The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes "Ultron-5" Talkback (Spoilers)

[James Harvey]

Discuss this all-new episode of The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes debuting today at 10:00am (ET) on Disney XD!

http://marvel.toonzone.net/avengersemh/talkback.jpg (http://marvel.toonzone.net/avengersemh/)
Click here (http://marvel.toonzone.net/avengersemh/reviews/22ultron5/) for more details on this episode!The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes "Ultron 5"
Episode Premiere Date - May 29th, 2011
Ant-Man has had enough of the violence and fighting and endless confrontations with Super-Villains. He wants to find a better way to bring peace and order to the world… after all, that’s why he created Ultron. But something has gone terribly wrong. And now Ultron may well be the very last villain the Avengers face. Because even an Avenger can fall.

Comments?

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[Medinnus]

Here is an episode that many of us have been waiting for all season - the point where the surviving Ultron robot ceases to be helpful and becomes the maniacal threat to Humanity we all know and love. Ultron's philosophy is that humanity can only achieve peace through the grave, so that's what he intends to do... destroy all humanity.

The dialogue and the personal interaction reaches one of its highest marks to date here. Excellent writing and good fight choreography are the hallmark of this season.

In other notes:



WTH was Hank thinking, getting between the Avengers and the bad guys? There was no way that was going to end well; I mean, I get it from a story perspective, but as the scaly malefactors had hostages, I think it was very irresponsible. Once the hostages are safe and the Serpent Society is in custody, THEN continue "Super Villain Therapy 101".
I like the move where Wasp at Wasp-size starts the kick, and grows, delivering it as a full-sized woman!
Yay! I love it when we get to see backrev Iron Man armor! This time, Stark uses his original Mark I
As they used to say in the old Bond movies: "Ultron-5 has been defeated. But Ultron will be back in 'The Ultron Imperative'" (the next episode).
As a major fan of the Serpent Society in general, and Diamondback and Black Mamba in particular, I was probably disproportionately pleased to see the organization introduced; it was a brilliant concept (a corporate-based criminal organization, providing legal services, escape services, contract screening, marketing, etc) as created by Mark Guenwald (RIP).
Anaconda, King Cobra, and Death Adder pretty much look like the MU 616 versions, but Bushmaster and Rattler are given visual makeovers, and made to be quite inhuman. I am curious as to what prompted the redesigns, myself.
Bushmaster seems to be a combination of his regular MU self (the serpentine body and fist-fangs), combined with Cottonmouth (the ability to distend one's jaws large enough to swallow one's enemy). I wonder if this means we don't get to see Cottonmouth, as he's now been made rather redundant.
Anaconda seems to be stronger than the MU version.
Other Serpents I'd like to see down the road:

http://www.medinnus.com/winghead/images/microheroes/black_mamba_01.gif
Black Mamba

http://www.medinnus.com/winghead/images/microheroes/diamondback_02.gif
Diamondback

http://www.medinnus.com/winghead/images/microheroes/asp_01.gif
Asp

[ktk]

Wow, what an episode!

-Sure didn't expect that Thor story twist.

-Loved to see Wasp grow giant sized.

-It really feels like a season's full of story arc's is about to culminate.

[babykhris]

Medinnus
Guess it's time to update the escape list.

[Avengers]

Yes.....just yes

[Azrayel]

Fantastic episode. I had no idea Wasp could become a giant.

What Realm did Thor go to? Is it the Realm of the dead?

[Capt. Speedbump]

As a major fan of the Serpent Society in general, and Diamondback and Black Mamba in particular, I was probably disproportionately pleased to see the organization introduced; it was a brilliant concept (a corporate-based criminal organization, providing legal services, escape services, contract screening, marketing, etc) as created by Mark Guenwald (RIP).


I can see where you're coming from here. For purposes of this episode, it might have been better to just call them "the Serpent Squad" as opposed to the Society.

Well, since the group managed to get away (though I'm not sure if Death Adder was captured), maybe we'll see more of them in Season 2?

