WHY wasn't Plastic Man in JLU again?

[DisneyBoy]

Just caught his appearance on Brave and Bold and LOVED IT. He's not a character I'm too familiar with...but anyone who stuffs his mouth with money while calling it "cabbage" is a winner in my book.

[CyberCubed]

Green Lantern said it best, "We don't need two stretchy guys."

[BlackoutCreature]

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I think the rights for the character were tied up in another series for him that never materialized.

[theRedDeath]

WB was shopping around an animated Pilot for a Plastic Man TV series at the time. So there was a temporary "Plastic Man Embargo". But no networks picked up the pilot, and thus the character is fair game once again.

The pilot was even posted here once. It was very silly, more "Ren & Stimpy" than superhero.

EDIT:
I actually found it by simply googling "Plastic Man Pilot". I don't know if i'm allowed to post the link, but it's easy enough to find. Just look for the one dated (2006)

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[Yojimbo]

WB was shopping around an animated Pilot for a Plastic Man TV series at the time. So there was a temporary "Plastic Man Embargo". But no networks picked up the pilot, and thus the character is fair game once again.

The pilot was even posted here once. It was very silly, more "Ren & Stimpy" than superhero.I actually found it by simply googling "Plastic Man Pilot". I don't know if i'm allowed to post the link, but it's easy enough to find. Just look for the one dated (2006) It was also included as a special feature on the Plastic Man animated series set a few months ago. I added it to my site if anyone wants to take a look at some images. It was a funnier show, I agree it's very reminiscent of Ren & Stimpy. The ending of the pilot was a hoot. Even though it didn't get picked up, Tom Kenny became the voice of Plastic Man anyway on The Brave and The Bold and I think Andy Suriano did storyboards or something, too, on TBATB.

I'd guess an embargo, silly cadre of lawyers, or the staff on JLU couldn't get a good story pitch and passed on it like with Firestorm.

[the greenman]

I thought there was a film script back in the late 90's and jim carrey was attached. Then he dropped out and that killed it.

[SSJBatman]

God I HATE those embargos. And in hindsight, they never made any sense.

[theRedDeath]

Eh, I don't think the Aquaman or Plastic Man embargo's really made that big of a deal. Even the Batman villain Embargo on JLU wasn't even that big of a deal.

The only "Embargos" that I think really hurt the show in the long run is:

-Not being able to use Scarecrow or Ras Al Ghul in "The Batman" because of "Batman Begins". "The Batman" needed all the help it could get, and Scarecrow is one of the rare cases where Matsuda's crazy redesigns could have actually worked really well for the character.

-Not being able to use Superman or Wonder Woman in "Brave and the Bold." Which I think I heard somewhere that they actually resolved this, and if it's true I can't wait to see it.

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[SSJBatman]

Not saying they made any bit of difference, I just think that they were really just stupid in the first place. JL and JLU did fine even with the embargos in place, but I would've liked to have seen Scarecrow and Two-Face in The Batman :/

Ra's al Ghul too, probably.

But again, I'm just saying that I think it's a really stupid rule that never made a lot of sense to me.

[Yojimbo]

-Not being able to use Superman or Wonder Woman in "Brave and the Bold." Which I think I heard somewhere that they actually resolved this, and if it's true I can't wait to see it.

---It's been resolved and they will appear on that show and Young Justice.

[SSJBatman]

It's been resolved and they will appear on that show and Young Justice.
No more Embargos for the time being?

[Yojimbo]

No more Embargos for the time being?None until the lawyers make something up again. :p

[SSJBatman]

None until the lawyers make something up again. :p
God I hope they don't, there isn't and hasn't ever really been a reason to do so :p

But whatever, I'll take my Season 3 of B&TB with Wonder Woman and Batman and be happy with it then, along with YJ

[the greenman]

Actually, I think ww has a standing embargo due to guest appearances. I guess this has been resolved as well. Cause she has yet to appear on smallville.

[SSJBatman]

Actually, I think ww has a standing embargo due to guest appearances. I guess this has been resolved as well. Cause she has yet to appear on smallville.
I don't think that's the case, I think it's more of that it's not appropriate to introduce Diana into it.

I think it'd feel weird to see her in Smallville now lol. Especially since Bruce hasn't appeared in any shape or form, so I'd rather just have Superman than 2/3s of the trinity missing the other

[theRedDeath]

WW's issue has always been that she can only be a starring character in a show. She can never just be a guest star.

