Bandai's in Trouble (Update: Bandai responds)

[HG Revolution]

Towards the end of the podcast, a pretty major statement: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2010-05-06

So Bandai's future is entirely dependent upon Haruhi and this mystery license (I'm guessing Summer Wars). Too bad that they were cursed with the Endless Eight, but hopefully they can still make it. I know I'm going to buy the Haruhi movie as I hope all the series' fans will, I might even pick up the Haruhi-Chan shorts if they're priced well, and, assuming it gets released, everyone needs to buy Summer Wars (or see it in the theaters if they release it!). And Bandai, remember to send screeners to every Oscar voter for the latter!

[Dragonpiece]

Towards the end of the podcast, a pretty major statement: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2010-05-06

So Bandai's future is entirely dependent upon Haruhi and this mystery license (I'm guessing Summer Wars). Too bad that they were cursed with the Endless Eight, but hopefully they can still make it. I know I'm going to buy the Haruhi movie as I hope all the series' fans will, I might even pick up the Haruhi-Chan shorts if they're priced well, and, assuming it gets released, everyone needs to buy Summer Wars (or see it in the theaters if they release it!). And Bandai, remember to send screeners to every Oscar voter for the latter!

I hope they aren't relying on a movie to get them back in the game. As all they could they is bring the regular edition, the special editon then the blu ray, then the blu ray special editon and then they'd probably be out of the game.

[chronoclast]

I don't think they have Summer Wars. The evidence right now is pointing to Funi having it: http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?t=99503

[stephane dumas]

If Bandai files for receivenship or bankrupcy, what'll happen to its subsdiairies like Sunrise studios and Banpresto?

[chronoclast]

If Bandai files for receivenship or bankrupcy, what'll happen to its subsdiairies like Sunrise studios and Banpresto?
I think they were referring to Bandai Entertainment, not Bandai Japan.

[GWOtaku]

Well, I think current & recent licenses are certainly a factor too in addition to Haruhi, but yeah. In terms of sales Haruhi 2 does seem to need to be literally that, as opposed to another Lucky Star. Their boxing it could help matters (they've said they will); they could make it even better by packaging it with the Haruhi-chan shorts instead of putting them out there on their own where, in my view, they'd be likely to be overlooked.

Of course, besides S2 there's the far better regarded Haruhi movie. No stigma attached to that title at all. It's a factor, and hopefully a big enough one.

Summer Wars is not a bad guess for this "other title"...it's licensed in the UK already, it's supposed to be very good and is delivering good numbers in Japan, so far there is silence. Yeah, I could see them waiting to announce it. If they can manage it, that's potentially a great coup for them right when they need it. And a movie doesn't cost as much to dub as a series, presumably. Fewer lines and all that.

But yeah...certain items like the upcoming Zeta films and Escaflowne are a higher priority now than before. I want them in the game for the long term when we're seeing better days in general economically, and I'm certainly not going to be caught with many great titles OOP and hard to get in my collection the way that I was when the bubble burst a few years ago.


I don't think they have Summer Wars. The evidence right now is pointing to Funi having it: http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?t=99503

That's a rumor that ended up getting debunked (http://www.animevice.com/news/funimation-chobits-eden-movies-but-no-summer-wars/4140/), actually.

[airfighter]

This is certainly bad news. I'll see what I can do, but don't expect miracles. I'm not that huge of a Haruhi fan to automatically buy (much less watch, having pretty much skipped the second season for the time being) anything from the franchise...though I will nevertheless try and keep supporting Bandai Entertainment through my other purchases.

Then again, I've been waiting about two months for Rightstuf to send me several backordered (yet not that old) Bandai items, so...they're also in trouble on the supply side. :shrug:

[Taekmkm]

Forget new licenses. How about NOT DELAYING YOUR CURRENT STUFF HUH?! Jeezuz wept, with lackluster licenses and constant delays in items, is it really a surprise they're in trouble?

[chronoclast]

That's a rumor that ended up getting debunked (http://www.animevice.com/news/funimation-chobits-eden-movies-but-no-summer-wars/4140/), actually.
I'm aware they denied it but I doubt the MangaUK guy was wrong about them dubbing it. I think Funi probably just weren't ready to announce it yet.

