Batman: The Brave and The Bold "The Criss Cross Conspiracy!" Talkback (Spoilers) [Archive]

M.O.D.O.K.

10-29-2010, 07:54 PM

Bug-Eyed Bandit makes his official debut, as he fights Batman and the Atom with his robotic ants. Luckily, Batman calls Aquaman, and the big lug saves the day. Quite a fun teamup, and between the interactions with Atom and Aquaman, and the presence of Dee Bradley Baker as Bug-Eyed Bandit, I had a flashback to "Journey to the Center of the Bat". Fun times.

The main episode deals with Katrina Moldoff, the Batwoman, as she tries to get her revenge on the Riddler, since the villain unmasked her in front of everyone, humiliated her, and ended her career as Batman's reckless, unwanted sidekick ten years ago. She gets a spell from paroled villain Felix Faust, who gives her a body-switching potion, and uses it on Batman. With her new body, she attempts to kill Riddler and ruin Batman's reputation. She doesn't count on Batman escaping and recruiting Batgirl, Nightwing, and Faust to go after her. It culminates in a final showdown, as the Riddler almost kills Batwoman in Batman's body, but is stopped by the heroes and Faust. The police come, and the criminals and Katrina are arrested.

This episode was...interesting, to say the least. I noticed the changes made to Batwoman: her backstory remains the same, except her name is changed from "Kathy Kane" to Katrina Moldoff, with the last name a homage to Sheldon Moldoff, one of the aliases used by Bob Kane. Also, she is much more vindictive and villainous than her comic book counterpart, who was reckless but well-meaning. Finally, was she even referred to a "Batwoman" in this episode. I heard the name "Bat Lady" twice, so I'll probably need to re-watch. These changes are interesting, and I'm curious to learn the motive behind them.

Not that they took away from my enjoyment, though. The tone was serious, but there was plenty of humor used, from body-switching shennanigans, to the flirtations with Felix Faust, to the "center of gravity" line from Batmn

5/5

NEXT WEEK: First, Batman travels to World War II, and fights alongside Sgt. Rock and G.I. Robot. Then, as Batman leaves to fight crime elsewhere, Batman employs an army of Bat-bots to protect Gotham City. But when crime boss Black Mask finds a way to reprogram them to control Gotham, Batman is forced to turn on the first prototype, "Proto", a bumblin Bat-bot.

trance2009

10-29-2010, 08:07 PM

Batman contradicted himself

He said he wouldn't hit a woman... but when it came to Ms, Manface he said "the hammer of Justice is Unisex"

*dies laughing*
classic "wtf" face by Nightwing

It's ok to hit ugly girls. Everyone knows that. :yawn:

KillerMoth

10-29-2010, 08:09 PM

Batman as Batwoman: Obviously my center of gravity now is..*peaks down*..higher.

Fantastic episode! I loved the teaser, wonderful to see Ryan Choi again, and a perfect touch to bring in his chemistry with Aquaman again. It was a great touch as well to note that Ryan got a long quite better with him this time, but obviously still hated how layman's terming he had to be. And the Bug-Eyed Bandit, very cool, a different design to the Aquaman's Outrageous Adventure! one.

Main episode was terrific, season 2 has been consistent homeruns for the most part. I loved Riddler's suit design, and it was cool we got to see both designs in one ep, and Mentok the Mindtaker is the perfect voice for him.

But really, it was the body-swapping shenanigans that were most enjoyable, espeically hearing Batman say "Puh-Leaze!" and of course Batman tripping in high heels. I was really glad that Nightwing and Batgirl played a larger role than I thought they would, and I like that now that he's his own man Nightwing isn't angsty.

Oh, and Felix Faust was riot.

Oh, and Tiger Shark!

Oh, and I was right! Riddler did reveal her secret identity!

jph139

10-29-2010, 09:07 PM

Very fun episode. Of course. Exciting to see the Riddler - both in his suit-and-bowler style and his leotard! My favorite thing about this show; all-encompassing.

Great reaction shots from Nightwing and Batgirl, too. After Batmanwoman starts talking about killing the Riddler, that second-long shot of their faces had me rolling. And it's nice to see both of them again in general.

