are religous references and gambling allowed on Adult swim?

[Jude Santos]

is it? and do you think stuff like wolfwood's cross-gun on trigun be allowed on AS?

[KingKoopa]

Cowboy Bebop has both gambling and religious references, so I don't see why it wouldn't work on Trigun.

[Shnay]

I really don't think that religious issues are as "taboo" as they once were. I could be wrong, but I think people have lightened up significantly about that kind of stuff (not all, of course, but many). My guess is that the religious material on any shows they pick up in the future will be run relatively in tact (unless they make really go heavy on the edits).

Gambling should also be fine. I get the impression that most people don't really consider gambling "objectionable material." Although many remember the intense game of "go fish" that Gene and Jim had on Outlaw Star (but that was Toonami standards).

I think the standards of what is allowed on Adult Swim will evolve over time into what Adult Swim should have been in the first place. I think that, in time, violence, language, religious refrences, and innuendos could be considered perfectly acceptable for adult swim (which is how it should be). I think the "final frontier" of sorts, for adult swim will be nudity. I'm guessing nudity/sexual material will be where the line is drawn.

[Jude Santos]

how about some material on vandread? do you think vandread could run on AS?

[Jude Santos]

and here's another question, what are the differences that you can tell from the anime on toonami to the anime on ASA?


(i know these are stupid questions, but i need people to answer them :cool:

[Jake]

Here's an even dumber question...

Why is it sooo impossible that Evangelion (sp) will come to adult swim? Is it because the content is too unsuitable for tv? If so, can't they just censor it? It's just that I have heard a lot of great things about the show and would love to see it sometime... :(

[TylerL]

According to Internet Folklore, ADV and/or Gainax won't allow Eva to air censored.

[SirLemming]

I know Toonami has some policies about that. Remember that Tenchi incident that combined both of 'em? Stars of David on a slot machine. That got some people mad.

As for Adult Swim (well yeah, that's what we were talking about in the first place), all I can really mention is the CB episode "Brain Scratch." It's all about a cult, and the leader eventually says some "man created God" stuff that would definitely make people uncomfortable. Heck, I should know -- I'm a Christian. He talked about how humans created the concept of God to get them through life, and how he's just giving people another outlet.

Of course, people who really look into it should realize that this guy is obviously portrayed as a whacko -- that his ideas are meant to be considered, not accepted -- but complainers and editors usually don't take context into account. But this speech was probably one of the most controversial things ever to air on Cartoon Network, and they allowed it.

[Artemis]

And there you have it. The answer to all your questions about how far AS will go with religous references.

As for gambling, I'm willing to bet it's ok. I mean, what is so offensive about gambling? They show people playing poker in kids shows, for heaven's sake!

[kachuke]

i don't think wolfwoods cross gun would be too bad maybe if he held it up like a crucifix and preached from it or somethin like that (i just finished the last episode of trigun 10 minutes ago yea!) it's obviously a cross but i'm pretty sure it is only reffered to as his luggage or a gun never an actual cross

[DarkMaster]

religion yes, gambling no. Faye was at the slot machine.

Go look in the editing interview at animenewsnetwork. They mentioned airing Vandread, battle athletes and one other anime, i think, which escapes my mind right now.

[Beat]

The only thing really not allowed is nudity.

[Onamae]

Episode 3 of Cowboy Bebop took place on a casino. I'd say gambling okay.

As for religion? Gundam Wing Uncut had Heero saying "I don't belive in God" to Relina and Treize giving some speech that went along the lines of humans are higher than God (I can't remember exatly...)

[Beat]

Plus all the horsebetting.

[Killtacular]

And the entire Space Ghost episode, "Sweet for Brak."

[Sheamon]

Originally posted by Jake
Here's an even dumber question...

Why is it sooo impossible that Evangelion (sp) will come to adult swim? Is it because the content is too unsuitable for tv? If so, can't they just censor it? It's just that I have heard a lot of great things about the show and would love to see it sometime... :(

It actually has very little to do with the content. If you really take a deep look at Eva, you'll find that it would fit very nice on ASA and assuming edits were at the CB standards, it would most likely get through 99% unscathed.

