NBA 2010 Off-Season Thread

[dtemplar]

Doc Rivers is going to return to coach the Celtics, and Phil Jackson will return to coach the Lakers.

So Lakers fans and Celtics fans, relax.


PENGUIN: Split and converted to off-season thread.

[Wonderwall]

Doc Rivers is going to return to coach the Celtics, and Phil Jackson will return to coach the Lakers.

So Lakers fans and Celtics fans, relax.

I think Laker fans can relax but Celtic fans should still be apprehensive as there are still questions. What are they going to do with Allen, will Pierce leave as he is testing free agency, and are they too old for one more run and if so who do they get and for what. Rivers staying is a good start.

[BonyT]

Yep, I agree--look for The Champs to do little more than tweak. Expect Fisher to be re-signed to a short-term deal; there's a chance Brown will be brought back as well. Crittenton has a shot if he has a good summer league. The Lakers will look at Blake, Raja Bell, even TMac--but won't look to spend much, so they can certainly be outbid if any of those guys isn't of a mind to put the chance at a ring over a pay day. The Lakers will also want to get a feel for Devin Ebanks and Derrick Caracter before they rush into making bench additions. Some say Odom is on the block, but that seems unlikely to me, with Jackson returning; Phil loves Lamar's versatility--and that's not easily replaced, so it would take real talent value coming back. And there's still some noise about Bosh, but the Lakers winning the back-to-back titles with this current group, even injury-hobbled as they were, makes that an extremely long shot (not to mention that Bynum's injury history makes him a less attractive trade piece than he once was anyway).

EDIT: Well this one takes me by surprise if true: Jeff Goodman of Fox Sports is claiming that the Lakers have offered Mike Miller a 5 year/$30 million deal--with a deadline of midnight tonight:
http://twitter.com/goodmanonfox

7/3 EDIT: So much for Goodman's Miller story:
http://www.nba.com/news/features/aldridge.2010.freeagency//?ls=iref:nbahpt1#Miller

The Lakers have actually found their man in Steve Blake, from across the hall @ Staples:
http://www.nba.com/news/features/aldridge.2010.freeagency//?ls=iref:nbahpt1#Blake
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakers-derek-fisher-20100703,0,4347278.story

That makes more sense: Blake is a good defender, in line with the Lakers' current philosophy (which I love) of defense as the cornerstone for championship greatness. He's a pass-first guy, not flashy but rock-solid, with a good 3 when he gets his feet set, which is a real zone-buster that the Lakers can use--exactly the guy the Lakers needed IMO. He'll be a solid backup who'll get a lot of time spelling Fisher, or can replace him in case the soon-36-year-old DFish leaves. (I still think Derek will be back.) One problem I do see re: Blake though is that he's not a speed guy; they need somebody (besides Kobe) to put on the little waterbug 1's, and that ain't Blake; but there's no doubt he's a defensive upgrade. The deal is reportedly 4 years/$16 mill, leaving some of the MLE for other possible tweaks (which a Miller deal wouldn't have done, apart from a S&T).

Blake was doubtless their first choice all along, although reports also say that the Lakers & Ridnour had agreed on the basics of a 4 year/$12 mill deal, pending Blake's answer of course.

[Tommy Lawson]

LeBron James will announce where he's going on Thursday on ESPN in an hour-long special at 9:00 pm ET/6:00 pm PT (http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Baseline/entry/view/70684/lebron_james_to_announce_destination_thursday), which to me is ironic, because TNT, which also broadcasts NBA games, uses the slogan "We know drama" and this is definitely a dramatic moment for a bunch of NBA teams.

[Space Cadet]

Now I know that LeBron is suppose to make his decision in the first ten minutes of the program, but since he's got an hour to kill, he should pad this out as much as possible. Save the decision for the last ten minutes and do other things for the previous 50 minutes. Maybe have Jay Leno come in and do a monologue and interview for ten minutes with LeBron. Have musical guests(they could play the song "Forever" that was on the soundtrack to his documentary) to fill out time. A retrospective from his high school playing days to now is a must. Celebrity reactions should be included. I read somewhere that they could mimic what high school athletes do when they're choosing a big time university and put down hats of the four teams still in contention. Then LeBron can choose the team he wants to go to by wearing the hat of choice.

Yes, it's overkill. But if you're going to do a one hour special anyway, might as well pull out all the stops.

[Taekmkm]

Your post confused me. He should pad out his decision, even though he is mandated to tell who he's playing for in the first 10 minutes?

[Space Cadet]

Your post confused me. He should pad out his decision, even though he is mandated to tell who he's playing for in the first 10 minutes?

I was being sarcastic. Something that could take 30 seconds to say is being stretched out for an hour. I was suggesting sarcastically that since he has an hour to play with, why doesn't he pull out all the stops and make it memorable.

Anyway, from what I hear, LeBron will make his decision and ESPN commentators will interview him about his decision.

[bigddan11]

I can honestly say I'm disgusted by the coverage ESPN and TNT are giving to LeBron. Seriously, he's a former MVP, but so is Dirk Nowitzki, who was also a free agent this year. You didn't give him an hour to declare where he is going. LeBron is one of the highest paid players in the game, but so is Kobe, and last time I checked when Kobe was a free agent and rtanked #1 or #2 in every poll you didn't give an hour to him to declare where he is going. This is completely ludicrous. He is a single player and this is only a game. Who cares where LeBron ends up. If he ends up in Miami good for him. Let him be the little engine that never could until he was loaded up with other NBA stars around him. Let him be the player that abandoned his home town and home team solely for money despite them trying to sign better players to keep him there. The entire LeBron saga disgusts me. I won't be watching it. Heck, I'd rather be watching a replay of a scoreless soccer game over LeBron and his merry men Part Infinity.