HEATXZ

10-29-2010, 09:13 PM

Great episode :anime:
My favorite parts are The Teaser with Aquaman and The Atom,The Riddler unmasking Batwoman, and Batman and Batwoman switching bodies XD

Anthonynotes

10-29-2010, 10:37 PM

Yojimbo

10-29-2010, 11:35 PM

It was great to see more Batman villains that usual, in this episode; The Spinner, Tiger Shark, and Riddler, along with Bug-Eyed Bandit and Felix Faust. And to top it off, a Bat-Family episode with Robin/Nightwing and Batgirl teaming up. I, too, agree with a bit weird to rename Batwoman's alter-ego but for its reference, worth it. I thought they got her smugness down pretty well from the Silver Age comics and didn't expect her Bat-Cycle to appear, too. I suppose throwing in Bat-Girl would have been overkill and somewhat confusing.

Riddler was awesome though. His retort about getting a new writer was hilarious. A bit meta.

Monkeys? :D

I thought Vanessa Marshall was a great choice for Batwoman. I hope they use her a lot more as the series goes on.

Who do you think voiced the Spinner? There were so many voice actors in this episode, sort of hard to guess, imo.

KillerMoth

10-29-2010, 11:41 PM

Riddler was awesome though. His retort about getting a new writer was hilarious. A bit meta.

I loved his "unveiling" of Batwoman too, certainly one of more, or only, pragmatic things any villain on BTBATB has ever done :D

Yojimbo

10-29-2010, 11:44 PM

I loved his "unveiling" of Batwoman too, certainly one of more, or only, pragmatic things any villain on BTBATB has ever done :DTrue. The villains are starting to lean that way the past few episodes. I liked that moment when Katrina doesn't know what to do, and in the background Batman and Robin just leave. :crying:

Superpan

10-29-2010, 11:57 PM

HOLY GENDER CONFUSION BATMAN!

Overall, this episode was an interesting one to watch as it continued the trend of Batcentric episodes. The design of the Riddler looked different but that was probably the jacket.

I was surprised by what they did with Batwoman. She was a bit...intense. Of course, the gender-swap thing tied in perfectly with me, having watched alot of Rocky Horror this week.

That said, question about Faust. If he gave Kathy a potion to switch bodies, how come he took his word that it didn't work? I mean you couldn't tell....unless he knew it was Batman the entire time...

That said, we did get a Some Like it Hot reference. That was fun.

Also, I'm sure Nightwing will be having some awkward moments around Bruce after his feelings for Batwoman.

I will finish with two last points.

1. "Oh no, he pulled off the mask that covered all three inches of my face!"

2. DC strikes again with the Batwoman name change. I can understand this with Hawkman, but with the original Batwoman, a character whose stories are never reprinted and has been replaced in continuity by her niece, it just seems silly to try to preserve her "heroic reputation".

hobbyfan

10-30-2010, 12:01 AM

[QUOTE=D.A.V.E.;3723548]This episode was...interesting, to say the least. I noticed the changes made to Batwoman: her backstory remains the same, except her name is changed from "Kathy Kane" to Katrina Moldoff, with the last name a homage to Sheldon Moldoff, one of the aliases used by Bob Kane. Also, she is much more vindictive and villainous than her comic book counterpart, who was reckless but well-meaning. Finally, was she even referred to a "Batwoman" in this episode. I heard the name "Bat Lady" twice, so I'll probably need to re-watch. These changes are interesting, and I'm curious to learn the motive behind them.

Sheldon Moldoff & Bob Kane were two separate people.

Radical

10-30-2010, 12:31 AM

Awesome/funny episode,

The highlights:
Cool to see the Atom.
The Bug-Eyed Bandit is back who's pretty cool, I hope to see more of the Atom's rogues gallery.
Aquaman is here too, it's always awesome to see him.
The Atom's "we're doomed" line was hilarious, hahahahaha.
Aquaman getting burned was pretty funny.
The Batwoman story is animated, YYEESS!!!!
The Riddler is back which I love his cool original suit design/costume look with the voice of Mentok the Mindtaker next to his cool Batman:TAS/The Batman counterparts:anime:.
Batwoman is hot/awesome, her original design is great.
The Riddler being to first Batman supervillain to expose Batwoman in public was great/surprising.
Cool to see Nightwing/Batgirl, the Bat-Family, which Batgirl gets her major role, awesome, and I'm glad Dick got over his whiny angst issues with Batman before becoming Nightwing.
The Spinner is back which I don't care for.
Felix Faust is back, yaaaay, he finally gets an important role.
Cool to see my Tiger Shark, he's so cool.
Katrina switching bodies with Batman except for the voices was great, Batwoman being villainous was awesome.
Katrina(Batman) was so disturbing/funny, a girly Batman, hahahahaha:ack::p.
Batman(Katrina) getting punched surprised me.
Nightwing/Batgirl's reactions to Katrina(Batman) was priceless, hehehe.
Felix Faust being the womanizing pervert hitting on Batman(Batwoman) was hilarious, hahahahaha, his character was handled marvelously:p:D.
Katrina(Batman) using the Batman Forever reference of "Riddle me this, riddle me that, who's afraid of the big black bat," was sweet!!!!!
Batwoman being a revenge freak trying to pull a Spectre on killing the Riddler was sweet.
Batman(Batwoman) revealing Nightwing's dirty secret was funny, hahahaha.
Batgirl waking up Felix Faust like that was funny, hahahaha.
Poor Batwoman getting arrested was kind of sad, I hope to see her return in the future.
Batman/Felix Faust's conversation at the end was funny, hahahaha.

