PDA

View Full Version : Comparing animation designs for characters across shows



Arjun
07-06-2009, 02:24 PM
Let's look at the different character designs used for a Marvel character. I've noticed significant design changes over the years. We see flat lineart with a single shade of colour for some time, until the late 1980s and beyond. We see detailed and deep animation designs in the 1990s, with two tones of colour, which appear to be very difficult to animate, and may be a reason for the relatively inferior animation then. The designs that were used in the 2000's appear to be very much like those of Bruce Timm and Steven Gordon- very little detail, slightly cartoonish, but they still have the two-tone shading. What would you consider to be the best (or optimal) design?

Spider-Man:

The 1967-68 TV show had a very basic animation design, with a single tone of texture and distinct lineart. The drawing was also not the most refined then, as it got better later on.
The 1980s had better lineart, but were still very flat in appearance.
The 1990s design was possibly the best among the designs, as it had two tones of colour and was drawn quite well. There were also two different colour variants- the other had pink and purple.
I won't comment too much on the cel-shaded 2003 design, as it was a 3-D animated show, unlike all the others.
The most recent design seems to be focussed on a relatively young audience, and
is very uncomplicated, although the orange and turquoise variant isn't very nice to look at.

The latest design is possibly the best animated, though the 1990s design was used for some very good animation.

Wolverine: That first Wolverine on animation was a huge flop. Bad drawing, bad animation, dreadful voice acting, bogged it down so much that many fans didn't want to see Wolverine in the next X-Men adventure, but things got a lot better since.

The Pryde version had the brown/tan costume, the only time it has ever appeared. It had two tones of shading and a lot of detail, and was animated quite well.
The 1992 design went back to the Michigan University colours and was otherwise similar to the 1989 design, but was animated rather badly.
The 1996 design had more black patches, and also looked good, at least when still.
The 2002 design for Evo was very simplified, and almost way off the comic depiction, and used a very different costume. Later in the show, they changed it to the Ultimate Wolverine leather jacket costume, which looked realistic, but not so interesting.
The 2008-09 design for the Hulk Vs show had reverted to the famous design, while for the new show, they used his current costume from the New Avengers. The shading is two-tone, but there's a lot less detail and it is relatively flat, and not the best drawn of the designs.

The 1989 design had the best design and animation- the following designs were lacking in either aspect.

Iron Man: He's often been a guest star in most shows, and had few appearances, bar the 1960s and 1990s, and the new show.

In the 1960s, the design was copied from the Tales of Suspense comics, and carried with it a great deal of detail and shading. The animation, of course, was limited, and not too great to look at.
The next design was the typical pre-1989 design, with single-tone shading and linework. All these designs used the classic armour.
The 1990s had deeper shading with lineart, with differences that were clear between each season's design.
The design on Spider-Man was quite weird and unlike the designs used in the other (Iron Man, Hulk) shows, which used the Modular Armour.
The design shown on Avengers was quite dreadful, in shading and choice of colour, and the animation wasn't much good.
The Fantastic Four armour had the very complex Model 30 Armour, more famous as the Extremis Armour used today, and was a very elaborate design, used quite well. Possibly the best among the cel designs.
The Ultimate Iron Man suit from the DTV movie, like the suit it was based on, was quite ugly.
The current Iron Man show uses something very similar to the movie suit (Mark 3), but this is again 3-D computer animation, very different from cel animation.

Hulk:

The 1966 Hulk was straight out of the comics, like all the other designs from the Marvel Super Heroes shows by Grant Ray Lawrence- highly detailed, but not animated well.
The 1982 Hulk had a design way ahead of its time and was still animated quite well, although the other characters had flat designs.
The 1990s Hulk had the most detailed and elaborate Hulk design till date, with three tones of colour. A slightly different looking Hulk appeared in FF.
The 2006 Hulk from FF:WGH was in two tones, and had sharp, straight lines and bright colours. A similar Hulk appeared on the Hulk Vs movies and Wolverine and the X-Men.

