Japanese Romanization or English Translation

[Dark Spider]

This has been discussed at length at some places, so I decided to bring it here. I will use examples from DBZ to help things.

Japanese is a different language than ours. One of the main differences is that they have a different alphabet and sounds than our American language. Because of this, the dubbing companies go through the process of romanization. Romanization is trying to put the japanese letters (or sounds) into the roman alphabet (A, B, C, etc.). I'll take the example of the name Vegeta. The Kanji (japanese alphabet) for Vegeta, when romanized becomes Bejita.

What am I trying to get at. Well, some dubbing companies like to "edit" a romanized name so it can be normal to american standards. This is how the romanized name "Bejita" becomes "Vegeta". Well, some people don't like that way of things.

Most otaku (anime fanatics) prefer to use the romanized name for a character. They will cheerfully type a discussion about DBZ, using romanized names such as Kuririn and Buruma. Some people that prefer the translated names say that the otaku are crazy for doing that. Then the otaku are pissed and start bashing people.

Many issues were argued such as

-People feel they are getting closer to DBZ's japanese roots by using romanized names
-People are accostomed to which ever version they have been seeing or using all their life.
-People use the which ever version is the shortest. Andorid 17's romanized name is Jinzouningen 17. Would you use that or simply say Android.
-People are from America, so they should use the american name.

Which one do you prefer to use, Romanized or Americanized?

If you think this a stupid topic, you can also post that too.

[Koggit]

Great topic. I'm sick of all the dubbies that read names on websites and run aroud saying "There's no "L" in the Japanese language, so it's Piccoro, Kuririn, and Buroma." and stuff like that.

I use the Americanized version, because romanization is really only the first step through translation. Romanization is VERY inaccurate, and it's only spelled how it sounds, so everyone may spell it different. Americanized is also very inaccurate if translated from the romanized version, it's only accurate if translated to Korean, then American, which most dub companies do, so I usally go with whatever the dub companies call it.

At times, you'll find retarded name changes, such as "Shin Tenchi" into "Tenchi in Tokyo", instead of "New Tenchi". That's where I draw the line. I don't care how many dubbies won't know what I'm talking about, when I call it Tenchi in Tokyo I feel as if I'm supporting their choice of changing it.

In short, For the most part, I go with whatever the dub companies decide to translate it to, unless they change the name.

[TylerL]

If a show has obvious English names in it that have been "katananified", the translation should be the original English word. People who think saying "Bejita" or "Piccoro" is correct either live in Japan or have a strong need to be different, (regardless of accuracy) thus achieving "cool"ness.
I notice that nobody calls DB "DaRaGaN BaRu" (or something similar to that).

But Tyler, that's because it's spelled "Dragon Ball" in the show's opening!
...and "Buruma"'s shirt says Bulma, so why do you spell it differently?

If a word or phrase is translatable, it should be translated for subbing or dubbing.

...but Tyler, sometimes the translation sounds stupid and awkward like "Jewel of Four Souls". Saying "Shikon no Tama" sounds better!
...so...saying "Jewel of Four Souls" in the original Japanese version would sound better...especially since that would mean nothing to them? Just because something's foreign doesn't mean it's better.

[Sheamon]

Frankly, in the majority of the time its used by people to 'look cool'. Especially in the DBZ crowd, where a large amount of the fans are kids 10-15 discovering anime and japanese for the first time through DBZ. They think they look cool by saying stuff like 'Kuririn' and 'Bejita' when in actuality they're just looking like bigger dorks. This messageboard is in English. So speak in english!!! Its as simple as that. I myself have a pretty good knowledge of japanese and I've never, not once started speaking like a ubber cool lam0r (or should I say 'ubbero kooro ramoro? :p) in it when I'm at an english speaking board like this. Everyone else I know who loves the language does the same thing as I. Speaking in japanese out of context in an english language board makes you an immature loser in my eyes. As simple as that.