Yojimbo

10-30-2010, 12:32 AM

Sheldon Moldoff & Bob Kane were two separate people.Good catch. Moldoff was one of Kane's uncredited 'ghost' artists along with Win Mortimer and Dick Sprang for 14-15 years or so. I believe Moldoff co-created Bat-Girl, Bat-Mite, Ace the Bathound, and Poison Ivy. I think his earliest work was Alan Scott or Hawkman before the collaboration, too.

Robert McSantos

10-30-2010, 02:15 AM

These changes are interesting, and I'm curious to learn the motive behind them.

It's probably the same thing that got the Justice Society changed to the Justice Guild in the two-part Justice League episode "Legends". DC had just launched a new JSA monthly series, and they didn't want the sales of that book to be sabotaged by a cartoon that basically just mocks those characters for an hour. So the names and costumes where changed just enough that longtime comic fans would still know who they were talking about while new readers wouldn't make the connection.

DC is putting out a Batwoman one-shot in November, with the intention of launching a monthly series from it later this year. While the current Batwoman is similar to the 50's version in name only (which is probably why there wasn't also a costume change this time), it's still enough to make DC nervous. Regardless, it's pretty obvious who this is supposed to be, even if the names "Batwoman" and "Kathy Kane" are never actually said in the episode.

It was great to see more Batman villains that usual, in this episode; The Spinner, Tiger Shark, and Riddler, along with Bug-Eyed Bandit and Felix Faust.

Except for the opening and Felix Faust, this was the most Gotham-centric episode yet. This could have easily been an episode of The New Batman Adventures and no one would have batted an eye.

Yojimbo

10-30-2010, 03:44 AM

Just noticed on second view that Ryan Choi has his Bangstick from the comics! Totally explains how he flew into Aquaman's ear. :D

It's probably the same thing that got the Justice Society changed to the Justice Guild in the two-part Justice League episode "Legends". DC had just launched a new JSA monthly series, and they didn't want the sales of that book to be sabotaged by a cartoon that basically just mocks those characters for an hour. So the names and costumes where changed just enough that longtime comic fans would still know who they were talking about while new readers wouldn't make the connection.

DC is putting out a Batwoman one-shot in November, with the intention of launching a monthly series from it later this year. While the current Batwoman is similar to the 50's version in name only (which is probably why there wasn't also a costume change this time), it's still enough to make DC nervous. Regardless, it's pretty obvious who this is supposed to be, even if the names "Batwoman" and "Kathy Kane" are never actually said in the episode.Interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

Rick Jones

10-30-2010, 03:47 AM

Batman contradicted himself

He said he wouldn't hit a woman... but when it came to Ms, Manface he said "the hammer of Justice is Unisex"

*dies laughing*
classic "wtf" face by Nightwing
He said he wouldn't hit a defenseless woman and Man-Face was in a mecha suit so she was far from defenseless.

Robert McSantos

10-30-2010, 04:02 AM

Katrina switching bodies with Batman except for the voices was great, Batwoman being villainous was awesome.

Oh, thanks for reminding me. I want to say "thank you" to the creators of this show for not having the characters switch voice actors when they switched minds. It always bothers me when cartoons do that. First of all, brains and vocal chords aren't the same thing. Secondly, it's always funnier to hear the voice actors try to imitate each other than it is to hear one character's voice coming out of another one's mouth.

But this is turning into a rant, so I'll just say it again. Thanks for not doing that.

KillerMoth

10-30-2010, 05:57 AM

Oh, thanks for reminding me. I want to say "thank you" to the creators of this show for not having the characters switch voice actors when they switched minds. It always bothers me when cartoons do that. First of all, brains and vocal chords aren't the same thing. Secondly, it's always funnier to hear the voice actors try to imitate each other than it is to hear one character's voice coming out of another one's mouth.

