"WWE Fatal 4-Way" 2010 Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

It will not be a Bash for WWE Champion John Cena and World Heavyweight Champion Jack Swagger as they find the odds stacked against them when they defend their titles against three challengers each at Fatal 4-Way! In a match where the champion does not have to be pinned to lose his championship, their chances of survival are just 25%.

In other scheduled action, the Intercontinental and United States Championships will both be on the line in singles action and Eve will defend her Divas Championship in a third fatal four-way match. With five matches on the card, more matches could be added during the event. Plus, we can expect Kane to be there as he continues to seek vengeance for The Undertaker. And Wade Barrett and the other season one NXT Rookies have given RAW General Manager Bret Hart until tonight to give them an answer on contracts for the group, including Barrett, who was fired by the GM on RAW (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=269464). The seven responded by attacking him, throwing him in his limo and crashing it into cars around the parking lot.


http://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/wwe.jpghttp://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/ppv.jpg
"WWE Fatal 4-Way #1"
Sunday, June 20, 2010 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on Pay-Per-View
From the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Long Island, New York

WWE Championship
Fatal Four-Way
Champion
John Cena
From: West Newbury, Massachusetts; Weighing: 240 pounds
vs.
Challenger
Randy Orton
From: St. Louis, Missouri; Weighing: 245 pounds
vs.
Challenger
Sheamus
From: Dublin, Ireland; Weighing: 272 pounds
vs.
Challenger
Edge
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada; Weighing: 250 pounds

World Heavyweight Championship
Fatal Four-Way
Champion
Jack Swagger
From: Perry, Oklahoma; Weighing: 263 pounds
vs.
Challenger
Big Show
Standing at: 7-feet tall; Weighing: 485 pounds
vs.
Challenger
CM Punk
From: Chicago, Illinois; Weighing: 222 pounds
with Luke Gallows & Serena
vs.
Challenger
Rey Mysterio
From: San Diego, California; Weighing: 175 pounds

United States Championship
Champion
The Miz
From: Cleveland, Ohio; Weighing: 231 pounds
vs.
Challenger
R-Truth
From: Charlotte, North Carolina; Weighing: 228 pounds

Intercontinental Championship
Champion
Kofi Kingston
From: Ghana, West Africa; Weighing: 221 pounds
vs.
Challenger
Drew McIntyre
From: Ayr, Scotland; Weighing: 243 pounds

Divas Championship
Fatal Four-Way
Champion
Eve Torres
From: Los Angeles, California
vs.
Challenger
Gail Kim
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
vs.
Challenger
Maryse
From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
vs.
Challenger
Alicia Fox
From: Ponte Vedra, Florida

Plus, Wade Barrett & the season one NXT Rookies "want an answer" from RAW General Manager Bret Hart


Please remember this thread is to talk about the EVENT. To talk about your picks, go to the Prediction Thread (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=269673). This includes how you did should you deem it necessary (it's not). This is not the place for "I've gotten two right" type posts.

[Marvin Tikvah]

REY MYSTERIO IS WORLD CHAMPION ONCE AGAIN.

I don't care what anyone else thinks or says, this is awesome and hopefully leads to some better booking than his first title reign 4 years ago.

[Ioz]

I'm not a fan of giving Rey the belt, particularly since he injured Undertaker and took his spot.

[Azrayel]

I'm not a fan of giving Rey the belt, particularly since he injured Undertaker and took his spot.

My thoughts exactly. Rey doesn't deserve this belt, it should be Undertaker's.

[Jin Kazama]

I'm not a fan of giving Rey the belt, particularly since he injured Undertaker and took his spot.

THANK YOU!

Seriously, how do you injure the top draw of the entire company and get rewarded with a World Title?

Maybe my dislike of Rey is clouding my judgment, but that blows my mind. Regardless, not looking forward to this.

