The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes "Masters of Evil" Talkback (Spoilers)

[James Harvey]

Discuss this all-new episode of The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes debuting today at 10:00am (ET) on Disney XD!

http://marvel.toonzone.net/avengersemh/talkback.jpg (http://marvel.toonzone.net/avengersemh/)The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes "Masters of Evil"
Episode Premiere Date: December 5th, 2010
Zemo! Enchantress! Executioner! Abomination! Wonder Man! Crimson Dynamo! Individually they are the most powerful Super-Villains on the planet. Together, they are unstoppable. Avengers Mansion is laid siege and one by one, the Avengers fall. And with the most powerful of them defeated, what hope do Black Panther and Hawkeye have?

Comments?

Mod Note: Please keep discussion civilized and on-topic, please. Thank you.

[trance2009]

NIce nod to the X-Mansion in that paper the cabbie was reading.

Cool to see all of them in the final battle pose in the intro. This one was very well done overall, the giant battle between all of them towards the end got intense. Hulk wanting to smash the crap out of Enchantress for sending him to Asgard was hilarity.

[dmxx116]

Now that the team together now this is a great start to the second half of the first season, And Loki is setting something big.

[Eivion]

Fun episode. I really liked Black Panther and Hawkeye's interactions. I'm happy to see with all the build to the Masters of Evil that this wasn't actually the blow off episode which was worrying me for a bit.


NIce nod to the X-Mansion in that paper the cabbie was reading.
I missed this. Anyone have a pic?

[macattack]

I saw the nod to the X-Mansion too. :anime:It's at the very beginning of the episode for those who DVRed or recorded it.

I also found it amusing that the Hulk found a way to (presumably) smash the Frost Giants. And, of course, his hatred for the Enchantress is still there, and still strong.

In all, though, I'm slightly underwhelmed by this one. No real development was made other now the argument can be made that the Masters can't simply outright smash the Avengers. The Masters will now have to resort to trickery and outsmarting the Avengers instead of fighting them directly. Also, they had to have learned that it is not smart to leave any Avenger alive once they've been defeated, though I don't know if that'll stick because the show's TV-Y7FV. I also think the Enchantress is underestimating her cohorts significantly and that could bite her and Loki in the ass.

Okay, there was one other piece of development. People are losing confidence in Iron Man's leadership, which points to Captain America taking over the reigns eventually. Both Hawkeye and Black Panther seem to favor Captain America over Tony Stark, and after two near-failures in a row (Gamma World and now this), the others have to be losing confidence in Tony too. The fact that Tony pretty much had to run with his tail between his legs in the middle of the battle to get one of his suits couldn't have helped.

[Gold Guy]

Well, this was another very good episode, with the Masters of Evil finally making their move. This shows that the Avengers are more vulnerable when they aren't together.

I can't wait to see what will happen next week, but I think that if Loki tries to betray the others, well, they won't like that.

[Webbed-Wonder]

Great episode. I laughed when Hawkeye said "I'm not sure if I want to be part of a team I have to save every week.", and Loki at the end was cool!

[Maniaxe]

Great espisode! I agree that Tony's leadership is flagging, I can see two possible outcomes.
1. Tony realizes this and begins actively asking Cap for help.
2. Cap does take over.
I can stand with either one.

Next episode looks even better! Captain marvel and the Kree!

[GWOtaku]

The team is all together now, so we have a suitable threat to take it on right away. Solid idea and cool episode, though Hulk fans got the short end of the stick I guess.

I like how Hawkeye's dumping on the team's problems until Black Panther points out to him that he had no criticism for Captain America. Heh. :) Nah Clint, no leading for you.


I also think the Enchantress is underestimating her cohorts significantly and that could bite her and Loki in the ass.


Yeah, I can see this being the major Achilles heel in the end. This is Thor's weakness as well, too easily falling into a "thou art a mere mortal!" attitude that makes him blind to an imminent threat until it's too late.

[RoyalRubble]

NIce nod to the X-Mansion in that paper the cabbie was reading.


I missed this. Anyone have a pic?


I saw the nod to the X-Mansion too. http://www.toonzone.net/forums/images/smilies/anime.gifIt's at the very beginning of the episode for those who DVRed or recorded it.

Not only an allusion to the X-Mansion, but also the Baxter Building! Anyone have any idea who that guy in the pic is supposed to be?

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt281/GreenTownEmerald33/bscap0016.jpg

And the dog food commercial the Hulk was watching advertised "Kirby Kibble" :p

This was another great episode. Really intense fighting sequences and some more character development as well as we find out Loki is behind the Masters of Evil plan (though I suspected that since the beginning).

Once again, Thor had some great action scenes and another great line ("This card is troubling. Iron Man's technology is constantly making noises at me.")

I also thought it was interesting that Wonder Man wasn't really out to get revenge on Iron Man or the others; he was just working with Baron Zemo because he saved his life.

Really looking forward to the next episodes. Wonder what will happen next, now that "all the pieces are in place".

[Rick Jones]

The picture looks kind of like Ms. Forbes (http://marvel.toonzone.net/fanfourtas/episode/originpt2/03.jpg) to me.

Anybody else get a Justice Friends vibe from Hulk watching the tube ?

[GregX]

I enjoyed this, but at the same time, this episode cemented all of my problems with the series. "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes" is a good show, but it should be a great show. And nothing drives me nuts more than unfulfilled potential.

The writing on this show is no where near as sharp as it could be, and frankly as it should be. The dialogue is often atrocious. It needs work, and every time I watch an episode, I wish I was handed the script to take a red marker to it.

I just feel like this show is talking down to its audience, and no where is that feeling clearer than at the end of the episode. Why are they playing Loki as Enchantress's boss as if it is some kind of mystery? Who else would the Enchantress possibly be working for? This isn't even me bringing my comic book knowledge to the table... anyone who saw the micro-episodes knows it's him. Why obscure him in shadow? We all know it's him.

I still enjoy this more than the first season of "Justice League" and "X-Men Evolution" and I hope it improves with time.

[Maniaxe]

I enjoyed this, but at the same time, this episode cemented all of my problems with the series. "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes" is a good show, but it should be a great show. And nothing drives me nuts more than unfulfilled potential.

The writing on this show is no where near as sharp as it could be, and frankly as it should be. The dialogue is often atrocious. It needs work, and every time I watch an episode, I wish I was handed the script to take a red marker to it.

I just feel like this show is talking down to its audience, and no where is that feeling clearer than at the end of the episode. Why are they playing Loki as Enchantress's boss as if it is some kind of mystery? Who else would the Enchantress possibly be working for? This isn't even me bringing my comic book knowledge to the table... anyone who saw the micro-episodes knows it's him. Why obscure him in shadow? We all know it's him.

I still enjoy this more than the first season of "Justice League" and "X-Men Evolution" and I hope it improves with time.

We have to remember that this is the Disney Channel, if this was on CN we probably wouldn't have this problem, but that's not likely to happen.

[GregX]

We have to remember that this is the Disney Channel, if this was on CN we probably wouldn't have this problem, but that's not likely to happen.

