View Full Version : Hajime no Ippo manga discussion: Ippo vs. Woli (SPOILERS)
SigmasonicX
01-25-2010, 11:12 PM
Perhaps it's a bit improper for me to make this topic solely to discuss this horrible, horrible, fight, but whatever. If this becomes popular, I'm sure it can be continued to be used as the general manga topic.
Let me explain what makes this fight so bad:
Ippo is the Japan boxing champion in his weight class. Despite this, in most of his fights he's treated as the underdog and wins through an ass pull, and people really wanted a fight where Ippo just wrecks his opponent, showing why he's the champion. Along comes Woli, and at the start of the fight, Ippo indeed wrecks his ****. The fans are pleased. Then, Woli turns the fight around and starts beating the crap out of Ippo, and from then on, Ippo is completely unable to land a hit, and this has been going on for several chapters now. Fans are angry. To add to this, everyone watching is constantly commenting about how Woli is a fighting genius, despite being only 17 (while Ippo is in his twenties now), and it's revealed that he learned how to fight solely by playing with monkeys and has no formal training (and he has only fought in three official matches before this fight), and Woli himself has a constant smug look on his face.
Though really, you can only truly grasp the horribleness of this fight if you just read it yourself. At least, read the latest chapter with what I said above in mind.
... Truth be told, I mainly made this topic for these pictures.
First of all, the original (http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7506/trollyl.jpg)
One (http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7066/woliowns.jpg)
Two (Death Note spoilers) (http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/169/ryuzakiwoli.jpg)
Three (first one that I'd call brilliant) (http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7295/93499811.jpg)
Four (Naruto spoilers) (http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4985/172c.jpg)
Five (http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2922/ttgw.jpg)
Six (http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3748/seacat.jpg)
Seven (http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2865/narutowutthe.jpg)
Eight (http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7381/ftwoli.jpg)
Nine (Naruto spoilers) (http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7134/woligan.jpg)
Ten (my favorite, if only for the unexpected reference) (http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3545/woli.jpg)
All taken from a GameFAQs thread.
I love Ippo to death (it's the reason I got into fighting), but yeah, this fight sucks. After the genius that was Miyata vs. Randy Boy Jr, Ippo is basically turned into the Naruto of his manga. Sure his name's in the title. He still seems to be winning by pure luck instead of skill.
I wouldn't be totally surprised if this fight ended with a Woli knockout. I make jokes about how inhumanely long Ippo is, but the guy we've been seeing would be absolutely crushed by Ricardo. (who is best described as Julio Ceasar Chaves meets Sosuke Aizen)
SigmasonicX
01-25-2010, 11:31 PM
Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind that Ippo will somehow win, but it really seems like the manga-ka is trying to make everyone angry, especially with the latest chapter spoilers:
The round ends with Ippo just barely tapping Woli, and Ippo's face is incredibly messed up when he goes back to the bench. However, he's smiling because he actually managed to touch Woli, and he thinks to himself that he'll just slowly move up from there.
It's just sad to see a world-ranked fighter, and the main character nonetheless, act like that when fighting a newcomer.
All 3 of Ippo's fights with the other national champions have been bad. Scratch J was probably the best one, but Gedo and now Woli...
At least Scratch J made sense because he was a returning character, one who was hyped early in his career. Gedo's inane trick (Protip, a boxing glove with nothing solid in it is about 8-12 oz of padding, a sharp slap if you will) was a way of hyping the Randy Boy fight. Worse than that is still Woli though.
Wasn't this addressed a while back? Ippo was looking so pathetic that everyone wanted a crack at him, but he was able to completely annihilate one opponent to get his cred back. Since then though, he's looked even weaker if possible.
I must say, up until the point that Miyata hit Randy with that lightning fist and Randy was literraly "blinded by teh light (of the lightning)", I thought that fight was okay, but dam, after that punch things have gotten ridiculous.
This series totally jumped the shark with Woli, the author must be in serious need of ideas if he had to bring out freaking Tarzan to kick Ippo's, the Guy just isn't human, makes me afraid of the kind of bs he has in store for Martinez, if Ippo even gets there (the Guy is still getting pwned by guys who don't even know how to box... Woli).
