"WWE Friday Night SmackDown" 11-6-09 Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

As we near Survivor Series, things are heating up SmackDown! Last week Chris Jericho earned a spot in the World Title match so it will be him and his Unified Tag Team Championship partner Big Show against Champion The Undertaker.


http://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/wwe.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e92/Shadow0285/SmackDown2.jpgWWE Friday Night SmackDown #533
Friday, November 6, 2009 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on MyNetworkTV

BATISTA: NO THANKS!
On the last SmackDown, Matt Hardy tried to offer Batista some "brotherly" advice in settling his differences with Rey Mysterio. However, The Animal wanted no part of it and attacked Hardy from behind. Now, the two go head-to-head tonight!

[EinBebop]

A little bored while watching Raw, so I threw together this history of Undertaker-Big show using Wikipedia/Online World of Wrestling.

June 7, 1999 - Big Show challenges Undertaker for the WWF Championship, the match is stopped when Big Show chokeslams Undertaker off the top rope and through the mat.

Summerslam 1999 - Undertaker and Big Show, dubbed "the Unholy Alliance", team up against Kane and Xpac, winning the WWF Tag Team titles. The Unholy Alliance would lose the title a week later to Rock and Sock, win them back in the rematch, and then lose again to the New Age Outlaws on September 21st.

Summer 2000 - Big Show sides with Shane McMahon and turns on the Undertaker. But it was about that time that WWE decided to send Big Show to OVW to shape up, and an Undertaker chokeslam through a table is all we get out of the fued.

October 2002 - Undertaker, having just congratulated Brock on beating him, is giving a speech where he seems to be about to announce his retirement, when Big Show comes out and confronts him, takes credit for breaking down the Undertaker, leading to Big Show throwing Undertaker off a stage.

No Way Out 2003 - Undertaker, who returned at Royal Rumble, immediately announced on Smackdown that he wanted revenge. Big Show tried to apologize to the Undertaker by sending him gifts (including Brother Love!). But the final "gift" turned out to be an attack from Big Show. At No Way Out, Undertaker beat Big Show

Wrestlemania XIX (2003) - Big Show, along with partner A-Train, loses a handicap match to Undertaker, becoming a part of "the streak"

Summer/fall 2003 - Undertaker and Big show skirmish a few times... Big Show getting a countout win in August, Undertaker beating Big Show and Brock in a triple threat, and then beats both men again in a handicap match.

Great American Bash 2006 - Big Show subs for Great Khali in a Punjabi prison match against Undertaker; Big Show and Khali hit a double chokeslam on Undertaker at the SNME building up to this show. Undertaker wins, of course.

Unforgiven 2008 - Big Show becomes Vicki Guerrero's hired hand against the Undertaker.

No Mercy 2008 - Big Show beats Undertaker by ref stoppage due to multiple blows to the head.

Cyber Sunday 2008 - Undertaker beats Big Show in a last man standing match.

Survivor Series 2008 - Undertaker Beats Big Show in a casket match

December 2008 - Steel Cage Grudge match - Undertaker beats Big Show by submission, ending the fued for now

Royal Rumble 2009 - While Big Show and Undertaker are fighting on the apron, Orton eliminates Big Show, who pulls Undertaker down with him.

April 2009 - On his "last" match on Smackdown, Big Show beats Undertaker by ref stoppage, judging Undertaker to be in no condition to continue after Undertaker gets repeatedly punched and knocked to the ground.

Surprisingly, Chris Jericho has never had any kind of significant program with Undertaker. As I've mentioned before, Chris Jericho is my #2 pick for most likely competitor for Undertaker at Wrestlemania, behind John Cena.

[Blueprint]

Fans were chanting this is boring.

[Mesousa]

Fans were chanting this is boring.

...on a show that has owned so much in the past couple of months. What a decline.

Looks like ECW might be the best show at this rate...

