Toon Zone Talkback - "G.I. Joe: The Movie" - Bittersweet Sendoff for the Real American Heroes

[Ed Liu]

This is the talkback thread for "G.I. Joe: The Movie" - Bittersweet Sendoff for the Real American Heroes (http://www.toonzone.net/news/articles/34553/g.i.-joe-the-movie---bittersweet-sendoff-for-the-real-american-heroes).

http://www.toonzone.net/news/images/2010-07/GIJoeMovie/splash-gijoemovie.jpg

As something almost completely unrelated, Big Lob and Bazooka are both #14 on their jerseys. I wonder if there's any meaning to that.

Also wanted to remind Joe fans that there's a pre-release discussion thread for the new G.I. Joe: Renegades (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=271336) series on the General Animation forum. I know there's other Joe fans around here, but so far it's just me and TheVileOne on that thread.

[Zorak Masaki]

I wonder if Big Lob was supposed to originally be William Perry (he did have a joe figure around that time).

[ABrown]

With Shout! Factory's release of G.I.Joe:The Movie on dvd, it seemed like the perfect time to discuss the film itself. Truly one of my favorite animated films of all time. I think I'm a little less critical of the film than the older G.I.Joe fans are. I was about 6 years old when the film was released, so I was too young to question anything about the film at the time. I just accepted it for what it was. In 1987, some of the older G.I.Joe fans that were becoming "tweens" were understandably critical of the film for its differences from the series.

Many people feel that the opening sequence is the very best part of the film. I can definitely understand where they're coming from. The opening sequence is just awsome. This version of the theme song is superior to the theme from the series. And the action is just spectacular. What I don't agree with is that it's the only good part of the film. I greatly enjoyed the rest of the film as well.

I've read that some people felt that the film had too much of a "sci-fi" feel compared to the series. I can see where they're coming from, but I didn't think that it's was too much sci-fi for G.I.Joe. I thought that it was pretty cool that Cobra Commander turned out to be a member of an ancient race of snake people. I mean if you listen to Cobra Commander during the very first five part mini-series, he sounds like a snake man.

Some people were upset that the characters that were introduced in this movie got more screen time than the characters from the series. I can understand this as well. Flint was my favorite character from the series, and he didn't get hardly any screen time at all. Fortunately I did like a lot of the characters that were introduced, so it kinda made up for it. And I mean watch the scene towards the end of the movie where Cobra attacks the Joes and the "Rawhides" have to get the helicopter started, and tell me that's not an awsome scene.

Speaking of that scene, it's immediately followed by the scene were Duke "goes into a coma." I think it's a shame that there's not an unedited version of the movie out there where Duke actually does die as originally intended. Unfortunately though, with parents complaining about Optimus Prime being killed one year earlier, the creators were looking to avoid more upset parents.

And since I brought up the movie in which Optimus Prime dies, I think it's worth mentioning that this movie featured many similarities to Transformers:The Movie. Both movies featured Chris Latta's second in command character coming to a terrible fate. Both movies featured a new heroic character who unintentionally brings about the downfall of the good guy's leader (or at least Duke was the original leader). I know that there were others, I just can't think of any at the moment.

I do realize that part of my love for this movie is from nostalgia. But this is a movie that an adult can sit and watch and not feel that it's too cheesy. I really think that it was a good film. If this film was a part of your childhood, I definitely recommend picking up Shout! Factory's release of it. And it you haven't seen the film before, give it a try. Like I said, I loved it.

[Tobias]

This movie was a Thanksgiving tradition for me for several years when I was in was in high school. I may have to start doing that again.

I agree with the review. My major complaint was that most of the original crew had to taken off the board early on so the new characters could shine. I loved the climax at Cobra-La where every last Joe got to jump in and kick some fang, even if the final fight just came down two Rawhides and Slaughter.

On a related note to this movie, I always wondered what the Jem movie would have been like if that gotten made. They scrapped plans for a Jem feature film after Transformers and My Little Pony bombed.

[Kenny E. McCall]

This movie was a Thanksgiving tradition for me for several years when I was in was in high school. I may have to start doing that again.

I agree with the review. My major complaint was that most of the original crew had to taken off the board early on so the new characters could shine. I loved the climax at Cobra-La where every last Joe got to jump in and kick some fang, even if the final fight just came down two Rawhides and Slaughter.