But this is turning into a rant, so I'll just say it again. Thanks for not doing that.
No I definitely agree with you, I was surprised and very happy when the voice actors did not switch. Hearing Batman say "Puh Leeeaaasee!" and "Do I look fat in this outfit?" was gold, as was the more sinister lines to Riddler.

Also, did anyone else find Batwoman really sympathetic? I mean, she did some awful things in this ep, but I felt it was handled perfectly. At first when her identity was revealed it came across as a "So what?" moment for me since the press came straight to her, you'd think she'd enjoy it, but then the heavily implied after-effects of having to live a recluse - presumably to avoid assassination attempts, condemning public, and of course everyone left her - were certainly quite touching.

Rick Jones

10-30-2010, 06:11 AM

I can't say that I felt too sympathetic towards her outside of how Batman just left her to be swarmed by the paparazzi. She didn't really seem to be in any danger and it looked like she secluded herself from society due to embarrassment and bitterness over the reveal and the Batwoman ban.

KillerMoth

10-30-2010, 06:19 AM

Fair enough, but I think it was a bit more than that. What she says when she first meets Batman again and at the end indicate that everyone she trusted had abandoned her.

Oh, and calling Nightwing darling was hilarious.

Toddman

10-30-2010, 09:43 AM

Nice to start with a Tiny Titans reference :)

"The Tiny Titan" was an early nickname used for the Atom (along with "The Mighty Mite").

Toddman

W.C.Reaf

10-30-2010, 10:28 AM

Post-Crisis, they've introduced a new version of Kathy (given the iffy status of the "sci-fi era" Bat-books, no idea if the original stories still stand at all, but probably not), only the modern version is a lesbian, which garnered some debate among fans. (The advertising seemed to emphasize an "OMG hot chick that likes other chicks" obnoxious pig attitude, but told the actual stories with her---where IIRC she was once the girlfriend of Renee Montoya of "Batman:TAS" fame---are supposedly more respectful than that).

Just to expand on this the current Batwoman was a military brat whose mother and sister were kidnapped and killed when she was young. She joined the military but was thrown out due to Don't Ask Don't Tell and spent many years without a sense of purpose because of that (she had her relationship with Renee at this point). When Batman jumped in to "save" her from being mugged (which she took care of herself by the time he got there) she got inspiration and found a way to do what she's always wanted to do but without the military.

With the help of her father (who is still in the military) she outfitted with high tech weapons and gadgets to help her fight crime in Gotham. She's become the target of the Religion of Crime, who believe her to be an iconic figure, and they stabbed her through the heart as part of a ritual.

The "OMG she's a lesbian" stuff was mainly the media overplaying the fact that a Bat character is gay, DC's advertising never played her like that. All of her comics have been respectful and treated her being a lesbian as a part of her character not her whole character.

Sorry I just don't like people incorrectly blaming DC for the media overhyping the lesbian aspect of her character.

ABrown

10-30-2010, 11:00 AM

Wow, that Katrina woman is hot! The Batman:Brave & The Bold creators definitively know how to draw a woman;).

Bat-Fan Beyond

10-30-2010, 01:21 PM

This episode was riot! I don't mean this in any insulting, discriminating, politically incorrect way, but how do you make Batman any more gay (for lack of a better word) than Adam West's campy act? Answer: Make him a woman! Batman asking Nightwing if he/she looks fat in his/her costume and asking Batgirl about what kind of shampoo she uses -- classic! I laughed my butt off! And I'm so glad they let Diedrich Bader do it without having the voices switched between the characters too.

Anthonynotes

10-30-2010, 01:57 PM

Just to expand on this the current Batwoman was a military brat whose mother and sister were kidnapped and killed when she was young. She joined the military but was thrown out due to Don't Ask Don't Tell and spent many years without a sense of purpose because of that (she had her relationship with Renee at this point). When Batman jumped in to "save" her from being mugged (which she took care of herself by the time he got there) she got inspiration and found a way to do what she's always wanted to do but without the military.

With the help of her father (who is still in the military) she outfitted with high tech weapons and gadgets to help her fight crime in Gotham. She's become the target of the Religion of Crime, who believe her to be an iconic figure, and they stabbed her through the heart as part of a ritual.

The "OMG she's a lesbian" stuff was mainly the media overplaying the fact that a Bat character is gay, DC's advertising never played her like that. All of her comics have been respectful and treated her being a lesbian as a part of her character not her whole character.