[Munkiman]

WTH was Hank thinking, getting between the Avengers and the bad guys? There was no way that was going to end well; I mean, I get it from a story perspective, but as the scaly malefactors had hostages, I think it was very irresponsible. Once the hostages are safe and the Serpent Society is in custody, THEN continue "Super Villain Therapy 101".
The way I see it, they had just arrived on the scene. Tony saw hostages being held by snake guys and his first thought was "sarcastic quip, then beat them up." Nobody but Hank wanted to even try reasoning with them. What you're saying is that Hank should have let the violence happen and then reasoned with the Serpent Society once they were in a prison hospital, but to Hank allowing any violence at all would have been a failure. It's not just about rehabilitating the villains in prison, it's about protecting them, too. And I have to say that I could really see his point when Thor and Jan were saying things like "These animals respond only to violence" and "They're supervillains, you just hit 'em." Though of course by the end Hank had to compromise on that and admit that sometimes you can't talk things out, as with Ultron.

Some great character moments in this episode - I really liked when Tony pointed out that Hank was only ever an Avenger because of her.

And when Thor starts to slip into his old "Damned technology" ways, Tony calls him on it, and he realizes what he was doing and apologizes? That was awesome, I love seeing evidence that the character development from "Casket of Ancient Winters" had worked.

The Hulk continues to unnecessarily destroy parts of the Mansion! Always funny. :D

Ultron hacking Iron Man and the Quinjets was pretty awesome. Iron Man vs. Thor was an epic fight, as was Hulk being shot into space (shades of Planet Hulk?).

Here's Jane Foster, great to see a non-superhero member of the cast.

I really like how Ultron couldn't hurt Jan. Hank gave it the ability to attack the Avengers, but he trusts Jan 100%, more than anyone else on Earth.

Ultron's animation was really interesting. The little humanizing touches as he became more autonomous, like when he leaned forward in his throne. The Hamlet-esque moment of his holding another Ultron's head, as though contemplating the meaning of being a mass-produced machine... very nice touch.

I realized that Thor had a lot of screentime in this episode, which really made his sudden absence hit home, though of course it was obvious that he wasn't really dead. No body. Should have left a clone skeleton, like Batman!

Also cool how Hank didn't just wake up on his own, Tony had to use a defibrillator - not the sort of thing

Small complaint: Wasp going big should have achieved more.

Mark I armor was all kinds of awesome.

"Tear him apart and rip it out." Hank doesn't do this violence thing halfway once he gets into it!

Also, note that when Hank says "This is all my fault," the Avengers look sad but nobody disagrees with him.

My first thought was that Thor was in Valhalla or something. Not sure where he is, but it'll definitely be interesting to see him get out of it. How long will he be gone?

[RoyalRubble]

Well, it finally happened. There have been many hints surrounding Ultron's uprising throughout the series so far, as well as some comments from others mentioning how creepy he is, and here it all comes together. Interesting to note that Ultron's plan also involved causing incidents throughout the city just to keep the Avengers busy. I didn't expect that Radioactive Man's attack on Stark Tower (see "The Casket of Ancient Winters", where Ultron is also shown fighting alongside Ant-Man) was also thanks to Ultron. Although not explained in full, as the distractions from this episode, it adds a little more continuity to the series, and the previously mentioned attack doesn't seem as random anymore. This episode, Ultron sends fake messages to the Serpent Society and to the Red Ghost and his Super Apes, once again to keep the heroes out of his way. When everything is ready, he strikes. Ultron has evolved beyond his original programming and decided to take matters into his own hands, and create a perfect and peaceful world, even if it means destroying the Avengers and the rest of humanity, because their logic is flawed. Tom Kane did a great job voicing Ultron (reprising his role from the "Next Avengers" animated movie). I found this version of Ultron to be the best one animated yet, much better than his previous few appearances in past cartoons.

Next to Ultron, his creator, Ant-Man is the character who gets to be in the spotlight this episode. He has mentioned several times throughout the series that he's a scientist, and tries to be a pacifist first, without having to resort to violence. After trying to convince the Serpent Society to surrender and fails, causing Hawkeye to be injured in the process, he decides to quit the team. Notice how he only starts fighting the Serpent Society when he sees Wasp is in danger. That, and the fact that Ultron's programming won't allow him to hurt Janet is just another callback to the episode "459". The reasons for him deciding to quit the team become even more painful until the episode ends, as Ultron was his creation. The way all the characters interacted during this episode was awesome. Not only Ant-Man and Wasp with the rest of the team, but also a great moment between Iron Man and Thor. Following the events of "The Casket of Ancient Winters", Thor not being able to return to Asgard, asks Tony for help, believing technology might be able to solve the problem. It will be interesting to see if they succeed with this in future episodes. Another neat little moment is when Thor mentions that Hawkeye possesses the spirit of a true warrior, and we get another brief appearance of Jane Foster (too bad she didn't share any scenes with Thor, this time).

