WWF RAW is WAR talkback (spoilers and preview)

[BLACKHEART]

I came across the matches for tonight's RAW


Intercontinental Title
-RVD (c) vs. Booker T

Hardcore Title
-Raven (c) vs. Bubba Ray Dudley

European Title
-William Regal (c) vs. Spike Dudley

Big Show vs. Goldust

Kane vs. X-Pac

-- Also, there is a rumor going around that a possible belt presentation could be made tonight on RAW for Triple H. This would show a brand new championship title being presented to Triple H as the new official Undisputed championship title. This would obviously mean that the current WWF and WCW World titles that Triple H and Chris Jericho have been carrying around during their championship reigns would be removed from WWF television and replaced with the new single title representing the Undisputed champion status. However, this is not officially confirmed for tonight.

[Djm912]

:D BOOKER T'S GOT AN INTERCONTINENTAL TITLE SHOT :D

A new belt would be cool but I'll kinda miss the WCW title, oops I mean World Title. :rolleyes:

[BLACKHEART]

Bubba Ray's getting a title shot as well. Those are two guy's you don't expect getting title shots.

[Djm912]

No kidding. Especially Buh Buh.

I can already expect that the Bookerman won't win :( but RVD is cool.

[BLACKHEART]

I don't think either challenger will win. I have a feeling a face push might start for Booker T tonight or really soon.

Raven will beat Buh Buh Ray oldschool style.

[Andy Mancini]

I've also heard that "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and Eddy Geurrero is coming back tonight. Tonight's show should be really good.
What?
Entertaining.
What?
Enjoyable.
What?
Not vomit inducing.
What?
(Sorry, but that is so much fun to write in a stupid sort of way...)

[JohnStewart-GL]

It was actually good.
The Buh Buh Raven match was good. the most hardcore match we've had in a while.
The Undertaker HHH promo was good. does anyone besides me et tired of hhh taking his shirt off everytime he does something. Not everyone is all wowed by his muscles. But i liked that undertaker made him wait.
Eddie's return was nice. He hasn't missed a beat.
And well the WWF has a new female heel...Molly.

[The Game]

I was impressed with the show, actually. It's been a dry spell of good WWF TV, but I thouroughly enjoyed tonight's show. I LOVED Austin's April Fool's remark at the end- totally awesome.

The matches weren't terrific, but the other segments were entertaining, and everything worked well for what it was- the opening show for RAW.

Love the new set- very sweet.

Glad to see Eddy Guerrero back again- RVD vs. Guerrero is a match I defintley want to see. The master of the frog splash... Kinda like Edge vs. Rhyno for the master of the spear one year ago. Both are great wrestlers, and that should be a great match (assuming of course they do meet at Backlash).

No too impressed with Triple H facing Undertaker at Backlash, but that could be good, I guess, I mean, their match at WM X-7 was awesome, so who knows. I like Bradshaw and Kane vs. the nWo, we migh see that on Raw next week.

One thing that is already evident in this one roster's show a week thing, is that every show seems more important and more exciting- the shows between PPVs are cut in half.

Most people think the Smackdown roster is better, but I was impressed with what I saw tonight. I can't wait baby- I'm enjoying this roster split.

-The Game

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by The Game
I was impressed with the show, actually. It's been a dry spell of good WWF TV, but I thouroughly enjoyed tonight's show. I LOVED Austin's April Fool's remark at the end- totally awesome.

The matches weren't terrific, but the other segments were entertaining, and everything worked well for what it was- the opening show for RAW.

Love the new set- very sweet.

Glad to see Eddy Guerrero back again- RVD vs. Guerrero is a match I defintley want to see. The master of the frog splash... Kinda like Edge vs. Rhyno for the master of the spear one year ago. Both are great wrestlers, and that should be a great match (assuming of course they do meet at Backlash).

No too impressed with Triple H facing Undertaker at Backlash, but that could be good, I guess, I mean, their match at WM X-7 was awesome, so who knows. I like Bradshaw and Kane vs. the nWo, we migh see that on Raw next week.

One thing that is already evident in this one roster's show a week thing, is that every show seems more important and more exciting- the shows between PPVs are cut in half.

Most people think the Smackdown roster is better, but I was impressed with what I saw tonight. I can't wait baby- I'm enjoying this roster split.

-The Game
How will they handle ppvs?

[SampiHBK00]

It's really a shame Regal has been demoted to jobbing to Spike Duddly. Regal is the best mat wrestler in the company, and one of the best overall. He desurves to be higher on the card.

