B:TAS "Riddler's Reform" Talkback (Spoilers) [Archive]

James Harvey

03-23-2002, 01:29 PM

Discuss this classic Batman: The Animated Series episode!

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/riddlersreform/00.jpg
Episode #079 - Riddler's Reform
Original Airdate - September 24th, 1994.

Upon his release from Arkham, the Riddler becomes an instant celebrity with his own line of toys and games. Soon he's rich, well-liked and happy, except for the fact that he's never managed to best Batman in a battle of wits. Realizing that he's still obsessed with beating the Dark Knight and that the obsession will lead to his downfall, the Riddler lures Batman into a death-trap puzzle to get rid of his opponent and end the riddle games.

Comments?

Jimmy Kustes

03-24-2002, 03:01 PM

What a classic episode! Love it! Can't wait to watch it again on CN tonight!

MILatino

03-24-2002, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by Duncanzits
Batman #79 Riddler's Reform - Upon his release from Arkham, the Riddler becomes an instant celebrity with his own line of toys and games. Soon he's rich, well-liked and happy, except for the fact that he's never managed to best Batman in a battle of wits. Realizing that he's still obsessed with beating the Dark Knight and that the obsession will lead to his downfall, the Riddler lures Batman into a death-trap puzzle to get rid of his opponent and end the riddle games.

Excellent episode. It was well written, adult, and the end was great... especially the last shot of the Riddler wanting to know how Batman escaped the death trap.

Interesting how for once, someone got hurt (Robin). Fortunately for them, he did. If he had not, he would've tagged along in the end, got caught in the death trap with Batman, and Batman would have saved Robin's hide and gotten caught in the trap.

TheScarecrow

03-24-2002, 06:25 PM

I taped this episode when they aired it during the Batman vs. Superman deal back in late January. Why did they push back Over The Edge a week to air this?

JohnStewart-GL

03-24-2002, 07:52 PM

This was a nice ep, not my fav but good. The scene were the girls are hittin on Riddler was cool.When Bruce was explaining to Dick how he escaped was cool. And the ending were hes yealling in Arkham and Jokers covering his ears was really funny.

Jimmy Kustes

03-24-2002, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by JohnStewart-GL
This was a nice ep, not my fav but good. The scene were the girls are hittn on Riddler was cool.

So much hidden inuenndo (sp?) snuck past Fox Kids.

Naraht

03-24-2002, 07:57 PM

WOW!!!!!

I had NEVER seen this ep, and seeing as the Riddler is my favorite Batman Rogue...

WOW!!

=D

4.5 *s!

The Penguin

03-24-2002, 08:25 PM

"You can play all you like. You and I both know that I'm going to put you away because you can't help yourself. You can't stop. And I'll be waiting." -Batman to The Riddler, Riddler's Reform

All the Riddler episodes in TAS are fantastic and this one is no exception. I love how Batman pulls a fast one on the Riddler and Edward's ensuing rant in the stone walls of Arkham. I also like the scene transition from the explosion to the fire place-very well done. I love (almost) all the TAS episodes and this one is worthy of the top rating.

TheScarecrow

03-24-2002, 08:53 PM

Wasn't Over The Edge supposed to air tonight? Why did Riddler's Reform replace it?

The Penguin

03-24-2002, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by TheScarecrow
Wasn't Over The Edge supposed to air tonight? Why did Riddler's Reform replace it?

"It's impossible, I tell you! Impossible! My trap was perfect! How did he do it!? I have to know! Somebody tell me! It's not fair! There was no way, I tell you! No way he could have gotten out! Somebody tell me! Do you hear me!? Somebody tell me how he did it! I have to know! I have to know-w-w-w-w!" -The Riddler, Riddler's Reform

Well since you have to know, I guess they just moved it. Over the Edge is now set for next Sunday. Now back to The Riddler. :)
(I love quotes too much :rolleyes: )

Borg4of3

03-25-2002, 12:06 AM

The Riddler's episodes are great, and this one is the best of the bunch! The Riddler is portrayed extremely well here, as a genius who can't help himself, and a person who is truly insane. I love the fact that Batman actually sees him as a threat, and, of all the Rogue gallery, doesn't even show a lick of compassion for him, or even hope that he could get better. Of course, Batman's animosity could also be attributed to the fact that the Riddler embarrassed him, not once, but thrice in this episode alone - the opening scene with the Riddler's new 'partner', the 10Leslie riddle, and the 2 way radios gag. And the last few scenes were just classic! Nigma's insane rantings is probably why Joker didn't invite him to the poker game in 'Almost Got 'im'!

