Could Batman take down anyone in the Universe?

[CyberCubed]

We've seen Batman take out just about everyone and anyone more powerful than a normal human. Darkseid, Superman, etc.

Could Batman have a plan to take out anyone in the entire universe? It seems like sometimes Batman is literally God himself and he can do anything. If a God exists in the DC universe, Batman could probably have a plan to take him out too.

Since Batman is the underdog, they also treat him as if he's better than everyone else. Can Batman take on the entire universe?

[Bat-Fan Beyond]

YES, because he's...


THE BATMAN!

[BigFatHairyDeal]

We've seen Batman take out just about everyone and anyone more powerful than a normal human. Darkseid, Superman, etc.

Could Batman have a plan to take out anyone in the entire universe? It seems like sometimes Batman is literally God himself and he can do anything. If a God exists in the DC universe, Batman could probably have a plan to take him out too.

Since Batman is the underdog, they also treat him as if he's better than everyone else. Can Batman take on the entire universe?

Yes, because he's a fictional character and a writer can make him do anything the writer wants.

But this has probably become one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, farcical comic book debates of all time. It's funny to make jokes how Batman would beat anyone with enough prep time, but it's sort of irritating when you run into somebody who argues that seriously. Those arguments always end up with making everyone else Scooby-Doo villain stupid, so Batman could conjure any ridiculous scheme to come out on top.

I also wouldn't say Batman "took out" Darkseid, either.

[Superpan]

The question is not can Batman take on the universe, but if he can take on ALL of them! At once!

[Bloody Marquis]

Since time wore Bruce down by BB, you could say Destiny is the one being that Batman can't take down (whether it be.fate in general or Destiny of the Endless).

[Yojimbo]

Since time wore Bruce down by BB, you could say Destiny is the one being that Batman can't take down (whether it be.fate in general or Destiny of the Endless).Time and all those roasted pheasants. ;)

[theRedDeath]

I wish someone would make a youtube video of all the times Batman got punked, knocked out, or sucker-punched in the DCAU (well...mostly B:TAS).

Then when people make topics like these, I could just post a link to the video.

---

[Michael24]

The question is not can Batman take on the universe, but if he can take on ALL of them! At once!
And with Chuck Norris leading the pack. :D


I wish someone would make a youtube video of all the times Batman got punked, knocked out, or sucker-punched in the DCAU (well...mostly B:TAS).

Then when people make topics like these, I could just post a link to the video.
LOL!! True. To me, it's similar to the situation of how many people think James Bond turned into a sissy when Roger Moore played him, but then when you watch his movies, you realize that's not the case, even if the movies themselves got more light-hearted.

[KillerMoth]

Yeah, I despise the Batman that is the ultimate warrior in the DC universe that could take anyone down with enough prep-time. It is a terrifically boring and juvenile take on the character that completely undermines his basic concept as just a man in favour of a silly "underdog" story that so many fall for. That is my basic feeling on the subject.

Though BTBATB is the only time where I feel the Batgod take works, since he still fails many times in the grand scheme and is not nearly the self-righteous cynical jerk he often is in the comics.

[Silverstar]

Yes, because he's a fictional character and a writer can make him do anything the writer wants.

But this has probably become one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, farcical comic book debates of all time. It's funny to make jokes how Batman would beat anyone with enough prep time, but it's sort of irritating when you run into somebody who argues that seriously. Those arguments always end up with making everyone else Scooby-Doo villain stupid, so Batman could conjure any ridiculous scheme to come out on top.


Yeah, I despise the Batman that is the ultimate warrior in the DC universe that could take anyone down with enough prep-time. It is a terrifically boring and juvenile take on the character that completely undermines his basic concept as just a man in favour of a silly "underdog" story that so many fall for. That is my basic feeling on the subject.

Though BTBATB is the only time where I feel the Batgod take works, since he still fails many times in the grand scheme and is not nearly the self-righteous cynical jerk he often is in the comics.

Since you guys basically said what I would've said, I'll just add this tidbit:

Fanboyism (n) : The belief that Batman could win any and every hypothetical battle that he could ever be placed in.

-Also, when did Batman "take out" Darkseid? I just remember him dodging Darkseid's Omega Beams in "Destroyer". Not exactly the same thing as "taking him out".

[Bat-Fan Beyond]

Yeah, I despise the Batman that is the ultimate warrior in the DC universe that could take anyone down with enough prep-time. It is a terrifically boring and juvenile take on the character that completely undermines his basic concept as just a man in favour of a silly "underdog" story that so many fall for. That is my basic feeling on the subject.