How they got around that, I don't know. In "Young Justice" you could make an argument that she's a staple character, even if she's not one of main kid characters, but her appearance in "Brave and the Bold" means that they've recently just straight up beaten the rule. I have no idea how these legal issues are resolved behind the scenes, but I'm happy for it. It could be a result of the "DC Entertainment" division that was recently created, and we're just seeing the consequences of that now.

As for WW in "Smallville", I shudder to think what that show would do to her. Then again, with her recent Jim Lee redesign, she just might fit right in. And it IS the final season after all.

(Wonder Woman DOES exist in the Smallville continuity BTW, she was referenced on Newspaper covers as addressing the United Nations on behalf of Themyscira.)

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[Bat-Fan Beyond]

The only "Embargos" that I think really hurt the show in the long run is:

-Not being able to use Scarecrow or Ras Al Ghul in "The Batman" because of "Batman Begins". "The Batman" needed all the help it could get, and Scarecrow is one of the rare cases where Matsuda's crazy redesigns could have actually worked really well for the character.

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You're right! Scarecrow, Ra's Al Ghul, and don't forget Two-Face!

I still love "The Batman" -- Such a dynamic series. It's a real shame some fans didn't give it the respect and appreciation it deserved just because it came out on the heels of the DCAU. Hopefully some day reluctant fans will revisit it, see it for what it was, and realize it was a lot better than they originally gave it credit for.

[Ed Liu]

WW's issue has always been that she can only be a starring character in a show. She can never just be a guest star.
I've seen this cited occasionally as a fact, but never seen a confirmation of it. I'm just not sure that it's actually true, especially since WW's first appearance on TV was as a guest star on The Brady Kids (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/05/14/comic-book-legends-revealed-207/). It sounds a bit too much like the urban legend that DC has to keep her comic in publication or else they'll lose the rights to the character, which was true at one point but isn't any more (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2005/06/03/comic-book-urban-legend-revealed-1/). I might see if the Comic Book Legends guys can answer this one.

In any event, to answer the original question and the one about Superman, when I talked with the crew before Brave & the Bold premiered (http://www.toonzone.net/news/articles/25163/toon-zones-brave-amp-the-bold-james-tucker-michael-jelenic-amp-linda-m.-steiner), James Tucker said that they could only do a one-time appearance with Plastic Man on JLU and they couldn't come up with one worth using the character for. He also said that while the rights were tied up for Superman, they weren't planning on using him because it's been done before, and there was precedent for not using him because he didn't appear in the Brave & the Bold comics until very late in the game (I'm assuming Tucker is right, since I admit I never looked up the factoid he pulls out of memory). I didn't ask about Wonder Woman specifically (though I should have), but she actually showed up a lot more often in the comics. The animated movie was in production at the time, though, so odds are those rights kept her out of the show initially.

EDIT: And I forgot that in the second interview I did with Tucker (http://www.toonzone.net/news/articles/29472/toon-zone-news-interviews-the-brave-and-bold-james-tucker), he says right out that they weren't able to get the rights to Wonder Woman. Maybe that'll change, but for now I'm just going to assume that's still true.

[theRedDeath]

The WW thing IS true (or at least "was), i'll try to find some more evidence of it.

As for Superman (and Wonder Woman) appearing on BatB, they did say they didn't want to use Superman at first, but they later went on to say that they did want to use him but couldn't. That's precisely WHY in "Sidekicks Assemble" they could only show Superman and Wonder Woman from behind and obscured angles.

That's also why them coming out and saying: "Hey, we can use Superman and Wonder Woman now" is even news....

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[ShadowStar]

Just caught his appearance on Brave and Bold and LOVED IT. He's not a character I'm too familiar with...but anyone who stuffs his mouth with money while calling it "cabbage" is a winner in my book.

Ah, you mean "Terror on Dinosaur Island!"? I didn't really like that episode at all... Dinosaur Island didn't make for an interesting environment, the story wasn't all that and this version of Grodd is very much in the shadow of his DCAU counterpart (to say the least!).

"Long Arm of the Law!" on the other hand, I really enjoyed.

[ABrown]

He's not a character I'm too familiar with.

You never saw the Plastic Man tv show? It was over 20 years ago now, but I'm pretty sure that I remember watching reruns of it on Nickelodeon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Plastic_Man_Comedy/Adventure_Show

[Blue Beetle]

Yeah the whole WW can't be used unless she's a title character seems to be an urban legend thats been repeated so much people tend to say it as a fact but I've never seen any evidence. The fact that she'll appear in YJ and TBATB without being a main character should prove this. Her rights do seem to be a bit more difficult to get than the average hero and with the fact that I'm guessing she isn't a huge priority for shows is the main reason we don't see her.