I don't really care if it's Funi or Bandai that has it. I just want it on Blu-ray already.

[GingaDaiuchuu]

Yeah, I really wasn't surprised when I heard that. They've been doing worse and worse. Maybe FUNimation will help them release some titles and/or rescue some if they die.

[GWOtaku]

Forget new licenses. How about NOT DELAYING YOUR CURRENT STUFF HUH?! Jeezuz wept, with lackluster licenses and constant delays in items, is it really a surprise they're in trouble?

I'd submit that the delays are a symptom of the troubles that they have been in, rather than the cause of them.


I'm aware they denied it but I doubt the MangaUK guy was wrong about them dubbing it. I think Funi probably just weren't ready to announce it yet.

I don't really care if it's Funi or Bandai that has it. I just want it on Blu-ray already.

But gia, the reporter I linked to, said she was told it's literally not in production at Funi and that they don't have it, though they'd certainly like to have it. It's always possible that things are different a month later, but one can't conclude from that earlier affair that Funi was trying to be ambiguous and hide something.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

If they're talking about a major player... they might be talking about Battle Spirits.

[TnAdct1]

Forget new licenses. How about NOT DELAYING YOUR CURRENT STUFF HUH?! Jeezuz wept, with lackluster licenses and constant delays in items, is it really a surprise they're in trouble? Let's not forget the poor choices that the company made when it came to the distribution to Hayate the Combat Butler (seriously, $40 retail price for six to seven episodes with no dub when rival Sentai Filmworks is selling the whole first season of Hidamari Sketch at the same price?).

[TheMP3000]

Let's not forget the poor choices that the company made when it came to the distribution to Hayate the Combat Butler

It must be selling good because my local Best Buys (5 in all) always sell out of Hayate volumes (they get like 8 copies of each shipment). Although I rarely see Sentai titles at Best Buy or even FYE, so that little difference is probably making it more profitable. The last Sentai title I saw was YUA Season 2, Part 1 and even then, they only had 1-2 copies in at each location. Heck, they won't even carry Clannad dubbed from what I've been told.

As for Bandai Ent being in trouble, what else is new. As long as they finish what they started, I can graciously bid them adieu. Unlike Geneon.

[GWOtaku]

Via the very new website Anime Briefs (created by the aforementioned gia, incidentally) there's a report on an official response (http://animebriefs.com/2010/05/07/bandai-entertainment-responds-to-eric-shermans-comments/) from Bandai that paints a substantially different picture:



“In response to Mr. Sherman’s comments and how they were interpreted, Bandai Entertainment has no plans to close down. We actually had a very good year in 2009 and good results in the first quarter of 2010. We have new titles to announce soon and we will be exhibiting at Anime Expo, Otakon, and New York Anime Festival this year. Mr. Sherman’s speculations about the state of the anime industry are interesting, but not accurate as it pertains to Bandai Entertainment, except in regard to the point that he was actually trying to make that if the market trend continues where there is little support for dubbed anime products, we may unfortunately, discontinue creating dubs and focus on sub-only releases. Hopefully this does not happen. We continue to be grateful to the fans that support our business.”

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Interesting news. With the recent 'sky-is-falling' cries, it's nice to see actual licensores feeling differently. While studios like Bang Zoon might not get any work, fans will nonetheless continue to get their favorite Japanese animation.

[airfighter]

That's a bit of a relief, at least for the time being, but the fact they might go ahead and stop dubbing anime if sales aren't there does fit the general gist of the podcast's conversation.

[GingaDaiuchuu]

Considering how bad Bandai has been doing, I'm calling it a bluff until I see proof.

[GWOtaku]

Er, define bad. If you're referring to the delays that's annoying as hell but not necessarily tied to bad sales, and the evidence you say you need we've never had. We only have what a company chooses to say. We've had cases of FUNimation saying that a given title is doing "well," for instance, but neither they nor anybody else announce numbers. "Well" is an undefined term and can vary depending on what it cost to get the show, to produce the show, etc.

On top of that, the statement certainly is supported by the fact that in the recent past Bandai's pretty much gone sub-only except for their A-list stuff.