Fantastic Four:

Hanna-Barbera first animated the Fantastic Four, and we saw decent designs used at the time, and animated quite well, but now, they look a little dull.
They still did better than those who did the first season of the 1990s Fantastic Four, who used animation designs that were flat, outdated and badly drawn, and still animated it so badly that you could see it from so far away.
The second season 1990s designs were far better, with the Thing getting a much-needed revamp and the black/blue costumes looking shiny.
The Spider-Man episode designs were drawn better, but the shading wasn't that good.
The current designs are very flashy and full of straight lines, and you have to be a fan of that style of art to love them. Spray-painting the Thing was a bad idea. They were animated quite well, though.

The best, so far, would be the 1990s Season 2 design.

Captain America: He's appeared at least once on several shows in every decade, bar the 70's, but the differences are clear.

The 1966 design was exactly the same Jack Kirby sketch from the comics, like all other GRL designs.
The 1980s design, inspired by John Romita, used the scales on the chain mail a lot more and the animation was relatively neat.
In the 1990s, we saw three different designs, all for guest slots. In Spider-Man, we had a good design, animated well, but that choice of turquoise and vermilion was questionable.
In X-Men, we saw a costume with some black patches, but one aspect made it look like Superman more than Cap, and the shading, two-tone as it was, looked shoddy and the animation was limited.
The Avengers design had very dull shading and, of course, headphones, but was good otherwise.
The Evo design was hardly seen in full colour, but looked good when it lasted, with the Evo design aspects.
The DTV movies had a different Cap, but the animation was good, the design looked good but didn't have much depth.

The perfect Cap design is a bit hard to catch, although some short segments on the Spider-Man show looked a lot better than what eventually played a regular part on the show.

R-Taco
07-06-2009, 09:37 PM
I disagree about the 90's Spider-Man designs being the best. They were ripped straight from the comics, and that hurt the animation. Hard. SSM's ...erm, "spectacular" action/fight scenes do a great job demonstrating why simple designs are ideal for animation. Same goes for Evo.

Plus, I just like the cartoonier art styles of those two shows. It's a little more unique.

Trevor
07-13-2009, 08:18 PM
Spider-Man:
The 1967-68 TV show had a very basic animation design, with a single tone of texture and distinct lineart. The drawing was also not the most refined then, as it got better later on.
The 1980s had better lineart, but were still very flat in appearance.
The 1990s design was possibly the best among the designs, as it had two tones of colour and was drawn quite well. There were also two different colour variants- the other had pink and purple.
I won't comment too much on the cel-shaded 2003 design, as it was a 3-D animated show, unlike all the others.
The most recent design seems to be focussed on a relatively young audience, and
is very uncomplicated, although the orange and turquoise variant isn't very nice to look at.
The latest design is possibly the best animated, though the 1990s design was used for some very good animation.


Personally I would have to say that the latest is the worst animated Spider-Man. And I don't really care for the design of Spider-Man in the 2003 series, but as you said it was a 3-D show, whereas the other shows are 2-D.

The 1980's designs, while I have only seen 3 episodes from the 1981 Spider-Man series on the Morningstar DVD releases that were copied from the VHS releases, those designs look to be simple updates of the character designs from the 1967 series, mainly to reflect dress styles of the late 70's and early 80's.

The 1967, while it may not look as good as the 1990's art, but it was the art style of this show that got me hooked on watching Spider-Man in the 80's and eventually X-Men. So while it looks primitive by today's standards the animation still draws you in, and makes Peter still look like a high school/college guy from the 1960's. (Just what exactly was Spider-Man's webs catching onto when he was webslinging across the city at the height of the skyscraper's? Were there a bunch of jetliners flying over New York City in the 1960's and he was able to "latch" onto their underbellies?)

But I would have to say that out of all of them the 1994 Spider-Man was the best drawn and animated Spider-Man. I think it really shows in how well his webs were drawn. When Spider-Man shot a web near the screen it looked 3-D, an not flat. (And even now, in the post-theatrical Spider-Man world, the 1994's series webs look the closest to the webs used in the movies.) Plus I thought Spider-Man looked really good when he gained the 6-arms.