Though BTBATB is the only time where I feel the Batgod take works, since he still fails many times in the grand scheme and is not nearly the self-righteous cynical jerk he often is in the comics.

True, Batman will always find a way, and is the ultimate tactician and strategist, as well as detective, but there should be more times when we see his limitations instead of always making him out to be Batgod. The idea was originally intended as an ironic twist that the powerless human being can outwit and prevail where the most powerful of superbeings fail. It's a premise that successfully works often for the character, but I agree it has become overplayed. When Miller's Dark Knight Returns came out, I loved the idea that Batman took out Superman, but when it's all said and done, it's not something I totally agree with, especially when it seems to happen all the time.

[ABrown]

Fanboyism (n) : The belief that Batman could win any and every hypothetical battle that he could ever be placed in.

= ABrown :D

[AlgeaX]

Could Batman have a plan to take out anyone in the entire universe? It seems like sometimes Batman is literally God himself and he can do anything. If a God exists in the DC universe, Batman could probably have a plan to take him out too.

No, no, you're thinking of Squirrel Girl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_Girl).

[Dreyfus]

Since time wore Bruce down by BB, you could say Destiny is the one being that Batman can't take down (whether it be.fate in general or Destiny of the Endless).

True, but a bit ironic considering the fact that Batman lives on anyway through McGinnis.

[Dusty]

Now if this was a "No Holds Barred" and an unbiased writer is writing Batman, and makes use of his actual skill set, then no, he would be swatted down by most if not all metahumans (note: notice how I said "most.") He would come out on top atleast a few times, he is definitely one of the most skilled "non powered" Superheroers, but he is still just a human.
Ughh, "Prep Time" ( :rolleyes: whoever thought that was possible needs to be slapped) NO amount of prep time would prepare Batman (who's my 2nd fav. hero and think rocks) against most super powered beings. He would especially not stand a inkling of a chance against beings who are essentially gods, Superman (even with Kryptonite,) Darkseid (even with radion,) Captain Marvel, Green Lantern, etc, etc.
Batman is a mere mortal, he may be just about at the peak of human perfection physical and mental wise, but he is still human and can only react (physically and mentally) at normal human speeds. The Flash, Superman, Captain Marvel, and other super fast beings, all react and think at speeds ten million times as fast as regular humans,
Superman for one could take Batman out all the way from the moon or farther,
but again it all comes down to the writer biasedness (I doubt that's a word but I don't care) if it were BT as the writer then Batgod would of course win (as BT did many times, in many of his toons.) If it were another writer who wrote the superhuman characters as they are, and based on their true power set and true abilities, then Batman ends up lying dead in a coffin, (not trapped in time. ;) ) IMO,
Now if Superheroes really existed I think we all know how this would go down, read above post but ignore the writer aspect,
(just a little different take on the topic subject,)
;)



Note: All of the post above is opinion, so please if you wish to debate on the subject, please do so in a polite manner, I will try to do the same,
Thank-you. :)


D.

Mod Note: Inappropriate language removed.

[trance2009]

There is that scene in BTAS on YT featuring The Creeper backhand punching Batman whose trying to walk up on him from behind.

[Primal Slayer]

Sure if they hero/villan deciede to be nice. Majority of DC heroes could take out Batman in a minute if they really wanted to.

[90'sCartoonMan]

I wish someone would make a youtube video of all the times Batman got punked, knocked out, or sucker-punched in the DCAU (well...mostly B:TAS).

Batman does lose a lot in the beginning only to come back tougher. "Fury" is a good example of him taking down a bunch of villains he's familiar with only to be beaten rather easily by someone he's never met before.



Ughh, "Prep Time" ( :rolleyes: whoever thought that was possible needs to be B**** slapped j/k Mods. ;) ) NO amount of prep time would prepare Batman (who's my 2nd fav. hero and think rocks) against most super powered beings. He would especially not stand a inkling of a chance against beings who are essentially gods, Superman (even with Kryptonite,) Darkseid (even with radion,) Captain Marvel, Green Lantern, etc, etc.

I think you're kind of underestimating prep time. I mean, sure, it wouldn't help in a no-holds-barred against someone with super speed (he wouldn't get to his kryptonite fast enough to beat Superman), but if he was able to trap/distract someone like, say, Green Lantern long enough until he runs out of power, that one would go to Batman. Also, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for him to develop some kind of device to temporarily shut down robotic heroes (Steel, STRIPE, Red Tornado, etc.) , have that in his utility belt and beat them that way.