1. Disney XD, not Disney Channel. Both are completely separate networks.

2. This show was already well into production before the Disney/Marvel deal.

3. I really don't think the network is at all involved in the production team talking down to the audience. This is a writing issue. I know a lot of people who work in this business, and unless you're targeting pre-schoolers, you're not going to get notes telling you to dumb down your scripts. You may get content notes on things like violence, or adult situations, but not for dumbing down.

[Azrayel]

I liked this episode, but sometimes I wish the team wouldn't fall apart so quickly everytime I watch the begininng of it. I'd like to see a good fight before they lose the first time around against an enemy.

Couple things got me wondering, why is Zemo the leader of the group? Shouldn't it be Enchantress since she was the one recruiting people? I know the Masters of Evil is suppose to have Zemo as leader but a little change wouldn;t hurt the show considering in the show it's Enchantress idea to take on the Avenger's.

Also how did the Crimson Dynamo get in the team?

I liked the fight scene were both sides were running towards each other for combat. It had remined me of the opening of the 90's X-Men show.

[Maniaxe]

I liked this episode, but sometimes I wish the team wouldn't fall apart so quickly everytime I watch the begininng of it. I'd like to see a good fight before they lose the first time around against an enemy.

Couple things got me wondering, why is Zemo the leader of the group? Shouldn't it be Enchantress since she was the one recruiting people? I know the Masters of Evil is suppose to have Zemo as leader but a little change wouldn;t hurt the show considering in the show it's Enchantress idea to take on the Avenger's.

Also how did the Crimson Dynamo get in the team?

I liked the fight scene were both sides were running towards each other for combat. It had remined me of the opening of the 90's X-Men show.

Enchantress more than likely saw this as a way of manipulating them all.

Crimson Dynamo joined in the comic mini-series.

[AlgeaX]

I enjoyed this, but at the same time, this episode cemented all of my problems with the series. "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes" is a good show, but it should be a great show. And nothing drives me nuts more than unfulfilled potential.

I do enjoy this series a lot and this episode was a lot of fun but I do see where you're coming from. It's a very good show but it's yet to approch the greatness of say the better parts of Justice League or JLU. Then again it's only about thirteen episodes in and at that point Justice League was nowhere near the level of what it would eventually.

So I still have hope that the show will grow a beard (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tv+tropes+growing+the+beard&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLA_en) as the writing team get a better handle on these characters and their world.


I just feel like this show is talking down to its audience, and no where is that feeling clearer than at the end of the episode. Why are they playing Loki as Enchantress's boss as if it is some kind of mystery? Who else would the Enchantress possibly be working for? This isn't even me bringing my comic book knowledge to the table... anyone who saw the micro-episodes knows it's him. Why obscure him in shadow? We all know it's him.

Yeah, that bothered me too. It might have worked had Loki not shown up yet, but we've already seen him plotting with Amora and Skurge. We know it's Loki behind the Masters, we've known it's Loki since Some Assembly Required.

All that aside, there's still a lot to like about this episode. Baron Zemo was magnificently arrogant, especially when demanding that the frigging God of Thunder bow to him, that takes moxie. And I do like that Ant-Man is getting a lot of respect from the creative team.

[Eivion]

Thanks for the pic RoyalRubble.

3. I really don't think the network is at all involved in the production team talking down to the audience. This is a writing issue. I know a lot of people who work in this business, and unless you're targeting pre-schoolers, you're not going to get notes telling you to dumb down your scripts. You may get content notes on things like violence, or adult situations, but not for dumbing down.
I honestly can't understand where your coming from at all. The dialogue has been perfectly acceptable from what I've seen, and I can't really think of a moment where it was talking down to its viewers either. Keep in mind that the audience intended to watch the show isn't necessarily of your age either. I also think your complaint about Loki being obscured in the shadows is somewhat whiny to be honest. Its a minor quibble that really shouldn't be bothering you to the extent it seems it is. What exactly are you looking for with this show?

[AlgeaX]

Couple things got me wondering, why is Zemo the leader of the group? Shouldn't it be Enchantress since she was the one recruiting people? I know the Masters of Evil is suppose to have Zemo as leader but a little change wouldn;t hurt the show considering in the show it's Enchantress idea to take on the Avenger's.

I guessing that Enchantress simply recognises that Zemo is the best qualified to lead. I mean he is a charasmatic criminal mastermind and pretty much an evil Captain America. As long as he's following Loki agenda, she's probably happy to let him think he's in charge.

Oh, and because he's better then you! :p


Also how did the Crimson Dynamo get in the team?

Don't know, I can only assume they picked him up off screen at some point.

[M.O.D.O.K.]

The Crimson Dynamo's recruitment into the Masters of Evil is explained in the comic, but here's how it goes:

The Avengers track him down to Switzerland and defeat him. However, the Winter Guard, a team of Russian superheroes, want to seize Dynamo and take him back to face justice in Russia. Tony becomes paranoid and causes a fight between them. During the fight, Dynamo escapes, and when the heroes stop fighting, they notice his absence. In Germany, Ivan Vanko is repairing his armor, only to be approached by the Masters.

[AlgeaX]

I honestly can't understand where your coming from at all. The dialogue has been perfectly acceptable from what I've seen, and I can't really think of a moment where it was talking down to its viewers either. Keep in mind that the audience intended to watch the show isn't necessarily of your age either. I also think your complaint about Loki being obscured in the shadows is somewhat whiny to be honest. Its a minor quibble that really shouldn't be bothering you to the extent it seems it is. What exactly are you looking for with this show?

I can't presume to speak for GregX but I do take issue with the idea that just because a show is written for kids means it's okay for the writing to be sub-par. Kids are smarter then a lot of people give them credit for, they know when they're being talked down to and it will not earn you their respect.

Take the Loki thing for instance, most 6-11 year olds probably won't be versed in the minutia of Marvel lore. But at that age they're probably smart enough to figure out that the shadowy man in a green and yellow suit that Amora was talking to, is probably the same man in green and yellow she was talking to five episodes ago. And if kids start thinking the show has such a low opinion of their intelligence, they're going to start tuning out as soon as something better comes along.

Isn't a big part of the reason we enjoy shows like B:TAS so much because of their intelligent writing that appeals to all ages. Greg isn't really asking this show for anything DC animation hasn't been doing for over a decade now.

[W.C.Reaf]

I liked this episode. It was great seeing the entrance of the Masters of Evil reflecting the Avengers in the beginning of "Some Assembly Required". It was nice having a villain team-up not end with them losing because they can't do teamwork. We got to see them bicker and that they don't really want to be there except for their own agendas, but they didn't lose because of infighting. I hope the show keeps that up the next time the Masters appear.

I'm also really curious exactly how Enchantress' actions set the Avengers up for her and Loki's big plan. They didn't accomplish anything except show them they are vulnerable on their own.


