Any love for Spiderman the animated series ? [Archive]

Wonderwall

12-18-2010, 09:44 PM

It was one of my favorite shows when I was a kid. Nowadays I really mostly like it for nostalgia. There are still things I still like even now, I like the first season and the animation in about 4 episodes( Night of the Lizard and the first 2 parts of the Alien Costume and The Chameleon one, although I haven't seen that one in awhile ), I like Barnes as Spider Man even with the hammy dialogue and the rushing through my lines reads that everyone seemed to have at some point.

And I liked the overarching story in the 2nd and 3rd seasons, as it was one of the first times I had seen that in a cartoon, and by that time that was probably it's saving grace as clearly the visuals of the show were looking pretty bad by then. I never cared for the 4th season or most of the last season, the vampire stuff should have been left at the script stage when it was clear they couldn't do it with the iron fisted censorship but I still think the last episode is kind of neat.

Very much a product of it's time that in many ways hasn't aged well but still has some good stuff in between the many wrinkles and gray hair.

suss2it

12-18-2010, 10:05 PM

I've found the 1994 Spider-Man and 1999 Spider-Man Unlimited to have been way better than either Spider-Man show in the 2000's in the story-telling, voice acting and art/animation departments.All the other stuff is subjective, but there's no way that the 90s show had better animation than Spectacular. They used so much stock footage for one, and the movements are very stiff compared to Spectacular.

I remember watching some the 90s show. I remember really liking Hobgoblin and the Venom story arc, and the finale with all the different Spider-Man. But nowadays I can't really watch it without cringing, the voice acting is just so over the top, Kingpin being behind everything is tiresome, and Doc Oct playing second fiddle to him all the time was likewise annoying.

Rick Jones

12-18-2010, 11:07 PM

I still think the first season is pretty enjoyable as a whole. I'm a Hobgoblin fan and I thought he was great on the show ( at least until that Goblin War stuff). There are also a few casting choices that I still think were primo such as Chris Barnes, Mark Hamill, Efrem Zimbalist, Jr, and Jim Cummings. I liked Hydro Man here more than I ever really liked him anywhere else and I thought things were pretty interesting whenever he showed up. There are things that I definitely wish were done differently but I am glad that they attempted Secret Wars. I also thought that the 2 part Spider-Wars finale was pretty cool.

Gregatron

12-19-2010, 12:02 AM

I really like this show. I can't decide if I like this or Spectacular more. One thing I really liked about this show was season 2. I liked how it was a season long event with Peter trying to be cured of his disease and dealing with Morbius.

I hope this show gets released on dvd soon. While I wait I'll watch it on Marvel's site.

satam55

12-19-2010, 05:00 PM

I love the show. I'm still waiting for it to be released on dvd in the u.s.

Trevor

12-19-2010, 05:31 PM

All the other stuff is subjective, but there's no way that the 90s show had better animation than Spectacular. They used so much stock footage for one, and the movements are very stiff compared to Spectacular.

The animation was better in the 90's shows, while the movements in Spectacular are very flat and stiff in comparison. With SSM I might as well be watching a show that was animated out of construction paper.

Spider-Man

12-19-2010, 05:59 PM

The animation was better in the 90's shows, while the movements in Spectacular are very flat and stiff in comparison. With SSM I might as well be watching a show that was animated out of construction paper. I would love to know what Spidey cartoon you're watching as that doesn't sound even remotely close to the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon that myself and many others are watching.

And don't get me wrong I love the 1990s Spider-Man cartoon but I also don't pretend that it's a work of art. It's a fun cartoon especially in the first season that went quickly downhill after that. It's very reminiscent of the 1990s era comics of being flashy but ultimately hollow. I love the cartoon but it doesn't compare to the likes of Spectacular Spider-Man. I'm still hoping the whole first season gets a release on DVD.

Trevor

12-19-2010, 06:30 PM

I would love to know what Spidey cartoon you're watching as that doesn't sound even remotely close to the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon that myself and many others are watching.

I could ask you the same question, since the Spectacular cartoon that Sony has put on the DVD's is complete garbage.

Rick Jones

12-19-2010, 06:35 PM

Guys, I believe the thread starter created this thread for positive discussion of the 1990s series. There's no reason for any show bashing in here. Let's try to keep it on topic.

macattack

12-19-2010, 06:38 PM

The show has its ups and downs, and the downs become more apparent over time. The 1st season was basically classic Spidey and had the best animation, music placement, and voice-acting. But the animation started going downhill in the 2nd season and at times the show leaves me cringing. The writing also got hammier, as did the acting. And the music placement . . . ugh. You got the feeling that they just didn't care in how they threw the score around.

I always did like Kingpin and Smythe's interactions. The way Wilson Fisk says "Smythe!" is an earworm that'll never leave your head.

But, ultimately, the show kinda derailed. There are still some good episodes (Black Cat's origin is one, mostly because I like Black Cat), and the last season had some truly geek-out moments, such as a plot revolving around Captain America, the Secret Wars, and then the 2-part finale "Spider Wars" which finally put the visuals at the level of the 1st season.

