"WWE RAW" 11-9-09 Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

As RAW and the WWE move toward Survivor Series they are in the United Kingdom this week. The UK will provide RAW's guest host, British boxer Ricky "the Hitman" Hatton, a multi-time champion with a record of 45-2 with 32 knockouts. Randy Orton and Kofi Kingston will officially meet at Survivor Series when they captain opposite teams in a Traditional Survivor Series Elimination Match.


http://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/wwe.jpghttp://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/raw.jpgWWE RAW #859
Monday, November 9, 2009 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on USA Network

HATS OFF ON RAW
It’s only fitting that one of England’s most celebrated ring warriors, Ricky Hatton, will be the guest host of Raw when it visits his native land. What will the British boxing sensation have in store for the WWE Universe?

[Wonderwall]

Has Ricky taken the pre Dancing with the Stars Chuck Liddell diet? Cuz he looks like he's gained weight.

Edit:

Well that was an anticlimatic way to end Swagger's whole undefeated thing. Kind of a waste. They didn't even mention it.

[Condiment King]

Well that was an anticlimatic way to end Swagger's whole undefeated thing. Kind of a waste. They didn't even mention it.
They did like at the very end, when they showed Miz on the ramp but it was definitely in passing. And yeah I agree. I have no idea why it ended so ho-hum like that. Couple this with the fact that Swagger's actual wins were just throwaway matches with Primo on Superstars and I wonder why they even bothered with the entire winning streak angle.

I found this Raw kinda boring for whatever reason. I thought Ricky Hatton was a good enough host. He had an understated charisma, and the crowd really got behind him. He seemed like the most over guy on the entire show.

It wasn't as definitive as the destroying of Jamie Noble, but the Sheamus squash did the job. You gotta wonder how long they can keep Sheamus at arm's length like this and build him up, because I'm really interested to see whether they keep up the push once he joins the rest of the competition.

Orton vs Henry was alright. I like that they continue to keep Orton and Kofi apart. I do like the teams for Team Orton vs Team Kofi, but still wish that they weren't beginning the feud with a traditional Survivor Series match. I would guess a singles rematch will come at the December PPV.

I also like the teams for Team Morrison vs Team Miz. It was a nice way to play into the Miz/Swagger rivalry by having them argue who should be team captain and eventually having Miz prove that he should be. I still don't know what's the long-term plan for this rivalry since a heel vs heel thing doesn't make a lot of sense.

The Hatton vs Santino MMA thing was there. I really can't wait until the guest hosts thing is eventually over. It's really tiring when at least two or three segments every week are devoted to them. It's a big contributing reason for why Raws can seem to drag down from time to time. For example, that Hatton/Santino/Chavo dart segment was a waste of time.

This is like the fourth time that Ozzy RAW Rebound has aired, and that RAW wasn't even that great. God, the RAW Rebounds have got to stop, especially on freaking RAW itself.

That DX/Cena/Hornswaggle comedy segment was AWFUL. That Twitter joke was PAINFUL to listen to.

The DX vs Jerishow main event was kinda boring. The finish made sense, though. I thought John Cena was a little too monotone at the announcer's booth. He sounded real, yes, but he almost sounded borderline disinterested toward the end. I gotta admit that I disapprove Undertaker just randomly appearing on RAW, especially since they could easily book without doing this. I get that they are trying to make the RAW Madison Square Garden semi-meaningful but still.

Which is funny because that triple threat tag team match and the women's title match at RAW in Madison Square Garden will probably end up being not as good as this week's Smackdown in England with Undertaker vs Jericho for the first time ever and Morrison vs Ziggler for the IC title.

[hobbyfan]

I don't know what has happened to Jack Swagger of late. A few weeks ago, he cuts a promo declaring that he'll end 2009 undefeated, but that lasts until the 2nd week in November? In favor of a feud with Miz? I guess it's not about Eve anymore (she didn't even make the trip, apparently, as only the Bellas hung out with Ricky Hatton), but it will soon be about the US title.

That said, I don't see Miz & Swag at the end of their match at Survivor Series. Your sole survivors will be Sheamus & Drew McIntyre, the organization's new golden boys.

Oh, and as for Mizizzle? That preppy look has to go!

Women's opener was fine for what it was. Alicia actually has made her axe kick more effective than Booker T's, and it may be the reason why R-Truth doesn't use it that much anymore. It won't be enough, though, for her to beat Melina next week.

