Download..or Steal?

[JustJack]

So, I've been doing all of this music downloading, & CD burning this weekend, & so I'm just wondering this one important question...

Do you feel that these music/film/etc. Downloading services are right? Do you feel that it's just downloading the music, & it's not hurting anyone...or do you feel that it's stealing? Do you feel that we are taking money out of the pockets of entertainers?

IMO: It ain't stealing at all. Sure, I DL a lot of stuff, & I might burn a LOT of CDs, but really...CD sales havent dropped much, if even at all.

In the end, Lars Alritch of Metallica can whine all he wants, but really...when he's the rich jerk, & we're the poor guy's who can't afford the CD, it's not going to hurt his wallet one bit for anyone to download a little preview of the CD before we can buy it. It's "artists" like that who make the world into a giant wad of money, instead of trying to produce something for the people to just enjoy... :cool:

[Lightwave]

i do it all the time.i don't think its illegal :cool:

[Zechs]

Hey they make enough money as it stands give us a break. Stealing would be taking the song and saying you made it your self. Besides I would hate to buy a CD for one song and find out that the rest suck.

[ccffan01]

I'll have to say illegal my dad brainwashes me he's in the muscians union.

[Joe Tully]

Well, it IS illegal, there's no debating that. What you can debate is whether it is morally wrong. I will admit I've done it in the past, though I haven't done it lately...I don't have a moral problem with it. Depending on who you ask, you'll get an answer that downloading mp3s is either good or bad for the music business. Right now, I think it's more likely that those who say it's good are right and don't have a problem with it. But then, I buy CDs and don't burn them all from downloaded files. :rolleyes:

[Calhoun07]

Is it any more illegal than taping songs off of the radio? I recall back in the hey day of cassette tapes the blank cassette recording industry came under heavy fire the way the blank CD industry is coming under fire right now. It was determined if you make the tapes for your own PERSONAL USE it wasn't illegal. But if you burned 1000 copies and put them up on E-Bay and sold them for profit, then you were in trouble of doing something illegal. And if I recall right, the prices of blank tapes went up because they suddenly had to pay the record companies a cetain royalty for the loss of sales.

I personally use MP3s off the Internet the way I recorded songs off the radio years ago. Right now I am downloading Return to Me by Dean Martin. I am not a Dean Martin fan, but that song appeals to me, and I want just that song. I am not ever going to buy a Dean Martin CD, and if I could not get the song, I would be able to live my life tomorrow just fine, but since the technology is available to me, I am going to down load it and make a personal copy of that song just for me. That is no more illegal than when I used to tape songs I liked off the radio.

The record companies are all complaining CDs are dropping in sales. Do you blame the consumers when CDs are rocketing in price upwards to 18 dollars or more in certain instances? Personally, I would rather buy a good DVD than a so-so CD. And most of the popular music lately has just been so-so. And I really think CDs compete more with DVDs than they do with MP3s.

In a recent article about this in Video Store Magazine, it talked about the only thing that helped record stores turn a profit last year were the sales of sell thru DVDs. HELLO, that's where people are focusing their attention and spending their money. MP3 isn't hurting the music industry any more than people taping off the radio, but the lack of quality in music these days and the spiralling costs of CDs are turning people off. It turns me off. There are only a few CDs I buy now cuz of the costs and I would rather buy DVDs.

Another thing is I doubt people would spend the time trying to download all the songs from one artist from one CD. I use WINMX and can say that I hardly find entire CDs by people out there, so it would be awfully hard to do that.

[Elven Moon]

I don't think it's really "stealing" in a sense. Like others have said, it's no different than taping a song off the radio, or burning a copy of a CD for a friend. I don't download as much as I use to (after Morpheus introduced it's "Preview" version, which I don't like so don't use all that much), although I rarely purchase CDs nowadays anyway.

If I want a single song, just one song (two or three at most), I don't want to spend the $20 to get the one song and 15 others that I don't like and won't listen to. It's a waste of money for me, I have better things to spend that on. Plus, I can find songs from old and/or out-of-print CDs and records that I would probably not find anywhere. Even other language songs that may only be available in their native countries (ex: French Pokemon songs) I can find and download if I want. I couldn't waltz into any Walmart or Media Play and find those, could I?

[Zapages]

I say I just download music which is not available in stores and is foreign music which is not even Copyrighted for some reason...

