Dough For the Do-Do **pictures**

[Jon Cooke]

Here are some comparison pictures from that terrible dark, sped-up "Dough For the Do-Do" which is shown on CN (and on the Porky Golden Jubilee video) to the version available on LD and on Taz's Jungle Jams VHS. Notice a BIG difference?

Title Card:
http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/001a.jpg http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/001.jpg


Mammy...mammy:
Picture 1 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/002a.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/002.jpg)

ZOOT:
Picture 1 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/003a.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/003.jpg)

Information About the Do-Do:
Picture 1 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/009a.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/009.jpg)

Introducing...in Person... the Do-Do:
Picture 1 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/005a.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/005.jpg)



-Jon

[Jack]

WOW!!! I always thought the top and bottom of the title card were matted in black to display the white title lettering. That is a radical difference! It's GREAT looking!

I never knew the time compression ruined it that much, I'm going to go look for that jungle Jams video now...

Thanks Jon.

Jack:D

[Matthew Hunter]

I'd never seen the two compared like that before. whoa! Say, Jon, either your site or my site ought to feature it, but there needs to be a page devoted to time compression, and a list of which films are compressed on CN and where to get a better copy, if there is one. For example, "Duck Amuck" and "Rabbit Fire"...there colors are dulled by time compression, but it would be interesting to see a screen-grab comparison like this one.
-Matthew

[happyheathen]

CN's print is horrible - pls say it is an exception, and that most of the cartoons are shown in something resembling true colors?

and how badly is the sound distorted?

for those interested, the pics (I think they are (mostly) still there) at:

http://www.jps.net/dclements/looneypics/

are from laser (except, obviously, those from the C11).

a comparison might be of interest

Now, WB, about those DVD's or at least real-time tapes?

[Jon Cooke]

Originally posted by Matthew Hunter
I'd never seen the two compared like that before. whoa! Say, Jon, either your site or my site ought to feature it, but there needs to be a page devoted to time compression, and a list of which films are compressed on CN and where to get a better copy, if there is one. For example, "Duck Amuck" and "Rabbit Fire"...there colors are dulled by time compression, but it would be interesting to see a screen-grab comparison like this one.
-Matthew


That's not a bad idea. I know "Fast and Furry-ous" also looks pretty bad on CN (compared to the version on the Space Jam Road Runner video). That would make for another good side-by-side comparison.

Here are the rest of my Do-Do pictures:

"In Person":
Picture 1 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/004a.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/004.jpg)

WOOOOOOOO!:
Picture 1 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/006a.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/006.jpg)

Do-Do in window:
Picture 1 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/007a.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/007.jpg)

"Yes sir, he caught the last Do-Do!":
Picture 1 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/008a.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://www.toonzone.net/looney/picts/dodo/008.jpg)


-Jon

[Rob]

What an incredible difference! Literally like night and day. Sort of reminds you of the restoration work they do to fine art to clean it up...

Hey, CN! Don'tcha think it's time you started showing the REAL thing???

[Jack]

No, Happyheathen, CN runs many prints of varying quality. Some are fantastic with bright colors, but others are time compressed, or pre ruined by WB in some sort of other way...

There are the pointless edits made to cartoons that censor jokes that need no censoring (like "Hasty Hare" and all those)

There are time compressed prints that seem to hit cartoons with a lot of brown in the color scemes the hardest ("fast and Furry-ous" and "Dough For the Do-Do look terrible, brighter cartoons like "Duck Amuck" fare a tiny bit better, though) Also, some people feel that the time compression makes the characters sound like they are on helium...

There are the redrawns shown instead of computer colorized prints, like "Wholly Smoke" or even "Puss and Booty"

Some cartoons are shown without concentric circles, like "Rhapsody Rabbit," the CZ "Porky Pigs Feat," and a couple Sniffles cartoons.

oh, and there's the Betty Boop stuff...

It isn't really the norm to see awful prints, but there's a HUGE amount of room for improvement...



Jack:D

[Patrick McCart]

:eek:

Jon, you should make a page with all of these side by side. It's hard to belive how bad time-compression is to film.

You should start a "Tragedies of Time Compression" page with comparisons of You Ought To Be In Pictures, Rabbit Of Seville, and A-Scent The Matterhorn.

Blech...I thought the cartoon took place at dark!

[Brandon Pierce]

Was it time-compressed? Because the print they aired a long time ago had a dark print and Porky sounded like a chipmunk.

[ChrisWinston]

Originally posted by happyheathen
CN's print is horrible....
Now, WB, about those DVD's or at least real-time tapes?