But taken as a whole, and without a nostalgia filter, the show is about 6 out of 10, and I might be generous. The censorship and oft-sloppy execution really hurt this show, and it's been eclipsed by Spectacular Spider-Man as the "best" Spider-Man cartoon IMO.

Master Toon

12-19-2010, 09:11 PM

It was the best Spider-Man series ever IMO until Spectacular came on the scene. TAS is still pretty awesome though. It's partly the reason I'm such a big Spidey fan now.

Bloody Marquis

12-20-2010, 12:12 AM

Eh, I'll admit that Roscoe Lee Browne will forever be the voice I'll hear when reading Kingpin's dialogue in the comics.

AlgeaX

12-20-2010, 08:53 AM

You know I used to love Spidey:TAS as a kid, it was the show that acted as my gateway into Peter Parker's world and the Marvel universe in general. It and the other Marvel 90s toon are probably what got me into comics in the first place, and for that I'm eternally grateful.

But when I swap my nostalgia goggles for my critical analysis goggles, it becomes clear that this series has simply not aged well at all. It's very hit or miss to be honest. Animation was fantastic when it was good but they clearly didn't have the budget to keep it up for long, quickly becoming over reliant on recycled footage and rather choppy editing.

The voice casting and acting ranged from inspired (Roscoe Lee Brown, Ed Asner, Mark Hamil) to mediocre (sorry Barnes fans, CDB was good at delivering quips but dear lord, no one ever ask him to emote again) to down right cringe inducing (worse offenders being MJ and Harry "these robots are eeexxxcceeellaaant!" Osborn).

There was also a very real shift in the kind of stories they told between seasons one and two. Season one was mostly updatings and retelling of classic Lee/Ditko/Romatia era stories with a strong focus on classic spidey villains like Doc Ock, Hobgoblin and Scorpion and all was well. At some point halfway through season two the series lost it's way.

I think the show jumped the shark at around the same time Morbius somehow became Spidey's archenemy. I really don't what it was about this z-list footnote in comic history that made the creators want to dedicate whole sprawling season long story arcs to him, or why they thought it would be a good idea to do the same with Madam Web. When you're making a Spidey toon where Morbius The Living Vampire gets more screen time then Doc Ock or the Green Goblin, you need to start seriously rethinking you're priorities.

And I really don't want to go any farther because it sounds like I hate the show, because I really don't. Like I said, I did really enjoy the show when I was a kid but looking back and comparing it to contemporary show's like B:TAS or Gargoyles, it's obvious that time has not been kind to it at all.

Admittedly though I haven't actually rewatched an episode since I first saw Spectacular. and I make no secret of being a drooling fanboy of that show. So maybe I'm being biased, though I really don't consider the two shows to be in competition with each other. And whenever I critique the 90s series I consciously try not to be all "Well Spectacular did X, so TAS sucks 'cause they did Y instead", and I hope someone here would let me know if they caught me doing that. Because for better or worse, TAS would still be the exact same show it is if Spectacular never existed, and it should be judged on it's own merits.

GregX

12-20-2010, 11:40 AM

I've been reading Spider-Man comics since at least 1984. By the time 1994 rolled around, I was already a Spider-Man expert, and I knew way, way, way too much about the character and his history. But I was very excited for this toon, and at the time, "Night of the Lizard" was cool... then the second episode premiered, and dear gods, what happened?

Those were my couch potato days, and I still watched the show, at first because I hoped it would pick up, but then to eventually see how bad they were getting it wrong. And they got nearly everything wrong. From putting out the Hobgoblin before the Green Goblin, to giving Mary Jane Gwen Stacy's personality...

... the funny thing about that is I've noticed people who adore this show say they love MJ and hate Gwen. That's not true, they love Gwen when she has red hair, and is called MJ. :evil:

And I still think Norman Osborn and Doc Ock being the Kingpin's buttmonkeys (with the latter being defeated by a child) was unforgivable.

I was thirteen when the show premiered, and not quite as jaded as I am now, but this was the first time I was ever disappointed with an adaption of something I loved... something that has happened quite often since then.

I was always a Marvel guy more than a DC guy. Hell, I've never been a DC guy at all. I remember turning to my brother in 1995 and saying, "when I am much more excited for a Batman cartoon than a Spider-Man cartoon, something is wrong... and when I think the best new cartoon this season is the one about the talking medieval waterspouts and not my favorite wall crawler, something is incredibly wrong."

I just kept on wishing that this show would go die in a fire, it was that terrible.

But, to quickly defend Christopher Daniel Barnes... yes, he did suck in TAS. But that was the fault of bad direction. Tony Pastor couldn't voice direct his way out of a paper bag, and it shows... look at his resume, and you'll see he's disappeared long ago. Barnes did great in "Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions" when a genius voice director, Jamie Thomason, got a hold of him.

CaptainCanada

12-20-2010, 11:51 AM

Great show. Some production aspects are dated (the attempt to reproduce Spider-Man's monologues from the comics, for instance, often comes across as too overwritten for live dialogue), but I loved it nonetheless.

Stu

12-20-2010, 12:39 PM

I absoloutly adored the show as a kid - there was something about this show that sucked me in from the very first episode and didn't stop right up until it's finale.

