The Punisher, is he perhaps the Marvel character least likely to get a cartoon?

[The Overlord]

Of all the Marvel characters who are not suitable for kids, Punisher seems like he would be at the top of the list. He seems like the Marvel character least likely to get a cartoon.

Punisher is a borderline psychopath, who kills people all the time. His villains are some of the most evil scum you can imagine, not the kind of characters you expose children to. Your average Garth Ennis Punisher story is unsuitable for anyone under the age of 18. Also it seems of the all Marvel characters, Punisher could work well in a live action TV show, assuming it was made by HBO.

So does anyone agree or disagree with these statements?

[suss2it]

I agree. He's better suited for a live-action TV series.

[Antiyonder]

Considering that there are plans for a Marvel Knights cartoon, he could always have an adult cartoon of his own down the line.

[Shawn Hopkins]

He would get a cartoon before Man-Thing. Man-Thing is a pile of snot that doesn't talk, burns people, seems too strongly like the more popular Swamp Thing, and is named Man-Thing for crying out loud. I personally really like the Man-Thing comics Steve Gerber did, but it's not the kind of thing that would be an easy sell to a TV audience.

The Punisher could always be softened and made non-lethal for a kid audience. It's not like there isn't a precedent. Toxic Avenger is a series of brutal low-budget horror comedies, but that got a kid's cartoon.

[The Overlord]

He would get a cartoon before Man-Thing. Man-Thing is a pile of snot that doesn't talk, burns people, seems too strongly like the more popular Swamp Thing, and is named Man-Thing for crying out loud. I personally really like the Man-Thing comics Steve Gerber did, but it's not the kind of thing that would be an easy sell to a TV audience.

True, but that just makes Punisher the second or third character least likely to get a cartoon. I started this thread more to debate whether Punisher could get a cartoon, more then anything else.



Considering that there are plans for a Marvel Knights cartoon, he could always have an adult cartoon of his own down the line.

Perhaps, but there is nothing really about Punisher that couldn't work well in live action as opposed to a cartoon. In terms of concept, Punisher is a guy with guns who goes around and shoots gangsters, its a pretty realistic and down to earth concept. Considering how successful Dexter is, Marvel might want to make a live action series with the Punisher, instead.

[Shawn Hopkins]

I think he's probably higher on the list than you think. How does this pitch grab you?

Producer: "There's this guy, see, that was born with innate abilities that make him the perfect killer. He can be shot, stabbed, gorily disemboweled, he just keeps coming back to tear your throat out. The government got ahold of this guy a few years ago and erased his memories and made him even more lethal through a series of inhumane medical experiments. Now he's got these huge blades coming out of his hands that can cut through anything and because of the way his head is screwed up because of the experiments he sometimes goes into psychotic rages where he's so out of control even his friends are in danger of being sliced to bloody ribbons. Basically, he's the perfect human murder machine, and he takes full advantage of that and kills people all the time."

Network Executive: "I like it. I like it. But you have to lose the cigar. This is kids TV, after all."

[suss2it]

I think he's probably higher on the list than you think. How does this pitch grab you?

Producer: "There's this guy, see, that was born with innate abilities that make him the perfect killer. He can be shot, stabbed, gorily disemboweled, he just keeps coming back to tear your throat out. The government got ahold of this guy a few years ago and erased his memories and made him even more lethal through a series of inhumane medical experiments. Now he's got these huge blades coming out of his hands that can cut through anything and because of the way his head is screwed up because of the experiments he sometimes goes into psychotic rages where he's so out of control even his friends are in danger of being sliced to bloody ribbons. Basically, he's the perfect human murder machine, and he takes full advantage of that and kills people all the time."

Network Executive: "I like it. I like it. But you have to lose the cigar. This is kids TV, after all."And how much slicing and killing did Wolverine really do? Yeah they could do a cartoon about Punisher but to do it would mean to take away from what makes him, Frank. Unless of course it was rated at least PG-13 like Hulk Vs. Wolverine because that's the first time we've ever seen Wolverine kill people in animation.