To put things in perspective for those of you new to Ippo...
You know how people complain about One Piece being long? Ippo is approaching 900 chapters with no end in sight. The last time Ippo fought the hyped final opponent in a public spar, he was brutalized with nothing but a jab. Do you know how big the skill difference is to be able to do that? It'd be like entering a basketball tournament and LeBron's playing.
At this point, he's running out of ideas. Ippo is coming off as Naruto if he was a pro boxer. Which makes Miyata Sasuke. Lord knows it's only a matter of time before we get a ninja boxer.
GWOtaku
01-26-2010, 11:16 AM
It sounds worse to me...Naruto's actually taken down an overwhelmingly powerful opponent (with some spiritual / inner monologue guidance, true) and has fought some battles that were at least decent, whereas from what I'm hearing Ippo's almost always on the edge of losing. Sorry to hear how it's going, I hope it turns around eventually. The idea of this opponent kicking butt thanks to watching monkeys is rather hard to swallow, I must say. I mean, really? I guess drunken boxing was off-limits for the comic or something.
garfield15
01-26-2010, 11:21 AM
Nine pages? Seriously?
The idea of this opponent kicking butt thanks to watching monkeys is rather hard to swallow, I must say. I mean, really?
Well, he basically grew up playing with monkeys since he was young (like Tarzan) and has monkey like agility. When we first saw him he was in a video where he was literally swinging from trees (like a monkey).
Well, he basically grew up playing with monkeys since he was young (like Tarzan) and has monkey like agility. When we first saw him he was in a video where he was literally swinging from trees (like a monkey).
Because that makes so much more sense.
This isn't Ring ni Kakero where boxing is treated as a setting for Saint Seiya esque battles. This is a manga that prided itself on realism and attention to detail. To go this route is as close as we've gotten to the dethroning moment of suck since the Hajime no Emo chapters. The only good thing that's come out of this was a hilarious nature PSA chapter from Aoki and Kimura.
Edit- You know what would be an awesome precedent? Sendo vs. the one Japanese southpaw. The guy was being a jerk and winning through tricks, but then Sendo turned it on and gave the guy such a beatdown that he was terrified of ever fighting again. I would love nothing more than for Woli to be beaten into retirement.
garfield15
01-28-2010, 05:34 PM
Oh yeah, it's a meme now (http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8416/captainbroken.jpg)
New chapter's out and predictably, Ippo's putting up all the offense of a four year old girl.
God this fight is annoying! And of course, there's no new chapter next week either.
This is supposed to be the guy that won the JBA national title? Are we really supposed to believe that the Japanese boxing system, the same one that put out the Kaneda brothers, is really that pathetic?
That was pretty bad, especially with Ippo being all happy that he finally managed to merely touch Woli (while his face is all messed up).
Grenzer
02-04-2010, 12:00 AM
This is what happens when you draw a story out for too long. 900 chapters? Hajime no Ippo is going to be twenty-years old this month, and it's covered a only a fraction of it's main character's development arc.
Morikawa should realize he's not going to live forever. A lot of these shonen manga writers should realize that as well. The only one who seems to be able to see the big picture and drive his story in the right direction is Oda, but even he's not perfect in this regard. Toriyama is still the king of focused plot as far as I'm concerned. Too bad no one else seemed to learn that critical lesson from him.
I'm being honest here. It's this excessive padding that has undercut so many great mangas over the past decade. Sometimes less is more, and a completed story is better than one that peters out halfway through.
New chapter's out and well, I lament the decline of this manga, chapter by chapter.
Ippo, battered and bruised, promises his corner that he's going to hit Woli 5 times? Seriously?
Meanwhile, Woli goes to his corner, pretty much saying he could finish Ippo off at any time and since Ippo's putting up all the defense of a two year old, this is the round where he'll knock him out.
Ippo realizes everyone's making fun of him, but concedes that Woli is a genius and he loves what he does.
And just as the round starts, Woli jumps off the TOP ROPE towards Ippo, ready to end the fight.
This guy is making Naruto look like Gatsu.