There is a lot of action during this episode; from the start we get a big battle between the Avengers and the Serpent Society. Later we see the Avengers trying to survive and escape Ultron's traps inside the mansion. Ultron manages to take control over Tony's armor and attacks Thor, sends the Hulk aboard one of the Quinjets flying into space and the other Quinjet to attack Black Panther, and traps Hawkeye and Captain America inside their training room. And if that wasn't enough, once the Avengers reunite, Ultron proves to be a match for them during their fight. Thor is the first one to fall in battle, as Ultron disintegrates him, leaving only his hammer behind. It was great to see Tony use his old-school armor to fight Ultron; it was also a smart move - since the armor doesn't have any computers, Ultron won't be able to take control of it. Once Hulk is back from outer space he rips Ultron apart and Ant-Man removes the energy core, defeating the robot. All the fight scenes were great, and pretty much every Avenger got a chance to shine. And I didn't expect Wasp to grow giant-size (to be honest I didn't even know she could); that was awesome.

It's pretty obvious this wasn't the end for neither Ultron or Thor, though. Thor awakening on a field somewhere with the Enchantress next to him; as good as that sounds :D, I wonder if it's also part of Loki's plans. And Ultron's line at the end of the episode, "Upload complete", was a perfect way to end the episode. We know he'll be back soon, just not sure how.

[King_of_doom]

I seriously waited to see this episode! Since the micro-episodes we already had alot of hints of Ultron and how it was rebeling when he shows up until the Kang story arc where we see how he's becoming a threat to all mankind and like RoyalRubble mention i didn't expect Ultron sending those villains to distract the Avengers but seriously in a cool way, showing that he really means on making the world in peace by destroying all life on earth.

I do admit that Hank means well when he tries to go for a more peaceful matter instead of fighting but what can he do when the villains are ready for anything even killing the ones who stand in their way. Nice to see Thor getting some screentime since it shows that in the last episodes of season 1 will focus on him and Loki. Like that Wasp can turn into a giant but we see that she doesn't use that transformation often since it does drain her energy but still cool how she clobbers Ultron and the Hulk ripping ultron in half that was awesome, kinda sad to see Hank blaming this on himself especially thinking that he killed Thor but at the end whoa, Ultron is not done yet 0.0

[Crash]

Ha! So long, hippie! Don't let Jarvis slam the door on you on your way out!

...Okay, I'm kidding about that. Mostly. The writers played out that scene pretty well. The chewing-out of Hank was well-deserved, but got cut short before it got too vindictive. And the very subdued way that Hank reacted was very fitting for a guy who didn't want to be there.

Its also rather interesting that this time the genocidal robot came from the mind of a pacifist. That's just delightfully un-pc.

Speaking of Hank, later in the episode, Tony woke him from a coma with a defibulator....Why? Defibulators are supposed to jump start a heart that has stopped beating. If Hank's heart needed restarting, then he wasn't 'in a coma' so much as he was simply 'dead'. ...I suppose maybe Tony was just really pissed at Hank (because of that 'inventing a killer robot' thing) and he thought that sending a million volts through his unconcious form would be more satisfying than beating him with a baseball bat...

There were some moments of true animated greatness here! Someone else mentioned Jan's size-changing spin kick. Equally brutal looking was Hank's size-changing super punch. And then as Society was running away, the snake that had attacked Hawkeye popped out of the sewer, only to be immediately dragged back down by Hawkeye. Once again proving how undeniably awesome Hawkeye is!

I laughed more than I should have at Thor's comment about fighting monkeys. 'Course, when he said that, I was still laughing at Iron Man's reaction to Hulk kicking in his door...

So, Janet has her Giant Girl powers in this show? At least to a limited degree. ...Though since Ultron didin't know about that, does that mean Jan hid that power from Hank...? Whatever. I did like how they implied that body-changing powers can affect an untrained body. Those ill-effects were one of the few good ideas from the 'Ultimate Avengers II' movie.

...In closing, I wonder if Ultron did anything to the Negative Zone prison. Since he was the guard there and all. I think maybe all those Ultrons were used up in the fight with Kang, but still....

[Medinnus]

What you're saying is that Hank should have let the violence happen and then reasoned with the Serpent Society once they were in a prison hospital, but to Hank allowing any violence at all would have been a failure.