[Jeffrey Logan]

Of all the Marvel characters who are not suitable for kids, Punisher seems like he would be at the top of the list. He seems like the Marvel character least likely to get a cartoon.

Punisher is a borderline psychopath, who kills people all the time. His villains are some of the most evil scum you can imagine, not the kind of characters you expose children to. Your average Garth Ennis Punisher story is unsuitable for anyone under the age of 18. Also it seems of the all Marvel characters, Punisher could work well in a live action TV show, assuming it was made by HBO.

So does anyone agree or disagree with these statements?
"Punisher is a borderline psychopath, who kills people all the time."????? He does not kill people. He kills criminals. That's something every person in the world should do.

[Shawn Hopkins]

And how much slicing and killing did Wolverine really do? Yeah they could do a cartoon about Punisher but to do it would mean to take away from what makes him, Frank. Unless of course it was rated at least PG-13 like Hulk Vs. Wolverine because that's the first time we've ever seen Wolverine kill people in animation.

In the comics? Loads. He kills people all the time. The point is that the bloodiness of the source material is not that huge a hindrance to creating a kid's version.

[maczero]

"Punisher is a borderline psychopath, who kills people all the time."????? He does not kill people. He kills criminals. That's something every person in the world should do.Ooookay?:eek:

I wouldn't say it's impossible for Frank to have a cartoon. Spawn had one and it definitely didn't water the character down. Granted action cartoons aimed at adults isn't the norm for American animation but that audience has anime.

I think Punisher's biggest hurdle is that his story's too generic. I've had numerous discussions on why Punisher films do poorly at the box office and the #1 reason people point out is that Punisher is too similar to numerous "payback" characters from the 80's (Bronson, Eastwood etc.). On top of that, there's this tendency to put him in the real world. I'd say that's a mistake. Put him in the same universe as Spiderman, Darevil and other superheroes. Having his go up against people who disapprove of his methods would make for interesting stories. You could also look at how a normal human deals with criminals with super powers. Really make him a lethal version of Batman.

[suss2it]

In the comics? Loads. He kills people all the time. The point is that the bloodiness of the source material is not that huge a hindrance to creating a kid's version.Wolverine does have the X-Men to fallback on, he's almost always been featured with them in animation and when he hasn't he's had The Avengers (or Super Hero Squad, not really sure since I don't watch that show) in [i]Super Hero Squad) to take the spotlight off his killing and have action scenes with other characters so it's just him cutting robots and doors. And the one time he was animated without either team he was a killing machine. Frank doesn't have the luxury have other characters to fallback on for action scenes, and unlike Wolverine (who doesn't need to kill anybody in every story) his main thing is just straight up killing criminals. I don't really see how the Punisher could work in a children's cartoon and still remain the same character.


Ooookay?:eek:

I wouldn't say it's impossible for Frank to have a cartoon. Spawn had one and it definitely didn't water the character down. Granted action cartoons aimed at adults isn't the norm for American animation but that audience has anime.With Disney buying Marvel I don't see them outsourcing any shows to HBO or any other network from now on, so an adult oriented Punisher cartoon wouldn't have anywhere to air.


I think Punisher's biggest hurdle is that his story's too generic. I've had numerous discussions on why Punisher films do poorly at the box office and the #1 reason people point out is that Punisher is too similar to numerous "payback" characters from the 80's (Bronson, Eastwood etc.).I don't think the Punisher is generic, I think that he needs the right creative team behind him to make him work, same could be said for any "generic" idea.


On top of that, there's this tendency to put him in the real world. I'd say that's a mistake. Put him in the same universe as Spiderman, Darevil and other superheroes. Having his go up against people who disapprove of his methods would make for interesting stories. You could also look at how a normal human deals with criminals with super powers. Really make him a lethal version of Batman.Really? I think The Punisher works best in a more real life like setting. I think they could still have people disapprove of his methods with a detective, FBI agent or something who's trying to track him down, or maybe one that's his friend and disapproves of his methods but recognizes it would do more harm than good to bring him in.