[Taekmkm]

Kobe isn't a free agent. Dirk was never a thinkable free agent because Mark Cuban will never let him go. The top 6 free agents, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Boozer, Amar, Lee that were available are all but signed by his announcement. Where Lebron goes does affect the balance of power. If he goes to Chicago, they are an instant contender for the NBA Finals. If he signs with the Heat, they become a more powerful team with loads of cheap veterans hoping to win a ring. If he stays in Cleaveland, all the other teams desperately snatch up any decent free agent at higher prices than they usually would. Same if he goes to New York.

Yes, it's egotistical somewhat to have a press conference just to announce where he's going, but to say it doesn't matter where he goes is extremely naive.


Let him be the player that abandoned his home town and home team solely for money despite them trying to sign better players to keep him there.

What? Staying in Cleaveland gets him 30 extra million dollars that no other team literally cannot offer.

[dmxx116]

I'll be upset if Lebron James if he don't come to the Knicks, And as a Knicks I wait two years for this to get Lebron James on my team. Pat Riley and the Heat screw us Knicks fans again like they did 15 years ago.

[TheAmazingJJJ]

I can honestly say I'm disgusted by the coverage ESPN and TNT are giving to LeBron. ... This is completely ludicrous. He is a single player and this is only a game. Who cares where LeBron ends up. If he ends up in Miami good for him. Let him be the little engine that never could until he was loaded up with other NBA stars around him. Let him be the player that abandoned his home town and home team solely for money despite them trying to sign better players to keep him there. The entire LeBron saga disgusts me. I won't be watching it. Heck, I'd rather be watching a replay of a scoreless soccer game over LeBron and his merry men Part Infinity. THIS.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/JJJ-01-19-72/clap.gif

[bigddan11]

Kobe isn't a free agent. Dirk was never a thinkable free agent because Mark Cuban will never let him go. The top 6 free agents, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Boozer, Amar, Lee that were available are all but signed by his announcement. Where Lebron goes does affect the balance of power. If he goes to Chicago, they are an instant contender for the NBA Finals. If he signs with the Heat, they become a more powerful team with loads of cheap veterans hoping to win a ring. If he stays in Cleaveland, all the other teams desperately snatch up any decent free agent at higher prices than they usually would. Same if he goes to New York.
First off, why don't you actually read my post fully before trying to correct me on things you are wrong on. I never said Kobe was a free agent this year, but considering he has been just as valuable as LeBron if not more so, then this treatment of giving LeBron an hour to announce where he is going is nothing but BS. No star deserves more TV time than any other. They are a single player. If you're going to give one player an hour to announce where they are going and interview them, then you should do so for each player regardless of where or when they signed, especially when someone like Kobe has produced more overall.



What? Staying in Cleaveland gets him 30 extra million dollars that no other team literally cannot offer.Why don't you actually research facts before posting something so false. Last time I checked New York, Miami, Los Angeles, Boston, Dallas, and many other sites had better TV contracts, larger arenas, and more sponsors to choose from than Cleveland. Having more sponsors means more sponsorships which equals more money, PERIOD. Also, you have to factor in a little something called state taxes. There are states, like Texas and Florida, where they don't have state taxes, meaning you get to keep more of your money. Larger arenas allow more fans to attend, meaning you can also pay your players more. Frankly any team could offer a buttload of cash that'd be more than $30 million if they didn't want to pay the other NBA teams a fee for going over a certain amount.

Truthfully though this is LeBron just being a big baby. He intentionally held of on announcing where he'd sign so teams would pay him to fly out and visit them. He intentionally held off until there was nothing going on, outside of baseball games, so he could get TV time. LeBron is acting like he has since high school, that of a big baby. We should just have Mama James have him in a highchair and feed him his favorite food while he does the interview, because all LeBron wants to do is think about himself. His entire ME, ME, ME attitude is why I currently hate him. I don't care who you are or how good you are, you're no better than anyone else, and you definitely shouldn't get to spend an hour of time that you reserve just so you can have most of America flocking at your feet. Think about what this time goes to- his sponsors. They get to show him off and potentially sale more merchandise allowing them to pay him more to continue endorsing their products. All LeBron is doing this for is himself, and it's completely disgusting.

[Lord Dalek]

Hiya Cleveland! Welcome back to 1994!

[Tommy Lawson]

LeBron James has picked the Miami Heat (http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Baseline/entry/view/70869/live_chat_lebron_james_decides_his_future). Will the trio of Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, and LeBron James work as well as Boston's Big Three did in 2007-2008 to win a title? Could it be Boston and Miami in the Eastern Conference Finals in 2011, or the Los Angeles Lakers versus the Miami Heat in the 2011 NBA Finals?

[dmxx116]

I hate you Pat Riley and the Heat for screw us Knicks fans again I hope the Lakers beat you in the finals for many years to come. Lebron James should be a New York Knick tonight.