[JTurner954]

Don't be surprised if Booker T is on the injured list. RVD almost broke Booker T's face with that frog splash (it sickens me that people cheer this moron). Great to see Eddy back (If you want to see the proper way to do a frog splash, watch Eddy's).

I'm disappointed that Austin signed to Raw, and I don't understand why he gave Flair the stunner. Two things; The new Kane theme stinked and Jeff Hardy looked like Pippi Longstalking with green hair. Anyway, good show.

Hit of the night: Molly and that paddle.

[Djm912]

I did notice that RVD frog splashed my boy Booker's face. That had me worried. Here's to praying that he's not injured and he does get the face turn that everyone is expecting.

Buh Buh Ray winning the Hardcore Title fits him well, but I really don't know what else to say about it.

I saw Raw as a whole as pretty enjoyable. HHH taking off his shirt really wasn't needed, but that promo was enjoyable. Plus, since Rock wasn't involved I could really enjoy it. Was it just me or was that Undisputed Championship small. It kinda reminded me of the Light Heavyweight Title

I think Austin belonged on Raw. The Raw roster was kinda hurtin' until now. I think they only did it so Jim Ross can scream "STONE COLD! STONE COLD! STONE COLD!"

I missed Molly Holly and Brock Lesnar, though. :(

I've always liked Molly. I keep hearing that Brock can do a Shooting Star Press(!), I wanna see that.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
[COLOR=red This would obviously mean that the current WWF and WCW World titles that Triple H and Chris Jericho have been carrying around during their championship reigns would be removed from WWF television and replaced with the new single title representing the Undisputed champion status. [/COLOR]

Well, that turned out to be true. I don't like it though. I think carrying the two belts comes across as far more impressive. And if you combine the two into one belt, there's no point in calling it the "undisputed" championship. You can't dispute it, because one belt can only be held by one person. I just don't see the point.

[Andy Mancini]

I must say, you guys are a lot more intellectual, less hypocritical, and generally more positive than the "smart" wrestling fans on most boards. As far the PPV situation goes, I've heard that the WWF has added four more to the schedule, bringing the total up to 16.

[JTurner954]

Another thing: Was it just me or was that crowd kinda dead?? During the Hardcore title match, it was so quiet.

And regarding Lesner, everything he has done means absolutely NOTHING. Running in and doing a couple of powerbombs doesn't make him a great wrestler. Why hasn't this guy had a match yet so he can prove himself (I'm hoping he has more brains than Goldberg as well)?

[BLACKHEART]

First of all it was really odd watching wrestling and not seeing my man Kurt Angle

Second of all why do we split the federation to give people more tv time and bring back someone with a poor attitude and horrible work ethnic. He uses Rob Van Dam's 5 star and I've never seen him have a good match. Hopefully he doesn't get that horrible Latino Heat music back. Whose next Konnan?

What's with all the Rob Van Dam hate? That's the best match he's had in the WWF. He took time out of the match to taunt. I haven't seen him do the RVD hand signal in a match forever. He got the kick from the top rope off. He got a lot of his moves off he's not been getting. It's not his fault Booker T didn't fall right and position his body for the 5 star frog splash. RVD does a great job getting his body ready so Booker T should have done the same. I really wish he would have hit him with the VanDominator when he got up from the spin-a-rooni.

Triple H. Where do we start? The shirt thing. He's the Hulk. Someone must like his chest. Maybe he just think he is cool. I really wish Triple H would have never came back.

Austin gave Flair the Stunner for one simple reason. DTA Austin's not going to kiss up to anybody. Besides he had a couple weeks off so his knee was feeling better. Give him another week and he'll be hobbling and trying to get the Stunner off.

You had to know Trish was going to get jumped after her match with Terri or during it. Why? It always happens whenever Terri wrestles.

Is anyone else sick of X-Pac yet?

[JTurner954]

SLIPKNOT, I am disappointing with you.

Look at the difference between RVD's splash and Eddie's splash last night. Eddie's was NO WHERE near the guy's face (yet you say he was a poor workrate). It doesn't matter where Booker T is laying, Van Dam had control of his body and should have known how to protect the guy and land (heck, RVD even turns his body halfway sometimes). So don't say it's Booker T's fault. Van Dam didn't bring his arms in so it's his fault. It's called protecting the other guy;RVD didn't do that.

[BLACKHEART]

Van Dam is one of the best wrestlers in the world. His style has been somewhat limited by the WWF. Also wrestlers aren't wanting to put over Van Dam's moves out of fear of loseing their spot.