Not trying to sound like a total Batman fanboy here (because I'm really not), but I'd say Batman could take out the average super powered being with prep time, just not the REALLY strong, tough, fast, or magic ones.

[JTMarsh]

I wish someone would make a youtube video of all the times Batman got punked, knocked out, or sucker-punched in the DCAU (well...mostly B:TAS).

Then when people make topics like these, I could just post a link to the video.

---
You mean like "Joker's Wild" where Bats got electrocuted by the crooked guy running the Joker themed casino? He probably fell short more in his own series than he did on Justice League/JLU, but I guess we could also Flash faking him, or at least his Justice Lord self out in "A Better World" as being "punked".

I don't like the prep time thing either. But that's what happens when one character has all the selling power to mainstream audiences. Same thing pretty much happened with Wolverine over at Marvel. How many opponents has Wolverine mauled that, when you think about it, he really has no logistical right to maul?

[ABrown]

Batman does lose a lot in the beginning only to come back tougher. "Fury" is a good example of him taking down a bunch of villains he's familiar with only to be beaten rather easily by someone he's never met before.

It is kinda interesting how Batman can go up against supervillans, only to get knocked out by some average guy on the street in "The Forgotten"


Not trying to sound like a total Batman fanboy here (because I'm really not), but I'd say Batman could take out the average super powered being with prep time, just not the REALLY strong, tough, fast, or magic ones.

I agree. It's just like Batman said: "helps to be prepared"

[tedcassidy]

No way. Batman is down before he even knows what hit him....

[Alph]

Really, all a writer has to do is give Batman a gadget that's more powerful than his opponent (be it anti-shark spray, or a superpowered exo-suit).

The question is: what gadgets do the writers want Batman to have in a particular story? Stolen Apokoliptian tech? Futuristic human tech? Grapples and normal batarangs?



If it were another writer who wrote the superhuman characters as they are, and based on their true power set and true abilities

When you say "true power set and true abilities", do you mean "powers and abilities consistent with what we've seen before in the same continuity", or do you mean "powers and abilities that I want them to have, based on what I've seen in other continuities"?



It is kinda interesting how Batman can go up against supervillans, only to get knocked out by some average guy on the street in "The Forgotten"


To be fair, those instances were years apart. I'm sure his skills would improve in that time period, as would his gadgetry.

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Batman does lose a lot in the beginning only to come back tougher. "Fury" is a good example of him taking down a bunch of villains he's familiar with only to be beaten rather easily by someone he's never met before.


As cool as the sequence was, it was probably overkill. If the entire League struggled to beat them working together, it's too much to show Batman beating 5 of them in 30 seconds. Batman better be packing more than his standard utility belt for him to accomplish that feat.

Overall, I think JLU did a decent job not overpowering Batman too much. There were times they were guilty, such as that scene in "Fury," and also his dodging Darkseid's Omega Beams (superspeeders shouldn't be able to dodge it, let alone non-superspeedy humans), but they never went so far as to suggest he can beat anyone if he had enough time to prepare.

I'm as anti-"prep time" and Batgod as anyone, but I'm still open to the idea that he can still pull off some amazing upsets from time to time. He's the sort of guy who would analyze weaknesses and try to find exploits, like Hawkgirl did in "Starcrossed." Also, I like to think that he fights like a cleaner version of Lex Luthor, who is capable of finding inventive (and cruel) ways of beating heroes.

[Dusty]

When you say "true power set and true abilities", do you mean "powers and abilities consistent with what we've seen before in the same continuity", or do you mean "powers and abilities that I want them to have, based on what I've seen in other continuities"?

No, I mean what DC Comics has set Batman's abilities at, like when dccomics.com had pages that told the origins and powers of their heroes, or on the back of cards where they list the abilities of the hero on the card, I want all of the DC characters to have their powers based on the stats given by DC Comics the company not on individual writers, :)


D.

[Bobbywoodhogan]

This topic is abit daft especially the opening line about him taking down Superman etc. It depends on what you watch or read? he's been taking down many times himself.

TBH if you followed the DCAU they treat Batman like a god which really bugs me. Superman is THE ULTIMATE SUPERHERO but you wouldn't have thought so in the DCAU.