When there are hostages taken, you're absolutely right that would be my priority - lay them out hard and fast. If they want to talk after? Alrighty. If they want to release the hostages and then talk, fine.

Jan has always had that potential for "Giant Girl", she just didn't use it until relatively recently (was it during the Geoff Johns run on the Avengers?). In the young adult line called "Marvel Adventures" she's basically Giant Girl (or whatever they call her) full-time.

[Gold Guy]

The best episode in a while. Ultron made his move, and what a move it was. He was single-handedly beating all the Avengers, destroying their mansion, and getting rid of their weapons, armor, planes, and wahtnot. I didn't expect Thor to get zapped away, and I expected Enchantress to find him even less. And the ending...oh boy, next week is gonna be good.

Hank annoyed me though. That was not the time to play nice at all.

[NBM05]

When there are hostages taken, you're absolutely right that would be my priority - lay them out hard and fast. If they want to talk after? Alrighty. If they want to release the hostages and then talk, fine.

Jan has always had that potential for "Giant Girl", she just didn't use it until relatively recently (was it during the Geoff Johns run on the Avengers?). In the young adult line called "Marvel Adventures" she's basically Giant Girl (or whatever they call her) full-time.

And if the hostages are hurt during the battle? What if the battle could be avoided through talk and the hostages could just walk away, but instead the heroes go straight to violence and the villains start by kiling their hostages? Obviously that's why villains take hostages in the first place--to imply they'll hurt the hostages if the heroes try anything. Obviously I love action, but Hank's hope (based on intimate knowledge of the villains in question) was not illogical.

Overall, I loved the episode and love the show. The action and fight choreography has gotten really good, I love that the characters continue to develop, and I absolutely love the ongoing, building story lines.

Great episode, great show. Definitely edging toward the top of my all time favorites list (and based on the anticipation I feel for each new episode, it may be there already).

[Medinnus]

Ha! So long, hippie! Don't let Jarvis slam the door on you on your way out!

That would SO work better with the real Jarvis, and not the AI! :D

[AdamYJ]

I liked this episode a lot. Not as much for Ultron as for the show's continuing treatment of Hank Pym.

Oh sure, Ultron is great and all. Ultron is . . . Ultron.

But as someone who's read the comics for a long while, Hank Pym tends to be a character that's hard to get a handle on because of how much that's been done to him. However, they really get Hank in some ways and added a twist that adds a lot to it. When Ant-Man and the Wasp started in the comics, they were kind of a riff on Nick and Nora Charles. A sort of capable but less than adventurous boyfriend/husband who would get pushed and weedled into adventures by his young, adventure-seeking girlfriend/wife. So, he kind of had the reluctant hero thing going from the start. Years later, after many twists and turns in terms of characterization, Hank suffered a nervous breakdown and had to quit. It was stated numerous times during that period that Hank was probably one of the people least comfortable in the role of superhero. All that is kind of reflected in this version of Hank. However, they go one step further and give a rationale for it: he doesn't believe in violence. It also provides an interesting contrast to Hank Pym's reputation for using violence when he shouldn't (there was one infamous scene when he was having his breakdown where he took a swing at Jan). It leaves me wondering if maybe Hank's had some bad experiences regarding violence in the past that may have led to his current point of view.

[Munkiman]

You know, I can't help feeling that Cap should have taken some of the responsibility for Ultron, since he (and Jan) convinced Hank to reprogram Ultron for violence. Iron Man, too, since it's been mentioned that the heavier weapons, like the one that seemed to take out Thor, were installed by Tony.

[Medinnus]

You know, I can't help feeling that Cap should have taken some of the responsibility for Ultron, since he (and Jan) convinced Hank to reprogram Ultron for violence. Iron Man, too, since it's been mentioned that the heavier weapons, like the one that seemed to take out Thor, were installed by Tony.

Yeah, you've pretty much hit one of the "hand-wavey suspend your disbelief" parts of the super-hero mythos... if there are one mecha, there can be a ton.

For example, after the war why not roll back the Ultron programming for the pacifist version, just in case?

[Avengers]

You know, I can't help feeling that Cap should have taken some of the responsibility for Ultron, since he (and Jan) convinced Hank to reprogram Ultron for violence. Iron Man, too, since it's been mentioned that the heavier weapons, like the one that seemed to take out Thor, were installed by Tony.