[Space Cadet]

Hiya Cleveland! Welcome back to 1994!

Not surprisingly, some Cleveland fans are burning his jersey in the streets.

[BigLouMan20]

To me, those fans buring his jersey are jerks. He busted his butt for seven years and didn't get enough help from his team. He was pretty much the go to person on most plays. It'll be an interesting 2010-2011 season.

[Zen Man]

Not surprisingly, some Cleveland fans are burning his jersey in the streets.


Yeah that was wild. Poor Cleveland just got it's heart ripped out and stomped on. :(

[hobbyfan]

Pathetic. LeBron James has succumbed to the disease of me. He has an inner circle full of leeches and parasites who think it's more important for him to get the most money available, not so much for himself, but for the nothing happening jabronies hanging on because they want to do nothing more than leech off his success.

LeBron's rep will take hit after hit after hit from now on, because there's no guarantee he'll get the brass ring in Miami right away.

[krazymed]

I can honestly say I'm disgusted by the coverage ESPN and TNT are giving to LeBron.

By far, ESPN has been the worst culprit for the last two years. Jim Gray basically admitted to Dan Patrick this morning that the whole thing was planned since Game 2 of the Finals. I've constantly made fun of how ESPN/ABC has hyped Kobe vs. LeBron for two years, with LeBron failing in an embarrassing fashion while Kobe went on to win the whole thing twice. I don't think TNT has even cared (or if they do, it won't be until the season starts). Agree with everything else you said, though.

As for the money, Florida has no sales tax, so in a six-year deal, LeBron James would make more money with a max contract in Miami than with a max deal in Cleveland (even with Cleveland being able to offer more) when the salaries are adjusted for taxes.

The owner of the Cavs, Dan Gilbert, immediately posted this very scathing response to whole situation - http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5365704. This quote may very well be my sig.


"I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE THAT THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS WILL WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE SELF-TITLED FORMER 'KING' WINS ONE" Can't really take much stock in a guy who let his superstar walk to Miami, and fired his GM and Coach of the Year after taking the Cavs to the best record in the league for the last two years, but we'll see what he's got.

[Blueranger]

I hate you Pat Riley and the Heat for screw us Knicks fans again I hope the Lakers beat you in the finals for many years to come. Lebron James should be a New York Knick tonight.
It's not all that bad.

We still have a stacked roster now due to the D-Lee deal. Once we can get Melo or Paul to commit next year, we are a legit championship team.

[dmxx116]

The Heat make me more sick, But Heat get their shooter with Mike Miller for 5 year $30 million. Surprised they gave him that much though considering the cap.

[Grave]

To me, those fans buring his jersey are jerks. He busted his butt for seven years and didn't get enough help from his team. He was pretty much the go to person on most plays. It'll be an interesting 2010-2011 season.

This, but I don't really blame them. Going on tv to announce that you are going to another team really is a shot to the face. Should've backed out of that broadcast, but "shrugs" Personally, I didn't/don't care where LeBron was gonna go but seeing him go to Miami will probably have me rooting for them this season, although I do like the sound of him going to Chicago a little more.. That line-up just sounded entirely too good. Oh well, ought to be an interesting season though.

It does kind of make me wonder if what I've been hearing about problems with the team itself are true... A while ago, like right after Cleveland was eliminated, my god-brother said something about LeBron's mother and a teammate were caught kissing or something... "shrugs"

[bigddan11]

As for the money, Florida has no sales tax, so in a six-year deal, LeBron James would make more money with a max contract in Miami than with a max deal in Cleveland (even with Cleveland being able to offer more) when the salaries are adjusted for taxes.
Yeah, I did mention that the $30 or $60 million more he would supposedly get in Cleveland was wrong when you added in marketing and state taxes. I did mention both Texas and Florida as being states with no state taxes, meaning you got to keep more of your money, but thanks for backing me up on that.

Personally, like I said before, I don't care that LeBron has ended up in Miami. He has shown that all he cares about is winning a championship, meaning he's focusing on himself. He has shown he only wants to play on teams that have big stars so he can win and boost his ego. In the end I wouldn't be surprised to see it backfire on the Heat. Almost every team that has had three big stars in the starting lineup at the same time has had ego problems in the long run, and those ego problems tend to cost them games and most of the time the championship. Yes, the Celtics are one of teh few teams that have survived with a big 3 intact, but most teams need two big stars and then a bunch of supporting cast to be successful because three big stars tends to have the three end up fighting amongst themselves for control. Also, until the Heat get someone who can actually distribute evenly between there three new stars, then they will always have complaints about time control or one player getting the ball more often than the others.

[bleachj0j]

. A while ago, like right after Cleveland was eliminated, my god-brother said something about LeBron's mother and a teammate were caught kissing or something... "shrugs"

I heard about that too in school, someone told me it was Delonte West

[Zilch]

I'm more shocked at Dan Gilbert's letter than James' decision. Does he honestly believe the Cavs will win a title before the Heat? Heck, does he really think Cleveland will make it to the semi-finals without LeBron with their current lineup? :sweat:

All eyes will be on the Eastern Conference next season. With Boston getting old, Miami will be the team to beat in the East.

[Taekmkm]

The West got really boring compared to the East now. Suddenly the Bulls no longer can chip away like the last 2 years for the playoffs. Hopefully Rose's improved skill and Boozer can snag some of the ring chasers off of Miami.