I didn't notice Van Dam landing on Booker's face.

Van's Dam's splash is a lot more impressing. He has hang time and he can turn his body around in mid air to land on the guy correctly.

[JTurner954]

Then I will say it again: Watch the tape.

[BLACKHEART]

Accidents happen. I still wouldn't put all of the blame on to RVD if Booker T is hurt. Besides Booker T is a big tough guy. I'm sure he can take a little hit to the chin.

[JTurner954]

Are you even watching the right match?? The right side of RVD's body (including part of his chest) lands right on Booker T's nose (put it on slow mo and you see it clear as crystal). And for the proper way, watch Eddie. Unlike RVD, Eddie doesn't spread out his arms;he completely protected RVD's head;in fact, he was no where near RVD's head.

"Accidents happen" (like all those other times he injured people?)?? It isn't RVD's fault that he landed on the face pf Booker (who was perfectly still) ?? That reasoning sounds exactly like Rob Van Dam's careless attuitde. Watch it again.

[BLACKHEART]

Yeah I watched the match. I just didn't catch him landing on his face. I must have just wrote that off as match over and expected the pin. I might have been waiting for the RVD bounce and rib hold.

RVD's not careless. It's just his style. A lot of wrestlers don't know how to work his style. He's very active and uses a lot of innovations. You can't be lazy or laid back when wrestling him.

Like I say Booker T's a tough guy and I doubt he has suffered any real injuries as a result of this splash.

[JTurner954]

Like I said, don't be surprised if Booker is on the injured list. Plus, I said he ALMOST broke his face.

That attitude of his is careless. He has that smirk on his face when he points to himself, and does a lot of shrugs. I'm pretty sure that's just his gimmick. I would hope he he isn't like that in real life.

One more thing: He shouldn't do that kick from the turnbuckle. so often. If he keeps doing it, he's going to break his ankle from landing (Owen Hart had this happen to him during a match with Bradshaw). In fact, didn't he have surgery already?? I kind of liked him in the late 1990's with that Mr. Monday Night thing with Lawler, but now he needs to be more careful with what he does (and how he does it).

[Djm912]

I'm not going to pathetically support Booker T like some sucka.

I like RVD, always have. In ECW he was God(with apologies to Taz). But I did notice him landing on Booker's face with the 5 star.
That hasn't happened before. RVD can turn around in mid-air, but maybe Booker was just too far away. I really hope Booker wasn't hurt. Both of those guys could really go far on Raw right now, I wanna see them both blow up, not just Booker.

People have always been comparing RVD and Eddy Guerrero's Frog Splash. It'll never end. I think both of them do it fine although RVD can do it higher.
I don't agree about what Slipknot(?) said about Eddy's workrate. He's great in the ring and I've seen him put on quite a few great matches in WCW and WWF. And about his personal problems, think about William Regal and Scott Hall. Vinnie Mac hired them, right?

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
Triple H. Where do we start? The shirt thing. He's the Hulk. Someone must like his chest. Maybe he just think he is cool. I really wish Triple H would have never came back.

Ok, but what about those of us that are fans of the guy? If HHH never came back, you'd be happy, but I wouldn't. Is it necessary to bash him every week? I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, but considering I'm a HHH fan, you can understand how I feel when I see him being bashed in every wwf talkback. We know you hate him, so could we just leave it at that? I'm not trying to be rude, but I just don't see the point in ripping into him every week.

Also, what do you guys think of the future of the nwo? I like the idea behind it, but like someone said in a past talkback, they just don't come across as a threat. When Bradshaw tore into them backstage, in return he got one boot to the face and one chair shot, while JR's going on about it being a vicious three on one assault. Not really. And then after the X-Pac/Kane match, Bradshaw and Kane clean house, sending the the nwo on the run yet again. They're certainly not being portrayed like a poison that'll destroy the WWF. Any chance of them rising out of this anytime soon?

[JTurner954]

One thing about HHH: I wasn't excited when he won the title at WM. Why?? Because HHH did the SAME EXACT THING as HBK in 1996.

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by DarkAngel


Ok, but what about those of us that are fans of the guy? If HHH never came back, you'd be happy, but I wouldn't. Is it necessary to bash him every week? I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, but considering I'm a HHH fan, you can understand how I feel when I see him being bashed in every wwf talkback. We know you hate him, so could we just leave it at that? I'm not trying to be rude, but I just don't see the point in ripping into him every week.