On a related note to this movie, I always wondered what the Jem movie would have been like if that gotten made. They scrapped plans for a Jem feature film after Transformers and My Little Pony bombed.

I was wondering that as well. Maybe Cold Slither, the Dreadnok band from the G.I. Joe series could have been Eric Raymond's new band to challenge all three bands from the Jem series in that film.

[Mad Monkey 7]

Didn't Dic's season 3 follow the movie?

[Ed Liu]

Many people feel that the opening sequence is the very best part of the film. I can definitely understand where they're coming from. The opening sequence is just awsome. This version of the theme song is superior to the theme from the series. And the action is just spectacular. What I don't agree with is that it's the only good part of the film. I greatly enjoyed the rest of the film as well.

I thought that the opening scene was terrific, but there's also WAY too much going on in it. The cool thing about the TV show's opening (http://www.toonzone.net/blog/blogs/78/cartoon-intro-cavalcade-g.i.-joe-1985/) is that there's a lot going on, but it's still easy to follow what's going on at any given time. I'm impressed at the amount of stuff on-screen at one time in the movie's opening sequence (especially since it's pre-CGI and all that stuff had to be done by hand), but I find it too chaotic. There's lots of bits where I can't tell what's going on. Buzz Dixon also points out in the commentary that the whole fight is high action but makes no sense. (Why is Cobra attacking the Statue of Liberty? Why is it Cobra Commander setting the big bomb when that's never been something he'd do himself? How does Duke manage to get the bomb up to that giant carrier and away from the blast in 5 seconds?) Apparently, that whole thing was something Hasbro commissioned at the last minute and that he didn't know about until it was finished. He says he'd have given them something better if they had asked.

I'm also not as taken with the alternate theme song, other than the bit early on when the Joes first appear. The lyrics ask, "Who can turn the tide?" right before you get that two-note figure that leads into the lyrics singing, "G.I. Joe!" and Duke blowing Major Bludd's jetpack off. That little turnaround, which reinforces the same point visually, lyrically, and musically, is pure concentrated awesome right there.

FWIW, one trivia bit Dixon also mentions in the commentary is that Ron Friedman is credited as the writer, but that's apparently more contractual obligation. Not much of his original script remains in the final product.


I've read that some people felt that the film had too much of a "sci-fi" feel compared to the series. I can see where they're coming from, but I didn't think that it's was too much sci-fi for G.I.Joe.I don't think it's quite that it's "too" sci-fi, especially since the show was sci-fi starting with "The MASS Device" and on through episodes like "The Germ" and "Worlds Without End" and that one with the siren's shell. I think if anybody is objecting, it's that the episodes generally only pushed the one thing at a time. To pick on "The Germ," you just had to accept that there was a monstrous germ eating the landscape. After that, the Joes and Cobra are using the same tools they always do to combat the threat and each other. With the movie, you have to swallow not only Cobra-La and the conspiracy theory that it's driving all of Cobra (which is a whopper all by itself), the BET and its importance for Cobra-La's plans, the weird biomorphic "technology" they use to fight, and other stuff like the seemingly laser-proof Nemesis Enforcer. I think the movie pushes you to accept a lot more at once, and I think that's the root cause of the "too much sci-fi" objection.

Plus, that Cobra-La tech is freaky strange. I think that's a plus, personally, but that's just me.

As a side note, I also had a problem with how the Joes were taken so easily at the start of the movie by the Cobra-La guards, but that they could turn the tide so easily against the exact same Cobra-La guards at the end when they had less armament and a bunch of guys who had been prisoners for most of the movie and just gotten themselves free from that weird plant thing. I also don't believe for a second that Sgt. Slaughter could take down Nemesis Enforcer with anything short of a tank and an atomic bomb on his side. Certainly not bare-handed.


Didn't Dic's season 3 follow the movie?
Yes, but that was a completely different creative team than the Marvel/Sunbow series (and, from all accounts, was a lot worse). I never watched it, but my comment about it being the end of an era was really referring to the Marvel/Sunbow team.

[Zorak Masaki]

The DiC eps, bad as they were (the only ep i really enjoyed was the storm shadow-focused "shadow of a doubt") actually were in continuity with the sunbow series (CC being a snake in the beginning, falcon being duke's half-brother, the extensive enterprises building, mercer's cobra past being referred to, etc). The only thing missing was flint and lady jaye's relationship.