[Wonderwall]

I have mixed feelings on Rey, especially in the last year. Now I've been a fan of Rey's for a long time, since the mid 90s, but in the last 12 months he has ( reportedly )refused to drop the IC belt to Dolph when he probably should have, got busted for being either on the gas or painkillers( probably the gas as he was smaller when he came back or both due to nagging injuries ) and his "punishment" was getting a top program on SD with Bats, is in a one sided feud with Punk, and injures Taker so he gets the belt:confused:. I just think it's a conflicting message to send "Do all this stuff and you're punished unless you sell a lot of merch and get good pops."

But at the same time I think he's still good in the ring, the crowd adores him, and his world title run from 4 years ago was by far the worst title run in WWE history that I think he deserves another chance with the title. I'm just conflicted on the events that led up to it, which is the second time it's happened with the guy.

[Nygma]

Oh great, Sheamus gets the title back in a fluke manner, and now we're gonna get him boring the crap out of us with his boring matches, and unproven title defenses.:mad:

Why does the E' bother with this loser? He's not over, he's not that good a wrestler, and has no presence as a character. He's like A-Train 2010 or something (except he didn't win a world title), but instead of points about his hairy back being made(by announcers, fans, and wrestlers), it's points about how pale his skin is being made.

On a positive note, at least Drew McIntyre (the most boring name for a wrestler EVER) didn't get the IC title back.

And who thought up Alicia Fox getting the Women's title?:confused:

[Azrayel]

And who thought up Alicia Fox getting the Women's title?:confused: I'm not sure if you are talking in terms of wwe, but hobbyfan thought about her wininng.

[Nygma]

( reportedly )refused to drop the IC belt to Dolph when he probably should have

Yeah, like Dolph Ziggler was ever gonna get over.:shrug: Not that I'm an advocate of wrestlers refusing to job, but him jobbing the IC title to Morrison was the better choice, as Morrison has a better chance of getting over than Dolph.


and his world title run from 4 years ago was by far the worst title run in WWE history

Have people already forgotten about Sheamus's 1st crappy run?

[Wonderwall]

Yeah, like Dolph Ziggler was ever gonna get over.:shrug: Not that I'm an advocate of wrestlers refusing to job, but him jobbing the IC title to Morrison was the better choice, as Morrison has a better chance of getting over than Dolph.

It's not the point if he would get over or not but he didn't get the chance. I'm not a big Dolph fan but wrestling is supposed to be give the new guys the rub and see if they sink or swim. When its not you get late 90s WCW.


Have people already forgotten about Sheamus's 1st crappy run?

I think you're letting your dislike of Sheamus get in the way here. Sheamus first run was not good but at least he wasn't made into a jobber on free TV. Rey still wins the worst booked champ in history of WWE.

[TnAdct1]

Okay, where does it say that Rey Mysterio was the one who injured the Undertaker? I checked PWTorch for results on the PPV, and there was no mention of Rey announcing that he was the one who attacked the Undertaker.

[Wonderwall]

Okay, where does it say that Rey Mysterio was the one who injured the Undertaker? I checked PWTorch for results on the PPV, and there was no mention of Rey announcing that he was the one who attacked the Undertaker.

No Rey actually legit injured Taker a few weeks ago on Smackdown when he accidently broke Taker's orbital bone with what reporters believed to be a seated senton. I'm not sure if they've revealed a kayfabe attacker yet.

[mumbo]

It annoys me how that's like the third time in a row Mysterio has pinned Swagger. What the hell are they doing? Swagger has great momentum. I love his new gimmick and thought he filled the role of world champion quite nicely even if it wasn't booked the best. Why have him lose to Mysterio so many times?

Sheamus is...an odd choice. I figured it would make more sense to keep the title on Cena and have Barrett go after it. If Cena's dealing with the NXT invasion, Cena and Orton are still going after each other, who's going to feud with Sheamus for the title?

