Walt Disney Television Animation - Japan discussion/question

[DarthGonzo]

Thanks to the BOOM! comics I'm once again back into Darkwing Duck, which basically happens every couple of years for almost two decades now. I enjoy analyzing the different studios involved with the show and since the Australian studio wouldn't come into their own until Goof Troop I really have to say the Japanese studio is my favorite of all the animation houses utilized on the show.

It's fascinating to watch a Japanese-animated episode of a '90s Disney show and see the animation jump around from style to style. What's odd about Darkwing Duck is that there are two sets of episodes animated by WDTA-Japan that have two distinct style.

The first set includes...
Calm a Chameleon
Darkly Dawns the Dark part 2
Negaduck
Toys Czar Us
Life, The Negaverse and Everything
Stressed to Kill
Dead Duck
Can't Bayou Love

While the second set includes...
Smarter Than a Speeding Bullet
Planet of the Capes
Duck Blind
Let's Get Respectable
Slaves to Fashion

There's a distinct difference between the two styles. The second style looks great but doesn't really have the bounce, color palette or the visual appeal of the first style. It was a while before I even realized this second group of episodes were animated by the same studio. Speedy Boris' blog credits Atelier Bwca, Studio Jack, Jade Animation Productions, and Tama for their additional support and I've yet to watch the episodes in question and piece who worked on which episodes. If anyone knows the answer without my having to check I'd love to know.

Regarding the first group of episodes, I love the occasions when the animation would really get bouncy, with lots of squash and stretch and rapid arm movements. The episodes of Negaverse and the lullaby from Darkly Dawns the Duck part 2 are examples of this.

[steet]

To me Walt Disney Japan commited the best animation for TaleSpin too, well above all the others (followed by the France division, but with a totally different style that I don't like as much).
Sometimes, their animation is so smooth that it looks like there is a better framerate that matches the feature films!

For TaleSpin, I think the list includes :

- Time Waits for No Bear
- Mommy for a Day
- I Only Have Ice for You
- Vowel Play
- Stormy Weather (with Hanho Heung-up)
- All's Whale That Ends Whale
- The Golden Sprocket of Friendship
- For a Fuel Dollars More (with Hanho Heung-up)
- A Star Is Torn
- A Spy in the Ointment
- The Balooest of the Blue Bloods
- A Baloo Switcheroo
- Double or Nothing (with Hanho Heung-up)
- Flight of the snow duck (with Hanho Heung-up)
- Save the Tiger (my fave episode <3 )
- Captains Outrageous (with Hanho Heung-up)
- Plunder and Lightning (part 3)
- Gruel and Unusual Punishment
- Jumping the guns (with Hanho Heung-up)
- In search of ancient blunders (with Hanho Heung-up)
- Bullethead Baloo

Contrary to Darkwing, I only see one style for the Japan TS episodes (except the ones done in collaboration with Hanho Heung-up, maybe)

The other companies DID do some good job sometimes, like Sun Woo Animation with "Last Horizons" which I really assumed to be done by the Japan staff, considering the animation's very good.

[ahem]

Gonzo,

Is there a reason why they are in two groups? Were they made during separate periods?

Just out of interest, why do you praise Japan's stretch and squash but not Kennedys?

[Hiya Animation]

Every time I hear about a Japanese studio working for an American company doing close-to-fully-animated work (like on the best episodes of the old WB shows) I just imagine the animators going:

"WHAT? We actually have to animate to a pre-recorded SOUNDTRACK and do real LIP-SYNC??? That's way too much work! I'm gonna go work on Pokemon Season 1055 instead."

---

Seriously though, a lot of great episodes of the early 90s shows from Disney and WB came from Japan. TMS anyone? They were (And are? Do they still exist?) one of the best studios out there.

[DarthGonzo]

Gonzo,

Is there a reason why they are in two groups? Were they made during separate periods?

Not at all. But if you compare these two groups you'll that despite the animation being credited to WDTA-Japan you'll see that they do look quite different for the reasons I stated. They must have had two different teams working on the episodes that were sent to Japan. I'm not really sure how that worked.


Just out of interest, why do you praise Japan's stretch and squash but not Kennedys?

I do like a lot of Kennedy's stuff, especially when McClenahan was animating for them, but comparing Japan and Kennedy is like comparing a gourmet steak to a Big Mac.

[Classic Speedy]

The credits for all the Japan episodes list the same overseas animation directors every time (see below), but there are multiple names listed. So my guess (and bear in mind, it is strictly a guess, so don't go around saying it's a fact) is Disney just lumped all the names together, regardless of whether they happened to work on the episode in question or not. For all we know, there could've been different "units" and we'd never know which unit was the best one because every WD Japan artist who ever worked on the show is always credited.