It's not illegal IMO... because it helps the business for foreign markets to expand in other areas like USA..

I probably say no one here probably heard about music bands or artist named...

Groups
Vital Signs- My favorite group
Junoon
Awaz

Artists
Abar ul Haq -
Junad Jamshed - my favorite
Ali Hader
Shazad Roy

But if I am able to find them in legal stores I probably would buy the CD or Cassete...

[Chris Sanders MSX]

It's no worse than when MTV 2 plays a whole album on Tv or when Radio Stations play songs from an album that weren't listed as singles.

Honestly I mostly download Singles and then I'll look for unreleased stuff or overseas exclusives and from time to time I'll download more than just the single to see if the rest of thes tuff is as good and if it is I usually go out and buy the album or I go see the artist on tour if I downloaded the whole thing.

And if I really like the artist I'll buy the album even though I downloaded it anyway, for example koRn.. I mean I have most of the new album but i'm still paying for the album in the store because they are IMO the best band ever and deserve the support..

With Alien AntFarm, The Gorillaz and Linkin Park.. I make my best effort to see them on tour when ever I can. Because as everyone in the biz knows artists make most of there money on tour.

I'm looking back to when some artist told it's fans to steal there album from record stores because they get paid anyway..artists don't care about stealing as long as they get money(some of them).

My whole thing is if your going to download music from an artist or group of artists atleast support them in some way... so that they can actually make more music so you'll actually have something to download from them the next time around.

And heres a tid bit. Almost every artist who had there entire album leaked to the net wound up breaking records/ doing very well...Examples are Eminem The marshall Mathers LP,Best of Both worlds R.Kelly and Jay-Z (I've had the album for about 3 months before it's release) ..

It's good advertisement and alot of people who download songs don't have burners and wind up buying it anyway because they want to take the songs they've had time to fall in love with'em on the road.

[Spooky05]

is it illegal? IMO, no. i make music, and personaly, you should get into the industry to make music that other people will hear. that is your goal. if that isn't your priority and making thousands upon thousands of dollars is, than you shouldn't be in the business. if you don't want people to hear your music, then don't make it. i d/l music from audiogalaxy that i can't get anywhere else, like obscure punk/rock/ska that is local to friends of mine on the east coast or j-pop/rock, like bonnie pink or shounen knife. there is no way i can walk into a sam goody in south texas and find either V6 or Glay, and if i do, its upwards of $20 some-odd dollars that i don't have.

another way that it isn't really effecting the wallets of artists is that, frankly, CDs and cassetts are merely promotional tools for concerts, where they make the real money by selling tickets and merchendise. there are about 100 credits on one CD, dividing up its cost and where the percentage of that money goes. only about 8 said credits make their way to the artist, while the rest go to the record company and the distributers and manufacturers. Lars Ulrich is a whiney little spoiled brat that is so used to making money from metallica that when someone threatens his 'livlihood.' that and he wants attention.

ok..that is my daily deep-thought/rant. i will now take my leave before i get attacked by lars fans.

[Failure]

Is it illegal? Yes

Is it stealing? Yes

Am I thief? Yes.

Simple as that. :rolleyes:

[Chris Sanders MSX]

You really are a failure. :p

[Zechs]

Yeah seems that most artists are in it for the cash. Sell outs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[atf487]

Well, it will be illegal. But if you use gnutella, they can't shut it down. Which means free w@r3z or mp3z for all. There ya have it.

[Evil Dr. Reef]

Originally posted by Failure
Is it illegal? Yes

Is it stealing? Yes

Am I thief? Yes.

Simple as that. :rolleyes:
Same here. :D

[Pilmedium]

If you don't want a whole set of songs, or if it can't be found in your area, you should be allowed to download. Even if the music artists think it hurts sales, why should they care? They're rich, right?

[Failure]

Originally posted by Pilmedium
Even if the music artists think it hurts sales, why should they care? They're rich, right?


Originally posted by Zechs Yeah seems that most artists are in it for the cash. Sell outs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, it's this type of thinking that really ticks me off.