There was something undeniably awesome about watching a new episode of this show that I've only seen again from The Spectacular Spider-Man - a sense of wonderment that you don't know what you're about to see in the next episode, but you know it'll be awesome. I've watched some great superhero cartoons inbetween the 2 - Batman Beyond, JLU, Wolverine And The X-Men to name but a few, but the sense of unprediactabilty about the show was something which still impresses, many years on.

I would wholeheartedly agree that the show hasn't aged well, however, it wasn't that great in it's day - ignoring Batman with it's bigger budget and the powerful WBA behind it - even Marvel's show done on the cheap, such as Iron Man and Fantastic Four had vastly superior production values than this. There was a shocking dip from the Night of The Lizard to the Morbius episode - it felt like 2 different shows, visuals wise. The animation producer blames it on the schedule, but I fail to understand how massive errors, such as scenes being shown in the wrong order manage to make it to the air, nevermind never being refixed for future airings.

The constant re-use of animation is baffling, especially when Richardson advises that it's better to re-use an older, well animated show than a new not so good one. The simple fact is, when watching the show, I spent a lot of time simple remembering where I first saw that webslinging sequence from, rather than enjoying the episode. Animation should work in service to the story, not distract you from it.

You get the impression a lot of the animation problems would've been rectified had they simply looked to adapt John Romita Jr's tone in the cartoon - his look would've worked with the mood they were going for and the sterioded looks of all the costume characters were always going to be a complete nightmare to animate.

Casting wise - more hits than misses, in my opinion. Barnes is a great Spidey in my opinion (admit to getting a massive thrill out of hearing him Shattered Dimensions), Lee Browne has yet to come anywhere close to be topped as The Kingpin of Crime (and the recent efforts at casting him have been just horrible), Hobgoblin is still Hamill's finest none-Joker work and Neil Ross is just brilliant as both Osborn and The Green Goblin. Ed Asner is also still the best Jameson we've ever had.

There's some duds in there - mainly MJ and Harry but the positives outweight the negatives.

Having recently had the chance to view all the series on DVD, I can honestly say I did really enjoy sitting through each of the episodes on both a nostalgic and somewhat fresh viewer, having not seen a number of episodes for a number of years. Having sat and reviewed and grabbed each episode for my website (http://marvel.toonzone.net/spideytas) too, I can say I did enjoy working on that site more than any other. I also feel it's probably my best site, and there's a good few eye opening interviews to be read if you've missed out. Stop plugging now, Stu.

From putting out the Hobgoblin before the Green Goblin

As a longtime fan, I never saw the problem with this. I think it added an auroa of unpredictability about the show - it was good to see the pressure build up for Norman until he finally became The Green Goblin. You could see the nerves getting to him before he breathed in the gas which served as the catalyst for his transformation.

Plus, I thought The Hobgoblin's opening 2 parter was a lot better than Enter The Green Goblin.

And oddly enough, Semper agrees with you over this! :)

M.O.D.O.K.

12-20-2010, 01:54 PM

There was something undeniably awesome about watching a new episode of this show that I've only seen again from The Spectacular Spider-Man - a sense of wonderment that you don't know what you're about to see in the next episode, but you know it'll be awesome. I've watched some great superhero cartoons inbetween the 2 - Batman Beyond, JLU, Wolverine And The X-Men to name but a few, but the sense of unprediactabilty about the show was something which still impresses, many years on.

Completely agree with this, but experienced this more with Spectacular: In this age of the Internet, where everything can be leaked or spoiled, this show still had some huge surprises and twists. Even when waiting for the Young Justice premiere, I was already afraid I spoiled the whole thing for myself, yet it still had plenty of surprises left. I suppose Sony and WB marketing could be credited for this.

Back on-topic, though, I used to love this show as a kid. I watched it all the time. And though I noticed the sloppy, recycled animation, I still enjoyed it. Looking back on it, though, yeah, the show was pretty poor, even for its time. Most of the writing was horrible, and the excellent voice talent was wasted (though the Latin American dub I watched was top-notch). Most of the stories were overblown and boring, and some of the more interesting plots were either mishandled or ignored.

I still credit it for getting me into Spider-Man and all, but I still can't say it's a good show.

W.C.Reaf

12-20-2010, 08:23 PM

I loved this show as a kid, I really did. While not my first experience of Spidey (that was Amazing Friends) but this was my first time seeing Spidey's world, his supporting characters and love interests. It was my gateway into Spidey, as it was for many of my friends. However while I have since read the comics and learnt the differences between them and the show some of my friends have not. I remember being asked when the Man-Spider or the "Insidious Six" were showing up.

I feel a little bit happy the BBC showed all of it now since we sometimes didn't get a complete series for cartoons in the UK. I remember being lucky to get a random episode of BTAS on TV, same goes for all the other DCAU shows, and they stopped showing Gargoyles a little bit into season 2. But I still had my Spider-Man.

Now I'm less fond of the show, as with most Marvel shows from the 90s, and while the constant stock footage and hammy dialogue didn't bother me as a child it does now. I tried re-watching the series but I've never gotten past season 1 and some select favourite episodes from later (like Green Goblin ones), maybe I will someday but right now my childhood can't take it.

