What if...

[Dusty]

What If WB/DC came to use/ general fans with a poll to choose the next type of DC animated show for Cartoon Network, what kind of DC show would you want?

Would you want one that focuses on one hero, (your favorite hero with occasional, but not too often appearances of other DC heroes) not quite like BATB but more like STAS or The Batman season 5 and on) or would you prefer a show like waht JL and JLUwere? BATB doesn't really qualify IMO in either category because it may focus more often on Batman than other DC heroes, but not enough to call it a completely Batman centric show (but that's just my opinion.) So to put it simply what would you want DC to make aside from the shows that are currently in production? Would you want a new updated Justice League or DC Universe show with rotating guest stars? Not the same 6 or 7 characters everytime like BATB does, or would you rather have a show like BTAS, TNBA, or STAS that focuses almost 99% on one specific hero?
discuss, vote and/or brainstorm away... :)


D.

[the greenman]

The one issue I have with team-centric shows, is unless your traveling like star trek, you have to spend doubly more time developing the characters. There are just so many stories to tell, especially to be adapted, that it would be smarter to have one central character and his/her little universe.

We have seen it done time and again with Bats and Supes. It would be nice to open up some more. Weve seen Captain marvel, ww, swamp thing, and flash in live action versions, and plastic man, Aquaman in animation. They should open it up some more. Maybe Dr. Fate, green arrow, kamandi (which i really want to see from timm), deadman, whoever. The issue always comes down to, like timm brought up about Spectre, can a series of full length stories have legs?

[Silverstar]

I would probably say the usual "let's give some of the characters besides Batman and Superman their own solo series" like Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern (though we are getting a GL core series), yadda yadda yadda. But the thing with that is that not every DC hero has the meat and potatoes to make a solo series interesting.

Team shows can also be problematic, for the very reason the_greenman said above: when you have a big honking bunch of characters, you're faced with the task of trying to give everyone an ample amount of screen time and character development in a limited amount of time. Also, when your team is too large, inevitably you're going to have characters whose powers and personalities overlap and are redundant. (That's why I never liked the JL Army idea on JLU, but most of the stories were good so I dealt with it.)

To name one example: I'd like to see DC tackle Legion of Superheroes again, only this time, instead of Superman and an ever-changing rotating roster of Legionnaires, I would put a core group of characters in front (no more than, say, 3 or 4) and the others would either just support them or have occasional guest appearances. Heck, maybe put Supergirl in front instead of Superman, kind of like a follow-up to "Far from Home".

[Blackstar]

Personally, I'd rather have a new animated series focusing on a single hero rather than another team focused show, since we're already getting a Green Lantern and Young Justice series.

My pick would be a Captain Marvel animated series. The character hasn't had a TV series since the Filmation produced live action Saturday morning show in the 1970s.

After that, Wonder Woman. We've had series built around Batman and Superman, why not give a WW animated series a shot? I realize that a super hero show starring a woman wouldn't be an easy sell, but a talented team of writers and directors could pull it off.

[k.s.]

Between the Brave and the Bold, Young Justice, and the Green Lantern cartoon, I feel like DC's doing a good job of exploring the DC Universe and showing us a team dynamic. So if I had a choice, I would go with a solo superhero series since we've got the team aspect covered.

As for the specific hero, Superman and Batman (especially Batman) have had more than their fair share of solo outings, and Green Lantern's finally getting his chance in the spotlight. I'd personally go for Flash as the next hero, but I'd also put Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Captain Marvel, Blue Beetle and maybe even Hawkman and Green Arrow as options. Flash has a rogues gallery that is arguably as strong as either Superman's or Batman's, so I could easily see a Flash tv series that has the legs to last long-term. In fact, after watching Flash and Substance, I have to wonder why DC's never tried to make a Flash cartoon yet.

Wonder Woman's got a strong cast of characters too, but it looks like DC isn't too keen on female superheroes right now. I don't know too much about the supporting cast and rogues gallery for the rest, but they're all big names in DC or have started to gain popularity in recent years (like Green Arrow and Blue Beetle) so there's a chance we could see a series based off of one of these characters.

[BigFatHairyDeal]

As much as I liked the Justice League cartoon, I think the idea is generally flawed in the regard that the characters are meant for solo titles, and the All-Star format has a bit of diminishing returns.