I gave this ep a 5!

CadaverousEyes

03-25-2002, 01:29 AM

How did a bulky guy like Batman fit into that small safe? How did he manage to not suffocate? How did he break out with no room to move? How would he break out period? Sometimes an answer will only lead you to more questions. Nigma's better off not knowing.

Fun episode. The "remembering" voice-overs plus Bruce's explanations to Dick were kinda annoying, but eh. It's understandable, seeing how little kids watch this too. (at least they better be if they know what's good for them) And it's always nice to see Batman's photographic memory at work.

Those women should have become Quiz and Query in TNBA. Give the guy a break; it's bad enough having to wear spandex and becoming completely bald prematurely, but being all alone too?

TheScarecrow

03-25-2002, 01:59 AM

Well I didn't watch much of this tonight given that I already got it on tape, but it's as good as everyone is making it out to be.

John Clover's voice is perfect for the character, and I like the animated take on the character which is more of a intellectual snob.

I still wish they aired Over The Edge though, but I guess I can wait another week. :rolleyes:

Wow, my 100th post. :D

Lucky Bob

03-25-2002, 02:06 AM

I liked it, except for one logic flaw.....

HOW DID BATMAN GET OUT OF THE SAFE????

Jimmy Kustes

03-25-2002, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by luckybob1985
I liked it, except for one logic flaw.....

Yeah, I want to know as well, can someone explain?

Ed Liu

03-25-2002, 10:32 AM

Howdy all,

I think the references to Houdini throughout the toy exhibit are all you really need to know about how Bats fit in the safe and how he got out of it, if it's something that bugs you. He did train with John Zatara in escape artistry, after all.

That said, normal safes don't lock just by closing the door. You usually have to lock a handle on the outside to fully lock them. So, I just figured Bats closed the safe door, let the bomb go off, and then opened the safe door to get out. I was more bothered by asking, "How did he dig himself out of the rubble pile?" =8^).

-- Ed/Ace

Lucky Bob

03-25-2002, 10:49 AM

Yeah, that too!

AAARGH! How did he do it? I must know how he got out of the rubble pile!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAARGH!!!!!!!!

rhynokane

07-23-2002, 03:35 AM

I loved this one a lot. I don't know why, it was just excellent.

Bleu Unicorn

07-23-2002, 04:51 PM

I'm always a little behind the times when it comes to talkbacks! But nonetheless.

Riddler is one of my favorite villains when it comes to the BTAS episodes. They really are just wonderful. This one is absolutely not an exception. It truly showcases the manic side of Riddler -- and as always has Batman coming out on top. In a none-to-shabby way, if I might add. The ending with Riddler's rant from Arkham is just wonderful. I truly can't get enough of this one.

Five stars!

DKstormyknight

08-02-2002, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by BleuUnicorn
I'm always a little behind the times when it comes to talkbacks!

Me too :), anyways, The Riddler is also one of my favs and this is a great ep. I loved the part at the end with him srceaming, "Its impossible, I tell you impossible! My trap was perfect! How did he do it? I have to know! Somebody tell me it's not fear! There was no way I tell you, no way he chould have gotten out...Somebody tell me, do you hear me, Somebody tell me how he did it. I have to know..I have to knooooooooow!" (Whew!!! :D )...And the way Batman survived the trap. This is a good episode.
5 out of 5 stars!!!!!

Carrieattheprom

09-16-2004, 07:34 PM

I noticed some interesting character development with Batman & Robin in this story. Robin broke his ankle(and maybe his foot too, I'm not sure) and Batman was actualy hesitant to leave Robin's side! Did you notice? Robin had to say,"I'll be all right, go! Go!" And Batman hesitated one more second before finally jumping out the window after the bad guys.