I just feel like this show is talking down to its audience, and no where is that feeling clearer than at the end of the episode. Why are they playing Loki as Enchantress's boss as if it is some kind of mystery? Who else would the Enchantress possibly be working for? This isn't even me bringing my comic book knowledge to the table... anyone who saw the micro-episodes knows it's him. Why obscure him in shadow? We all know it's him.

That bugged me too. We know that she's working with Loki so there's no point hiding him unless it's not really Loki pulling the strings. I don't see the point in that since we've already had hints of Loki setting up a big plot in the micro episodes that hasn't come to fruition yet, so there's no reason to hide him. It's a bit odd.


I still enjoy this more than the first season of "Justice League" and "X-Men Evolution" and I hope it improves with time.

Yeah, I think this is the best first season a Marvel show has had in a while (excluding Spec Spidey, which was more of a Sony show). Most of the current Marvel shows have had rocky starts then improve or die.


The picture looks kind of like Ms. Forbes (http://marvel.toonzone.net/fanfourtas/episode/originpt2/03.jpg) to me.

It looks like a man to me. Anyone else get the Skrull reference in that pic as well?

[GregX]

I can't presume to speak for GregX but I do take issue with the idea that just because a show is written for kids means it's okay for the writing to be sub-par. Kids are smarter then a lot of people give them credit for, they know when they're being talked down to and it will not earn you their respect.

Take the Loki thing for instance, most 6-11 year olds probably won't be versed in the minutia of Marvel lore. But at that age they're probably smart enough to figure out that the shadowy man in a green and yellow suit that Amora was talking to, is probably the same man in green and yellow she was talking to five episodes ago. And if kids start thinking the show has such a low opinion of their intelligence, they're going to start tuning out as soon as something better comes along.

Isn't a big part of the reason we enjoy shows like B:TAS so much because of their intelligent writing that appeals to all ages. Greg isn't really asking this show for anything DC animation hasn't been doing for over a decade now.

You may not presume to speak for me, but you did a really good job of it. I think I should give you internet power of attorney for me, sometimes. ;)

But yeah, like you said, there are plenty of shows, as well as production teams that have produced great shows that are targeted at children without ever talking down to them, or the adults who are also watching.

Again, I never said I don't like the show, I do. I just think there is much room for improvement with the scripting.

[Eivion]

I can't presume to speak for GregX but I do take issue with the idea that just because a show is written for kids means it's okay for the writing to be sub-par. Kids are smarter then a lot of people give them credit for, they know when they're being talked down to and it will not earn you their respect.I was a kid once so I realize what your talking about, but I'm not getting this particular feeling of being talked down to like yourself and GregX.


Take the Loki thing for instance, most 6-11 year olds probably won't be versed in the minutia of Marvel lore. But at that age they're probably smart enough to figure out that the shadowy man in a green and yellow suit that Amora was talking to, is probably the same man in green and yellow she was talking to five episodes ago. And if kids start thinking the show has such a low opinion of their intelligence, they're going to start tuning out as soon as something better comes along.Again this is a minor quibble at best. I don't even think they were trying to hide who it was either which is why it feels ridiculous to claim it as an example of the show talking down to its audience.


Isn't a big part of the reason we enjoy shows like B:TAS so much because of their intelligent writing that appeals to all ages. Greg isn't really asking this show for anything DC animation hasn't been doing for over a decade now.Except the writing for this show has been solid at worst thus far. My problem right now is that a lot of these complaints seem more about people wanting this show not to compare to ones like B:TAS. Most of the complaints I've read here are minor at best, non-existent at worst with many going out of their way to look for "flaws".

[W.C.Reaf]

Again this is a minor quibble at best. I don't even think they were trying to hide who it was either which is why it feels ridiculous to claim it as an example of the show talking down to its audience.

I don't know about that. Having him be hidden by shadow where you can't see any of his features is a common device used in visual media to show the evil mastermind while keeping his/her identity reveal to a later date. It's never been used (to my knowledge at least) when the mastermind has already been revealed to the audience.

[AlgeaX]

I was a kid once so I realize what your talking about, but I'm not getting this particular feeling of being talked down to like yourself and GregX.

Again this is a minor quibble at best. I don't even think they were trying to hide who it was either which is why it feels ridiculous to claim it as an example of the show talking down to its audience.

It's possible they just wanted Loki draped in shadow to make him look ominous and the animators got a little carried away. Either way it's not a game breaker but it is kinda annoying.


Except the writing for this show has been solid at worst thus far. My problem right now is that a lot of these complaints seem more about people wanting this show not to compare to ones like B:TAS. Most of the complaints I've read here are minor at best, non-existent at worst with many going out of their way to look for "flaws".

Admittedly, I haven't been shy about criticizing this show when I feel it's made a misstep, particularly on the whole HYDRA/Nazi controversy. But I'd hate for people to come away with the impression that I hate the show or think it's crap when despite it's missteps, I think it shows a lot of potential and promise. It's easily the second most enjoyable first season of a Marvel toon I've seen in a long while.

But I do think all my criticism so far has been fair and constructive. And don't think GregX unfair or unrealistic either. I happen to know that he does enjoy the show despite whatever flaws he may percieve in it and so do I. Believe me, if the two of us didn't like the show, we wouldn't even be posting on this thread. Heck, we wouldn't have even watched past the pilot.

But again, the whole point of a talkback thread is to share our opinions, good and bad and in my opinion this was still a good episode despite the Loki thing.

[Medinnus]

Another very exciting episode, with Easter-Egg elements from several classic Avengers stories. I'm also happy that I have four of the six of my favorite era of Avengers at the forefront, missing only the Scarlet Witch and Quiicksilver to make the team from the Vol. 1 16-40-ish era complete!

I am very much enjoying the pacing of the battles, fast and furious, with each encounter taking seconds and not tens of seconds, as is the common practice in other shows. I suppose its ludicrous to call it "more realistic" with magic, advanced tech, and the like, but it requires (at least from me) less suspension of disbelief than, say, some other fights in other series or OAVs.

I was really annoyed that Iron Man, Hulk, and Thor didn't really get much of a part to lay down the might of Earth's Mightiest Heroes. While I understand that the othr characters need their screen-time too, and Hawkeye, Ant-Man, the Black Panther, and Wasp more than some others, its still disconcerting, particularly with Iron Man; his mansion defenses are a joke. JARVIS needs an upgrade, especially with Ultron on the way!

Other Notes:

* Taxicab driver's paper headlines include "Secret School for Mutants?" and "Replaced By Aliens - A Baxter Building Resident Speaks!". The Excelsior is SUCH a rag!

* The scene where Jan is slowly surrounded by the Masters of Evil reminded me of the scene in "Some Assembly Required" where the Avengers did the same thing to the Mandrill.

* At this point, we discover that Iron Man only has three suits of armor. Expect THAT to change!

* Loved watching T'Challa punk Hawkeye about the herbs.

* Nothing is more infuriating that watching Zemo walking around carrying Cap's shield!

* Hawkeye, while being bear-hugged by the Abomination. "Please... I'm begging you... brush your teeth!"