Are the Embargos still in place? With BaTB/Smallville/YJ/GLshow/GLmovie/Batman3/DTVs etc they all seem to have the same characters without having to worry much for an embargo. Heck I'd say its even more confusing having a line of DTVs were each story is independent of the last and we have new versions of Batman/Superman etc in each of them.

[theRedDeath]

I KNOW the Wonder Woman embargo wasn't an urban legend, because I only heard about it from someone on this forum, either B.T. himself or some other producer. Edit: I found this quote from Paul Dini on the old Toonzone Watchtower site:


Paul Dini on Wonder Woman (circa 2000): “There’s kind of a licensing problem: if we wanted to do Wonder Woman as a series, we could do that, [but] if it was a guest-shot, it was a little more problematic. I don’t really understand it—it just turned out to be easier all the way around [to use Big Barda in the Batman Beyond episode 'The Call'...] we love Wonder Woman—Bruce [Timm] did that great design of her, which is now a maquette at the Warner Bros. store. At some point, we’ll do Wonder Woman…we just need to fight that battle when we get to it (courtesy of [website name removed]).”

And the evidence for it is all over. That's why they had to use Big Barda in "The Call" episode of Batman Beyond, and why they could only show "Wondergirl" in a brief tiny little headshot in the Teen Titans finale.

I don't pretend to understand what the situation is now, and I really think the "DC Entertainment" thing is a huge game-changer, but I know that was the case then even if it isn't anymore.

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[suss2it]

EDIT: And I forgot that in the second interview I did with Tucker (http://www.toonzone.net/news/articles/29472/toon-zone-news-interviews-the-brave-and-bold-james-tucker), he says right out that they weren't able to get the rights to Wonder Woman. Maybe that'll change, but for now I'm just going to assume that's still true.
It did change. They announced at the SDCC that Superman & Wonder Woman will be appearing in an episode together.

[Southern Dandy]

Justice League paid homage to Superfriends many times, but never used The Riddler or Scarecrow, despite the presence of both on Superfriends. Does anyone think this may have been because of an embargo or the writers just couldn't think of anything for them to do? Those were two of my favourite characters from the Timmverse (well, the TNBA version of The Scarecrow). I would have loved to see them on Justice League.

[suss2it]

Justice League paid homage to Superfriends many times, but never used The Riddler or Scarecrow, despite the presence of both on Superfriends. Does anyone think this may have been because of an embargo or the writers just couldn't think of anything for them to do? Those were two of my favourite characters from the Timmverse (well, the TNBA version of The Scarecrow). I would have loved to see them on Justice League.

The team was banned from using all Batman characters aside from Batman himself on Justice League Unlimited, so that people wouldn't get confused between that and The Batman.

[darkdetective]

The team was banned from using all Batman characters aside from Batman himself on Justice League Unlimited, so that people wouldn't get confused between that and The Batman.
My goodness, they must think people are stupid.

[SSJBatman]

My goodness, they must think people are stupid.

Which is why the embargos are stupid in themselves. Give people's intelligence more credit than that. Because in that case, then Batman himself shouldn't have appeared in JLU because kids would be confused with him and the other Batman on The Batman.. :T

[matthewscott614]

Could have had him beam down with Blue Devil or something.


You never saw the Plastic Man tv show? It was over 20 years ago now, but I'm pretty sure that I remember watching reruns of it on Nickelodeon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Plastic_Man_Comedy/Adventure_Show

Yeah it was some 70's greatness!
Michael Bell was Plastic Man.
Who later was Bruce Banner & Duke on the Sunbow toons.

Mod Note: Posts merged. There's no need for successive posts when ONE will do.

[Primal Slayer]

WB wont even let Smallville use WW or Batman, thus why they havent appeared. But so glad that the WW guest rights has basically been lifted. Now they just need to try to get a WW animated series up and running.

The Batgirl embargo sucked for JLU though since they couldnt do the BOP episode and had to change it up a little bit.

[swarlock]

My goodness, they must think people are stupid.

Just what I was going to say.

[TheVileOne]

Well the truth is that some people are stupid. But irregardless of that the embargoes still are stupid. So what if people are confused? How does the appearance of characters in different animated shows really hurt or affect one or the other?

This is really ridiculous considering that WB owns all these characters and they shouldn't limit creators in this way.