Yeah, woli should just join the WWE if hes going to be jumping of the top ropes and stuff, hed fit in just fine over there, this is simply a mockery of boxing right here.
garfield15
02-24-2010, 08:09 AM
I was just about to ask "Can you even do that in boxing? That has to be breaking some rule"
I was just about to ask "Can you even do that in boxing? That has to be breaking some rule"Probably one of those "its never been done, so theres no rule regarding it" situations.
I was just about to ask "Can you even do that in boxing? That has to be breaking some rule"
It's normally not possible, but leaving the ring (which this would be) is considered a foul in boxing and MMA.
GWOtaku
02-24-2010, 09:15 AM
On the bright side, it might be nice if that five hit promise translates into Woli being defeated with that many blows or less.
Of course, I'm totally observing from the outside in and lacking context besides what is in this thread, so I could be out to lunch. But hey, something's gotta give eventually.
The context of the chapter seems to imply Ippo has given up all hope of winning and wants to touch him, not necessarily hit hard, in the hopes of gaining some momentum. Meanwhile, Woli lands at will. It's like watching a top fighter suddenly collapse in his performance as age catches up with him (Nougeria, *sniff*), except Ippo's supposed to be in his early twenties.
Well, I've been skimming through the manga series and yeah...I can see some point what some of you guys are talking about. When I saw Woli hanging on the ropes, I did said to myslef "Hmmm, this doesn't feel right".
Just when you thought the current story arc (And Ippo's dignity) couldn't sink any lower, the new chapter comes out.
Well, Ippo continues to get hit at will by what the manga is essentially describing as a speedster. He's able to sneak in 5 body blows, and smiles...right as he's about to go down for the count. Meanwhile, Woli doesn't even look winded.
Yeah, that's the entire chapter. Woli beating up on Ippo, who smiles at the fact that he at least tapped his body.
Woli was literraly running circles around ippo in the begining of that chapter, like the Flash... hes already beyond human capabilities, and its ridiculous.
garfield15
03-01-2010, 08:11 AM
Just saying that some of the pages had Woli making punches at incredibly awkward angles. Like this one had him leaning back and somehow hooking Ippo twice.
Just saying that some of the pages had Woli making punches at incredibly awkward angles. Like this one had him leaning back and somehow hooking Ippo twice.Woli is super human, the angles in which he punches dont matter in the slightest when your a monkey man.
And now, with his thoughts on the chapter, Morbo.
http://www.gnorb.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/morbo.jpg
Boxing does not work that way!
Thank you Morbo.
Well, the fight is almost officially over. And the manga has now officially jumped the shark.
Ippo had apparently been trying to soften the blows by relaxing his knees, however, just when he thought he had an advantage, Woli once again effortlessly dodges a punch and floors Ippo, and the chapter ends with the towel about to be thrown in.
An interesting little footnote notes in the first two pages how idiotic it seemed for Ippo to have beaten two national champs but be utterly destroyed by a 17 year old with extremely little training.
garfield15
03-14-2010, 08:59 PM
This is actually kind of sad to watch.
That last panel had to have hurt bad.
This is actually kind of sad to watch.
That last panel had to have hurt bad.
This whole fight is basically Pacquiao vs. Clottey x 1000. Ippo is being utterly clowned.
Woli's coach is loving this, hes all like "Kamogawa you bastard, you beat my boy hawk with Takamuras natural talent, now the tables have turned, muhuhahahahaha".
Yeah, if Ippo actually finds a way to win this itd be just ridiculous.
I don't know why I'm still reading this, but the fight continues still, with a rather...odd message from the author.
Ippo comes out swinging and missing. That's literally the whole chapter.
Except for a rather interesting and depressing conversation with Aoki, Kimura and Takamura (Takamura I'm assuming representing the author) Aoki wonders what the hell's the point of training if there's some uber-talented guy out there that can win without a sweat? Takamura's answer?
There is no point, give up.
Normally I'd laugh at this, but...I dunno. It seems more horribly depressing than anything.
Man, this manga has been pushing this "genius" and "natural talent" angle for a while now, and honestly it annoys me greatly.. one of the reasons i dont like Itagaki (he wins matches on natural talent alone).
Man, this manga has been pushing this "genius" and "natural talent" angle for a while now, and honestly it annoys me greatly.. one of the reasons i dont like Itagaki (he wins matches on natural talent alone).