... the funny thing about that is I've noticed people who adore this show say they love MJ and hate Gwen. That's not true, they love Gwen when she has red hair, and is called MJ. :evil:

Isn't that what we're getting now in other media? Just MJ's face with Gwen on the inside. :p

marvelman

12-20-2010, 08:31 PM

I still think it's a good show, i don't think it had bad animation i mean it looks the same as batman from the 90's for bad animation that is x-men the animated series. For the diolouge being chessy it based of a comic so cut it some slack.

I for the first time watched spectacular spider man and it was so awsome it's a little bit better than spider man the animated serise [that i still like] and i see why you all like it, it still is not my favorit marvel show that is xmen tas and avengers emh.

Bloody Marquis

12-20-2010, 08:37 PM

For the diolouge being chessy it based of a comic so cut it some slack.
Since when did being a comic adaptation become an excuse for laziness?

Wonderwall

12-20-2010, 08:43 PM

I still think it's a good show, i don't think it had bad animation i mean it looks the same as batman from the 90's for bad animation that is x-men the animated series.

Batman looks much better and has aged much nicer than Spider Man. Do a side by side it's night and day, even the crummy looking episodes of Batman are better than Spider Man. It had more money to spend, the designs were suited better for a weekly( or daily ) animated show, it was edited in a competent way, and the painted cels looks much nicer than early digital paints that Spider Man used. Also Batman didn't reuse animation to the extreme lengths that Spider Man ended up using, I can't even really remember off the top of my head a time it did( Im sure it did ) but I can remember Spider Man reusing animation in every episode.

X men had bad animation too but I still think it's a shade better than Spidey's because it too didn't rely on reusing complete scenes over and over, better coloring, and having better edits.

suss2it

12-20-2010, 10:11 PM

I think the show jumped the shark at around the same time Morbius somehow became Spidey's archenemy. I really don't what it was about this z-list footnote in comic history that made the creators want to dedicate whole sprawling season long story arcs to him, or why they thought it would be a good idea to do the same with Madam Web. When you're making a Spidey toon where Morbius The Living Vampire gets more screen time then Doc Ock or the Green Goblin, you need to start seriously rethinking you're priorities.
I agree with pretty much everything you said but this. Just because a villain is a D-Lister doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the chance at some prominence. Matter of fact how can characters go from D-List to C, B or A-lists if they're never given the chance to shine. If they just handled the characters better I think it would have been a lot better.

marvelman

12-20-2010, 11:05 PM

Since when did being a comic adaptation become an excuse for laziness?

You haven't ever read a Stan Lee comic before or Dc silver age comic, they where melodramatic and a little cheesy it is a part of there charm. So yea it is okay if you are basing it off a comic book for it to be a little cheesy like the super freinds and bat-man the brave and the bold.

The animation on the other-hand is not that bad it looks okay it moves and it does it's job, and from a buget stand point why waste money on scenes of spider man swing radomly across new york when you can reuse it.

And hey if it was a terrible cartoon in your opinion it made money for marvel, sold tons of toys [wich i had], got tons of merchandise, is still on tv today in some way or another, introduced plenty of people to marvel and spider man, and it's sucess probably caused other marvel cartoons to be produced.
So hey it had bad animation people still liked it, and will still like it for years to come [i only saw it on reruns on jetex], so all that im saying is it did it job and told good storys and was entertain too boot.

if this sounds like i was mad i aint i was just trying to defend it .

Wonderwall

12-20-2010, 11:13 PM

The animation on the other-hand is not that bad it looks okay it moves and it does it's job, and from a buget stand point why waste money on scenes of spider man swing radomly across new york when you can reuse it.

Yea it moves but that doesnt make it good or okay, it was about a decade behind it's contemporaries because of some fundamental design flaws. Why waste money? Putting out a solid product isn't a waste of money and new scenes of him swinging wouldn't have broken the bank. But assuming they didn't have the money for that they really were edited in a haphazard way that even the showrunner admits he hated the way the show was edited.

Edit: But anyway it's water under the bridge or over the dam over wherever anyone likes it, I just know I've tread in it more than I need to and that's all I got to say on that subject.

On a more positive note did anyone else like Felicia over MJ in this show, I mean she was better looking, better dresser, and was voiced by Jennifer Hale! What's not to love:p I was always disappointed she went with that lamewad Morbius.

Bloody Marquis

12-20-2010, 11:27 PM

You haven't ever read a Stan Lee comic before or Dc silver age comic, they where melodramatic and a little cheesy it is a part of there charm. So yea it is okay if you are basing it off a comic book for it to be a little cheesy like the super freinds and bat-man the brave and the bold.
Stan Lee's stuff and the Silver Age were decades before the series ever came to be, so other than usage as source material, there is absolutely no reason for them to carry over the original's faults.