Also another factor is that Peter Parker looks like he is old enough to be doing the stuff that he does, whether it is going to college or working for the JJ Jameson or even working for Wilson Fisk or even going out to earn money to help his Aunt May. Somehow the character of Peter Parker just doesn't come across in Spectacular Spider-Man as being able to figure out the really big crimesprees that he's most likely going to have to battle if the Kingpin is introduced into the series.

So I would have to say, that for me, my favorite Spider-Man designs are the designs from the 1967 and the 1994 series.








Wolverine: That first Wolverine on animation was a huge flop. Bad drawing, bad animation, dreadful voice acting, bogged it down so much that many fans didn't want to see Wolverine in the next X-Men adventure, but things got a lot better since.
The Pryde version had the brown/tan costume, the only time it has ever appeared. It had two tones of shading and a lot of detail, and was animated quite well.
The 1992 design went back to the Michigan University colours and was otherwise similar to the 1989 design, but was animated rather badly.
The 1996 design had more black patches, and also looked good, at least when still.
The 2002 design for Evo was very simplified, and almost way off the comic depiction, and used a very different costume. Later in the show, they changed it to the Ultimate Wolverine leather jacket costume, which looked realistic, but not so interesting.
The 2008-09 design for the Hulk Vs show had reverted to the famous design, while for the new show, they used his current costume from the New Avengers. The shading is two-tone, but there's a lot less detail and it is relatively flat, and not the best drawn of the designs.
The 1989 design had the best design and animation- the following designs were lacking in either aspect.


For Wolverine, I won't say there was a bad or worst design, since I haven't seen the Wolverine design from the Spider-Man and His Spectacular Friends show, but my least favorite would have to be the designs for Pryde Of The X-Men and X-Men Evolution. I'm sorry, but brown and tawn just doesn't look good on Wolverine.

As for favorite...I would have to give that to the 1992 Wolverine design. And I find that with Wolverine from Wolverine and the X-Men the creators of the show decided to go with a design that, I think, was heavily influenced by the 1992 Wolverine. But with the 1992 Wolverine, I would say, just makes Wolverine look like a guy that you wouldn't want to run into anywhere if you got him ticked off---especially in a blind alley.

But even the design for Logan I would have to say that the 1992 is really good. But then the Logan from Wolverine and the X-Men looks like a 2000's update of the 92 design, while the X-Men Evolution design makes Logan look more like a "wild man", since the guy constantly has whiskers on his chin.

Animation Freak
07-14-2009, 07:42 PM
Personally I would have to say that the latest is the worst animated Spider-Man. And I don't really care for the design of Spider-Man in the 2003 series, but as you said it was a 3-D show, whereas the other shows are 2-D.
But I would have to say that out of all of them the 1994 Spider-Man was the best drawn and animated Spider-Man. I think it really shows in how well his webs were drawn. When Spider-Man shot a web near the screen it looked 3-D, an not flat. (And even now, in the post-theatrical Spider-Man world, the 1994's series webs look the closest to the webs used in the movies.) Plus I thought Spider-Man looked really good when he gained the 6-arms.

Also another factor is that Peter Parker looks like he is old enough to be doing the stuff that he does, whether it is going to college or working for the JJ Jameson or even working for Wilson Fisk or even going out to earn money to help his Aunt May. Somehow the character of Peter Parker just doesn't come across in Spectacular Spider-Man as being able to figure out the really big crimesprees that he's most likely going to have to battle if the Kingpin is introduced into the series.

So I would have to say, that for me, my favorite Spider-Man designs are the designs from the 1967 and the 1994 series.

Okay, first, no, the animation is a lot better in Spectacular than in the 90s cartoon. Just because you dislike the designs doesn't mean it's poorly animated. In fact, it's the other way around: the 90s cartoon had bad animation--a lot and that's in part because of the overly detailed designs. The animation in Spectacular is much better, in part because of the show streamlining the designs of animation than adapting them straight from the comics.

Secondly, in the comics, Peter did start out meeting his classic foes while in high school, so that's another thing Spectacular got right. Peter in Spectacular is a lot like in those comics--learning the ropes as he goes along and makes a lot of mistakes along the way.

