Clone Saga

[Gyro]

What was so bad about the Clone Saga? I never read it, but the fans seem to have hated it. What was it about, and was wrong with it?

[Naraht]

I haven't read it either, but from what I do know...

Spiderman is cloned, and when they meet each other, the Clone descidedto become "Ben Riley" the Scarlet Spider...who had all of Pete's powers, plus he added Impact Webbing...balls of Web that would envelop enemies. (A Very Cool Use, that I wish Pete would use)

Anyway, things got weirder...and the clone was the real Pete, and Pete was the clone, and..

twas weird.

[CadaverousEyes]

It was a poorly handled gimmick which attempted to make Spider-Man more accessible. A lot of people also disagreed with the revelation that the Peter we knew for 20+ years was a clone. I'm surprised so many people believed that. So what else is new?

[The Green Hornet]

it was a story that had a lot of potential, and frankly brought one of my favorite comic book characters to life-- Scarlet Spider

oh and Ben's Spiderman costume was sooo cool

[Joe Wagner]

I agree it was an awesome story that had great potential and was actually pulled out of Pete's past. Unfortunately Marvel went clone happy and there were eventually three clones of Pete running around along with the massive droves of virtually mindless clones. The three were Kaine (still alive BTW), Spidercide and Ben Reily, the Spectacular, Amazing Scarlet Spider (one of my all time fave characters). I just wish Marvel would have realized people would have enjoyed the saga more if they would have stayed away from the whole Ben's the real one, now it's Pete - who knows who it is becuz Ben's dead now. Real shame to, he could have been great.

-Joe!

[Apache Chief]

The clone saga actually made me walk away from comics for several years - I was that disgusted with it. Easily the single greatest mistake Marvel ever made, and yes that includes NFL Superpro.

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by Apache Chief
The clone saga actually made me walk away from comics for several years - I was that disgusted with it. Easily the single greatest mistake Marvel ever made, and yes that includes NFL Superpro.

Ok I have to ask - did you walk away because you just didn't like the clone saga or did you walk away because you didn't like Ben as "the one, true Spider-Man"? I have to ask because the general consensus is that if Ben would have stayed the Scarlet Spider people wouldn't have minded him staying around and being a huge fan of 'ol Scarlet I would like to know what your opinion is.

-Joe!

[Apache Chief]

The whole premise bothered me. Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Period. It's just one of the essential comic book truths that you can't get away from. Superman is from Krypton, Batman's parents are dead, and Parker is the one and only Spider-Man. That's it. Clones as a concept are silly (Take that Lucas!) and, no offense, but "Scarlett Spider" is a lame name, and I never like that torn hood look. That's just my opinion of course.

[Joe Wagner]

Ben didn't even like the name of Scarlet Spider when he was deemed such by a reporter - but if Marvel would have kept Ben and Peter seperate, never once claiming that Ben was the "one, true Spidey" would you still have walked away or would you have followed the story until Ben either left or got his own book?

-Joe!

[Apache Chief]

Who can say? Other factors made me give up the habit (and it is!) for a while. (Read: $$$) Remember, this was also the period of embossed, foil covers and all that speculator nonsense, and I was just fed up with the medium. (I've since come back!)

To answer your question, I still don't think I would have been interested in the further adventures of Ben, whether in his own book or not. He would just be a copy (literally) of Spider-Man, and who needs that when you've got the real deal? Maybe you saw something in his charater that I didn't see.

Incindentally, I dig your avatar and think that other versions of Spider-Man can work. I loved 2099 (Doom especially) and I dig Ultimate Spidey. The improtant thing is that in any given continuity, there's only one Spider-Man and his uniquness is important. Hundreds of superheroes fly, but how many climb walls and swing on webs? He's one-of-kind, and Marvel never should have altered that part of the legend. Maybe I'm just thinking about it too much because I'm jazzed for the movie? (may 3rd, right?)

My spring-break just started, so I'm off to celebrate. Take it easy. AC

[killercroc]

Originally posted by Apache Chief
The clone saga actually made me walk away from comics for several years - I was that disgusted with it. Easily the single greatest mistake Marvel ever made, and yes that includes NFL Superpro.