Remember, above all else, its an action show. Thats why Eva is so much more likely to be on TV than something like Lain despite the fact that Lain's questionable content is much tamer. Even the 10 year olds who wouldn't understand it would love the mecha fights. And we all know that underagers are watching the block :rolleyes:

When you get down to it, the only really big problem edit-wise would be the barbie doll style nudity in episodes 20 and 23. The religous stuff is window dressing that doesn't even bash religon (while religon bashing got through on 'Brain Scratch' and episode 14 of unedited Gundam Wing where Treize said God didn't exist). Its not a problem. The 'scene' with Unit 03 would have to be tamed down, but not the extent that they'd have to remove it. The offscreen 'sex scene' should be no problem if WS has guts.

Truth is, there's 2 reasons why the shows not on the air now, will not be on the air soon, and in all likelyhood will never be on the air. One is the ending. The last 2 episodes is the worst ending in anime history and we all know that End of Eva will never be shown on TV with its real(not barbie doll like in the series) nudity. Not to mention the fact that it'll be 2014 before Manga finally gets it out -_-

And of course the biggest reason is that regardless of what WS wants, Gainax won't let them show it unless EVERYTHING gets through untouched. We all know that won't happen. Save up for the DVDs, you're not gonna see it on national TV, ever.

[KingKoopa]

I don't think barbie doll nudity would be a problem at 1:30 at night. We just need to wait for WS to get the guts to add some TV-MA material, then Eva wouldn't be a problem.

[KingKoopa]

Originally posted by nothing
The day they add TV-MA is the day I'll tell you all who I am. Alright. So you're going to post a topic, or what?

[Teio]

Why would they give the "Warning" before every show if it wasn't intended for 18 and up,and by stating "18 and up" it would grant them the TV-MA rating,but if they said the following programs are intended for 14 and up then that would grant them only the TV-14 rating.What I'am saying is that they aren't telling us that "the following programs are intended for 18 and up" for the fun of it,that means that they have the permission to use the TV-MA rating and that the "Warning" is just not for show but instead means something.

[SirLemming]

They say that to make it as absolutely clear as possible to stupid American parents that ANIMATION does not necessarily = KIDS' STUFF! And apparently the local TV directory still doesn't get it -- Cowboy Bebop & YuYu Hakusho are marked in purple, which designates that they're kids' shows. THEY'RE TV-14, YOU IDIOTS!

But apparently, some people never learn, and Cartoon Network realized that. This way, there's no way anyone can rightfully complain. The warning is obviously way too extreme...

[G1Ravage]

About "off-screen sex scenes"....in those episodes of Cowboy Bebop where Spike has flashbacks to.....oh, wait....maybe it's a spoiler:

When Spike has flashbacks about Julia and stuff, there are two distinct shots that pop up a couple of times that show Julia in bed with either Spike or Vicious, and you can tell they're naked, even though they're under the covers for the most part. WS left that in.

[Galaxia]

There was one scene with Julia and Vicious (in Session 5 - Vicious sitting up in the bed with Julia lying next to him) and Spike and Julia (session 26), but the one with Spike looks more obvious...

[stanteau]

I don't believe this Gainax not letting it on TV crap.The only time I hear about is from fanboys and if I ask 'em where they got the info from they just say "something I heard".I aint gonna believe it til someone posts an official link to it.

And the only edits I can see happening is adding clouds to the Rei tanks and editing the blood form the EVA 03 fight and the episode where Shinji breaks out of the angel

[SpaceCub]

For cripes sake, Did everyone just friggin' forget Honky Tonk Woman?! The entire ep only took place on a casino! Spike only met Faye during a blackjack game! Of course AS allows gambilng! I was about ready to have a blood vessel burst in my head until Onamae mentioned it too. Thank you Onamae.

