Flapjack's Future? Also, I officially hate CN

[~Shoяe]

OK, idk if this is covered in the live action thread, BUT
http://nerdarmada.blogspot.com/2009/06/watch-chowder-tonight.html
CH mentions not just Chowder, but Flapjack, as a show that seems to be going under. I'm worried about it since its currently the best show on CN.

[Dr.Pepper]

Maybe they aren't playing any new episodes of Flapjack this summer.

[Racattack!Force]

Not really. C.H. Greeenblatt didn't take into account none of the network's other originals (TSS and Alien Force) also have new seasons and a new series coming up respectively. Also, Brave/Bold was not mentioned, yet CN ordered other 26 episodes for that one. So until Van Thurop starts getting worried, don't fret.

[chdr]

OK, idk if this is covered in the live action thread, BUT
http://nerdarmada.blogspot.com/2009/06/watch-chowder-tonight.html
CH mentions not just Chowder, but Flapjack, as a show that seems to be going under. I'm worried about it since its currently the best show on CN.Flapjack isn't going anywhere. Thurop is currently working on a second season.

[macattack]

Wow, C.H. is really angry. I don't know if what he is saying has any merit or not but this really does show he thinks Chowder is done, and for all we know he may be friends with Von Thurop. It would really suck that after five years in development hell Flapjack would be canned after just two years on the air. If I were on the staff I'd be like "WTF did I do all that work for, then?"

It would make me damn cynical about the cartoon business.

I agree we should wait for Von Thurop to say something but the lack of promotion for new Flapjack is at least mildly disconcerting and we shouldn't dismiss C.H. out of hand.

There is a sea change going on at CN, and it is Canadian comedy, homegrown action, and live-action programs. If CN feels Chowder does not fit in, and neither does Flapjack, they could very well can the both of them and shed no tears. CN did the same with Lazlo, Foster's, and Naruto, and was greedy enough to can Alien Force despite its successful formula because of upcoming pay raises.

[The Huntsman]

Flapjack isn't going anywhere. Thurop is currently working on a second season.Indeed. Besides, the executives seem to have a… certain affinity for adventure shows at the moment. “The Marvelous Misadventures Of Flapjack” is being followed by “Adventure Time”, as everybody knows, and there’s a third adventure show that has been in the works for a while. The fact that Flapjack’s DVD got more bonus features than Chowder’s DVDs seems proof enough to me that the executives like Flapjack more than Chowder.

[Mesousa]

CN included Clone Wars and TDA because they're their first season were obviously really good in the ratings.

Maybe Greenblatt is just rushing details.

[The Huntsman]

Maybe Greenblatt is just rushing details.I think he’s a bit bitter. Rightfully so, I suppose, but it’s never wise to bite the hand that feeds you. If he says the wrong thing and the executives learn of it, it’s not going to help “Chowder” get another season. Thurop Van Orman, on the other hand, has been mostly an optimist.

[Racattack!Force]

Rightfully so, I suppose, but it’s never wise to bite the hand that feeds you. If he says the wrong thing and the executives learn of it, it’s not going to help “Chowder” get another season. Thurop Van Orman, on the other hand, has been mostly an optimist.True. It's better to be optimistic until the final verdict rather than just lose all hope.

[chdr]

I agree we should wait for Von Thurop to say something but the lack of promotion for new Flapjack is at least mildly disconcerting and we shouldn't dismiss C.H. out of hand.

Thurop's opinion on CN Real...


Its gonna be fine... It just means they'll have more new shows on the air with less filler... They might even be good!Thurop's opinions on advertising...


For better or for worse, Cartoon Network is putting all their advertising into their new live-action reality shows... So you will probably be the only person "in the know" about our new Flapjack episodes... its our little secret! We'll have 2 brand new episodes every thursday 'till the end of the year. They're by far our best episodes yet. And our "Low Tides Day" special is the most magical thing I've ever made in my life... (including my children) (who are warlocks)...He seems to be keeping his cool right now.

[Racattack!Force]

Well, Flapjack is mentioned in the "New HHT all summer" promo, so the word is getting out.

[Jeff Harris]

I didn't want to say it because I don't want to stir up any conspiracy rumors, and part of me is regretting bringing it up.

But if Chowder does get the boot, could it be because Greenblatt did an interview in Nickelodeon Magazine which he drew the Chowder characters along with Spongebob Squarepants characters? I feel promotion anywhere is a good thing, but Cartoon Network probably didn't give him the okay to do so. If this is the reason Chowder getting scrubbed , then that is entirely stupid.