Do you think they actually read here, the WB execs who might be in charge of putting together a LT/MM collection on DVD?

It'll help when more people write 'em to express displeasure in butchered cartoons, ay? They're probably not psychic.

[lislebartman]

The copy of "Dough for the Do-Do" was not time-compressed on ABC, nor were any of the cartoons which were aired on Nickelodeon.

I think a time-compressed cartoon page would be pretty net. Then some people can notice the differences.

P.S. - "Pests for Guests" was time-compressed this morning on the Looney Tunes Show :mad:

[Rob]

InordertosavetimeforyoumyfellowcartoonfanswhodonthavealotoftimetoreadpostsonthisboardIhavedecidedtot imecompressthismessageasatest.

[Dave Mackey]

Here are some comparison pictures from that terrible dark, sped-up "Dough For the Do-Do" which is shown on CN (and on the Porky Golden Jubilee video) to the version available on LD and on Taz's Jungle Jams VHS. Notice a BIG difference?

Title Card:

I notice enough of a difference to ask you permission to use this better one on my site.

Dave

[hiphats]

As I have explained many times before...the time compressed prints you've been seeing are transferred from UK prints mastered in Europe's PAL format, and converted to our NTSC format. The PAL system runs 4 to 5% faster on UK video, and that's what we see here because of the transferring. Of course, you do lose quality picture since the final transfer we see is a couple of generations down from the original film print it was transferred from.

'nuff said?

hips
SUPERMAN Web Central (http://members.aol.com/hiphats/superman.html) E-mail me (hiphats@aol.com)

[lislebartman]

Personally, I don't buy that explanation. It has nothing to do with UK prints or any of that nonsense! What it has to with is ad time, pure and simple. By airing time-compressed prints, they can sell more time for advertisements and local cable TV break-ins.

Your explanation doesn't hold water, mainly because Turner stations used to have disclaimers before movies saying whether or not it was time-compressed. I don't think Turner would get copies of movies from the UK, now would he?

Besides, haven't we discussed this issue before, about 5-6 months ago? I feel as though I'm experiencing deja-vu!

Besides, haven't we discussed this issue before, about 5-6
months ago? I feel as though I'm experiencing deja-vu!

[Patrick McCart]

Hiphats is right, actually. REAL time-compression doesn't look like that.

Here's the fps comparisons:

Original print: 24 fps
PAL speed: 25 fps (So, stuff on PAL looks very similar to the original film print.)
NTSC speed: 29.5 fps

Well, if the 24 fps is mastered for NTSC, the speed is changed on the FILM speed. If a NTSC tape is mastered from a PAL tape, the tape is sped up. On some VCR's (SVHS), you can fast-forward a tape without the head streaks on the image...but the image is slightly blurred. PAL also stores the color information as a separate "track", I think.

Time-compression would only save about 20-30 seconds of airtime, just for one commercial approx. I doubt they'd go through all that trouble just so an occasional show features a time-compressed cartoon.

Time-compression for a movie would make a bigger difference...

Also, another reason for Dough For The Do-Do to look so dark is because it was filmed in Cinecolor. Cinecolor is a weird color that doesn't yield accurate color like Technicolor. Notice that other WB-owned Cinecolor cartoons look unnaturally dark (like Riff-Raff Daffy).

If CN wanted more ad time, why did they replace the PAL masters of Two Scents Worth and A-Scent The Matterhorn with normal-speed NTSC masters?

To compare true time-compression with PAL speed, see Mister and Mistletoe (Popeye). It's time-compressed, but it looks nothing like the WB cartoons in PAL speed.

[Owl Jolson]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Patrick McCart
[
Also, another reason for Dough For The Do-Do to look so dark is because it was filmed in Cinecolor. Cinecolor is a weird color that doesn't yield accurate color like Technicolor. Notice that other WB-owned Cinecolor cartoons look unnaturally dark (like Riff-Raff Daffy).


I don't know why the Cinecolor process would result in an unusually dark-looking cartoon (maybe someone in this forum can help with that). But for an explanation of the Cinecolor process--and, for that matter, just about anything you might like to know about the history of motion picture color processing--check out the info on Martin Hart's excellent Widescreen Museum webpage:

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/index.htm

The material on Cinecolor is at:

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/cinecolor2.htm

Although all the Cinecolor images Hart posts are from live-action films, he does mention the Cinecolor WB cartoons.

[Jon Cooke]

Originally posted by Dave Mackey


I notice enough of a difference to ask you permission to use this better one on my site.