I suppose whats even worse is the glaring amount of mistakes that I see made when these ultra cool DBZ fans start talking in what they think is jap. :yawn:

[Ruffian]

Kanji is Japanese for Han Zi which means Chinese characters. So Kanji is the Chinese written language. Hiragana is the Japanese alphabet (which is derived from Chinese characters) and Katakana is another alphabet they use to spell out borrowed words from other languages, such as Chinese and English. Just some info, I don't mean to be pushy about detail. :)

Back on topic, I can understand the attention to detail on how things are spelled and should be spelled considering names if someone is very passionate about it. Nothing wrong there, really just preference. Me, I'm not so passionate about anime, and I really can only consider which spelling I prefer if I know both Japanese and English versions of the name. Then I could make a choice and sometimes I'll have a preference over a spelling and other times I'm fine with either one. For example in Robotech, I heard some people wishing the American version kept the names of the original Japanese names instead of giving them new ones or deriving English names from the Japanese. Lisa Hayes, first officer of the SDF-1, is Misa Hayase (?) in Japanese. In this case, I don't have a preference. If anything I think it's kinda cool how close the two look and sound. Some would argue in this case the change in the first name was just by one letter and that Lisa could have kept her name as Misa. Lisa... Misa... they both sound good to me.

I think the context the anime is in also is a good way to go in deciding whether to go for an English spelling or romanization. Definitely for ones that take place in historic settings in Japan I say stick to the original name. It keeps it authentic that way as far as storytelling goes. Robotech is a combination of 3 different series from Japan, an it's setting is more modern as well as taking place in various parts of the world, so liberties on the names I don't hold against because it doesn't ruin the feel to the story. They actually had some nice names too I thought.

[KingKoopa]

I use translated names, but not always the same translation the dubbing company gives. When the dubbing company completely screws up a name, like Frieza, I use what is a better translation, in this case, Freeza. But, Furiza, the direct rominazation, is just pointless.

[Naraht]

depends on the show, and the reason..

I use Krillan, Bulma, Vegita..
but I am more prone to use Usagi to Serina for Sailor Moon...

[RogueMartian]

I can understand many things to prefer when it comes to anime. Personally, the only things that ever bother me are gross misinterpretations of the script, something that DBZ is full of. But the English spellings are just fine for me. I spell names: Bulma, Yamcha, Krillin, etc. and I see no reason to try to romanize the original pronunciations. Especailly in cases like Bulma's, where her name is spelled in the series b-u-l-m-a. However, if it makes some otaku's feel all special and smart to romanize the original japanese names, more power to them. I won't do it though.

Of course there are cases, such as Sailor Moon and Cardcaptors, where the names are flat out changed. In this case, I can understand why many people would use the original names. Of course, in this case I probably use the english spelling as well, mostly because I don't know the names in Japanese.

[Dark Spider]

My take on this discussion is that I tend to use the english names of characters. This is mostly because I'm aware of my audience, who may not know who Yamucha,Tenshinhan and Turunkusu are (even though they are Yamcha,Tien, and Trunks). I may sometimes use words like Mirai or Chibi to differentiate between some characters (especially in DBZ), but I always include the meaning of the words at the end of my post in case someone doesn't understand. I may also use words if they sound cool (Tenkaichi Boudakai) and if they are the same in "Romanji" and English (Masenko)

I never do understand why some otakus go so far as to simply ignore someone's post, because they refer to Tien by that name. The otaku's go "Who's Tien?" like a stupid idiot.

I also don't understand why otaku's post such long romanized names, when they could simply say the simpler english name. Nobody will think bad of you because of it. Seriously, I'm reading posts like:

DBZ_Otaku
I really liked the match between Piccoro and Jinzouningen 17. They should really have fought at a Tenkaichi Boudakai where it would've been fair. Anyway, the best part of the match was when Piccoro fired his Makkansouppo at Jinzouningen 17 and it connected.

If I was a newbie to Dragonball, I would've been terrified of that post. I believe the otaku's are driving newbies away because of their lingo. It doesn't make any sense.

SIDE NOTES:
-Chibi means small or little and Mirai means future.

-All my source and the idea of this topic came from the Dragonball board at GameFAQs.

-The translated version of DBZ_Otaku's post is:
I really liked the match between Piccolo and Android 17. They really should've fought at a World Martial Arts Tournament where it would've been fair. Anyway, the best part of the match was when Piccolo fired his "Special Beam Cannon" at Android 17 and it connected.

[Sheamon]

DBZ_Otaku
I really liked the match between Piccoro and Jinzouningen 17. They should really have fought at a Tenkaichi Boudakai where it would've been fair. Anyway, the best part of the match was when Piccoro fired his Makkansouppo at Jinzouningen 17 and it connected.

-The translated version of DBZ_Otaku's post is:
I really liked the match between Piccolo and Android 17. They really should've fought at a World Martial Arts Tournament where it would've been fair. Anyway, the best part of the match was when Piccolo fired his "Special Beam Cannon" at Android 17 and it connected.