The answer could be Evan Bourne? At least they're keeping his push going quite nicely, even if it's at Jericho's expense. Though Jericho's slide seems to be part of a storyline so I'm not concerned about his position in the least. Though, Vince, if you're afraid of Jericho leaving to pursue a hosting career, this may not be the smartest way to keep him here...


I'm not sure if they've revealed a kayfabe attacker yet.
No, but they strongly suggested it's CM Punk when Kane attacked during the match.

[Nygma]

I think you're letting your dislike of Sheamus get in the way here. Sheamus first run was not good but at least he wasn't made into a jobber on free TV. Rey still wins the worst booked champ in history of WWE.

At least Rey had successful title defenses, Sheamus didn't have ONE succesful defense. And creative didn't have enough faith in him to put him over any top level guys like Orton even in a flukish manner in non-title matches. The fact that he was unestablished when given the title didn't do him any favors. To me, that makes him worse than Mysterio (who was an established wrestler) cause he didn't do what Rey did; step up when the chips were down and successfully defend the title by "pinning wrestlers one, two, three."

[Marvin Tikvah]

Well, moving away from the Mysterio controversy...

The majority of the show was alright, it wasn't too great but it wasn't a total snooze like Over the Limit was. I got just about every match wrong in my predictions, but the surprise outcome of most of the title matches certainly pleased me. The summer is usually the lameduck months for the company where everyone's on cruise control, but with fresh champions and the Money in the Bank PPV next month, it seems like they're making an effort to keep the crowd hot for the next 3 months.

I'm not sure how to feel about Alicia Fox winning. I like her, but she just doesn't seem to stand out among other divas. Still, if she gets a chance to shine like Layla is now, then I can't complain much.

Evan Bourne/Chris Jericho is easily the best match of the night. The two put on a stellar match with Bourne coming out huge and Jericho losing in the best way possible. These two are seriously some of the best performers in the company and I'm glad to see they're getting used to their maximum potential now.

The IC and Unified Tag Team championship matches came out as expected and seemed pretty by the book. McIntyre getting screwed like that is quite lame though.

I was expecting R-Truth to win his title back, but looks like they weren't playing hot potato with this championship. I have no idea why Miz needs it since he's over enough to break into the main event, but I'm hoping one of these two can be involved in the Money in the Bank match.

[Wonderwall]

At least Rey had successful title defenses, Sheamus didn't have ONE succesful defense. And creative didn't have enough faith in him to put him over any top level guys like Orton even in a flukish manner in non-title matches. The fact that he was unestablished when given the title didn't do him any favors. To me, that makes him worse than Mysterio (who was an established wrestler) cause he didn't do what Rey did; step up when the chips were down and successfully defend the title by "pinning wrestlers one, two, three."

Sheamus was a heel, him just escaping with a title is what heel champs do. How many times have heel champs go over clean compared to dirty. Spin this however you want but I can think of other title reigns that were worse than Sheamus' but not Mysterio's.

Moving onto other aspects of the PPV, the continued habit of having unannounced matches is a really bad epidemic and really when you have 4 shows to hype PPVs there shouldn't be unannounced matches with no build up or stop and start build up like Jericho vs Bourne or Heart Dynasty vs the Usos. Bourne would look even better had they at least announced his match before hand or had him do more than one match with Jericho, it's not like either one were doing much since the last PPV. The Usos lost all momentum with the Viewer's Choice episode and this doesn't help, the only silver lining is that it wasn't a straight tag match for the straps. There's no excuse for these especially when they only announced 5 mathces.

[bigddan11]

Matches not listed in the first post added to the PPV:
Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne
The Hart Dynasty vs. The Uso's

[hobbyfan]

Alicia Fox, IMPO, has been one of the most improved Divas in the last year. Her use of the axe kick is the reason R-Truth now has the Lie Detector as his finisher, though he still uses the axe kick, so Alicia had to have impressed someone among the top brass. I picked her as my upset special, so it's nice to know that it works sometimes.