Also, what do you guys think of the future of the nwo? I like the idea behind it, but like someone said in a past talkback, they just don't come across as a threat. When Bradshaw tore into them backstage, in return he got one boot to the face and one chair shot, while JR's going on about it being a vicious three on one assault. Not really. And then after the X-Pac/Kane match, Bradshaw and Kane clean house, sending the the nwo on the run yet again. They're certainly not being portrayed like a poison that'll destroy the WWF. Any chance of them rising out of this anytime soon?
the WCW version was much moore of a poison. but i think they'll get better,

[TheScarecrow]

RAW was an okay show, but this split still needs a lot of work. Aside from a new set and theme music, not much changed as far as the way the show is presented.

Also, X-Pac should NOT be main eventing at this point, nWo or not. His bronko buster seriously needs to be put out to pasture, and he needs to get rid of those damn shorts. Putting him in the main with Kane was a stupid decision, imo. And I guess the nWo angle is pretty much dead now. Some poison. :rolleyes:

And why the hell did Vince get all that TV time? I know he was there to sign Austin for Smackdown, but given that its not supposed to be his show anymore, he shouldn't be in so many segments. I mean did we really NEED to see him talking on a cell phone in a limousine? I guess as far as the McMahon's are concerned, the more things change (Stephanie's departure), the more they stay the same.

RVD/Booker was an alright match, and freaking EDDY looked awesome with that powerbomb and frogsplash. Too bad his awesome run-in was ruined by Vince's lust for as much TV time as possible. A RVD/EDDY feud is going to result in some great PPV matches though.

I loved seeing Mighty Molly shed her superhero persona and transform into a super villain (man, she looked intense too, and very sexy I might add! :D ), but was the Paddle On A Poll match necessary? For one thing, paddles don't break over peoples heads that easily, and as a general rule, {insert object here} on a poll matches stink. I mean couldn't Trish and Terri have a regular match, and then have Molly attack Trish with a chair or something afterwards? On a side note, Terri really needs to start eating again, as she is looking more and more repulsive with every rib of hers that becomes visible.

Brock Lesnar is great, but these run-ins are going to get old fast. It's time for his debut match, and for Hayman's voice to be heard. Can't wait for that shooting star press too, although he shouldn't do it this early in the game!

As for Triple H and his match with The Undertaker at Blacklash, I am about as enthusiastic about it as a Batman fan would be if forced to watch the directors cut of Batman & Robin with Joel Shumacher. That's really all I am going to say about that, considering how sensitive you Triple H fans are around here.

The new championship belt looks nice though.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by TheScarecrow
That's really all I am going to say about that, considering how sensitive you Triple H fans are around here.

If I were to post every week that "Triple H is a god, he absolutely rules" I'm sure you and others that dislike HHH would begin to get annoyed soon. Maybe I'm being over-sensitive, but I don't think I'm mistaken in saying that those of you that dislike HHH are being strong in your opinion. Right?

I guess I feel that if you don't like HHH, you're not going to like many segments he's in. That being the case, why bring it up week after week? If there's something new to add, ok, but it seems like the same thing every week: Discuss the various segments and angles and when you get to a HHH segment, make it clear that he's useless and never should have come back. That seems to be the trend. I just don't think there's a need to take a shot at the guy everytime there's a wwf talkback.

[JTurner954]

Originally posted by TheScarecrow
[B]
Brock Lesnar is great, but these run-ins are going to get old fast. It's time for his debut match, and for Hayman's voice to be heard. B]

Finally, someone agrees with me with Brock having a much needed debut match. As far as Heyman goes, he better not be there for long. If I hear him yelling "BROCK,BROCK,BROCK", I am going to .... well, words cannot explain it.

[TheScarecrow]

Originally posted by DarkAngel
[B]If I were to post every week that "Triple H is a god, he absolutely rules" I'm sure you and others that dislike HHH would begin to get annoyed soon.

Not really. You would just be expressing your opinion on someone, and you seem to do it an in intelligent manner. I wouldn't agree with what you would be saying, but I am a big enough man not to get annoyed over it. If that were the case, I would stop reading your posts on the subject. It's not like I am forced to look at this stuff by gunpoint, you know. ;)


Maybe I'm being over-sensitive, but I don't think I'm mistaken in saying that those of you that dislike HHH are being strong in your opinion. Right?

The truth is, it's not so much Triple H I dislike rather then the way the WWF portrays and uses the character, and has done so for some time.

I didn't agree with the Wrestlemania push he got simply because he didn't do anything to earn it. Coming back from a major quad injury like that is impressive, but doesn't make me want to pay $40 see him win the Undisputed Championship at the main event of the biggest show of the year.