Harlequinade

09-16-2004, 07:41 PM

5stars

I love the Riddler, he's one of my favorite villans, because he uses his intelect to try and defeat Batman and his obsession makes him even more dangerous the next time the Dark Knight encounters him! This one is no excepetion to all the great Riddler episodes in B:TAS because there all good and I like this one the best. I like how Batman tricked Riddler into his own defeat at the end and at the very end he's screaming in Arkham.:)

Revelator

06-16-2005, 09:23 PM

I remembered this episode fondly, and revisiting it on DVD was a happy experience.
Contrary to what do many on this talkback seem to believe, this is the only good Riddler episode in BTAS. Next to "Riddled," episodes like "If You're so Smart" and "What is Reality" look like junk--episodes that with a some careful rewriting could have starred other villains. "Riddler's Reform" is the only BTAS episode to really focus on Riddler's personality.

It does so by emphasizing what the show should have emphasized from the beginning--Riddler is addicted to the "game" of trying to outwit Batman, his only worthwhile adversary, and as an addict he simply can't stop leaving riddles behind. So for the first time we get a sense of the Riddler's insanity, topped off by John Glover's wonderful fit of ranting and screaming at the end--perhaps his finest moment, and one reminiscent of Frank Gorshin's definitive portrayal of the Riddler as a manic genius. The end practically redeems the episode, which has a few problems: Robin's presence seems extraneous, Riddler's kiddy toys seem unworthy of him, and the riddles are figured out too quickly.

I thought it interesting that another poster commented that Riddler wasn't seen in "Almost Got 'Im," because it's true that Riddler seems to exist apart from the other major villains. (In "Trial" he can be briefly glimpsed in the jury, but he doesn't say a word or have anything to do.) In many respects, it's unfortunate that after nailing the character in "Riddler's Reform" little more was ever done with him. And why go to trouble of redesigning Riddler in TNBA if nothing significant would feature him (we got a few disappointing cameos and that was it). I liked the TNBA design, but wish we'd have seen another Riddler episode or two. (I'd have loved to seen the Riddler take on the Joker, in the ultimate battle between criminal geniuses.)
Among all the great villains in BTAS, Riddler was surely the least well-utilized.

LeatherWings

06-16-2005, 10:42 PM

So is this America where B:TAS airs or is it on YTV, I don't really care seeing as I ahve all the DVDs, but when and is it Cartoon Network?(Also has it had any eps from TNBA?)

EDIT: Nevermind noticed the date of the original post. Man just when I thought WB was giving B:TAS the respect it deserves. And I don't see how people can think Riddled s better than B:TAS's Riddler eps, ugh I hated that ep of The Batman more than usual, I don't know if its becuase the design ruined it for e from the start and thats all I could think about or simply becuase his riddles were lame, alteast compared to B:TAS's. I mean 20 questions what does that have to do with riddles, is your hair blonde, please I could've thught of that if I had a brain tumor and was close to death. Still nothing beats Hush's Riddler.

John Cage

06-17-2005, 06:38 AM

This episode turned me around on The Riddler. He didn't do it for me in his first two appearances, but -- and I distinctly remember this moment -- when the Riddler's with the two women at the party and isn't sure how to react... that did it for me. He suddenly became as interesting as the Joker. My exact thoughts at the time. Funny the things you remember.

Have a good day.
John Cage
(Mystery Man)

Gaunt

06-17-2005, 08:33 AM

EDIT: Nevermind noticed the date of the original post. Man just when I thought WB was giving B:TAS the respect it deserves. And I don't see how people can think Riddled s better than B:TAS's Riddler eps, ugh I hated that ep of The Batman more than usual, I don't know if its becuase the design ruined it for e from the start and thats all I could think about or simply becuase his riddles were lame, alteast compared to B:TAS's. I mean 20 questions what does that have to do with riddles, is your hair blonde, please I could've thught of that if I had a brain tumor and was close to death. Still nothing beats Hush's Riddler.
Because the Riddler on "The Batman" has fixed all of the problems plagueing the character. No longer causing his own downfall due to Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, this Riddler controls the riddles, not the other way around. He uses them for practical means, muddling the truth and throwing people off his game plan. Furthermore, he is actually a threat, taking a sadistic glee in the pain he inflicts on others. He still has his wit, intelligence, and arrogance as well.