And BATB uses Silver Age tropes in celebration (and a bit of mockery) of it, while Super Friends is widely recognized as a stain that will never be washed from the history of DC Animation. The 90s series had all of the Spidey mythology to use, not just the days of Lee/Ditko. Also, what works for a comic doesn't work for a cartoon. Thus, there is no excuse for them to use archaic dialogue when they could just modernize it into something more natural.

marvelman

12-21-2010, 12:41 AM

I guess I just have a high tolerance for crap but it an't that bad it was just a little and I see your various points about the bad animation, but I just don't think it is that bad. ( don't waste your time trying to get me to think other wise I am stubborn, about that mj and felicia I like the latter because she had a better personality. And what is so bad about superfriends.

chator

12-21-2010, 03:28 PM

I liked the show, while not my favorite Marvel animated show of the 90s (X-Men was), and not my favorite Spiderman cartoon (Amazing Friends was), it does have some commendable features.

1. For one, the stories were updated with pseudo-scientific explanations for some of the villians, all tied to Oscorp's experiments with mutagenics.

2. It also was updated in terms of the villians, like Venom, Hobgoblin, and Hydro-man, which had prior only been seen in Spiderman comics from the 80s, but not in any of the animated series of the 80s.

3. The animation was faster and more dynamic than prior Spiderman animated series.

The downside for me was how the villians and Peter Parker were animated.

1.They looked like steriod taking super-stud jocks. Peter was supposed to be a geek, not look like a quarterback.

2. I also thought the writers took too much liberty with the characters, writing out or downgrading some (Betty, Mary-Jane, Flash Thompson), and putting in others (Aliesha, Harry Osborne, Brock) that were less than useful.

3. Also, minor things like making the Daily Bugle more of a TV station than a newspaper, while keeping Peter as a photographer, not a video journalist, kinda annoyed me, or served to remind me how far they were making changes.

AlgeaX

12-21-2010, 04:51 PM

I agree with pretty much everything you said but this. Just because a villain is a D-Lister doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the chance at some prominence. Matter of fact how can characters go from D-List to C, B or A-lists if they're never given the chance to shine. If they just handled the characters better I think it would have been a lot better.

Yeah that was poorly phrased. In all fairness I usually love it when a comicbook adaptation takes an obscure character and does something cool with them. But dear Lord I couldn't stand Morbius in this show, and the there was Blade and Blade's mom and the ray that turns people into vampires. Enough with the vampires already.

Also, minor things like making the Daily Bugle more of a TV station than a newspaper, while keeping Peter as a photographer, not a video journalist, kinda annoyed me, or served to remind me how far they were making changes.

I think the idea they were going for was that Jonah was a Rupert Murdoch style media mogul, with the Bugle being only one aspect of his empire. I have to admit, I kinda like the idea.

Antiyonder

12-21-2010, 05:11 PM

As a longtime fan, I never saw the problem with this. I think it added an auroa of unpredictability about the show - it was good to see the pressure build up for Norman until he finally became The Green Goblin. You could see the nerves getting to him before he breathed in the gas which served as the catalyst for his transformation.

Agreed. I fully understand the other critiques. Even without the comic as a comparison, TSSM Norman Osborn is an interesting character even without the costume, where TAS Norman needs his Goblin gadgets to be interesting.

And Doctor Octopus, well, he's the kind of villain (mentality and intellect) who seems like he should be calling the shots. Yet he only gets to be his own villain in his first appearance and his final appearance (more or less).

But The Hobgoblin coming first never seemed like something that I would associate with bad quality. Heck, the only real problem with The Hobgoblin is that he becomes a wimp the instant that the Green Goblin captures him.

AlgeaX

12-21-2010, 06:36 PM

But The Hobgoblin coming first never seemed like something that I would associate with bad quality. Heck, the only real problem with The Hobgoblin is that he becomes a wimp the instant that the Green Goblin captures him.

As I understand it, the Hobgoblin coming first was pretty much imposed on them by the toy companies. Honestly I think the handled it as well as they could have. Making Osborn the one providing his tech was probably the best compromise they could manage.

And besides, Mark Hamil's Hobgoblin was awesome. I loved the way they portrayed him as a totally callus mercenary who loved his job. I actually think he was a much better villain then TAS's Green Goblin.

Ian

12-21-2010, 10:50 PM

I think the idea they were going for was that Jonah was a Rupert Murdoch style media mogul, with the Bugle being only one aspect of his empire. I have to admit, I kinda like the idea. Wasn't this the idea for Jonah in the very first few comics? If I remember my Essentials correctly, J.J.J. owned at least one magazine in addition to the Bugle, although nothing much really came of it.

macattack

12-21-2010, 11:39 PM

Rick Jones

12-22-2010, 01:11 AM

On a more positive note did anyone else like Felicia over MJ in this show, I mean she was better looking, better dresser, and was voiced by Jennifer Hale! What's not to love:p I was always disappointed she went with that lamewad Morbius.
Yeah, I preferred Felicia on the show then and I still do now. I may also have preferred Hydro-Clone MJ to regular MJ.

