Does anyone even want "Young Justice" to be good?

[cartoonscartoons]

Does anyone on these forums think that "Young Justice" should be like it's comics, and be crazy and goofy unlike "JLA"?

Thats what made them so entertaining, the stupidity and dynamics of Impulse, Robin, and Superboy! It seems like everyone here is rooting for a "Justice League Teens" cartoon, so please someone agree with me that it should be a straight comedy show!

[BigFatHairyDeal]

"So bad it's good" technically counts as good. If that's what you want, I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I felt that in some ways, Teen Titans was aiming to be like that, and it had a good following.

[Bat-Fan Beyond]

I never read the comics with the same title. I don't care about the comics. I don't care about that particular line-up that was in the comics. I don't want "crazy and goofy." I don't want "unlike 'JLA.'" I don't want a "straight comedy show."

What I want is what it appears we are getting. I'm perfectly happy with what it seems the show is going to be and I haven't been this excited for an animated show since Justice League Unlimited. I have faith that this show is going to be fun and dynamic without resorting to stupidity, and that the stories will be smart and sophisticated with great characterizations.

Just give it a chance and stop whining about what you're not getting and just appreciate what you are getting.

[cartoonscartoons]

"So bad it's good" technically counts as good. If that's what you want, I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I felt that in some ways, Teen Titans was aiming to be like that, and it had a good following.

Has anyone ever read "YJ"? The character dynamics were great.

Teen Titans should have been the one to have a serious tone.

[Rick Jones]

It might be harder to find a poster that doesn't want it to be good.

I wanted a Peter David style Young Justice and I also wanted a serious Teen Titans adaptation, ala the proposed Judas Contract, but what I didn't know I'd want was something right in between those, kind of like this looks like it will be, and I couldn't be more excited for this.

[JLU Dude]

Does anyone on these forums think that "Young Justice" should be like it's comics, and be crazy and goofy unlike "JLA"?

Thats what made them so entertaining, the stupidity and dynamics of Impulse, Robin, and Superboy! It seems like everyone here is rooting for a "Justice League Teens" cartoon, so please someone agree with me that it should be a straight comedy show!

Finally, someone who actually agrees with me. I'd actually be looking forward to it more if it actually were Young Justice instead of this weird "YJ/Teen Titans/JL Task Force" mash-up we're getting. Instead, we're not getting it and it stinks that they're only using the name instead of using a more appropriate name. At least "Teen Titans" or "Justice League Task Force" would actually make sense for this cartoon.

[AlgeaX]

Of course everyone wants it to be good, but being done in a different style and tone to the comics won't necessarily make it bad. Teen Titans was really nothing like the Wolfman/Perez comics but it was still a fun show in it's own right. Likewise just because Young Justice, is taking a more dramatic tone doesn't mean it won't still be great tv in it's own right.

Besides it's being produced by Greg "Gargolyes" Weisman, so you know it's gonna kick ass!

[Shawn Hopkins]

I've read a lot of the Young Justice comics and, although they could be wacky, describing them as straight comedy is incorrect. They could have their serious moments. The Secret's storyline is actually kind of grim, probably too grim to do straight in a kid's cartoon, honestly, since it involves sororicide, filicide, suicide and patricide and several other dark turns. Basically, Secret's family is about as screwed up as they get.

For me, it doesn't have to be exactly like the comics, anyway. I'm willing to wait and see what they come up with and give it a chance.

[Rick Jones]

I've read a lot of the Young Justice comics and, although they could be wacky, describing them as straight comedy is incorrect. They could have their serious moments. The Secret's storyline is actually kind of grim, probably too grim to do straight in a kid's cartoon, honestly, since it involves sororicide, filicide, suicide and patricide and several other dark turns. Basically, Secret's family is about as screwed up as they get.

For me, it doesn't have to be exactly like the comics, anyway. I'm willing to wait and see what they come up with and give it a chance.
Oh yeah, the comics definitely had their darker moments; Arrowette contemplating murder, Impulse coming to terms with his own mortality, Connor's depression after Tana Moon is killed, Empress waging war after her father is murdered. etc. It always maintained a great sense of balance though and I can only imagine that this show would do the same.

[Primal Slayer]

They are just using the Young Justice name and some homages to it. Which is fine with me now since its already so detached from the comic.

[Bloody Marquis]

I never read the comics with the same title. I don't care about the comics. I don't care about that particular line-up that was in the comics. I don't want "crazy and goofy." I don't want "unlike 'JLA.'" I don't want a "straight comedy show."

What I want is what it appears we are getting. I'm perfectly happy with what it seems the show is going to be and I haven't been this excited for an animated show since Justice League Unlimited. I have faith that this show is going to be fun and dynamic without resorting to stupidity, and that the stories will be smart and sophisticated with great characterizations.