[mumbo]

Surprisingly, Chris Jericho has never had any kind of significant program with Undertaker. As I've mentioned before, Chris Jericho is my #2 pick for most likely competitor for Undertaker at Wrestlemania, behind John Cena.
Jericho's my #1 pick for the spot, just because I think Cena/Batista is an extremely likely WM main event. And because it looks like Edge won't be healthy in time for WM.

But yeah surprising that these two have pretty much stayed apart for ten years.

[hobbyfan]

In the course of the 8 years Chris Jericho has been with WWE (remember, he left in August 2005 and returned in November '07), he's never fought 1-on-1 vs. Undertaker. I find that to be amazing in and of itself, and I'm racking my brain trying to recall if the two have ever been tag team partners at some point.

That having been said, it would appear as though they're setting up Jericho to be the next champ (Taker is injured, after all), which in turn creates further friction within Jeri-Show. Jericho-UT looks like a safe bet for Wrestlemania 26 in March, as there's no guarantee Edge will return in time. I can't see Jeri-Show holding the tag titles up to Mania, though. Probably not even into Christmas.

Ok, so Michelle McCool & Layla once again are acting like WWE's answer to the Beautiful People, but with more emphasis on the air of entitlement "mean girls" like them think they have. Layla will just be a brief speed bump for Mickie James before she beats Michelle for the women's title. After all, how many times has Mickie beaten Layla when they were on Raw?

Speaking of having airs of entitlement, Drew McIntyre is losing my respect. Being anointed a future champ by an insane boss doesn't give you the right to ambush every opponent that is put before you. You still have to work your way into contention. D-Mac didn't have this attitude when he was up 2 years ago, and it's eventually going to catch up with him and cost him. No Finlay, so no chance for a receipt----yet.

I've only got one message for CM Punk. You reap what you sow. ;) :p

Punk's another one who's lost cred thanks to his association with Vince McMahon. Oh, sure, Chairman Wackjob was nowhere to be found this week (and for that matter, neither was Teddy Long), but you know the pot will be stirred again in England next week. This has to end, and preferably yesterday.

Hardy vs. Batista? Nothing special. Once again, Bats wasted an opportunity to pick up a win, and ends up with a DQ on his record. He had that same problem periodically as a face. It'll be a while yet before he gets a title match.

I guess they're bent on having Dolph Ziggler challenge for the IC title again, as he's on a fresh winning streak. Persistence will pay off in the long term, and maybe this time, he finally garners his prize.

I found it amusing that they're claiming we're seeing a side of Batista "we haven't seen before". Well, it's been nearly 5 years since he was a heel, but it again illustrates the corporate mindset that assumes that all fans have short attention spans. If Rey-Rey goes berserk, though, well......that would be something different.

Right now, there is a distinct imbalance in the diva pool on Smackdown. You have 4 heels (Beth, Michelle, Natalya, Layla) and 1 face (Mickie), with Maria, who was headed for a heel turn before the breakup with Dolph, on leave of absence (Celebrity Apprentice). Either Beth or Nat has to turn to even things out. Any bets?

Department of Stupidity dept.: They ran clips of John Morrison on "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader" from last month, but nothing of Dolph on "Deal or No Deal", which aired earlier this week. So what about the face/heel dichotomy? Do they realize Dolph has his fans, too? Probably not.

Of course, on Tuesday, I totally forgot about "Deal", and missed it. :shrug:

[EinBebop]

In the course of the 8 years Chris Jericho has been with WWE (remember, he left in August 2005 and returned in November '07), he's never fought 1-on-1 vs. Undertaker. I find that to be amazing in and of itself, and I'm racking my brain trying to recall if the two have ever been tag team partners at some point.Online World of Wrestling is pretty handy for this sort of thing. Here are the times they've recorded the two crossing paths:

August 16, 1999 - RAW: Chris Jericho appeared again, this time interrupting The Undertaker & The Big Show..
~~~Jericho's messege was that RAW had become boring and needed to be rescued, calling himself the "Y2J problem"..
~~~Jericho said that he was there to save the World Wrestling Federation and save everybodys jobs at the same time..