[TheMP3000]

Er, define bad. If you're referring to the delays that's annoying as hell but not necessarily tied to bad sales, and the evidence you say you need we've never had.

The constant delays are caused by Bandai's switch in replicator companies. Technicolor handles many Hollywood releases, so naturally Bandai is one of the smaller clients. The delays are out of Bandai's hands, unless you really want them to come out on time and have defective discs and people fearing as such.

As long as the DVDs work, I will never complain about delays.

[GingaDaiuchuu]

Er, define bad.
Never meeting street dates, only releasing Code Geass R2 for Christmas, not re-releasing old titles, pretty much only selling Code Geass and Gundam 00, which both ended, and releasing the few other titles they've licensed in the past year sub-only or severely flawed, with no new titles announced, and the movies of one of their last big series being released by the Japanese to R1 without them.

[GWOtaku]

Mate, that's a list of your grievances with the company. The merits of each one aside, none of those things refute what the statement says.

[GingaDaiuchuu]

Mate, that's a list of your grievances with the company. The merits of each one aside, none of those things refute what the statement says.
Doesn't it seem like all those problems would mean they're doing poorly?

[veemonjosh]

We may unfortunately, discontinue creating dubs and focus on sub-only releases

Well, that explains why the Gurren Lagann movies are getting sub-only releases...:sad:

[Rabi~en~Rose]

So Bandai's future is entirely dependent upon Haruhi

so new bandais fate lies with a series old bandai would've never touched? thats sad. I miss old bandai :(

I guess this means 00 will never come to blu-ray in the US? that stinks :mad:

and sub only releases are baaaad and make me not want to buy series I otherwise would have :yawn:

[Scirel]

Well, that explains why the Gurren Lagann movies are getting sub-only releases...:sad:


A sub only release is an incredibly hard sell.

The main reason I buy anime DVD's is to hear the english dubs of a series I've seen in Japanese.

I'd rather they simply simulcast lower-tier shows and have them for sale as sub--only burn on demand things.

Higher tier shows would get a standard bilingual DVD release, maybe about 3 or 4 shows a year, depending on what comes out.

[Weatherman]

I think "well" can be defined as "if there was more available did they pick it up?" If something didn't perform well, either it was a poor seller or there's some major right's issue. Usually it's the former. Sounds kinda like 2010 is a make-or-break for Bandai Ent.'s current business model.

[TheMP3000]

Well, that explains why the Gurren Lagann movies are getting sub-only releases...:sad:
It's been said before, so its worth repeating.

Bandai Entertainment is not the licensor for the Gurren Lagann movies. Aniplex of America is.

Releasing the movies sub-only seems like the only financially responsible decision, given its not going to get on TV nor the TV series itself was very profitable dubbed. No point in throwing money into an endless pit like Geneon did with a bunch of licensing and dubbing C or B-list shows. Gurren Lagann may have been an A-list show in Japan, but its nowhere close to that status in America like Geass or Gundam 00. After all, Aniplex America is run by ex-Geneon executives, so they know how this market works and have learned from past mistakes.

[GWOtaku]

so new bandais fate lies with a series old bandai would've never touched? thats sad. I miss old bandai :(
Eh, I think your "old Bandai" sounds pretty mythical. This is the company that started releasing Galaxy Angel in 2004.


Doesn't it seem like all those problems would mean they're doing poorly?

Well, it's not like Bandai doesn't have issues. They stretched out Gundam 00 and Geass to get some more mileage out of em. Sentai and Viz are, from my speculative perspective, definitely in better shape. Heck, Sentai's finding its way back to more common dubbing whereas the Bandai statement is open about the possibility of eventually going sub-only if the support isn't there. Depending on what marketing strategy Media Blasters goes to now that they're switching over to boxed releases and away from the singles model, Bandai could end up indisputably dead last in terms of offering a cost effective product very soon. Even if it's because of their replicator and all of that as MP3000 says, their problem with street dates remains an issue that no other company has had. And of course, the Bandai statement basically agreed with Mr. Sherman about how sales justify dubs (or don't).

But does all that really obviously amount to a company that's in its death throes? Because that's what we're talking about. It'd certainly be a serious regression if they contracted even more and only subbed for every title, but even that would be very different from death. They'd be like Sentai-lite, minus the ADV-esque collapse beforehand. And again, we don't really have a way to deny or discover in detail what Mr. Iyadomi is saying about the recent quarter and overall 2009 sales.

