Chris Yost's Hawkeye bias on A:EMH

[Taskmaster]

Don't get me wrong I'm a big Hawkeye fan, one of my top 5 in Marvel easily. It's become very obvious to me Chris Yost (I read Yost admit in another website interview) has an extreme bias towards Hawkeye. In every episode he's featured he gets these extended action sequences that the other characters don't get (Cap, Iron man, Black Panther).

I love Clint getting his due but Hawkeye seems to be doing things waaaayyyyyy above his physical prowess or even skill set AND getting much longer sequences in doing so.. Hawkeye's a great athlete and fighter but he's no Cap. Yost greenlights Hawkeye doing these 50 ft jumps from a flat footed position with almost this anti-gravity gliding shooting like 40 arrows before he hits the ground.

My BS radar went up officially during "Gamma World" when Hawkeye seems to be out running Black Panther, Iron man, and worst of all CAP on a motorcycle on a roof top. And why someone like Cap who has mastered roof top acrobatics as well as being about 3x faster, stronger, athletic than any version of Hawkeye would even use his bike in the situation was even more off putting to me.

Watching that ep and "Widow's Sting" you really get the full Hawkeye biased treatment in it's full glory and to some extent "Masters of Evil". They've gotten so out of control with Hawkeye bias that now it's become this recurring theme how he has to save the whole team every mission from certain doom and brag about it. Black Panther has these biases as well but that's for another thread and not quite as bad.

[Rick Jones]

Hawkeye definitely gets a lot of cool moments on the show but it's always a team effort when it comes down to it, even during an episode like Widow's Sting where he needed Cap and BP to pull his bacon out of the fire..

The creation of the show is also a team effort, with various writers, animators and producers sharing ideas, so I wouldn't say it's necessarily fair to single out Chris Yost for any perceived Hawkeye bias.

As a lifelong Hawkeye fan, I love his portrayal on this show. He's never had a strong showing in animation and this show has managed to make him look cool to Avengers newcomers (though the purple costume might take some getting used to).

[Medinnus]

...so I wouldn't say it's necessarily fair to say that Chris Yost has a Hawkeye bias.

...and even if he did, it would be really hard for a head writer to translate into policy without the collusion of the entire writing team and Producer Joshua Fine...

[Sockie]

Yost didn't even write any of the episodes that you mentioned aside from "Masters of Evil", Taskmaster, so it seems kind of unfair to judge him as "biased" when other people wrote those.

[Medinnus]

Honestly, I've heard allegations of anti-Iron Man bias, anti-Thor bias, anti-Hulk bias, pro-Hulk bias, pro-Thor bias, pro-Hank bias, pro-Black Panther bias, and now, pro-Hawkeye bias.

The only pro-bias I haven't seen an accusation floated about it pro-Captain America bias. Ironically, that's the only one I'd like to see.... :)

[Barbossa]

Thank you Medinnus I agree with you 100% People will also complain about how the creators of the show don't get their favorite heroes

[Aquaman OS]

Hawkeye's only been on the team for a few eps. And one of those he didn't appear at all. That's hardly a bias.

If anyone they have a bias for, it's Wasp or Iron Man who've been in nearly every ep since the first one (IM was in all, Wasp has only been missing in one) and usually featured prominantly.

[King_of_doom]

I actually didn't see any problem watching Hawkeye every time he appears, i even insist having more with the team especially teaming up with the Hulk.

Sure he was fast when the Avengers where trying to capture him when he was not member but that was agility but when it comes to hand combat he's in trouble as we seen his fight with the Black Widow when he was out of arrows.

The good thing about the Avengers is that everyone has their moments on each episode and its cool how they are developing the Team more........I WANT NEW EPISODES!!!! lol sorry its been awhile since i haven't seen a new episode, of course i still enjoy watching the repeats especially from last sunday's marathon.

[RoyalRubble]

I don't really have a problem with the way Hawkeye has been portrayed on the show. I can say the same for the other characters as well. I think they have all been portrayed well so far.

[Taskmaster]

The only pro-bias I haven't seen an accusation floated about it pro-Captain America bias. Ironically, that's the only one I'd like to see.... :)

I'm with you entirely on Cap. To my eye really "Living Legend" is the only episode you see Steve as an "Ultimate-Human-Fighting-Machine" or "Super-Soldier". As a life long Cap fan having read just thousands of stories and if he's not the definitive leader like this continuity then he should be a full blown "Ultimate-Human-Fighting-Machine" in most scenarios.

I look at an episode like "Widow's Sting" as a wasted opportunity to really see Cap show off a bit and plow through Hydra goons. Here we have HORDES of Hydra and Cap's actual rogues in Baron Strucker and Madame Hydra running the show and really all we get is him crash the the roof (with BP) and a badly animated soft lil flip drop down blocking laser fire on Hawkeye. Then seguing into this cheap looking judo kick and shield toss.