I'd have to say that they wouldn't have problem with religion either, once again, going from previous shows (most on Toonami, even). The "Heaven's Day" ep in Big O was pretty much a take on how Christianity would survive a world wide apocalypse. Melfina consulted that bird-guy-priest on the meaning of life in the one ep of OS. I'm pretty sure CB had a slight mention of Christianity somewhere, but I can't quite remember (I think Jet said GD-it once). But I KNOW Trowa Barton was wearing a cross around his neck as he was piloting the one MS in Endless Waltz. The part where he says something like "I'm a souless warrior without a past" or something.

But why do people feel the need to censor Anime on AS at all? As someone pointed out, wasn't that the point of making AS in the first place? To show animation that wasn't for kids.

---
"That's it! Drop the %!@&-ing hammer!"

[VinceA]

Needless to repeat but there are still some things that some people would complain about quite loudly to anyone that will listen. Nudity & sex being two of them (of course, most violence is OK... yeah we're running on all 8 cylinders here in the US... right)

Seeing a guy's butt on NYPD Blue is OK but seeing the same thing animated on CN's AS would cause someone to have a heart attack - and while they recovered they'd write to the FCC, their representatives in Washington, etc. Even if the people or agency weren't responsible they'd still get a letter. I've noticed that one wacko with a pen can cause more trouble than a thousand geeks with an online petition.

[Beat]

Then the CN should just point to their mountains of disclamers.

[VinceA]

I wish that would work but it probably wouldn't. The wacko(s) in question would also write to the sponsors (YAFFA!) and complain to them and threaten a boycott. Boycott is the one thing a sponsor doesn't want to deal with when they're advertising on a "cartoon" show.

[Shnay]

What has to be remembered is that this is the Cartoon Network, and 95% of their airtime is dedicated to entertainment suitable for children. The idea of having some time for animated shows dedicated to adults is great (hey, that's why we're all here, right?). HOWEVER, they still have to worry about the parent of the kid who tunes into channel 78 (or whatever) to see good ol' Scooby Doo and ends up seeing Spike shooting someone in the head.

Do the disclaimers, TV ratings, late air time, and the "Adult Swim" id box give them the upper hand when dealing with any possible angry parents? Most definately. But there's still a possiblility of parents complaining about CN showing such "offensive" material on a network for kids. This could easily get the network bad publicity. And, as with any organization, they want to be very careful about avoiding bad publicity if they can. Especially since bad publicity is particularly harmful to a family-type organization.

The arguement that said parents would make is stupid. We know that. But the overprotective mother of an eight year old boy who has been "corrupted" is another story.

Remember the first airings of Adult Swim Comedy? They removed anything (including the id box, commercials, etc.) that would identify them as the Cartoon Network during that time. They also ran the "TV-PG" or "TV-14" box at the top of the screen during the entire programs. They were obviously very nervous about running that stuff the first few times, and they still are to some extent.

In the future, the programs (especially anime for ASA that will be aquired in the future) will be subject to much more lenient standards of editing. But I think there will always be a certain nervousness CN has about airing "adult" material. After all, there's always someone who will complain, no matter how ludicrous the arguement.

[Anyone00]

The "Heaven's Day" ep in Big O was pretty much a take on how Christianity would survive a world wide apocalypse. Melfina consulted that bird-guy-priest on the meaning of life in the one ep of OS.