Even Eric Radomski, one of the co-creators of B:TAS, wasn't satisfied with the Riddler on his show.

LeatherWings

06-17-2005, 10:21 AM

Gaunt

06-17-2005, 12:22 PM

Well thats what makes the old Riddler so good if you ask me, he was obsessed. Its better than having 'Marylin Manson diguised as a KISS groupie' sydrome. I bet you anything that if they ever bring in Robin he'll be in a costume even worse than his speedo one.
So you argue that better character design beats characterization?

The problem with the "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder" motivation is that it leads to his defeat EVERY SINGLE TIME. Batman (or in B:TAS, Robin) solves his riddles and promptly defeats him. Heck, that is what gave the character a "loser villain" connotation in that he doesn't win. Then, they tried to fix that in "Hush" and "Riddle Me That," having the Riddler trounce Batman yet not solve any of the problems (in fact, only creating new ones. Now that Riddler defeated Batman, one of his biggest goals, what's he going to do?). The Riddler on "The Batman" is genuinely threatening, willing to inflict torment and pain to achieve his goals. He was defeated by his arrogance, not by his obsession. Furthermore, Robert Englund is creepy as the Riddler, combining the elements of an egomaniac, a serial killer, and a genius in one voice. It doesn't matter whether or not he looks like a "KISS Groupie." The achievement with the character overrides that on so many levels.

Borg4of3

06-17-2005, 01:52 PM

So you argue that better character design beats characterization?

The problem with the "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder" motivation is that it leads to his defeat EVERY SINGLE TIME. Batman (or in B:TAS, Robin) solves his riddles and promptly defeats him. Heck, that is what gave the character a "loser villain" connotation in that he doesn't win. Then, they tried to fix that in "Hush" and "Riddle Me That," having the Riddler trounce Batman yet not solve any of the problems (in fact, only creating new ones. Now that Riddler defeated Batman, one of his biggest goals, what's he going to do?). The Riddler on "The Batman" is genuinely threatening, willing to inflict torment and pain to achieve his goals. He was defeated by his arrogance, not by his obsession. Furthermore, Robert Englund is creepy as the Riddler, combining the elements of an egomaniac, a serial killer, and a genius in one voice. It doesn't matter whether or not he looks like a "KISS Groupie." The achievement with the character overrides that on so many levels.The problem here is the question of what defines a good villain, and I don't believe a success rate is part of it. First, don't get me wrong - I'm up for different interpretations, and 'Riddled' created a very interesting take on the Riddler. I agree making him in control of the riddles is a fantastic turn-about, and a way to make him actually threatening to Gotham and Batman.

But its Riddler's psychological need to give riddles (and his subsequent leading to his own defeats) that made that version of the Riddler interesting. In fact, the fact that he was the 'loser villain' made him classic, different, and unique amongst Batman's rogue gallery. And from character faults come potential for change and evolution, as in the late Batman Adventures and the examples you mentioned.

Both versions are intriguing, and I don't know if you can say one is better than the other when they're both fantastic in their opposite representations. Creepy, in control, and threatening versus Arrogant, out of control, and challenging.

Gaunt

06-17-2005, 04:04 PM

The problem here is the question of what defines a good villain, and I don't believe a success rate is part of it. First, don't get me wrong - I'm up for different interpretations, and 'Riddled' created a very interesting take on the Riddler. I agree making him in control of the riddles is a fantastic turn-about, and a way to make him actually threatening to Gotham and Batman.

But its Riddler's psychological need to give riddles (and his subsequent leading to his own defeats) that made that version of the Riddler interesting. In fact, the fact that he was the 'loser villain' made him classic, different, and unique amongst Batman's rogue gallery. And from character faults come potential for change and evolution, as in the late Batman Adventures and the examples you mentioned.

Both versions are intriguing, and I don't know if you can say one is better than the other when they're both fantastic in their opposite representations. Creepy, in control, and threatening versus Arrogant, out of control, and challenging.
Good points. I just find this Riddler to be more interesting in that regard. The B:TAS version does provide good potential, as seen in Batman Adventures, primarily by examining his chances for redemption and his relationship with Batman. Unfortunately, the writers of B:TAS did not mine that potential, resulting in a shortage of good Riddler stories.

