A test to see how long you've been posting here and a question I need answered...

[Beyond Batman]

I started posting on this board in early of 99. I think it's safe to say, I'm a veteran of this board... as I'm sure many of you have been posting here longer than I have.

I don't know how long ago this board was founded, so I was wondering if some of the "old-school" posters can help me with this question. New members and long time fans are more than welcome to contribute, too, if you have some enlightening insight.

Justice League has been a big target for a lot of critics and fans alike. Since its debut, many posters here have been criticizing it... to the point where people began posting "anti criticism posts" telling people to "lighten up." So onto my question.

When the original BTAS debuted in 92, did that show get as much crticism as JL is getting today. Same thing goes for TNBAS, and the Superman Animated Series (STAS). Did they get as much criticism as JL is getting?

Now, I know a bunch of you guys are gonna say, "these are different shows, they shouldn't be compared." Or, "every show has its critics... someone will always hate something." Well, criticsim is criticsm and as far as JL goes, there's been an overwhelming amount of negativity amongst fan reactions. It's obvious when a show is getting a good vibe or a bad vibe and from what I've seen, JL is getting a bad vibe. I tend to see more people posting why they don't like it, rather than why they do like it.

What I want to know, was there a more positive vibe with BTAS, TNBAS, and STAS compared to JL? If so, what were the most common complaints?

*Just to let you know, I'm not trying to add to the negative vibe. I enjoy the show and I watch it with an open mind. So please don't reply saying I am, because I know a few of you who are probably thinking about that right now. :p

[Karkull]

That's a very good question--one that I really don't have an answer for. I'm sure that we all had some quibbles over some choices with BTAS and STAS, but I recall some definate heat over problems with BB when it came out.

Overall, I think that it's probably the same amount of criticism over the same things--characters acting out of character, shoddy art or scripts, the absence of certain characters. I guess it comes with the territory.

[Anarky]

I'm sure there were haters when BTAS dropped
I'm sure people hated the Penguin model, the blonde Catwoman, the bag over Scarecrow's head.

And I'm sure when STAS aired, people hated Tim Daly's voice, the tamed version of Parasite, and the anmated Brainiac.

Bottomline: there will always be haters when something new is introduced
Over time the haters will stop coming and then there will be nothing but love.
So everyone dissin on JL, don't watch. Read your JLA TPB's or watch something else...or even better, GO OUTSIDE!!!

Warner Bros & Cartoon Network are presenting us w/ a very cool alternative to anime'. I've enjoyed watchng Batman, Superman, and now the JL.

So don't let the haters ruin your viewing pleasure.

[The Green Hornet]

people hated the animated braniac?

frankly i think he puts the comic version to shame ;)

[Harvey Dent]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I was really upset when Batman Beyond came out. I was upset because it replaced The New Batman/Superman Adventures just when it was getting really good!

I didn't want to see a some kid dressed up as Batman 50 years into the future. I wanted to see a world that didn't trust Superman. I wanted to see more done with Batman's allies and rogue's gallery. I wanted to see an adaptation of No Man's Land. I wanted to see Lex Luthor use the events of Legacy to increase his standing among the American populace and possibly make a run for the Presidency. I wanted to see the slow and gradual formation of the JLA with Orin and Kyle Rainer. I wanted to see....well, I wanted to see a lot done with Superman and Batman, but it never happened, because someone somewhere decided to focus more on kids, and Batman Beyond is, in a way, a product of that. To this day, I remain cool on the subject of BB. I don't hate it; I just hate that it replaced something that would've been spectacular.

[The Green Hornet]

im not happy wiht the fact they did a replacement either

they should have let BNBA and STAS run their respective courses

[Sugar Daddy]

I personally love JL. Granted, there are some things I would change, buts its a great show. As for the criticism of the older shows, I have no clue.

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by Beyond Batman
I started posting on this board in early of 99. I think it's safe to say, I'm a veteran of this board... Umm... the JL board was created in 2001. So either you've fallen through a temporal vortex, or you're the victim of a very large dose of plot gas. ;) :p :D

I kid, I know you met the World's Finest Boards. While I didn't have access to the internet back when BTAS started I do remember finding my way to the WBBoards and from there to World's Finest back when the added Batman to KidsWB. Anywho, while I missed most of the debate over Superman's de powering and other changes for his series I do remember the old debates about them that keep on popping up. And of course the huge debates over if Terry even had the right to call himself Batman.

