Remember all those posts last week about the crappy PD Betty Boop prints on LNB&W....

[J Lee]

...judging by tonight's show, someone at CN really wants to try and tick a lot more people off.

Well, at least they showed one pre-code Betty in the first 20 minutes of the show, though I'm betting the re-drawn "Is My Palm Red?" with the color turned off shows up before the hour's over.

[Brian Cruz]

Whoever invented Pudgy should be shot, if they're not already dead.

[PorkyandDaffy]

If the last 2 cartoons turn out to be even more crappy Betty Boop PD prints, topped off with a B&W Powerpuff Girls cartoon or another modern cartoon, I think this LNB&W will surpass last week's as the worst ever.

[PorkyandDaffy]

Now they're showing a Popeye cartoon. I don't like Popeye all that much, but almost anything's better than seeing another poor quality Betty Boop print.

[Patrick McCart]

Perhaps they're doing a farewell show for the PD prints...

[J Lee]

OK, they didn't show "Is My Palm Red?" and at least "Brotherly Love" is one of the better Popeyes. But did someone at CN go out and buy a bunch of PD Betty Boop tapes a couple of weeks ago? I mean, at least they aren't showing the same six or seven over and over again, but they're still not showing the good ones, either

And BTW -- Myron Waldman is the one responsable for Pudgy. Dave Tendlar was the one who created Grampy, which shows in part why Tendlar is regarded more highly than Waldman among the Fleischer/Famous animators (Waldman would follow up Pudgy 15 years later by being the main head anamator behind the incredibly repatitious Casper series. They both featured a lot of happy people/animals frolicking around and not doing much of anything for six minutes, and if he could have figured out a way to have the Man of Steel frolicking with happy animals in the Superman cartoons he was head animator on, he probably would have done that, too.

[hiphats]

OK, I think it's time I try and explain everything the best I can...

...a majority of the Betty Boop cartoons are in the public domain. Only a fraction of them are under copyright by Republic Pictures (formerly U.M. & M. and NTA). As you know, Republic exists today as an in-name-only company as they are in charge of overseeing the more than 3,000 movies and TV series they inherited from the pre-1952 United Artists, pre-1990s NBC, Quinn Martin, Spelling, and Worldvision libraries. Of course, Republic is also the outlet of Paramount/Viacom.

Republic also owns whatever surviving elements to the Betty Boop cartoons they have.

Because a majority of the Boop cartoons are in the public domain, CN will do anything to get whatever print they can find (even if it is bad).

I too think it's time Boop takes a long siesta.

hips
SUPERMAN Web Central
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[Joe Tully]

I like some of the Betty Boops plenty, but I have a feeling that most of the ones that I like won't be shown on CN. At least Ha Ha Ha got on last night.

[Sogturtle]

Okay Brainth (quoth Leon Schlesinger)~

I agree with Brian... Myron Walman should have been shot... BUT I would have first forced him to publicly recant and apologise for his creating Pudgy and even worse for his desecrating poor Betty Boop. If they show "Betty Boop's Trial" you'll see the last dying gasps of the flirtatious as anything, sexy as all-get-out Betty. That cartoon introduced the annoying but fey Fearless Fred, who lasted a little while, till Waldman etc. decided to give her that wretched mongrel-cur and make poor Betty into someone's maiden Jewish aunt. Oy vey!! For that final insult Myron Waldman should have been made to suffer through some of Grampy's torturous inventions BEFORE being shot, drawn and quartered, burned at the stake, and beheaded!!!! EVEN Paul J. Smith (at Lantz) never violated a character as badly as Waldman did to Le Boop!!!

The real truth of the matter is that virtually any Betty cartoon made post-June 1934 is really an exercise in crapola.

I guess I'm one of the lucky few who own the box-set of Betty Boop cartoons, complete except for the two quasi-lost Buzzy Boop outings.

[J Lee]

Tim --

Actually the Tendlar Betty's with Grampy aren't a total loss, because the inventions used in the cartoons were always ... well, inventive, and good for a little distraction.