Just give it a chance and stop whining about what you're not getting and just appreciate what you are getting.
This. I don't like how purists keep complaining about how this can't be exactly like its namesake, and before even watching it at that. If having Greg Weisman and Peter "the guy who wrote the original YJ comics" David won't satisfy you guys, nothing will.

And what a strange thread title...

[Grave]

I never read the comics with the same title. I don't care about the comics. I don't care about that particular line-up that was in the comics. I don't want "crazy and goofy." I don't want "unlike 'JLA.'" I don't want a "straight comedy show."

What I want is what it appears we are getting. I'm perfectly happy with what it seems the show is going to be and I haven't been this excited for an animated show since Justice League Unlimited. I have faith that this show is going to be fun and dynamic without resorting to stupidity, and that the stories will be smart and sophisticated with great characterizations.

Just give it a chance and stop whining about what you're not getting and just appreciate what you are getting.

This, although I just recently found out about Young Justice (and Avengers) and I can't say I've read the comics, so I can't say I have much of an expectation. Going by one picture I saw I'm sort of expecting something similar to Teen Titans or X-Men Evolution and I'm fine with that.

This along with Avengers will give me something to watch on tv since I've been feeling a little deprived, especially since I'm not getting any animes I want to watch.

Can't say I've been seeing people complain.

[Bobbywoodhogan]

I want it to be good like JLU good not goody good. I am such a big fan of the Connor Kent/Superboy that I cant wait for this to start. I hope its a serious program but with comical moments just not goofy like Teen Titans was.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

I want this to be the show Teen Titans might have been in different hands. I love the Teen Titans cartoon but a different take on some of those characters would be welcome.

It has been a good long while since we've had a serious DC animated series. While Titans, The Batman and even Brave and the Bold had their serious or dark moments they weren't intended to be like the DCAU. Nothing wrong with that but this series looks like something more akin to the DCAU series and that has me very excited.

[Livy1213]

The one thing I am concerned about with the new Young Justice show is how they're going to handle Dick as Robin. I don't mind the age gap between him the others since that's made up for by him having the most experience but I'm concerned that he will be Dick in name only and be more of a Tim Drake character instead, or worst, a Damian character. It's not that I dislike Tim or Damian, it's just that, if they're going to use Dick, I want him to be Dick with not confusion in the matter.

[suss2it]

I want this to be the show Teen Titans might have been in different hands. I love the Teen Titans cartoon but a different take on some of those characters would be welcome.

It has been a good long while since we've had a serious DC animated series. While Titans, The Batman and even Brave and the Bold had their serious or dark moments they weren't intended to be like the DCAU. Nothing wrong with that but this series looks like something more akin to the DCAU series and that has me very excited.
How is it like the DCAU? The DCAU is actually pretty diverse seeing as though it contains many different shows. B:TAS for example was a very episodic show while the first season of JLU was more serial, The Zeta Project and Superman: TAS are as different as The Batman is to Legion of Super Heroes so when you say you want Young Justice to be like the DCAU you have to be more specific.

[Light Lucario]

I haven't read any of the Young Justice comics, but I still would love this show to be good. Based on what I've heard and read about the way the creators are handling the story and characters, it definitely sounds like it will be great. I wouldn't mind some humor thrown into it, but I wouldn't want it to dominate the series like it did for the majority of Teen Titans. Teen Titans was fun, but I'd prefer a better combination of serious action and comedy for this Young Justice series.

[StormBlue]

The one thing I am concerned about with the new Young Justice show is how they're going to handle Dick as Robin. I don't mind the age gap between him the others since that's made up for by him having the most experience but I'm concerned that he will be Dick in name only and be more of a Tim Drake character instead, or worst, a Damian character. It's not that I dislike Tim or Damian, it's just that, if they're going to use Dick, I want him to be Dick with not confusion in the matter.

As someone whose knowledge of Dick & Tim are from DC animated projects and knowledge of Damian from Batman & Robin (comics), what are the character traits specific to Dick and Tim that can't be shared? I get Damian's behavior traits but I'm not sure I understand much of what separates Dick and Tim.

[Livy1213]

I guess I always thought of Tim being the more serious/straight man while Dick was more joking, light and easy going one (as Robin anyway). I'm not apposed to including some aspects of Tim but over all I don't want everything about Dick to be turned into Tim. But I guess I'm more afraid he might be Damian in character since he's much closer to Damian in age on this show. I'm sure it's an unfounded fear.

[BlackoutCreature]

I guess this is as good a place as any to post my feelings about Young Justice.

I was a huge fan of the Young Justice comics back in the day. I thought it was a really stupid move for DC to cancel Young Justice in favor of another Wolfman/Perez tribute Titans book. I was very very happy with the Teen Titans cartoon because tone and style-wise it felt more like the Young Justice comics then it did with any incarnation of the actual comic Titans. I was also very happy when I heard that a Young Justice cartoon was in the works. Then information on it started to trickle in.