Given how much of a heel he was when he got injured, I don't see why I should root for the guy's character to be successful just because he got injured during a mishap in the ring.

The basic problem that caused me to sour on Hunter is that the WWF and Triple H seemed to have wanted it both ways during 2000, 2001, and 2002.

When Triple H was a heel, he rarely jobbed, even during the blow off matches where the heel puts over the babyface (WrestleMania 2000) or other times where the face going over was needed (Austin at No Way Out 2001, who needed momentum going into his main event with The Rock). I lost interest in him and the angles he was involved in because of this. His Two-Man Power Trip stable with Austin resulted in boring television because the two had to beat up everyone with chairs and leather belts to make up for the fact that their pairing made no sense, and neither did Austin's heel turn, but that is another subject for another time.

During his babyface teases, and eventual crossover to the good side this year, it was the same old story. Triple H makes everyone he's feuding with look weak and inferior to him at nearly every turn. If he wasn't squashing Kurt Angle week after week, he was doing the same thing to Jericho, or someone else. No angles he was involved in had any drama whatsoever.

In both cases, it really made for some boring television because Triple H would look superior in some fashion nearly everytime he appeared on Raw or Smackdown or whatever.

Triple H CANNOT have it both ways. He isn't a New God like Jack Kirby's Darkseid, nor is he Superman in a world without kryptonite. He is a human being made out of flesh and bone. He can't look like everyone's superior all the time and still expect me to be entertained.


I guess I feel that if you don't like HHH, you're not going to like many segments he's in. That being the case, why bring it up week after week?

Because Triple H is a part of the show every week, and has a big part in it considering he's the champ. Hey man, I am just commenting on what's going on and how I feel about it.

Are all the comments the same? Maybe.

But maybe it's because Triple H does the same thing every week. Cuts the same "I... am... THE GAME!!!!" promos and pulls out the same moveset during his matches, which btw hasn't lived up to his "I am that damn good" mantra in over a year. Aside from Angle, he hasn't had a really memorable match that has lived up to his Iron Man match or his series with Foley. Not exactly the kind of trend I expect from the self-proclaimed best in the business.

Which brings up the question: what exactly is so great about the guy nowadays anyway?

His workrate is a joke compared to what it used to be back in 2001, and aside from a few funny lines every now and then, his LONG catchphrase filled promos are boring (at lest The Rock's catchphrases and the way he delivers them are entertaining).

So it brings up the question of why you like the guy so much.


If there's something new to add, ok, but it seems like the same thing every week: Discuss the various segments and angles and when you get to a HHH segment, make it clear that he's useless and never should have come back.

On the contrary, I never said he shouldn't have come back. I just said he shouldn't have gotten pushed so hard down my throat when he did come back. You really shouldn't misquote people like that. ;)

But anyway, that is my two cents on the subject.

[The Game]

I actually like RVD, but it's common knowledge he's a careless and sloppy worker- last year around September to October he injured Austin, Rock, Angle, and Jericho twice during various matches. He works stiff, and dangerously. I'd think twice before stepping into the ring with him- only Billy Gunn would be more of a hazzard.

I love Triple H (see the user name) but I'll be the first to admit he is way lamer as a face than as a heel. Bring back the evil, sledgehammer totting Triple H. This new guy isn't as cool...

-The Game

[JTurner954]

Originally posted by The Game
I actually like RVD, but it's common knowledge he's a careless and sloppy worker- last year around September to October he injured Austin, Rock, Angle, and Jericho twice during various matches. He works stiff, and dangerously.

That is exactly why I hate RVD. I don't understand how anyone can cheer that kind of guy.

But I will say this: If he ever faces Goldberg (or that Harvard Chris from Tough Enough), then i would cheer for Van Dam.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by TheScarecrow
So it brings up the question of why you like the guy so much.

I guess this is why I've been upset. When you ask why I like a guy so much, it seems to indicate that there is no reason for doing so. It's as though it's fact that Triple H is problematic for all the reasons you mentioned. It isn't really.

I've observed Triple H in the same situations you mentioned above, but have come away from those moments with completely different conclusions. Maybe I'm wrong, but before the last couple weeks, I never thought I was in the minority in liking Triple H. There's no doubt that WWF television is suffering right now and that many decisions have been questionable. But I've never felt Triple H was to blame. And when I do have an opportunity to watch Raw or Smackdown, it's appeared to me that HHH's pops were among the biggest of the night. I've taken that to mean that the guy still has a huge fan base. I'm not saying this as an argument, just as an observation. It's possible I've been wrong in this interpretation. Have I been? Do most dislike him?