In regard to Bandai not rereleasing their titles, I tried counting what they'd rereleased or are now planning to rerelease soon since the start of 2008 and I counted at least 24 different anime. The number would be a tad higher if I were counting anime that are discontinued now, such as Overman King Gainer. There are issues to pick out, sure--.hack//roots has yet to be boxed for instance, more than a few Gundam fans really wish they'd box up the original Gundam even if it's dub-only, and there's more...but still.


I think "well" can be defined as "if there was more available did they pick it up?" If something didn't perform well, either it was a poor seller or there's some major right's issue. Usually it's the former. Sounds kinda like 2010 is a make-or-break for Bandai Ent.'s current business model.

Well said, though in Bandai's case, maybe the question is more often "did they keep dubbing the property?" Some titles like Toward the Terra were subbed from the start and arguably should have been given a chance they never got, but with some other subbed releases they're cousins to other anime that were tried. .hack//roots comes out, and the sequel .hack//G.U. Trilogy ends up sub-only. Zeta Gundam gets released, its movie compilation gets subbed. Bandai badly overrated Lucky Star & paid for it; the OVA came out subbed. In contrast, Haruhi's getting more dubbing. The correlation's pretty convincing.

[veemonjosh]

Releasing the movies sub-only seems like the only financially responsible decision, given its not going to get on TV nor the TV series itself was very profitable dubbed.

I don't see why Ani-Monday couldn't air them sometime if they had been dubbed...

[TheMP3000]

I don't see why Ani-Monday couldn't air them sometime if they had been dubbed...

They would have had to cut the movies down. Ani-Monday is only 2 hour long block, factor in commercials -- it wouldn't work. They'd have to remove a lot of stuff to fit into that block. They'd need to cut roughly 15-20 minutes off the first movie and cut off 25-30 minutes of the second movie to fit the 2 hour block. It just wouldn't work and it wouldn't do it justice.

[Classic Speedy]

I did a little DVD Aficionado research.

Bandai released over 100 anime titles in 2008. In 2009, the number was down to roughly half that. But, if trends continue, at least 2010 won't be an even slimmer number; it should be about the same number as 2009 when all is said and done. Which means they're not shrinking their output.

It's also worth noting: The 2008 number is misleading because back then, Bandai was still doing singles on some of their shows. 2009 was the big switch to partial season sets/double disc sets, so of course that's going to skew the numbers lower.

I wouldn't exactly say Bandai is my favorite company right now (it's been a while since I've bought anything from them), but I'm not going to proclaim the sky is falling just yet.

[bigddan11]

They would have had to cut the movies down. Ani-Monday is only 2 hour long block, factor in commercials -- it wouldn't work. They'd have to remove a lot of stuff to fit into that block. They'd need to cut roughly 15-20 minutes off the first movie and cut off 25-30 minutes of the second movie to fit the 2 hour block. It just wouldn't work and it wouldn't do it justice.
Syfy has aired movies on Ani-Monday and Ani-Tuesday that were longer than 2 hours before. They usually aren't willing to pre-empt their regular programs though, but they don't mind usually cutting into the paid ad times.

[HG Revolution]

My guess is that the business move that cost Bandai was making too many different releases of the same show. Look at Gurren Lagann. By all means, the show seems fairly popular among American anime fans: 12th most streamed anime on Hulu, Animonday airings likely did OK. Seems like one of the few shows people have actually picked up on DVD recently from my experiences. The problem is, what DVD to actually buy? The cheaper sub-only release, or the special edition sub-only release, or the dual-language release with twice as many discs, or their special editions, or the more expensive box sets of the dual-language release, or their special editions, or just wait until the whole thing gets boxed up, or wait a few months longer for a cheaper Anime Legends release? I'm sure if you add up the sales of each individual release plan, it'd likely come out to an excellent sales number... for a series with only one or two release plans. It could only have been worse with Haruhi Season 1, given the whole chronological vs. broadcast order controversy.

[HellCat]

Japan sticking the company's nuts in a vice and offering them little to no genuine support likely does little to help their prospects.