[Ed Liu]

Found a big interview with Buzz Dixon about his career (http://alonefancryinginthewilderness.wordpress.com/2010/06/07/my-animated-conversation-with-buzz-dixon/), but with a good chunk dedicated to G.I. Joe the series and the movie. He recounts some of the same material as the commentary track, but also digs into some other stuff too, like the DIC series and more. Worth a read.

[ABrown]

I was checking out the Buzz Dixon commentary as well. Very interesting some of the points he brought up (of course NOTHING beats Bruce Timm commentary though). For instance he laid to rest any doubt over whether or not the creators had originally intended for Duke to be killed off.

He mentioned that Cobra-La was providing the funding for the Cobra organization. I kinda have a hard time with that one. (1) The Cobra-La society didn't have any type of currency/capital for Cobra Commander to use in the outside world since they weren't interacting with the outside world. And Cobra Commander claimed in the MASS mini-series that he had accumulated millions in stolen dollars. (2) I don't think that they were providing him with mililary type weapons since they were completely against technology, and it was established during the series that Destro was their main weapons supplier.

[Ed Liu]

He mentioned that Cobra-La was providing the funding for the Cobra organization. I kinda have a hard time with that one. (1) The Cobra-La society didn't have any type of currency/capital for Cobra Commander to use in the outside world since they weren't interacting with the outside world. And Cobra Commander claimed in the MASS mini-series that he had accumulated millions in stolen dollars. (2) I don't think that they were providing him with mililary type weapons since they were completely against technology, and it was established during the series that Destro was their main weapons supplier.
I have a much, much lower standard for plausibility when it comes to G.I. Joe. It fits the rules of their universe that there aren't as many rules. There's about a million impossible things that happen in every episode. Why make a fuss about this particular impossible thing, you know?

That being said, we only saw the barest hints of Cobra-La, so who knows what they were using to fund Cobra? However, if you put a gun to my head and told me to guess, I'd say natural resources from Cobra-La. It's not uranium or any radioactive mineral, or else they'd have skipped the complex schemes and just gone nuclear. It's probably not something esoteric like iron ore or coal because you can't make enough on that. So, I'd say they're either in precious metals (which could include diamonds) or oil, and I can totally believe that Cobra was in the oil business. In the oil biz, nobody would really notice or be offended by the fact that they're doing business with greedy, rapacious, disgusting, unscrupulous reptilian/insectoid beasts determined to rule the world.

I'm pretty sure the oil company types wouldn't have a problem working with the Cobra-La creatures, either. :p

[Beat]

Found a big interview with Buzz Dixon about his career (http://alonefancryinginthewilderness.wordpress.com/2010/06/07/my-animated-conversation-with-buzz-dixon/), but with a good chunk dedicated to G.I. Joe the series and the movie. He recounts some of the same material as the commentary track, but also digs into some other stuff too, like the DIC series and more. Worth a read.

If he had been able to get away with his idea for the My Little Pony movie, it would have been epically hilarious.

Cobra-La, and the movie...yeah. I've always been a big proponent of the comic continuity and while realizing it will probably never happen, believe the original comic book deserves a big faithful adaptation the way so many manga get. Cobra-La was the final nail in the coffin for that. Serpentor in the cartoon was a whiny, spoiled brat given power by some previously unseen force that is completely out of place in the Joe universe and makes Cobra Commander look even more incompetent. In the comic, you can understand how Cobra Commander came to power, and that Serpentor being a sneaky, manipulative jerk with the memories of great leaders, would know how to lead his troops and inspire them. Cobra-La would be a fun set of villains on any other show EXCEPT GI Joe. If you told me MASK or Pole Position was fighting these alien reptiles, I would buy it without a second thought. The Joes? Not so much.

Now that IDW has essentially scrapped all the other continuities and released GI Joe #156, picking up right where Marvel left off, I can't help but wonder if now would be a good time for that adaptation. We could get Madhouse to do it, it would be tons of fun!:D

And the less said about the DIC series, the better.

[ABrown]

who knows what they were using to fund Cobra? However, if you put a gun to my head and told me to guess, I'd say natural resources from Cobra-La.

So, I'd say they're either in precious metals (which could include diamonds)

Now that I think about it, there was that huge gem that Pythona showed Zartan.

[Ioz]

I could have done without Cobra-La and them being the driving force behind Cobra. “The Most Dangerous Man In The World” would have been better.

The DVD menu glitch is annoying, but it plays ok once I do the trick.