First they announce a line-up featuring characters that have had nothing to do with Young Justice in the past. I didn't have a problem with this with shows like Justice League or Teen Titans because they're franchises with 50 years of history and huge rotating casts. You can play around with the cast in situations like that. But Young Justice was only around for about 5 years and had a pretty stable core roster. You can trade out Aquaman for Hawkgirl on Justice League and still have it feel like Justice League. You can't trade out the Human Torch for Herbie the Robot and still have it feel like the Fantastic Four.

Then the footage comes in and everything feels too dark, too serious, not fun enough, and just not feeling like Young Justice. The only way it could feel more wrong as Young Justice would be to shoe-horn Hal Jordan into the team somehow.

I get the impression that 7 years ago we got the cartoon that Young Justice fans wanted, only it was called Teen Titans. Now we're getting the cartoon that Teen Titans fans wanted 7 years ago and it's being called Young Justice. I don't know if I want the show to fail or not, I do know though it's not the show I wanted and I'm probably not gonna follow it.

Sidenote: 1000th POST :proud:

[Shawn Hopkins]

I watched some video and I'm kinda sad that they've combined Wonder Girl and Arrowette into sort of a composite character. Would it have been that terrible to have more than two girls on the team? They wouldn't give anybody cooties, I promise. Wonder Woman is their most well-known female character anyway, it seems weird to have a whole team of sidekicks and not have Wonder Woman's sidekick. Teen Titans skipped Wonder Girl, too, I wonder (hah) what it is about the character that makes animators not want to use her.

[GregX]

I watched some video and I'm kinda sad that they've combined Wonder Girl and Arrowette into sort of a composite character. Would it have been that terrible to have more than two girls on the team? They wouldn't give anybody cooties, I promise. Wonder Woman is their most well-known female character anyway, it seems weird to have a whole team of sidekicks and not have Wonder Woman's sidekick. Teen Titans skipped Wonder Girl, too, I wonder (hah) what it is about the character that makes animators not want to use her.

There were legal issues with Wonder Girl when they started developing the series. Those issues are no longer there, so what makes you think she won't show up down the line?

[Otaku-sempai]

First off C.C., I reject your original premise. A show (or a comic) can be both goofy & fun AND good at the same time. That said, sure, I wanted a show that actually resembles the comic that it is taking its title from, but I'll try to judge this series on its own merits.

The irony is that I was hoping for a Young Justice animated series back when the title was still being published, but we ended up with a Teen Titans series that was in a similar style. And now we finally do get a Young Justice series and it is nothing like the original title. Such is life.

[AdamYJ]

I would have rather gotten a more true-to-comic Young Justice comic, seeing as I was a huge YJ fan when I was getting back into comics. However, those aren't the cards we're dealt. So, I'll give the show a try and if I don't like it I won't watch it.

[Shawn Hopkins]

There were legal issues with Wonder Girl when they started developing the series. Those issues are no longer there, so what makes you think she won't show up down the line?

Weisman said in this interview, though, that it wasn't for legal reasons. Go to about the 12 minute mark. They just didn't have a place for her, which is silly if true, because she's the sidekick of -the- most iconic female hero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzoopkET0m8

Sure she might show up down the line as a guest star, but I doubt she'll be added to the main cast because Artemis seems like a composite of Wonder Girl and Arrowette, she shoots bows but with her Greek name it's most likely her mentors will be Diana and Green Arrow, making Wonder Girl redundant as long as she's there.

Now, maybe for the second season they'll give her the Wonder Girl powers, though, but that we still get no Arrowette and we only have two girls. If they make Artemis Wonder Girl and have another girl join the team as Arrowette, that would be nice. Or maybe when they change the old Speedy to his new Red Arrow identity, they can have a new girl Speedy take over and join the team.

It's also been flat out said that they'll kill a character, and Artemis seems most likely for the chopping block, so maybe Wonder Girl can enter that way.

In that interview he also says Artemis is an existing DC character, but not Cassie or Donna or Cissie or the Mia Speedy, and not the Amazon Artemis because she's not an Amazon. So that has me a little stumped.

[suss2it]

Weisman said in this interview, though, that it wasn't for legal reasons. Go to about the 12 minute mark. They just didn't have a place for her, which is silly if true, because she's the sidekick of -the- most iconic female hero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzoopkET0m8

Sure she might show up down the line as a guest star, but I doubt she'll be added to the main cast because Artemis seems like a composite of Wonder Girl and Arrowette, she shoots bows but with her Greek name it's most likely her mentors will be Diana and Green Arrow, making Wonder Girl redundant as long as she's there.

Now, maybe for the second season they'll give her the Wonder Girl powers, though, but that we still get no Arrowette and we only have two girls. If they make Artemis Wonder Girl and have another girl join the team as Arrowette, that would be nice. Or maybe when they change the old Speedy to his new Red Arrow identity, they can have a new girl Speedy take over and join the team.