And I bet you Nickelodeon wouldn't hesitate in bringing him onboard for a new series.

[J!!!]

I bet the execs will give Flapjack a third season just because of his levelheadness.

[CottonSwab]

I didn't want to say it because I don't want to stir up any conspiracy rumors, and part of me is regretting bringing it up.

But if Chowder does get the boot, could it be because Greenblatt did an interview in Nickelodeon Magazine which he drew the Chowder characters along with Spongebob Squarepants characters? I feel promotion anywhere is a good thing, but Cartoon Network probably didn't give him the okay to do so. If this is the reason Chowder getting scrubbed , then that is entirely stupid.

And I bet you Nickelodeon wouldn't hesitate in bringing him onboard for a new series.

That would be very petty on CN's part if that's the reason behind the possible cancellation of Chowder, but CN mentioned new Chowder episodes all summer long and the new episodes airing this week have been a good sign. I guess we will have to wait and see, but I am with you about Nick picking up Chowder if thats the case as well of that reason being stupid in part of CN.

[Racattack!Force]

I didn't want to say it because I don't want to stir up any conspiracy rumors, and part of me is regretting bringing it up.

But if Chowder does get the boot, could it be because Greenblatt did an interview in Nickelodeon Magazine which he drew the Chowder characters along with Spongebob Squarepants characters? I feel promotion anywhere is a good thing, but Cartoon Network probably didn't give him the okay to do so. If this is the reason Chowder getting scrubbed , then that is entirely stupid.

And I bet you Nickelodeon wouldn't hesitate in bringing him onboard for a new series.I doubt it, since Cartoon Network picked the show up for 20 more episodes shortly after that. :shrug:

[chdr]

I didn't want to say it because I don't want to stir up any conspiracy rumors, and part of me is regretting bringing it up.

But if Chowder does get the boot, could it be because Greenblatt did an interview in Nickelodeon Magazine which he drew the Chowder characters along with Spongebob Squarepants characters? I feel promotion anywhere is a good thing, but Cartoon Network probably didn't give him the okay to do so. If this is the reason Chowder getting scrubbed , then that is entirely stupid.

And I bet you Nickelodeon wouldn't hesitate in bringing him onboard for a new series.I doubt it. There's no way CN would cancel an entire show for something as trivial as that.

[Jeff Harris]

I doubt it, since Cartoon Network picked the show up for 20 more episodes shortly after that. :shrug:


I doubt it. There's no way CN would cancel an entire show for something as trivial as that.So . . . you two cats are going to take the "Save Chowder" tag from your signatures?

[chdr]

So . . . you two cats are going to take the "Save Chowder" tag from your signatures?No, I still think that Chowder is on the verge of cancellation. I just don't think it's for that specific reason.

[Mickialla]

So . . . you two cats are going to take the "Save Chowder" tag from your signatures?

Well, there's no doubt that CN has done unjustice towards Chowder and that it needs to be "saved". But I don't think it's cancellation has anything to do with the characters' appearances in Nick magazine. Though, you know more than I do about the inside stuff, so who am I to say.

[Mesousa]

Well, Flapjack is mentioned in the "New HHT all summer" promo, so the word is getting out.

Hell, Flapjack and Chowder were mentioned more than TDA.

[lemonhead75]

Flapjack is going to be around for a while.
But if they cancel it within the next two years, I am officially starting my own television network. Now hiring. <---In two years

[strawberryjuice]

"Also, I officially hate CN"
you and everyone else on this forum.....

otherwise I stopped caring about cn a looooong time ago.

[Jay Stephens]

It would really suck that after five years in development hell Flapjack would be canned after just two years on the air. If I were on the staff I'd be like "WTF did I do all that work for, then?"

It would make me damn cynical about the cartoon business.



Yes, it is very hard to be a creative type in the animation business and not become cynical and jaded. Flapjack and Chowder are awesome, wonderful shows. I love 'em. But they simply don't fit in with the current outlook of the network, which is turning it's focus away from animated comedy (they recently let go of a bunch of great executives, all in Comedy Development, and killed all the shows they had in development) to animated action shows and live series. It sucks because it has nothing to do with the outstanding quality of Flapjack and Chowder. TV is a fickle business.

BUT... to get on CN at all is a major feat! One in a million! And a 36+ episode run of any cartoon series is pretty awesome. 5 years of development hell is absolutely normal-- we all have to go through that. The creators of those shows should be very proud of what they've accomplished. And we should be grateful somebody spent the millions of dollars it requires to bring them to life for us all to enjoy.