#1. 95% of musicians sell less than 10,000 copies of their record.
Thus,
#2. Those musicians are poor.
and
#3. I just find it amazing that there's such a double standard for musicians and the rest of the world. #1. I will say without a doubt in my mind that most artists are notin it for the cash. You might want to discuss this with those 95% poor musicians who continue to make music despite their struggles. #2. It appalls me that when a musician wants enough $ to eat regularly or live a nice life, they're called sell outs. Guess what? You just described 99% of everyone in the world as sell outs. Anyone here working, or planning on working in the future? Guess what, you're all sellouts.

Should musicians be in it for the music? Yes, 100% that should be their main inspiration. Should it be held against them that they want to make money? Hell no. Sell-out is not a word that should be bandied around wantonly.

Rationalize all you want, downloading - if you don't already own the song is stealing. The difference between taping a song off radio and downloading it is, that radio stations paid for the rights to distribute the song. File sharing networks haven't. And that's where the problem is. However, I don't believe it's necessarily detrimental stealing, like say embezzling money from a company.

[Zorakfan]

Ooooh...kay...

Was that supposed to alter my stance on downloading music? Kazaa's still sitting there in the background.

Oh well, if you're a sell out, you're a sell out. You try to be nice to people, but you'll always be screwed over by a person or peoples, and I get screwed over on a regular basis and am treated rather poorly by 80% of the people I meet, so frankly I don't give a damn. Besides, Nick just did some crap propaganda show (I can tell because now my sisters are in my face about it. Little sheep) trying to get kids to stop downloading music, and because it's the word of Nick, I must do everything in my power to see it is not obeyed.

[Zechs]

It's not stealing hey I plan to be a writer and most of them have to live from pay check to pay check if you can't deal get out of the biz. Besides the only people I hear complaing are the ones in it for the cash. I've heard some musicans say it was a good thing the only true way to get their music out to make a fan base. Other wise they'd still be in that hot grage with no true fans to speak of. Call it what you want but if I need to use it will. ( not like I'm killing people sakes).

[Failure]

Originally posted by Zechs
It's not stealing hey I plan to be a writer and most of them have to live from pay check to pay check if you can't deal get out of the biz. Besides the only people I hear complaing are the ones in it for the cash. I've heard some musicans say it was a good thing the only true way to get their music out to make a fan base. Other wise they'd still be in that hot grage with no true fans to speak of. Call it what you want but if I need to use it will. ( not like I'm killing people sakes).

I'm not saying people shouldn't download. I do it and I'll continue to do it, thus my original statement that I'm a thief. Plain and true, it's out there for everyone to see. And like I said before, I don't think it's necessarily detrimental. In fact, I think it is helpful in many ways. All I'm saying is it is, in fact, by definition, stealing. Which is what this thread is about "Download.. or steal?" not "moral or immoral."

For example, Zechs, say you were a writer. And one day someone bought one of your books. And he thought it was so good, he photocopied a 100 copies for his friends. Then say, 5 of the friends liked the book so much that they bought the genuine copy for themselves. But there's 95 other people with your work, that they didn't pay for. So would you consider that stealing? Keep in mind, I'm not questioning the morality, I'm debating the definition.

[RogueMartian]

It is not stealing. Like someone said before, stealing would be if I recorded it and then told everyone I wrote the song.

Also it is NO different from taping a song off of the radio. Sure when the radio plays a song they pay royalties to the artists, but I don't pay anyone if I record the song from the radio. I listen to the song over and over again and I never paid anyone a dime.

Now, you can debate whether or not its morally wrong to download the songs. Personally, I think it depends on if you plan to support the artist. Because that's what buying CDs and going to concerts is: supporting the artist(or their memory). For the most part, if there is an artist I like and I believe is worthy of spending my hard earned cash on, then I will buy the cd. But if some one-hit-wonder comes around, whose CD i will never buy because its one good song and fifteen garbage tracks, then I won't ever buy it. I work hard, If I have 20 bucks to kill, its going towards a DVD(a medium I'd much rather support), not a CD.

[zmanjz]

here's how I see it (by way of a comparison)....

If you kill someone, you're a murderer.
but
If you kill Osama Bin Laden, you're a hero.

If you take something not yours you're a thief.
but
If you rob a thief, it's ironic justice.

I see record companies as thieves on the level of con men, forcing people to buy all kinds of crap to get a single good song.... Hmmm, I like 1 song from that cd.... it costs 19.95.... is that a rip off? YES.

My other problem is with how much time must pass before something becomes public domain.