SpongeJosh

12-22-2010, 02:05 AM

JTMarsh

12-22-2010, 01:33 PM

On a more positive note did anyone else like Felicia over MJ in this show, I mean she was better looking, better dresser, and was voiced by Jennifer Hale! What's not to love:p I was always disappointed she went with that lamewad Morbius.
Felicia as Felicia or Felicia as Black Cat? I can only imagine how Black Cat fans felt at the time about how the show portrayed her. I seem to vaguely recall Felicia doing a towel shot, which is amazing considering much the censors castrated the show. :D

Wonderwall

12-22-2010, 02:54 PM

This is my favorite Spider-Man show. I'd like to think it's not just nostalgia or the fact that I'm a guitarist and can't help but love the title music that I love the show. It's not without it's flaws, but it was my introduction to Spidey and I thank it for that.

Yea that's another positive is that for me it was a good introduction to Spider Man for me. I already knew of him but mostly by seeing toys and comics of him. I still remember the commercial on Fox Kids showing the following years new shows and there was a quick shot of Spidey and I remember being really excited for that. The theme song I still like a lot too.

Felicia as Felicia or Felicia as Black Cat? I can only imagine how Black Cat fans felt at the time about how the show portrayed her. I seem to vaguely recall Felicia doing a towel shot, which is amazing considering much the censors castrated the show. :D

Why not both, I'm not picky:p

kid rabbit

12-22-2010, 06:11 PM

yeah what I like about this series is it didn't make black cat a cat woman rip off
they actully made her a super hero with power and a secret id the breif time she was theif she was being forced by the kingpin

capfan1

12-23-2010, 09:52 PM

I think it's the best animated series of spiderman.I especially like the first appearance of Venom,I thought that was the best show when spidey got the black costume.I didn't like some things like a cloned Mary Jane and the spider slayers and the Morbius shows.I really enjoyed seeing Daredevil in this series.

Miyamoto Musashi

12-27-2010, 09:43 PM

As I child I really loved Spider-Man due to these three cartoons:

Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends (my first exposure to Spider-Man, and superheroes in general)
The Twin of Spider-Friends
Some episodes from the 60s show

I loved those too much, then in the year 200 I watched for the first time that new series, I was amazed by the improvement of animation over B:TAS (it still is much better) and the previous Spider-Man shows. Season 2 was less impressive when I felt describing it, I felt like watching the later episodes simply just cause it's a Spider-Man show. There were times when I felt "This is not a Spider-Man show", I started reading comics in the mid 90s and didn't feel this show to be much of a Spider-Man show

As I grew I appreciated the series more -and discovered the cheese in it- and now I consider it one of my favorite 3 Spider-Man series (Spectacular Spider-Man rules, second best is the infamous MTV series), I even appreciate it more than the three series that got me to love the character, I still love them a lot.

Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends: Cheesy and faulty, the weakest animated version of Spider-Man, I noticed many faults in it as a child, found more faults as I grew, I still love it though for more reasons than simply being a Spider-Man series and nostalgia
Spider-Man (1981): Weak, still surpasses Spider-Friends by miles. My confession is that those two shows have the best interpretation of the Red Skull in animation, he's the star of those two shows
Spider-Man (1967): The strongest of the three, still remains very impressive though one dimensional, didn't fall weaker

capfan1

12-27-2010, 10:08 PM

I don't see any point in your post,The thread asks if there is any love for spiderman the animated series which is the 1994 series.Yet you talk about the other spidey series?I used to love the 67 series when I was 5 or 6,then a few years back I wasted my money on the series box set,gave it to my nephew.If your going to compare spidey series then here's mine.#1 spiderman the animated series 1994 # 2 spiderman and his amazing friends #3 in my opinon there isn't any other spidey shows.The mtv series was horrific,and spectacular spiderman couldn't have ended too soon!It was just the worst marvel show I ever watched.

JTMarsh

01-02-2011, 06:22 PM

Judging by most of the posts herein I'd say there's plenty of love for the 90s Spider-Man series.

Miyamoto Musashi

01-02-2011, 09:43 PM

I don't see any point in your post,The thread asks if there is any love for spiderman the animated series which is the 1994 series.Yet you talk about the other spidey series?II said how it stood before, how it stands now among the rest of the shows

I love that show, easily the best of the 90s Marvel shows

kid rabbit

01-02-2011, 10:19 PM

it did help estampish spidy's statsus quo
alot of concepts in the animated series crossedover to the comics and movie
storylines
an orgenize crimeboss running every thing (kingpin mr negative the big man)
the villeins having personnal connections to the supporting cast(tombstone robbie doc ock being spidy grade school teacher)
and peter being a sciencest
the man spider (it never happen in the comics but I loved the twist on spiderman's orgin)

Bloody Marquis

01-02-2011, 10:29 PM

kid rabbit

01-03-2011, 12:37 AM

for superhero shows it was if you watch the 60's spidy and amazing friends it was always standard villien of the week stuff

Bloody Marquis

01-03-2011, 12:49 AM

for superhero shows it was if you watch the 60's spidy and amazing friends it was always standard villien of the week stuff
1. That show was made in the 80s. And even then, they can't be compared due to different eras. That's like saying all superhero movies are cheesy nowadays while using Superman III as evidence.
2. This series was made at the same time we got shows like BTAS or Superman, which also featured villains with histories and motives.
3. Typos.