[carnage89]

So Loki will be the big bad for season 1, it seems. I guess we'll have to wait til season 2 for Ultron.

[NBM05]

I thought it was the best episode since the pilot. I loved seeing the Masters of Evil and was really glad that they got away at the end and can come back again. The episode had a nice "Under Siege" feel/pace to it, although a lot of the Avengers were changed from the ones in that storyline.

It probably would have made a good two parter, but it was fine as is. I really enjoy epic battles (the battle with Graviton in the pilot was great), so I would have enjoyed all the fights being extended a bit, but overall the action was done well.

As to the writing debate going on--while I also like the show, I can see room for constructive criticism. While Loki being in shadows at the end of this epidode didn't bother me, I have found the writing simplistic at times. Watching the begining of Gamma World, for example, I thought Cap riding his motorcycle across the rooftops (and managing to jump it from rooftop to rooftop without setting up ramps in advance) was ridiculous. I also thought that it was ridiculous when Cap and Hawkeye were on the straightaway and Cap's motorcycle couldn't even close the gap with Hawkeye--just how fast was Hawkeye running or how slow was Cap's motorcycle? Some of the leaps the non-powered Hawkeye was making were ridiculous as well. But the most ridiculous part of the sequence was when Hawkeye winds up surrounded in an alley by Thor, Cap, the Wasp, and Iron Man, then completely disappears from the middle of them all (and the entire alley even) when they each glance away for about one second. Not only does he vanish from the four heroes and the entire alley without anyone noticing in less time than it would have taken for most people to drop off the dumpster (or whatever it was) he was standing on, he isn't even seen disapearing by the people hovering in the helicopter above him. And that was just the first few minutes of the episode. Throw in things like the gamma radiation turning each animal named character into an anthropomorphized animal version of themselves and the way everyone exposed would immediately turn back (with no side effects) if they came out from under the dome, and I feel there is room to improve the writing. And while I appreciated the Leader's seconday mutation at the end of the episode when his headband shorted out, the writing didn't do anything to set it up or to explain it.

I do like the show quite a bit though, and really like the serialized story telling. I love ongoing storylines, character development, and subplots--and this show has all of those things. I hope it has a long run and gets even better as it goes.

[Bat-Fan Beyond]

So Loki will be the big bad for season 1, it seems. I guess we'll have to wait til season 2 for Ultron.

Hopefully Kang will be in there somewhere between Loki and Ultron.

[capfan1]

But I do think all my criticism so far has been fair and constructive. And don't think GregX unfair or unrealistic either. I happen to know that he does enjoy the show despite whatever flaws he may percieve in it and so do I. Believe me, if the two of us didn't like the show, we wouldn't even be posting on this thread. Heck, we wouldn't have even watched past the pilot.

QUOTE]So if you and greg x didn't like the show then the show is no good?You don't really believe that do you?Back to the show,in my opinon it is the best marvel series ever,probably the best animated series ever,but that's just because im a cap fan and avenger fan.Plus no other animated series had this much action.I don't think this episode lived up to it's expectations and none has since "breakout part 2".That being said it still had it's moments and still some solid fight scenes.I do hope they get the Hulk back into battle as he really didn't do anything.Why didn't they show Hulk battle the frost giants?That to me was the only flaw I saw in this episode.

[W.C.Reaf]

So if you and greg x didn't like the show then the show is no good?You don't really believe that do you?

He said they wouldn't be posting in the threads if they didn't like the show. Not in reference to the quality of the show itself just their enjoyment of it.

[AlgeaX]

So if you and greg x didn't like the show then the show is no good?You don't really believe that do you?

Huh? I just went into a big spiel about how we do like the show, we just think there's a bit more room for improvement. Even then, I still think it's one of the best toons to come out of Marvel animation in the past decade.

And yeah, I do tend to think there's some correlation between the quality of a show and how much I enjoy it. If someone knows a more objective method of quantifying such things, I'd like to hear it.

[GregX]

But I do think all my criticism so far has been fair and constructive. And don't think GregX unfair or unrealistic either. I happen to know that he does enjoy the show despite whatever flaws he may percieve in it and so do I. Believe me, if the two of us didn't like the show, we wouldn't even be posting on this thread. Heck, we wouldn't have even watched past the pilot.


So if you and greg x didn't like the show then the show is no good?You don't really believe that do you?Back to the show,in my opinon it is the best marvel series ever,probably the best animated series ever,but that's just because im a cap fan and avenger fan.Plus no other animated series had this much action.I don't think this episode lived up to it's expectations and none has since "breakout part 2".That being said it still had it's moments and still some solid fight scenes.I do hope they get the Hulk back into battle as he really didn't do anything.Why didn't they show Hulk battle the frost giants?That to me was the only flaw I saw in this episode.

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu288/BOOM_Michael_Bay/MichaelBayFiosExtend_gawkerflv.jpg

Mod Note: Just a reminder to keep the discussion on the topic at hand.

[Geodude]

Once again, Thor had some great action scenes and another great line ("This card is troubling. Iron Man's technology is constantly making noises at me.")
That explains why Tony was wondering a few episodes ago why Thor didn't answer the call (and he was absent the whole episode). Thor simply didn't know that the beeping meant he was needed. Another strike against Tony, since he evidently gave the card to Thor without explaining it fully.

[Rick Jones]

That explains why Tony was wondering a few episodes ago why Thor didn't answer the call (and he was absent the whole episode). Thor simply didn't know that the beeping meant he was needed. Another strike against Tony, since he evidently gave the card to Thor without explaining it fully.

It looks as though all types of modern tech and science make Thor uncomfortable right now. I guess he's in the same boat as Cap.

[Monte]

It was a good episode, but rather dissapointing... again, i feel this is a series that would benefit from the JLU treatment of having most of the episodes be 2 parters and thus an hour long. There was just so much potential for awesome fighting and dialogue that I felt got short changed... each of the avenger's fell very quickly, there was probably quite a bit that could have been said that wasn't, and the end brawl between the two groups ended ended up being crammed into the last 5 minutes... i mean when you half-dozen super heroes fighting a half-dozens high profile villains you expect a good long fight.

Though one thing i would mention about Loki... If i recall Thor said he has not been to asgard since he joined with the avengers correct? he also has not visited his father since he woke up. Well it's kind of hard to tell as I would need to see the episode again, but i think Loki might have been sitting on Odin's throne O_o ... not sure would have to see it again, but that's what i was thinking in that last scene


I guessing that Enchantress simply recognises that Zemo is the best qualified to lead. I mean he is a charasmatic criminal mastermind and pretty much an evil Captain America. As long as he's following Loki agenda, she's probably happy to let him think he's in charge.

Oh, and because he's better then you! :p


I think it's more about manipulating zemo more than anything else. When it comes down to it, Zemo plays second fiddle to NO ONE; there's no way she would be able to have authority over him with him either leaving the team or taking over the team to pursue his own agenda. In this case the best way to deal with Zemo is to let him take charge but make sure to push him in the direction you want him to take. So promise him earth if he follows your "advice" and you're got him doing Loki's bidding while under the illusion that he's in control. Essentially, Enchantress aporached him but is playing the power behind the throne instead of being in front

[.c.h.r.i.s.]