DON't GET ME STARTED ON INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAWS!!! (freakin' Bern Convention)

[Feslmogh]

AudioFile has recently posted an artical (http://www.techtv.com/audiofile/features/story/0,23008,3375017,00.html) about file downloading.

From my point of view, I have download songs from Napster and other sites that are hard to find and remixes. For example I had over 300 cd's stolen form my car (luckly mosrt of them were encoded). One of my favorite was Whitecross' "In The Kingdom", which I hadn't encoded yet. I feared I couldn't get that album anymore. I did find the title track availible dor download on a foriegn site. A few days later, I went to Macon. Ga on vacation and visited a local christain store and guess what? They had the album! I imediatly grabbed it.

Another example... My local radio station (http://www.thefishatlanta.com) hap a special MP3 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Images_of_WTC/files/With%20Hope%20-%20The%20Fish%20Edition%20%282%29.mp3) of Steven Curtis Chapman's "With Hope" (http://www.stevencurtischapman.com/discography_detail.html?stamp=20020408&artist=scc&width1=720&width2=420&width3=120&width4=300&bg1=627DB7&bg2=4D67A1&bg3=35518E&bg4=1E386F&bg5=EECA34&bg6=A2B7D8&bg7=EECA34&bg8=86A0CB&track_id=129). Of course I have the album from which it came from and the trax.

Now, do you think I was stealing?

[ButteredToast]

I download music, yes.... but as a preview for buying future albums. I don't have money just lying around to shovel off to the music industry for buying 90% crap/10%gold, so I'll download the songs, give them a listen, and if I like them, I buy the CD. If I don't, the songs are deleted and I go on my merry way. I also use it as a means to turn myself on to new music. I don't listen to radio, and I don't watch eMpTyV, so I need some kind of input for my listening pleasure, and downloading songs off the net works as well as anything else.

[Failure]

Originally posted by RogueMartian
It is not stealing. Like someone said before, stealing would be if I recorded it and then told everyone I wrote the song.

Actually I believe the term for this is plagiarism. Stealing in its own right, but different from p2p file sharing.

I've heard the 1 good song, 12 crap song argument, but I have to say, none, I mean NONE of my CDs would I consider in that category. Maybe half good/half bad is the worst in my collection, and that's pretty rare. I mean are we talking about an nsync cd, britney? Prefabricated pop? Does anybody even consider them musicians? Shouldnt you expect that the non singles are gonna suck on those albums?

[Calhoun07]

When I buy a CD, I make sure it's of a band/artist I really like, and I am rarely disappointed in the non-singles tracks. In fact, there are artists out there who have stonger songs that never make it to the radio, IMO. I have heard more crap on the radio than I have heard on my CDs of material that has never been released as singles. That's not a blanket rule, as I don't think it would apply to every artist (let's face it, there are those people who do put their best stuff out as singles and the rest of the album is crap. But those are usually the teen-pop bands, not the artists who have actual depth to their body of work) but I have heard quite a bit of great stuff that never makes it to the radio. It's just too good for radio.

[Zechs]

Originally posted by Failure


I'm not saying people shouldn't download. I do it and I'll continue to do it, thus my original statement that I'm a thief. Plain and true, it's out there for everyone to see. And like I said before, I don't think it's necessarily detrimental. In fact, I think it is helpful in many ways. All I'm saying is it is, in fact, by definition, stealing. Which is what this thread is about "Download.. or steal?" not "moral or immoral."

For example, Zechs, say you were a writer. And one day someone bought one of your books. And he thought it was so good, he photocopied a 100 copies for his friends. Then say, 5 of the friends liked the book so much that they bought the genuine copy for themselves. But there's 95 other people with your work, that they didn't pay for. So would you consider that stealing? Keep in mind, I'm not questioning the morality, I'm debating the definition.


Hey if I'm makeing enought money why worry as long as they don't say they wrote it its' fine with me. I wish I could write that good when I start. Besides I plan to have job so if I don't make enought money for whatever reason I can pay my bills and eat. People are going do what they want so just be ready to do what it takes no matter what your POV is. The people who wnat to hunt thest people down and shut them down are mostly greedy anyway. I'm in it for the art Idon't know about the rest.