Sorry I just don't like people incorrectly blaming DC for the media overhyping the lesbian aspect of her character.

Thanks for the background info on the modern Batwoman. I wasn't blaming anyone---just that at least online hype for it (plus the media) had a "OMG lesbian" tone to a lot of her coverage... was told the actual comics weren't treating her as such (I haven't actually read them---these days I wouldn't touch mainstream DC Comics with a 10-foot pole...).

>>1. "Oh no, he pulled off the mask that covered all three inches of my face!"<<

Well, 1) as Bugs Bunny himself noted, villains (and apparently everyone else) always fall for cheesy disguises, and 2) this would be the same universe where everyone's fooled by Batman's fellow hero wearing a pair of glasses and combing his hair back. :-p

-B.

RoryWilliams

10-30-2010, 07:44 PM

It's probably the same thing that got the Justice Society changed to the Justice Guild in the two-part Justice League episode "Legends". DC had just launched a new JSA monthly series, and they didn't want the sales of that book to be sabotaged by a cartoon that basically just mocks those characters for an hour. So the names and costumes where changed just enough that longtime comic fans would still know who they were talking about while new readers wouldn't make the connection.

DC is putting out a Batwoman one-shot in November, with the intention of launching a monthly series from it later this year. While the current Batwoman is similar to the 50's version in name only (which is probably why there wasn't also a costume change this time), it's still enough to make DC nervous. Regardless, it's pretty obvious who this is supposed to be, even if the names "Batwoman" and "Kathy Kane" are never actually said in the episode.

I hadn't thought of that. Very astute observation there.

Yeah, it makes sense. It was a great episode, but it really made Batwoman looks like a joke at best and a villain at worst. I've only ever read the modern Batwoman, but I find it hard to swallow that the original Kathy Kane was THAT ANNOYING and incompetent.

M.O.D.O.K.

10-31-2010, 12:55 AM

Yeah, it makes sense. It was a great episode, but it really made Batwoman looks like a joke at best and a villain at worst. I've only ever read the modern Batwoman, but I find it hard to swallow that the original Kathy Kane was THAT ANNOYING and incompetent.

Well, from what I've read, though Kathy Kane was not a villain as shown here, she is pretty incompetent, usually showing up as Batman's unwanted partner, and sometimes getting herself in trouble due to her recklessness.

KillerMoth

10-31-2010, 01:18 AM

Well, from what I've read, though Kathy Kane was not a villain as shown here, she is pretty incompetent, usually showing up as Batman's unwanted partner, and sometimes getting herself in trouble due to her recklessness.
She was indeed that, the typical incompetent "damsel in distress" who would often get others in trouble. Ironic that a show lauded for being a reconstruction of the Silver age to deconstruct the character of Kathy Kane by showing what her flaws would lead her to, but I'm glad it did. I'm hoping we'll see her again in a more heroic role.

Although, I disagree she was portrayed as a joke, this version seemed fairly effective for the most part, only brought down by her pettiness (another trait from the comics) and bad acting. The Riddler getting the best of her is a similar trick Batman's succumbed to in this show.

Mixiboi

10-31-2010, 01:33 AM

Batman Forever reference!

Riddle me this, riddle me that, who's afraid of the big, black bat?

I was like "ugh" When he(Katrina as Batman) said it....

Yojimbo

10-31-2010, 03:54 AM

Batman Forever reference!

Riddle me this, riddle me that, who's afraid of the big, black bat?

I was like "ugh" When he(Katrina as Batman) said it....Neat. Thanks for pointing that out. I think I didn't recognize it because I purged that movie from my memory. :sad:

Well, from what I've read, though Kathy Kane was not a villain as shown here, she is pretty incompetent, usually showing up as Batman's unwanted partner, and sometimes getting herself in trouble due to her recklessness.I didn't read into her as incompetent just someone who didn't come from a tragic background like Batman or Robin, nor a cop family like Batgirl so she had no real sense of justice, good and evil, or right and wrong. So she was some sort of mash up of Batgirl, Vicki Vale, and Catwoman. She wanted to fight crime like Batgirl, a romantic interest like Vale, but a morally gray individual like Catwoman.

She was indeed that, the typical incompetent "damsel in distress" who would often get others in trouble. Ironic that a show lauded for being a reconstruction of the Silver age to deconstruct the character of Kathy Kane by showing what her flaws would lead her to, but I'm glad it did. I'm hoping we'll see her again in a more heroic role.