After this is where it really got weird, Cap comes upon Baron friggin Strucker who has killed thousands on Cap's watch in WW2 (as well as supposedly heavily responsible for Bucky's apparent death which haunts Cap the most) and he just stops and stares at him all awestrucker and waits for Black Widow to whisk him away. As he gathers himself he FINALLY reacts and throws his shield only to be picked off by Grim Reaper. Steve's mindset should be that of deCAPitating Strucker on sight without flinching. Again there are STILL hundreds of Hydra all around them firing in all directions and you see no attempts to thin their herds.

The Grim Reaper fight is equally dissapointing and cheesy as they edit away from Cap to show Hawkeye again get ALL the fun and screen time. When they get to back to Cap he of course can't just fight Grim Reaper alone he has to be aided by Black Panther and ALL you see is his shield knock out Grim Reaper as Black Panther gets to have the fun in that scene. Then finally the only other thing Cap does is (w/ Black Panther) carry Hawkeye to safety.

Don't me started on "Meet Captain America" and all it's animation/action flaws but I guess I'll save that for another post/thread. Don't get me wrong I LOVE Cap's characterization and VO but his action quota needs to be amped big time and specifically the acrobatic Cap.

[Wonderwall]

So what you're basically saying is you want them to switch from a Hawkeye bias to a Captain America bias? Because that's what I'm getting from your posts. As for Cap and Panther's entrance, I think it's soft because they went for a slow motion action as him and Panther slow down while falling. Just curious but do you have any animation background?

[Medinnus]

So what you're basically saying is you want them to switch from a Hawkeye bias to a Captain America bias?

Yes! :)


Just curious but do you have any animation background?

Yes, I was the Director of Technology for Stan Lee Media (whose webisodes were essentially micro-episodes in Flash). Of course, I'm assuming you're actually asking Taskmaster... )

[Wonderwall]

Yes! :)

Fair enough as Cap is awesome:p


Yes, I was the Director of Technology for Stan Lee Media (whose webisodes were essentially micro-episodes in Flash). Of course, I'm assuming you're actually asking Taskmaster... )

I was asking Taskmaster but that's a cool bit of info about yourself I was not aware of so thanks for sharing.

[Taskmaster]

So what you're basically saying is you want them to switch from a Hawkeye bias to a Captain America bias? Because that's what I'm getting from your posts. As for Cap and Panther's entrance, I think it's soft because they went for a slow motion action as him and Panther slow down while falling. Just curious but do you have any animation background?

I'm not asking for a bias at all with Cap it's just that I want him to be an "Ultimate-Human-Fighting-Machine" or "Super-Soldier" like he was created to be. He's also billed as Marvel's PREMIERE hand to hand combatant according to all the heavyweight writers and editors. He has literally in his bio in big fat bold print since I was a little kid "He has blended judo, western boxing, kickboxing, and gymnastics into his own unique fighting style and is a master of multiple martial arts.". And if you can find examples in A: EMH of Cap portraying this fighting style than you have a eye sharper than I.

Outside of "Living Legend" and just a couple of scattered moments here and there Cap the UHFM or SS is almost no where to be found on this show and really just a guy with a shield pivoting, blocking, and ramming things. Since I've been a wee lad I've always thought writers that crutch on the shield when writing Cap just don't get him at all or his mastered martial arts/acrobatic skill set. Too much shield=boring Cap.

[Wonderwall]

I'm not asking for a bias at all with Cap it's just that I want him to be an "Ultimate-Human-Fighting-Machine" or "Super-Soldier" like he was created to be. He's also billed as Marvel's PREMIERE hand to hand combatant according to all the heavyweight writers and editors. He has literally in his bio in big fat bold print since I was a little kid "He has blended judo, western boxing, kickboxing, and gymnastics into his own unique fighting style and is a master of multiple martial arts.". And if you can find examples in A: EMH of Cap portraying this fighting style than you have a eye sharper than I.

If you can find any examples of that in the comic itself in the comics themselves I think that be worth something. And don't misunderstand me I'm not saying he doesn't do cool things while fighting but it's usually "superhero fighting" seeing as comic guys probably don't know how to fight aside from knowing what a punch, throw, and kick looks like:p


Outside of "Living Legend" and just a couple of scattered moments here and there Cap the UHFM or SS is almost no where to be found on this show and really just a guy with a shield pivoting, blocking, and ramming things. Since I've been a wee lad I've always thought writers that crutch on the shield when writing Cap just don't get him at all or his mastered martial arts/acrobatic skill set. Too much shield=boring Cap.

