Dang Americans!!!

[Frank White]

Just an observation, it seems in America animated series don't normally last that long, I mean Superman only got 56 eps, and Bats only got 112(I think) But in Japan most animes get at least 200 episodes, and thats a small number. Hey Timm and Co. how about 200 eps of JL?

[Watagashi]

Though, in a lot of Japanese series, such as the Gundam Series, Trigun, Nadesico, etc., there's only six to fifty-two episodes in them. Don't forget about that. :yakko:

[SirLemming]

Don't forget Cowboy Bebop - 26 episodes, and neither I nor the creators would have it any other way. The story clearly ends.

The thing is, shows like Batman Beyond are more episodic, so it's easier to have more episodes (redundant?), and it's more disappointing when they don't.

[metaphysician]

What anime series has 200+ episodes, *BESIDES* Dragonball Z??

[Chibi Kageboshi]

Saint Seiya does

[Squall]

Well, if you think about it, the Dini/Timm DC Universe has worked out in much the same way that many popular anime series have in Japan. Consider:

The "Dragonball" Universe consists of Dragonball and Dragonball Z.

The "Gundam Wing" Universe consists of Mobile Suit Gundam, Gundam Wing, 08th MS Team, and Gundam 0083.

The "Robotech" Universe had three different generations (whose individual names escapes me at the moment).

And the "Dini/Timm DC Universe" has Batman: TAS, Superman: TAS, Justice League, and Batman Beyond! :D

And if you add it all together:

B:TAS... 110 episodes, 2 movies
S:TAS... 54 episodes
JL......... 52 episodes guranteed (so far)
BB........ 52 episodes, 1 movie
----------------------------------------------------
TOTAL EPISODES... 268, plus 3 movies

268 episodes and 3 movies is a LOT, and that's not considering Justice League getting a 3rd Season (or more!), or future projects in the Dini/Timm DC Universe. And, for the sake of argument, I didn't count The Zeta Project or Static Shock either...

So, with the notable exception of Dragonball Z, many of these other famous Japanese anime series that lasted 200+ episodes did so as a collage of their individual TV shows in the same "Universe," in much the same way that B:TAS, S:TAS, JL, and BB works now. :)

[GL2k2]

Squall is actually right. That does count as a very long epic storyline. Which is one of the reasons why continuity is so important.

I mean this isn't Dragonball Z where you are literally forced to watch the episodes before to understand what the hell going on, but still, if you watch Superman that's exactly the feeling you got. My friend onced taped "Apocalypse... Now!" and the episode where Parasite and Live Wire team-up. He was drawn into the storylines wanting to know what happened before, yet it really didn't need too much explaining. They sorta explained themselves.

The thing is these series don't go by a bible. I don't think anyway. If Justice League goes by a bible, I'd be surprised. At this point the only legacy story string its leaving are the yet-to-be-introduced Injustice gang. They are felt in episodes like "Brave and Bold" and the upcoming "Fury". Just as Darkseid was felt in his respective stories in STAS. I think Justice League needs to go on for a little more than the respective 3-5 seasons. Because these stories are huge, and if there is to be a much bigger story tying them together, then we will need more episodes. All we can do to support this is to keep the ratings up.

[Naraht]

Also, Japan has alot more animation.....cause it takes up less space (You can stack animators...you can't stack large soundstages...[well, you could..but it wouldn't be very safe])

Here in the states, we get the successful series...the unsuccessful are locked away, never to be seen again...


=O

[Jimmy Kustes]

Originally posted by metaphysician
What anime series has 200+ episodes, *BESIDES* Dragonball Z??

I think Pokemon has like a bajallion episodes. But I am not a Pokemaster, ask Dr. Belch...

[SimonMoon5]

It could be worse. It could be like British TV shows, which often will have *six* half-hour episodes per season.

[Frank White]

Sailor Moon got 200, and DBZ actually got 300 all together. But anyway I wish JL was like that, with the different "sagas" being line-up changes and new villians.

[oranthal]

City Hunter has around 150. Urusei Yatsura also has around that much if not more.

[SimonMoon5]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that almost every really long anime series is based on a really long manga series. It is easy to translate a really long manga series into a really long anime series, since you don't have a lot of work to do as far as coming up with plots, characterization, etc, since it's already there in the manga for you. Usually only minor changes are made going from manga to anime (like giving characters different hair colors so that you can more easily tell them apart).

This is completely different from the way that the JLA (and Batman Beyond and S:TAS and even B:TAS) work. They can't (or at least won't) start at the beginning and then do each story that was ever done in the comics. They aren't going to be slavishly consistent with the comics material (unlike the way anime based on manga mostly is). Thus, they have to rework everything, making it much harder to create anything worthwhile, since they actually have to rewrite each story that they choose to ripoff, or write a brand new story without ripping off any comics story.

In some ways, this is good. Nobody would care about B:TAS if it had started off with the very first comics Batman story, and then the second, and then the third... since those stories really weren't that great by modern standards. In other ways, this is not so good. Characters have to start off as "new" (except Superman and Batman), but they also have to be the current version from the comics whenever possible (thus, Flash is Wally, not Barry), which makes for weird juxtapositions.