I think it refers more to the fact that Ultron has Hank's mind and desires, so he sees it as his fault because he effectively did it himself

[Star Outlaw]

I liked this episode a lot. Not as much for Ultron as for the show's continuing treatment of Hank Pym.

Oh sure, Ultron is great and all. Ultron is . . . Ultron.

But as someone who's read the comics for a long while, Hank Pym tends to be a character that's hard to get a handle on because of how much that's been done to him. However, they really get Hank in some ways and added a twist that adds a lot to it. When Ant-Man and the Wasp started in the comics, they were kind of a riff on Nick and Nora Charles. A sort of capable but less than adventurous boyfriend/husband who would get pushed and weedled into adventures by his young, adventure-seeking girlfriend/wife. So, he kind of had the reluctant hero thing going from the start. Years later, after many twists and turns in terms of characterization, Hank suffered a nervous breakdown and had to quit. It was stated numerous times during that period that Hank was probably one of the people least comfortable in the role of superhero. All that is kind of reflected in this version of Hank. However, they go one step further and give a rationale for it: he doesn't believe in violence. It also provides an interesting contrast to Hank Pym's reputation for using violence when he shouldn't (there was one infamous scene when he was having his breakdown where he took a swing at Jan). It leaves me wondering if maybe Hank's had some bad experiences regarding violence in the past that may have led to his current point of view.

I agree with you. I never much cared for Hank Pym before this show because I never got who he was supposed to be. I hope future writers look to this show when they want to get a good idea of how to write him.

For a while now I've been speculating on what sort of upbringing Hank would have to become such a pacifist. If I had to guess, Hank seems like the kind of kid that had few friends and spent most of his child hood reading books and playing with his ant farm.

I keep thinking that his pacifist views are the result of being victimized by something, like bullying or abusive parents. And it's not just Hank's pacifism, but also how he seems much less social than the others, except for Hulk and T'Chala of course. He wants to help people, but at the same time isn't comfortable being around them. He would rather spend time with his insects or his robots, who can't judge him like people do. Maybe the reason he likes Janet so much is because he wishes he could be as outgoing as she is, and maybe he likes the way she gets him out of the lab sometimes.

I believe that as Hank starts to lose faith in his ability to change the world for the better he's going to be a lot more prone to anger and violence, and that will probably lead to him becoming Yellowjacket for a while.

[Aquaman OS]

As far as Jan turning giant out of the blue, people have been throwing around the idea that her powers are actually innate and not given by Hank as she claimed they were. (In other words, she's a mutant like her Ultimate version)

Note that while Hank needs to adjust his belt to change size, Jan seems to activate her powers at will, especially made clear here where's she's clearly concentrating and her eyes glow before she goes giant.

[Medinnus]

As far as Jan turning giant out of the blue, people have been throwing around the idea that her powers are actually innate and not given by Hank as she claimed they were. (In other words, she's a mutant like her Ultimate version)

It may be so, but if so it directly contradicts the material about the series put out by Marvel and Disney on their web site. Of course, that doesn't really mean much, but Occam's Razor is what it is...


Note that while Hank needs to adjust his belt to change size, Jan seems to activate her powers at will, especially made clear here where's she's clearly concentrating and her eyes glow before she goes giant.

That has always been the case, just as it was always the case that Pym planted the subcutaneous wings and did the whole bio-energy energy blast thing (although I seem to recall that came later, circa late 1970's for her (at least, in MU 616).

[Star Outlaw]

It may be so, but if so it directly contradicts the material about the series put out by Marvel and Disney on their web site. Of course, that doesn't really mean much, but Occam's Razor is what it is...

Actually, I read Wasp's bio on the Disney XD page, and even there it seems to hint that the origin of Wasp's powers isn't what it appears to be.

We've had her dodge the question of her powers when Cap asked her, plus there's the fact she doesn't use a device and how when she goes giant it takes concentration. That, plus whenever mutants are hinted at, she's usually around. I think it's safe to say that Hank and Janet are lying and saying that he gave her her powers so no one will suspect she's a mutant. This would be a very important secret for her because of all the mutant hate and the fact that Janet has a reputation to keep.

Also, consider this; Hank wants Janet to be safe and he doesn't like her getting into dangerous fights, so why would he have given Janet her powers? I don't think he would have, which is why I think she was born with them.