I'm tired of Drew McIntyre's whiny spoiled brat act, so now maybe they can send him down to the bottom of the card where he belongs.

Some newsboards are reporting that it could be Kane himself that attacked Undertaker, but since we've seen that feud enough times over the last 12 years, I just can't see it happening now. Speaks to creative complacency. What happened in the ring to UT was an accident, not Rey's fault.

I don't have a problem with Sheamus regaining the WWE title, but unlike some of you, I felt his first run had the wheels cut off at Elimination Chamber. Meltzer reports that Team NXT chased him out of the arena after they'd destroyed Cena & Edge, so I think we're going to see Team NXT vs. an unlikely unit of Shea, Edge, Cena, and either Orton or Jericho (if Randy's not 100%) over the next few weeks before Triple H returns. I think they've recovered nicely from losing Daniel Bryan (pro tempore, as some people would like to hope), don't you?

What I see: Jericho does a quick face turn (overdue) and could get written out tonight with Downfall starting tomorrow (yeah, I know it was pre-taped, but.....). He at least is relatively healthy despite the loss last night. Figure Hunter returns before the end of the summer, and he'll probably be the next champ after Shea.

[Jin Kazama]

Regarding Sheamus getting the title while Cena works with the NXT guys? WWE did this a few years back when RVD got the belt. He won it from Cena, but then went into a feud with Edge while Cena wrestled Sabu, fighting ECW as a whole kinda. This comes off like that to me. Which isn't bad. Barrett has a PPV title shot, but they never said what PPV. This could help get him over a little more before he gets that shot.

[Nygma]

Sheamus was a heel, him just escaping with a title is what heel champs do. How many times have heel champs go over clean compared to dirty. Spin this however you want but I can think of other title reigns that were worse than Sheamus' but not Mysterio's.

They at least get a pinfall in an illegal manner without getting DQ'd. Sheamus couldn't even do THAT even in NON-title matches against top level stars.

And this he's a heel crap is a poor excuse, and is why we get lame duck champions like them. Because the bookers fall back on crap like that.

[RedNinja84]

They at least get a pinfall in an illegal manner without getting DQ'd. Sheamus couldn't even do THAT even in NON-title matches against top level stars.

And this he's a heel crap is a poor excuse, and is why we get lame duck champions like them. Because the bookers fall back on crap like that.
That's why I hated Edge when he had the belt. He used every heel tactic to keep it and even was head of SD and could make up his rules, I hate that kind of stuff. As for Rey winning, I see this as more as a pacifier for him since he has been fighting with WWE over his salary. Guess they are afraid to lose a cashcow like him, since really that's all he is anymore. And it's shame because at one time he was an amazing and inovative wrestler in the business. But know WWE he uses him to sell merchandise to kids.

[Nygma]

That's why I hated Edge when he had the belt. He used every heel tactic to keep it and even was head of SD and could make up his rules, I hate that kind of stuff. As for Rey winning, I see this as more as a pacifier for him since he has been fighting with WWE over his salary. Guess they are afraid to lose a cashcow like him, since really that's all he is anymore. And it's shame because at one time he was an amazing and inovative wrestler in the business. But know WWE he uses him to sell merchandise to kids.

The difference between Edge and a guy like Sheamus is that Edge was portrayed as smart and more tactful when he did everything he could to keep the title. Sheamus has never been portrayed as anything other than lucky.

[RedNinja84]

The difference between Edge and a guy like Sheamus is that Edge was portrayed as smart and more tactful when he did everything he could to keep the title. Sheamus has never been portrayed as anything other than lucky.
That's true, but Edge's "ultimate opperntuist" gimmick wore out its welcome very fast. But I agree about Sheamus. He didn't even pin Cena to win the belt last year and I was upset that they were hot shoting the belt around and giving to a mid carder at the time was something I was against. The major problem with Sheamus is that he really has no character other than being Irish. They never really have developed his Celtic warrior persona at all.