I think anything that changes (no matter how small the change really is) something that's been around for a long time in the comics is going to be heavily debated and critiqued. 'Tiss the nature of fanboys (and girls). ;)

I do feel that one of the reasons JL gets so many complaints is because people are only comparing it against the best of what came before ("On Leather Wings", "Heart of Ice", "I Am the Night", "Joker's Favor", "Feat of Clay", "Two-Face", "It's Never Too Late", "Almost Got 'Im", "Over the Edge", "Old Wounds", Harley's Holaday", "Last Son of Krypton", "Apakolips... Now!", "Legacy", "Stolen Memories" (I'm trying to limit this list, I swear), "Rebirth", "Assesition", "Mask of the Phantasm", "Return of the Joker", "Disappearing Inque", "World's Finest", "Meltdown", "Brave New Metropolis ", "The Demon's Quest", "The Late Mr. Kent", "Trial", "Shriek", "Robin's Reckoning", and the list goes on and on and on). But they're not comparing JL to the worst of what's come before ("Critters", "Love is a Crock", "Cold Comfort", "Girl's Night Out", "Unity", "Superman's Pal", "I've Got Batman in my Basement", "Moon of the Wolf", "The Terrible Trio", "Tyger, Tyger", "April Moon", "Armory", "Heroes", "Plague", "Rats!", "Revent", "Sentries of the Last Cosmos", "Speak No Evil", "Paul Dini Dates a Robot", "Zeta", "Curse of Kobra", and some others). I'd say that right now JL isn't as bad as say "Critters" *shudder* or "Unity" *twitch twitch* but it's defiantly not a good best stuff we've gotten the past.

[GL2k2]

I don't remember this board when STAS was coming to the then new WB network, but I know it was highly anticipated. Probably more anticipated than JL. It was a redemption factor from Lois & Clark, and all the fanboys had been waiting to get rid of that stupid image of Superman as a Soap Opera-ish patsy. Albeit, Smallville is not too far away from that, but Smallville represents the first fifteen minutes of the original Superman film, a part of the film that everyone wanted to see more of. It is so interesting to see a hero when they're young, isn't it. Well, maybe not Batman, I think he'd be pretty scary as a teenager.

I know that alot of people disliked TNBA alot.

[DarkLantern]

When BTAS first came out in '92, there were heaping doses of criticism and praise. Of course, they weren't always easy to spot, as a lot of the commentary were spliced between numerous "Kirk vs. Picard" posts on the fan newsgroups. And it was hard manuevering through all of that with a mere VAX machine...

But I digress. That's what happens when you walk to school every day ten miles through the snow barefoot (uphill both ways)...

The Dark Lantern

[Ed Liu]

Howdy all,

I remember the discussions that came out back on the rec.arts.animation newsgroup (way back in the day when dinosaurs roamed the Earth and I was mightily jazzed to upgrade to a 14.4 modem for my Quadra 700). As I remember, there was generally more praise than condemnation for BTAS there, but there was plenty of criticism leveled at specific episodes that were weak. I remember a lot of flak for "Feat of Clay Pt. 1," and one of the Scarecrow episodes (honestly, all those eps on BTAS were interchangable in my mind).

Fanboys are a harsh and literal-minded lot. What can I tell you?

-- Ed/Ace

[Supernovametalstar]

What? There were people that didn't like "Feat of Clay"? I am shocked and amazed, as that was a great two parter.

But when BTAS first started I was only familiar with the hokey 60s live Batman tv show, so to see a dark Batman was truly awsome for me. When it switched over to the WB and used the newer animation, I had some problems with it (mainly the character designs. Why were the girls waists so small and the guys shoulders so broad?), but I got over it when I saw the action element picked up (at the time, I wasn't overly fond of the pacing of most of the Fox version episodes, but I have come to appreciate them now).

I don't recall having any problems with Superman TAS (aside from the small waists and broad shoulders again, but meh) and I would end up loving just about every episode.

I was surprised to when I came here for the first time to see how many people didn't like Batman Beyond. It was pretty much as perfect as you could get considering the content (the stuff they got away with was incredible).

Then again, I may not be the best judge. I can even find good things to say about Static Shock and Zeta Project, when everyone else was bashing them to high heaven.