Also the non-Waldman Boops from the final 1938-39 season with a musical theme ("Sally Swing," "So Does an Automobile," "Musical Monutineers") have some energy in them, though unforntunately by then, the Pudgy cartoons made up more than half the series' entries each year.

People talk about the repetitiveness of the 1950s Famous cartoons, but it really started with Waldman's Betty Boops -- either Pudgy does something he's not supposed to and learns a lesson, or he goes frolickng with some new animal friend but then has to protect Betty's house from damage. Over and over and over again...

[Matthew Hunter]

Yuck! I hate Pudgy! That little dog is just as bad as Scrappy Doo, if not worse! Why does Betty need a dog anyway? And the prints of the cartoons had a really bright glow and lots of scratches....where'd they get these, the NTA co.'s dumpster? I did like "Ha Ha Ha", and I like the Grampy cartoons. I'm sure Grampy is not really highly regarded, but hey, I think he's cool. Damn...I stayed up late to watch the show and I didn't even get to see a single Warner cartoon. I think CN compiled this one just to anger people.
-Matthew

[Sogturtle]

John~

Ya know John, I loved the Grampy entries as a child... And as a character he and his inventions are okay (beats the heck out of Wiffle Piffle). But as an adult, when it gets to the point where virtually the only thing worth watching a cartoon for happen to be the inventions of a sidekick then things have gotten pretty darn bad. Ifffff I'd have been the Fleischers then I would have retired the Boopster much earlier, then introduced a new and improved sexpot version in the early Forties....

As for Pudgy... That mutt probably did more to FOSTER cruelty to animals than any other thing I can think of! :)

Maybe we could throw Pudgy on the bonfire with Myron Waldman... :)

[DR. BELCH]

Well, I asked for a Boopathon a couple of weeks ago...and I have a feeling some CN execs haunt these boards and heard my prayer. I'm a dog lover, so I find Pudgy amusing and cute--esp. when he tries to act tough in "You Aren't Built that Way. Also, the masochist way he seems to enjoy it when Betty spanked him at the end of the ep in which he tries to be a fire dog made me laugh no end. Plus a couple of Popeyes to cap off the show, which leads me to a query: why was Popeye blowing smoke in Olive's face cut so roughly in the first short when her getting clocked twice and getting a black eye in the second not? Did anyone else think that trapese artist looked really fruity?
Plus there was a thread about drug-induced cartoons a while back--and "Ha Ha Ha" gets kind of trippy when the laughing gas cloud blankets the city (esp. the laughing gravestones). I'm surprised they didn't show the one short where Popeye and Betty both appear (she's topless in that one!)
Of course I thought the prints looked scratched and dark in places...and the first short had a really bad cut, not from censoring, but I imagine sloppy repair due to film breakage....

[lislebartman]

Except for the 2 Popeye cartoons, it was indeed an awful show. Those PD Betty Boop prints are terrible! As for bashing Pudgy -- please, go right ahead! I find it quite amusing!

I'm miffed that no Warners 'toons were shown. When are they going to start showing some of the post Harman-Ising Merrie Melodies or some of the better one-shot Looney Tunes? Bosko or Buddy would be nice, but I highly doubt we'll get those broadcast!

[J Lee]

Ya know John, I loved the Grampy entries as a child... And as a character he and his inventions are okay (beats the heck out of Wiffle Piffle). But as an adult, when it gets to the point where virtually the only thing worth watching a cartoon for happen to be the inventions of a sidekick then things have gotten pretty darn bad.

I agree that the Grampy cartoons are only good for a once-in-a-while viewing, but that still puts them ahead of the Pudgy ones, which are about as dreary as a Luno the Flying Horse marathon would be.

Betty actually died out two years before she would have reached the promised land -- had Miss Boop been able to make it to the start of World War II, with the more relaxed standards that films for our men in uniform allowed (see Avery's "Red" cartoons), I'm sure the storymen at Fleischer/Famous would have been able to put her back into the story lines that were more suited for her personality (casting Betty as a Mata Hari-like spy in some 1942-43 cartoon with Hitler in it would have definitely produced some wild stuff, especially if Jim Tyer was the head animator) and could have dumped that rotten little mutt.