[dtemplar]

The guy who owns the Cavs is also the owner of Fathead, and they have LeBron James fatheads for $17.41.

The reason why it's priced $17.41 is because Benedict Arnold was born that year.

[The Penguin]

The guy who owns the Cavs is also the owner of Fathead, and they have LeBron James fatheads for $17.41.

The reason why it's priced $17.41 is because Benedict Arnold was born that year."LeBron James turned his back on his hometown and we're passing the savings on TO YOU!!!" :p

While outdated, that is a tremendous deal, two of the three are sold out (http://www.fathead.com/search-results/lebron-james/) as I post this. We know the guy is angry, but for comparison, the NY Jets Brett Favre (http://www.fathead.com/nfl/new-york-jets/brett-favre/) is still full price at $99.99.

[Tay the Cat]

The guy who owns the Cavs is also the owner of Fathead, and they have LeBron James fatheads for $17.41.

The reason why it's priced $17.41 is because Benedict Arnold was born that year.
He's also the owner of Quicken Loans, which is probably not the best of companies to be running during these times.

[Taekmkm]

The Eastern Conference has now become an arms race, as the Heat are abusing the cap limitations with MLE's, while the Bulls get as many low-tier A/High-tier B rank players in their increasingly solid team. Meanwhile, a breakdown on the Knicks prove they've actually become so much more effective despite their only big splash in Amare.

Meanwhile, the Western conference is either sticking to their teams or making the usual (bad) deals they're (in)famous for.

[BonyT]

The Eastern Conference has now become an arms race, as the Heat are abusing the cap limitations with MLE'sActually (if it did apply to Miami) that would be MLE, singular: There are several kinds of exceptions defined by the CBA, but each team only gets one mid-level exception (although it can be divided & spent on multiple players), if they get any at all--and Miami doesn't have one. They renounced it to get under the salary cap. (As the name implies, the MLE is an exception allowed for teams over the cap.) Instead, Bosh, Bron and Wade all took less than max to leave enough cap room for Haslem and Mike Miller, both of whom also sacrificed $ to make it work.


Lebron James crossed the entire journey from being the most beloved/almost worshiped person in Ohio to being its most bitterly reviled all in the space of about 1 second by uttering the words, "I'm taking my talents to South Beach." But that makes me curious about something--So a question for all you Bulls fans: Your team's Plan A--and B--in clearing cap space for this summer was to bring hometown boy Wade into the fold along with another biggie (ideally Bron). Now don't get me wrong--you've still done (and are doing) very well for yourselves this summer; but let's be honest: If DWade shows the hometown spirit, then the EC is undisputably, absolutely YOURS to lose. Instead, Wade never really even gives a serious sniff to Chitown, the Miami fix having obviously been in for quite some time between he, Bron and Bosh, and the Bulls are left as still as one of the big teams in the mix in the East...but only one of them--and frankly not the one most folks (right or wrong) are projecting to be at the tippy-top of that mix. So, do you guys feel any resentment against Wade for denying home and robbing your team of undisputed supremacy?

[krazymed]

I have no problem with Wade staying in Miami. Chicago had a chance to get him legit, but blew it because they waited too long, were cheap (only got Boozer, not Bosh or James) and did not have a good coach in place (Heat have a safety net in that Riley could take over any time).

Besides, can't really trust an owner that let Pippen, Jordan, and Jackson walk away after winning six titles, then have Tim Floyd and Vinny del Negro as the successors.

Riley's not getting enough credit. Getting the best three players of free agency to play in Miami was genius. No tax, hot women, great weather, great beaches. If I were an NBA-caliber player, I'd play there for room and board.

[Taekmkm]

I have no problem with Wade staying in Miami. Chicago had a chance to get him legit, but blew it because they waited too long, were cheap (only got Boozer, not Bosh or James) and did not have a good coach in place (Heat have a safety net in that Riley could take over any time).

Besides, can't really trust an owner that let Pippen, Jordan, and Jackson walk away after winning six titles, then have Tim Floyd and Vinny del Negro as the successors.

That post is wrong on so many levels.

Seriously.

Jordon retired. You can't do anything with a retiring player on your end. Pippen actually stayed a while after the dynasty, while Jackson was set on the next best team in the Lakers.

Bulls were not "cheap" in getting Boozer. They had no chance, like everyone else, to get Bosch. Wade and Bosch were staying in Miami no matter what, which basically forced Lebron in Miami, too. If anything, Chicago is making the best choices and picks in the off-season compared to most teams.

[BonyT]

Riley's not getting enough credit. Getting the best three players of free agency to play in Miami was genius. No tax, hot women, great weather, great beaches. If I were an NBA-caliber player, I'd play there for room and board.That...is an outstanding point. Yeah, I think I'd be right there in that lineup with you--warming the bench or whatever--wouldn't even care.

[krazymed]

That post is wrong on so many levels.

Seriously.

Jordon retired. You can't do anything with a retiring player on your end. Pippen actually stayed a while after the dynasty, while Jackson was set on the next best team in the Lakers.

Bulls were not "cheap" in getting Boozer. They had no chance, like everyone else, to get Bosch. Wade and Bosch were staying in Miami no matter what, which basically forced Lebron in Miami, too. If anything, Chicago is making the best choices and picks in the off-season compared to most teams.