Obviously, most of us here are hardcore, or at least semi-hardcore. These programs really aren't made with us in mind, they're looking for ways to hook the recreational watchers with the hope of creating a gateway to hardcore following and/or the purchasing of related paraphernalia. It's not that DC wants you addicted and doesn't care what you do after, but the strategy is always getting that one additional sale from someone who might not be as eager. So, throughout the most part I'm quite okay with using Superman and Batman as gateways to other heroes by using regular cameo appearances. To date, it's still the best way to expose kids to the DC Universe lineup.

*Words italicized to emphasize an obvious implicit analogy that's not necessarily suitable for this board.

[Edgar]

My pick would be a Captain Marvel animated series. The character hasn't had a TV series since the Filmation produced live action Saturday morning show in the 1970s.

...back in Fall of '81, there was a Saturday morning show I remembered called The Kid Super Power Hour with Shazam! (...as I looked up just now, also by Filmation) ...IIRC, the show was a mix of a live-action music/sketch comedy show (with cast/band members portraying the "Hero High" characters) with animated shorts featuring either "Captain Marvel and family" (The only TV version of the character I remember to include Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr, and Uncle Marvel) or "Hero High" (a high-school for super-powered teens ...which I remember having similarities, character-wise, to another Filmation show The Archies ) ...now, I'm not sure this qualifies verbatim as a "Captain Marvel animated series" (since I think I remember it being an "either/or" situation: episodes showing either Captain Marvel or Hero High) ...but I thought I'd give it a shout-out in case Blackstar hadn't heard of it (ha! "Blackstar", another Filmation show ;) )

The Kid Super Power Hour with Shazam!
Shazam! intro (http://www.retrojunk.com/tv/videos/1712-kid-super-power-hour-with-shazam/1811/#intro)
cast & credits (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0210425/)

...aside, it's my opinion that a hero-show have a great "rouges gallery" ...Superman has a great rogues gallery (Lex Luthor, Bizarro, Darkseid, etc) ...Batman has an amazing rogues gallery (Joker, Catwoman, Ra's Al Ghul, etc) ...Green Lantern has a good rogues gallery (Sinestro, Star Sapphire, Hector Hammond, etc) ...and, Flash has a great rogues gallery too (Captain Cold, Professor Zoom, Gorilla Grod, etc) ...to that, what little I know of Captain Marvel and his story, he seems to have a few contenders in his rogues ...I know of Dr Sivana, Black Adam, & Sabbac ...I think a modern Captain Marvel series could be interesting if they revamped or just shed "cheesier" characters like Mr. Mind and Uncle Marvel (...and, yes, I know one of CM's nick-names is "The Big Red Cheese")

...tho, [B]my pick would be Flash ...especially if they covered/included, in some capacity, the main 4 that have worn the mantle (Jay Garrick, Barry Allen, Wally West, and Bart Allen) ...anyway, like I said, just my opinion :)

[Blackstar]

D'oh! I completely forgot about The Kids' Super Power Hour with Shazam! And the thing is, I actually watched 1 episode of that on NBC (My local NBC didn't carry the show, so I only got to watch it once with on an out of town station with a static-y picture.

[Antiyonder]

So, throughout the most part I'm quite okay with using Superman and Batman as gateways to other heroes by using regular cameo appearances. To date, it's still the best way to expose kids to the DC Universe lineup.

But it's unnecessary.

See, the problem with DC's mentality that a cartoon featuring an obscure hero will more likely fail is that we've had cartoons experience success even without having a famous franchise to cash in on such as:

- Scooby Doo
- The Flintstones
- Looney Tunes
- The Simpsons
- Spongebob Squarepants
- Family Guy
- Ben 10
- Total Drama Island

They're big hits today or were in the case of The Flintstones, but the fact is, there was no guarantee that these cartoons would develop such a following. These cartoons unlike say Batman or Spider-Man had to gain an audience without a preexisting successful comic book.

If anything, I'd think that a cartoon based off an obscure comic book character (Elongated Man) is less risky than a cartoon which starts out with no ties to any franchise (Ben 10).