[Jon T]

FWIW, one trivia bit Dixon also mentions in the commentary is that Ron Friedman is credited as the writer, but that's apparently more contractual obligation. Not much of his original script remains in the final product.

This was more or less exactly the same situation with Transformers: The Movie, whose final script was written by Flint Dille, who got an eventual "Story Consultant" credit on the final film. Ron Friedman still got the sole writing credit however. Friedman obviously negotiated a good deal on both pictures, although somewhat fittingly, Dille's credit is shown before Friedman's on Transformers.

[sparkykandy]

Just got my blu-ray in the mail today and ended watching the movie for the very first time. I must say that I liked it. I liked how the plot was not all over the place like it was with the Transformers movie and was coherent and easy to follow. I also liked all the Joe cameo appearances. Also, there were a few scenes I liked tremendously. The movie's epic opening for starters, even if it made no sense. Also, there were the scenes with Beach Head and the new recruits; I believe it was Beach Head's reactions that made those scenes for me. Also, it was nice to see Cobra Commander screwing over Serpentor near the end of the movie. Cobra Commander may have been horribly mutated into a snake and never got his chance to depose of Serpentor liked he wanted, but at least Cobra's last appearance did have him screwing Serpentor over.

However, I do have a few complaints. I felt that the movie felt kind of rushed at parts and that the pacing went on pretty quick. For example, the part where Lt. Falcon is doing training with the Renegades. I just felt that he went from screw-up to competent soldier far too quickly for my tastes. I felt that a montage during that part would have helped. Also, there's, of course, Duke's coma. The whole coma thing made his sacrifice (of sorts) a whole lot less effective and a bit silly at parts. It would been kind of nice if those silly coma lines were edited out of the movie, but eh.

[kow626]

wow sparkykandy, you just watched this for the first time? man...better late than never. i've seen this movie countless times and can easily watch it countless more times. it's one of my favorite flicks EVER! it's the one and the only movie that my entire family watched TOGETHER when i was young so it does have significance for me other than being a great watch. i love everything about it. i accept it for what it is: cartoon fantasy, and it does its job well. i'm still waiting for proper toys for golobulus and nemesis enforcer. you could even add serpentor, pythona, and cobra-la soldiers to that mix.

the intro is one of the best ever in animated and even live-action movie history. very well animated and choreographed. and we all know that theme song by heart, especially that movie version. golobulus is one of my favorite movie villains of all time. nowadays i don't like how the good guys win everything all the time and now that i'm 35, i could apply that to this movie too. but it's still extremely well done, still relevant, still better than most american animation that's came along since it came out. how ed can say this isn't a great movie is beyond me. most american animated movies these days are family oriented and comedic. it'd be nice to go back to the days when animation on these shores had a bit more of an edge and wasn't watered down. to get that fix, we gotta watch anime. new shows that do come along that have that edge don't last but a season or not much more than that. it's pretty pathetic.

i'd recommend this movie to ANYONE that's a joe fan and even the regular series still holds up all these decades later.

[Ed Liu]

how ed can say this isn't a great movie is beyond me. most american animated movies these days are family oriented and comedic. it'd be nice to go back to the days when animation on these shores had a bit more of an edge and wasn't watered down.

You did read the fourth and fifth paragraphs of the review, where I spell out exactly why I don't think the movie is as good as the TV show, right? If you don't agree with my criticisms, that's cool, but I did spell out exactly why I don't think the movie is great. I think the cast is cumbersome, which bogs down the movie with exposition and introductions, and the new additions have a disturbingly high number of losers, especially the ostensible lead Lt. Falcon. The fact that the movie spends so much time on a turkey like him while the many cooler veteran Joes are cooling their heels just makes me nuts.

Even as a fan, though, G.I. Joe is an endearingly bad show that made a mostly endearingly bad movie. I'd lump it in with stuff like Big Trouble in Little China or The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai as stuff that totally breaks the bad barrier, punching right through it to come out on the other side and be cool again. They made an enjoyable movie that I like (but don't love the way I can totally dig some of the episodes), but I can't in all honesty say it was a good one.