The reason why I see the Riddler from "The Batman" better is because he has longetivity to go with his personality. As good as the B:TAS/Comic Riddler can be, the stories can become too predictable and boring. Again, I feel that "The Batman" Riddler has solved most of the problems plagueing him from my opinion.

Batman Fan

06-17-2005, 07:01 PM

Another great Riddler episode, can't decide which one I like better, this one or If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich. I think probably this one, but only by a little.

Riddler selling toys didn't seem like an exciting plot to me at first, but it was a nice scheme to cover his other riddle crimes and become richer. Although, I would've like to see more expansion on the toy plot, but oh well. Joker plot Those were some pretty cool toys too, a two-way radio, which ultimately his curiosity and obsessiveness, along with his radio led to his own demise. The thing he created to cover up his crimes, led to the revealtion of his crimes. Me loves some irony!:D

This episode really went more inside the mind of Edward Nygma into his twisted psyche, and we really discovered how insane and obsessed he was. Giving riddles is like breathing to him, he has to do it to stay in the state of sanity he believe he has. At first, even I thought he made Batman look really paranoid, but Batman knew better, and I should've too. The one thing that contradicts Riddler's M.O. is that he tried to kill Batman. What I mean is, he really thought he was successful in killing him, and wanted to give up his life of crime. But one can only wonder how long he would've lasted not having someone as challenging as Batman to bounce riddles off of. And I have to say, Riddler's final trap was kinda lame. The finale was great, Batman revealing himself to be alive, a little fight, and Riddler screaming maniacally in Arkham wondering how Batman survived.

Another thing I'd like to mention is how I loved the look of this episode, not just the animation, which was great, but the rain that lasted through the entire episode, I really liked how the rain looked, it added a hazy, mysterious feel to the mood, plus, you could always hear the rain in just about every scene, and it just looked different in this episode, but I liked it, that combined with all of the buildings and backgrounds shown in this episode really added to the visual appeal I got, the buildings color and design were beautiful, and the sky's color made it dark and eerie. I just really dug the whole look of this episode.

*****

LeatherWings

06-18-2005, 11:03 AM

As good as the B:TAS/Comic Riddler can be, the stories can become too predictable and boring. Again, I feel that "The Batman" Riddler has solved most of the problems plagueing him from my opinion.
Uhh, I don't get it how was something like Hush more predictable than The Batman, The Batman hasn't had a single "thought provoking" problem in its entirety. Where as Hush, I couldn't put down for a second. Hush had way more mystery then The Batman ever has or ever will. I agree with Borg on this, thats what makes him so cool, he's a genius, yet he can't out smart Batman half the time, and he's just different then the rest. Hey it beats "KISS Groupie" syndrome, no offense to KISS Groupies. They completely ruined him if you ask me, he now looks too young, and way too different, one of their worst redesigns yet, and he's also WAY out of character.

As far as the mystery in Hush goes, sure its no Long Haloween but its way better than anything we'll ever see on The Batman. Athough it is impossiblt to compare Modern Comics to The Batman, I mean one i the definant Batman and the other is, well, pathetic. Now The Batman VS. Adam West style, that would be a close match.

Gaunt

06-18-2005, 11:18 AM

Oh, please. Hush was one of the most over-hyped stories around. Loeb lost whatever touch he had in previous works (most notably Dark Victory), instead making a lame new villain (who's exploits continues in the horrendous Gotham Knights title) and a paper-thin plot. The only reason for the story at all was to showcase Jim Lee's artwork.

Regarding the Riddler in Hush, it really didn't solve anything. So the Riddler beat Batman and solved his secret identity. He beats Batman again in Riddle Me That. What is there left to do? His entire existence (as you claim) was to outsmart Batman and he suceeded. Now, like Bane, he has nowhere left to go.