Jamie Noble "contemplating retirement"? Coincidentally, this comes the same day that the NBA's Allen Iverson's thinking the same thing. Nice way to rip off a headline, Uncreative! ;) :p

So Sheamus has adopted a Splash Mountain bomb as his new finisher. Hunter must've shown him some Scott Hall tapes. :p ;) :D

Chavo Guerrero, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

This was the 3rd boxer vs. wrestler match in the last two years (Matt Hardy vs. Holyfield, Big Show vs. Mayweather), hopefully the last. What exactly has Chavo done to take this kind of abuse? Like, the next thing ya know, he'll get on Sheamus' bad side, and......! :p ;)

During the main event, they played up the friendship between DX and how that will play into the title match at Survivor Series. We just saw Batista and Rey Mysterio's friendship explode just two weeks ago at Bragging Rights. I can't see them doing a similar angle so soon. There's clearly friction 'tween DX & Cena, with Hornswoggle stirring the pot. I'm sorry, but the little guy has jumped the shark.

Meanwhile, Jericho's bloated ego may be the death of the tag team champs yet. He's still taking credit for "single-handedly" winning at Bragging Rights, which will ultimately get him in trouble over on Smackdown. As for Big Show, I got to thinking. Two of Show's title wins have come at Survivor Series (1999 & 2002), so winning a third is a very good possibility.

So much to look forward to @ MSG:

Roddy Piper as host.

Jeri-Show vs. DX vs. Cena/Undertaker (the latter teaming for the first time in 7 years, IIRC).

Alicia vs. Melina for the women's title.

Santino vs. Chavo (you know they're building to that again, so why not?).

[Wonderwall]

Oh I forgot to mention, but man Cena was annoying on commentary tonight. He just kept repeating himself over and over...and over. He just sounded really unenthusiastic as well which just made it worse.

[Mesousa]

I also like the teams for Team Morrison vs Team Miz. It was a nice way to play into the Miz/Swagger rivalry by having them argue who should be team captain and eventually having Miz prove that he should be. I still don't know what's the long-term plan for this rivalry since a heel vs heel thing doesn't make a lot of sense.

(facepalm)

Morrison's a face, darn it.

Oh, by the way, of the six matches currently on the card, half of them are Survivor Series matches, just like last year, and 2 years ago, we only had 1. Huh.

[Wonderwall]

(facepalm)

Morrison's a face, darn it.

I think he's referring to Miz vs Swagger.

[Zyzzybalubah]

(facepalm)

Morrison's a face, darn it.

Oh, by the way, of the six matches currently on the card, half of them are Survivor Series matches, just like last year, and 2 years ago, we only had 1. Huh.

This year they're doing it right! That's how Survivor Series should always be. 3-4 team elimination matches and maybe 1 or world title defenses. I like how they booked the show and I won't complain too much, but I kind of wish that Batista and Rey were team captains instead, but this looks like an intense feud so I count it as acceptable. The two of them will fight here and probably have a rematch at TLC or if they insist on having Batista defeat others, then Smackdown.

People may complain about Punk not being a captain, while it kind of sucks, he's on what is obviously the main event Survivor Series team with Orton/Legacy and the main event heel of ECW, William Regal. Sure his opposing enemy is R-Trust and he has the lame referee angle, but hopefully this will lead to some better things down the road for him (right now I just think they want to push Jericho/Batista as the top Smackdown heels, Punk was at the top for a couple months now.)

As for Raw itself, I missed it but the show sounded, alright, not great. Not big on Hornswoggle being involved in the world title feud... for 2 weeks in a row. I hope something interesting happens in that SS main event (Shawn or HHH turning heel.) They sound like they're doing a real good job booking Kofi/Orton, I'm sure as long as their first match goes well, and the angle doesn't fizzle, they can have a single match at TLC and Royal Rumble and both would be two premiere players in the Raw Elimination Chamber. I'm guessing they might save Dibiase/Orton for Wrestlemania, we'll see.

As for the guest hosts, I also can't wait for it to stop, unless they do wrestling hosts each week like they're going to do Hot Rod next week from MSG! That should be a good show. Honestly, my recommendation is they have wrestling talent host each week but donate 1 full segment to a celebrity that has something to promote (say the Nascar racers coming on to promote their Nascar race) and maybe involve DX, Hornswoggle, Santino, etc. to make an appearance giving their approval to whatever. Sure it may be a little corny, but it sure beats a whole show designed around this stuff and perhaps no/far far less Chavo squash matches by celebrities.

[hobbyfan]

(facepalm)

Morrison's a face, darn it.

Oh, by the way, of the six matches currently on the card, half of them are Survivor Series matches, just like last year, and 2 years ago, we only had 1. Huh.

Actually, CK might've meant a eventual Miz vs. Swagger feud.