It's also been flat out said that they'll kill a character, and Artemis seems most likely for the chopping block, so maybe Wonder Girl can enter that way.

In that interview he also says Artemis is an existing DC character, but not Cassie or Donna or Cissie or the Mia Speedy, and not the Amazon Artemis because she's not an Amazon. So that has me a little stumped.He also said that they're adding 2 regulars by the end of the show so I'm hoping both or at least one is another female.

[Bat-Fan Beyond]

This thread has basically become what the original Young Justice thread was, which was people debating whether or not this show should be a direct adaptation of the comic book of the same name. I thought we've all gotten past that by now. Do we really need another seperate thread for this?

I mean, let's face it, this animated series is not based on that comic book series of the same name. Simple as that! Other than it having the same title, a few of the same characters, and a similar concept -- which is about a team of young superheroes -- this series is not related to the Young Justice comic in any way. The producers liked the name and they used it. It's not like the original Young Justice comic is still around anyway.

I'm glad this show is going to be something fresh and a bit more serious in tone. It's not strictly intended for just kids -- It's an all ages show! Personally, I thought Teen Titans was pretty much a goofy kids show, and as much as I tried, I couldn't get into it. This show on the other hand looks to be great, and I'm sure it will have enough humor (just the right amount) to still be fun and entertaining without resorting to over-the-top silliness.

Let's just have faith in Greg Weisman; He's given us some of the best animated shows on television and I'm sure this will be another one. Maybe even the best one at that!

[AdamYJ]

It's not like the original Young Justice comic is still around anyway.

That's the point of why people are talking about it. It's because the old Young Justice isn't around anymore. A lot of the people saying this stuff were really big fans of the comic. They're also a little upset that they took the old Young Justice cast in the comics, stripped away most of the humor attached to them and dumped a load of teen angst on top in making them the new Teen Titans.

What can I say, comic book fans are known for holding their grudges.

Anyway, YJ fans thought this might be their second chance at seeing that old magic again. Alas, it was not to be.


In that interview he also says Artemis is an existing DC character, but not Cassie or Donna or Cissie or the Mia Speedy, and not the Amazon Artemis because she's not an Amazon. So that has me a little stumped.

My biggest theory is that she's Artemis Crock, the JSA villianess known as Tigress and daughter of the original Huntress and Sportsmaster.

[Bat-Fan Beyond]

That's the point of why people are talking about it. It's because the old Young Justice isn't around anymore. A lot of the people saying this stuff were really big fans of the comic. They're also a little upset that they took the old Young Justice cast in the comics, stripped away most of the humor attached to them and dumped a load of teen angst on top in making them the new Teen Titans.

What can I say, comic book fans are known for holding their grudges.

Anyway, YJ fans thought this might be their second chance at seeing that old magic again. Alas, it was not to be.



Okay, I get that. I've never read a Young Justice comic, but I sympathize with its fans, as I'm a comic book fan myself. But, as a comic book fan, I understand how teams, characters, concepts, and titles have been launched, changed, rebooted, relanched over and over again throughout the history of comics. It happens all the time! It really should not be of any surprise that a title like Young Justice is being used again and it's different than it was originally conceived as, especially if it's being used for an entirely different medium like television animation.

[Primal Slayer]

Weisman said in this interview, though, that it wasn't for legal reasons. Go to about the 12 minute mark. They just didn't have a place for her, which is silly if true, because she's the sidekick of -the- most iconic female hero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzoopkET0m8




I just saw the teaser for "Young Justice" and I'm very excited. I don't know most of these characters well or at all, but the premise sounds great and I can't wait to see what you do with it.
In the comments for the teaser video on YouTube, I noticed that someone had said that there was a legal issue that prevented you from using Wonder Girl. Is that true or is it just one of those odd rumors like your supposed hatred of Carnage? I don't really mind her absence since I don't know the character well; I'm just curious.
Greg responds...

There is NO LONGER a legal issue about Wonder Girl. But there was when we originally developed the series.
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/archives.php?lid=617

I wouldnt be surprised if she joins the cast towards the end of the season if not Season2. Whats the use of having Wonder Woman if you dont really have a use of her but just to stand around and look pretty? Im sure she will add her own sidekick.

And we already know that Artemis is an actual DCU charecter. Infact a lot of people already know which one she basically is.

[GregX]

Weisman said in this interview, though, that it wasn't for legal reasons. Go to about the 12 minute mark. They just didn't have a place for her, which is silly if true, because she's the sidekick of -the- most iconic female hero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzoopkET0m8

He also said here that there was a legal issue when they began developing the show:

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=12352

[suss2it]

I wouldnt be surprised if she joins the cast towards the end of the season if not Season2. Whats the use of having Wonder Woman if you dont really have a use of her but just to stand around and look pretty? Im sure she will add her own sidekick.

And we already know that Artemis is an actual DCU charecter. Infact a lot of people already know which one she basically is.