[BLACKHEART]

Dark Angel I'm not the one that started the Triple H bashing. I'll go ahead and tell you my problem though. As soon as he started sleeping with the bosses daughter to lock up his poisition with the company he lost all of my respect. I don't want to see him ripping his shirt off and beating everyone and making grand comebacks to win world titles at Wrestlemania. Chris Jericho has earned a title with blood, sweat, and tears.

JTurner

The smirk and arrogance is what makes Rob Van Dam "one of a kind" You got to love the attitude. He's been doing that kick for many, many years and he's not been hurt yet. He did have surgery on his leg which he injured in a jet-sky accident. It had nothing to do with wrestling. I *think* ECW made an angle with Rhino out of it. I don't remember if they said he broke the leg or it was a jet-sky accident. It was a jet-sky accident not something he did in the ring.

Rob Van Dam didn't injure Jericho, Angle, or Austin. He busted their lips open. In Austin's case he cut his forehead. Big deal, that kind of stuff happens. It's wrestling. What's a little blood? In ECW everyone bled and no one cried about it. It just goes to show that WWF stars like Austin and Angle are too prissy. This is wrestling. It's a man's game and a busted lip shouldn't be a reason to cry.

A week before RVD busted open Austin, the Undertaker did the same thing with a stiff chair shot. No one cried about the Undertaker doing this. Why? He's been there for years. He's got a spot. RVD's new and they were afraid he would take their spot because he has more talent in one of his legs than Austin has in his weak body. He's got to worry about his knees giving out on him.

[JTurner954]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT

The smirk and arrogance is what makes Rob Van Dam "one of a kind" You got to love the attitude.

One of a kind?? Absolutely. Love that attitude?? That's disgusting. Why should I cheer a person with a huge ego (and a track record for injuring people)? Words can not explain how disgusted I am by that.



A week before RVD busted open Austin, the Undertaker did the same thing with a stiff chair shot. No one cried about the Undertaker doing this. Why? He's been there for years. He's got a spot.

Isn't it ironic that they put in Undertaker AFTER he started injuring the main talent?? There's a BIG difference between bleeding from a chairshot and bleeding from a wrestling maneuver. I was prefectly fine with RVD in hardcore matches because bleeding is expected. But when you're still doing it in regular matches, it's a problem.


RVD's new and they were afraid he would take their spot because he has more talent in one of his legs than Austin has in his weak body. He's got to worry about his knees giving out on him.[/B]

Don't be surprised if after doing that backkick from the turnbuckle, the ankle on his landing foot gives out. He shouldn't do that so often. And just because Austin has a bad neck doesn't mean he can't call spots (it's the same mind) so don't go there.

As you can see, I'm into the older days where moves meant something (and things weren't so "extreme"), so my comments mean nothing to today's standards.
How sad.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
Dark Angel I'm not the one that started the Triple H bashing. I'll go ahead and tell you my problem though. As soon as he started sleeping with the bosses daughter to lock up his poisition with the company he lost all of my respect.

If that's why HHH hooked up with Steph, I can certainly understand that. The thing is, I don't know if that's what his motive was. I don't feel right about making such assumptions. His involvement with Steph could be from genuine interest in her.

[TheScarecrow]

Originally posted by DarkAngel
I guess this is why I've been upset. When you ask why I like a guy so much, it seems to indicate that there is no reason for doing so.

You haven't told me the reason why YOU like him though, you just repeat the fact that he keeps getting loud pops. That can't be the reason you like him, right? There has to be more to it then that, right?

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by TheScarecrow

You haven't told me the reason why YOU like him though, you just repeat the fact that he keeps getting loud pops. That can't be the reason you like him, right? There has to be more to it then that, right?

Sure. Like said, the only reason I mentioned the pops was as an observation. From you words, I'm guessing you're thinking "Why could he possibly like HHH?" I only mention the pops as evidence that there must be something there to like or they wouldn't be so high. And again, maybe I've misinterpreted that.

Specifically: I think he cuts great promos. In the ring, whatever he does, he sells extremely well, whether it's backing away in fear before one of the top faces, dismantling someone in the ring, taking a punch, showing anger at betrayal, or shock. He's gotten great response, and done well, as both a heel and a face. Character and story-wise, I've loved the dominant persona we've seen from him and his rise to power. I've been a fan of DX and liked seeing him as leader. I thought his fueds with Austin and Vince during his first title reign were great. At that point, I actually hated his guts, and was tuning in every week just to see who'd kick his ass next. That grew into an appreciation of what he was doing. On a minor more superficial note, I've also loved his entrance. His current entrance music by motorhead is great, the lighting effects are perfect, and HHH has used them to great effect.