That's when I quit buying comics also. I almost got started back a few months back, but they are so expensive now. I just can't afford to go to the comic store.

As for making Spiderman more accessible, I think we pretty much agree that they failed.

[CadaverousEyes]

Hundreds of superheroes fly, but how many climb walls and swing on webs?

Venom and Ezekiel. Unique, you say?

[Joe Wagner]

Apache Chief, I would tend to agree with you over the money issue - I remember picking up only a comic every other month or so and I didn't read a lot of the clone saga until it was almost over. When I first saw the premise of two Spidey's I hated the idea - I couldn't understand why Marvel had two spidey's running around. Than I started to pick up the back issues to find out who this second Spidey was - discovering that it was the clone that he defeated way back when.

In truth I thought the most appealing thing about the entire character was the fact you got to see what Pete might have become without MJ and without his Aunt May. We got to see a clone develop into his own character - his five years away from the city allowing him to create his own personality. It wasn't until he cut his hair and dyed it though that I thought wow, Pete finally gets a chance to spend time with his family and doesn't have to bear the entire responsibility of NYC. Overall though I think the most appealing concept of the entire saga was the bond that was eventually forged by Pete and Ben - Ben was no longer 'the clone', instead he became the brother that Pete never realized he had. Ben was no longer a clone, he was the man that defeated Venom in their first brawl - he became more than a simple clone, he became family - perhaps even Pete's best friend (after MJ of course).

I would have to consider Marvel's treatment of this character the easy way out. They could have found a way for Ben to leave and still let Pete carry out his life - let Ben move away to a city that needs a hero, one that other heroes refuse to acknowledge (almost like Marvel's Bludhaven) and let him contact his brother every once in a while. But no, they decided that since Wizard was clamoring for his head they would give it to them -perhaps the biggest cop-out in comics history. I miss the charactre of Ben Reily and hope that some day the sensational Scarlet Spider returns and this time sticks around, not as a clone but once again as Pete's 'lost' brother.

-Joe!

BTW - I agree Spidey and Doom 2099 kicked arse, as does Ultimate Spidey!

[Wumbo]

the whole clone saga actually brought me back into comics. now, before anyone starts launching tomatoes in my direction, let me explain. i stopped collecting comics a few years prior ($$$ :) ) and saw one of the covers to "maximum clonage" and was intrigued. i remembered reading the original spidey clone comics when i was a kid. i have been collecting again ever since. so the clone saga reawakend my interest in comics. and btw i agree that it wound up being poorly done. it had a lot of potential and i truely liked ben reilly as a character. making him the "real spidey" and then flip flopping a few months later didn't make a lot of sense. killing him off made less sense. he & kaine could have just gone off to plague each other and come back again some day when they had some new storylines in place. go figure.

[FLIPMODE]

I skipped tehe wholse Saga, Like most of my Marvel Expeirences, I find the universe to complicated to get into. And I like it when they Simplify things. Too many heros. Ok.

So in this Story, Pete is Spidey.
A Clone Comes.
Named Ben Riley.
Then it Turns Out Pete is the clone.
But BEN DIES?

So who was marvel trying to say we've been reading books about for 30 years? They ended it by implying that all this time, we've been reading about a Clone? And the "Real" Spiderman Died?
And where was Ben all those years?

Am I a little bit correct?

[CadaverousEyes]

No, Seward Trainer said that the Spidey we knew for "5 years" was a clone. Seward was a silly liar. There was some sort of Lost Years miniseries that explained Ben's whereabouts since the smokestack. When Ben died, he turned into dust, proving he was the clone after all. Fin.

[JLU Dude]

Norman Osborn was the puppeteer of the whole thing. His kidnapped Aunt May replaced her with an actress, whom faked "Aunt May's death" (Which that and a phone call & Anut May going to the Hospital prior to that set the whole thing off), he had Trainer, The Scriers, and The Jackal in his pocket, and was the old told releaved everything & killed Ben.

[Mr. Peabody]

I loved it, especially since they put it in Spider-Man the Animated Series. The villains were also great especially Jacal!