Well the two Green Lanterns aren't going to be mentoring anybody and they're still gonna be in the show.

[Primal Slayer]

They dont really have sidekicks anyway. Plus they need to/should add a female mentor with a sidekick to the team. Basically imo its always been hard enough to get WW on shows so if they can have her might as well show her off a little bit if they arent already.

[BlackoutCreature]

Okay, I get that. I've never read a Young Justice comic, but I sympathize with its fans, as I'm a comic book fan myself. But, as a comic book fan, I understand how teams, characters, concepts, and titles have been launched, changed, rebooted, relanched over and over again throughout the history of comics. It happens all the time! It really should not be of any surprise that a title like Young Justice is being used again and it's different than it was originally conceived as, especially if it's being used for an entirely different medium like television animation.
Franchises like Justice League, Teen Titans, Avengers, etc. have decades of history to play with. All those things that you stated can happen to them and they'll still feel like they have some relation to the source material. Young Justice had a very short run with a very specific cast. There's not really a lot of material to work with. We're not talking about the Young Justice cartoon not having anything in common with a specific era or roster of Young Justice history, or mixing and matching different eras, or taking liberties with the source material. We're talking how the Young Justice cartoon doesn't seem to have anything in common with Young Justice at all, where you wonder why they bothered to call it Young Justice at all?

I mean, imagine trying to launch a Nextwave cartoon only using none of the characters that were in Nextwave and cutting out all the wackiness, comedy and satire, making it a straight forward, more traditional superhero cartoon like Justice League. Kinda misses the point of calling it Nextwave to begin with?

I seriously feel that Greg Weisman walked into the DC/WB offices and said he wanted to write the serious, straight-forward Teen Titans series that Teen Titans fans have wanted since the old series was announced. Then the conversation went like this -
DC exec: That's great, but you can't call it Teen Titans because people will confuse it with the old cartoon.
Weisman: What can I call it then?
DC exec: Well we had an old series called Young Justice that was kinda similar.
Weisman: What was it about?
DC exec: Doesn't matter, nobody cared about it, so do what you want with the name.

Now the Teen Titans cartoon obviously didn't slavishly follow the source material like some people wanted, but it was obvious that it respected it. I don't get that vibe from Young Justice.

[W.C.Reaf]

Franchises like Justice League, Teen Titans, Avengers, etc. have decades of history to play with. All those things that you stated can happen to them and they'll still feel like they have some relation to the source material. Young Justice had a very short run with a very specific cast. There's not really a lot of material to work with. We're not talking about the Young Justice cartoon not having anything in common with a specific era or roster of Young Justice history, or mixing and matching different eras, or taking liberties with the source material. We're talking how the Young Justice cartoon doesn't seem to have anything in common with Young Justice at all, where you wonder why they bothered to call it Young Justice at all?

The show doesn't seem to have that much in common with Teen Titans either since TT was not about the kids trying to be a hero team then the Justice League shuts them down and forces them to work as a JL covert ops team. The show is something different than any teen team in DC and seems to be a mix of TT, YJ, and JL: Elite.

It's not just they've already done a TT cartoon but if they did a proper YJ show it'd be so much like TT tone wise people who don't know the comic would just call it a rip off of the TT cartoon. That's the real problem with doing a proper YJ adaption.

From the interviews I've seen the show was never meant to be an adaption of the YJ comic but something original that Weisman and Vietti pitched and the executive threw around some names, one of which was Young Justice. That stuck because it fit the show since it's about young heroes working for the Justice League.

[Bat-Fan Beyond]

I think what it all comes down to is that this is NOT Teen Titans, it is essentially Young Justice League, but Greg Weisman and the powers that be think that Young Justice sounds better than Young Justice League. And I may have to agree with that.

We should consider ourselves lucky it wasn't called something like Justice League Kids, Justice League Juniours, Justice League Sidekicks, New Justice League, Next Justice League, Justice League: The Next Generation, Justice League: Team Protégé, Justice League: Teen Spirit or simply...Teen Justice!

All of which sound either bad, a little cliché, or a little too unfamiliar. Young Justice works.

[Alph]

Why do fans always insist on following the comics so much? Why does it matter what the comics did?


The comics are a huge pool of ideas and concepts that the cartoon writers can draw from at will. That's all. The more freedom the writers are given, the better the story is likely to turn out.

[BlackoutCreature]

Why do fans always insist on following the comics so much? Why does it matter what the comics did?


The comics are a huge pool of ideas and concepts that the cartoon writers can draw from at will. That's all. The more freedom the writers are given, the better the story is likely to turn out.
I usually agree with statements like this. I definitely agreed with this when it came to Justice League and Teen Titans. They're called creators after-all, not adapters. The thing is, and maybe I'm being hypocritical here, Young Justice is such a specific idea that there's not really much freedom to deviate from the source material without completely missing the point of the source material in the first place. It's like trying to do a Watchmen or a Nextwave cartoon that have absolutely nothing in common with there comics. Makes you ask why they even bothered to use the name in the first place?