[GL2k2]

If BTAS started off with the original books we'd all be discussing Justice League through telepathic mail in our sixties and seventies in the year 2042 while piloting our hover-cars. No way I'd wait that long. It is better this way in the long run for classic characters like these. I can see American animation doing that to something like Cerebus, or a comic strip based series like Peanuts or something, but not a comic book. It would be just too much to swallow and would eventually be cancelled anyway.

The best way to do a cartoon series in American I guess is the episodic route. But some cartoons like Mighty Max, Superman, Gargoyles, Thundercats, Silverhawks, etc. have had a novel approach to their series, giving it a beginning and an end, something that few television shows period do. If this was a good twenty so years ago, a lot of shows cancelled would get no chance for an ending. I can't believe "Married... With Children" didn't get an ending.

We are lucky enough to have some sense of continuity between the series. It's not characters are re-introduced to others, and such. So, this is better than worse.

[mbaker]

268 episodes, and 2 movies. Wow! You put them all together, and you've got one heck of A series. (I guess "World's Finest, and "Secret Origins" don't count since they're actually three part episodes, but they're good movies in my book.) Now just for fun, how many Superfriends episodes have there been?

[Squall]

Well, according to the Superfriends Archive,

http://fantasia.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Doug/

there were 80 episodes of Superfriends total. But this number may be misleading, because some of those "episodes" weren't actually half-hour episodes, but 10-minute or 15-minute shorts. That falls well short of our 268 episodes (and counting!) + 3 movies that our beloved Dini/Timm DC Universe has given us! :D

And there's a good reason for this. Because, according to Seanbaby's Superfriends website,

http://www.seanbaby.com/

(Note: All images on this website are Rated G, but the text is Rated R! It's hilarious, though!)

Superfriends was a terrible, train wreck of a TV show! It treated the DC Universe like one big ridiculous joke, not real science fiction! :rolleyes:

[mbaker]

In the 80 Superfriends episodes, are you counting the "Legendary Superpowers show", and "The Super Powers Team: Galactic Guardians" in the list as well? Please let me know. By the way, Seanbaby's Superfriends site is hystarical! I love how they make sarcastic points about how bad Superfriends was.

[Squall]

Yep, I included all incarnations of the Superfriends Universe in that number as a collage in a total package, just as I added together all four Dini/Timm DC Universe TV shows together as a collage in a total package. :)

You know, it seemed like more episodes to me too before I actually sat down and counted them... it must be because they reran each episode 1,000 times apiece. :rolleyes:

[Toddman]

The Super Friends website that is linked above is pretty cool, but I don't think that the episode guide is 100% complete.

Plus it's not very clear how many actual episodes there are, as opposed to individual stories. For example, the 84-85 season looks like there are 15 episodes, but in fact there were only eight. All but two episodes had two stories contained in a single half-hour show.

There seems to be a much more thorough Super Friends index at this site:

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/tv/episode-guides/t-friends.html

Here is a quick rundown of the number of episodes listed on that site:

Super Friends 1973-74.....16 one hour eps

All-New Super Friends Hour 1977-78.....16 one hour eps (three 10 min shorts and one half-hour story)

Challenge of the Super Friends 1978-79.....16 half-hour eps

World's Greatest Superfriends 1979-80.....23 half-hour eps

And here is the important omission from the other guide.....

1980-81.....22 ten-minute shorts (starring 2-3 Super Friends)

1981-82.....15 shorts

1982-83.....24 shorts

Then on to
SF: The Legendary Super Powers Show 1984-85..... 8 half-hour eps (six episodes featured two 15 minute stories, two episodes had half-hour tales)

Super powers Team: Galactic Guardians 1985-86..... 8 half-hour eps (six were full half-hour adventures, two episodes had two 15 min. stories)

By that count there were 87 complete episodes (not including the shorts made from 1980-1983). However, that can be broken down further to 16 one-hour stories, 63 half-hour stories, 8 15-minute stories, and a whopping 109 10-minute stories.

So all together there was almost 88 hours of programming. If that was averaged out to one half-hour per show, that would equal about 175 1/2 episodes.

Sorry if that was too long-winded, but I'm with you guys, I was sure there were more than 80 episodes of the good-old Super Friends.

Toddman

[optimuslives]

All the people that sell bootleg sets on the auction sites list the total at 209 eps for the complete set

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by Frank White
Just an observation, it seems in America animated series don't normally last that long, I mean Superman only got 56 eps, and Bats only got 112(I think) But in Japan most animes get at least 200 episodes, and thats a small number. Hey Timm and Co. how about 200 eps of JL? To be fair, most anime are planed to have 26 episodes (2 13 episode long seasons) or in some cases 52 episodes. But as it's been pointed out, the longer anime series are either: (a) adapted from a long running manga, (b) multiple series "pasted" together, or (c) insanely popular and continue, after the manga author has moved on to other things, because the series is insanely popular.