It was a good episode, but rather dissapointing... again, i feel this is a series that would benefit from the JLU treatment of having most of the episodes be 2 parters and thus an hour long.

This.

After the epic Breakout and Gamma World two parters, this episode was rather lackluster. I expected more.

[Wonderwall]

I almost forgot there was an episode this week. Guess I figured they'd take a little time off:sweat:

Sort of a mixed bag. Coming off Gamma World it seemed odd that the Masters would be the next battle. I thought that would be the next big two parter like I thought it was going to be. So it felt a little underwhelming considering all the big guns involved. The animation seemed pretty stiff and a step down from previous episodes as well. And there were some other things I didnt like, I thought not showing Hulk was a missed opportunity and Thor magically getting him back without knowing where he was seemed very convenient. And dont give me the Quesada answer either;)

But I liked the teamwork of the Masters and I thought they worked well to take down the Avengers with an actual plan of attack. Zemo was still as cool as he was the last time he showed up. Him showing up the Abomination might irk some people but it I liked it. Ant Man, I've never been a fan of but I think the best thing this show has done is make him...cool. I like Hawkeye's dialogue and his interaction with Black Panther was fun. Guess he can be a little personable when he wants to be. I also liked the little callback in the intro, I actually thought I was watching an old episode with the Taxi driver and the newspaper and phony Whirlwind.

[Razor]

No offense, Greg, but saying the dialogue is atrocious is hyperbole. I've seen atrocious dialogue, and this is nowhere near it.

[RoyalRubble]

Anybody else get a Justice Friends vibe from Hulk watching the tube ?

Now that you mention it, yeah. All that was missing was a "bonk". :p


The picture looks kind of like Ms. Forbes (http://marvel.toonzone.net/fanfourtas/episode/originpt2/03.jpg) to me.I thought so too at first, but 1. that looks almost definitely like a guy, and 2. isn't she supposed to be the landlady in the Baxter Building, not just a tenant?


That explains why Tony was wondering a few episodes ago why Thor didn't answer the call (and he was absent the whole episode). Thor simply didn't know that the beeping meant he was needed. Another strike against Tony, since he evidently gave the card to Thor without explaining it fully.

Yeah, that seems to be the case. I thought he was in his "imaginary world" (as Iron Man calls it during that episode), but we learn in this episode that Thor hasn't been in Asgard in a while.

[Venom Melendez]

We have to remember that this is the Disney Channel, if this was on CN we probably wouldn't have this problem, but that's not likely to happen.

Disney XD and CN doesn't exactly treat Marvel shows well(Especially now that they're part of the competition.)


Anyway, great episode and it seems were getting Captain Marvel next week.


I don't know about that. Having him be hidden by shadow where you can't see any of his features is a common device used in visual media to show the evil mastermind while keeping his/her identity reveal to a later date. It's never been used (to my knowledge at least) when the mastermind has already been revealed to the audience.

It has actually,

Anyway, i think it had more to do with hiding the fact that he escaped the Isle of Silence and actually took over Asgard. Since Thor thinks Odin awoke from the Odin sleep and is ok.


So Loki will be the big bad for season 1, it seems. I guess we'll have to wait til season 2 for Ultron.

I don't know, Red Skull hasn't shown up yet and it seems AIm is building a Cosmic Cube.

[Rick Jones]

I thought so too at first, but 1. that looks almost definitely like a guy, and 2. isn't she supposed to be the landlady in the Baxter Building, not just a tenant?
Yeah, she was the landlady. I think it's fairly safe to say that she's probably not a character anyone would make a playful reference to, so this is just coincidental. I think it's the androgynous hairstyle that made me think the face might belong to a woman. The caption does bring to mind the "My Neighbor Is A Skrull" episode of FF: WGH though.

This episode was a nice little test run for the Masters Of Evil. Tony really needs to update the Mansion's security though. There have been a lot of break-ins in a short space of time.

[Krypton_Knight]

I wonder if the web-episodes weren't planned after this one was recorded. It would make a lot more sense for a Loki reveal if Loki hadn't already been introduced.

I liked a lot of this episode, though they keep doing one or two things an episode (Hawkeye not getting squeezed into Clint juice by the Abomination, Thor just happening to know where the Hulk is) that reek of lazy or overly convenient plotting. Tighten these up and give the episodes a little more time to breathe, and we'll have a cartoon that challenges the best of JL/JLU.

The character bits: Thor and Jane, Hawkeye and Tchalla, Zemo's arogance against Thor, and Cap asking Zemo why, after 65 years, he just can't let the old vendettas go, were all frirst rate. I'm looking forward to seeing more of the Masters.

[AlgeaX]

Anyway, i think it had more to do with hiding the fact that he escaped the Isle of Silence and actually took over Asgard. Since Thor thinks Odin awoke from the Odin sleep and is ok.

If that turns out to be the case then I will officially take back anything bad I ever said about this episode, because that would be awesomeness of god-like proportions. :D

[GregX]

If that turns out to be the case then I will officially take back anything bad I ever said about this episode, because that would be awesomeness of god-like proportions. :D

I looked at the episode again, and the micro-episode. That is not Odin's throne. And the background still matches the Isle of Silence.

[redlion]

I looked at the episode again, and the micro-episode. That is not Odin's throne. And the background still matches the Isle of Silence.

The thing that's a little confusing though is that in the Isle of Silence ep, Loki is setting in a tangle of roots that looks like a seat but at the end of MOE he's definately sitting in a seperate chair or quite possibly a throne and not roots that are the shape of a seat..

[GregX]

The thing that's a little confusing though is that in the Isle of Silence ep, Loki is setting in a tangle of roots that looks like a seat but at the end of MOE he's definately sitting in a seperate chair or quite possibly a throne and not roots that are the shape of a seat..

If you look behind that chair, you can see the roots.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/vlcsnap-2010-12-06-12h29m45s47.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/vlcsnap-2010-12-06-12h30m50s212.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/vlcsnap-2010-12-06-12h34m23s13.png

He's still in the Isle of Silence. I guess Amora just brought him a chair.

[Crash]

Atrotious diologue? A little cheesy at times, but overall the inter-character banter has been one of the show's best aspects!

...Which is why Clint and T'Challa talking at the embasy was probably the highlight of the episode! Its rare to have a character ripping on the team the show is named after--and to have some real merit behind his criticisms! His silence after Cap was mentioned was a nice touch. The guy with the chip on his shoulder respects the professional.

It was also really good to give T'Challa some screen-time where he wasn't abandoning his teammates as bait. :sweat: And him lying to Clint was funny too. I assume he lied about the fruit being posoinous, since was so casual about it and smiled afterwards...

[AlgeaX]

It was also really good to give T'Challa some screen-time where he wasn't abandoning his teammates as bait. :sweat: And him lying to Clint was funny too. I assume he lied about the fruit being posoinous, since was so casual about it and smiled afterwards...