You can kind of say the same thing for everyone on the show not doing much more than basic laser shooting, hammer throwing, punching, etc. I think it's just being nitpicky but it also leads back to what does this have to do with Hawkeye? It just comes off to me as a bit of fanboyism as I haven't really seen Hawkeye do anything that much cooler than Cap.

[suss2it]

You can kind of say the same thing for everyone on the show not doing much more than basic laser shooting, hammer throwing, punching, etc. I think it's just being nitpicky but it also leads back to what does this have to do with Hawkeye? It just comes off to me as a bit of fanboyism as I haven't really seen Hawkeye do anything that much cooler than Cap.
Except out run him, while Cap was on a motorbike.

[Wonderwall]

Cap should have known that motorcycles are poor way to traverse by rooftop:p

[Taskmaster]

Cap should have known that motorcycles are poor way to traverse by rooftop:p

Right.....but moreover the WRITERS/PRODUCERS should know Cap knows this full well and THAT'S what bothers me and it shows in several episodes they have more blind spots than Matt Murdock with Cap. That's just a sloppy, unstealthy and cumbersome way to pursue someone in Hawkeye that Cap on FOOT has a 3x speed, agility, strength, and endurance advantage over. Plus the Cap I know and love takes PRIDE in doing things the old fashioned physical way, in fact he gets off on it.

A real "super soldier" shouldn't crutch on a shield and least of all a motorcycle in a completely impractical environment like a roof top.

[Medinnus]

Except out run him, while Cap was on a motorbike.

Dont blame Cap for the writer's mistake... :D

[Rick Jones]

I'm guessing that they had Cap chasing Hawkeye with his bike due to some sort of "cool" factor (Cap + Motorcycle = Always Awesome) and not because he actually needed it (nobody needs a motorcycle on a rooftop unless they're Evel Knievel). I'm pretty sure that these same complaints would exist if Cap was just using his feet yet still managed to trail behind Hawkeye, so maybe you just hated seeing Hawkeye outrun Cap?

[suss2it]

I'm guessing that they had Cap chasing Hawkeye with his bike due to some sort of "cool" factor (Cap + Motorcycle = Always Awesome) and not because he actually needed it (nobody needs a motorcycle on a rooftop unless they're Evel Knievel). I'm pretty sure that these same complaints would exist if Cap was just using his feet yet still managed to trail behind Hawkeye, so maybe you just hated seeing Hawkeye outrun Cap?I'm glad that's not what happened, that would've been much worse. Hawkeye who has no powers outrunning someone who's at the peak of human physical strength would've been far too embarrassing for Captain America and would've actually shown a Hawkeye bias.

[Taskmaster]

I'm guessing that they had Cap chasing Hawkeye with his bike due to some sort of "cool" factor (Cap + Motorcycle = Always Awesome) and not because he actually needed it (nobody needs a motorcycle on a rooftop unless they're Evel Knievel). I'm pretty sure that these same complaints would exist if Cap was just using his feet yet still managed to trail behind Hawkeye, so maybe you just hated seeing Hawkeye outrun Cap?

I think you're absolutely right in that it was all about some attempt at a Cap-cycle cool-factor by the producers/writers. The thinking that anytime a motorcycle graces the screen we the viewer are gonna be just so overwhelmed with coolness we won't notice the other details botched. But as I go around different msg boards it actually backfired as many fans picked up on this very scene like I did.

I'll contend it's MUCH cooler to have a Cap/Hawkeye out and out FOOT chase (with shield vs arrows in pursuit) on a roof top. And story aside from an abilities/skills stand point the other way around makes MUCH more sense with Cap outrunning a bike and the Avengers. I think Cap can actually out run a motorcycle at top speed and has in the comics a few times but Hawkeye certainly can't.

And lest us forget a human Hawkeye is also out running Iron Man, Black Panther, and Wasp in that same ridiculous scene. It was their forced attempt to prove "Hawkeye can hang with these guys." And if you watch all the Hawkeye featured eps again they're going waaayyy overboard having this recurring theme of "Hawkeye has to save the whole team again" and bragging about it. Plus doing things waaayy outside of actual human abilities like jump 50 ft in the air and glide or survive getting bear hugged by Abomination.

[90'sCartoonMan]

I've kind of noticed this too, but since Hawkeye wasn't in the earlier episodes, didn't mind it as much. They still need to show how cool he is, and both Cap and Panther got impressive intro's where they fought the team (contrast that to Hawkeye's roof run).

If anything, I feel like there's an increasing Captain America bias just because the more we see him fight and lead, the better off everyone is (and Iron Man doesn't look so good in comparison). Overall, though, I think everyone's been getting good moments of awesome fighting skill, intelligence, or overall displays of heroism.

[AlgeaX]

Personally I agree completely with the OP that there is a very strong Hawkeye bias in this show. The only point where I disagree is the idea that this is a bad thing. ;)