Although, I disagree she was portrayed as a joke, this version seemed fairly effective for the most part, only brought down by her pettiness (another trait from the comics) and bad acting. The Riddler getting the best of her is a similar trick Batman's succumbed to in this show.That's a good point. Deep but good. Maybe she'll come back with a 'Bianca Moldoff' at her side. ;)

I always thought she let her guard down too fast or had too much on her mind during fights and got distracted.

Hordesman

10-31-2010, 09:30 AM

She was indeed that, the typical incompetent "damsel in distress" who would often get others in trouble. Ironic that a show lauded for being a reconstruction of the Silver age to deconstruct the character of Kathy Kane by showing what her flaws would lead her to, but I'm glad it did. I'm hoping we'll see her again in a more heroic role.

She was very much a product of the time she was created, probably even a direct response to Wertham's allegations. I would say Batman's treatment of her has been updated too. In the original comics, his objections to her seemed less about her capabilities than her gender.
Http://web.archive.org/web/20070710222202/http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batwoman/BatwomanHistory.htm

In many ways, she was a silly character- her makeup arsenal showing up in modern times in the tongue-in-cheek Body Doubles and Totally Spies. And a recent silver age reprint trade featured stories where Alfred was writing what can only be called real person fan fiction about Batman and Batwoman marrying and starting a family.

Mister Intensity

10-31-2010, 12:50 PM

An OK episode, though a bit of a change to Batwoman from the Silver Age comics (where she wasn't this obnoxious).

Cute reference to the ending line of the classic late 50s movie "Some Like It Hot" that Faust gives toward the end...

On to....

Old-but-amusing comic references:

A shorter one this week...

Batwoman: Originally, Batwoman was wealthy socialite Kathy Kane, who first appeared in "Detective Comics" #233 in 1956 and was created by Sheldon Moldoff (hence her changed last name in this episode), noted for being one of DC's Golden and early Silver Age artists, including one of the main artists on the Batman titles in the 50s.

Kathy was an able crimefighter, but carried with her some sexist elements of her time-era (using "feminine" bat-gadgets in a "utility purse", and having some attraction to Bruce). She also eventually had her own sidekick, her niece Betty Kane, aka the original "Bat-Girl" (note the hyphen).

After the "New Look" Batman came along in 1964 (when Julius Schwartz took over and modernized the Bat-books), Kathy got tossed entirely (along with Bat-Girl). "Our" Batgirl came along several years later, and proved much more popular. Kathy made her next appearance in the late 70s where she briefly came out of retirement to help Batgirl, but was soon killed by the League of Assassins.

Post-Crisis, they've introduced a new version of Kathy (given the iffy status of the "sci-fi era" Bat-books, no idea if the original stories still stand at all, but probably not), only the modern version is a lesbian, which garnered some debate among fans. (The advertising seemed to emphasize an "OMG hot chick that likes other chicks" obnoxious pig attitude, but told the actual stories with her---where IIRC she was once the girlfriend of Renee Montoya of "Batman:TAS" fame---are supposedly more respectful than that).

The Spinner: Swami Ymar wore a suit made of spinning metal discs (giving him spinning abilities/some protection against gunfire and physical assault) and used a buzzsaw gun to commit various crimes in Gotham City until being apprehended by Batman, Batwoman, and Robin. First appeared in Batman #129 in 1960 and was created by Bill Finger (Batman's co-creator) and Sheldon Moldoff.

Next week:
Bat-bots? Shades of Kingdom Come (or the Superman Robots)? We'll see...

-B.

Here's something that Brainatra missed so I'm adding it.

Batman Family: This episode was a tribute to the comic book Batman Family which ran for 20 issues from 1975-1978. For the first 10 issues this book was a combination of new stories and reprints. The stars of most of the new stories were Robin and Batgirl. The reprints highlighted various members of the Batman family. Even numbered issues featured Batgirl and Robin solo stories, while odd numbered issues featured Batgirl and Robin team-ups, who were dubbed "The Dynamite Duo" in these stories. Issue 11 dropped the reprints and added a Man-Bat backup. Various forgotten Batman cast members often appeared in the Robin and Batgirl stories. Issue 10 featured the return of Batwoman for the first time in over a decade in the Batgirl story; she later appears in a Dynamite Duo story in 14. Issue 17 brought a format change to raise flagging sales by bringing in Batman as the lead story. Issue 17 also marked the first appearance of the Huntress. The title was cancelled with issue 20 but the Batman Family format carried over to Detective Comics for the next few months. The Spinner who the Batman Family faced in the episode appeared in Batman 129 but that story was reprinted in Batman Family 8.