Maybe not, the whole being poisonous to anyone but the Wakandan royal line is straight out of Black Panther's origin story.

[redlion]

If you look behind that chair, you can see the roots.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/vlcsnap-2010-12-06-12h29m45s47.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/vlcsnap-2010-12-06-12h30m50s212.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/vlcsnap-2010-12-06-12h34m23s13.png

He's still in the Isle of Silence. I guess Amora just brought him a chair.

LOL!! Who knows, maybe she did afterall :)
:)

[macattack]

I don't think the dialogue is atrocious but it could use consistency. We have brilliant conversations like Captain America's "science fiction" conversation with Iron Man, but, for example, Wasp's banter at Whirlwind (who is actually Enchantress in disguise) left a lot to be desired.

Also, when comparing the Loki shot to the dark silhouette more closely, I'm not so sure that is Loki anymore. The silhouette is bigger than Loki and seems to be wearing a slightly different outfit. Looks more like . . . Odin.

*is shot*

[Wonderwall]

It looks like Loki to me. The outline of his clothes that cover his shoulders matches the one from the previous episode, as do his long hair and the sleeves of his shirt. His belt also matches and I can just make out the horns on his helmet.

Edit: He also doesn't look bigger to me, I actually think he looks bigger in the shot where you can see him but that's because he's leaning forward.

[AlgeaX]

He's still in the Isle of Silence. I guess Amora just brought him a chair.

Makes sense, as someone who used to do a lot of camping and hiking in my younger days, I can tell ya sitting on a damp log all day isn't pleasant.

[Mr. Hypocrite]

A little late, but here I be.

So quite a few members of the team dislike Tony as the leader (Ant-man, hawkeye, and likely Panther as well). Cap is naturally the odds on favourite for new leader. I'm just curious as to how it will go down. Will Tony realize it on his own (which would be for the best) or will things go badly on that front?

The Enchantress is what's keeping Simon Corporeal eh? So perhaps if one Asgardian can keep him steady, another (with say, a hammer of pain and Thunder) could do the same. Tony and Hank worked together, they might be able to give him a better offer (and Tony would be able to make up for pushing Simon to that point in the first place), and take away his current reason to be an enemy.

The Loki thing had not effect on me. We should all consider that maybe there's an in-story reason for the shadows, like it makes him seem cooler, or some Grandiose reason. They are Asgardians: They don't do anything small.:cool:

[Maniaxe]

It looks like Loki to me. The outline of his clothes that cover his shoulders matches the one from the previous episode, as do his long hair and the sleeves of his shirt. His belt also matches and I can just make out the horns on his helmet.

Edit: He also doesn't look bigger to me, I actually think he looks bigger in the shot where you can see him but that's because he's leaning forward.

Don't forget though, we haven't seen the return of Kang yet.

[Venom Melendez]

If you look behind that chair, you can see the roots.

He's still in the Isle of Silence. I guess Amora just brought him a chair.

She just brought him a chair to the Isle of Silence? I doubt that, since with be a waste of effort. Especially since his plan was probably to take out Odin while he was asleep.


So yeah, he probably did escape.

[GregX]

She just brought him a chair to the Isle of Silence? I doubt that, since with be a waste of effort. Especially since his plan was probably to take out Odin while he was asleep.


So yeah, he probably did escape.

Dude, look at the background in those shots.

[Monte]

Well it might make sense that Loki hasn't made his move on odin... we have to recall he once appeared before Odin in the form of Balder to tell him of the connection to Jane Foster. If odin has already been dethroned then that scene would have been pointless... more than likely that scene was meant to show Loki making an attempt to drive a larger wedge between Thor and Odin. If that's the case then we do have to see Odin confront Thor about his developing mortal love, before Odin falls... If i had to guess i might think that the confrontation would anger Thor enough to make sure that the next time asgard calls he ignores it; most likely in favor of saving Jane... Loki's may be setting up something of a Xanatos gambit



So yeah, he probably did escape.
Considering how enchantress was able to just come and go from the isle of Silence, i imagine there would not be much keeping him from escaping. If he is still on the isle then i would imagine that its by choice; such as if he leaves Odin might notice him gone

[Venom Melendez]

Odin is at his weakest while in the Odin sleep, if Loki was going to make a move, it would be before Odin woke up.

[W.C.Reaf]

Well it might make sense that Loki hasn't made his move on odin... we have to recall he once appeared before Odin in the form of Balder to tell him of the connection to Jane Foster. If odin has already been dethroned then that scene would have been pointless... more than likely that scene was meant to show Loki making an attempt to drive a larger wedge between Thor and Odin. If that's the case then we do have to see Odin confront Thor about his developing mortal love, before Odin falls... If i had to guess i might think that the confrontation would anger Thor enough to make sure that the next time asgard calls he ignores it; most likely in favor of saving Jane... Loki's may be setting up something of a Xanatos gambit

That scene already did drive a wedge between Thor and Odin as seen in the Thor micro episode before the Isle of Silence. It's how Odin knew of Jane foster and why Thor thinks his father is spying on him.


Considering how enchantress was able to just come and go from the isle of Silence, i imagine there would not be much keeping him from escaping. If he is still on the isle then i would imagine that its by choice; such as if he leaves Odin might notice him gone

I expect him being banished there means he can't escape on his own but the Enchantress can come and go as she pleases. Given that there are clear roots behind him in this episode, plus the fact that he didn't speak, lends to the fact that he might not be able to leave yet.

[Venom Melendez]

I expect him being banished there means he can't escape on his own but the Enchantress can come and go as she pleases. Given that there are clear roots behind him in this episode, plus the fact that he didn't speak, lends to the fact that he might not be able to leave yet.

I doubt it, since the punishment was him being stuck there alone, so having people visit him kinda goes agaisnt that.

Also, Amora was able let him speak when she was there.

[Monte]

Odin is at his weakest while in the Odin sleep, if Loki was going to make a move, it would be before Odin woke up.
Well one thing we have to remember is that Thor is capable of repelling Loki's assaults without the aid of Odin... If Loki were to attack during Odin's sleep, Thor would return and defeat him like he did in the micro episodes... What we have to ask is, does Loki have a way to prevent Thor from being warned? If he does not then attacking during the Odin's sleep would do him no good, as he would just be beaten and this time sent somewhere worse than the isle of silence. And that's why i think it's possibly that Loki did not make his move during Odin's sleep and is still on the isle of silence... he might actually end up waiting till Odin is a awake, prepare something to help him deal with his father, and make sure he manipulates Thor in such a way that he chooses NOT to return when he is needed, in part due to the wedge between him and his father, aswell as him having to deal with something on Earth and due to his belief that Odin can take care of asgard now that he is awake



I expect him being banished there means he can't escape on his own but the Enchantress can come and go as she pleases. Given that there are clear roots behind him in this episode, plus the fact that he didn't speak, lends to the fact that he might not be able to leave yet.
Oh i'm not saying he left the isle of silence; i'm saying that maybe he COULD leave but chooses NOT to leave... If Odin is awake and is keeping tabs on Loki to make sure he staying where he is, then Loki may be choosing not to escape to make sure Odin remains unaware that he can leave at anytime... he will stay on the isle until it's time to make his final move.