[SKDarkDragon]

I usually agree with statements like this. I definitely agreed with this when it came to Justice League and Teen Titans. They're called creators after-all, not adapters. The thing is, and maybe I'm being hypocritical here, Young Justice is such a specific idea that there's not really much freedom to deviate from the source material without completely missing the point of the source material in the first place. It's like trying to do a Watchmen or a Nextwave cartoon that have absolutely nothing in common with there comics. Makes you ask why they even bothered to use the name in the first place?

'Cause it sounds cool, and works for their concept?

I think Bat-Fan Beyond summed it up pretty well in their posts above.

[Silverstar]

W.C. Reaf really summed it up in her post. (#35)

The people complaining that this Young Justice series bears little resemblance to the YJ comics should bear in mind that the YJ series isn't supposed to be a straight-up TV adaptation of the YJ comic series. The show is its' own thing set in its' own continuity. Greg Weisman said this on this very forum, and that the title Young Justice was chosen simply because no other title seemed to fit.

Also, sure, the producers could've made Young Justice lighthearted and loose like the original comics with Superboy, Robin, Impulse et al, but we've already gotten a show like that, Teen Titans, which it should be be noted, was noticeably dissimilar to its' comic book counterpart in tone and execution. I personally wouldn't have had a problem with a wacky and nutty YJ series, but that approach was taken in Cartoon Network's previous teen DC heroes show, and had the producers gone that route, there'd be even more people accusing Young Justice of being a TT ripoff than there are now. (Granted, the TT comics was more serious in tone than its' TV version, and the YJ comic was closer to the TT show in tone, but a good portion of TT's fanbase has never picked up a comic in their lives; those whose only knowledge of TT comes from the show would instantly consider a comedic Young Justice show a Teen Titans imitation.)

[BlackoutCreature]

I've come to accept that I'm not gonna win this argument, I was just clarifying my opinion on "loyalty to the source material" to Alph. Although I still question other people, and Greg Weisman's apparent claim, on how "Young Justice" is the most appropriate name for a cartoon that has nothing to do with Young Justice. It's like doing a buddy cop TV show featuring Renee Montoya and Harvey Bullock and calling it "Justice League" because they're two cops seeking "justice" and they're in "league" together.

I don't want to argue this to death since I'm not changing any minds and don't want to come of as (much of) a whiney fanboy, but I'm sorry, this whole thing just feels like someone had a good idea for a DC cartoon, and either Weisman or a DC exec attached the name "Young Justice" to it because they didn't think anybody cared about the original Young Justice. I cared about it and I consider its cancelation one of the two biggest mistakes DC's made in the last 10 years (and they've made some doozies in my opinion). I'm curious, has there been any word on what Peter David thinks?

[suss2it]

I've come to accept that I'm not gonna win this argument, I was just clarifying my opinion on "loyalty to the source material" to Alph. Although I still question other people, and Greg Weisman's apparent claim, on how "Young Justice" is the most appropriate name for a cartoon that has nothing to do with Young Justice. It's like doing a buddy cop TV show featuring Renee Montoya and Harvey Bullock and calling it "Justice League" because they're two cops seeking "justice" and they're in "league" together.

I don't want to argue this to death since I'm not changing any minds and don't want to come of as (much of) a whiney fanboy, but I'm sorry, this whole thing just feels like someone had a good idea for a DC cartoon, and either Weisman or a DC exec attached the name "Young Justice" to it because they didn't think anybody cared about the original Young Justice. I cared about it and I consider its cancelation one of the two biggest mistakes DC's made in the last 10 years (and they've made some doozies in my opinion). I'm curious, has there been any word on what Peter David thinks?He's writing a couple of the episodes so I can't imagine he's that upset about it.

[Bloody Marquis]

Guys, it's just a title. And this isn't the first time more than one DC series shared the same name (like there being more Sandmen than just Dream and Wesley Dodds). If you guys wanted something that was exactly like the book, then read the book and let us enjoy our show.

[Antiyonder]

Not to mention that there are other comic based shows which really deviate from the material:

1. Mutant X: The comic had Alex Summers in a parallel Earth, while the show was 100% different.

2. Teen Titans: Already mentioned, but yes this is the reverse of the current YJ cartoon.

3. The Spectacular Spider-Man: Stories are based more off The Amazing Spider-Man.

[W.C.Reaf]

I've come to accept that I'm not gonna win this argument, I was just clarifying my opinion on "loyalty to the source material" to Alph. Although I still question other people, and Greg Weisman's apparent claim, on how "Young Justice" is the most appropriate name for a cartoon that has nothing to do with Young Justice. It's like doing a buddy cop TV show featuring Renee Montoya and Harvey Bullock and calling it "Justice League" because they're two cops seeking "justice" and they're in "league" together.