The Bulls chose not to give Phil Jackson a new contract. They let him walk because they did not want him back. Jackson took a break, then took the Lakers job.

They gave Pippen away in a sign-and-trade to Houston in the lockout year, he never got the chance to stay.

Jordan left because they would not offer him a high-end league position (similar to the ones the Lakers gave Magic Johnson after he gave them five rings), and when he "retired" (because he did come back, again), it was with the knowledge that Phil and Pippen were not coming back. They had a chance to keep all three for a couple more years, and chose not to. They paid for it dearly. The people in LeBron James' ear know this.

Not saying the Bulls have a bad team. A defensive-minded coach, a somewhat good player in Boozer, and a pretty young core, they can make the playoffs in the East. But after that epic seven game series with Boston, they let their best scorer at the time, Ben Gordon, go to the Pistons. Soon after that, their second-best player, John Salmons, was traded to the Bucks and put up good numbers. It's not an organization that inspires stability, even when they are successful.

Neither is a team that only won 15 games after winning the title and having it's second-best player quit during the season. But in Miami, there are plenty of distractions to dull the pain (hot women, no taxes, warm beaches).

[ABrown]

It is really good to see that at least Michael Jordan has sportsmanship (not that it was ever in question for him anyway)..........

"Jordan questions LeBron's move to Miami"

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/michael-jordan-questions-lebron-james-move-to-miami-071910?GT1=39002

[bleachj0j]

It is really good to see that at least Michael Jordan has sportsmanship (not that it was ever in question for him anyway)..........

"Jordan questions LeBron's move to Miami"

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/michael-jordan-questions-lebron-james-move-to-miami-071910?GT1=39002

Interesting from his point of view. I can understand it, he thought our other great players as rivals and not people he would play with. It sounded lke he was trying to hold back, trying not to sound like he were bashing them.

[BonyT]

Interesting from his point of view. I can understand it, he thought our other great players as rivals and not people he would play with. It sounded lke he was trying to hold back, trying not to sound like he were bashing them.He was holding back trying not to sound quite so much like he was bashing Bron. But his meaning came through loud and clear nonetheless. From the ESPN article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

Michael Jordan, implicitly questioning Bron's competitive spirit:
Michael Jordan raises a bigger issue in criticism of LeBron James and Miami's trio, writes TrueHoop's Henry Abbott.

So what does Jordan, one of the best-ever in the NBA, think of LeBron James (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966) joining with All-Stars Dwyane Wade (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1987) and Chris Bosh (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977) to form a super team in Miami?

"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,' " Jordan said after playing in a celebrity golf tournament in Nevada. The interview aired on the NBC telecast of the event. "But that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."And what Jordan implies, Barkley, characteristically, just comes right out and says:
TNT analyst Charles Barkley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=37) said James' decision may change his legacy.

"He'll never be Jordan," Barkley told 790 the Ticket in Miami earlier in the week. "This clearly takes him out of the conversation. He can win as much as he wants to.

"There would have been something honorable about staying in Cleveland and trying to win it as 'The Man' ... LeBron, if he would've in Cleveland, and if he could've got a championship there, it would have been over the top for his legacy, just one in Cleveland. No matter how many he wins in Miami, it clearly is Dwyane Wade's team."So the men among whom James most longs to be considered a peer have rendered the judgment that LeBron's just not cut out of the same cloth they are. Harsh.

[ABrown]

So the men among whom James most longs to be considered a peer have rendered the judgment that LeBron's just not cut out of the same cloth they are. Harsh.

Well, Lebron's got no one to blame but himself. It was his decision to do this.

[BonyT]

Well, Lebron's got no one to blame but himself. It was his decision to do this.Yep, I agree. And frankly, I think MJ is probably exactly right: Bron just isn't cut from the same cloth as MJ, Magic, Larry, Kobe. And Barkley's right too: Bron has eliminated himself from the G.O.A.T. conversation.

[BonyT]

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=5402710

Well, it ain't Bron, DWade & Bosh, but in re-signing Fish & adding Blake & now Ratliff, The Champs have had a pretty decent off-season so far. They've added depth and defensive strength (in line with their now-defensive mentality) to the bench, helped themselves at the 1, and have increased the size advantage that served them so well the past two seasons--size being, at least so far, a real looming issue for the Heat, btw. And there's still a chance the Lakers add Barnes--although I think his clear plan is to play the Lakers for more $ from the Cavs.

Not to mention a nice draft--Ebanks and Caracter both look like real keepers. And 2nd rounders, yet.

EDIT: Oops--guess I spoke too soon on Barnes. About 20 minutes too soon. I always did have impeccable timing:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ApaLnIzEsxRlAuS9C83_Sd85nYcB?slug=ys-lakersbarnes072210

That's a really nice get for the Lakers, assuming YahooSports' Barnes story pans out. Even more defense and solid bench depth.

Bring back Coach Jackson -- check.
Solid draft -- check.
Re-sign Fisher -- check.
Address D @ the 1 -- check.
Address bigs' backups -- check.
Strengthen bench overall, particularly defensively -- check.

I'd say the Lakers are probably done for the summer, player-acquisition-wise, unless they do end up bringing back Shannon Brown as well.
Now down to the last two items on the off-season punch list: Get stars healthy, and enjoy championship.