November 9, 2000 - Smackdown!: The Undertaker defeated Chris Jericho and Kane and Chris Benoit in a 4-WAY..

November 16, 2000 - Smackdown!: Kane & Kurt Angle defeated The Undertaker & Chris Jericho. (Jericho was feuding with Kane at the time)

October 1, 2001 - RAW: Booker T & Test & Rob Van Dam defeated Chris Jericho & The Undertaker & Kane (Invasion! The two were also on the same team in the winner takes all match at Survivor Series)

February 4, 2002 - RAW: Chris Jericho & The Undertaker defeated Steve Austin & The Rock. (Jericho was world champion at this time, building a rep on Austin and Rock, Undertaker and Rock had something just starting)

July 11, 2002 - Smackdown!: The Undertaker & John Cena defeated Chris Jericho & Kurt Angle (Cena pins Y2J).

January 25, 2009--Royal Rumble: Chris Jericho entered the Royal Rumble at #11 before getting eliminated by the Undertaker

[Mesousa]

Department of Stupidity dept.: They ran clips of John Morrison on "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader" from last month, but nothing of Dolph on "Deal or No Deal", which aired earlier this week. So what about the face/heel dichotomy? Do they realize Dolph has his fans, too? Probably not.

It's just that, to WWE, it's a "sin" to know heels has fans.

:p

Yeah, they're that subtle.

[Hobbes829]

It's just that, to WWE, it's a "sin" to know heels has fans.

:p

Yeah, they're that subtle.
and they are smart to do that. You guys will find the most ridiculous things to criticize wrestling companies for.

[Wonderwall]

I would think that making heels less likable is a good thing. This isn't TNA, I like it when my bad guys get booed and good guys get cheers. That's how it was back in the day and it was great.

[Condiment King]

Right now, there is a distinct imbalance in the diva pool on Smackdown. You have 4 heels (Beth, Michelle, Natalya, Layla) and 1 face (Mickie), with Maria, who was headed for a heel turn before the breakup with Dolph, on leave of absence (Celebrity Apprentice). Either Beth or Nat has to turn to even things out. Any bets?
I would turn Beth Phoenix babyface, since she's been a heel forever and she's fought Mickie James a million times. Turning her babyface would set up fresh feuds with Michelle McCool and Natalya. Beth vs Natalya would be interesting.

I thought this Smackdown was okay. The interaction between Taker and Jericho at the beginning was good. I liked Jericho trying to twist the definition of the word "phenom." It was more interesting than him just saying I'm gonna win, which he also said.

Morrison & Cryme Tyme vs Dolph & the Harts was pretty good. I know everyone and their mother seems to think Dolph is going to be the IC champion or that he should be, but I'd keep it on Morrison personally. Dolph's already lost so many times that, while the IC belt would be a boost, I don't think it would be as much of one as if he'd beat Rey for it two or three months ago. Besides, while Dolph is pretty good in the ring, it's not like his promos are lighting the world on fire either.

Beth Phoenix squash, I'm glad they are doing these. Glad they are building up Beth again.

I'm thankful that they didn't do the "Drew McIntyre stops a match before it starts" thing yet again. At least Jimmy Yang attempted to do the match. I'll put my judgment on hold for now, but I'll reiterate that this "aggressive foreign superstar attempts to win all his matches" stuff gets old, even if it makes plenty of logical sense. Give him an interesting personality please. Make me care about him.

Rey vs Knox was very good. Whenever these two are in the ring together, they have a great chemistry, and it shows. They manage to do a match that is a mix of styles but also isn't boring, which I find many of those type matches to be.

CM Punk vs R-Truth was alright. I gotta question this Punk vs Scott Armstrong feud continuing. I guess it doesn't hurt Punk too much to lose to R-Truth when everyone can see it was a fast count, and I did like how Armstrong immediately left. But c'mon. A feud with Scott Armstrong? Even feuding with a midcarder like R-Truth or Matt Hardy would be better than that. Why not feud proper with John Morrison? Heaven knows that Morrison vs Ziggler is stale as hell by now.

