''The Incredible Hulk'' animated series from 1996 comes to Marvel.com

[dmxx116]

Jump for joy, Hulk Fans, because "The Incredible Hulk" smashes into Marvel.com today!
Now fans can watch Bruce Banner as he continues his unending struggle to control the Hulk while battling villains and eluding the unrelenting General Thunderbolt Ross in "The Incredible Hulk".
First airing on the UPN network in September 1996, you can now tune in and experience a "new" action-packed episode every Tuesday on Marvel.com!

http://marvel.com/news/moviestories.14343.watch_the_incredible_hulk_~op~1996~ep~_now~excl~

And you can talk about Return of the Beast Part 1 episode right below this link:

http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83821

[Jeffrey Logan]

Good news! If The Incredible Hulk gets uploaded to Marvel.com, then it's safe to assume that Iron Man and Fantastic Four will be next.

[macattack]

The animation quality drop from the 1st episode to the remaining 12 of the first season is noticeable, but compared to other Marvel toons at the time the first season had high production values, the animation studio was simply unused to doing an action cartoon and didn't quite know what they were doing. The writing, acting, and directing, while there's cheesy moments in all of them, are generally better than other 90's Marvel toons as well. It's also extremely dark for the time as well. The producers set out to create the best action cartoon they could with what they had and made some good creative choices. Basically, they combined a good story that updated classic Hulk stories (with new twists) with the need to make kids buy the toy line and merch.

The 2nd season, however, the producers were fired and the show's quality in every aspect crumbled. Not much else to say. If the original producers had stayed, there was probably a chance they could have made UPN's mandates work in a way that wouldn't have been as detrimental (the 2nd season still would've had some decay, though). But, the more I find out about what UPN wanted, it was probably a hopeless cause.

[TMC1982]

Who exactly were the "geniuses" at UPN, who insisted that She-Hulk needed to be a regular character (in order to blatantly attract more female viewers) and that the tone needed to be "lighter"? It's quite apparent that these people didn't fully understand the Hulk mythos in that he's always been a tragic, extremely flawed character (a modern day Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde). Why agree to air a Hulk show in the first place if they didn't understand that going in? That would be like making an X-Men show without all of the conflict involving acceptance between normal humans and mutants (and what comes in between like Magneto).

[the greenman]

Did they ever complete this series on R1 dvd?

[macattack]

Who exactly were the "geniuses" at UPN, who insisted that She-Hulk needed to be a regular character (in order to blatantly attract more female viewers) and that the tone needed to be "lighter"? It's quite apparent that these people didn't fully understand the Hulk mythos in that he's always been a tragic, extremely flawed character (a modern day Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde). Why agree to air a Hulk show in the first place if they didn't understand that going in? That would be like making an X-Men show without all of the conflict involving acceptance between normal humans and mutants (and what comes in between like Magneto).

There's an interview with Dick Sebast (a producer of the 90's Hulk cartoon) that discusses this on the Marvel Animation Age. Check the "Hosted Sites" tab to find said site, and check the 90's Hulk homepage.

But I'll summarize it for you anyway:

UPN saw that Spider-Man and X-Men had become really popular so they wanted their own flagship Marvel character. By that point, the Hulk was the most significant character left for UPN. Marvel had wanted to get a Hulk show on the air for ages so they committed to UPN. But trouble quickly started.

TMS, the overseas animation studio initially tapped, was overloaded. Their rather poor work animating Spider-Man: TAS is a testament to this. TMS only got episode 1 done and pieces of other episodes. The only studio they could find on short notice was the Korean studio Sae Rom, which specialized in comedy programming. Sae Rom didn't really know what they were doing, so there's occasional awkward moments in the animation.

But that was a small issue compared to Sebast's and the production company's real issue: the executive assigned to the show.

According to Sebast, she didn't "get" the Hulk at all and had an obsession with fashion. Sebast and the production company made the decision to ignore her requests and made most of the creative choices, the only concessions made being working something in from the toy line. When the episodes were delivered, well . . . how would you react if your underlings ignored everything you ordered? The executive fired nearly everybody and had a new staff put together that would "toe the line" as Sebast put it.

Considering season 2 had a fashion-themed episode and greatly minimized Bruce Banner's conflicts, Sebast's rather thin, exaggerated portrayal of the UPN executive probably isn't far from the mark. Greg Johnson, one of the people who survived the staff makeover, said that season 2's ratings weren't as terrible as assumed . . . though the fact remains that season 2 stopped five episodes short of a full season so what have you.

There's a lot we don't know about this production because nobody seems to like talking about it that much. But basically what I've said is the public information about the behind-the-scenes issues that plagued the Hulk cartoon.

[TMC1982]

But that was a small issue compared to Sebast's and the production company's real issue: the executive assigned to the show.

For the life of me, I would love to find out this woman's name who "didn't get" the Hulk. :mad:

[dmxx116]

The Incredible Hulk would have been better on Fox Kids along with Spider-Man and X-Men in 1996 or Kid WB for that matter.

[macattack]

For the life of me, I would love to find out this woman's name who "didn't get" the Hulk. :mad:

Nobody wants to be a whistle-blower, so until an important member of the 90's Hulk cartoon retires from the animation business, we will never know the woman's name . . . if her name is even remembered by the retiring staff member.