I know Morikawa was a friend of a JBA champion who never fought for a world title due to a freak accident (and described it in his memoir- "Pride of a Beaten Dog.") Maybe that's bitterness right there.
Eh, i dislike how things are apparently turning around in chapter 889, Woli cant use his superhuman dodging ability because of Ippo's main character hax or something, or whatever it is thats going on with Woli's legs.
garfield15
03-22-2011, 06:23 PM
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1189/1300828411037.jpg
Oh snap....
Divinenega
03-22-2011, 06:37 PM
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1189/1300828411037.jpg
Oh snap....
That face scared the crap out of me when I first saw it:eek:
Thats definitely a new expression for Ippo, has the beast been unleashed?
Jacob T. Paschal
03-22-2011, 07:35 PM
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1189/1300828411037.jpg
Oh snap....
And then I decided to check this series out...
...if anyone can catch me up, from what I've been able to tell, Ippo eventually beat that Woli guy y'all were talkin' 'bout last year. Was it satisfying?
And then I decided to check this series out...
...if anyone can catch me up, from what I've been able to tell, Ippo eventually beat that Woli guy y'all were talkin' 'bout last year. Was it satisfying?Well, basically Ippo got super super lucky taht he got Woli in a situation hes never experienced before because of his lack of experience and barely defeated him, they all acknowledge that if they had a rematch Ippo would be obliterated, it was total nonsense of course.
garfield15
03-22-2011, 08:44 PM
Was it satisfying?
.....
No. Honestly, no it wasn't.
This current arc seems pretty good though.
Jacob T. Paschal
03-22-2011, 08:49 PM
.....
No. Honestly, no it wasn't.
This current arc seems pretty good though.
Hmm...interesting. Well, I can't wait to see this smug bastard get his.
Ippo looks like a serial killer. The general vibe is that this will be his last match at the national level before the world stage.
That being said, there hasn't been any word from the author since the quake. I hope he's OK.
Grave
04-03-2011, 05:09 PM
I should probably start reading this series from where New Challenger left off but I wouldn't even know where to begin with that so I decided to just go with the latest chapters.
That definately was a crazy look on Ippo's face. I'm so used to the frail image I didn't think the guy had it in him to have a look like that. However, as curious as I am with where the creator is going with this, he/she is taking entirely too long to even get to the fight. I think I've been reading about this guy that I don't even know for about 3-4 weeks now. Then again I don't even know how long things are dragged in the manga. I do know it didn't take too long to get to the fights in the anime though. Might have to fill me in on this.
Jacob T. Paschal
04-12-2011, 08:26 PM
Boy, Morikawa sure is one to lead by the balls...this' an entire volume's worth of chapters in locker room build up! >_<
Grave
04-20-2011, 04:28 PM
If this ever gets animated I certainly hope it won't take this long for the fight to actually start. This is some crazy draggy-ness here. Don't get me wrong, Morikawa is doing quite a job in getting me anticipated but come on, is a lot of the draggy-ness even necessary?
SigmasonicX
04-28-2011, 02:53 PM
And we literally got a chapter where nothing happened.
This fight looks like it's going to have just as much trolling as Ippo vs. Woli, except in a completely different way.
Jacob T. Paschal
04-28-2011, 02:54 PM
And they say Gokû takes too much time to power-up. ;p
EDIT: By the way, does a mod want to change the title of the thread now? :p
EroSennin
04-28-2011, 06:38 PM
lol we've been trolled 2 weeks in a row now. Will it go to 3?
Jacob T. Paschal
06-05-2011, 10:33 AM
Oh wow, Ippo took that blow, but recovered from an insane angle. Now his foe is in for it!
Good God, this series is slower than Bleach.
Gold Guy
06-05-2011, 12:15 PM
I haven't read the series yet, but from reading the comments, I can totally see why this isn't licensed.
Then again, I don't mind drawn-out fights (I watch DBZ and Bleach!) but this sounds too much even for me. A few people want a sequel anime, but with this pacing, a sequel would have to wait years to adapt at a good pace.
It's not licensed because it's The Simpsons of manga. Hell, I think it predates The Simpsons.
I really hope this is the last fight before Ippo fights world ranked boxers. Everything so far has implied that he's heading for a world title shot after this.