[macattack]

I have one problem with this episode: this episode has the audacity to do the same stupid thing the 90's Hulk cartoon did: have the Hulk enter the atmosphere. That's asking way too much out of my suspension of disbelief, people.

Other than that, Ultron is epic. He makes a good villain if written correctly and he's written pretty well here. He's a terminating machine operating to a flawed protocol. The ultimate malfunction robot, HAL on steroids. And there was some spectacular action that resulted from Ultron's scheming. It was a nice touch that Ultron was responsible for Radioactive Man's rampage in the previous episode too.

It looked like there were some cuts, though, a couple of transitions looked awkward to me. Could anyone who's seen the Australian airings confirm whether or not there were edits to the content?

[Medinnus]

I'm just curious as to the fate of the Red Ghost and his pets... :)

[jph139]

I'm surprised everyone here is so down on Hank for trying to stop the fight at the start - when there are hostages involved, that is THE time you need to negotiate. I mean, I see Iron Man pointing a rocket at a guy holding an innocent bystander, I see a problem with their mode of operation.

Not a bad episode overall; a step down from last week's hectic action but the more surgical Ultron makes for a great change of pace. I didn't expect Thor to actually die... and I'm not sure if he did. I'm sure he'll be back to take down Loki by the end of the season, though. Hey, maybe this whole thing was Loki's idea...

Also, Jan going huge was a surprise. It seemed pretty exhausted, so I doubt she'll be doing it too often, but cool to see anyways.

[NBM05]

I'm surprised everyone here is so down on Hank for trying to stop the fight at the start - when there are hostages involved, that is THE time you need to negotiate. I mean, I see Iron Man pointing a rocket at a guy holding an innocent bystander, I see a problem with their mode of operation.
.

Exactly. That was my point in my previous post as well. That and that I really enjoyed the episode and love the show overall. Ongoing stoylines and character development for the win.

[Avengers]

I actually agree when hostages are in the situation you talk it out and try and get them to either drop the hostages or distract them till someone can get a good shot in, Hank was trying to get them to release the hostages, if anything he was the only one making the good decision

[HEATXZ]

Great episode :anime:
I like the scene with the Serpent Society

[Mr. Hypocrite]

Remember Hulk's comment to Hank about how he was "Doing it wrong" in regards to Hank's inability to enjoy violence.

Back in the Hail Hydra Thread, I said this:


I've seen the episodes that follow this, and that joke is as Tvtropes would say Harsher in Hindsight.

Well, here's the reason why. Hulk was right. Hank was doing it wrong, and even he realized it. Perhaps, due to the unique opportunities it presented (he did get to study Vibranium) and do the genuine good it caused (he acknowledged it himself)......

No, screw that, there's only one real reason. It's pretty much spelled out. He was there because of Janet. There were some other good points, but that was the core, and eventually Hank had to choose between his belief system, and his love for Janet.

Things will get interesting in the coming episodes. Indeed they will.

[redlion]

Great episode. The overall pacing of the story was very good and the action was intense. Loved seeing the serpent society (squad) make an appearance. I've always liked it whenever the Avengers had to go up against other villianous superteams. I hope in the future whether it's next season or possibly a third season, we see the Squadron Supreme or Squadron Sinister.

Ultron!! This show continues to impress with it's portrayal of some of the MU's greatest villians. I haven't watched one episode yet where I did not like the baddie. I'm glad that each bad guy has distinct motivations beyond just being the typical evil person. I love the fact that Ultron is just carrying out Hank's pacifist philosophy (to achieve peace) to it's most extreme conclusion filtered with cold robotic logic that humanity is indeed flawed and we are the problem. It will be interesting to see the direction they take with Hank and Ultron's relationship in season 2.

Looking forward to the second part of this fantastic two parter.

[TheVileOne]

Great to see Ultron back in animation voiced by Tom Kane. Ultron in Next Avengers was really a classic adaptation of Ultron but they re-tinkered his origin of being created by Stark. Here Ultron is really Hank's creation and proverbial "father." Though Stark did have a hand in Ultron in early stages as earlier references earlier on.

Ultron has always been a favorite villain so it is awesome to see classic Avengers vs. Ultron adapted to animation. I only hope we can see a live action Ultron done at some point.

[Medinnus]

Great to see Ultron back in animation voiced by Tom Kane. Ultron in Next Avengers was really a classic adaptation of Ultron but they re-tinkered his origin of being created by Stark. Here Ultron is really Hank's creation and proverbial "father." Though Stark did have a hand in Ultron in early stages as earlier references earlier on.