[Romperstoomper]

I llke Punsher better as a Spidey semi-villian. I mean he was not that realistic of a character. I tend to think back to the earlier comics when he jumped of rooftops, while shooting upside down and hitting Spiderman and grabbing a flagpool just in time.

He's using guns,, that means he's realistic.

[Shawn Hopkins]

No, no, he wouldn't be the same character. What I'm saying is that precedent shows you can adapt him to a kid's cartoon even though there's all that bloody stuff with him on the comics shelf.

Anyway, Punisher isn't generic, he's a straight ripoff. He's a blatant copy of MacK Bolan: Executioner by Don Pendleton, including origin, background, motivation, methods, they even stole the war wagon and war journal.

[Hordesman]

I think any sort of cartoon with him as a lead is likely in the DTV or Adult Swim realm, although I think a character like Deadpool or Hit-Monkey would work better by adding humor in with the hyperviolence of a PG13+ or TVMA take.

As a lead character for kids, you're heading into Rambo and the Forces of Freedom terrain and really shouldn't bother.

Still, the Punisher has a better shot of headlining an animated production than Aunt May.

[The Overlord]

No, no, he wouldn't be the same character. What I'm saying is that precedent shows you can adapt him to a kid's cartoon even though there's all that bloody stuff with him on the comics shelf.

Anyway, Punisher isn't generic, he's a straight ripoff. He's a blatant copy of MacK Bolan: Executioner by Don Pendleton, including origin, background, motivation, methods, they even stole the war wagon and war journal.

I think with all the stuff Ennis has done with the character, Punisher has moved far beyond just being a Executioner clone. Punisher became a title about exploring the fact that Punisher is a psychopath and was a psychopath before his family got killed, that just the last straw. Ennis explores the fact a sane person would have stopped after killing the people who murdered his family, but Frank keeps on going. Frank enjoys killing, that's what makes him different from every other 80s revenge character, plus in the Max series he goes into some darker places then most 80s action heroes.

Punisher just lacks a lot of the things that would make him a good cartoon in general. He has almost no supporting cast, he has no colorful rogues gallery (he kills most of his foes by the end of the story) and no real love interest. He is just a loner psychopath who kills criminals.

So what would they do with Sat morning Punisher? Have Frank use laser guns to stop Jigsaw's "Crime-Bots" from robbing banks every week? I don't think that be appealing to anyone.

[Goof Troop]

"Punisher is a borderline psychopath, who kills people all the time."????? He does not kill people. He kills criminals. That's something every person in the world should do.

I'm glad I don't live in Estonia. People there need more hobbies.

[Rick Jones]

Really? I think The Punisher works best in a more real life like setting. I think they could still have people disapprove of his methods with a detective, FBI agent or something who's trying to track him down, or maybe one that's his friend and disapproves of his methods but recognizes it would do more harm than good to bring him in.

That sounds like Louis Gossett Jr. :)

[AlgeaX]

"Punisher is a borderline psychopath, who kills people all the time."????? He does not kill people. He kills criminals. That's something every person in the world should do.

Yeah man, screw all that Hippie Due Process, Fair Trial, Bill of Rights crud! :rolleyes:

[asphaltviking64]

Luke Cage.

Unless if you team up Luke Cage and the Punisher and go for a Heroes for Hire sort of show.

Like a buddy cop show for kids, teaching kids responsibility and morals and how assert themselves...

Bad idea. Don't destroy the integrity of the character. Hope that Isaiah Mustafa plays Luke Cage in a live action movie instead.

[JTMarsh]

I don't see the Punisher getting his own cartoon any time soon.