Btw, re: Bron--TZ is a family site, so I'm not going to link this, but you might want to check "Take my talents to South Beach" on Urban Dictionary. Family-friendly? No. But kind of appropriate to LeBron's antics of late.

[dmxx116]

Jay-Z upset that newly minted Miami Heat player LeBron James didn't consult him:

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2010/07/28/2010-07-28_untitled__28lede2.html

[Toon Master]

Don't believe me? Here's a link to prove it all.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=5438003&campaign=rss&source=twitter&ex_cid=Twitter_espn_5438003

[KJ Styles]

Don't believe me? Here's a link to prove it all.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=5438003&campaign=rss&source=twitter&ex_cid=Twitter_espn_5438003

I'm a Bostonian and i'm not the least bit happy.

Why? You're gonna need a center to bang against the Lakers, Heat, Magic, and the like.

Shaq isn't what he used to be, but he's still good for blocking shots and grabbing rebounds which is what the Celtics need. Kendrick Perkins is gonna be sidelined until at least February of 2011 so they're gonna need someone reliable in the middle to bang. In my opinion, I think the Celts would have beaten the Lakers in the finals if Perk would have been available to play. They already have 4 guys (Pierce, KG, Allen, Rondo) who can score, all they need Shaq for is defense.

[cuzin34]

this is good news.

[Toon Master]

this is good news.

It took me a little while to think about it. But now i'm starting to think that it is good news to.

It's just sometimes hard to take this guy seriously when he's been in things like Kazaam. But you can't take a Basketball career and base it on a movie career to say if he is good or bad.

[Tohya]

Yep, I agree. And frankly, I think MJ is probably exactly right: Bron just isn't cut from the same cloth as MJ, Magic, Larry, Kobe. And Barkley's right too: Bron has eliminated himself from the G.O.A.T. conversation.Has he really? If Lebron averages a triple double and goes on to create a dynasty, history will put him into the G.O.A.T conversation. I mean in the end what exactly is that cloth? The only person who was cut from a special cloth was MJ. Magic? He came out of college early because he knew he was gonna get drafted by the Lakers. Bird? He couldnt hack it in Indiana with Bob Knight, so he went back to Indiana State. Kobe? Just three years ago he was crying for a trade and spewing hate towards the Lakers and his teammates. He gets Gasol gift-wrapped and all of a sudden the Lakers are a title team. Does that sound like guys cut from the specialist of cloths? So Lebron decides to go play with his friends...for him to be judged and looked down upon because of that is ridiculous.

Will he ever be considered "the man". No. Does that mean he cant be considered one of the greatest players to ever play? No.


Why? You're gonna need a center to bang against the Lakers, Heat, Magic, and the like.

Shaq isn't what he used to be, but he's still good for blocking shots and grabbing rebounds which is what the Celtics need. Kendrick Perkins is gonna be sidelined until at least February of 2011 so they're gonna need someone reliable in the middle to bang. In my opinion, I think the Celts would have beaten the Lakers in the finals if Perk would have been available to play. They already have 4 guys (Pierce, KG, Allen, Rondo) who can score, all they need Shaq for is defense.Yeah....Nash hated Shaq when they played together in Phoenix. How do you think the faster paced Rondo is gonna like having a slow moving blob clogging the middle. It didnt work in Phoenix, it was a complete bust in Cleveland, so I doubt (even just as six fouls and another body) its gonna work in Boston. I mean, considering the power shifts in the east, whos to say the C's even make it back to the conference finals, let alone the nba finals.

[Taekmkm]

The only person who was cut from a special cloth was MJ

Hardly. The Bulls would be a whole different story without Pippen.

[Tohya]

Hardly. The Bulls would be a whole different story without Pippen.True but not exactly exactly what I meant. MJ wasnt in the same situation as Magic, Bird, or Kobe. When Magic decided to offer his opinion on Lebron, it seemed ridiculous because Magic had Kareem and an assortment of HoF players. For him to say that about Lebron when he himself admitted that without Kareem he wouldnt had ever beat the Celtics, its really dumb on Magics part.

[BonyT]

Has he really? If Lebron averages a triple double and goes on to create a dynasty, history will put him into the G.O.A.T conversation. ...Will he ever be considered "the man". No. Does that mean he can't be considered one of the greatest players to ever play? No.The quote of yours that I bolded indicates that maybe you're misunderstanding the term a bit. In NBA talk, the "G.O.A.T." acronym normally designates a discussion not simply about guys who are "among the best ever to play," like the NBA's 50 All-time Greatest list or something, but rather specifically about guys who have earned at least some mention & consideration in the discussion about who is the single greatest player ever to lace 'em up. Scottie Pippen and Karl Malone are both on the NBA's 50 All-time Greatest list--but nobody would ever suggest that either might be *the* greatest player of all time. See the difference?

And one thing ALL of the guys who are actually in the G.O.A.T. conversation have in common is that they're all Alpha dogs--meaning not simply that they're willing to take the last shot or make the big play, but rather that they actually WANT that burden of the team's fate squarely on their own shoulders; they EMBRACE it--In other words, they WANT to be "the man," as you put it; and as you already stated, that just ain't Bron.

That's exactly what Barkley meant in that ESPN article when he said that Bron will now "never be MJ"--the clear leader in the G.O.A.T. race in most people's minds--because Bron abdicated his "man" status (a status he occasionally shunned even in Cleveland, where he really didn't have the luxury to do so) to go to a team where Wade is "the man." (As Barkley said, it'll always be Wade's team.)