Jacob T. Paschal
06-05-2011, 01:06 PM
It's not licensed because it's The Simpsons of manga. Hell, I think it predates The Simpsons.
I really hope this is the last fight before Ippo fights world ranked boxers. Everything so far has implied that he's heading for a world title shot after this.
No, Kochira Katsushika-ku Kameari Kôen-mae Hashutsujo is the The Simpsons of manga...with 1678 chapters and growing.
Grave
06-05-2011, 02:41 PM
I haven't read the series yet, but from reading the comments, I can totally see why this isn't licensed.
Then again, I don't mind drawn-out fights (I watch DBZ and Bleach!) but this sounds too much even for me. A few people want a sequel anime, but with this pacing, a sequel would have to wait years to adapt at a good pace.
I don't mind fights that're dragged out either, but from what I've read of this fight alone, it's the build-up that's terrible. I think it took about 3-5 chapters just for Ippo to get out of the locker room and probably a couple more just to see the 1st punch thrown. I can appreciate building up the suspense but that's taking it way too far. I don't know how this is compared to the anime but the anime moved at a nice pace and to be honest I'd rather see this animated. (It's just too bad that New Challenger kind of ruined that experience for me) I'd probably be able to handle the pacing a lot more than reading it.
The inevitable anime adaptation will be very good, but I credit that to Madhouse likely compressing these chapters to an intense degree. I figure that's why it's taking so long for them to make another season.
EroSennin
06-11-2011, 04:12 AM
Well it took 7 chapters for Ippo to throw the first punch but what a punch it was.
Jacob T. Paschal
06-11-2011, 10:02 AM
Now that looked like it hurt. I'm actually surprised we got a one-hit-KO from Makunou'ichi.
Bah Gawd, he killed him! He killed him!
If it wasn't clear before, it should be now. Ippo is clearly ready for the world stage. Road trip time!
No way.... imposible, Ippo easily defeated his opponent!!!??, inbelievable... thats never happened before to my memory.
Good stuff.
Jacob T. Paschal
07-16-2011, 07:35 PM
I caught up a little bit recently by watching New Challenger and the two films that before it. I have to say, I really like this series. Not only did they cast nearly every manly-man voice actor in Japan (I think only Ootomo, Gouri, and Genda were missing), the characters are all hilarious or genuinely sympathetic. I was in tears watching Date get the you-know-what knocked out of him by Martinez. Takamura's fight with Bryan Hawk was also very emotional. I really hope that third animated series comes soon, because I'm really excited to see what happens next.
As for the latest chapter, I'm glad to see Date is still around. I was in physical pain just hearing the sound effects of this guy getting the Hell knocked out of him, but seeing him continue to be involved with Ippo and friends makes for some fun hijinks and commentary. Takamura really messed up his fight, so I'm wondering how he's going to react now.
EroSennin
07-16-2011, 10:54 PM
I caught up a little bit recently by watching New Challenger and the two films that before it. I have to say, I really like this series. Not only did they cast nearly every manly-man voice actor in Japan (I think only Ootomo, Gouri, and Genda were missing), the characters are all hilarious or genuinely sympathetic. I was in tears watching Date get the you-know-what knocked out of him by Martinez. Takamura's fight with Bryan Hawk was also very emotional. I really hope that third animated series comes soon, because I'm really excited to see what happens next.
As for the latest chapter, I'm glad to see Date is still around. I was in physical pain just hearing the sound effects of this guy getting the Hell knocked out of him, but seeing him continue to be involved with Ippo and friends makes for some fun hijinks and commentary. Takamura really messed up his fight, so I'm wondering how he's going to react now.
That third series was announced 2 years by one of the VA but then I think it was changed to a movie and unfortunately we haven't heard anything since. I'm really hoping its still in the works but I'm not holding my breath.
As for the manga this last chapter is the best chapter since... well I cant even remember.
Jacob T. Paschal
07-30-2011, 07:43 PM
Hmm...chapter #945 is pretty interesting. Coach seems to be implying that Ippo still had hidden power. I think after Ippo's next defense he'll be heading to the world stage. As for Kojima, the poor guy's lost his memories of the fight. Wow, that was one mean blow.
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