So, let's take a look at some of the longer running North American animated shows:

Batman:TAS -- 109 eps, 2 movies
Superman -- 54 eps
Batman Beyond -- 52 eps, 1 movie
and at least 54 episodes of JL
--------------------------------------
269 episodes, 3 movies

Counting --
Zeta 26 eps
and Static Shock -- 26 eps, with the possibility of more
--------------------------------------------------------------------
321 episodes, 3 movies...and more coming.


Gargoyles -- 65
The Goliath Cornices -- 13
--------------------------------
78 episodes


Men In Black -- 54 episodes


Exo-Squad -- 52 episodes


Transformers -- 100, and the movie
Beast Wars -- 52
Beast Machines -- 26
Armada -- 52 (episodes in production)
------------------------------------------------
230 episodes and a movie


The Simpsons -- 296 episodes (with at least two more seasons coming) + 48 shorts


The Real Ghostbusters -- 134
Extreme Ghostbusters -- 39
----------------------------------------------------
173 episodes


Thundercats -- 130


Spiderman: TAS -- 65
Spiderman Unlimited -- 13
----------------------------------
78 episodes


Voltron -- 72
Voltron: 3rd Dem -- 26
-----------------------------------
98 episodes


X-Men: TAS -- 76 episodes


GI Joe -- 103, 1 movie
GI Joe: Extreme ( :mad: ) -- 26
-------------------------------------------
129 episodes & a movie


The Flintsones -- 164


The Jetsons -- 75


Scooby-Doo -- Too Damn Many :p


Silverhawks -- 65


He-Man -- 130
She-Ra -- 100
New He-Man -- 65
-------------------------------------
295 episodes


And there are a lot more, especially from the 80's, when shows were designed with 65, 85, or 100 episodes for syndication in mind. But there have also been a ton of failed shows with less than 13 episodes. The major difference between those failed NA shows and the short Japanese shows being that the Japanese planed for only 13 (usually) where as the NA show was canceled.

Basically I'd say that people think there are tons of long running animes because those tend to make it on TV stateside over the 13 and 26 episode series because of the larger number of episodes, when in fact the 100+ episode anime in Japan is the exception, not the rule. However I think that it all averages out, both here and in Japan.



EDIT: yes, I know there's a slant in there towards action-animation, but that's what I like... :p

[Wumbo]

i now understand why they call you mr obsession

[mbaker]

Here's A fun fact. Alan Burnett worked on the "Superpowers Team" for Hanna-Barbera as A story editor.

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by Wumbo
i now understand why they call you mr obsession They call me Mr. O. I call my self Mr. Obsession. At least I'm honest about it. :D



And what I posted above, that was all off the top of my head. :p

[Squall]

What? You don't watch Duck Tales or Darkwing Duck? :D

"Here's a fun fact. Alan Burnett worked on the "Superpowers Team" for Hanna-Barbera as a story editor."

...and, while on the "Superfriends" staff, he learned what NOT to do when making a cartoon about superheroes! :D
That's why we don't see those terrible mistakes repeated on "Justice League"... :)

[mbaker]

Yes I do watch DuckTales, and Darkwing Duck.

[Koggit]

I'm sick of anime being stero-typed into what plays on American television, so I won't get into that. I'd end up flaming some-one on accident if I did.

Doraemon is 2000+ episodes and still running, but most of the episodes are only 10 minutes long.

[Squall]

MBaker, I was playfully asking Mr. Obsession "What? You don't watch Duck Tales or Darkwing Duck? :D" because he seemed to have every cartoon I've ever seen and/or liked, except for those two. :p I'm sure he has seen them, and I'm especially sure you've seen them, since Launchpad McQuack is your avatar! :) I hope you didn't think I was picking on you or anything. It was just a joke whose timing was off! :p Sorry about that!

"Doraemon is 2000+ episodes and still running, but most of the episodes are only 10 minutes long."

I've never even heard of this cartoon! What's it about?

By the "1/2 hour of cartoon footage (with commercials) = 1 episode" formula we've been using, Doraemon has had 666+ episodes so far. Man, that's evil! ;)

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Squall
"Here's a fun fact. Alan Burnett worked on the "Superpowers Team" for Hanna-Barbera as a story editor."

...and, while on the "Superfriends" staff, he learned what NOT to do when making a cartoon about superheroes! :D
That's why we don't see those terrible mistakes repeated on "Justice League"... :)

That would be nice, but Burnett is not on the JL staff. :(

[Koggit]

Originally posted by Squall
I've never even heard of this cartoon! What's it about?

By the "1/2 hour of cartoon footage (with commercials) = 1 episode" formula we've been using, Doraemon has had 666+ episodes so far. Man, that's evil! ;)

It's a childrens anime along the lines of My Neighbor Totoro and Hello Kitty. One of those intended for tiny toddlers but ends up with a fairly large fan-base of all ages. You can find out more about it here (http://www.mit.edu/people/rei/MANGA/Doraemon.html).

It's been #1 childrens show in Japan for over 10 years now. It's about about equal to Detective Conan in the "Pump-out-episodes-fast-without-concern-for-quality" catergory.