Time to face facts, though. CN never could beat Nick at the animated comedy game, so they've decided to stop trying.

[Racattack!Force]

But they simply don't fit in with the current outlook of the network, which is turning it's focus away from animated comedy (they recently let go of a bunch of great executives, all in Comedy Development, and killed all the shows they had in development) to animated action shows and live series. It sucks because it has nothing to do with the outstanding quality of Flapjack and Chowder.Wow, that really does suck. Well, at least Chowder was able to drum up 49 episodes and Flapjack 40 episodes.

[Mesousa]

Let's not give up yet, people. There's no official announcement on this situation.

[Silverstar]

Yes, it is very hard to be a creative type in the animation business and not become cynical and jaded. Flapjack and Chowder are awesome, wonderful shows. I love 'em. But they simply don't fit in with the current outlook of the network, which is turning it's focus away from animated comedy (they recently let go of a bunch of great executives, all in Comedy Development, and killed all the shows they had in development) to animated action shows and live series. It sucks because it has nothing to do with the outstanding quality of Flapjack and Chowder. TV is a fickle business.

BUT... to get on CN at all is a major feat! One in a million! And a 36+ episode run of any cartoon series is pretty awesome. 5 years of development hell is absolutely normal-- we all have to go through that. The creators of those shows should be very proud of what they've accomplished. And we should be grateful somebody spent the millions of dollars it requires to bring them to life for us all to enjoy.

Time to face facts, though. CN never could beat Nick at the animated comedy game, so they've decided to stop trying.

Well, it sucks that CN is basically turning their backs on comedy, partly because I had for a long time dreamed of one day having an animated comedy on Cartoon Network, but what can you do? The quest for ratings and popularity points is eternal. At least Disney and Nick are still open to comedic cartoons.

Ah well. The current CN seems to be a lost cause in that department, but I'm not entirely pessimistic; the network has changed hands several times before, and trends and goals go in and out of style. Who's to say that someday CN will once again open its' doors to the yuks? They're sure to do that once comedy becomes popular and more importantly, profitable once again.

[Jay Stephens]

I'm not entirely pessimistic; the network has changed hands several times before, and trends and goals go in and out of style. Who's to say that someday CN will once again open its' doors to the yuks? They're sure to do that once comedy becomes popular and more importantly, profitable once again.

Exactly. Executives and CEO's come and go so quickly in television the only thing you can really count on is constant change. Most of the people at CN that helped get The Secret Saturdays on the air are long gone. Who knows what tomorrow will bring?

[DeanBurrito25]

Yes, it is very hard to be a creative type in the animation business and not become cynical and jaded. Flapjack and Chowder are awesome, wonderful shows. I love 'em. But they simply don't fit in with the current outlook of the network, which is turning it's focus away from animated comedy (they recently let go of a bunch of great executives, all in Comedy Development, and killed all the shows they had in development) to animated action shows and live series. It sucks because it has nothing to do with the outstanding quality of Flapjack and Chowder. TV is a fickle business.

BUT... to get on CN at all is a major feat! One in a million! And a 36+ episode run of any cartoon series is pretty awesome. 5 years of development hell is absolutely normal-- we all have to go through that. The creators of those shows should be very proud of what they've accomplished. And we should be grateful somebody spent the millions of dollars it requires to bring them to life for us all to enjoy.

Time to face facts, though. CN never could beat Nick at the animated comedy game, so they've decided to stop trying.
Well put, Mr. Stephens. :)


Ah well. The current CN seems to be a lost cause in that department, but I'm not entirely pessimistic; the network has changed hands several times before, and trends and goals go in and out of style. Who's to say that someday CN will once again open its' doors to the yuks? They're sure to do that once comedy becomes popular and more importantly, profitable once again.
I hope you're right...

[Nexonius]

So, that means The Cartoonstitute is pretty much gone, too?

[Mickialla]

So, that means The Cartoonstitute is pretty much gone, too?

God, I hope not. That literally was the shining point that I thought would totally turn CN around.