[BLACKHEART]

What has Triple H done since returning that is great? Don't think I am attacking you DarkAngel. I think you are very smart and I have nothing against you.

He's been back how long? He is beating everyone. He won the rumble. That totally ticked me off. He won the world title at Wrestlemania. Sure Triple H has done things in the past. I used to be a Triple H fan, but like I said before since he started sleeping with the bosses daughter I don't care for him. Wrestling is very political. Sure Stephanie is hot, that's just a bonus. He was in "love" with Chyna.

During this he saw people just breaking into the WWF (Rock) rising to superstardom. That had to be eating at him. Steve Austin comes to the WWF and makes wrestling big again. This had to eat at him. Sure Triple H is a talent. He's also a man with desires and dreams. He wanted to be in the main event. He wants everyone talking about him. So he goes out and hooks up with Stephanie.

How long after Summerslam a few years ago when Austin refused to job to Triple H. Instead they made it a 3 way Dance and Mankind won the world title. Triple H beat him the next day.

I was one of the people who thought Triple H should have beat Austin. Austin called the shots. Triple H realized that he was never going to call the shots till he had an edge that Austin nor the Rock had... Stephanie.

If he Triple H busted his tail to get Chris Jericho's title it would be a different story. Without the big heel Triple H what did the WWF do? They went to Chris Jericho and I think he did a heck of a job. I'd rather watch a Jericho match then a Triple H match.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
During this he saw people just breaking into the WWF (Rock) rising to superstardom. That had to be eating at him. Steve Austin comes to the WWF and makes wrestling big again. This had to eat at him. Sure Triple H is a talent. He's also a man with desires and dreams. He wanted to be in the main event. He wants everyone talking about him. So he goes out and hooks up with Stephanie.

In my opinion, HHH earned main event status during his first two title reigns in the fall of '99. It had nothing to do with who he was sleeping with but with what he was doing on the shows and ppvs. What he did then was no less than anything Rock or Austin has done.

I haven't said that he's done anything brilliant since his return, but I had no problem with him winning the rumble or wrestlemania. Rock and Austin have both had many title reigns, but have you complained when either of them win a wrestlemania or gain the belt again? Jericho's great. I've never had a problem with him like a lot of people have. But he had held the belt for a while. I expected he would lose it to someone by Wrestlemania. That he lost it to HHH doesn't seem problematic to me.

As a whole, WWF has been lacking for the past year. But to me, HHH, Angle, Rock, and other top stars have still been as good as can be under the poor storylines. I don't think I could put the blame on any one of the them for the WWF's problems.

[BLACKHEART]

I would have liked to have seen an Angle vs. Jericho match for the WWF championship.

[The Game]

Umm.... Angle and Jericho are both heels...

I don't see why you care that Trips won after coming back from an injury and its so much so fast- I would have to assume it also bothered you when Stone Cold won the title at WM X-7 last year after being back from his injury for such a short time? The "come back from injury" angle is one that worked with Trips and Stone Cold, and it's certainly not like Triple H didn't earn his spot beforehand.

Saying Triple H is where he is now because he was doing the nasty with Steph is naive. He was a bonefied main-eventer and former world champ before they started dating, and was the best heel the company had seen in years.

I want to see the evil Trips back, but I can't see why you guys won't cut the guy some slack...

-The Game

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by The Game
Umm.... Angle and Jericho are both heels...

I don't see why you care that Trips won after coming back from an injury and its so much so fast- I would have to assume it also bothered you when Stone Cold won the title at WM X-7 last year after being back from his injury for such a short time? The "come back from injury" angle is one that worked with Trips and Stone Cold, and it's certainly not like Triple H didn't earn his spot beforehand.

Saying Triple H is where he is now because he was doing the nasty with Steph is naive. He was a bonefied main-eventer and former world champ before they started dating, and was the best heel the company had seen in years.

I want to see the evil Trips back, but I can't see why you guys won't cut the guy some slack...

-The Game
I coulda sworn he had his first world title reign with steph. but i guess i was wrong

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by The Game
Umm.... Angle and Jericho are both heels...


Yeah, true. That might not have worked too well. But would be great is HHH vs Angle. They might be the two best in the company right now. What I'd really like to see is an angle involving HHH and the nwo. And bring HBK back and reunite DX.