The episode featured the Dynamite Duo, although in this episode it was Nightwing and Batgirl instead of Robin since in this continuity Batgirl first appears after Robin becomes Nightwing (whereas, depsite what post-Crisis continuity tells you, Robin becomes Nightwing after Batgirl was retired for the most part; they never teamed up as Nightwing and Batgirl during the pre-Crisis era).

Gold Guy

10-31-2010, 02:16 PM

This episode was okay, but not one of the better ones. I don't know why, I just didn't enjoy it as much as some of the others. I did like the whole body-switching thing, though. It was a good gimmick.

Yojimbo

10-31-2010, 10:22 PM

Robert McSantos gets the no-prize. Here's Ben Jones' musings on Batwoman:

It was DC's decision, but I don't think there were legal complications. They're usually pretty cool about variations on their characters, UNLESS the version you're doing turns out to be a villain when theirs is a hero. We might still have been fine, but they're currently launching a new Batwoman series that's very different from the version we wanted to use, so they may have been a little more sensitive than usual.Link: Formspring Reply (http://www.formspring.me/IdiotStyle/q/1450037827)

90'sCartoonMan

11-01-2010, 04:19 PM

One of the funniest episodes of the series, and the somewhat longer Atom/Aquaman teaser helped the fact that this was pretty much a Batman Family only episode (as was last week's, since he only teamed up with Bat-Mite).

It feels good to see Batgirl and Nightwing again, fighting alongside Batman and each other.

I loved his "unveiling" of Batwoman too, certainly one of more, or only, pragmatic things any villain on BTBATB has ever done :D

Didn't help that Katrina was actually pretty recognizable. If the same thing happened to, say, Robin, if he got his mask on before the cameras flashed, then no harm, no foul.

Except for the opening and Felix Faust, this was the most Gotham-centric episode yet. This could have easily been an episode of The New Batman Adventures and no one would have batted an eye.

Heck, I preferred this episode to Mystery of the Batwoman.

Although, I disagree she was portrayed as a joke, this version seemed fairly effective for the most part, only brought down by her pettiness (another trait from the comics) and bad acting. The Riddler getting the best of her is a similar trick Batman's succumbed to in this show.

She was still pretty reckless. That chandelier she brought down would've hit some civilians if Batman and Robin didn't save them and the batarangs she threw at Riddler mostly hit police cars. I don't blame Batman for leaving her there, he could've only hidden her for so long.

Mister Intensity

11-01-2010, 05:26 PM

I liked the fact that they explained why Batman disapproved of Batwoman because in the original comics he just came off as a sexist jerk when imploring her to quit (which goes to show that the "This is my city," Batjerk existed prior to the 90's).

They might as well called Batwoman, "Cougarwoman," the way she was flirting with Nightwing towards the end of the episode. Dick Grayson sure comes off as a horndog on this show between the way he carried on about Talia and now "Batlady." I never seen him act that way in the comics. Yeah the comics make a big deal about him being attractive to the ladies but Speedy was more of the horndog and Dick was more stoic. I'm glad that he got over his issues with Batman once he became Nightwing (just like the superior pre-Crisis version of Nightwing).

maczero

11-02-2010, 01:56 PM

They might as well called Batwoman, "Cougarwoman," the way she was flirting with NightwingTell me this happened while she was in Batman's body.:D

Road to Gotham

11-03-2010, 01:53 AM

At first I was disappointed in this episode.
I was excepting the Silver-Age Batwoman, Kathy Kane in a Light-Hearted Adventure with a possible Bette Kane(Bat-Girl) cameo.
Instead we got a fairly dark story with someone called , Katrina Moldoff in a
Batwoman custome.

After a second viewing I enjoyed this episode more.
Love the exchanges in the Bat-Cave between Batman(Kartina), Nightwing, and
Batgirl.
Bruce figuring out his center gravity and high heels.
Felix faust utters the classic final line from "Some Like It Hot". ;)

Good to see the Spinner and Tiger-Shark in action.

'B'

The teaser with Batman, Atom, and Aquaman was rather ho-hum.
'C'.

Kryten

11-07-2010, 01:38 AM

Wow, that Katrina woman is hot! The Batman:Brave & The Bold creators definitively know how to draw a woman;).