And you mentioned Magic Johnson. Not many people know about it these days, but Magic once demanded a trade from the Lakers like Kobe did. Why? Because he knew who he was, knew that he was born to be the guy bearing the big burden for his team; and it just didn't sit right with him, because Kareem was that guy at that time for the Lakers. Of course it didn't sit well--Magic's an alpha. Just not his nature. But Jerry Buss and Jerry West (both also alphas) made Magic realize, Kareem's slowing down; soon we'll shift to things being keyed off of you. So Magic could live with that. (Mind you, Magic's a little different from most alphas like Jordan or Kobe in that his method of being "the man" involved a lot of assists, making plays for others--but it was always clear to everyone witnessing that Magic created the play, not the guy who got the hoop--and nobody could deny that, after 1984, the Lakers were clearly Magic's team, even though Kareem was still there.)

Same thing with Kobe. When he asked to be traded because the Lakers hadn't put enough complimentary pieces around him (the pieces having been brought in previously to compliment the now-departed Shaq, not Kobe), he wasn't looking to go somewhere that he'd be paired with some other alpha star--he had hated that about being with Shaq; no, his preferred destination was Chicago, where he'd be the alpha, but with better support. But Buss and Kupchak didn't panic; Buss has dealt with (and made his franchise great off of) alphas his whole NBA life--been there, done that. So as he had done with Magic, he let patience weather the storm, and brought in Gasol--a phenominal complimentary player, not a true alpha. Problem solved.

And that's the key difference between all those other guys' situations that you mentioned and LeBron's situation: Pippen, Gasol, older Kareem--they're all absolutely the ultimate sidekicks--but not guys who were going to challenge MJ's, Kobe's, Magic's alpha role. Bron abdicated his alpha role. He essentially became the sidekick---Again, just like Barkley said, it's Wade's team.

There's nothing inherently wrong with Bron choosing to be the ultimate sidekick. But if he won't be "the man," he can't be the G.O.A.T. either. You just can't get the Big Job if you won't accept shouldering the Big Responsibility that goes with it.

[dmxx116]

Isiah Thomas? They've gotta be kidding

The man who played a major role in destroying the Knicks is back as a consultant

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=powell_shaun&id=5443412

Why do Dolan love Thomas' ? Why? Everybody on this planet hate him, The man cost him 11.6 mil and never got to a playoff game his entire time here, and now he's a consultant. For what, how to lose and waste money? Dolan has no clue and should be FORCED to sell the Knicks. Like I said before and will continue to say,"As long as James Dolan owns the Kni...cks, they will NEVER win a Championship."

[BonyT]

Have you ever had a dream that was so stupid that you actually realized you were dreaming while you were still dreaming?

I have. I once dreamed that me and my entire family were peanuts. We were being carried in a peanut vendor's cart as he walked along a path in the Amazon jungle. He was dressed in that stereotypical peanut vendor striped coat and hat, and every now and then he would stop and put one of us by the side of the path, and then move on.

Even in the loose logic of dream world, I said to myself, "This is...incredibly ****ing stupid. I have GOT to be dreaming." And then it was weird, because the dream kept playing, but I was kind of pulled out of it, like I was watching it on a movie screen. Then I said, "I'm gonna make myself wake up." And I did.

I had that same feeling again just now when I read that the Knicks had re-hired Isaiah Thomas. I thought, "No way. It's GOTTA be a dream." But I couldn't make myself wake up.

So then I went to check the calendar in the kitchen.
Nope, I'm not wrong. It is August. April was 4 months ago.

So I guess this is real then. Except for Knicks fans. For them, it's a nightmare.

I never would've believed there was any way anybody in the Knicks organization would want to employ Isaiah Thomas again. But I guess you really never can say never.

NY fans...what can I say? You have my sympathies.

[dmxx116]

League Looking Into Isiah-Knicks Team Consultant Deal (http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/08/06/nba-looking-into-isiah-ny-deal/):

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/08/06/nba-looking-into-isiah-ny-deal/

[dmxx116]

Isiah Thomas Withdraw From Role as Consultant with New York Knicks:

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5456334

As a Knicks fan man I'm happy this deal didn't happened I don't want Man doing anything in the NBA ever again.

[ABrown]

This is hilarious. I don't feel the least bit sorry for Lebron.

"LeBron James puts up bricks at Cedar Point and gets heckled"

http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2010/08/lebron_james_puts_up_bricks_at.html

[Tohya]

There's nothing inherently wrong with Bron choosing to be the ultimate sidekick. But if he won't be "the man," he can't be the G.O.A.T. either. You just can't get the Big Job if you won't accept shouldering the Big Responsibility that goes with it.