Meanwhile, you continue your rants. Your only defense against "Riddled" was a bad visual ("a Kiss groupie"), discounting any character achievement made by the show. It's not the only time either. Remember "Rubberface of Comedy," where you said it was unrealistic and stupid that Ethan became Clayface because he inhaled the chemicals? Then, I proved you wrong, only to see you disappear without even a rebuttal. You nitpick the show, looking for any flaws to back up your opinion. Even Fone Bone, who hates the show, can admit there are some good episodes, like "Riddled" and "The Laughing Bat." Even though I love B:TAS, I can still admit its flaws, instead of following it blindly. Riddler was one of the flaws, a badly written character most of the time. "The Batman" fixed the character, making him interesting and threatening.

Finally, you don't seem to get the point of the Adam West Batman or "The Batman." Adam West's show was satire, making fun of comic books (and it was an accurate reflection at the time, with outrageous plots and ridiculus characters). "The Batman" is supposed to showcase the evolution of Batman, with actual respect toward the character. Thus, you're comparing apples to oranges, two different things.

LeatherWings

06-18-2005, 12:09 PM

Umm, RoC does suck, how can the Joker putty when attached to someone's foot(like Joker's two dumb assistants) not make them completely made of Clay, but Ethan inhales a small amount of Joker putty gas, and poof he's Clayface.

Secondly wow, really The Batman isn't a spoof, that makes it even worse, its such a disgrace to Batman I thought it was a spoof. I mean they're putting Batgirl before Robin, might add Nightwing before Robin as well, I mean how is that not pure blashphemus against Bob Kane and Batman, sure West's Batman sucked as well, but atleast it was meant to be a spoof, and even they know Robin before Batgirl.(By the way if you can't tell thats a joke about it being a spoof, yeah I know its not suppost to be, but it does a worse job than a spoof would.

Gaunt

06-18-2005, 02:13 PM

Your exact words:

I would have given it a 3.5 if the gas had actually gotten on him somehow, but all he did was breathe it, and its tuning him into a monster, its umm stupid, I guess. I mean Yin stood there at practically enhailed it when she talked to him. Welp, I'll be back tor review part two and later eps(I already know the one with Poison Ivy and Batgirl is gonna be an automatic zip)Now, you you try to back up your original assertion (which has been refuted) with a new nitpick.

And regarding your complaints, do you realize you're talking about a CARTOON based on a COMIC CHARACTER? It doesn't matter whether or not some parts seem implausible, so long that it tells a good story. Do people complain about the noise in space or "The Force" is Star Wars? Do people complain about the Joker's origin, which involves falling into a vat which bleaches skin, turns hair green, and stretches smiles into a permanant grin? Do people complain about Man-Bat (in any version), a person who can turn half-man and half-bat? Do people complain about Superman, an alien that can fly, shoot heat rays, and can look like a normal human being? No. Mediums, such as movies, comics, and TV, does not necessarily depend on reality. They just need to tell good stories.

Secondly wow, really The Batman isn't a spoof, that makes it even worse, its such a disgrace to Batman I thought it was a spoof. I mean they're putting Batgirl before Robin, might add Nightwing before Robin as well, I mean how is that not pure blashphemus against Bob Kane and Batman, sure West's Batman sucked as well, but atleast it was meant to be a spoof, and even they know Robin before Batgirl.(By the way if you can't tell thats a joke about it being a spoof, yeah I know its not suppost to be, but it does a worse job than a spoof would. Summarized:
1. Batgirl is before Robin! The show must suck!
2. Uh...."The Batman" sucks!

"The Batman" is revamping characters for a different universe, like Marvel's Ultimate series or Bruce Timm's series. Who cares if something happens in a different order? It's not heresy. (By the way, did you know that Bob Kane loved the 1960s Batman show? It is still enjoyed by a lot of Bat-fans, too. Plus, it was an accurate portrayal of comics at that time).

Please note that throughout your responses, you never did argue about character development or stories. You talked about how you hate Riddler's design, how Batgirl shouldn't come before Robin, and the realism of the Joker putty.

Casey Mack

06-18-2005, 02:27 PM

Your exact words:

Now, you you try to back up your original assertion (which has been refuted) with a new nitpick.