Mileage varies. I've never found the overdone Joan Crawford look even the slightest bit attractive. Really, if there's anything I dislike about the series, it's that most of the female character designs are incredibly ugly. Batgirl's one of the few that's okay.

Other than that, the episode was pretty good. I especially liked Batwomanman's hilarious line delivery.

The Dweller

11-07-2010, 01:45 PM

Is it just me or was this episode a straight up tribute to the last episode of classic Star Trek original series Turnabout Intruder?

Kirk gets body swapped with a ticked off ex, one of the thousands of girls in every port that he used to date who's especially bitter about the glass ceiling for females in the ranks of starship captains. In Kirk's body she rants, prances and otherwise femmes it up to the point of high camp and a vaguely misogynistic hysteria. In his ex's body Kirk has to convince Spock and McCoy it's him and get his body back.

Sound familiar?

The biggest diffeence is that Brave and Bold sort of makes it work. It's funny, it's considered the 'kids' Batman cartoon but the weird sexual politics and high camp in this episode and the... 'Aquaman's little fish' reference in the Birds of Prey episode... display a very adult sensibility.

Legion472

11-07-2010, 08:56 PM

Well how do you like that, for once the hero (Batwoman) is taken to jail and the villain (Felix Faust) is still out in the open instead of going to jail even though he was part of the evil plot.

Geodude

11-14-2010, 12:19 AM

Huh? Faust did nothing wrong. Batwoman didn't tell him exactly why she wanted the spell, and he reversed it with little resistance.

KillerMoth

11-14-2010, 01:55 AM

Huh? Faust did nothing wrong. Batwoman didn't tell him exactly why she wanted the spell, and he reversed it with little resistance.
Yeah, I wasn't under the impression he went to prison. Unless he was charged for illegal selling of spells or something.

Yojimbo

11-14-2010, 01:59 AM

Yeah, I wasn't under the impression he went to prison. Unless he was charged for illegal selling of spells or something.I figured the terms of his parole was no magical casting, binding, or manifestation under any conditions; and Riddler and Batwoman (if only to be examined by staff to determine if she were mentally fit, thus deciding where she'd serve her sentence) were taken to Arkham Asylum while Faust was being held in custody of Batman until the Blackgate or Iron Heights transport came for him.

AlgeaX

11-14-2010, 12:09 PM

This episode was...interesting, to say the least. I noticed the changes made to Batwoman: her backstory remains the same, except her name is changed from "Kathy Kane" to Katrina Moldoff, with the last name a homage to Sheldon Moldoff, one of the aliases used by Bob Kane. Also, she is much more vindictive and villainous than her comic book counterpart, who was reckless but well-meaning. Finally, was she even referred to a "Batwoman" in this episode. I heard the name "Bat Lady" twice, so I'll probably need to re-watch. These changes are interesting, and I'm curious to learn the motive behind them.

My guess is the creative team wants to be able to use the Modern Age Kathy Kane version of Batwoman somewhere down the line, so they create Katrina Moldoff as a stand in for the Silver Age Batwoman.

adoptedBatpuppy

12-02-2010, 12:12 AM

Great Episode! So funny! I'm surprized that Katrina did not think to see who Batman really was under that mask. Loved the variety of Garden Villains so to speak! It's always a treat to see Nightwing again....
The ending reminded me of my all time favorite musical movie: "Some Like It Hot" :D
Did anyone else got that vibe? Especially, with Felix Faust's "Nobody's Perfect" line...

Chocky

12-04-2010, 07:21 PM

Loved Batwoman's name change to Moldoff!

Maximum respect to Tucker & Co for that :D

That really crystalized for me why the show is so awesome, great fondness and respect for all creators and styles of Batman.

ShadowStar

01-13-2011, 06:24 AM

In a way, it might have been better if the body swapping business with Felix Faust had been jettisoned altogether and it had simply been about the Gotham Knights trying to foil assassination attempts by Batwoman on the Riddler. I say this because 'Batman' and Riddler didn't cross paths until two-thirds of the way through the episode when it should've happened earlier. That's what you get when there's that much set-up. Consequently, the final third of the episode felt slightly rushed.

Still, the "Because I hate him hate him hate him!" scene was well worth the price of admission. :D It was a humorous episode, though I would've liked to have seen more of Nightwing and Batgirl. Speaking of Batgirl, she has a much better design than her The Batman counterpart but the voice shouldn't be so... 'spunky'. She sounds a bit too excitable, like The Batman's Batgirl did.

I'm just glad the episode improved after that teaser.