Trevor
07-14-2009, 08:11 PM
Secondly, in the comics, Peter did start out meeting his classic foes while in high school, so that's another thing Spectacular got right. Peter in Spectacular is a lot like in those comics--learning the ropes as he goes along and makes a lot of mistakes along the way.

I realize that in the comics Peter still start in high school---but on the new Spectacular Spider-Man show, when I'm watching an episode of it on DVD I have a hard time believing that the Peter Parker on that show is anymore than 10, 11 or 12 years old. You know, in the design for Parker, I just don't see a 15, 16 or 17 year-old high school kid. Junior High School---maybe, but not old enough to have a job taking pictures for a big newpaper like the Daily Bugle.

But I would like to point out that the 67 and 94 series did have a couple of episodes that took place while Peter Parker was in his senior year of High School.

But I think one person already said this in a good way on this board, and I don't remember the exact words, but we all got hooked on the Spider-Man cartoons with a one or more of the cartoons, and for everyone there is going to be one cartoon that is considered the superior interpretation of the Spider-Man comic books in both design and story telling. And for me I grew up with the 67 series and the 94 series, and I've seen the 2003 series on TV and I have the complete series on DVD, plus I've seen the Spectacular series; and out of all those series I've found that the animation has gone down hill since the 94 series signed off in 97/98, to the point where I know that it is not the animation that appeals to me and draws me to the new series.

M.O.D.O.K.
07-14-2009, 09:54 PM
But I think one person already said this in a good way on this board, and I don't remember the exact words, but we all got hooked on the Spider-Man cartoons with a one or more of the cartoons, and for everyone there is going to be one cartoon that is considered the superior interpretation of the Spider-Man comic books in both design and story telling. And for me I grew up with the 67 series and the 94 series, and I've seen the 2003 series on TV and I have the complete series on DVD, plus I've seen the Spectacular series; and out of all those series I've found that the animation has gone down hill since the 94 series signed off in 97/98, to the point where I know that it is not the animation that appeals to me and draws me to the new series.

It is a legitimate complaint to say that Pete may look younger than he should be, but again, you are confusing art style with animation. The art style is the one you dislike. The animation, however, is superior to the one in the previous shows. It is more smooth, and the characters move better, so if anything, it has improved.

Silverstar
07-16-2009, 08:56 AM
Fantastic Four:

Hanna-Barbera first animated the Fantastic Four, and we saw decent designs used at the time, and animated quite well, but now, they look a little dull.
They still did better than those who did the first season of the 1990s Fantastic Four, who used animation designs that were flat, outdated and badly drawn, and still animated it so badly that you could see it from so far away.
The second season 1990s designs were far better, with the Thing getting a much-needed revamp and the black/blue costumes looking shiny.
The Spider-Man episode designs were drawn better, but the shading wasn't that good.
The current designs are very flashy and full of straight lines, and you have to be a fan of that style of art to love them. Spray-painting the Thing was a bad idea. They were animated quite well, though.

My personal favorite FF TV designs are those for the second season of The Marvel Action Hour and FF: World's Greatest Heroes. MAH season 2's designs were a VAST improvement over the first season's, and that was probably the best The Thing has ever looked in animation.

The WGH designs were hit and miss; I had to get used to Johnny's design in this series, at first he looked like a character from the video game Tekken or a Super Saiyan to me, but in the long run I think his look meshed well with his wiseass character. Several people complained about how young Reed and especially Sue looked in WGH, but one has to keep in mind that this series was created in the wake of the live-action movies and followed that continuity, more or less; keep in mind that Sue and Reed weren't married or even officially dating in WGH.

The biggest miss in the WGH designs was the team's costumes. The candy-colored suits with the big '4's in the orange circles just didn't look quite right; I'd have rather the producers had gone with the dark blue costumes from the movies. I'm afraid I have to jump on the bandwagon of viewers who took issue with Ben's costume design. I wasn't feeling the spray-painted '4' or the baggy pants on him at all. Even if Thing wasn't going to wear a shirt (as someone else here noted, it's ironic how a character who was so self-conscious about his appearance went into battle wearing the least amount of clothing; perhaps spandex over brick is really uncomfortable), then he could've at least had a '4' insignia on his belt, like in the movie.