Also the Flash would probably defeat everyone hes that fast who could stop him>

[Anthonynotes]

Yes, I can't stand the "he can beat Superman/Darkseid/God/Brainatra's mother" with that tired "enough time to prepare" excuse. By that logic, my 7-year-old niece could beat those guys with "enough time to prepare." ;-) (Well, that last one would land her in permanent "time out"... :-p ).

Meanwhile, I don't have a YouTube video like someone asked for, but I did find this:

http://www.biggercheese.com/index.php?comic=608

:-p

-B.

[adoptedBatpuppy]

True, but a bit ironic considering the fact that Batman lives on anyway through McGinnis.

Yes, but Terry is his own person... and

Brainatra, the link to the comics you have posted might not be appropriate because there is a foul language present, but the comics are funny.
I don't think Batman can defeat Brainiac or Darkseid or any of the super powered beings on his own, maybe he can take down Superman if he had a huge amount of krytptonite and he was able to get close to inject it in his bloodstream or something...... He would simply not be strong enough even with plenty of preparation time....

[90'sCartoonMan]

As cool as the sequence was, it was probably overkill. If the entire League struggled to beat them working together, it's too much to show Batman beating 5 of them in 30 seconds. Batman better be packing more than his standard utility belt for him to accomplish that feat.

Maybe with Grundy (that batarang he used must've been quite powerful if it can take out the guy who can take multiple hits from Superman), but with Star Sapphire, he was able to turn her power back on her, which is difficult to do without a gigantic mirror around.

His battle with Tsukuri (someone closer to his power level) lasted about as long as two well trained martial artists should last, they dance around each other until one lands the important blow.

Shade and Copperhead he just took by surprise. In fact, he had trouble with Shade in "Secret Society" and Copperhead snuck behind him and took him out in "Injustice for All".

Batman's skilled, resourceful, and oftentimes, lucky. He has a tendency to beat the odds, moreso than anyone else I think, which is why we're having this discussion, but he's had his share of defeats as well.

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Maybe with Grundy (that batarang he used must've been quite powerful if it can take out the guy who can take multiple hits from Superman), but with Star Sapphire, he was able to turn her power back on her, which is difficult to do without a gigantic mirror around.

His battle with Tsukuri (someone closer to his power level) lasted about as long as two well trained martial artists should last, they dance around each other until one lands the important blow.

Shade and Copperhead he just took by surprise. In fact, he had trouble with Shade in "Secret Society" and Copperhead snuck behind him and took him out in "Injustice for All".

Batman's skilled, resourceful, and oftentimes, lucky. He has a tendency to beat the odds, moreso than anyone else I think, which is why we're having this discussion, but he's had his share of defeats as well.

I don't think most showdowns between martial arts masters end in 15 seconds. You have to make a massively critical error to lose that quickly, especially when you have a tactical advantage like Tsukuri's (sword).

But the point I was making wasn't that none of what happened was implausible. There was a 2-part episode that showed how hard it was for the entire League to beat the Injustice Gang. You water down the threat if they could feasibly lose that quickly to one guy, let alone to the one guy w/o powers.

[Spideyzilla]

Yes, because he's a fictional character and a writer can make him do anything the writer wants.

My exact thoughts. If Spider-Man can get married only to have it never happen (don't even bother thinking) then Batman can do anything a writer wants.

[theRedDeath]

I never got the "Batman can beat (X) so long as the writer wants him to." argument. Of course that's true. It's also true in reverse. Anyone can beat Batman if the writers want. Beast Boy from Teen Titans can beat Batman if the writer's want.

It's also true about any character. Blue Beetle can beat anyone if the writer wants. Detective Chimp can beat Imperiex if the writer wants. Superman can punch out SPACE if the writer wants.

It doesn't really mean anything.

---

[BigFatHairyDeal]

I originally posted that mostly out of sarcasm.

[Light Lucario]

We've seen Batman take out just about everyone and anyone more powerful than a normal human. Darkseid, Superman, etc.

Could Batman have a plan to take out anyone in the entire universe? It seems like sometimes Batman is literally God himself and he can do anything. If a God exists in the DC universe, Batman could probably have a plan to take him out too.

Since Batman is the underdog, they also treat him as if he's better than everyone else. Can Batman take on the entire universe?

I'm a bit confused on a certain part of your statement. If you think that sometimes Batman is literally God himself and that he could take out a God in the DC universe, then how is he the underdog? Aren't underdogs usually portrayed as having little to no chance against much stronger opponents? Granted, a lot of the villains Batman tends to fight are physically stronger than him and he usually wins by outsmarting them, but he usually doesn't have a low chance of defeating his enemies either. Maybe I'm just taking the term underdog too literal.