LoL! Thats hilarious. :p Frankly, I think you should refrain from naming anyone an otaku who talks like that. If you're experienced with DBZ then you should know enough to stop putting yourself off as a lam0r who intermixes japanese and english words. I can certainly understand using the japanese names for the various attacks because FUNI has a bad habit of giving them lame names, but calling the androids 'jinzouningen' and refusing to use the word 'l' portrays you as a newbie who wants to look 'cool'.

[Andy Mancini]

My girlfriend talks just like that! I think that she thinks that she's being "different" by saying the romanized version. Her insistance in calling the "World Martial Arts Tournament" the "Tenkaichi Budokai", "Tien" "Tenshinhan" and the Supreme Kai "Kaioshin" when she can't even pronounce them properly baffles me. Yes, it did bug me a bit when they changed "Mr. Satan" to "Hurcule", although I 100% agree their reasoning. In that case, you have to bend to the American audience a little. A perfect example of this outside of DB and DBZ is the game "Chrono Trigger". In the Japanese version of the game you fought Magus' three henchmen: Ketchup, Mayonaise, and Soy Sauce. In the US game, you fought Flea, Slash, and Ozzy. Now, judging by DB and DBZ animes and mangas, both sets of names fit Mr. Toriyama's sense of humor, and it's not like Square changed the name of anyone important. It's not like the following happened...

For my birthday last January, I got a mint condition, fully functional Nintendo from my brother. The first thing I did was haggle with a video store to buy their copy of"Dragon Ball", a "Zelda"-like game from the mid '80's. This game was brought to the US as "Dragon Power". The game followed the first twelve episodes pretty well, with some minor exceptions, of course (no Pilaf, you rescued a few nameks, Roshi asked Bulma for a sandwich instead of some skin, etc). The only thing that bothered me was the names. Here is a list of the names from "Dragon Power":

Goku - Goku (OK, that's the same...)
Bulma - Nora
Oolong - Pudgy
Yamcha - Lancer
Master Roshi - Hermit (Maybe that one is understandable...)

I can see the disgust of the okatus if they used these names throughout the show, but they didn't. I think they want something to complain about.

[TylerL]

Actually, the whole Mr. Satan thing is quite interesting.
In the Japanese version, he's known as "MiSuTa SaTaN" (again, approximation). Now, consider the fact that about 99% of the Japanese population doesn't know what that means in their native tongue.
...just like calling him "Oni-san" (or something along that line) in America probably wouldn't cause a controversy.

...now, I would've preferred FUNimation went with their original idea and called him Mr. Savage instead of Hercule (the French dub name), but that's a different story...

[ohmrbill]

Originally posted by TylerL
Actually, the whole Mr. Satan thing is quite interesting.
In the Japanese version, he's known as "MiSuTa SaTaN" (again, approximation). Now, consider the fact that about 99% of the Japanese population doesn't know what that means in their native tongue.
...just like calling him "Oni-san" (or something along that line) in America probably wouldn't cause a controversy.


Actually, 99% of the Japanese population DOES know what Mr. Satan means. You're forgetting that English is a required course for ALL students in Japan and that your average Japanese person knows a lot more of the English language than your average American knows of the Japanese language. Heck, if you've ever played a Japanese Gundam game, you'd see that 75% of it (just about all but the spoken dialogue) is already in English.

Well, that 99% is an exaggeration but you get the idea. :p

[etj4eagle]

I guess I would fall somewhere in the middle. Where a name obviously has an english base, then it should return to that base, Instead of trying to keep the romanjized version. (don't undrestand those who want to use serra instead of sailor and demando instead of diamond). Then for names that are japanese instead of imports they should remain as close as possible. However, at the same time the strictly romancized name should be cleaned up by removing unnecessary syllables/vowels. Hence Bulma is the cleaned up version of Buruma, which is an unfinished translation. And at the same time slight spelling changes of Ami->Amy and Rei-> to Ray are expected. However, I find it unacceptable when a dubbing company develops a name that has no relation to the original name (as in Makoto->Lita).

[ohmrbill]

BTW, Buruma = Bloomer, not Bulma. It's indented to go with the rest of the gag of their entire family all having names of undergarments (Briefs, Trunks, Bra, etc.).

I still say "Bulma," though. Simply because that's what I'm accustomed to saying.

[Koggit]

No, that's only a rumor. Bloomer was just what Goku called Bulma. Her name was Bulma, but Goku confused it with "Bloomer" a good bit in DB. Bloomer was a famous brand of under-garmants. Not name, nick-name. It pissed her off, too! :D

I don't think many of you understand the different translation processes. For Romanization, It goes from the Japanese charicters (Whatever kind the name may be), and is translated directly into the roman alphabet relying solely on sound. There's no set translation for certain charicters. Some may say this charicter should be translated into "Aku", while other'll argue and say it should be "Aro". It varies a large amount, thats why I hate when people call the Romanization the "Right" way.