Typical DWD episode by WD Japan looks like this:
Animation by: Walt Disney Television Animation (Japan)
Animation Supervisor: Shigeru Yamamoto
Layout: Tsugo Kubo
Directors: Saburo Hashimoto, Kiyotaka Kantake, Yukio Okazaki.
Animation Directors, Animators, Backgrounds, etc.


TMS anyone? They were (And are? Do they still exist?) one of the best studios out there. They definitely are (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Movie_Shinsha#2000s). They just don't do overseas work anymore. I'm not sure the reason for this; perhaps they started to cost too much money or were satisfied with working on just their own country's output. Or maybe U.S. companies found what they felt were superior studios which cost less money than TMS. Maybe it was a combo of all three. Not really sure.

[Zen Man]

The credits for all the Japan episodes list the same overseas animation directors every time (see below), but there are multiple names listed. So my guess (and bear in mind, it is strictly a guess, so don't go around saying it's a fact) is Disney just lumped all the names together, regardless of whether they happened to work on the episode in question or not. For all we know, there could've been different "units" and we'd never know which unit was the best one because every WD Japan artist who ever worked on the show is always credited.

Typical DWD episode by WD Japan looks like this:
Animation by: Walt Disney Television Animation (Japan)
Animation Supervisor: Shigeru Yamamoto
Layout: Tsugo Kubo
Directors: Saburo Hashimoto, Kiyotaka Kantake, Yukio Okazaki.
Animation Directors, Animators, Backgrounds, etc.

They definitely are (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Movie_Shinsha#2000s). They just don't do overseas work anymore. I'm not sure the reason for this; perhaps they started to cost too much money or were satisfied with working on just their own country's output. Or maybe U.S. companies found what they felt were superior studios which cost less money than TMS. Maybe it was a combo of all three. Not really sure.


I often wonder how a TMS Darkwing Duck episode would've turned out if they had gotten a chance to animate an episode.Same thing for Gargoyles.

[DarthGonzo]

I often wonder how a TMS Darkwing Duck episode would've turned out if they had gotten a chance to animate an episode.Same thing for Gargoyles.

Probably something along the lines of what Tiny Toons looked like at the time. Personally I think TMS had a tendency of looking a little too Japanese at times, while the WDTA-Japan episodes of Darkwing Duck had more of a western, Disney feel to them. I personally love the A-unit Japanese DW shows, and I cant imagine trading them for TMS animation.

That said, I think the look the Australian shows went for was closest to the style the people behind the show were going for when it was first conceived. My guess is if Darkwing Duck was created a year later WTDA-Australia would have been the main animation house for the show and would have contributed to the basic ongoing "look" of the show the way they did with Goof Troop and Bonkers. Unfortunately, that didn't really play out on Darkwing Duck - a show which took place during a major transitional period for Walt Disney Television Animation - and in the end Sunwoo and Hanho Heung-Up were the companies that gave the show it's basic "look".

Looking at early concept art and model sheets for the show and comparing it to "That Sinking Feeling" (the first show recorded and the first one aired) and "A Duck By Any Other Name" (the second episode in production order) you can see that the more angular, European style is probably closer to what the people behind the show wanted over the rounder, traditional look of the Japanese studio. But Darkwing seemed very experimental, and throwing the Japan, Australia and France studios, Sunwoo, Hanho, Wang and Kennedy at the show resulted in a series that - moreso than any Disney series from that era - didn't really have much of a unified look and consistent style. That only started happening late in the syndicated run and into the second ABC season. And part of the reason I'm not a huge fan of the second Saturday morning run is because of how consistent and visually stagnant the show looked by then. This is especially obvious when you compare these 13 episodes with the original ABC run, which featured six episodes animated in Australia and three in Japan, making that collection of episodes probably the most visually interesting of the show's entire run.

Honestly it's the extremely quirky and expressive Australian animation in "That Sinking Feeling" that attracted me to the show in the first place. And since I missed the Sunday premiere of the pilot, I was disappointed that so much of the first few weeks of the syndicated run were animated by Sunwoo.

[Zen Man]

Probably something along the lines of what Tiny Toons looked like at the time. Personally I think TMS had a tendency of looking a little too Japanese at times, while the WDTA-Japan episodes of Darkwing Duck had more of a western, Disney feel to them. I personally love the A-unit Japanese DW shows, and I cant imagine trading them for TMS animation.

That said, I think the look the Australian shows went for was closest to the style the people behind the show were going for when it was first conceived. My guess is if Darkwing Duck was created a year later WTDA-Australia would have been the main animation house for the show and would have contributed to the basic ongoing "look" of the show the way they did with Goof Troop and Bonkers. Unfortunately, that didn't really play out on Darkwing Duck - a show which took place during a major transitional period for Walt Disney Television Animation - and in the end Sunwoo and Hanho Heung-Up were the companies that gave the show it's basic "look".