I would probably say the usual "let's give some of the characters besides Batman and Superman their own solo series" like Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern (though we are getting a GL core series), yadda yadda yadda. But the thing with that is that not every DC hero has the meat and potatoes to make a solo series interesting.

Depends entirely on the writer. I mean some would say that Superman can't be an interesting character due to being idealistic, but Superman The Animated Series pulled things off well.

Though I do Booster Gold could be a compeling solo character. Basically just go with the notion that a guy from the 30th century wants to make a name for himself in the present time. Start him off pulling heroic deeds for thrills and glory, only for him to grow into an actual hero.

[BigFatHairyDeal]

But it's unnecessary.

See, the problem with DC's mentality that a cartoon featuring an obscure hero will more likely fail is that we've had cartoons experience success even without having a famous franchise to cash in on such as:

- Scooby Doo
- The Flintstones
- Looney Tunes
- The Simpsons
- Spongebob Squarepants
- Family Guy
- Ben 10
- Total Drama Island

They're big hits today or were in the case of The Flintstones, but the fact is, there was no guarantee that these cartoons would develop such a following. These cartoons unlike say Batman or Spider-Man had to gain an audience without a preexisting successful comic book.

If anything, I'd think that a cartoon based off an obscure comic book character (Elongated Man) is less risky than a cartoon which starts out with no ties to any franchise (Ben 10).

I have no idea if it costs more or less to use DC heroes than it is to come up with new ones altogether. Maybe there are royalties that cut into profitability, I can't say. But I can say for certain that today's TV/Movie business is extremely risk averse compared to before, and it has absolutely destroyed creativity. That's why we get remakes, sequels, and garbage based on video games on the movie side, and on TV we get low production cost ridiculous reality-like TV shows, as well as more remakes.

So when you consider the decreasing popularity of TV these days thanks to things like internet and video games, and the bad economy, I sort of understand why WB has gotten pretty tight-fisted and unwilling to be adventurous with lesser heroes. And if that's going to be the reality, that they'll minimize risk at every corner, then I think we can still get good programs that feature as many different heroes while bringing back frequent guest stars, sort of how Brave and the Bold, and to a lesser degree STAS, worked.

While I say that that might be our best bet for the time being, I do agree with you, because kids watch ANYTHING cartoon. My friend read a book the other week that explained that TV execs think backwards when it comes to kids' programming. Actually, the problem is that they DON'T think backwards and assume kids' viewing habits are the same as adults. Kids will watch the same thing several times a week, or even several times a day, if it was worth their attention the first time around. As an example, it used the show Blues Clues as one of the most effective models for edutainment, because the network showed the same episode repeatedly throughout the week and kids would continue watching it and let the ideas get hammered into their brains. I need to find out the name of that book, because that principle alone got me intrigued.

[Yojimbo]

My first choice would be a Suicide Squad animated series. Nuff said.

second choice: a sequel to Batman: The Brave and The Bold, Superman: World's Finest. It'd be the same format and continuity of TBATB but with Superman as the lead character.

[suss2it]

I have no idea if it costs more or less to use DC heroes than it is to come up with new ones altogether. Maybe there are royalties that cut into profitability, I can't say. But I can say for certain that today's TV/Movie business is extremely risk averse compared to before, and it has absolutely destroyed creativity. That's why we get remakes, sequels, and garbage based on video games on the movie side, and on TV we get low production cost ridiculous reality-like TV shows, as well as more remakes.

So when you consider the decreasing popularity of TV these days thanks to things like internet and video games, and the bad economy, I sort of understand why WB has gotten pretty tight-fisted and unwilling to be adventurous with lesser heroes. And if that's going to be the reality, that they'll minimize risk at every corner, then I think we can still get good programs that feature as many different heroes while bringing back frequent guest stars, sort of how Brave and the Bold, and to a lesser degree STAS, worked.

While I say that that might be our best bet for the time being, I do agree with you, because kids watch ANYTHING cartoon. My friend read a book the other week that explained that TV execs think backwards when it comes to kids' programming. Actually, the problem is that they DON'T think backwards and assume kids' viewing habits are the same as adults. Kids will watch the same thing several times a week, or even several times a day, if it was worth their attention the first time around. As an example, it used the show Blues Clues as one of the most effective models for edutainment, because the network showed the same episode repeatedly throughout the week and kids would continue watching it and let the ideas get hammered into their brains. I need to find out the name of that book, because that principle alone got me intrigued.
What does any of this have to do with a hypothetical cartoon?