[Mesousa]

People may complain about Punk not being a captain, while it kind of sucks, he's on what is obviously the main event Survivor Series team with Orton/Legacy and the main event heel of ECW, William Regal. Sure his opposing enemy is R-Trust and he has the lame referee angle, but hopefully this will lead to some better things down the road for him (right now I just think they want to push Jericho/Batista as the top Smackdown heels, Punk was at the top for a couple months now.)

Actually, R-Truth's enemy is Drew McIntyre, who's also in that match.

And as for the Miz/Swagger thing, it better not end with a feud, because the fans won't give a crap at all, but we'll care, but it's the general audience that counts.

[SirLemming]

This was a middle-of-the-road RAW for me. Not as good as last week's, not as horrible as ZZ Top RAW. I think in general they've still got a good thing going, though.

I hope Sheamus does something other than a jobber squash next week, though. This was a downgrade from his match with Jamie Noble last week -- and boy, that is saying something.

[Zyzzybalubah]

Actually, R-Truth's enemy is Drew McIntyre, who's also in that match.

And as for the Miz/Swagger thing, it better not end with a feud, because the fans won't give a crap at all, but we'll care, but it's the general audience that counts.

No that feud is over (so it seems.) I think they're pushing for Finlay vs. McIntyre now. Straight from the Survivor series site, here are the traditional Survivor Series matches:

http://www.wwe.com/shows/survivorseries/matches/

Team Kingston (Kofi Kingston, MVP (http://www.wwe.com/shows/survivorseries/matches/12468432/preview/#), Mark Henry, ECW Champion Christian & R-Truth) and Team Orton (Randy Orton, CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, Ted DiBiase & William Regal)

Team Morrison (John Morrison, Matt Hardy, Evan Bourne, Shelton Benjamin & Finlay) square off against Team Miz (The Miz, Drew McIntyre, Sheamus, Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger)

Team Mickie (Mickie James, Eve Torres (http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/eve/), Kelly Kelly (http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/kellykelly/), Divas Championhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif (http://www.wwe.com/shows/survivorseries/matches/12461538/preview/#) Melina (http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/melina/), and Gail Kim (http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/gailkim/)) vs. Team McCool (Michelle McCool, Jillian (http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/jillian/) Hall, Beth Phoenix (http://www.wwe.com/superstars/smackdown/bethphoenix/), Layla (http://www.wwe.com/superstars/smackdown/layla/) and Alicia Fox (http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/aliciafox/))


While I'd rather Swagger and Miz both remain heels, I'm guessing Swagger will turn face to feud with the Miz. My guess for why they ended his undefeated streak so early was (I have no support or evidence, it's just serious guessing, lol) is that they originally were thinking of having him feud with John Cena later this year or at Royal Rumble, but now they have someone else in mind. That and they think maybe Miz/Swagger could make a good feud?

[Condiment King]

I was meaning Miz/Swagger, of course. I know John Morrison is a babyface. And if Swagger were to turn face, it'd feel really sudden since they've both been jerks up until now. In fact, Swagger's the one that's coming on more to Eve, so he feels more heelish.

It was said earlier that the way Survivor Series should be is half-traditional Survivor Series matches and half-not. I think you could even go further and go all Survivor Series matches. It would provide a refreshing break to have a PPV that traditionally has no titles defended but serves the function of building future feuds and showcasing more of the roster. And with this roster, you could have sweezed out a RAW main event match, a RAW midcard match, a Smackdown main event match, an ECW match, a divas match and even a tag teams match.

[Hobbes829]

hobbyfan, why are you calling for mz to get rid of the preppy look? It's unique. It makes him stand out in a good way.

not one of the better raws, too much bad talking. I'm fine with promos so long as they are good but this was just bad.

DX finally threw the spot light on the fact that nearly EVERY single raw starts the same, with jericho insulting the GMs. Heck, that happens a lot on SD! Jericho has become boring, monotonous, and repetitive. At least he's great in the ring.

[hobbyfan]

hobbyfan, why are you calling for mz to get rid of the preppy look? It's unique. It makes him stand out in a good way.

Two words, Hobbes. Fashion victim.

[Hobbes829]

Two words, Hobbes. Fashion victim.
HE'S A HEEL. He's not supposed to be cool.

[Azrayel]

This weeks Raw was pretty boring thats all I gotta say.


Jericho has become boring, monotonous, and repetitive. At least he's great in the ring.

I agree with you. Jericho with the long hair was great to hear on the mic not like the current Jericho where every week his speech is the same saying how good he is and how the people are paracites and all that.

[Hobbes829]

Jericho doesn't have to go back to being Y2J, but saying the same lame insults week after week with no range in his delivery is boring after a while. He's good when he's talking about his opponents, but not when he hurls the same lame insults at the crowd and gets the pavlovian response.