[Failure]

Originally posted by Zechs



Hey if I'm makeing enought money why worry as long as they don't say they wrote it its' fine with me. I wish I could write that good when I start. Besides I plan to have job so if I don't make enought money for whatever reason I can pay my bills and eat. People are going do what they want so just be ready to do what it takes no matter what your POV is. The people who wnat to hunt thest people down and shut them down are mostly greedy anyway. I'm in it for the art Idon't know about the rest.

There's the clicker! "if I'm makeing enought money why worry" What if you're not? What if, as you said before, you were living paycheck to paycheck, and it wound up costing you a much needed paycheck? Companies dont care about how many downloads your song gets, it's all about $.

"The people who wnat to hunt thest people down and shut them down are mostly greedy anyway."

I agree here. Record companies are greedy little sob's. There's not one good thing I'd say about them. But if I was an artist, I would want control over how my material got out, at least for the purpose of quality control. I mean, there are plenty of mp3's out there that are encoded terribly. As an artist, there's a great deal of pride in what you do, and when people hear your material, you want them to have the best representation possible.

I want to reiterate that I dont think downloading is bad. On the contrary, I think it's a great tool for artists to get their music out to people and places where they couldn't before. Downloading is my radio, sans all the bs, politics, and payola. I've "discovered" so many great, new artists that I'd never have heard of before. I'm not sure whether downloading affects record sales positively or negatively, but on the basis of correlation alone, I'd say they have maybe a little positive effect.

All I'm saying is it is stealing, because you are taking something without due compensation. The main reason I think people refuse to accept this is because of the time-honored "stealing is bad" "thou shalt not steal" norms. Which is why people seem to heatedly defend themselves and rationalize by saying it's not stealing, so their behavior doesnt conflict with their existing attitudes on stealing a.k.a. cognitive dissonance. But even though I consider it stealing, I don't think it's bad. Against the law, yes, but morally wrong? Not necessarily. Honestly, downloading music is a very gray area IMO, it's not bad like stealing money from your friend, but it's not like you obtained the music by legal means either. I wholeheartedly support file sharing.

Honestly, I'm probably beating a dead horse, and we could go on and on forever. Plus, I'd probably just repeat myself as well, so unless I read an ignorant comment like "THEY'RE ALL RICH, WHO CARES!" I'm bowing out. It's been a pleasure debating with you Zechs. :)

[Andy Mancini]

I load MP3s because of my tastes in music. See, I have a strange taste in music. I listen to everything from They Might Be Giants to System of a Down to Harry Nilsson. My latest mix CD features "Somewhere Out There" by Our Lady Peace, "Rock Me Amadeus" by the obsure German Death metal band Umbra et Imago, the opening theme of "Urusei Yatsura", and "I'm Going Out With an Eighty Year Old Millionaire" by Kirsty MacColl all in a row. See, I told you it was weird.

None of the radio stations around (in Pittburgh) are truly free form. They all have playlists of some type. Even WYEP, a community station that prides itself on "a wide selection of music", has a playlist, abiet a small one. (Except on Friday night, however. That lady will play ANYTHING, but I digress.) I basically use the Internet as my radio. If WYEP plays something I like, I load it. If the X, the local "alternative" station plays something good, I load it. If I see a song from the eighties on VH1, I look for a cover. This process has helped me find things I would have never heard elsewhere.

As far as the "illeagal" goes, yes it is illeagal. It's as illeagal as recording an episode of "The Simpsons" off of the TV or "rebroadcasting Major Leauge Baseball with implied consent, not express written consent". I don't think it is immoral, however. I don't load whole albums, nor do I buy a CD and rip it to MP3. I just load a couple of tracks. If I like the tracks, I buy the album. If I don't, I delete them. It's as simple as that. Most of the stuff out there is stuff that radio won't touch with a ten foot pole. So I figure, if radio isn't giving me what I want, I'll look smoewhere else.

[Calhoun07]

I don't think you're too wierd, dj_gir. I myself have incredibly vast tastes in music....I go to extremes just like you do too.

By the way, if you know where I can get the Point on CD by Harry Nilsson, drop me a PM please.

[Feslmogh]

Protect Your Digital Music Rights
Gateway supports your right to enjoy digital music legally.
Digital technology and the Internet have made music more accessible and of higher quality than ever before. Today you can discover new artists on the Internet, burn your own mix CDs, take music with you on a compact MP3 player, and more.

