickly dropping, Hawkgirl and Wonder Woman rush to stop Areshia from unleashing her plague upon the world.

Comments?

I don't know about you all, but personally I'm happy to finally see this one air after "Injustice For All."

Jazzie

09-24-2005, 08:48 AM

Was the asian warrior chick the DCAU version of Shiva?

Batman Fan

09-24-2005, 09:40 AM

I think this a great episode, and gives WW and Hawkgirl some time to shine, as well as having them work together for the first time. This is a real girl power episode, and I enjoyed it a lot, WW and Hawkgirl played off each other very nicely in there situation, and we got another nice villan to add to JL's gallery.

Part 1: This episode starts off to a great start with Batman single-handling taking down almost the entire Injustice Gang, sure a bit unbelievable, but fun to watch nonetheless, and when you think about it, since he's already faced most of them before, I'm sure he would've been prepared and have a logical plan to take out all of them. Loved how the brought back Hippolyta and Themiscara for this episode. It was a great idea to make the villan from WW's home, and made even more sense as the episode progressed. Loved when Hawkgirl was sneaking around the island to discover stuff about Aresia. Her origin story was very tragic, and even more tragic when we find out what irony it has in part two. It was also cool that she put in the part about Aresia's training and trasnformation into an Amazon in there. Aresia's virus, disease thing was very clever and I loved how she slowly one by one took out each male member of the JL with the virus. Ok, this episode was a bit slow though, the stuff with the Injustice Gang wasn't that thrilling, and the covered up the true purpose of this episode. Oh, and WW shopping part at the beginning. That was really funny. But anyways, Batman's revelation that this virus is contagious and is only affecting the male half was a nice cliffhanger to part two, as you knew he could only last out for so much longer.

Part 2: This episode starts out really nice, with the remaining 3 members, tidiously running around the city trying to control the chaos and with the inability of any male firefighters or police to assist them. Batman stopping the runaway bus was a nice scene, but afterwards we're only left with 2, WW and Hawkgirl. These two played off each other great. While WW you could tell couldn't see anything wrong with the annihilation of man, Hawkgirl proves her point many times. It was cool seeing WW and Hawkgirl, as well as the rest of the female population take control of the situation. The final 10 minutes was great. When Aresia kidnaps Hippolyta, there's a nice fight between her and SS and Tsukuri vs. WW and Hawkgirl. The finale was great, WW did a great job showing off the amount of power she has by decommishioning the aircraft, and fighting SS and trying to protect Hawkgirl in the Javelin. The ultimate revelation that Aresia was saved by man, was ironic indeed. The modified scene to origin had a very touching scene when Hippolyta buried the man who save her. Of course this doesn't change her mind, but leads to a brutal fight between her and WW, while Hawkgirl is making sure that the missles of the gas aren't launched.

Overall, it was great to get another Amazon character who shares the same motives and vision, only uses those to higher extent than others. The plot was simple yet made sense, we got to see our female characters take charge and interact with each other in a great way. The action was good, but the animation was a bit lacking, and the episode did get slow at points and felt empty like they could've added more. Some parts they extended way too long, and while it was cool to see and Amazon villan, this one was bland, and just not to threatning at all. But, those are just minor flaws to a pretty good episode.

****