AlgeaX

01-03-2011, 09:44 AM

it did help establish spidey's status quo,
a lot of concepts in the animated series crossed over to the comics and movie
storylines

I wouldn't say a lot, most of the stuff you cite was established long before S:TAS ever hit the air. They got all that stuff from the comics not the other way round

an organized crime boss running every thing (kingpin mr negative the big man)

Comic Kingpin's been running New York's underworld at least since Frank Miller recruited him into Daredevil's rogues gallery back in the 80s. And Spidey's been fighting crime lords like the Big Man and the Crime Master since Stan Lee's day.

the villeins having personal connections to the supporting cast(tombstone robbie doc ock being spidey grade school teacher)

Doc Ock I'll grant you, but Tombstone was already established as Robbie's childhood friend when he was first introduced in 1988. As for the general idea of giving villains a personal connection to Peter; again, Lee & Ditko/Romitia were doing that back in the 60s with Norman Osborn.

and peter being a scientist

Your kidding right? Peter's always been a science prodigy, since like the first three or four pages of Amazing Fantasy 15. That's the whole reason he got bit by the radioactive spider in the first place, that's how he was able to build the webshooters. Giving the 90s series credit for coming up with the idea of "Peter as Scientist" is like saying "Gee, it really was clever of Sam Rami to give Spidey the ability to stick to walls!"

W.C.Reaf

01-03-2011, 10:41 AM

The 90s series did that had lasting effects on the franchise was to make the Symbiote affect Peter's emotions, especially anger, which has become the default in any new continuity now. From Ultimate to the movies to SSM, they've all used that version of the Symbiote and even the 616 comics are now saying it affected Peter's emotions.

Medinnus

01-03-2011, 11:35 AM

In terms of animation, one of the things I have to work to remember is that not all animation fans are obsessive comic fans - the things that seem fresh and innovative about some episodes, series, etc. are often things taken from the comics, but if an animation fan doesn't have - say - a full run of Spider Man, he might think that the Big Man, Fancy Dan, Montana, and the Ox were creative genius, not that they originated in the first dozen Spidey stories in the early 1960's.

Gilgamesh

01-03-2011, 04:49 PM

Medinnus

01-03-2011, 05:45 PM

Oh, no doubt - I was quite surprised by the AEMH retconn of the WWII Sgt. Fury being Jake Fury, father of Nicolas.

The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon feels more like BENDIS!' Ultimate Spider-Man than the classic Spider-Man (to me in any case), where Gwen is/was (I'm not current on the title) a major supporting cast character.

Gilgamesh

01-03-2011, 05:50 PM

Oh, no doubt - although the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon feels more like BENDIS!' Ultimate Spider-Man than the classic Spider-Man (to me in any case), where Gwen is/was (I'm not current on the title) a major supporting cast character.

If it felt like Bendis, 3/4ths of every arc would've been a cyclical conversation.

Gwen-as-high schooler is Bendis-esque, but it's more like contextualizing a major character into the high school setting as you rebooted it. It's not that it's necessarily a Bendis thing, it's just something common to this kind of revision. It helps that the crew was contextualizing the original Gwen INTO that framework, which is why she was a geek girl slowly growing into a knock-out. Though quite frankly, nerdy Gwen was adorable.

(Though don't take my above comment harshly, I enjoyed most of what I read of Ultimate Spider-Man).

ShadowBlinky

01-03-2011, 06:49 PM

Someone well versed in comics can still be surprised by animation, though. I remember doing a double take when Gwen was on Spec. Spidey just because she NEVER showed up in animation, like, ever.

Actually she did show up in an alternate universe in Spider-Man: The Animated Series. As that universe's Peter's girlfriend, no less.:)

Gilgamesh

01-03-2011, 07:03 PM

Actually she did show up in an alternate universe in Spider-Man: The Animated Series. As that universe's Peter's girlfriend, no less.:)

That would've been better if that storyline wasn't dumb.

GregX

01-03-2011, 07:14 PM

Even as a kid, I could never take this show seriously because I always felt like it insulted my intelligence.

Let's look at the Kingpin and the Goblins for an example. And no, I'm not going into the whole Hobgoblin before the Green Goblin thing.

The Hobgoblin should not have lasted too long after his debut two-parter. Okay, so he nearly kills the Kingpin and tries to take control of the Kingpin's empire. He is driven off by Spider-Man, and Kingpin takes back the reigns.

Okay, Kingpin KNOWS that Norman Osborn hired and equipped the Hobgoblin. This show means to tell me that Kingpin is going to wait two whole seasons before he begins inquiring about this? We've seen that Fisk had this wimpy version of Norman's balls in a vice since both characters appeared, and he doesn't ask questions about where to find the guy who tried to take everything that was his? Really? Really???

And how did the Green Goblin's antics not get OsCorp investigated by the FBI or the Kingpin again.

The Green Goblin kidnaps all these rich and powerful businessmen after Norman Osborn disappears (shortly after they threaten his entire career), and when he has them, he screams at the top of his lungs about avenging Norman Osborn. After Spider-Man rescues them, Norman Osborn is found alive and well...