[Robin2099]

I think with all the stuff Ennis has done with the character, Punisher has moved far beyond just being a Executioner clone. Punisher became a title about exploring the fact that Punisher is a psychopath and was a psychopath before his family got killed, that just the last straw. Ennis explores the fact a sane person would have stopped after killing the people who murdered his family, but Frank keeps on going. Frank enjoys killing, that's what makes him different from every other 80s revenge character, plus in the Max series he goes into some darker places then most 80s action heroes.

Punisher just lacks a lot of the things that would make him a good cartoon in general. He has almost no supporting cast, he has no colorful rogues gallery (he kills most of his foes by the end of the story) and no real love interest. He is just a loner psychopath who kills criminals.

So what would they do with Sat morning Punisher? Have Frank use laser guns to stop Jigsaw's "Crime-Bots" from robbing banks every week? I don't think that be appealing to anyone.

Or they could just do an R-rated cartoon on HBO, Cinemax, or Showtime.

[Shawn Hopkins]

I don't see why a Luke Cage cartoon or Heroes for Hire cartoon co-starring Iron Fist is so out there. He's probably Marvel's most prominent black character and there's nothing really objectionable about his methods, at least not as hard to adapt to kid's cartoons as the Punisher.

[TMC1982]

The only way that I could see a "mainstream", "kid-friendly" Punisher cartoon work is if you drastically alter the premise (i.e. make it less gritty and grounded in reality and more "futuristic" and sci-fi) like have Frank Castle hunt down machines (a la Blade Runner) or monsters/aliens instead.

[Matt Hazuda]

He would get a cartoon before Man-Thing. Man-Thing is a pile of snot that doesn't talk, burns people, seems too strongly like the more popular Swamp Thing, and is named Man-Thing for crying out loud. I personally really like the Man-Thing comics Steve Gerber did, but it's not the kind of thing that would be an easy sell to a TV audience.The awful made-for-TV movie on SciFi proved that.

Pointing out another thing, Man-Thing came first (http://comiccoverage.typepad.com/comic_coverage/2007/10/which-came-firs.html) (wow, that sounds horrible written out :sweat:)


The only way that I could see a "mainstream", "kid-friendly" Punisher cartoon work is if you drastically alter the premise (i.e. make it less gritty and grounded in reality and more "futuristic" and sci-fi) like have Frank Castle hunt down machines (a la Blade Runner) or monsters/aliens instead.Both the failed Punisher: Purgatory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Punisher:_Purgatory) miniseries and the current non-MAX Punisher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punisher_%282009_series%29#.22Dead_and_Alive.22_.28.2311-16.29) series have done that. The former dealing with Frank killing demons and angels and stuff and the latter dealing with Frank having died and being revived into "Franken-Castle" *nearly vomits at the stupid name* to help the monsters of the 616 against their enemies.

[Romperstoomper]

Dude, Franken castle is not a bad comic.
You know he'll return to normal just in time;).

Just finished reading about him going up against Daken... it's ok. Not great, but ok.
I like when the Punisher is given diffrent powers... cause it's funny.

[Matt Hazuda]

Dude, Franken castle is not a bad comic.
You know he'll return to normal just in time;).Maybe Mephisto can undo everything that happened to him as well :p

[Southern Dandy]

The Punisher was decent in his appearances in in the 1990s Spider-Man cartoon (http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/enterpunisher.jpg). He was hunting 'Man-Spider' using a van full of fancy tech like custom-made advanced guns and a rocket pack. The only thing I didn't like about him was that he didn't look very intimidating. He seemed a bit scrawny, wore a headband, trench coat, and a blue (instead of black) shirt and worst of all, used guns that shot lazers or nets.

He was obviously watered down due to censorship, but not a total disgrace. I guess Wolverine was more badass in the 90s X-Men show because even though he didn't cut people up, he'd slash the hell out of sentinels, had an appropriately gruff voice and grumpy attitude, and looked just like he has in comics.