Americanized can be one of two things, depicted from the Romanized form, which is what FUNi did, or translated into another laguage (Usally Korean), then English, which is the more accurate way used by most fan-subbers.

[SSJ_Gogeta]

Her name is Bulma. Not Bloomer (although Krillin did call her that once in the dub). I saw her damn name on her shirt! It was BULMA!

It might have been a mess up by Toriyama, but nevertheless it is her actual name in both the sub, and dub.

[DR. BELCH]

--the first time I heard the name "Bulma" I thought of the eating disorder bulimia (the "scarf-and-barf" syndrome). Well, she IS a thin little thing.... ;)

To say nothing of my "Kiyone" flub a few posts back.... :o

[KingKoopa]

See, the thing is, is that when they completely change the name, or just change it alot, I usually go with the original bit (like Tenshinhan). Same goes with Mr. Satan, and other things like that. Romanized isn't the way to go, but a proper translation is.

[SSJ_Gogeta]

Yeah I didn't get how they got Tien from Tenshinhan. Guess they wanted a short name.

As for Hercule, I don't mind the change. It fits him perfectly, and it gets him on TV.

I believe (As Tyler said earlier in this thread) FUNi wanted to go with Mr. Savage, but they decided to go with the French dubs Hercule.

[Dark Spider]

For my birthday last January, I got a mint condition, fully functional Nintendo from my brother. The first thing I did was haggle with a video store to buy their copy of"Dragon Ball", a "Zelda"-like game from the mid '80's. This game was brought to the US as "Dragon Power". The game followed the first twelve episodes pretty well, with some minor exceptions, of course (no Pilaf, you rescued a few nameks, Roshi asked Bulma for a sandwich instead of some skin, etc). The only thing that bothered me was the names. Here is a list of the names from "Dragon Power":

Goku - Goku (OK, that's the same...)
Bulma - Nora
Oolong - Pudgy
Yamcha - Lancer


I have that game too. I got it since it first came out in 1986. It was the very first Dragonball game ever. It had crappy translation. They changed all the major character's names, except for Goku. Goku looked like more like a monkey than a kid. They turned Bulma's underwear into sandwiches. The music was sub-par. Worst game in the franchise, in my opinion...

[kiddiesunshine]

i had the game in '87, but had no clue of it's origin.
back on topic, just because buruma/bulma has her name written in some way doesn't mean it'll be spoken as such. the fact still stands: the japanese have no L's. so, how can they say bulma? buruma? buuma? we know the answer. as an otaku, i prefer the pronunciation closest to raw japanese. i like japanese and show it whenever possible. like many otaku, i hate americanization, especially when names like "hercule" pop up. isn't that french? couldn't we get a name from at least our own hemisphere?

[ohmrbill]

Originally posted by kiddiesunshine
i had the game in '87, but had no clue of it's origin.
back on topic, just because buruma/bulma has her name written in some way doesn't mean it'll be spoken as such. the fact still stands: the japanese have no L's. so, how can they say bulma? buruma? buuma? we know the answer. as an otaku, i prefer the pronunciation closest to raw japanese. i like japanese and show it whenever possible. like many otaku, i hate americanization, especially when names like "hercule" pop up. isn't that french? couldn't we get a name from at least our own hemisphere?

Well technically there is no "r" either. That particular sound has no true English equivalent and can be "translated" either way ("L" or "r").

But anyway, you say you like names to be as close to the Japanese pronunciation? Does this mean you call Keith from 0083 "Kisu?" Do you say "zero shisutemu?" How about "Gandamu?" :rolleyes:

[Feslmogh]

Originally posted by DR. BELCH
--the first time I heard the name "Bulma" I thought of the eating disorder bulimia (the "scarf-and-barf" syndrome). Well, she IS a thin little thing.... ;)



I don't know... she has well developed, nice looking legs... :D

[SSJ_Gogeta]

Originally posted by Feslmogh


I don't know... she has well developed, nice looking legs... :D

Yep. Bulma is pretty sexy.... I mean for a cartoon character... yeah...

[kiddiesunshine]

i do prefer japanese names. kisu is cooler than keith imo. gandamu is sweet! i am a japanese name freak. call me crazy, but i expect japanese words in japanese shows.