But digital technology is being used by some people to make illegal copies. Illegal copies hurt the artists who create the music we enjoy.

Some content distributors and legislators believe the only way to prevent piracy is to prohibit all digital copying. Gateway believes we can all enjoy digital music legally and respect copyright laws.

Gateway believes:
You have the right to make copies for your own use of any CD you've purchased legally -- so you can listen to it in different locations and have a backup if something happens to your original copy.
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You have the right to download music from the Internet that you've paid for or that's been made available for download by the artist or record label.

Some content distributors want the government to regulate your ability to do these things. There's even a bill before the U.S. Senate that would force the technology industry to implement anti-piracy technology that could prevent all digital copying - even copying that's legal today under U.S. copyright laws.

If this concerns you, it's time to protect these rights. Take action. Write your senator and congressman.

Get more information at www.digitalconsumer.org, www.digmedia.org, or www.hrrc.org. Let's protect our right to legally use technology to improve the quality of life.

------------------------
Your Personal Rights & Responsibilities as an
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"Rip" and encode their own CD music collections into digital music files for their own personal use and enjoyment.

Make as many copies of their digital music files as they would like for their own personal use. This freely allows consumers to copy their MP3s on any number of their own computers in various locations, as well as on to their portable MP3 hardware players.

"Burn" their music files onto compact discs for their own personal use.

Copy and distribute their music files to members of their immediate family.


However, Gateway also strongly supports the rights of musicians and other copyright holders to decide how and where their music is distributed. We believe that artists, songwriters, publishers and record labels should be financially compensated for their work -- if they so desire. Although there is a lot of public misunderstanding over these issues, the U.S. copyright law and the 1997 NET Act are very clear about protecting these creator's rights. As such, we ask our customers (and all MP3 users) to comply with these laws by:


Not distributing copies of their digital music files to people outside their own immediate family, without permission of the copyright holder. This includes making unauthorized, full-length MP3s available to others through Email, compact discs, FTP sites and file-sharing utilities such as Napster and Gnutella. Whether for commercial gain or not, this behavior is against the law.

Supporting artists and labels that are making their music catalogs available for sale legitimately in MP3. By respecting their trust, it will encourage others to do the same.

We thank you for your interest and support of legitimate downloadable music. If you have questions or feedback about this document, please send email to: webmaster@gateway.com.

[Calhoun07]

I checked out gateway.com. They charge for their service to give you the MP3s and you can get 50 free in the first 14 days. What makes me leery is they require my credit card information to give me those free MP3s. Can we say....uh? NO. Been burned once too many times in something offering a free trial and before the trial is over, you are being charged for service you did not want, and you come to discover it's next to impossible to stop the service.

[Sir Gatts]

It's as RogueMartian said, it's just about no different than recording from a radio and playing it over again. Crazy thing is that MP3 is a compression. It is not an original format, just that MP3 has just about the same audio quality as the original but is not exact. The big issue here is not only about money but about control. No longer are the big record companies the only hard distributors of music for the masses.

It may sound as if I'm negating myself here but if I were to create my own music, I wouldn't mind recording under the MP3 compression format, that being the new original. Distribute it online to gain fan support and make my money through music tours and on the later, set up distribution with the big record companies as a one time payment deal with a better recording sample,.. which compressed back to MP3 would be almost no different than the first MP3 recordings already distributed throughout the internet.

(Example: Have record company C pay me a one time pay of $20,000 for a 12 song deal. Then by contract, let record company C keep all of earnings made by my songs.)

Anyway to get back on topic, as long as nobody is making any money in the process through the P2P networks, I don't believe it's stealing. It still doesn't mean that I won't buy the CD's either. I also feel that I have the right to do whatever I want with the CD's I buy, as long as I don't make any money off of them of course. ;)

[Tootlez]

Well I don't see anything wrong with it! I burn PS games and them play them. My mom burned CD's for my brother.

I think that it's cheaper to do that! It's free to download and the only thing that you have to buy is the blank CD's.

You're right the sales aren't going down. Although most of the CD's they have at the store can be put on the discount rack so they have more room for the newer CD's.

[DR. BELCH]

As long as you don't sell the tapes/CD's for profit, no laws are violated. This from a man who also once taped songs off the radio (and I found if you leave the tape rolling after the song ends, you get some great deejay blather that is both rare and hilarious).