I'm not sure how to read their response. I'd like it to be true but then this is a company which has in the past released ultimately false PR to save face.

[Scirel]

Gurren Lagann was sold in 3 parts, but this was comprised of 12 Separate releases, when only 3 were actually needed. 15 if you count the sub only releases.

Let's count, shall we?

SUB ONLY:

Part 1
part 2
part 3

Singles(pointless release):

part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
part 5
part 6

Normal releases (AKA the only ones needed):

part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Special Editions:

part 1
Part 2
part 3


Is it a wonder why it didn`t do well? People had no idea what the hell ws going on with the release!

[TheMP3000]

*snip*

The only release I acknowledge is the cheaper, faster release. That being the sub-only release, of course. A dub was an afterthought from what Mr.Yoshida has said in the past. It was 100% intended to be a sub-only release and cater to the disgruntled ADV pre-orders for a fast, fairly priced release. Get it out the door quick instead of sitting on it. I commend them for that. I was already waiting 5 months for ADV's release. I had no intentions of waiting another 5 months for Bandai to finish dubbing the series and paying oodles more. I would have just waited for a complete collection instead at that point. Which makes me hopeful that Aniplex of America won't change their mind and dub the movies, causing a delay and causing the price of the movie to go up. I will only pay so much for a movie.

I have a set limit on how much I'm willing to pay for a 13 (or less) episode series and 24-26 episode series. A bilingual, dub-only, sub-only never factors into the formula. 12-13 episode series, no more than $30 at discount. 24-26 episode series, no more than $60 at discount. Bare in mind, this is initial release alone not waiting for inevitable or not so inevitable complete collections. $54 for Gurren Lagann sub-only vs $72 bilingual (not adding in any LEs). It was also released faster, which is another key criteria I expect out of a release and a company.

As for people who didn't know if they were buying the sub-only or bilingual like the alleged they bought it by mistake, learn to read the back of the package. That will help immensely. If you don't do that, go back to school. I'd like to believe there is still a piece of common sense left in people's brains, but that's asking too much apparently.

[Scirel]

For me, a sub only release is a waste of money. I enjoy dubs and they are the main, mostly only reason I would rewatch a series I've already seen.

Simulcast / online distro is the way to go for subs, IMO.

Even though that's the only release you wanted, people buying it would be very confused why there are four separate editions of the same 9 episodes in the series.

[GWOtaku]

Speed is something, but Aniplex isn't really saving us any money with its marketing of the Gurren Lagann movies. After the Bandai store's current pre-order sale discount they're $24 each, whereas $25 was the MSRP for a DVD of Sword of the Stranger.

One's mileage will vary I suppose, but also to me a difference of about $20 is chump change for a dubbed TV series.

I never really got their part 1/2/3 + separate singles strategy that they used for some titles. The two-single bundles were always the better deal no matter where you bought them from.

Oh, I should also repeat again however that great quality does trump sub/dub considerations for me anytime. Though in GL's case, if I had to choose it'd be the TV series.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

I don't see why a sub-only release is a waste, espicially when fans of the show get to own the show on home video (hopefully with a good pair of subs).


Anyhow, once my financial situation improves I plan to throw down the cash for any title Bandai releases that I like (Gundam 00, the Zeta films, etc.) While you scorn me with your delays, I shall remedy your ailing soul with my jacksons!!

[TheMP3000]

Simulcast / online distro is the way to go for subs, IMO.


If you favor companies shooting themselves in the foot. Subs are already readily available on the internet for free, companies should offer something more like put up the dubs and subs at the same time and if they can't do that, then don't bother trying at all. It's really pointless to put something out there that is already out there for free.


Speed is something, but Aniplex isn't really saving us any money with its marketing of the Gurren Lagann movies. After the Bandai store's current pre-order sale discount they're $24 each, whereas $25 was the MSRP for a DVD of Sword of the Stranger.

I'm proudly buying the LEs for the Gurren movies, which is something I probably wouldn't have done if it had included a dub which would have inevitably caused the price to jump up more. Movies aren't applied to my rule of how much I'm willing to pay for a series. After all, I'm willing to pay $35-40 or more for Criterion releases.