Actually that ep. of Big O the blind girl mentioned how the elderly in that neighborhood gather at the local ruin of the Church and sang but she also said they didn't remember what they were singing about. In addition in a conversation between Rodger and Dan the directly said "Book of Revelation" and didn't seem to recognize "Book of Revelation" (most people who are only vaguely familiar with Christianity seem to know of Revelations... people also seem to pay attention to the end and some time the beginning but seem to forget about the middle :o sorry getting off topic). They also mentioned how the Government/Paradigm Corporation wiped out the vast majority of book, films, etc. that were around before the Event. It's also mention how Paradigm Corporation is the city's "church" and the company’s HQ is essentially the Temple of Mammon (sp?) form Fritz Lang's Metropolis (at least I think it is, not a 100% sure). So Christianity doesn't seem to have survived out in the open in Big 0. There was that one scene in a Church in another ep. (that was bombed in that scene) but they could have been using the building for other functions or where just singing and not knowing what about. Taking this into consideration the religious edits in the "Heaven's Day" make even less sense since the things left in would be far more offensive to the primary group that would be offended then the things left out.
As for that scene in Outlaw Star aliens in Sci-fi shows on TV always seem to be generally more religious that humans (the primary exception probably being Babylon 5), so people tend to be more use to it more, so they're more apt to let it slide.

[SirLemming]

VinceA: They can probably show butts, in certain situations. Or maybe just male butts or something (don't ask me why). They show that all the time in The Simpsons. Heck, even Escaflowne -- on FOX KIDS showed a human male butt!

...that was one of the oddest paragraphs I've ever written...

[stanteau]

Back when Bob and Margeret was on Comedy Central they showed breasts numerous times.

[rmarti3926]

You know guys, this is getting too weird.

If Bugs Bunny can play poker in the short "Barnary Coast Bunny" (heck, he even played a lighthearted version of RUSSIAN ROULETTE!), If Sailor Jupiter can play roulette with a Heart Snatcher on an episode of Sailor Moon S, If Spike and Jet go at it at the slots in "Honky Tonk Woman", then why not restore some of the gambling edits on Oultaw Star. Aside from the "Go Fish" debacle from "Outlaw World", there's this scene from "Gathering for the Space Race" where Suzuka place bets on a Casino that was cut off.

Like they say, life IS a gamble.

[SpaceCub]

Lemming, I was reading you post when I thought of something: Why is it ok for Fox have Fox Kids during the day, and then shows like Simpsons and Jerry Springer (granted, at about the same time of day that CB is shown), but parents get PO'ed when CN tries to do the same thing? I hate double standards.

You'd figure that CN would have less to worry about, considering Rupert Murdoch has a hell of a lot less money than Teddy Turner.

---
"It'll be just like the Swiss Family Robinson, but with more swearing. We'll live like kings! HELL DAMN ASS KINGS!"

[VashTheStampede]

Here's hoping for "Blackjack Jesus" the Series.

[VinceA]

Ted Turner doesn't own CN anymore. AOL does

Why cartoon breasts can show up on other networks and not CN is mostly perception. CN was born as (and remains) a cartoon channel. Most of the country still wrongly maintains that cartoons/animation are for children only. So a lot of yahoos will ignore the fact that the show on CN is rated TV-M and start ranting about nudity in a 'kiddie show'

[Teio]

So does anyone here think that CartoonNetwork will one day air a program with the TV-MA rating?

Can someone here post up the text for the dislcaimer(The message they post before every show warning people about its content),thanks.

[SpaceCub]

I don't know if I like that or not Vince (thanks again, BTW for correcting me). I never liked Turner, but that crazy-assed old bastard was a lot cooler than AOL. Did he sell all out Warner to AOL, or just CN? I though AOL-Time-Warner was mor of a merger thing.

I could easily see CN showing an M rating sometime next year. But with the ratings AS gets, I could see a whole nother channel more likely.

---
"Sir, if you swear again I'm going to have to cut you off"

[Teio]

So how is ASA doing in the ratings anyway?Anybody got any sort of Ratings data they can show us?

[Allen's Nickname.]

I don't know if I like that or not Vince (thanks again, BTW for correcting me). I never liked Turner, but that crazy-assed old bastard was a lot cooler than AOL. Did he sell all out Warner to AOL, or just CN? I though AOL-Time-Warner was more of a merger thing.

It was a Merger thing. AOL Dosn't own Cn, HBO, Time Mag, or any other Aol Time warner company, The media conglormate AOL-Time warner owns them. Aol is one half though.