My first choice would be a Suicide Squad animated series. Nuff said.
Suicide Squad is a good choice, I loved "Task Force X" of JLU so I'd love a Suicide Squad show. I like the idea of a team focusing on villains do good things with questionable means.


second choice: a sequel to Batman: The Brave and The Bold, Superman: World's Finest. It'd be the same format and continuity of TBATB but with Superman as the lead character.
I think that a Brave and the Bold with no lead would be better than one anchored by either Batman or Superman.

[Yojimbo]

Suicide Squad is a good choice, I loved "Task Force X" of JLU so I'd love a Suicide Squad show. I like the idea of a team focusing on villains do good things with questionable means.Agreed! Took my one line blurb and made it beautiful.


I think that a Brave and the Bold with no lead would be better than one anchored by either Batman or Superman.True, that's originally what The Brave and The Bold was before Batman got a TV show. Maybe I'm just missing watching an animated series starring Superman, too. For some reason.

[suss2it]

Agreed! Took my one line blurb and made it beautiful.Thanks :D


True, that's originally what The Brave and The Bold was before Batman got a TV show. Maybe I'm just missing watching an animated series starring Superman, too. For some reason.Probably because he hasn't his own show since Legion of Super Heroes. With the upcoming live-action Superman movie he should be getting an accompanying cartoon. I'm glad he'll at least be appearing in Young Justice but I'm pretty sure Batman is gonna have a much bigger role in that show.

[ABrown]

I would probably say the usual "let's give some of the characters besides Batman and Superman their own solo series" like Wonder Woman


Wonder Woman. We've had series built around Batman and Superman, why not give a WW animated series a shot? I realize that a super hero show starring a woman wouldn't be an easy sell, but a talented team of writers and directors could pull it off.

Wonder Woman would easily be my pick for an animted DC cartoon. I just wouldn't want it to be like Batman:TB&TB. Batman:TB&TB was great for Batman cause he's already had his turn in the spotlight. I would want it to be a pure Wonder Woman series.

[the greenman]

I think a Suicide Squad series would be great. But at least.one member must die once a season. The missions could be like mission impossible.

[Yojimbo]

I think a Suicide Squad series would be great. But at least.one member must die once a season. The missions could be like mission impossible.Agreed, otherwise it becomes didactic/sometimes funny procedurals like the A-Team, Get Smart, etc. Infusing that type of show with supervillains is a win in my book. And since there's always a supervillain in jail waiting to accept a pardon, a partial rotating cast would be a slam dunk.

[SSJBatman]

While I say that that might be our best bet for the time being, I do agree with you, because kids watch ANYTHING cartoon. My friend read a book the other week that explained that TV execs think backwards when it comes to kids' programming. Actually, the problem is that they DON'T think backwards and assume kids' viewing habits are the same as adults. Kids will watch the same thing several times a week, or even several times a day, if it was worth their attention the first time around. As an example, it used the show Blues Clues as one of the most effective models for edutainment, because the network showed the same episode repeatedly throughout the week and kids would continue watching it and let the ideas get hammered into their brains. I need to find out the name of that book, because that principle alone got me intrigued.

...Sadly, this is true. :p

I grew up on Blues Clues (I'm 15)and BTAS + Tim Burton's Batman movies all at the same time (I was about 3 years old). I would rewatch one thing REPEATEDLY no matter HOW many times I had seen it.

In fact, repetition was one of the main focuses of that show, the more you repeat something with a younger child, the more and more they learn from it.

Being the oldest of 5 kids, as you get older and watch your little siblings, is when you start to notice the repetition thing with them.

But of course, you have to get them hooked in first.

I got hooked on Batman, so you can obviously see what kinds of things I'd watch as a kid. But getting back on topic...

I do think that getting kids exposed to more of what we like will really help in the long term, because the more the younger generation likes something, the more kinds of things will be produced for them. And I think that out of all the other DC Heroes that you could use, I think Flash could work best as the next new Superhero to introduce to them in his own series. I'm a Wally West Flash fan, I'll admit, mainly due to JL/JLU and I Like his attitude. But also, looking back, Flash is a much more brighter hero than Superman or Batman, and you could use him in a bunch of different situations that you couldn't use Batman or Superman in.