[Rick Jones]

Well one thing we have to remember is that Thor is capable of repelling Loki's assaults without the aid of Odin... If Loki were to attack during Odin's sleep, Thor would return and defeat him like he did in the micro episodes... What we have to ask is, does Loki have a way to prevent Thor from being warned?
Is it possible that Loki planned his easy defeat at Thor's hands ? At the end of "Thor The Mighty", we see that Loki has a plan in motion that included Thor's run-in with the Wrecking Crew and creating a rift between Thor and Odin. It is possible that he could have expected Wrecker and co. to put up a better fight and keep Thor occupied but his actual siege on Asgard felt a little flimsy.

[W.C.Reaf]

Is it possible that Loki planned his easy defeat at Thor's hands ? At the end of "Thor The Mighty", we see that Loki has a plan in motion that included Thor's run-in with the Wrecking Crew and creating a rift between Thor and Odin. It is possible that he could have expected Wrecker and co. to put up a better fight and keep Thor occupied but his actual siege on Asgard felt a little flimsy.

What I took away from the Isle of Silence micro is that all of "Thor The Mighty" was part of Loki's plan. He had the Wrecking Crew attack so Thor and Jan Foster would talk to each other, posed as Balder to give Odin information on Thor and Jane, he manipulated the Frost Giants to attack so he and Thor could talk and sow the seeds of discontent between Thor and Odin. All cumulating in Thor leaving Asgard and not wanting to speak to Odin. He knew, as well, that he'd get banished to the Isle of Silence as he had Enchantress meet him there.

So to me Loki planned all of that for something much bigger in mind, and since we know the Odinsleep has past it's not to do with that. Even at the end of this episode it's clear that the goal of the Masters was not to defeat the Avengers but to put the "pieces in place" for Loki's plan.

What this plan is is a little hard to tell. We know it involves the Avengers, possibly even them being formed if the point of Loki's manipulations in "Thor The Mighty" was to get Thor on Earth when the Breakout happened since he would've been in Asgard for the Odinsleep otherwise. Other than that it's hard to tell what his end goal is.

[Monte]

What I took away from the Isle of Silence micro is that all of "Thor The Mighty" was part of Loki's plan. He had the Wrecking Crew attack so Thor and Jan Foster would talk to each other, posed as Balder to give Odin information on Thor and Jane, he manipulated the Frost Giants to attack so he and Thor could talk and sow the seeds of discontent between Thor and Odin. All cumulating in Thor leaving Asgard and not wanting to speak to Odin. He knew, as well, that he'd get banished to the Isle of Silence as he had Enchantress meet him there.

Actually Loki posing as Balder is something i find a bit confusing. Namely WHEN did that meeting take place. Thor met Jane right before he left for asgard; seeing as that was the moment Loki moved against Odin Balder would have been out figthing the frost giants, meaning Loki could not get away with posing as him and having a casual conversation with Odin. Furtharmore, it seemed like the meeting occurred before enchantress showed up on the isle of Silence, as in before Loki could have made any escape... So it seems like the only time the meeting could have taken place is BEFORE the frost giant attack, but again the micro episodes make it seem like Thor met Jane right at the begining of that attack... So did Thor actually meet Jane once before that time, or was Loki actually playing match maker? thor meeting Jane before would make a bit more sense since playing match maker like that would seem incredibly flimsy; Thor didn't even have a need to talk to Jane... if Loki were to play match maker, it would have served him well to start getting Thor together with Jane A LOT sooner before launching the frost giant attack

[W.C.Reaf]

Actually Loki posing as Balder is something i find a bit confusing. Namely WHEN did that meeting take place. Thor met Jane right before he left for asgard; seeing as that was the moment Loki moved against Odin Balder would have been out figthing the frost giants, meaning Loki could not get away with posing as him and having a casual conversation with Odin. Furtharmore, it seemed like the meeting occurred before enchantress showed up on the isle of Silence, as in before Loki could have made any escape... So it seems like the only time the meeting could have taken place is BEFORE the frost giant attack, but again the micro episodes make it seem like Thor met Jane right at the begining of that attack... So did Thor actually meet Jane once before that time, or was Loki actually playing match maker? thor meeting Jane before would make a bit more sense since playing match maker like that would seem incredibly flimsy; Thor didn't even have a need to talk to Jane... if Loki were to play match maker, it would have served him well to start getting Thor together with Jane A LOT sooner before launching the frost giant attack

Loki impersonating Balder would have to take place sometime before the Frost Giant attack since there did not seem to be a battle going on outside when he was talking to Odin. It didn't take place when Loki was imprisoned in the Isle of Silence as, with all of Loki's manipulation scenes, it was a flashback.

My guess is that either Thor had seen Jane doing her brave paramedic thing before meeting her and Loki saw that and arranged for them to meet. Or Loki knew Thor would be smitten with her and set them up to meet. All to drive a wedge between him and Odin over Odin spying on him. Why Loki would stage the Frost Giant attack when Thor met Jane could have been so his encounter with her would be fresh in his mind when Odin brought it up.

There's also the possibility that Jane is a minion of Loki, maybe even the Enchantress, and that's how he knew about her. That's a long shot though.

[Jeffrey Logan]

Reading all posts here makes me think: What if "the shadow" was not Loki, but The Mandarin instead (she could call him the master, because she believes he could release Loki, which actually might be his lie, to get her to work for him). His colours are usually green and yellow (except in toys, where he's typically colored red and yellow).

[Anwar]

Doorway to another dimension. Well, he could be Loki or Dormammu. Or even Kang in the future.

[Venom Melendez]

Reading all posts here makes me think: What if "the shadow" was not Loki, but The Mandarin instead (she could call him the master, because she believes he could release Loki, which actually might be his lie, to get her to work for him). His colours are usually green and yellow (except in toys, where he's typically colored red and yellow).


It was clearly Loki though. Besides, Enchantress wouldn't work with Mandarin.

[Medinnus]

Doorway to another dimension. Well, he could be Loki or Dormammu. Or even Kang in the future.

Well, once we admit metatextual sorcery to the equation, it could be any of Dr. Strange's infrequent opponents or cosmic beings. It could be a Space Phantom (tm Kurt Busiek) or a Skrull (tm Brian Bendis). It could even be Hobgoblin of the Imperial Guard )

Personally, I'm sticking with Occam's Razor. Its Loki.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Well, once we admit metatextual sorcery to the equation, it could be any of Dr. Strange's infrequent opponents or cosmic beings. It could be a Space Phantom (tm Kurt Busiek) or a Skrull (tm Brian Bendis). It could even be Hobgoblin of the Imperial Guard )

Personally, I'm sticking with Occam's Razor. Its Loki.

Why isn't anyone guessing Surtur?

Okay, if it's not Odin in disguise giving Thor a secret test of character (and come on, those trees, Isle of Silence), it's got to be Loki.