Part of the reason why John Semper has had difficulty picking up consistent employment is because he has called out his former bosses. That's why no one on the Hulk staff wants to name the UPN executive. And likely why we don't know more about the turmoil behind the scenes.

By the way, the R1 release never went beyond four episodes. The complete series has been sold in the UK.

[macattack]

A post-script of sorts:

Bob Forward, a lead writer from season 1, was one of two writers who were retained for season 2 (the other was Meg McLaughlin). Bob Forward wrote two episodes of season 2, the "transition" episode Hulk of a Different Color and then the Joe Fixit episode that showed up mid-season.

I think the Joe Fixit episode is basically a rushed, bowdlerized version of what season 2 initially would have been. There are implications that Fixit became a force in Chicago for months, though we never see it. Also it was pretty much the only episode that wasn't trying to be a buddy show comedy all of the time (and it was also the least aggravating appearance of She-Hulk in season 2, not that it's saying much). It's not hard to infer what happened: Forward was allowed to bring in his plot for season 2, but he had to condense it, bring in She-Hulk, and set it up as to not affect the status quo post-episode.

So yeah, watch the Fixit episode and you can see glimpses of what the original plan for season 2 probably would have been, minus She-Hulk and the random stupidity that signaled the end of the road.

[macattack]

I feel like beating a dead horse at this point but here's a piece of an interview with John Semper. The interview can be found at the Marvel Animation Age in the Spider-Man section. The interview is mostly about Spider-Man but then this question comes up:


MAA: You later wrote two episodes of UPN's The Incredible Hulk (and She-Hulk, by that point). How did writing for that series compare with Spider-Man on Fox?


Semper: Creatively, there is no comparison between working on that series and working on mine. They had a fraction of my budget and I suppose they did the best they could. But I don't count it as one of my best TV experiences. I've never even seen the finished versions of the episodes I wrote. I only worked on it for the money.

So yeah, season 2 was far below season 1's budget (and below the fairly crappy Spider-Man budget) if that's true, and in all likelihood Semper's pair of scripts got really messed with (doesn't help that Semper didn't really care). Though one Semper script was the "fashion" episode, which is arguably the worst one of the lot (it's either that or the "Hollywood" one I think). However, Semper also wrote the Dr. Strange episode which is one of the better 2nd season eps though that's not saying much (it does have some good points, SH doesn't brag as much and Dr. Strange is a fairly compelling character who manages to salvage some of the dreck).

[TMC1982]

It's kind of interesting that Disney XD is currently cycling through the horrific second season of Hulk while at the same time, running the second seasons of the 1990s Fantastic Four and Iron Man series (the ones which were vast improvements over the Ron Friedman led trash from the year prior).

[JTMarsh]

The Incredible Hulk would have been better on Fox Kids along with Spider-Man and X-Men in 1996 or Kid WB for that matter.
Assuming the guys at Fox didn't grossly emasculate the Hulk the way they grossly emasculated Spider-Man: "When Hulk does his mile jumps he can't scare any pigeons when he lands", "Hulk can't actually hit anyone, not even his fellow monsters", etc.

[macattack]

Assuming the guys at Fox didn't grossly emasculate the Hulk the way they grossly emasculated Spider-Man: "When Hulk does his mile jumps he can't scare any pigeons when he lands", "Hulk can't actually hit anyone, not even his fellow monsters", etc.

Dick Sebast went on the record as saying S&P didn't care so much about Hulk violence because of the Hulk's size. The Hulk's size meant in order for there to be excitement, he had to battle giant mecha and huge monsters. S&P was mainly concerned about harm actually being done to humans, as opposed to monsters and machines. Of course, this is UPN's S&P I'm talking about but I think Fox Kids wouldn't have minded the level of Hulk violence that we got in the first season.

[dmxx116]

Here the first season of The Incredible Hulk from Marvel.com.

1 Return of the Beast Part 1 http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1581/the_incredible_hulk_1996_episode_1

2 Return of the Beast Part 2
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1595/the_incredible_hulk_1996_episode_2

3 Raw Power
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1608/the_incredible_hulk_1996_episode_3

4 Helping Hand, Iron Fist
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1616/the_incredible_hulk_1996_season_1-_ep_4

5 Innocent Blood
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1630/the_incredible_hulk_1996_season_1-_ep_6

6 Man to Man, Beast to Beast
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1621/the_incredible_hulk_1996_season_1-_ep_5

7 Doomed
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1644/the_incredible_hulk_1996_season_1-_ep_7

8 Fantastic Fortitude
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1653/the_incredible_hulk_1996_season_1-_ep_8

9 Mortal Bounds
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1657/the_incredible_hulk_1996_season_1-_ep_9

10 And the Wind Cries... Wendigo
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1676/the_incredible_hulk_1996_season_1-_ep_10

11 Darkness and Light Part 1
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1685/the_incredible_hulk_1996_season_1-_ep_11

12 Darkness and Light Part 2
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1689/the_incredible_hulk_1996_season_1-_ep_12

13 Darkness and Light Part 3
http://marvel.com/videos/watch/1703/the_incredible_hulk_1996_season_1-_ep_13