I think that a Flash Series that starts out with Barry and Wally as Kid Flash, and is most of the time lighthearted could work well, depending on how it's handled. I think Flash could appeal to a lot of the younger kids out there, because he's definitely one of DC's Kid appeal characters. Like Blue Beetle (Jaime) is getting to be one now.

I think I'm rambling a bit but, I think what I'm really trying to say is that getting the younger kids who will eventually grow up to be one of us exposed to more things as a kid will definitely help in the long run about what shows or characters get produced or put in the spotlight in the future.

If we keep exposing them to Batman and Superman, we may only keep seeing those franchises in the mainstream, which is why I think a chance should be taken in trying to expose them into other parts of the DCU, such as The Flash, Blue Beetle or Wonder Woman

[Alph]

Definitely a solo series. And I definitely like the idea of it being about The Flash. Preferably JL/JLU's Flash (yeah yeah, I know the DCAU's dead, but I can dream).

[the greenman]

I wouldn't worry about a Flash series. He's apparenntly next in queue for a film according to WB. It is also safe to assume justice league film is in the works, but Johns and the other woman in charge of DC films didn't say much on this. Probably because Nolan is against his Batman being in a team setting. This means they will either fire Nolan in a few years to reboot Batman after they reboot Superman, or they will make a team without him.

But back on topic, im not surprised about a flash series happening. Like i said before, id like to open it up some more.

[Silverbolt]

If I were running the show I'd want something big, a 26 half hour episode Justice League style season. The season would cover a major story line, something that really couldn't be explored in a direct to video movie format.

There would be two 3 episode chapters, one to open and one to close the season. These would have as many heroes as necessary and wouldn't really be about character development as they would be about story development

The league would be broken up into teams with each team getting four or five episodes over the course of the season.

You could group the teams episodes together as a chapter or spread them out to give a greater feel of time passing

Obviously each team would have to have a heavy hitter of sorts on it, but if done right you could develop a number of characters in the animated world and maybe find a few that could carry their own show.

If the show is well animated, well written, and well cast any hero would work in their own series. All heroes are nothing but ink on a page till the masses breathe life into them.

[suss2it]

If I were running the show I'd want something big, a 26 half hour episode Justice League style season. The season would cover a major story line, something that really couldn't be explored in a direct to video movie format.

There would be two 3 episode chapters, one to open and one to close the season. These would have as many heroes as necessary and wouldn't really be about character development as they would be about story development

The league would be broken up into teams with each team getting four or five episodes over the course of the season.

You could group the teams episodes together as a chapter or spread them out to give a greater feel of time passing

Obviously each team would have to have a heavy hitter of sorts on it, but if done right you could develop a number of characters in the animated world and maybe find a few that could carry their own show.

If the show is well animated, well written, and well cast any hero would work in their own series. All heroes are nothing but ink on a page till the masses breathe life into them.
I really like the idea of how your Justice League would work. After watching Crisis On Two Earths I thought that the way the Crime Syndicate was set up would make the perfect Justice League team. Each founding member as their own squad for specific missions and if need be 2 or more squads would team-up and when necessary members would rotate to another squad.

I also like your story structure, I'd be first in line to watch your show.

[the greenman]

Thats pretty much what happened in jlu, though. Jonn seemed to organize teams with a single founding member.

[Silverbolt]

Thats pretty much what happened in jlu, though. Jonn seemed to organize teams with a single founding member.

It is sort of what was done in JLU, in that though Jonn assigned what he felt was the best possible unit out of what he had available. Which in the end generally reduced a massive league to a additional 7-10 characters over the core group.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this format, I'd have gladly given JL/JLU another two or three seasons changing the cast as required by major movies and DTV features.

This would be a expanded version of that with double the episodes in a season allowing for more character development, and limited cross team involvement.

I'd want to flesh out more characters in the DCAU, but realize that in order to get the largest audience to start with you need to have some heavy hitters involved.

Casual fans when they see Justice League will almost always wonder where "Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are"