Yeah, they've pretty much glossed over the "Stark Involvement", for the most part.

I am kind of curious though; given that Wonder Man never had his brain-waves recorded (having gone from human to ionic in one fell swoop), whose brain waves are they going to base the Vision's mind?


Ultron has always been a favorite villain so it is awesome to see classic Avengers vs. Ultron adapted to animation. I only hope we can see a live action Ultron done at some point.

Agreed in all particulars. I am especially curious to see if Ultron follows anything resembling his MU616 development path.

[TheVileOne]

No idea. Just keep in mind, Wonder Man has gone from ionic to a solid body before. So it's not like they couldn't figure out a way to manipulate the story as they saw fit to have Vision's mental imprint be based on Vision. But a large part of the Vision story is that Vision is his own person and personality. He's more than just a programmed android. And in many ways he's the anti-Ultron and also the heart and soul of the Avengers.

[redlion]

The interesting thing about the show's version of Ultron is that he lacks the irrational hatred of Hank in particular nor does he see Hank as his "father" at this point in his development. The show's version of Ultron wants to destroy humanity not out of malice or contempt but out of a warped sense of benevolence in order to bring about a state of global peace.

Now it will be interesting to see whether or not ln the future Ultron actually develops those emotions of hatred for Hank, the Avengers and the rest of humanity. The makings for that aspect of Ultron's personality is already there seeing as how he's imprinted with Hank's brain pattern. Wonder if he does acquire an Oedipus complex that sparks the motivation for him to create the Vision in season 2? There is so much potential for good stories using Ultron no matter which direction the writing team decides to go.

[ktk]

Jan has always had that potential for "Giant Girl", she just didn't use it until relatively recently (was it during the Geoff Johns run on the Avengers?). In the young adult line called "Marvel Adventures" she's basically Giant Girl (or whatever they call her) full-time.

Speaking of this, you know who I'd love to see?

Stature! (Cassie Lang)
She quickly turned into one of my favorite characters. Of all the "updated/remodeled" characters we've seen over the years, she turned into one of the most interesting, because she's got a compelling yet simple backstory.

Heck, I would totally settle for her just showing up as a non-powered civilian if her dad shows up next season.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Great episode. I just love how this show keeps in mind character's personalities and motivations. We've seen Hank as a reluctant hero, but his pacifism finally comes into play with the Serpent Society. Ultron's made even creepier based on all that.

And again, Thor's shown character development when he's humble enough to ask for Tony's help. Too bad he seems to have found another way back to Asgard.

As for Jan, they've had her grow in comics here and there, but it's always caused a strain on her. It'd be interesting to follow this up, provided Jan doesn't lose her optimism and positive take on heroing.


I realized that Thor had a lot of screentime in this episode, which really made his sudden absence hit home, though of course it was obvious that he wasn't really dead. No body. Should have left a clone skeleton, like Batman!

I assumed there was a body and all they could show was his hammer falling. And at the end, his spirit was in Valhalla...then again, he could've just been teleported or something. I'd like to see Jane's reaction to all this since they didn't share any screentime here.


I'm just curious as to the fate of the Red Ghost and his pets... :)

Hulk saved stupid apes. Another Fantastic Four reference...why tease us so often and not give us a full-on guest spot yet?


I hope in the future whether it's next season or possibly a third season, we see the Squadron Supreme or Squadron Sinister.

With the same voice cast from Super Hero Squad :D

[Choppasmith]

Man this was a great episode! They sure paced it well with Ultron becoming creepier and creepier. I like the fact that he sounds like an evil robot, rather than "Dr. Claw" from UTS. I dunno, I'm not too familiar with the old comics, I just much prefer hearing Tom Kane's voice in this. His UTS voice and dialog just seemed silly.


With the same voice cast from Super Hero Squad

Yes! Though, if it were "serious" I'd put in Kevin Conroy and Tim Daly (or George Newburn) at the very least.

[King_of_doom]

Man this was a great episode! They sure paced it well with Ultron becoming creepier and creepier. I like the fact that he sounds like an evil robot, rather than "Dr. Claw" from UTS. I dunno, I'm not too familiar with the old comics, I just much prefer hearing Tom Kane's voice in this. His UTS voice and dialog just seemed silly.