This Survivor Series seems to be where all the main eventers are having singles matches or triple threats and the midcarders/divas will probably end up with the traditional Survivor Series matches. I'd be fine with, say, a Team Morrison vs Team Ziggler match or something like that, with Orton vs Kingston being a singles match. Like I said I think on Monday, I don't really like singles feuds beginning with Survivor Series matches so I'm glad Batista vs Rey is one-on-one.

Speaking of Batista vs Rey, while they are building it well, I'm not really that interested in it. I will say that Batista is more interesting as the stoic heel than as his typical babyface self, I still don't find him all that interesting. Plenty of other wrestlers on the show captivate me more. Batista vs Matt Hardy was alright.

I can't believe Jericho vs Undertaker has never happened in all these years. I'm even more astonished that it's being given away on an episode of Smackdown. It totally should be Wrestlemania 26, and that "never fought each other" could be a plotline for it. As much as I dislike the booking, I am looking forward to Jericho vs Undertaker as well as Morrison vs Ziggler next week on SD. Should be a good episode.

[Azrayel]

This weeks show was ok nothing much to it then that. CM Punk feuding with Scott Armstrong I think its kinda lame. To me its like Shane Sewell(however you say his last name) and Bashir. Seeing as both ref's have wrestling backround and stuff.

[Jin Kazama]

and they are smart to do that. You guys will find the most ridiculous things to criticize wrestling companies for.

Yeah, but doesn't that really defeat the point of even having him on the show? It was publicity. It gets the name out there.

I'm not saying they should have made a huge deal of it, but Dolph could have made, like, one heelish comment on "Deal," enough for a half-second WWE hype video. He stays heel, WWE gets publicity. Otherwise, why bother?

[The Penguin]

The Undertaker can't appear quite so sporadically when he's the champion so it was good to see him here opening the show with Jericho interrupting him.

I was glad to see Ziggler get the pin in the tag match (he even tagged Smith twice ;) ) and get another shot against Morrison next week after his success over the last couple weeks. At this point, I have no idea what is going to happen next for these two.

Rey Mysterio interviews aren't usually that great, but I thought he did a decent job in his sit-down with Josh. That and I liked interviews being down with both of them. It kept them separated which was better for the story.

I'm still a bit thrown to see female "local competitors" but with Beth getting them two weeks ago, it's clear they are using them to build her up which I am totally in favor of. She was sadly being lost on RAW.

Every time I see Jimmy Wang Yang come out, I'm amazed he still works there—they just aren't doing anything with him. Drew McIntyre did something with him—destroyed him. Should we assume Charlie Haas will be making the trip to England? ;)

I thought Punk beating Armstrong last week was going to be the end of it. Scott being scheduled to be the referee for a Punk match doesn't make much sense, but perhaps he assured Chioda that he could handle it. The fast count giving Truth the win proves otherwise.

Ohmygod Layla was so annoying as Michelle's echo! I hope we don't have to see that again. Michelle probably could have used Layla on 5th Grader where the former teacher with a master's degree turned in the worst performance of the week, but Layla was of no help on SmackDown.

Michelle referenced a Divas Survivor Series match that has yet to show up on WWE.com. Personally, I liked the year they just did a ten-Diva tag rather than elimination. Takes up less time that way. If this is indeed a match, hopefully the Divas barely able to wrestle are eliminated first.

Obviously, Batista didn't care much about the win and was instead focused on making an example out of Matt—both show everyone he is serious and to teach the elder Hardy a lesson.



Department of Stupidity dept.: They ran clips of John Morrison on "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader" from last month, but nothing of Dolph on "Deal or No Deal", which aired earlier this week. So what about the face/heel dichotomy? Do they realize Dolph has his fans, too? Probably not.That episode aired in September on MyTV, but it also aired in syndication this week as part of WWE week which included Michelle, MVP and Big Show in addition to the previous seen Morrison and Miz episodes. That's why the clip was shown. Like him or not, Morrison is being built up to be one of SmackDown's top stars so it's more important to promote his outside activities than Ziggler's.