[Sveven Dvorking]

He gives the story a better plot. I hear you bashing him, but I don't understand why. As for the bad Betty Boop prints, I do not find them to be a problem. I always think of perfect prints as 'remastered', even if they aren't.

[Sveven Dvorking]

What's so bad about Pudgy? He gives the story a better plot. I hear you bashing him, but I don't understand why. As for the bad Betty Boop prints, I do not find them to be a problem. I always think of perfect prints as 'remastered', even if they aren't. I like watching Betty Boop (bad prints) and Popeye, but even an overplayed WB cartoon would have made it better. LNB&W is just not the same without a WB cartoon...

[Mibbitmaker]

The Hayes Office is most to blame for ruining Betty Boop. Likely, the cartoons would be similar to before otherwise. Popeye became their best work post-code. Betty was great in maximum "rubber hose" style, but the invention-using, mumble-adlibs era suited Popeye most. Too bad Betty couldn't've been resurected in the war years as suggested above. She could've gone to WB and be renamed Betty Bewwwwwoop! :D Of course, if they had her in war themed pictures, they'd probably not be seen on CN :(

[Nelson]

Maybe Cartoon Network should strike a deal with the company (Republic Home Video) that owns the Fleischer cartoons to air them, fully restored cartoons in great condition.
About a little over a year ago, I heard that Richard Fleischer(Max's Son) was going to take the matter into his own hands, by releasing all of his father's cartoons onto video/dvd in which we were to see such Fleischer classics such as:The Inkwell Imps, Screen Songs, the early Talkartoons, Stone Age cartoons, and the Gabby cartoons.I would certainly hope that Mr. Fleischer will get these other classic gems on video, since the Republic Home Video does not have any plans to release his father's cartoons anytime soon. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Mike]

>>Maybe Cartoon Network should strike a deal with the company (Republic Home Video) that owns the Fleischer cartoons to air them, fully restored cartoons in great condition. <<

Unfortunately, CN's hands are tied. AMC has an exclusive deal with Republic to air the Bettys. I have no clue when the deal runs out, but I doubt AMC is anxious to speed things up. A few years back, WB took many of their best movies from AMC to put on TCM. AMC used to show some really good movies; they just don't anymore, as most of the great movies are on TCM. I personally like the switch, as TCM treats their movies better than AMC ever did (and they don't show commercials either), but the folks at AMC probably blame TCM for their station's downward spiral, and thus aren't in any hurry to do CN any favors, as CN's one of TCM's sister stations.

Mike

[billyjoelfan]

Originally posted by J Lee
Well, at least they showed one pre-code Betty in the first 20 minutes of the show

what is pre -code


are there any LT&MM pre code


thanks


billy joel 'you bean goen to long' fan

[J Lee]

Suprisingly to anyone under the age of 65, there actually was some nudity and risque language in the early talking pictures, which was an outgrowth of the risque styles of the 1920s. But thanks to the Depression and the reaction against anything having to do with the 20s, by 1934 civic groups around the country had gotten Hollywood to institute a "code" system of decency on its films.

Mae West's films were considered the worst offenders with the double-entendre language, and were being distributed by Paramount at the time, the same studio that was home to Max Fleischer and Betty Boop. So when the hammer came down on Mae, it took out Betty too, and her cartoons were "sanitized" with virtually all refrences to sex or images of a scantily-dressed Ms. Boop removed. That's the difference between pre-code and post-code cartoons.

Without a sexy female leading character Warners and the other animation studios didn't have the same problems the Fleischers did, though pressure did come to make Mickey Mouse a goody-two-shoes even before the code arrived (and of course there's that disputed line of dialouge in "Bosko's Picture Show" that would have been banned in mainstream Hollywood filmn until 1968, if he really did say it).