... no one asks questions. That story about the Goblin being "destroyed" in the fight doesn't come off the least bit suspicious? It's not like Spider-Man is trusted by the public and authorities either. This isn't Superman giving a statement.

And again, Fisk was nearly killed by a Goblin who was definitely connected to Norman Osborn. He doesn't ask questions? He doesn't need to go through proper channels like the authorities would, all he has to do is kidnap and torture Harry until this version of Norman spills the beans. Well, this Norman had amnesia and was a split personality, but that wouldn't stop Fisk from being suspicious at least?

Fisk never stopped and said, "hey, maybe Osborn wants me dead. He hired an assassin once."

Not to mention later on, the Green Goblin called Norman his "creator" in front of Felicia Hardy? Didn't Felicia make a statement of some kind? Norman disappears when the Goblin does, and no investigative journalist connects them? Kingpin never figures it out?

I'm sorry, but this show insulted my intelligence back then, and I could not respect a show that did that.

Capt. Speedbump

01-03-2011, 08:29 PM

Okay, Kingpin KNOWS that Norman Osborn hired and equipped the Hobgoblin. This show means to tell me that Kingpin is going to wait two whole seasons before he begins inquiring about this? We've seen that Fisk had this wimpy version of Norman's balls in a vice since both characters appeared, and he doesn't ask questions about where to find the guy who tried to take everything that was his? Really? Really???

It's possible that Kingpin (and Osborn) assumed Hobgoblin was killed in his last altercation with Spider-Man, at the end of the episode; remember, these characters aren't exacly aware they exist in a TV show based on a comic book and thus no body equals still alive. ;)

Also, regarding your general appraisal of how the show handled the character of Norman Osborn: keep in mind that when the show debuted, Norman Osborn was dead in the comics, and AMZ#122 was his last appearance. At that point, and what I think was reflected in the 90's series, the Green Goblin persona was pretty much responsible for most of Osborn's evil; Norman Osborn himself was portrayed as pretty much a normal, in fact somewhat decent guy. (For example, AMZ#47 had him genuinely concerned about Harry, and not exactly a match for Kraven) Maybe not as much as a pushover the 90s series portrayed him, but not exactly as a master of evil without the green mask.

It really wasn't until Norman Osborn Was brought back to life in the late 1990s that his personality outside the Goblin mask became that of a ruthless businessman, and Osborn became as much a megalomaniacal force as the Green Goblin. This "new" Osborn was handled very effectively in The Spectacular Spider-Man animated series, but the character did not exist in this form when the 90's show debuted.

GregX

01-03-2011, 08:39 PM

It's possible that Kingpin (and Osborn) assumed Hobgoblin was killed in his last altercation with Spider-Man, at the end of the episode; remember, these characters aren't exacly aware they exist in a TV show based on a comic book and thus no body equals still alive. ;)

Then after the events of "The Mutant Agenda" in the early part of season two, Hobgoblin was seen alive and well. Again, Kingpin didn't ask any questions?

I just thought there was no internal logic to how Kingpin dealt with the goblins. I am arguing in universe about Kingpin's behavior here.

Capt. Speedbump

01-04-2011, 10:10 AM

Then after the events of "The Mutant Agenda" in the early part of season two, Hobgoblin was seen alive and well. Again, Kingpin didn't ask any questions?

I just thought there was no internal logic to how Kingpin dealt with the goblins. I am arguing in universe about Kingpin's behavior here.

I haven't seen the episodes in years, so I could very well be wrong, but I think Landon wasn't yet working directly under the Kingpin; Kingpin hired him to create the mutant soldiers, then pretty much left him alone. It may be possible (though admittedly somewhat unlikely) that Landon didn't explain the events to the Kingpin after his hospitalization and up until Kingpin hired him to replace Smythe. If this is the case, Kingpin wouldn't have known that Hobgoblin, not to mention the X-Men were involved, and even if he did know, he may not have cared since Hobgoblin wasn't attacking him directly. Admittedly, this is kind of a weak defense, and may not even be valid, so your points about the Kingpin's attitude toward the Hobgoblin are still intact regardless. :)

90'sCartoonMan

01-06-2011, 02:53 AM

I love Spider-Man The Animated Series to death, but I'm sure a lot of it hasn't aged well, and I was never impressed with the animation (well, outside very early episodes).

I liked the continuing plots the series had, but if this ever gets a DVD release and I'm able to watch the whole thing, I know I'll suffer from arc fatigue, particularly with the vampire stuff.

Still, this was probably the last Spider-Man cartoon actually allowed to run its full course, even if it did have plans for another season.

I may also have preferred Hydro-Clone MJ to regular MJ.

Me too, but that's because Hydro-Clone MJ found out Peter is Spider-Man, and their relationship was deeper than the one Peter had with the real MJ. Although, presumably, she would've responded to him the way her clone did.

The 90s series did that had lasting effects on the franchise was to make the Symbiote affect Peter's emotions, especially anger, which has become the default in any new continuity now. From Ultimate to the movies to SSM, they've all used that version of the Symbiote and even the 616 comics are now saying it affected Peter's emotions.

Also, giving the Symbiote a space origin without involving the Secret Wars. Ultimate hasn't done that, but everything else has.