It's just that, to WWE, it's a "sin" to know heels has fans.

:p

Yeah, they're that subtle.

and they are smart to do that. You guys will find the most ridiculous things to criticize wrestling companies for.

Yeah, but doesn't that really defeat the point of even having him on the show? It was publicity. It gets the name out there.

I'm not saying they should have made a huge deal of it, but Dolph could have made, like, one heelish comment on "Deal," enough for a half-second WWE hype video. He stays heel, WWE gets publicity. Otherwise, why bother?The thing is, the banker is the "heel" of the show anyway so it's not like Dolph was all smiles and "breaking kayfabe" in his appearance. Ziggler actually didn't really do much after he was introduced (in character) because he was just as hidden as the regular banker after he got up in the window. With all the horrible insults Howie was claiming Ziggler said on the phone, it's possible WWE didn't want to talk about it anyway. ;)

Besides, the name gets out there by Ziggler appearing on Deal or No Deal, not by WWE showing a clip of his appearance. Not every outside WWE appearance gets footage aired on WWE TV.


I found it amusing that they're claiming we're seeing a side of Batista "we haven't seen before". Well, it's been nearly 5 years since he was a heel, but it again illustrates the corporate mindset that assumes that all fans have short attention spans. If Rey-Rey goes berserk, though, well......that would be something different.I disagree. The Batista of five years ago was just a ruthless power wrestler and Evolution's enforcer. He was happy to hurt people, but only to bring him and Evolution greater success. The Batista we are seeing now is angry, bitter and vindictive and believes that Rey Mysterio (along with everyone else) have cost him opportunities at winning the World Title. He sees enemies everywhere and will not stop until everyone is out of his way and he is World Champion again. A side of him we have never seen before.

[Jin Kazama]

Besides, the name gets out there by Ziggler appearing on Deal or No Deal, not by WWE showing a clip of his appearance. Not every outside WWE appearance gets footage aired on WWE TV.

That's horribly one-sided, though. It's like "Deal" saying "Hey, we'll hype you up, and you do absolutely nothing for us in return." Where does "Deal" stand to benefit? WWE's not bringing in new viewers to them, because the only WWE fans that would know about it are the ones that already watch it. Generally, it goes both ways.

[The Penguin]

That's horribly one-sided, though. It's like "Deal" saying "Hey, we'll hype you up, and you do absolutely nothing for us in return." Where does "Deal" stand to benefit? WWE's not bringing in new viewers to them, because the only WWE fans that would know about it are the ones that already watch it. Generally, it goes both ways.I don't recall if it was mentioned last week on SmackDown (or RAW for that matter), but both Ziggler (plus Eve & Maria) on Deal and the Superstar week on 5th Grader was one of the splash page stories on WWE.com last weekend/Monday. After the show has aired, no footage of the appearance is going to get anyone to watch the show—it has already aired. I doubt there are many people who are going to resolve to watch Deal or 5th Grader weekly or daily because a WWE appearance reminded them they enjoy the show. They both syndicated now because their respective networks threw in the towel on them as a regular part of their schedule.

[AJ1]

Wow, R-Truth got a huge win, probably the biggest of his career against former World's Champion CM Punk! I am not happy to see this but R-Truth will always have the "W" next to his name in the record books despite poor officiating by the referee. Drew McIntyer is on a roll and I can't wait to see him face off against some quality talent in the ring, Jimmy Yang and R-Truth aren't exactly the cream of the crop, hopefully Drew continues his winning streak and faces some key talent soon. I was upset at the main event, Batista should have won the match and then hit Hardy with a monitor or whatever it was he nailed him with, I'm sick of these DQ main events, this was not even a big $$$ fued that should have waited for PPV, it's just Matt Hardy afterall, he's a ham & egger these days.