Looking at early concept art and model sheets for the show and comparing it to "That Sinking Feeling" (the first show recorded and the first one aired) and "A Duck By Any Other Name" (the second episode in production order) you can see that the more angular, European style is probably closer to what the people behind the show wanted over the rounder, traditional look of the Japanese studio. But Darkwing seemed very experimental, and throwing the Japan, Australia and France studios, Sunwoo, Hanho, Wang and Kennedy at the show resulted in a series that - moreso than any Disney series from that era - didn't really have much of a unified look and consistent style. That only started happening late in the syndicated run and into the second ABC season. And part of the reason I'm not a huge fan of the second Saturday morning run is because of how consistent and visually stagnant the show looked by then. This is especially obvious when you compare these 13 episodes with the original ABC run, which featured six episodes animated in Australia and three in Japan, making that collection of episodes probably the most visually interesting of the show's entire run.

Honestly it's the extremely quirky and expressive Australian animation in "That Sinking Feeling" that attracted me to the show in the first place. And since I missed the Sunday premiere of the pilot, I was disappointed that so much of the first few weeks of the syndicated run were animated by Sunwoo.

I'll tend to agree with you about TMS. Though the animation would be beautiful, they probably would've never ' totally gotten' Darkwing and would've held back a bit. The show was always fast-paced with the perfect blend of action and pure slapstick and WDTA-Japan,Wang and WDTA-Australia really did a good job at conveying that. Like you, I wish Australia had gotten more opportunities to work with Darkwing; but the show was a terrific starting point for their future awesome work on Goof Troop, Bonkers and some episodes of Aladdin. It's kinda disappointing that animation studios don't experiment with different production houses like they did in the 80's and 90's; it was fun to identify and compare the different styles and quirks that each would use.

[Classic Speedy]

I always thought "Water Way to Go" was the first in production order? It has a 001 as its number, while "That Sinking Feeling" has a 007. Incidentally, I find it strange that "Sinking" looks better than "Comic Book Capers", despite being lower on the production order.

To be honest, I never saw how TMS was too Japanese. Their work on Tiny Toons, for example, didn't look like an anime, and had the same squash and stretch principles that your typical American cartoon had, and the crew didn't work in anime-esque sight gags that weren't in the layouts/storyboards (something which Kennedy DID do, that is, work in their own visual quirks such as dancing in those early TTA episodes that weren't supposed to be there).

I do agree that WD Japan's A-unit was quality, though. I didn't even think the differences between DWD's A and B units were as obvious as, say, on Bonkers. With that show, it was painfully obvious which were the good and mediocre Japan episodes. Heck, if you didn't know the credits beforehand, it was understandable to assume certain WD Japan episodes were by another studio, like Sunwoo. A lot of the Miranda episodes (minus "Do Toons Dream of Animated Sheep?", which was excellently-animated) fell into this, largely due to being assisted by smaller studios like Animal House and Morning Sun.

[DarthGonzo]

I always thought "Water Way to Go" was the first in production order? It has a 001 as its number, while "That Sinking Feeling" has a 007. Incidentally, I find it strange that "Sinking" looks better than "Comic Book Capers", despite being lower on the production order.

"Water Way to Go" is first in production order. But production numbers - while good when taken as a whole when figuring out continuity and which characters were introduced when - don't necessarily indicate episode production and completion. It seems obvious to me that "That Sinking Feeling" was intended as the first episode. It was recorded first and aired first and it seems to me that care was taken with the animation in order to make it as appealing as possible. Having just watched the episode today, I noticed the first 4 minutes or so are almost flawlessly animated.


To be honest, I never saw how TMS was too Japanese. Their work on Tiny Toons, for example, didn't look like an anime, and had the same squash and stretch principles that your typical American cartoon had, and the crew didn't work in anime-esque sight gags that weren't in the layouts/storyboards (something which Kennedy DID do, that is, work in their own visual quirks such as dancing in those early TTA episodes that weren't supposed to be there). No, the TMS animation on shows like Tiny Toons and Animanacs doesn't look obviously Japanese. But there's still little things such as run cycles and the basic look of certain human characters that just scream "Japanese" to me, This is especially true of low production run Animaniacs episodes such as "Taming of the Screwy" which couldn't look more Japanese if it tried.


I do agree that WD Japan's A-unit was quality, though. I didn't even think the differences between DWD's A and B units were as obvious as, say, on Bonkers. With that show, it was painfully obvious which were the good and mediocre Japan episodes. Heck, if you didn't know the credits beforehand, it was understandable to assume certain WD Japan episodes were by another studio, like Sunwoo. A lot of the Miranda episodes (minus "Do Toons Dream of Animated Sheep?", which was excellently-animated) fell into this, largely due to being assisted by smaller studios like Animal House and Morning Sun.It's really easy to tell the A-unit Japan episodes of Darkwing from the B-unit episodes. The difference is basically night and day.