[The Game]

Originally posted by JohnStewart-GL

I coulda sworn he had his first world title reign with steph. but i guess i was wrong

No, I'm talking about when they started dating in real life. It doesn't make a difference, cuz Trips won the title first in August '99, before he first was with Steph on screen around December '99. Not sure when they started dating off screen, but I think it was around late 2000/early 2001.

-The Game

[JTurner954]

The only thing I didn't like about HHH is that he just dumped Chyna instead of talking to her (on the Howard Stern show, HHH didn't even deny anything Chyna said about the breakup).

Besides that, I have no problem with the guy. The reason I didn't like the whole Royal Rumble win to WM title win was because Shawn Michaels did it the same way (even with a guy who faced him for the title shot one month before WM,just like HHH did). It's probably hard to turn HHH now since people are cheering him for his comeback. After all, look how long it took Austin to be a heel at Wrestlemania when he came back (5 months was it?).

WWF has its slow times and fast times and they just finished an experiment with this whole Draft outcome. Give them time to recover.

[BLACKHEART]

The thing is Steve Austin hasn't slept with Stephanie to get where he is. He used swear words to get the crowd to pop. Austin came up with a gimic and image that worked and people got behind it. No way can Triple H do for the WWF what Austin or Hulk Hogan have...

Speaking of Hulk Hogan. I've read that he will take the Undertaker's place at Backlash in the world title match. You want to see Triple H as a heel again? He's not going to be cheered when he faces Hulk Hogan. No matter what, Rock is a bigger face than Triple H and they booed him when he faced Hogan. This might not turn him heel, but it's going to move it along in the right direction cause Hogan's getting big again.

Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin have both shaped wrestling to what it is today. There is no way that Triple H would have the same impact ever as these two men.

Sure Triple H is big, but what's that matter? He's not a great wrestler. He never has been a great wrestler. He has a burning desire which I will not deny. He's worked to be where he is only he had to take a shortcut to the top instead of earning it like Steve Austin has done.

I've been a Steve Austin fan since he was "Stunning" Steve Austin. I was happy that he got his chance to be a champion. I figured he was just one of those guys I liked that would always be a mid carder.

So to answer your question, I actually don't remember how I felt when Austin won the title after coming back from an injury. It wasn't the same as Triple H. Austin was in the peek of his career when he got injured. He worked very hard to get where he was and didn't let the injury stop him. Triple H just say hey Vince it's idea to give me the title. It will bring in ratings.

[TheScarecrow]

Originally posted by The Game
I don't see why you care that Trips won after coming back from an injury and its so much so fast- I would have to assume it also bothered you when Stone Cold won the title at WM X-7 last year after being back from his injury for such a short time?

Austin feuded with Rikishi shortly after he returned. He was NOWHERE NEAR the World Title picture when he returned.

It took MONTHS of getting his timing back and putting on good matches again before they gave him the win at the Rumble and the belt at WM X-7, and of course they screwed it all up when they turned him heel even though it was bad timing and the angle they used made very little sense.


The "come back from injury" angle is one that worked with Trips and Stone Cold, and it's certainly not like Triple H didn't earn his spot beforehand.

He didn't do a damn thing to deserve his current top spot (I am not disputing his spot in 2000). His return in January was hyped to ridiculous levels. As a babyface, Triple H is nowhere near the draw that Rock and Austin were during their peak babyface reigns.

Trips has done great numbers during his feuds with Foley and Rock in 2000, but aside from some good pops (which are no bigger then what Rock, Austin, RVD, and even Hogan are getting right now), he isn't exactly money right now.

I would chalk that up to badly booked storylines, but I also would chalk that up to in-ring and microphone performances by Trips that aren't exactly special. Nowhere near the level that someone given the same push or someone being called the "best in the business" should be at, in my opinion.


Saying Triple H is where he is now because he was doing the nasty with Steph is naive. He was a bonefied main-eventer and former world champ before they started dating, and was the best heel the company had seen in years.

It wasn't until Foley put him over that Trips started getting to that level. The WWF wanted Trips in the main event because at the time, there was no one else who could fill that spot. They couldn't go back to UT/Austin matches because that feud was played out. They needed Hunter to get over because if he didn't, they would've been in trouble.


I want to see the evil Trips back, but I can't see why you guys won't cut the guy some slack...

Why should I cut him some slack?

[BLACKHEART]

I've got to go with Scarecrow. Austin been hurt so many times I thought you were talking about another injury he had.