Tom Kane was already prepared to voice Ultron again since he worked in the Next Avengers. What i like is that Ultron was first starting with Wally Wingert's voice then in the Kang arc Tom Kane started with a normal voice, sounded alot like Corey Burton when he voiced Brainiac and finally he does his official voice of Ultron which it's really awesome.

[TheVileOne]

I was honestly a little surprised since I knew Tom Kane was playing Ultron and we first saw Ultron in the prison as the robot drone guards and they sounded like Wally Wingert's Hank voice. Which makes sense since Hank created them and he hadn't yet become a self-aware evil robot. Though I did enjoy hearing when Ultron did transition from the rather harmless version to the malevolent being bent on humanity's destruction.

[GWOtaku]

I have one problem with this episode: this episode has the audacity to do the same stupid thing the 90's Hulk cartoon did: have the Hulk enter the atmosphere. That's asking way too much out of my suspension of disbelief, people.

Oh, that's not the craziest part. Hulk not only survives, he either conveniently manages to land at the Avengers base or the NYC area or he gets there in a massive hurry despite potentially returning to Earth lord knows how many miles away since he was coming in from outer space! Calling this a lucky break for our heroes would be a massive understatement. ;)

But hey, it's still pretty cool and the entire incident was very well executed. Bonus points for doing real damage to the team. Cap hurt, Iron Man's armor screwed up, Hank demoralized...and Thor too I guess, though I got the impression that this was really all Enchantress and Thor would not have been killed by the attack normally. Otherwise there's no way Hank should have been able to survive the same beam.

As usual, the show nails the ending. Great cliffhanger for next time.

[ktk]

I've got no problem with re-entry.

If space shuttles and capsule have skin strong enough to withstand the heat, then so should the Hulk.

Now, your point about where he lands after re-entry, well that's a good one. Though Spider-Man always seems to be swinging by right when a robbery is taking place. Most superhero comics through the years have required folks to suspend their sense of locational disbelief. All those fights Hulk got into over the past 50 years wouldn't have been quite so entertaining if Squirrel Girl had stumbled onto those villains instead.

[Medinnus]

All those fights Hulk got into over the past 50 years wouldn't have been quite so entertaining if Squirrel Girl had stumbled onto those villains instead.


She did manage to defeat Dr. Doom.... :D

[Crash]

On further reflection, did anyone else notice how Ultron spent a moment staring intently at Cap's shield? Zooming in to see the individual metal crystals? That can't bode well for future appearances....

[90'sCartoonMan]

On further reflection, did anyone else notice how Ultron spent a moment staring intently at Cap's shield? Zooming in to see the individual metal crystals? That can't bode well for future appearances....

Yep, we'll be seeing an Ultron in a tasty vibranium-encased shell. Too bad Cap can't bust out the same move Thor did to the Absorbing Man when he stole his otherworldly metal.

[suss2it]

On further reflection, did anyone else notice how Ultron spent a moment staring intently at Cap's shield? Zooming in to see the individual metal crystals? That can't bode well for future appearances....

Since Cap will be sporting a virtual shield in season 2, similar to the one Steve Rogers uses in the 616 universe and what James used in Next Avengers, I bet Ultron either weakened his shield and someone else is going to break it, or Ultron's gonna break it himself in battle with Cap.

[Avengers]

Since Cap will be sporting a virtual shield in season 2, similar to the one Steve Rogers uses in the 616 universe and what James used in Next Avengers, I bet Ultron either weakened his shield and someone else is going to break it, or Ultron's gonna break it himself in battle with Cap.

To be honest I thought he was going to build a new Ultron body out of that material and when they smash him again Tony would make caps shield out of Ulltrons hull.

[ShadowStar]

Anyone else think Hank Pym acts a bit like JLU's Dove? :p

[Venom Melendez]

I have one problem with this episode: this episode has the audacity to do the same stupid thing the 90's Hulk cartoon did: have the Hulk enter the atmosphere. That's asking way too much out of my suspension of disbelief, people.



Then you've must not have read that many Hulk books, since Hulk has been known to able to do(And survive the vacuum of space) that for years.It's not just the 90's toon that did that.
It doesn't require suspension of disbelief, because he's the Hulk.

[dmxx116]

Ant-Man, tired of the unending violence, quits the team while Ultron turns on The Avengers in his attempts to bring his brand of peace:

http://x.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/d/70/4e4eff5e9709e.jpg

http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1983/the_avengers_emh_2010_season_1-_ep_22