Can you suggest a more appropriate name for the series? The hypothetical Montoya and Bullock show has a more appropriate name from the comics, Gotham Central, yet I've never seen anyone who complains put forward a better name for this show other than Young Justice.

[Shawn Hopkins]

Love Is



Can you suggest a more appropriate name for the series? The hypothetical Montoya and Bullock show has a more appropriate name from the comics, Gotham Central, yet I've never seen anyone who complains put forward a better name for this show other than Young Justice.

Justice League Task Force, because of the covert ops angle. But then people would complain that Triumph, Gypsy and L-Ron weren't in it.

Also, Young Justice getting the short shrift really isn't new. When the series ended so we could get John's angsty Teen Titans, Peter David's character Empress, and I think one other, was just left injured in a hospital bed. That's it, no mention of Empress or years until she shows up in the background in an Infinite Crisis spinoff, suddenly Caucasian cause that's just how much they care.

[Bat-Fan Beyond]

Justice League Task Force, because of the covert ops angle. But then people would complain that Triumph, Gypsy and L-Ron weren't in it.




I'd bet the powers that be (Warner Bros. and DC) wouldn't want that title simply because it sounds more like a military special missions team than a youthful costumed superhero team. I think the key words they see will sell this are "Young" and "Justice."

[BlackoutCreature]

Not to mention that there are other comic based shows which really deviate from the material:

1. Mutant X: The comic had Alex Summers in a parallel Earth, while the show was 100% different.

2. Teen Titans: Already mentioned, but yes this is the reverse of the current YJ cartoon.

3. The Spectacular Spider-Man: Stories are based more off The Amazing Spider-Man.
1. The term "Mutant X" has been used for about a million different things in X-Men books since the 70's. It's not a unique concept.
2. Teen Titans, while drastically different in tone and style then any incarnation of its comics counterpart is still very obviously Teen Titans. The source material is the obvious inspiration and guide for the series. They didn't ignore everything that came before it and rebuilt it however they felt, they very obviously respected what came before it and just put there own spin on it.
3. I'm sorry, but thats just nit-picking. Spider-Man is Spider-Man.

Deviation from the source material is not my problem. I usually welcome it. Ignoring the source material because you don't think anybody will care is my problem.


Can you suggest a more appropriate name for the series? The hypothetical Montoya and Bullock show has a more appropriate name from the comics, Gotham Central, yet I've never seen anyone who complains put forward a better name for this show other than Young Justice.
Why should I suggest an alternative name? Let the writers and creators who are paid to do something like that do it. You're telling me that with all the people at DC and WB the only two names they can think of for a teenage superhero team are Teen Titans and Young Justice? Come up with something original.

[Bloody Marquis]

1. The term "Mutant X" has been used for about a million different things in X-Men books since the 70's. It's not a unique concept.Still doesn't excuse that Marvel's using the title for more than one series. And while were at it, they've been using Excalibur for at least two entirely unrelated teams too. Also, there's what happened several decades ago with DC when Alan Scott and Jay Garrick were suddenly forgotten and replaced by Hal Jordan and Barry Allen with different costumes and variations on their powers. Using the same names for entirely different characters and settings is a long-practiced act for the Big Two.


3. I'm sorry, but thats just nit-picking. Spider-Man is Spider-Man.Pot calling the kettle black much?


Why should I suggest an alternative name? Let the writers and creators who are paid to do something like that do it. You're telling me that with all the people at DC and WB the only two names they can think of for a teenage superhero team are Teen Titans and Young Justice? Come up with something original.Well, why should they? If the fans are too apathetic to come up with a better alternative, why expect DC to do something different?

[Shawn Hopkins]

Hey, I'm tryin' here. Okay, Extreme Justice then. It's cool, cause it's youthful, and Extreme.

How about The Young All Stars? Young Allies? The Boy Commandos? (This one also fits the premise pretty well). Young Heroes in Love? Team Titans? The Blasters? The Science Police? The Conglomerate? The Global Guardians? Power Company? S.T.A.R. Corps? Super Buddies? (Wow, I really like the idea of them being called the Super Buddies. That amuses me.) R.E.B.E.L.S.? Legion of Substitute Heroes? The New Guardians? The Darkstars? The Trenchcoat Brigade? Super Young Team? Captain Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew?

No, wait, I've got it.

Dingbats of Danger Street. It's perfect. Nobody's using it and only a handful of people remember it and have any expectations about what the team should be like, and it connotes both youthful inexperience and danger. And streets, as a bonus.

[Dorko]

I've come to accept that I'm not gonna win this argument, I was just clarifying my opinion on "loyalty to the source material" to Alph. Although I still question other people, and Greg Weisman's apparent claim, on how "Young Justice" is the most appropriate name for a cartoon that has nothing to do with Young Justice. It's like doing a buddy cop TV show featuring Renee Montoya and Harvey Bullock and calling it "Justice League" because they're two cops seeking "justice" and they're in "league" together.
There aren't really that many other names for the show that would 1) work 2) be trademarked by DC comics and 3) be easily marketable. And you example is somewhat disingenuous, being as the deviation in general concept is not all that tremendous: team of teenage heroes being mentored by Justice League members. Yes it is a very different line up and tone than the comics, but so what? The name works. I also find your lack of faith in Greg Weisman rather disconcerting. Are familiar with the other shows the man has created?