[TheVileOne]

If that was Loki in the shadows, maybe he was in the shadows for a reason. I don't see what the big deal is.

I don't see how the show talks down to people its one of the smarter written superhero shows in recent memory.

As far as the dialogue, I don't see the problem. All shows like this have dialogue that can be construed as cheesy or has sort of witty banter type stuff. All superhero shows have dialogue like this.

[HEATXZ]

Awesome episode :anime:
I enjoy the fight scenes

[CyclonatorZ]

One of the weaker episodes in my opinion, as the plot was very basic and it had less character development than I would have hoped. However, the fight scenes continue to be excellent, and it's nice to see that Loki seems to be running something of a Xanatos Gambit.

Speaking of which, I have a theory as to why they made the mistake of shrouding Loki in darkness, after we already knew who was directing Enchantress. Up to now, Thor's brother hasn't actually appeared on the series main - only in the micro-episodes. This makes me wonder if the scriptwriter this episode was brought on after they finished work on the mini-series, and thus wasn't aware of how it played out. This doesn't excuse what was in my opinion one of the show's biggest writing missteps thus far, but it does at least seem to be a plausible explanation for why it happened.

[Medinnus]

Ummm... no. Thor has not yet had the spotlight shine on him perhaps as much as I'd like, but he's been there and appearing...

[CyclonatorZ]

Ummm... no. Thor has not yet had the spotlight shine on him perhaps as much as I'd like, but he's been there and appearing...

I said Thor's brother, as in Loki - who had indeed not appeared in the main show until this moment. And are you serious about that? Personally, I've found Thor to be one of the big standouts on the show - he gets at least one cool moment every episode. :p

[Medinnus]

I said Thor's brother, as in Loki - who had indeed not appeared in the main show until this moment. And are you serious about that? Personally, I've found Thor to be one of the big standouts on the show - he gets at least one cool moment every episode. :p

Sorry - missed the "brother".

And he does seem to get the best one-line shots :D

[Manhunter]

One of the weaker episodes in my opinion, as the plot was very basic and it had less character development than I would have hoped. However, the fight scenes continue to be excellent, and it's nice to see that Loki seems to be running something of a Xanatos Gambit.

Speaking of which, I have a theory as to why they made the mistake of shrouding Loki in darkness, after we already knew who was directing Enchantress. Up to now, Thor's brother hasn't actually appeared on the series main - only in the micro-episodes. This makes me wonder if the scriptwriter this episode was brought on after they finished work on the mini-series, and thus wasn't aware of how it played out. This doesn't excuse what was in my opinion one of the show's biggest writing missteps thus far, but it does at least seem to be a plausible explanation for why it happened.

Maybe he forgot to pay the light bill.:D

[suss2it]

I said Thor's brother, as in Loki - who had indeed not appeared in the main show until this moment. And are you serious about that? Personally, I've found Thor to be one of the big standouts on the show - he gets at least one cool moment every episode. :p

Except he has appeared in the main show since the "micro-episodes" are really just the first five episodes broken down.

[CyclonatorZ]

Except he has appeared in the main show since the "micro-episodes" are really just the first five episodes broken down.

True - but watching the combined episodes makes me think that the shorts were produced individually, as they don't really fit together as well as normal episodes. Besides, I still wouldn't be suprised if that mistake was a result of some miscomunication or another - it was probably produced months after the micro-episodes (which were likely some of the first Avengers:EMH productions to be completed), and they might have brought on new script writers since then that somehow were not sufficiently informed on what had already taken place in the show.

Again, it's just a theory, and there's no real way of varrifying it for sure. I'm just trying to rationalize why something like this would have happened, considering that it's an entirely unique slip-up in a show that usually has a good handle on its various plots.

[suss2it]

True - but watching the combined episodes makes me think that the shorts were produced individually, as they don't really fit together as well as normal episodes. Besides, I still wouldn't be suprised if that mistake was a result of some miscomunication or another - it was probably produced months after the micro-episodes (which were likely some of the first Avengers:EMH productions to be completed), and they might have brought on new script writers since then that somehow were not sufficiently informed on what had already taken place in the show.

Again, it's just a theory, and there's no real way of varrifying it for sure. I'm just trying to rationalize why something like this would have happened, considering that it's an entirely unique slip-up in a show that usually has a good handle on its various plots.Christopher Yost wrote "Masters of Evil" and he's been on the show since the beginning as well as he's the head writer of the show. So either he must've wanted Loki blocked out for some reason or it was a mistake on the animators' end.

[Callonme]

Christopher Yost wrote "Masters of Evil" and he's been on the show since the beginning as well as he's the head writer of the show. So either he must've wanted Loki blocked out for some reason or it was a mistake on the animators' end.

No, I think you're correct: keeping Loki in the shadows was an aesthetic and story choice. I believe it was to subtly remind the audience of his presence without making them too aware of it. There's so much going on in this show, one of its pleasures is when a forgotten plot point is brought to the forefront.

And if there was an animation error, a retake would be called. Especially for such a simple and important shot.

[CyclonatorZ]

Christopher Yost wrote "Masters of Evil" and he's been on the show since the beginning as well as he's the head writer of the show. So either he must've wanted Loki blocked out for some reason or it was a mistake on the animators' end.

Hm, then I guess that throws my theory out the window. I wonder if we'll ever find out what his specific reasoning was...

[Medinnus]

Hm, then I guess that throws my theory out the window. I wonder if we'll ever find out what his specific reasoning was...

It could be just as simple as wanting to throw a little drama and suspense for those who hadn't seen the micro-episodes... lets not over-think this. If there is a deeper reason, we'll find out in due course :D

[Munkiman]

Loki just wanted to look spooky, is what I think.

[dmxx116]

The Avengers are getting pluck off one by one by the newly from Masters of Evil so it up to Ant Man,Black Panther and Hawkeye to save their teammates in this all out battle.

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/5/a0/4d2e135c1b533.jpg

http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1701/the_avengers_emh_2010_season_1-_ep_14

[AlgeaX]

The Avengers are getting pluck off one by one by the newly from Masters of Evil so it up Ant Man,Black Panther and Hawkeye to save their teammates.

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/5/a0/4d2e135c1b533.jpg
http://marvel.com/news/story/14988/watch_the_avengers_emh_2010_season_1-_ep_14

Wow, it's pretty dang cool of Marvel to be putting up these eps on their website for free. Particularly given that they've got almost the whole series so far up there.

[Medinnus]

Wow, it's pretty dang cool of Marvel to be putting up these eps on their website for free. Particularly given that they've got almost the whole series so far up there.

I am very impressed with the level of support - dare I say, unprecedented support - that Marvel is giving this series. It bodes well for future series, as well (both live-action and animated).

[Dsneybuf]

I've noticed that when I watch versions people uploaded from recording off of Disney XD, Loki appears in pitch black at the end, but when I stream the episode off Netflix, I can make out his face and some of the lines in his costume. Did they brighten it for Netflix, or did I just watch a crappy upload before?