Anyway, I don't think Batman would be able to take down anyone with enough prep time. I like Batman and I think he's a really cool superhero, but I don't think he's unbeatable. He has been defeated before, even in the DCAU, and I don't remember him taking down Darkside. I thought that he was just barely holding him back during that fight. He would fight off against any enemy with all of his capacity, but I don't think he would win all of the time. There are some times where he would just lose, come back stronger and then probably defeat them. I do remember a couple of cases in JLU where he was really overpowered, but I think that has to do with the quality of the writing than the actual character.

[maczero]

I don't have a major problem with the "prep time" excuse as long as it's based on his knowledge and resources. If anything, I find Batman's breadth of knowledge and skills to be more unrealistic than him beating super humans. It's not that he knows a little about everything. He knows a "lot" about everything.

[90'sCartoonMan]

I don't think most showdowns between martial arts masters end in 15 seconds. You have to make a massively critical error to lose that quickly, especially when you have a tactical advantage like Tsukuri's (sword).

But the point I was making wasn't that none of what happened was implausible. There was a 2-part episode that showed how hard it was for the entire League to beat the Injustice Gang. You water down the threat if they could feasibly lose that quickly to one guy, let alone to the one guy w/o powers.

Well, if Tsukuri landed a hit with her sword, that fight would've been quick. In terms of animated superhero martial arts, I mean, it's typically quick.

I agree, the threat is watered down a bit, but luckily, I think the best super team against super team battle was in "Secret Society", no tricks, no nothing, a big face-off where anything can happen and no one is over-powered (actually, most of them are underpowered).

[ABrown]

This conversation kinda reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live Super Fans: "Who would win in a fight between Batman and God? Da Batman"

[Alph]

You have to make a massively critical error to lose that quickly.

But she did make a massively critical error.........she got into a fight with Batman.....



But the point I was making wasn't that none of what happened was implausible. There was a 2-part episode that showed how hard it was for the entire League to beat the Injustice Gang. You water down the threat if they could feasibly lose that quickly to one guy, let alone to the one guy w/o powers.

I agree, but it's not like the Injustice Gang was ever used as a main threat again, anyway. It's like when Frieza gets rofflestomped by Trunks...yeah, now Frieza looks like a poon. But he's not the main threat anymore, so who cares.


Granted, they did air those two episodes out of order, so, yeah.....

[Hordesman]

I'd say Batman's got a good balance of training, resources and preparation that's made him a versatile fighter and strategist- a quick study with an impressive knowledge base. It can get silly- the yellow room in All-Star B&R comes to mind... and I did like the JLA story where Batman's take-down files were stolen and used against the League-- I think it's the difference between a versatile Batman versus a Godmode Batman. It's not interesting if he's prepared for every twist in a fight or a story.

[suss2it]

I'd say Batman's got a good balance of training, resources and preparation that's made him a versatile fighter and strategist- a quick study with an impressive knowledge base. It can get silly- the yellow room in All-Star B&R comes to mind... and I did like the JLA story where Batman's take-down files were stolen and used against the League-- I think it's the difference between a versatile Batman versus a Godmode Batman. It's not interesting if he's prepared for every twist in a fight or a story.The yellow room in All-Star wasn't silly at all, in fact I think it was pretty practical seeing as though that's Hal's only weakness.

[JTMarsh]

The Yellow Room, along with everything else in All-Star B&R, was a sick, absurd joke.

[suss2it]

The Yellow Room, along with everything else in All-Star B&R, was a sick, absurd joke.
Really? I thought it was one of the few things that made sense in All-Star B&R. What about it exactly makes you guys think it's silly or absurd?

[ShadowDemon]

Yes, I can't stand the "he can beat Superman/Darkseid/God/Brainatra's mother" with that tired "enough time to prepare" excuse. By that logic, my 7-year-old niece could beat those guys with "enough time to prepare." ;-) (Well, that last one would land her in permanent "time out"... :-p ).

If your niece were a near-genius level intellect who had many many years of training in everything from esoteric martial arts to forensics, and the resources of a multi-billion dollar corporation with access to the most advanced tech on the planet to draw upon then she SHOULD be able to take on just about anyone with enough information and "prep" time.

Realistically, it's the ONLY way a "stock" human being (in terms of innate power) can compete in the metahuman world. They have to either have the skills to negate the raw power advantage of the "true" supers, or the tech to "buff" them in terms of their abilities, or some combination of the two.