Ill quote this first. The thing is Bony, nobody is a sidekick forever. Even Robin eventually became his own man. Bron is 25, you cant abdicate the alpha role at such an early age. Unless you can see into the future, whos to say Lebron wont do as Kobe has and win rings in the twilight of his prime? D-Wade is nearing 30 with a laundry list of past injuries. He isnt the future. Lebron is. I could easily see a 33 year old Lebron armed with his own legit sidekick winning a championship or two. Yeah he choose to be a sidekick. But one can only imagine why he did it. Was he worried he would never win a championship? Was he traumatized from having to carry a cursed city like Cle for all those years? Just because he choose to be a sidekick doesnt mean he wants to be one forever. Hell remember when Kobe eventually got tired of patting his stats and being known as a ball hog. Remember when Jordan finally realized that he needed to share the ball in order to win. It was never in those twos personality to share the spotlight or have to play second fiddle, but both did what they needed to do to win. There's nothing to suggest that the ultimate sidekick won't one day realize he can be Batman once again. And having said that, why are you agreeing with this ridiclous notion that his career should already be defined because he wants to be a sidekick now? Why is he automatically out of the GOAT conversation when his career is nowhere from being over. You of all people should know better. Imagine if we had only defined Kobe's career from the years of 98-07. He wouldnt have been in the G.O.A.T convo either, but look at him now.

The thing is while Lebron didnt always embrace being the man in Cle, it doesnt mean he didnt do it. He carried that team to levels they were never suppose to reach. Thats something nobody in the current goat convo can boast. I mean come on Bony, Lebron avereaged 42 points and a near triple double against the Magic in that 09 series. Does that really sound like a person who never shouldered the Big Responsibility? Did he embrace it? No. Did he get tired of it. Yes. Does it mean he can never do it again? No. Does he know that in order to secure his legacy he is going to have to do it by himself eventually? Yes.


And that's the key difference between all those other guys' situations that you mentioned and LeBron's situation: Pippen, Gasol, older Kareem--they're all absolutely the ultimate sidekicks--but not guys who were going to challenge MJ's, Kobe's, Magic's alpha role. Bron abdicated his alpha role. He essentially became the sidekick---Again, just like Barkley said, it's Wade's team.. Theres a flaw in the logic though. Kobe, Magic...they all were sidekicks at one point in their career. As I already mentioned above, history rarely cares about semantics like whether or not Bron wanted to be a sidekick or not. Theres more holes in that argument, like what would a ringless 26 year old Kobe had done in Lebrons position? Or a ringless Magic? Remember what Jordan said...in hindsight. Who knows what any of these guys would of done had they been ringless and by themselves on a team with an opportunity to play with other great players? Whos to say they wouldnt had done what Lebron did? Cuz there alpha males? Plz. Its rather easy to be an alpha male when your legacy is secure and your sitting on 3 rings. Ill talk about this in the paragraph below but remember what Kobe has accomplished as an alpha male with no sidekick....nothing.


Same thing with Kobe. When he asked to be traded because the Lakers hadn't put enough complimentary pieces around him (the pieces having been brought in previously to compliment the now-departed Shaq, not Kobe), he wasn't looking to go somewhere that he'd be paired with some other alpha star--he had hated that about being with Shaq; no, his preferred destination was Chicago, where he'd be the alpha, but with better support. But Buss and Kupchak didn't panic; Buss has dealt with (and made his franchise great off of) alphas his whole NBA life--been there, done that. So as he had done with Magic, he let patience weather the storm, and brought in Gasol--a phenominal complimentary player, not a true alpha. Problem solved.

I think that pretty much sums up Kobe's career. WIthout an extremely talented big man, his teams had problems. With them, problem solved. If Lebron is automatically taken out of the goat conversation because he choose to be a sidekick I think one has to see the flipside to that and take a look at someone like Kobe, who couldn't manage anything without being paired with a sidekick or being one himself. I mean its not like were talking about a rookie center hooking up with Kobe and then building a tandem that was unstoppable. Both Shaq and Gasol were already established superstars (obviously Gasol not as big a superstar but nonetheless a star) when they joined Kobe. Without them, Kobe has two first round exits, one season with no playoff apperance and an infamous no show game 7. His teams were dysfunctional and he couldnt carry medicore talent to even a 50 win season or to the second round of the playoffs. I think if people are gonna dissect Lebrons career, then we have to do it to everyone. Lebron has a finals apperance with one of the most poorly assembled teams in finals history. My other arugment is this, being an alpha male isnt the only quality needed for the G.O.A.T conversation. Just because you may lack one quality, doesnt mean you cant be considered as one of the greatest players of all time. In the end I find it ironic because while Lebron never embrace being "the man" he did it nonetheless, shouldering the "Big Responsibility" for so long while Kobe embraced being the man but could never shoulder said responsibility by himself. So in the end...whos belongs where?

[BonyT]

You make a fair point about Magic & Kobe spending their time as sidekicks. There is a big, obvious difference that you're ignoring though: Neither ever chose that role. It's the situation they both found themselves in at the start of their careers, but neither man could feel satisfied with it, because both always believed they were born to be "the man" to carry the big load--and both got out from under the sidekick role as soon as they were able and, as Magic said, never would have considered then pairing with another of the alphas of their time. Bron, in contrast, did CHOOSE to become a sidekick after having tasted--and disliked--the alpha role.

You're right though--there is no saying how the rest of LeBron's career goes, and who knows, maybe he does truly embrace the alpha role at some point. It's just that the fact that he did consciously choose to leave "the man's" role behind inclines me to give weight to MJ's, Barkley's & Magic's suggestions that Bron's just not the same kind of guy they are. (Michael in particular is said to have had these reservations about Bron for years.) But you're completely legit in saying that the ultimate jury is still out.

[ABrown]

Can anything possibly top watching Miami's big three lose on opening night? :D