It seems like the executives that are currently in charge have undergone a change of heart or something. As soon as they took over, they created the Cartoonstitute. Bam, a great first impression if I ever saw one. The future looked bright. They killed Fried Dynamite and my hope just grew. Then the Noods, HHT, YAH, and the success of TDI made me feel that Snyder and Sorcher were animation fans that not only knew quality animation, but knew how to make it successful. Then they picked up Adventure Time and when I saw how they were making it look, I was ecstatic.
Then late last year, things just slowly began to hit bumps. Some might say getting rid of Toonami was the first negative sign, but I personally believe any executive would've gotten rid of it due to the shape it was in. But then they announced all of those live-action pilots. Rumors began to sprout that the Cartoonstitute was no longer going to air. And now getting rid of Chowder and (possibly) Flapjack? I realize they no longer want to try to be like Nick because it hasn't worked for them, but Chowder and Flapjack WERE working. They had appeal, they got ratings. It's a good idea to stopy copying Nick, but getting rid of something that's doing good BECAUSE you think you're copying them is idiotic at the least.

[Racattack!Force]

So, that means The Cartoonstitute is pretty much gone, too?Not really. I doubt Cartoonstitute was completely comedy. Also, I'm sure they finished a large amount of pilots by now. As for the "change of heart", maybe the Cartoon Network executives aren't the problem. Maybe Time-Warner is the problem...

[Mickialla]

Not really. I doubt Cartoonstitute was completely comedy. Also, I'm sure they finished a large amount of pilots by now. As for the "change of heart", maybe the Cartoon Network executives aren't the problem. Maybe Time-Warner is the problem...

But Time-Warner has owned CN since '97, and for around the first half of their relationship with CN, more or less, the network was doing pretty good. I don't know what could've triggered them to have a change of heart, but I guess none of us will truly ever know.

[The Huntsman]

Well, it sucks that CN is basically turning their backs on comedy, partly because I had for a long time dreamed of one day having an animated comedy on Cartoon Network, but what can you do?I sincerely doubt that Cartoon Network is going to turn its back on comedies. They may be focusing more on action-adventure shows and reality shows, but comedy is a staple and it’s not going anywhere. However, I do agree that there may not be as many in-house comedies as there had been in the past, but they do have the ability to acquire shows. I don’t think anybody expected the network to acquire “The League Of Super Evil”, which is a comedy, and we know that “Pink Panther & Pals” and “Twisted Whiskers” are on their way. There will always be animated comedies on Cartoon Network. Always.

[Light Lucario]

Yes, it is very hard to be a creative type in the animation business and not become cynical and jaded. Flapjack and Chowder are awesome, wonderful shows. I love 'em. But they simply don't fit in with the current outlook of the network, which is turning it's focus away from animated comedy (they recently let go of a bunch of great executives, all in Comedy Development, and killed all the shows they had in development) to animated action shows and live series. It sucks because it has nothing to do with the outstanding quality of Flapjack and Chowder. TV is a fickle business.

BUT... to get on CN at all is a major feat! One in a million! And a 36+ episode run of any cartoon series is pretty awesome. 5 years of development hell is absolutely normal-- we all have to go through that. The creators of those shows should be very proud of what they've accomplished. And we should be grateful somebody spent the millions of dollars it requires to bring them to life for us all to enjoy.

Time to face facts, though. CN never could beat Nick at the animated comedy game, so they've decided to stop trying.

Nicely put, Mr. Stephens. Still, I don't think that CN will completely give up on comedy shows either. As The Huntsman stated, they'll probably put more focus on action-adventure shows and reality shows for the time being, but I can't see them getting rid of everything comedy on their lineup. I do hope that they'll continue Chowder and Flapjack somehow since those are two pretty well done comedy shows in my opinion. I actually think I enjoy CN's comedy shows more than or equal to to Nick's comedy shows, depending on the specific shows.

You do bring up a good point on how the process of being on CN alone is a great thing. I imagine that it takes a lot of work just to pitch the show to the network heads and even more work to continue that show for the network if they accept it. Not to mention all of the money it takes to do all of that. That's not an easy task to accomplish.

[~Shoяe]

Imo, CN defeats Nick at everything. Fact of life. The respective low points in their things would be John K's mistreatment at Nick to Greg Miller's mistreatment at CN, and I think that what Nick did to R&S is far worse.