[KJ Styles]

My thoughts exactly. Rey doesn't deserve this belt, it should be Undertaker's.

I agree, if Swagger had to lose the belt (which pissed me off) then Taker should have gotten it, not Rey.

This PPV was better than Over The Limit, but still wasn't spectacular. I loved the Bourne/Jericho match though. That was easily the best of the show. I'm also glad that Cena lost the belt, I'm sick of him.

[The Penguin]

Overall, I liked this PPV. I was very disappointed that we couldn't get more matches announced before the event actually took place. The two new matches weren't out of the blue; there was background for those that would have allowed them to be announced at least by SmackDown. On the plus side, with eight guys in the main events, it gave some more Superstars a chance to be on the card. To the show proper...

I scoffed when the intro video said this night had the "greatest odds ever faced by a champion." I was pretty sure that was an exaggeration and the combination of my memory and an Internet search found WWF Champion Kurt Angle facing five men, Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, The Undertaker and Rikishi inside Hell in a Cell at Armageddon 2000. Odds he survived, by the way.

Vince McMahon kicking off the show to announce that Bret wasn't going to be there was kind of a letdown. I kind of wondered how all the NXT stuff would go down with the Hit Man not there to give an answer.

Intercontinental Championship
By the end, I loved this match. Especially after what Drew did on Friday, I loved seeing Teddy Long stand up for himself and eventually count the Scotsman's shoulders down for three. Drew McIntyre is going to use what little whining he has left in the bank to get Matt Hardy reinstated so they can fight in the ring.

I have to admit, I about cried when Harry Smith said Bret Hart had been like a father to him for the past eight years.

Divas Championship
It took about a minute for this match to look like a messy clunker and the crowd turned on it in between disinterest and negative chants early. It got a little better, but it made me feel like other than a battle royal, there should never be more than two Divas legally in the ring at one time. I'm a bit intrigued/surprised with Alicia Fox getting the win. She certainly is the "let's trying something different" choice.

I don't know how big Mysterio's heart is, but I know that Big Show's fist is nearly as big as his head. :p

Bourne vs. Jericho
I love Chris Jericho's part history lesson, part self reflection promo. It was a great look back and forward giving his recent momentum issues. I'd say it was one of the best promos he's done in recent months.

Speaking of best, this was easily the best match on the card. If you read interviews he does, this is what Chris Jericho came back to do. He looked good as he always does and Evan Bourne looked like a star. This one was exciting the whole way through and I was thrilled to see Bourne finally get the win.

World Heavyweight Championship
Kane sought a little bit less revenge than I expected as it would seem he has decided Punk and the Straight Edge Society are responsible (or perhaps had chose Punk for vengeance on this night). Out of the four, Mysterio was the one I least wanted to win after the trainwreck that was his last World Title reign (the real injuries to The Undertaker aside). Without suffering through it again, the two biggest things I remember from Rey's first title reign was it was still all about Eddie Guerrero and they matched him up against the biggest and tallest guys they could find on the SmackDown roster. If they can avoid those two things, it could be okay.

I don't know that I really liked the Mission: Impossible theme to the Money in the Bank promo. I guess we'll see how it develops.

Cena's interview was pretty good, especially after what he had seen in the other four-ways. Too bad he was wrong about the agreement to stand united.

United States Championship
Miz's new rap was great. I don't know the forgot more words, I think he was waiting for the song to stop so he could do his "awesome" rhyme. I thought this was a pretty strong match actually. Lots of good back-and-forth with Miz working on Truth's midsection eventually garnering him the win.

Edge breaking down all three of his opponents and then himself was a neat interview regardless of what one may think of his accuracy in doing so.