I would also say that G.I. Joe had many things, but an "edge" was never really one of them. Or, maybe, that edge was infrequent and inconsistently applied. Maybe it was because I grew up with stuff like Star Blazers, where people didn't eject out of their planes in time and nobody "fell into a coma" that they arose from via a magic voice-over. Even as a kid, we all recognized that G.I. Joe was almost completely toothless and carefully sanitized for our protection. It had moments of surprising poignancy, like in "Memories of Mara" or the episode with the ghost warriors, but I would never call it "edgy." I'd also point to the many DC and Marvel DTVs rated PG-13 (plus the under-recognized Hellboy Animated movies) and say that we don't have to go "back" to the days when domestic animation had teeth because we're already there and they go a whole lot farther than the classic G.I. Joe could ever have dreamed of going.

[ABrown]

I would also say that G.I. Joe had many things, but an "edge" was never really one of them. Or, maybe, that edge was infrequent and inconsistently applied. Maybe it was because I grew up with stuff like Star Blazers, where people didn't eject out of their planes in time and nobody "fell into a coma" that they arose from via a magic voice-over.

I have a hard time faulting the creators for having to edit Duke's fate. It was never supposed to happen the way that it did. Even without listening to the commentary on Shout's dvd, it was clear what the intended outcome originally was. And hey, who knows. Maybe Duke did reawaken only to end up dying from literally no longer having a heart any more. So even with the magic voice over, maybe Duke did end up dying regardless. But had he died on screen as originally intended, then yes, I'd say that G.I.Joe:The Movie as well as Transformers:The Movie were both "edgy" for their time.

[Ed Liu]

I have a hard time faulting the creators for having to edit Duke's fate. It was never supposed to happen the way that it did. Even without listening to the commentary on Shout's dvd, it was clear what the intended outcome originally was. And hey, who knows. Maybe Duke did reawaken only to end up dying from literally no longer having a heart any more. So even with the magic voice over, maybe Duke did end up dying regardless. But had he died on screen as originally intended, then yes, I'd say that G.I.Joe:The Movie as well as Transformers:The Movie were both "edgy" for their time.
I don't blame the creative staff for stuff like the death of Duke, either, but that's not what I'm talking about. Other than these two high-profile deaths, neither Transformers or G.I. Joe ever had much of an edge. Buzz Dixon has stated that he tried as much as possible to show that there were consequences to the violence on G.I. Joe by having people getting seriously hurt, and Transformers artfully got around that sometimes because they could do stuff to robots that they could never ever get away with on people, but even given those things, I feel like both still presented violence as a largely sanitized affair (and I recall that none of us who were watching it were fooled for a second). I don't deny that they were probably "edgy" in relative terms compared to a lot of their contemporaries, but to me it's the edge of a butter knife as compared to a chunk of cardboard shaped like a knife. Yes, it's sharper, but not by a whole lot.

[supergirl's pal]

I watched this in its entirety for the first time recently when I came across a copy at the library where I work. I still believe the whole Cobra-La concept is silly, but tolerable when you remember that GI Joe is in a universe where skilled marksman can't hit anybody and people parachute out of helicopters just before the missiles blow them out of the sky. :p

The opening sequence at the Statue of Liberty was originally intended for the big screen. Unfortunately when the movie became a direct to video feature, that scene lost some of its power on TV. Still love the song though...

I really liked Sgt. Slaughter in this movie, particularly his wrestling bit (THIS IS FOR....!) with Nemesis Enforcer near the end. Law & Order's line about being "Shot down by a salad" is one of the best lines in the movie. Too bad Shipwreck didn't get more than one line in the whole movie.

Buzz Dixon's commentary was a hoot! If people only watch the movie once, they should do it with the commentary track on. :D My favorite was when he said that he would have gladly written a movie about Shipwreck on shore leave in Tijuana. Lets hope IDW will give Dixon the opportunity to write that in one their GI Joe comics!

One thing he said on the commentary still puzzles me. He that during WWII, patrols on deep recon missions would not take their weapons with them so they would not be tempted to fight and reveal how far they penetrated into enemy territory. I have yet to find anything that verifies that, not to say that it isn't true, but I wish Dixon was more specific so one could find out more about that.

Overall an enjoyable movie despite its flaws. Too bad they never released a soundtrack with all the background music included.

[Tobias]

Buzz Dixon's commentary was a hoot! If people only watch the movie once, they should do it with the commentary track on. :D My favorite was when he said that he would have gladly written a movie about Shipwreck on shore leave in Tijuana. Lets hope IDW will give Dixon the opportunity to write that in one their GI Joe comics!

.

That would be a great way to do his abandoned storyline for the My Little Pony movie where (was it Northstar?) comes looking for help from the Smooze and meets Shipwreck.