To be honest though, I dislike this change. Clearly, since TDI and TDA are doing so well, comedy won't disappear from CN. But the fact remains that both networks are constantly putting us in "lesser of two evils" situations. The amount of live action shows they have made makes me want to boycott CN entirely, but the cost of missing shows such as Flapjack, Secret Saturdays, Adventure Time and Cartoonstitute seems to be quite high. Nick execs could be even worse than CN, they are responsible for tweencom shows and celebrity names that make me want to barf when I hear them, and their mainstay in animated comedy: SpongeBob, is aging and increasingly unoriginal, and a show that, while I enjoy, is generally overrated. However, with SpongeBob, Nick took a quirky, fresh, well drawn animated comedy, the type of show I'm sure most of us are rooting for, and turned it into a worldwide phenomenon. Without Nick, I'm not sure if animated comedy would have the same reputation it has now. The fact is that both networks consistently pull heart-wrenching crap on our favorite shows, but if we want to see those shows we have to deal with it. Its a sad fact of life, and I wish it didn't have to be that way, but it seems we're stuck with it for a while.

[macattack]

Yes, it is very hard to be a creative type in the animation business and not become cynical and jaded. Flapjack and Chowder are awesome, wonderful shows. I love 'em. But they simply don't fit in with the current outlook of the network, which is turning it's focus away from animated comedy (they recently let go of a bunch of great executives, all in Comedy Development, and killed all the shows they had in development) to animated action shows and live series. It sucks because it has nothing to do with the outstanding quality of Flapjack and Chowder. TV is a fickle business.

BUT... to get on CN at all is a major feat! One in a million! And a 36+ episode run of any cartoon series is pretty awesome. 5 years of development hell is absolutely normal-- we all have to go through that. The creators of those shows should be very proud of what they've accomplished. And we should be grateful somebody spent the millions of dollars it requires to bring them to life for us all to enjoy.

Time to face facts, though. CN never could beat Nick at the animated comedy game, so they've decided to stop trying.

Wow, they had several comedy shows in development and axed them all (and fired the executives)? I feel sad for those shows and the people attached to them. I hope they have a chance to pitch their shows elsewhere.

Considering that the average animated series often doesn't even make it past 13 episodes (and the shortest CN series tend to only get 26 episodes like Megas XLR) I know Flapjack and Chowder are luckier than many, many cartoons. Still, the quality of those two shows and their ratings prowess, to me, makes it sound like a better idea to renew them than finish them. Chowder IS CN's Spongebob, IMO, and given an opportunity to further grow I think Chowder could define CN in the upcoming decade the same way Spongebob defines Nickelodeon.

I agree that CN should stop trying to copy Nick, but that doesn't mean, to me anyway, quitting making animated comedy and simply acquiring stuff from Canada to fill the void. Not that all the stuff from Canada is bad, mind you, but I enjoy the hand-drawn animation of Flapjack and Chowder (as well as Chowder's innovative use of colors that Canadian Flash animation doesn't usually have).

I have many frustrations with Cartoon Network (the infusion of live-action, the cancellations of Naruto and One Piece, the lack of love for Foster's ending, and the increasingly likely possibilities of Chowder and Flapjack being cancelled). At the same time, their new shows such as Sym-Bionic Titan shows that somebody over there still cares for animation, if only action-animation, and that still gives me a small hope for the future of this network and that CN will still air entertaining programs for the next several years.

Thank you for replying to my comment, Jay, in such a detailed and thoughtful manner.



Well, it sucks that CN is basically turning their backs on comedy, partly because I had for a long time dreamed of one day having an animated comedy on Cartoon Network, but what can you do? The quest for ratings and popularity points is eternal. At least Disney and Nick are still open to comedic cartoons.

Ah well. The current CN seems to be a lost cause in that department, but I'm not entirely pessimistic; the network has changed hands several times before, and trends and goals go in and out of style. Who's to say that someday CN will once again open its' doors to the yuks? They're sure to do that once comedy becomes popular and more importantly, profitable once again.


I've long dreamed of having an animated action cartoon on CN one day myself, so for me the door's wide open (although I have not graduated from college yet and have only just progressed beyond stick figures in drawing, so I'm practicing my ideas by making free Internet radioplays out of them). But Jay Stephens is right when TV never stays stable. The door to comedy may be closed now but it may be open again in a few years, and the door for action cartoons may slam shut or stay open. Who can guess what the CN of 2012 could be like when the CN of 2010 will be significantly different from the CN of 2008?

EDIT: Reworded a couple of awkward sentences.

[DarthGonzo]

...and I think that what Nick did to R&S is far worse.

What Nick did to John K and R&S had to be done. What would you do if the creator of the property that you owned and were sinking money into was missing all sorts of deadlines and and was impossible to deal with? You fire him, that's what. Business is business.

[nakak]

Okay, let's keep discussions of John K's firing off this thread. They rarely go over well.