[Condiment King]

Jericho doesn't have to go back to being Y2J, but saying the same lame insults week after week with no range in his delivery is boring after a while. He's good when he's talking about his opponents, but not when he hurls the same lame insults at the crowd and gets the pavlovian response.
Not to give him an excuse but there's something to be said for him being on both Raw and Smackdown. He's been on both shows since like July and done a promo per show. His creativity must be stretched to the absolute brink in order to churn out two promos a week at least. Nobody else really has that burden. Even Big Show is rarely if ever on Smackdown.

Though for what it's worth, I still really like this Jericho. I just would like him more if he was in singles feuds like his feuds with Mysterio and Michaels, which allowed him greater creative flexibility and long-term storytelling than his one-month feuds with every tag team on the roster as one-half of the unified champs.

[hobbyfan]

According to PWI, Jericho was inspired to change his promo style after seeing "No Country For Old Men". Granted, the man is a genius on the mic, but let's see how much longer he sticks with this.

[The Penguin]

Not being a boxing fan or British, Ricky Hatton didn't do a lot for me. I didn't mind him and think it was a great idea for WWE to use a countryman for the hosting gig, but as an opening host segment, I didn't really like it.

I guess the Divas had 'corner Divas' to give some hype for the Survivor Series match (which I would rather see as just a tag, making it shorter). The one is 2008 was SmackDown vs. RAW and even though that was just done last month (further proof for my argument that Bragging Rights be moved earlier in the year). That might have been better with Mickie the only non-RAW Diva on the face team. I feel bad for Melina that she's the champion (now anyway) and she isn't her team's captain. Hopefully the ones that can barely wrestle will get eliminated quickly.

"Destroyer" pushes have difficultly lasting for an extended period of team without some meaningful matches. I hope Sheamus successfully makes the transition that (the bald version of) Snitsky and others have not.

The only part of the backstage chaos I liked with Hatton was Chavo bragging about his performance in the "Cinco Dart Mayo" tournament.

I'm always in favor of Evan Bourne getting a win, but I was rather surprised to see Swagger's win streak end like that. While Miz and Swagger are a bit more personal, it seems (and I hope) that Bourne is on this action as well. It is certainly a good sign that Evan will be on his first PPV card since Cyber Sunday 2008 (which was thanks to the fans).

It was neat to see that Kyle Busch won with that SmackDown vs. RAW car. Let's assume it had something to do with the wrap on his car that day. ;)

A match with Orton would be a big deal, but I think it is big for Kofi to be the captain of a Survivor Series team too and I would bet he and Orton will get their shots in on each other as part of that match. Orton got his shots in against Henry with that RKO out of Henry's attempt to capitalize on the sunset flip.

I've been thinking about this whole Chavo vs. guest host thing and while I understand the dislike for it, it makes Chavo an important part of the show each week. Other than his run as ECW Champion, Chavo hasn't been this big of a deal since Eddie passed away.

Cena saying "You are an idiot" really sums up this new turn for Hornswoggle. The leprechaun can be a fun distraction, but it has just gotten to be too much.

So now RAW gets basically a RAW Rebound to show what the host did last week? No, just no.

With RAW being in MSG next week, it was good for them to have someone like a Roddy Piper in the guest host spot. Buff Bagwell still hasn't been to Madison Square Garden, but Piper is headed back. ;)

So John Cena, do you think it's possible DX will be split over the title and we'll see the Shawn Michaels we saw at WrestleMania 25? I hope he clarifies his thoughts because I'm not sure after hearing him explain it fifteen times! :rolleyes: Despite what some people think, you're better than that, John.

Show accidentally KOing Jericho was a good way to keep this thing going. I knew Cena's partner was going to be Undertaker as the match was announced, but the reveal was still pretty cool (minus the slightly too long pause).



It was said earlier that the way Survivor Series should be is half-traditional Survivor Series matches and half-not. I think you could even go further and go all Survivor Series matches. It would provide a refreshing break to have a PPV that traditionally has no titles defended but serves the function of building future feuds and showcasing more of the roster. And with this roster, you could have sweezed out a RAW main event match, a RAW midcard match, a Smackdown main event match, an ECW match, a divas match and even a tag teams match.I would be in favor of a return to nothing but Survivor Series matches. It's another one of those things that's Hulk Hogan's fault! :p He defended his WWF Title against The Undertaker on the card in 1991 and then the next year there were no Survivor Series matches at all. (Save for that two-fall eight-man elimination tag match. Close, but not close enough.) The event hasn't been the same since. Thankfully, the return to the matches the last several years has been an improvement over those before.