I admit you have something of a point that Young Justice has only referred to that one team by that one writer, so why does the cartoon have almost nothing to do with the team/why did they pick that name for this team? And the simplest answer is that it is a good dynamic name that they own the trademark to, applies exclusively to teens who main;y have ties to the JLA, and was sitting unused. No malice. Just business.


I don't want to argue this to death since I'm not changing any minds and don't want to come of as (much of) a whiney fanboy, but I'm sorry, this whole thing just feels like someone had a good idea for a DC cartoon, and either Weisman or a DC exec attached the name "Young Justice" to it because they didn't think anybody cared about the original Young Justice. I cared about it and I consider its cancelation one of the two biggest mistakes DC's made in the last 10 years (and they've made some doozies in my opinion). I'm curious, has there been any word on what Peter David thinks?
As I mention above, I highly doubt that even the amount of thought "no one will care about Young Justice" came into play. It is not an act of malice on their part, it is a business decision. Calling the show Justice League Task Force would not advertise the teenage nature of the main characters, Young All-Stars sounds like a sports show, Teen Titans was done with a VERY different tone fairly recently on the same network, League of Titans...might actually have worked in spite of not being very comic-y, and Team Titans...actually might've worked too but it is really close to Teen Titans. The team in the show is a Young Justice...League. The title fits fine.

And Peter David is writing two episodes of the first season and based on his blog posts announcing it, he's pretty happy about it. So yeah.

[Toddman]

There aren't really that many other names for the show that would 1) work 2) be trademarked by DC comics and 3) be easily marketable.

What, didn't you read Shawn Hopkins' list from above...?



Hey, I'm tryin' here. Okay, Extreme Justice then. It's cool, cause it's youthful, and Extreme.

How about The Young All Stars? Young Allies? The Boy Commandos? (This one also fits the premise pretty well). Young Heroes in Love? Team Titans? The Blasters? The Science Police? The Conglomerate? The Global Guardians? Power Company? S.T.A.R. Corps? Super Buddies? (Wow, I really like the idea of them being called the Super Buddies. That amuses me.) R.E.B.E.L.S.? Legion of Substitute Heroes? The New Guardians? The Darkstars? The Trenchcoat Brigade? Super Young Team? Captain Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew?

No, wait, I've got it.

Dingbats of Danger Street. It's perfect. Nobody's using it and only a handful of people remember it and have any expectations about what the team should be like, and it connotes both youthful inexperience and danger. And streets, as a bonus.

You forgot The Inferior Five and the Just'a Lotta Animals. Otherwise brilliant.


Toddman

[BlackoutCreature]

Still doesn't excuse that Marvel's using the title for more than one series. And while were at it, they've been using Excalibur for at least two entirely unrelated teams too. Also, there's what happened several decades ago with DC when Alan Scott and Jay Garrick were suddenly forgotten and replaced by Hal Jordan and Barry Allen with different costumes and variations on their powers. Using the same names for entirely different characters and settings is a long-practiced act for the Big Two.
I'm honestly not familiar with Excalibur so I won't comment on it. I will say the differences between the Golden and Silver Age Flashes and Green Lanterns were different variations on the same concept. The Young Justice comic book series and the Young Justice cartoon are different concepts from the ground up. I'm not against natural growth and change from the source material. I'm not against creators giving there own unique takes on the source material. I'm against ignoring the source material completely.


Well, why should they? If the fans are too apathetic to come up with a better alternative, why expect DC to do something different?
Because it's there job to? Because they're being paid to? I'm a whiney fan complaining on an internet message board. I fully accept nothing I say or do will change a damn thing when it comes to this show. Why should I come up with alternatives that will neither affect anything or get me any money?


I also find your lack of faith in Greg Weisman rather disconcerting. Are familiar with the other shows the man has created?
I'm a huge fan of Gargoyles. I also remember the fuss raised about 2 months ago when it was revealed that Disney was working on a movie called "Gargoyles" that had nothing to do with his old Gargoyles cartoon.


As I mention above, I highly doubt that even the amount of thought "no one will care about Young Justice" came into play. It is not an act of malice on their part, it is a business decision.
Not malice, apathy. The current power that run DC have made it perfectly clear over the last 10 years that they don't care about the old Young Justice series. I see no reason why that apathy wouldn't extend to the naming of the new show.

[James Harvey]

It's safe to say this thread has run its course for the time being. If this topic can be explored from a new fresh angle, the thread'll be re-opened. For now though...Thread Closed.