And regarding your complaints, do you realize you're talking about a CARTOON based on a COMIC CHARACTER? It doesn't matter whether or not some parts seem implausible, so long that it tells a good story. Do people complain about the noise in space or "The Force" is Star Wars? Do people complain about the Joker's origin, which involves falling into a vat which bleaches skin, turns hair green, and stretches smiles into a permanant grin? Do people complain about Man-Bat (in any version), a person who can turn half-man and half-bat? Do people complain about Superman, an alien that can fly, shoot heat rays, and can look like a normal human being? No. Mediums, such as movies, comics, and TV, does not necessarily depend on reality. They just need to tell good stories.

Summarized:
1. Batgirl is before Robin! The show must suck!
2. Uh...."The Batman" sucks!

"The Batman" is revamping characters for a different universe, like Marvel's Ultimate series or Bruce Timm's series. Who cares if something happens in a different order? It's not heresy. (By the way, did you know that Bob Kane loved the 1960s Batman show? It is still enjoyed by a lot of Bat-fans, too. Plus, it was an accurate portrayal of comics at that time).

Please note that throughout your responses, you never did argue about character development or stories. You talked about how you hate Riddler's design, how Batgirl shouldn't come before Robin, and the realism of the Joker putty.
Hey no need for all this guys get back on topic. In my opinion the only problem i have with the riddler in "The Batman":sad: is that he has no backstory or we never understand why he does these things. The BTAS riddler may have had some problems but atleast we found out why he does these things instead of him walking around like a rock n roll star. Now i like "The Batman", its really more of a kids show then a show for teenagers and such. I mean cops dun even carry real guns lol but its still cool. If "The Batman" whats to rewrite 60 plus years of history and bring in "The batgirl" first then go head as long as she is not annoying.
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Mr.LethalWeapon

06-18-2005, 04:12 PM

I liked it, except for one logic flaw.....

HOW DID BATMAN
GET OUT OF THE SAFE???? You'll notice that he never actually locked himself inside the safe; he just slammed the door shut. At my old job, I had to turn a handle to bolt the safe's door shut.

Brainiac

06-18-2005, 04:40 PM

Meanwhile, back to your regularly scheduled "Riddler's Reform" talkback instead of BTAS vs. The Batman arguments... :D

I just watched this again on the new DVD set yesterday and I'd have to say that this is definitely the best Riddler appearnace on BTAS. As much as I liked his other ones, I felt that, first of all, his riddles were probably at their most complicated in this episode. I love the map coordinates being turned upside-down to spell Leslie. That's just great.

Also, we got to see another side of the Riddler, or at least another side to his arrogance. That mirror bit where he talks to himself only to find Batman standing there was classic. And Batman jumping out of the window only to show his cape being lit for a split second as lightning strikes is probably one of my favorite "Bat-exit" shots in the show.

I guess this episode just re-affirms this show's villains as primarily thought-provoking and multi-layered characters, and Riddler is no exception. His compulsion to give clues is what makes him interesting, and moreso than his comic book counterpart, IMO.

The only thing that actually bugs me is the ending. I can easily believe that Batman would be able to escape in the way that he describes (being that he trained with Zatara, etc.), but whenever I see this episode, I feel like they never really set up the safe in the sequence where the clock's ticking. If they would've included a brief shot of it, I think it would've helped to make it feel like a rational explanation, and less like a "Where did THAT come from?" It didn't really hurt the epsiode, but it always bugs me for some reason.

Otherwise, the ending is great, and Riddler's manic screaming is fantastic. John Glover's VO definitely helped flesh out the character in this regard.

-Brainiac

The Penguin

09-13-2005, 11:22 PM

Tonight at 12 midnight ET, Boomerang airs The Adventures of Batman & Robin episode, Riddler's Reform. If you do not have Boomerang, you are encouraged to follow along on disc 4 of your Batman: The Animated Series, Vol. 3 (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=141827) DVD set.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/riddlersreform/00r.jpg
Episode #079 - Riddler's Reform
Original Airdate - September 24th, 1994.

Upon his release from Arkham, the Riddler becomes an instant celebrity with his own line of toys and games. Soon he's rich, well-liked and happy, except for the fact that he's never managed to best Batman in a battle of wits. Realizing that he's still obsessed with beating the Dark Knight and that the obsession will lead to his downfall, the Riddler lures Batman into a death-trap puzzle to get rid of his opponent and end the riddle games.

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