Dave


I don't mind, Dave. You have my permission!
:)

-Jon

[Greg Method]

<< Personally, I don't buy that explanation. It has nothing to do with UK prints or any of that nonsense! What it has to with is ad time, pure and simple. By airing time-compressed prints, they can sell more time for advertisements and local cable TV break-ins. >>

Actually, it has nothing to do with ad time. To sum up how I explained it in the "Turkey Farming" thread last week, the sped-up prints are shown because those are the most recent prints Warner has that have been dubbed into Spanish, period.

If it was about getting as many ads on as possible, then wouldn't all the cartoons they receive from Warner be sped up? And also, wouldn't they show ten straight minutes of ads after a "Scooby Movie" episode rather than a "Toon Extra?"

And considering half of the commercials are for their own programming, it doesn't look like they're desperate to make more room for sponsers.

Cartoon Network is of course looking to get more ad money like any other network, but it seems more likely that they would do so by making their network more appealing to a bigger audience (ie-Hispanic) than to play only certain segments of a random compilation program a little faster than normal speed.

[Jon Cooke]

Originally posted by lislebartman
Personally, I don't buy that explanation. It has nothing to do with UK prints or any of that nonsense! What it has to with is ad time, pure and simple. By airing time-compressed prints, they can sell more time for advertisements and local cable TV break-ins.

I tend to belive Greg Method's explanation, posted very recently in a "Hasty Hare" thread: Click here (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?threadid=2393).

Awhile back, the fellow at CN who put together those themed Acme Hours e-mailed me asking why everyone on this board thought CN time compresses some of the Warner cartoons. Apparently, folks at CN weren't even aware some of the shorts they were running were sped up. They just run what Warner Bros. sends them.


-Jon

[Brandon Pierce]

I justy bought the video "Taz's Jungle Jams" and HOLY SMOKES, I couldn't believe how good the print was for Dough for the Do-do! A lot better then the crappy prints that CN and ABC aired. However, I'm dissapointed that the video as the "dubbed" version of Gorrilla My Dreams. Yuck!

[Lonestarr]

It's daytime in each of the second picutres, whereas it's night in the firsts.

OR

When restoring the 'toon, they were a couple of F-Stops off.

[Paul Penna]

Originally posted by Jon Cooke


I tend to belive Greg Method's explanation, posted very recently in a "Hasty Hare" thread: Click here (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?threadid=2393).

Regarding Greg's theory, I wonder if anyone has done an title-by-title comparison of the time-compressed cartoons on the "Golden Jubilee" tape sets and those shown on CN? The tape version of "Do-Do" is very similar in all regards to the CN copy.

As for why those Jubilee tapes had some time-compressed titles, my belief is that it was to limit the running time to accomodate standard-length duplicating cassettes. Those come in a wider variety of lengths than consumer tapes, but it would still put a twinkle in a bean counter's eye if a few cents per unit could be shaved off a run of several thousand or tens of thousands of tapes.

[Blacklight]

Wow. All this time I seriously thought "Do-do" was that dark on purpose to make it look more surreal and creepy! :o

[chuckamuck43]

Originally posted by Rob
What an incredible difference! Literally like night and day. Sort of reminds you of the restoration work they do to fine art to clean it up...

You've hit the nail on the head, Rob - they ARE fine art.

It's so very frustrating and depressing that they're looked at by the company that owns them as mere kiddie programming!

[candy17]

Originally posted by Jack
There are the pointless edits made to cartoons that censor jokes that need no censoring (like "Hasty Hare" and all those)



What was censored on "The Hasty Hare"? I heard it was something about an astronomer that looked like Friz Freleng.

[candy17]

Originally posted by Blacklight
Wow. All this time I seriously thought "Do-do" was that dark on purpose to make it look more surreal and creepy! :o

I thought so too, though the brighter, cleaner version of "Dough for the Do-Do" looks like something network TV would air during Saturday morning (with edits, of course). Where's the edge? Where's the implied symbolism that this is not your baby siblings' cartoons?

[Daffyfan2002]

Those were good, Jon. Now I see the difference between Cartoon Network's print of this cartoon and the original cartoon. Do you think you could do something like that comparing "Dough for the Do-do" with "Porky in Wackyland?" Just a suggestion.

[lislebartman]

YIKES!!!! :eek:

Who dug up this old thread? :confused:

[Brandon Pierce]

Candy17 did. Big surprise.
THIS CHICK'S COPYING ME!!!!

[Matthew Hunter]

Candy17, check your PM box please :mad:
-Matthew