Harts vs. Usos
I found it almost hilarious that Cole mentioned he and King "had the opportunity to call the debut match" of the Usos on Superstars (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3628753#post3628753). Hit YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/show/wwesuperstars) or Hulu (http://www.hulu.com/wwe-superstars) if you have time. They literally let about half the match go by talking about RAW before they do anything to acknowledge there is action in the ring. On the subject of commentary, I did like Striker mentioning Uso is Samoan for brother though; that was interesting. The match itself was neither fantastic nor horrible. It certainly had enough history over the last month to be booked on the card, though I probably would have rather had Christian-Ziggler if given the choice.

WWE Championship
First, I thought the opening video to this match was fantastic and perhaps much better than it deserved to be based on the overall build in the shadow of the NXT attacks. Honestly, thinking about the match before the NXT guys showed up, I can't think of anything that notable. Orton seemed to be fine after his shoulder issues.

As I said at the top, with Bret MIA, I wasn't sure what the NXT guys were going to do, but they made an impact again with their attack on the main event. It's a weird looking thing, but after all the talk on NXT, it's good to see Michael Tarver finally punch someone the last couple of weeks.

Sheamus broke the unwritten rule to defend against NXT, but he saw his opportunity and took it. I liked how the seven ran after him when he tried to gloat. They were after everyone.

Personally, I think Sheamus was/is a good Champion. I'm not gonna say he's great, but he is not horrible (and certainly not worse than Rey Mysterio). I'd be interested to know if those that are so critical of him have actually seen the PPVs from this year. Regardless of the eventual outcome, he has shown, especially on PPV, that he belongs in the ring with the guys at the top. He beat Randy Orton by DQ at the Rumble, he looked like he belonged in that ring with Orton before he did.

[Nygma]

I'd be interested to know if those that are so critical of him have actually seen the PPVs from this year. Regardless of the eventual outcome, he has shown, especially on PPV, that he belongs in the ring with the guys at the top. He beat Randy Orton by DQ at the Rumble, he looked like he belonged in that ring with Orton before he did.

Yes I've seen him on PPV and he was dull in the ring with Orton (then again who isn't), and beating someone by DQ is hardly an accomplishment. He couldn't even get an illegal win over Kane or Orton in non-title matches. Mysterio at least had succesful title defenses that didn't end in dq, and is a far better wrestler than Sheamus ever could be.

[Marvin Tikvah]

I was one of Sheamus' biggest critics during his first title reign. The guy winning the belt was a shocking surprise, but after the idea of a relative newcomer upsetting Cena wore off, he just couldn't click with me or what seemed like a lot of the audience. His matches were really spotty, he lacked confidence in front of the stage, and this lead to the WWE Championship taking a backseat because he couldn't be counted on to carry an entire program.

However, after his matches with Triple H in the spring, he seems to have finally found his niche. He's not a generic monster heel anymore since he seems capable of speaking and backing up his words. He's also admittedly a little more exciting in the main event than yet another cycle of Cena/Orton/Edge, so at this point, he seems like a welcome addition.

[Harley]

Señor Cruz and I were at the event and took a few pictures. (I think you can only see the album if you're on facebook.)
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=172863&id=546393320&ref=mf

No real analysis to add, other than... if we look like we had fun, that's because we did!

[The Penguin]

Señor Cruz and I were at the event and took a few pictures. (I think you can only see the album if you're on facebook.)
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=172863&id=546393320&ref=mf

No real analysis to add, other than... if we look like we had fun, that's because we did!Thanks for sharing, Harley. That was really cool. :)

I want to randomly mention that it was the noted Rick the Sign Guy (http://www.myspace.com/wwesignguy) who had that Justin Bieber sign. He goes to a lot of events, always seems to end up at ringside and always has some great signage.

[RedNinja84]

Yea nice photos, they look really professional.

[Harley]

I want to randomly mention that it was the noted Rick the Sign Guy (http://www.myspace.com/wwesignguy) who had that Justin Bieber sign. He goes to a lot of events, always seems to end up at ringside and always has some great signage.

I'll have to point that out to Brian tomorrow. ^_^