[Classic Speedy]

It's really easy to tell the A-unit Japan episodes of Darkwing from the B-unit episodes. The difference is basically night and day. It is noticeable. I'm just saying that the difference was even more noticeable on Bonkers. You had the fantastic stuff like the aforementioned "Sheep" and "Calling All Cars", but then you had "Hand Over the Dough" (which I did mistake for Sunwoo before looking at the credits!) and "Cartoon Cornered", which didn't look much better than your typical TV budget.

Goof Troop's Japan animation seemed pretty consistent throughout, but then again Japan barely worked on that show.

Not being as well-versed in Aladdin, did that show seem to have A unit and B units as well when it came to Japan's animation? I can't remember.

[DarthGonzo]

Not being as well-versed in Aladdin, did that show seem to have A unit and B units as well when it came to Japan's animation? I can't remember.

Yup. Compare "Getting the Bugs Out" with "Power to the Parrot". Both WDTA-Japan. But different as night and day.

[Hordesman]

These studios didn't operate in a vacuum. You do have to consider both their budget and the sorts of reference material sent over (storyboards, layout, model sheets, walk cycles and any diagrams of props the overseas animators might not know of). Did these studios vary in quality? Sure, but like I said, there were other elements at work.

[steet]

If some of you are interested, here are some more information for Disney Japan and Talespin, from Gregory Weagle :

" [1.] There are several different credit lists under WD-Japan. The first episodes (I Only Have Ice For You, Mommy For A Day, Time Waits For No Bear...) have the Walt Disney Animation Japan with no credits for animators. It's also a misnomer to call it Walt Disney Animation Japan since they didn't officially become that until 1991. Walt Disney Animation of Japan was basically the bought out Pacific Animation Company (Thundercats, Silverhawks) combined with TMS members and a defunct unit of Sanrio; all in Japan.
- The second list is Walt Disney/Hanho Heung Up and that one applies to all but three episodes. However; a few WD-Japan/Hanho Heung Up episodes do not have credits either (Stormy Weather, For A Fuel Dollars More are examples of this.
- Save The Tiger and All's Whale That Ends Whale had additional services done by Jade Animation.
- Vowel Play had additional services done by TamaPro (now known as Drop Animation).

[2.] Speedy Boris showed the Darkwing Duck list for Walt Disney Japan; here's the list for TaleSpin
Directors: Saburo Hashimoto, Shigeru Kimiya, Yasumi Mikamoto, Rokoh Ogihara, Yukio Okazaki
Animation Supervisors: Tsuguyuki Kubo*, Shigeru Yamamoto
Animation Directors: Takeshi Atomura, Ritsuko Notami
Animator: Tadakatsu Yoshida
Background Layout: Minoru Nishida
Layout: Tadakatsu Yoshida
Tsuguyuki Kubo is not credited among them; but my research states that he worked on the project. I'm not certain how many worked on the TaleSpin project and the chances of knowing how many actually did are slim and none at this point. I also know that overseas animation manager Catherine Winder is also uncredited.
If you like more here's the link on my Supplemental for Walt Disney Animation Japan: http://gregory-weagle.livejournal.com/172970.html (http://gregory-weagle.livejournal.com/172970.html) . I also included Tama Pro since at least one of the directors also worked for WD-Japan also worked for Tama Pro: http://gregory-weagle.livejournal.com/185482.html (http://gregory-weagle.livejournal.com/185482.html)
I got links to my research; plus lots of information.

[3.] Not all Ducktales episodes credited by TMS were done by TMS; at least two episodes were done by Telecom Animation in Japan. The Wuzzles were also done mostly by Telecom Animation.
It's fairly easy to tell which animation studio did what in TaleSpin. The key is the overseas animation director. There was none for Walt Disney Animation France/London, Brian Ray did most of the Walt Disney Animation Japan episodes, Bob Baxter did Wang Films and Russell Mooney did Sunwoo. At least that is the case of most episodes released in 1990 (I think Brian Ray did a Wang Films episode On A Wing & A Bear). In 1991; Mike Fallows from Nelvana (along with John Flagg, David Thrasher and Dale Schott) joined and I believe did the Sunwoo animation in place of Russell Mooney.
My concern about animation are different than most. I'm aware that this is television animation and it will never get up to the standards of feature. However; I do ding studios for blown spots and spots that break internal logic. Kennedy's major problems were not the style as much as it was them blowing spots so badly that it broke internal logic (See Up, Up & Awry for a prime example of this)"